@@JanBeta Not sure, I've never seen a MSX IRL but I guess an interface similar to genlock was used. I remember all subtitles being yellow low-res pixelated text in black rectangles superimposed over the normal/VHS-res movie.
My dad was traveling Europe and happened to be in Western Germany back in 1985 , where he bought and carried back home (Greece) a Sanyo MSX MPC64. That was my Xmas gift and my first computer ever - I was 14 years old....
These old manuals are simply awesome. Today you just get warning book, like "don't eat the battery", "this device requires electricity" or "water is wet".
My school (Netherlands) had a few of these and 8020's. It was used to learn CNC programming, we made little robots from Lego Technics with motors, and if I remember correctly pneumatic parts. Was fun.
Great video. 32k ROM games have to be programmed slightly differently, the ROM file has to be cut in half (2x 16k), then reverse the order [Last 16k] - [First 16k]. Then programm it in the Eprom.
Ah, makes sense! I think not all 32k ROMs need the parts switched but some definitely do (like Konami titles, as far as I understand). Worth a try, thanks!
Yes! Finally a retro channel I follow with some MSX content. I grew up with the MSX. First we had an Tosthiba HX-10 (still have one) , then an Philips VG-8235 MSX 2 and ending with the NMS-8250. After that I switched to an 486 DX2 66, a giant leap. :p There also was the MSX Turbo-R after the MSX2+.
Nice to see you trying something a bit different. I suppose the next projects that would make sense in conjunction with this MSX would be building a RAM expansion and maybe figuring out how you could build something like a cartridge SD card reader. I have found a device that at a glance seems to do both of these things called a Fractal2000 SD Mapper/Megaram 512kB. Another thing that seems to be an option is an MSX audio expander kit which seems to be a Philips based module that adds the capability of playing FM music tracks.
Yes, I think that's the road map. Building a RAM mapper with an SD card slot would make the machine a lot more useful (especially since it only comes with 32k RAM). It seems there is a lot of audio stuff available for the MSXs, so I'm going to read up on that, too!
There is ton of audio expansions to the MSX, MSX-Audio (OPL1 based) MSX-Music (OPLL2, also known as FM-Pac), MSX-Midi, the Philips Music module (OPL1 based + ADPCM + Midi), Konami's SCC and Moonsound/MSX-Blaster (OPL4 based). And tons of tracker software that can combine them. Most of them require an MSX2 due to the 80 chars screen mode used.
The psu is exactly the same as the PSU used on the Philips VG5000. It's great that yours still works, mine is in need of a serious revision I've had to use an ATX PSU to replace it. As always a really great video Jan thanks for sharing ;)
What a coincidence, I just got this exact model of MSX a couple weeks ago! I specifically bought it because of the bizarre cursor key layout, one of the weirdest I've ever seen. Took me several months of looking before I found a seller that would ship here to Canada.
Wow, that is indeed a strange coincidence! Especially since I had this MSX sitting in its box for ages and remembered it just a couple of days ago. :D Maybe there is some kind of retro common subconscious conspiracy going on?!
Nice memories :) this was my first computer. I got it Xmas 1986 (I think) with the game "Car Jamboree". My second was the sony hb-f700d, I really loved this machine
❤ Beautiful computer! Pity I don't have similar in my collection. In my country MSX computers were not at all popular... It looks to be built very solid and high quality! Concerning Atari and Commodore I prepared some time ago quite detailed comparison... 💥💪🕹😎🤘👍👏🍻
Thanks! I think they were relatively popular here but then the Commodores and Ataris took over and ruled the market for years to come. I'm definitely going to do more MSX stuff in the future, they are lovely systems!
@@JanBeta They are indeed and they have some awsome case designs and superb games like "Snatcher" or "Metal Gear".. Many variations of them were only sold in Japan. Really worth exploring. I am looking forward to you next MSX episodes..
37:40 I did see that coming LOL! I replaced one of my joystick connectors with exactly the same db9 connector and ran into the same problem. Nice that the MSX gets some attention, it's a nice platform with many great games!
Yes! The MSX is great. No idea why I didn't try one before. The joystick connector problem was just due to my lack of patience (and test fitting things before putting them together) I guess. As usual. :D
@@JanBetaprobably because you haven't come across MSX computers in your youth. For me it was all around me, friends had one, school had one, shops had them on display, multiple msx computer clubs were nearby, magazines about msx computers, elektor with msx projects etc. I since sold my childhood msx1 and 2, but after 10 to 15 years I picked up a fair few msx and c64 computers for a couple of euros and still have them and keep them in running condition. I used to own a vg8020, and the keyboard and cursor keys were definitely better. But the nms8235 and 45 had a better keyboard still. These two I now have, and the nms8250, and a couple of msx1 computers (toshiba and canon). Upgraded the nms8250 with a 1MB simm module and gotek drive. It can run many floppy drive converted rom games but it's more convenient to have a cartridge like carnivore 2 that you can instantly flash with a rom selected from a sd card. The nice thing is, unlike the C64 it contains many chips that are still available with the exception of the msx engine and vdp, though aliexpress still has some stock. Floppy controllers and the ay8910 are also available on alie, and ym2413 (synth chip in fmpac) too. Only chip becoming rare is the scc, not that it fails a lot but it has become a collectors item collecting konami rom cartridges carrying this synth chip and getting quite expensive (100+ euros, a lot more than they used to cost new). There are emulator boards and fpga implementations though just like the sid chip. I'm looking forward to your msx explorations!
I got a couple MSX computers, I fell in love after I got my first one, a basic 32K model MSX1 from Goldstar, which lead me to grab a 64K MSX1 from Yashica. I wanna try an get some more at some point, especially the MSX2 system, there are some really beautiful looking ones out there (such as Sony or Yamaha models). It's a pleasure to see them pop up on a good retro channel, they don't seem to get as much love in the retro community as things like the C64 and other retro machines, that or I haven't been looking in the right place. (I guess the fact there are so many different ones instead of clear models like an Amstrad CPC6128 always being a CPC6128 even when from different regions makes it harder to get into them?)
DUDE! Thank you so much for not banging on about the box for ages before getting the machine out, like SO MANY other tubers do! I couldn't care less about the boxes things come in... _I am not a cat, I am (mostly) human!_
Haha, yeah. I'm not a huge fan of "unboxing" videos. The box is quite interesting for this one though, maybe I'll post some photos of it somewhere eventually. :D
@@JanBeta Now, if there's something genuinely interesting about the box, then that is fine and should probably get a mention - but for what it is worth, _this_ random -cat- human appreciates your priorities sir!
So few English speaking youtubers have explored the MSX computers! I learned programming with it back when I was 7. It has a relatively good version of BASIC and it supports so much great software. Best games used to come from Spain or Japan!
MSX machines were very popular in the Arab world because of their support of Arabic keyboard in cooperation with Al-Alamiah company, The most popular version was Sakhr AX-170 which is an MSX1/64K ram, MSX Basic was more advanced than some of other versions of Basic in that era, I hope you do more videos on it, Thanks
Oh, I genuinely didn't know they were successful in the Arab world! Thanks for pointing that out, the Arabic countries seem to be a bit of a historic "blind spot" from the European perspective which is a huge shame. I'm going to see if I can find more info about those MSXs.
Can I just say Jan, it's very odd to see you do a video where the main focus doesn't come to you looking like water damaged cheese! Nice to see more MSX stuff though, I'm just getting the correct cables for my HX-10 and very excited to delve into the unknown! 10/10 vidya!
About the caps in the PSU, please replace also the silver one. Different packaging doesn't mean they can't leak:) As my father in law (whole life in professional tv equipment repairmen) keeps telling me, with older equipment it is better to replace the caps before the first start after many years. There have been cases of electrolyte spitting during the first start:) Also, the video quality might be rather improved by replacing the caps inside the computer itself, but usually you cannot get superb sharpness out of composite. But I've looked up the schematic, there are YPbPr signals inside, so there is hope for better video through component video:)
Yes, that’s the plan. I already have a capacitor for the PSU on order, looking at recapping the MSX next. And maybe figure out a way to improve the video out (although I kind of like the original fuzziness for nostalgic reasons). :D
The other MSX machines from Philips had more memory and decent keyboards, but this one is much rare.. I have one too in my collection, because of the fact they are rare..
Yeah, I guess these were not very well loved. Maybe they weren't in production for a long time. There seem to be a couple on ebay currently but not in great condition. No idea how rare they really are.
They are interesting indeed! I wonder why they didn't sell in America (they probably tried to market them there at some point, especially since Microsoft was involved).
@@JanBeta I think the Japanese market was rather insulated since all the companies were Japanese, and the Japanese language itself was a barrier. The Japanese market was tough to get into from the outside in the 80s, and vice versa. Japanese cars had been picking up steam, but in the 80s really took off.
Its possible that the power supply is a design carried over from an older product by Phillips. I recall that in the late 70s it was rare to find radial form electrolytics in electronics catalogues in the UK, and when you did they were usually the large power capacitors, or much more expensive than the axial ones. This was certainly generally true in Europe compared to the USA going into the 80s, the US computers seem to feature radial caps more than the ones from the UK, so perhaps Phillips designed the board to take whatever capacitors they could get depending on where they were assembled.
Ah, that would be an explanation. I've seen lots of devices from the era that had footprints for both axial and radial caps before (including the older revision C64 boards) but I've not seen axial caps used in radial positions before.
When there's enough room, I would just replace the axial cap with a radial one standing up, just spread the legs and call it a day. I think the two cap combo could be replaced with a single film cap, you can get high capacity film caps today.
Yes, it's kind of peculiar that they made a special French version! It even has an AZERTY keyboard layout as far as I read. Didn't see one in person yet though. :D
When programing EPROMs in the future: There are some EPROMs that dont like light shining on their window when you program them. So put a sticker or your finger when programming.
Oh, interesting! Didn't know that at all but it kind of makes sense. They are excellent machines to learn programming on I guess. And probably one of the less expensive solutions at the time, too!
There was literally only a machine or two that were of the Turbo R standard though right? And no commercial software for it? Even the 2+ is just a handful of machines and a handful of titles? However, Jan must get an MSX2, as it's leaps and bounds better than the standard MSX
@@stephenpalmer9375 There are actually quite a lot 2+ software releases, mostly shooters and scrollers. Turbo R are indeed only 2 machines from Panasonic, but the were pretty populair as the 'ultimate' MSX. Not many games for it specifically, since it had the same 2+ vdp, but it had a faster CPU and PCM audio added. MSX2 is indeed the mainstream sweetspot, but you at least want to add MSX-Music /FM-PAC/FM-PAK to that. Also note that a 2+ came with MSX-Music, KUN-Basic(compiler-based) and sometimes a Turbo CPU option too out of the box. All can be used in a MSX2 too, I have a Sony HB900P upgraded to 2+, 7MHz CPU, 1 MB RAM, 192kb VRAM, SRGB mod and lots of other small tweaks.
@@skillaxxx interesting! I’m a fairly new convert to MSX (never saw them at the time), so clearly I don’t know enough about the later two models. I’d love to find a 2+ somewhere .. I have a modern version of Sonic that is crying out to be played lol (I bought it in error).
Also.. the two cartridge slots.. some Konami carts (and they really supported the platform) unlock extra content if you have two of their games in each slot!
MSX, the first time i saw one was in a computer store where they showed of pictures of fruit and a parrot and back in the day that was mindblowing. A friend om mine got a MSX from his mother, because she didnt want to buy him a C64 otherwise he would only play video games instead of learing coding and how computer worked. He was so bummed out :)
Yamaha made several models of MSX computer with very interesting music add ons. I think they were hoping to target schools with them, but the Atari ST arrived around the same time and dominated the music making market.
Yeah, it was an extremely good idea to put MIDI ports into the ST. They were used for all kinds of production work for ages. Interesting that Yamaha wanted to tap into that market with the MSX. I'm going to have to read up on that!
@@JanBeta The Yamaha MSX machine was the CX5M, which had an eight voice polyphonic synthesiser built in. I think it was a four operator FM synthesiser, which would have made it similar to Yamaha's middle of the range professional equipment of the same era.
Maybe a graphics designer made that decision, I would guess. I mean, it looks very nice but is completely unusable. Definitely there was no (good) engineer involved in that design choice. :D
Why is it called a joystick? It comes from WWII fighters like the Hurricane and Spitfire where the stick that controlled the aircraft and fired the cannons came up between the pilot's legs. Similar to the pilot's own joystick but perhaps even more fun.
Nice Jan, the philips msx were the first computers in the primairy schools in the Netherlands arround 1986 philips had a special deal with the goverment. So alot of parents bought a msx but the most cool games (pirate games) were on de C64. The most cool was the upright tape unit. that was also slow. the pitate games on fast load on the c64 were also faster.
Great to hear the MSXs were used in schools over there! Makes sense that Philips struck a deal with the government back then. And they are definitely great systems to learn programming on etc! I am going to try to make a cassette recorder cable soon to try out the tape loading on the MSX. :)
The MSX computers were very interesting. It should have been backed by all home computer makers. Should all have produced a compatible machine. They could each have added their own upgrades as long as there was a base level compatibility. This was the right way to go. Far cheaper than the IBM PC clones.
Yes, it was a great idea and could easily have been the future. For some strange reason the IBM compatibles won the market. Probably because they were even more modular in the end. But I guess the MSX architecture could have been expanded even further.
@@JanBeta That whole branch of the evolutionary tree died. The Z80 with CP/M could have been where we are now instead of x86. I know it lived on for a while in hand held games and embedded systems.
I was born in 1990s and as far as i can tell some computers back in 1980's were kind of toy/computer hybrid than a full fledge computing machine,because of their poor keyboard type,build quality and IC reliability issues.And to be honest, i think companies were not to blame,manufacturing costs were high and there was highly demands for home PC's.Professionals needed to use high end computers that came with a five digit price tag.Todays oridinary computers beat those "high end" computers.😂
Have that same MSX. Yes its not very compatible and mine doesnt have a power supply and is in a kind of a sad shape. havent tested it yet but maybe someday, might work nothing broken except the cartridge flap but oh its dirty :)
I got a bit addicted to buying MSX models from Japan for a bit. On the whole, they have always been in lovely condition - except where people seem to have used them to stub out cigarettes!
i have a question i hope you can help there is a website selling the new msx computer and it has every single msx software built in do you think its worth buying
Oh, I can't really answer that I'm afraid. I'm completely new to the MSX world at this point. It sounds like a neat idea but it depends on what you want, I guess. I'd always opt for the retro route as in getting the original machines from back in the day and some extension that allows you to access modern media (there's some excellent SD cartridges that also act as RAM expansions for the MSX as far as I know).
Philips made one of the most reliable capacitors of all brands. Why do you think the psu was still working? They don’t need replacing, nothing you can buy now a days won’t come close to the philips LL capacitors.
@@jaycee1980 that is a rule of thumb, but not necessary true. That counts for under what conditions they have worked and the main factor is temperature. As a profession I am a restorer of vintage audio equipment and the health of a capacitor can measured. And I measure the health of capacitors all the time. And my conclusion with the philips capacitors is when I measure there health after a reforming proces there esr leakage get to a value like straight out of the box like they are new. And I was hesitant of using the old caps but I thought they measure good. So I did some trails and mounted them in insignificant equipment like a simple radio a power supply for a clock etc etc. And did these experiments more than 20 years ago and the radio and the clock are working every day till this day without any problems. Keep in mind that only counts for the Philips caps (elko’s) especially the LL series and the old nut lock and twist lock series. The even older types with pressure relieve valves on top do give problems but with your work you will never come across those they are pre pc times. Philips film capacitors (the orange one on that pcb) previous series where mustard color or had a color code also known as tropical fish these are among the most reliable film capacitors in existence. You do have to be careful with Philips carbon resistors there where series that had lose end caps and they develop cracks in there coating and can give one of the most difficult the find faults. Good luck with your channel and I completely understand why you would replace the caps. Because it is the right thing to do. Happy holidays!
I have one of those Quickshots with the CPC switch. Most of my joysticks are Commodore standard though, so I don't really have much use for a CPC adapter. I might look into making a Sega-MSX adapter eventually, there's some good designs for that available. :)
Nice, sadly that type of MSX computer has not the best keyboard (shame on you Philips), but I have good memories of it. Especially the MSX 2. Too bad I sold everything.
Yeah, the keyboard looks nice but doesn’t work very well. Probably they favored form over function for this model. :D The MSX is a super interesting platform, definitely not the last video on this channel about it!
there are a couple of Casio MSX that have a similar approach to the keyboard, which are hopeless.. but at least they took the chunkier and more obvious approach to the arrow keys.
I think that is probably flux residue. It was visible around all the drilled holes in the PCB. Most likely the solder bath this went through had flux in it and they didn't clean the PCB after it went through that. All caps actually looked intact without any signs of bulging/corrosion/leakage.
I think these particular ones were not very loved (for the lack of RAM and the strange keyboard) but the later Philips models were pretty common over here.
That diagram must have some inaccuracies, as I used to use my Master System, AND Mega Drive controllers on my Amiga 500 and Amiga 1200 all the time, with Zero issues.... Often used the Amiga Joysticks on my Megadrive too, without issue!! This table says it shouldn't work...
The diagram is correct (as far as I can see). The Sega pads work to some extend on other systems but they are sometimes shorting out pins on the ICs in the systems etc, so it's not recommended using those without an adapter as you might damage the computer in the long run (although they do work for the most part). See here, for example: eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=907587&postcount=8
@@JanBeta I used them for a good 10 or so years without problems or issues to any of the systems, they were even passed on to family, then eventually sold-on... (talking over 20 years ago now) :D I even used the the "Cheetah Bug" joystick with my MasterSystem, and the Autofire worked... so, I don't know what to say! Also, that thread also seems to odd, or some info missing somewhere, as all buttons worked on the Sega Megadrive pad w/Amiga - was great for playing MortalKombat...
Ooops, sorry, something must have gone wrong while I copied+pasted the links. I just fixed them (I think) and they should work now. Thanks for pointing that out!
Oh, there's going to be more amplifier restorations sometime. I just focused more on vintage computers for a while because I'm more interested in those at the moment. The audio equipment restorations are always fun but I don't do them very frequently currently.
For why MSX wasn't successful in US, there are couple of main reasons. It was late in the game, there were already Commodore, Apple and Atari machines in the market from american companies. Also, US computer users were already heavily floppies and MSX1 disk drive support was shoddy to say the least. And when MSX2 came out, PC clone market was already in full swing and 16-bit micros were being pushed to market (ST, Amiga). So, it is mostly about timing and about the capabilities system offered at the time.
In that time and era some high quality joysticks had a switch at the bottom, A for Atari / Commodore etc. and B for MSX. I remember specifically that black model you have over there (Made by S.T.C. in Rotterdam) had such a switch. That joystick had real microswitches in it, therefore it was guaranteed to work till there was not one single alien aircraft still around! Normally the alien invaders keep on sending new ships to Earth, but when they hear the real microswitches click eventually they give up and Earth is safe again. Most other joysticks did not have real switches but pieces of foil rubbing to each other, with that kind of joystick you lose always at the end. And then the aliens will overtake Earth and place some lizard people politicians here. The result is a staggering inflation and a World Wide War on food manufacturers like farmers. Now the aliens / lizard people made the prices on fuel go up, we are going to have a cold winter, and this would not have happened if computer owners bought the right joysticks with real microswitches.
I remember owning a joystick that was switchable to the CPC pinout but I didn't see one for the MSX back in the day. Probably they were available here as well as the MSX was quite popular in Germany. Microswitches are indeed the best way to defeat those invaders! :D
Ah, the switching PSUs are usually pretty reliable in my experience (in that they won't put out overvoltage in case they break, they will just short out and die in a bang). At least they usually don't harm anything connected to them. A modern power supply would of course be the more reliable option, especially since I only need standard voltages for this MSX.
@@JanBeta I didn't think about the Reliability of the PSU at all, I was just thinking about the Safety for the Device connected to it as well as Ripple. Might be an interesting endeavor to measure ripple and compare it to a modern (good quality) one. modern ATX PSU have next to no ripple. 20mV is considered bad... But they have a bit too high current (15-20A on 5V)...
You mean the recapping? The original caps are nearly 40 years old now and are not going to be very reliable. I know there's "opinions" about the aging of capacitors but if you ask any proper electronics engineer, they will tell you that electrolytic capacitors have a limited lifespan and it makes sense to replace old ones with good brand new ones.
Oh, danke, Deutsch ist sehr viel komplizierter als Englisch. Vermutlich ist mein Englisch besser als mein Deutsch (und beides ist nicht fehlerfrei). :D
Thanks for the great and entertaining video, Jan:) Always good to learn something new, like: It's hard to believe that Phillips is also capable of something clever...besides Christmas tree lighting! (I am joking!). Now to the usual Interweb stuff, sorry ... can't resist ... or else another mad electric-girl does it. Some trivia on shielding: Usually in cable connections we put the shielding only on one side at GND-level. Otherwise you create a wonderful antenna, the opposite of shielding;) The reason for this is that normal wires have a current flow. Because they also have a resistance there is always a potential difference between side A and B of the cable. This potential difference alone causes electromagnetic interference between the cable cores, also known as cross-talk. Since the shielding of the cable is only at a defined potential at one end, there can be no current flow at all. On the contrary, cross-induced magnetic fields are dampened and electromagnetic influences from outside the cable are diverted to the shielded potential. Putting the shielding net of the cable on both sides at a voltage potential like ground is like shooting yourself into the foot. You circumvent the shielding function and made it worse by building an antenna that puts EMI into your electronic system. Normalerweise werden Steckverbindungen, bzw. Niederspannungs- und Datenverbindungen (in z.B. Industrieumgebungen sehr wichtig!) ab einer gewissen Länge immer abgeschirmt. Der Schirm wird dabei einseitig auf ein Potential gelegt. Legt man beide Seiten dieses Leitungsschirms auf das gleiche(Achtung! dort liegt das Problem) Potential an örtlich getrennten Orten, hat man damit das Gegenteil bewirkt und eine Antenne gefertigt, die fröhlich Störungen in die verbundene Schaltung einspeist. Räumlich getrennte Orte haben zwangsläufig ein unterschiedliches Potential (z.B. zwischen zwei 0V Verbindungen), wenn ein Strom fließt. Und ein Strom fließt natürlich ... sonst bräuchten wir ja keine Verbindung, wenn wir keine Signale übertragen wollten. Und natürlich bevorzugt über den sehr niederohmigen Schirm . (Um hier gleich den Fallstrick zu benennen: Je kleiner der Strom, also je spannungsgebundener die Auswertung der Übertragungstechnologie ist, desto anfälliger sind auch die Störeinflüsse!!! Vergleiche RS232 versus RS485). Alleine schon diese Potentialdifferenz bedingt im Normalbetrieb eine elektromagnetische Störung zwischen den Leitungsadern, auch cross-talk oder Übersprechen genannt. Da die Schirmung der Leitung nur auf einem Ende auf definiertem Potential liegt, kann es gar nicht zu einem Stromfluss kommen. Im Gegenteil, quer-induzierte Magnetfelder werden gedämpft und elektromagnetische Einflüsse von außerhalb der Leitung werden zum aller größten Teil auf das Potential abgeleitet auf dem der Schirm liegt. Andere Sichtweise: Der Schirm als durchgehender und benutzter Leiter. Der vollkommen die Datenleitungen ummantelt. An was erinnert das? Richtig! An einen Transformator, was es auch ist! Mit einer Seite nicht angeschlossen fällt das komplett weg. Ist eigentlich sehr schlau, wenn du dir das überlegst. Muss ein "Käpselle" gewesen sein, dem das eingefallen ist. Ich vermute einen dieser alten und rauhen Ingenieure beim Bau der ersten Telegraphen:) Falls das nicht als Erklärung, bzw. als Ansporn reicht?: In der Ausbildung gab es eine ordentliche Schelle vom Meister, wenn man den Schirm doppelt aufgelegt hat:))) Danke noch mal für deine tollen Videos und ich wünsche dir schöne Feiertage, Jan!:)
Thanks for pointing that shielding issue out. As far as I know it depends on the application but generally you are correct. I come from an audio engineering background and there are both schools there (most of the times, ground is connected on both ends, sometimes it has to be "lifted" because it introduces more noise). Philips only makes medical and specialized equipment these days as far as I know, most Philips branded devices are manufactured by someone else now. They made some excellent stuff during the 70s and 80s, I'm a bit of a fanboy of their measuring equipment (the oscilloscopes are awesome!) and their TVs. :)
@@JanBeta Didn't know that you had an Audio engineering background. Cool Jan:) In this field, we certainly share the experience of ground loops or very questionable cascading voltages up to the musician (where else does David Bowie's hairstyle come from?) up to the "tickling" area. As a Death-Metal guitarist and electronics engineer (power supplies... what you're doing, you're doing wrong!) I know the problem all too well. It's a different disease than the one with the shielding, though. But it literally comes via the same route of infection, hehe :) I also grew up with Philips which I thought was German (how stupid... "Koninklijke Philips N.V." CARAVAN-DRIVERS!), but in the 1970s I was more into drinking milk and learning to walk than electronics:) Just now, because you reminded me, I picked out my "Philips Autoreverse Walkman"... a real gem:) And let's not forget NXP Semiconductors and a lot of other great stuff besides lightbulbs that this company gave us! Including the wonderful analog oscis you mentioned and other industrial grade measuring devices. Screws? That would be too much adulation! Hehehe. Actually, I'm a Siemens girl. Raised there, tested, shocked, measured and grown up. But this is another story. Celebrate beautifully and enjoy the tropical Christmas! :) Auf diesem Fachgebiet teilen wir sicherlich die Erfahrung der Brummschleifen oder sehr bedenklicher sich kaskadierender Spannungen bis zum ahnungslosen Musiker (wo sonst kommt die Frisur von David Bowie her?) bis in den "kitzelnden" Bereich. Ich als Todesmetall-Gitarristin und Elektronikerin (Batterien durch Netzgeräte ersetzen ... toller Gedanke! ... was du machst, machst du falsch!) kenne das Problem nur zu gut. Ist allerdings eine andere Krankheit als das mit der Abschirmung. Kommt aber sprichwörtlich über den selben Infektionsweg, hehe:) Ich bin auch mit Philips aufgewachsen die ich für Deutsch hielt(wie blöd ... "Koninklijke Philips N.V." WOHNWAGENFAHRER!:P), in den 1970ern war ich aber mehr mit Milch trinken und laufen lernen als mit Elektronik beschäftigt:) Ich hab jetzt gerade, weil du mich daran erinnert hast meinen "Philips Autoreverse Walkman" herausgesucht ... ein wares Kleinod:) Und vergessen wir nicht NXP Semiconductors und viele andere tolle Sachen außer Glühlampen, die uns diese Firma beschert hat! Einschließlich der wunderbaren analogen Oszis, die du erwähnt hast, und natürlich andere wunderbare Messgeräte in Industriequalität. Schrauben? Das wäre zu viel Lobhudelei! Eigentlich bin ich ja ein Siemens-Mädchen. Dort aufgewachsen, geprüft, geschockt, durchgemessen und groß geworden. Aber das ist eine andere Geschichte. Feiert schön und genießt die tropische Weihnacht!:)
I know! I was talking more about the general architecture (which is the same for all 6502 variants, most only added some I/O ports or changed the pinout slightly).
Back in the day in ex-Yugoslavia, pretty much all VHS movies in video clubs were subtitled on MSX.
I wonder if any of them were ex-KUBT project computers?
Oh, nice! Do you know if there was a kind of genlock interface for it to streamline the process?
@@JanBeta Not sure, I've never seen a MSX IRL but I guess an interface similar to genlock was used. I remember all subtitles being yellow low-res pixelated text in black rectangles superimposed over the normal/VHS-res movie.
@@JanBeta Apparently machines like the Philips NMS 8280 had video overlay as a standard feature.
My dad was traveling Europe and happened to be in Western Germany back in 1985 , where he bought and carried back home (Greece) a Sanyo MSX MPC64. That was my Xmas gift and my first computer ever - I was 14 years old....
These old manuals are simply awesome. Today you just get warning book, like "don't eat the battery", "this device requires electricity" or "water is wet".
Yeah, at best you get a download link for some pdf these days (mostly with similar instructions to the stuff you mentioned). 😅
🤣😂
My school (Netherlands) had a few of these and 8020's. It was used to learn CNC programming, we made little robots from Lego Technics with motors, and if I remember correctly pneumatic parts. Was fun.
Nice! I didn't know the MSXs were used in schools but it makes perfect sense, Philips being a Dutch company and all! :D
Great video.
32k ROM games have to be programmed slightly differently,
the ROM file has to be cut in half (2x 16k), then reverse the order [Last 16k] - [First 16k]. Then programm it in the Eprom.
Ah, makes sense! I think not all 32k ROMs need the parts switched but some definitely do (like Konami titles, as far as I understand). Worth a try, thanks!
Yes! Finally a retro channel I follow with some MSX content. I grew up with the MSX. First we had an Tosthiba HX-10 (still have one) , then an Philips VG-8235 MSX 2 and ending with the NMS-8250. After that I switched to an 486 DX2 66, a giant leap. :p There also was the MSX Turbo-R after the MSX2+.
Nice! I'm definitely going to do more MSX content in the future. I have a HitBit and an MSX2 sitting here, too, waiting to get some TLC. :)
Nice to see you trying something a bit different. I suppose the next projects that would make sense in conjunction with this MSX would be building a RAM expansion and maybe figuring out how you could build something like a cartridge SD card reader. I have found a device that at a glance seems to do both of these things called a Fractal2000 SD Mapper/Megaram 512kB. Another thing that seems to be an option is an MSX audio expander kit which seems to be a Philips based module that adds the capability of playing FM music tracks.
Yes, I think that's the road map. Building a RAM mapper with an SD card slot would make the machine a lot more useful (especially since it only comes with 32k RAM). It seems there is a lot of audio stuff available for the MSXs, so I'm going to read up on that, too!
There is ton of audio expansions to the MSX, MSX-Audio (OPL1 based) MSX-Music (OPLL2, also known as FM-Pac), MSX-Midi, the Philips Music module (OPL1 based + ADPCM + Midi), Konami's SCC and Moonsound/MSX-Blaster (OPL4 based). And tons of tracker software that can combine them. Most of them require an MSX2 due to the 80 chars screen mode used.
6:04 - 1980's hardware manuals were the best.
Yes! They were excellent back in the day. Especially if they included schematics and pinouts. ;)
In Brazil MSX had some popularity. "Gradiente" was the most popular brand, with its "Expert MSX".
Nice! Didn't know they were also popular over there! I'll read up on those systems!
The psu is exactly the same as the PSU used on the Philips VG5000. It's great that yours still works, mine is in need of a serious revision I've had to use an ATX PSU to replace it. As always a really great video Jan thanks for sharing ;)
By the look of it, a Meanwell RPT-60B would fit into the original box quite nicely
Yes, I think that should fit fine.
Thanks! Yeah, the PSU seems to have been used on a number of different Philips devices. Pretty smart of them. :)
What a coincidence, I just got this exact model of MSX a couple weeks ago! I specifically bought it because of the bizarre cursor key layout, one of the weirdest I've ever seen. Took me several months of looking before I found a seller that would ship here to Canada.
Wow, that is indeed a strange coincidence! Especially since I had this MSX sitting in its box for ages and remembered it just a couple of days ago. :D Maybe there is some kind of retro common subconscious conspiracy going on?!
that was my first msx. I loved it. Later I got a MSX2, the philips 8220. Bought imported cartridges to play games
Ollie is awesome! And so are you Jan
Thank you (also on Ollie's behalf)! ;)
I have a VG8020 which I consider one of the nicest looking 8 bit micro ever!
The design is beautiful indeed! Pity about the 8010 keyboard but it still looks awesome.:D
Nice memories :) this was my first computer. I got it Xmas 1986 (I think) with the game "Car Jamboree". My second was the sony hb-f700d, I really loved this machine
❤ Beautiful computer! Pity I don't have similar in my collection. In my country MSX computers were not at all popular... It looks to be built very solid and high quality! Concerning Atari and Commodore I prepared some time ago quite detailed comparison... 💥💪🕹😎🤘👍👏🍻
It can be done. I got my MSX2 from Japan, and my Turbo-R from Spain.
It is beautiful indeed! I love the fact that there are so many MSX variants. Another rabbit hole to follow. :D
Great video, Jan! The MSX is a great system, often overlooked in Germany.
Thanks! I think they were relatively popular here but then the Commodores and Ataris took over and ruled the market for years to come. I'm definitely going to do more MSX stuff in the future, they are lovely systems!
@@JanBeta They are indeed and they have some awsome case designs and superb games like "Snatcher" or "Metal Gear".. Many variations of them were only sold in Japan. Really worth exploring. I am looking forward to you next MSX episodes..
“No Touchie…TOUCHIE” lolololol. I just spit my coffee everywhere again. I love when you do that
Happy to see that someone shares my weird sense of humor... :D
@@JanBeta, we are one in the same. We are awesome
37:40 I did see that coming LOL! I replaced one of my joystick connectors with exactly the same db9 connector and ran into the same problem. Nice that the MSX gets some attention, it's a nice platform with many great games!
Yes! The MSX is great. No idea why I didn't try one before. The joystick connector problem was just due to my lack of patience (and test fitting things before putting them together) I guess. As usual. :D
@@JanBetaprobably because you haven't come across MSX computers in your youth. For me it was all around me, friends had one, school had one, shops had them on display, multiple msx computer clubs were nearby, magazines about msx computers, elektor with msx projects etc.
I since sold my childhood msx1 and 2, but after 10 to 15 years I picked up a fair few msx and c64 computers for a couple of euros and still have them and keep them in running condition. I used to own a vg8020, and the keyboard and cursor keys were definitely better. But the nms8235 and 45 had a better keyboard still. These two I now have, and the nms8250, and a couple of msx1 computers (toshiba and canon). Upgraded the nms8250 with a 1MB simm module and gotek drive. It can run many floppy drive converted rom games but it's more convenient to have a cartridge like carnivore 2 that you can instantly flash with a rom selected from a sd card.
The nice thing is, unlike the C64 it contains many chips that are still available with the exception of the msx engine and vdp, though aliexpress still has some stock. Floppy controllers and the ay8910 are also available on alie, and ym2413 (synth chip in fmpac) too. Only chip becoming rare is the scc, not that it fails a lot but it has become a collectors item collecting konami rom cartridges carrying this synth chip and getting quite expensive (100+ euros, a lot more than they used to cost new). There are emulator boards and fpga implementations though just like the sid chip.
I'm looking forward to your msx explorations!
I got a couple MSX computers, I fell in love after I got my first one, a basic 32K model MSX1 from Goldstar, which lead me to grab a 64K MSX1 from Yashica. I wanna try an get some more at some point, especially the MSX2 system, there are some really beautiful looking ones out there (such as Sony or Yamaha models). It's a pleasure to see them pop up on a good retro channel, they don't seem to get as much love in the retro community as things like the C64 and other retro machines, that or I haven't been looking in the right place. (I guess the fact there are so many different ones instead of clear models like an Amstrad CPC6128 always being a CPC6128 even when from different regions makes it harder to get into them?)
If PCBWay is the sponsor of the video, they could have provided a PCB with gold palted contacts for the cartridge ;-)
Unfortunately the PCB is not open source (at least I didn't find any gerbers) so I had to go with the one Ollie sent me. ;)
This weekend's rabbit hole. Thanks !
Haha, hope you enjoy! :)
DUDE! Thank you so much for not banging on about the box for ages before getting the machine out, like SO MANY other tubers do! I couldn't care less about the boxes things come in... _I am not a cat, I am (mostly) human!_
Haha, yeah. I'm not a huge fan of "unboxing" videos. The box is quite interesting for this one though, maybe I'll post some photos of it somewhere eventually. :D
@@JanBeta Now, if there's something genuinely interesting about the box, then that is fine and should probably get a mention - but for what it is worth, _this_ random -cat- human appreciates your priorities sir!
So few English speaking youtubers have explored the MSX computers! I learned programming with it back when I was 7. It has a relatively good version of BASIC and it supports so much great software. Best games used to come from Spain or Japan!
They are often overlooked I think. But they are super interesting indeed. More MSX content coming soon! ;)
Oh, I remember the Philips MSX machines. I always liked the case design as a kid since it was much more modern than the C64.
Yes, the design is excellent (except for the arrow keys placement maybe)! :D
MSX machines were very popular in the Arab world because of their support of Arabic keyboard in cooperation with Al-Alamiah company,
The most popular version was Sakhr AX-170 which is an MSX1/64K ram,
MSX Basic was more advanced than some of other versions of Basic in that era,
I hope you do more videos on it,
Thanks
Oh, I genuinely didn't know they were successful in the Arab world! Thanks for pointing that out, the Arabic countries seem to be a bit of a historic "blind spot" from the European perspective which is a huge shame. I'm going to see if I can find more info about those MSXs.
@@JanBeta The media played its part I think,
I'll be great if you can find one of them (recently Egypt was a good source)
Can I just say Jan, it's very odd to see you do a video where the main focus doesn't come to you looking like water damaged cheese! Nice to see more MSX stuff though, I'm just getting the correct cables for my HX-10 and very excited to delve into the unknown! 10/10 vidya!
I still have one of those. It had an annoyingly low amount of available RAM. As a kid I couldn't play a lot of games available on it ;)
Cool computer. The YT channels I watch (including this one) don't normally cover the MSX so it was a nice change of pace.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed. More MSX tinkering coming eventually. :)
There was an even earlier version which had a red case and a built in joystick in the case.
About the caps in the PSU, please replace also the silver one. Different packaging doesn't mean they can't leak:) As my father in law (whole life in professional tv equipment repairmen) keeps telling me, with older equipment it is better to replace the caps before the first start after many years. There have been cases of electrolyte spitting during the first start:) Also, the video quality might be rather improved by replacing the caps inside the computer itself, but usually you cannot get superb sharpness out of composite. But I've looked up the schematic, there are YPbPr signals inside, so there is hope for better video through component video:)
Yes, that’s the plan. I already have a capacitor for the PSU on order, looking at recapping the MSX next. And maybe figure out a way to improve the video out (although I kind of like the original fuzziness for nostalgic reasons). :D
The other MSX machines from Philips had more memory and decent keyboards, but this one is much rare.. I have one too in my collection, because of the fact they are rare..
Yeah, I guess these were not very well loved. Maybe they weren't in production for a long time. There seem to be a couple on ebay currently but not in great condition. No idea how rare they really are.
I had a Toshiba HX - 10 MSX Computer .
As something we didn't get here in America, and especially because it's from Japan, I'm obsessed with learning about the msx
They are interesting indeed! I wonder why they didn't sell in America (they probably tried to market them there at some point, especially since Microsoft was involved).
@@JanBeta I think the Japanese market was rather insulated since all the companies were Japanese, and the Japanese language itself was a barrier. The Japanese market was tough to get into from the outside in the 80s, and vice versa. Japanese cars had been picking up steam, but in the 80s really took off.
Its possible that the power supply is a design carried over from an older product by Phillips. I recall that in the late 70s it was rare to find radial form electrolytics in electronics catalogues in the UK, and when you did they were usually the large power capacitors, or much more expensive than the axial ones. This was certainly generally true in Europe compared to the USA going into the 80s, the US computers seem to feature radial caps more than the ones from the UK, so perhaps Phillips designed the board to take whatever capacitors they could get depending on where they were assembled.
Ah, that would be an explanation. I've seen lots of devices from the era that had footprints for both axial and radial caps before (including the older revision C64 boards) but I've not seen axial caps used in radial positions before.
yeah, I'd replace the mains filter cap if possible. it's absolutely ancient. 400v 22uF will be just fine for that application.
Yup, I have one on order already.
Great Video! My first computer was a MSX Gradiente Expert, a pretty well built machine :)
Thanks! I love the fact that there are so many variants of the MSXs around. A rabbit hole I definitely want to explore a bit in the future. :D
When there's enough room, I would just replace the axial cap with a radial one standing up, just spread the legs and call it a day.
I think the two cap combo could be replaced with a single film cap, you can get high capacity film caps today.
Yep, makes sense.
You know you're watching a German TH-camr, when he uses Wärmeleitpaste as thermal compound! :)
sketchy practice !!
Indeed! "Wärmeleitpaste" is an incredibly German word, too. :D
i like the "rgb french only" in the manual.
Yes, it's kind of peculiar that they made a special French version! It even has an AZERTY keyboard layout as far as I read. Didn't see one in person yet though. :D
When programing EPROMs in the future: There are some EPROMs that dont like light shining on their window when you program them. So put a sticker or your finger when programming.
Oh, I didn't know that. I'll try to remember for the next EPROM. :)
Good memories of the msx, and that Philips looked so cool back in the day compared to the c64
It is a very cool looking machine indeed!
Great video, as always. That’s a nice looking MSX you have there, but I do wonder about their choice of location for the cursor keys.
Thanks! Yeah, they must have prioritized form over function when they designed that keyboard!
The Soviets purchased over 1,000 MSX computers from Yamaha to use in schools. They were paired with Eizo monochrome monitors.
Oh, interesting! Didn't know that at all but it kind of makes sense. They are excellent machines to learn programming on I guess. And probably one of the less expensive solutions at the time, too!
There was also the Panasonic Turbo R after the 2+ and there are rumours about a ('official') MSX3 retro standard for 2023.
Oh, a new MSX standard would be cool. :D
There was literally only a machine or two that were of the Turbo R standard though right? And no commercial software for it? Even the 2+ is just a handful of machines and a handful of titles? However, Jan must get an MSX2, as it's leaps and bounds better than the standard MSX
@@stephenpalmer9375 There are actually quite a lot 2+ software releases, mostly shooters and scrollers. Turbo R are indeed only 2 machines from Panasonic, but the were pretty populair as the 'ultimate' MSX. Not many games for it specifically, since it had the same 2+ vdp, but it had a faster CPU and PCM audio added. MSX2 is indeed the mainstream sweetspot, but you at least want to add MSX-Music /FM-PAC/FM-PAK to that. Also note that a 2+ came with MSX-Music, KUN-Basic(compiler-based) and sometimes a Turbo CPU option too out of the box. All can be used in a MSX2 too, I have a Sony HB900P upgraded to 2+, 7MHz CPU, 1 MB RAM, 192kb VRAM, SRGB mod and lots of other small tweaks.
@@skillaxxx interesting! I’m a fairly new convert to MSX (never saw them at the time), so clearly I don’t know enough about the later two models. I’d love to find a 2+ somewhere .. I have a modern version of Sonic that is crying out to be played lol (I bought it in error).
Also.. the two cartridge slots.. some Konami carts (and they really supported the platform) unlock extra content if you have two of their games in each slot!
MSX, the first time i saw one was in a computer store where they showed of pictures of fruit and a parrot and back in the day that was mindblowing. A friend om mine got a MSX from his mother, because she didnt want to buy him a C64 otherwise he would only play video games instead of learing coding and how computer worked. He was so bummed out :)
But there are quite a few great games for the MSX, too (as your friend and his mother probably found out sooner or later)… :D
You can use a w27c512 on that cart. Easier than eprom. There is an app, msx2cas on android that may help you test the datacorder port.
Yamaha made several models of MSX computer with very interesting music add ons. I think they were hoping to target schools with them, but the Atari ST arrived around the same time and dominated the music making market.
Yeah, it was an extremely good idea to put MIDI ports into the ST. They were used for all kinds of production work for ages. Interesting that Yamaha wanted to tap into that market with the MSX. I'm going to have to read up on that!
@@JanBeta The Yamaha MSX machine was the CX5M, which had an eight voice polyphonic synthesiser built in. I think it was a four operator FM synthesiser, which would have made it similar to Yamaha's middle of the range professional equipment of the same era.
As soon as I saw those cursor keys, my first thought was "While that's a pretty layout, whoever thought that was a good idea should be fired!"
Maybe a graphics designer made that decision, I would guess. I mean, it looks very nice but is completely unusable. Definitely there was no (good) engineer involved in that design choice. :D
Why is it called a joystick?
It comes from WWII fighters like the Hurricane and Spitfire where the stick that controlled the aircraft and fired the cannons came up between the pilot's legs. Similar to the pilot's own joystick but perhaps even more fun.
Haha, that makes sense. Weird.
Planet K Ron A by Focus 10 ist geil! Übrigens, gute Arbeit!
Vielen Dank! Focus 10 ist mittlerweile auf fast allen Streaming-Diensten und bei Bandcamp (Link in der Beschreibung), falls du da Interesse hast. ;)
Nice Jan, the philips msx were the first computers in the primairy schools in the Netherlands arround 1986 philips had a special deal with the goverment. So alot of parents bought a msx but the most cool games (pirate games) were on de C64. The most cool was the upright tape unit. that was also slow. the pitate games on fast load on the c64 were also faster.
Great to hear the MSXs were used in schools over there! Makes sense that Philips struck a deal with the government back then. And they are definitely great systems to learn programming on etc! I am going to try to make a cassette recorder cable soon to try out the tape loading on the MSX. :)
I still have mine VG8020. :)
Nice! I think the 8020 has all the flaws fixed that the 8010 has (keyboard and memory).
The MSX computers were very interesting. It should have been backed by all home computer makers. Should all have produced a compatible machine. They could each have added their own upgrades as long as there was a base level compatibility. This was the right way to go. Far cheaper than the IBM PC clones.
Yes, it was a great idea and could easily have been the future. For some strange reason the IBM compatibles won the market. Probably because they were even more modular in the end. But I guess the MSX architecture could have been expanded even further.
@@JanBeta That whole branch of the evolutionary tree died. The Z80 with CP/M could have been where we are now instead of x86. I know it lived on for a while in hand held games and embedded systems.
Excellent review!
Thank you!
Do one on a TI/99-4A and repairing its power supply.
I actually have one of those (although I think the power supply works fine, isn't it just a transformer in a box?).
MSX is great, i have an MSX 2...
I have a broken MSX2 in the basement, I'm going to get to trying to fix it eventually (hopefully). Great systems!
I was born in 1990s and as far as i can tell some computers back in 1980's were kind of toy/computer hybrid than a full fledge computing machine,because of their poor keyboard type,build quality and IC reliability issues.And to be honest, i think companies were not to blame,manufacturing costs were high and there was highly demands for home PC's.Professionals needed to use high end computers that came with a five digit price tag.Todays oridinary computers beat those "high end" computers.😂
Have that same MSX. Yes its not very compatible and mine doesnt have a power supply and is in a kind of a sad shape. havent tested it yet but maybe someday, might work nothing broken except the cartridge flap but oh its dirty :)
It's practically new!!
I always find items that look like they were chewed by a dog!
Yep, I got lucky with this one (especially considering I didn't really want the MSX in the first place).
I got a bit addicted to buying MSX models from Japan for a bit. On the whole, they have always been in lovely condition - except where people seem to have used them to stub out cigarettes!
Excellent 😊
Thank you!
i have a question i hope you can help there is a website selling the new msx computer and it has every single msx software built in do you think its worth buying
Oh, I can't really answer that I'm afraid. I'm completely new to the MSX world at this point. It sounds like a neat idea but it depends on what you want, I guess. I'd always opt for the retro route as in getting the original machines from back in the day and some extension that allows you to access modern media (there's some excellent SD cartridges that also act as RAM expansions for the MSX as far as I know).
Philips made one of the most reliable capacitors of all brands. Why do you think the psu was still working? They don’t need replacing, nothing you can buy now a days won’t come close to the philips LL capacitors.
they are over 30 years old and will be well past their best lifetime
They are definitely great capacitors but they are nearly 40 years old now and all electrolytic caps degrade over time.
@@jaycee1980 that is a rule of thumb, but not necessary true. That counts for under what conditions they have worked and the main factor is temperature. As a profession I am a restorer of vintage audio equipment and the health of a capacitor can measured. And I measure the health of capacitors all the time. And my conclusion with the philips capacitors is when I measure there health after a reforming proces there esr leakage get to a value like straight out of the box like they are new. And I was hesitant of using the old caps but I thought they measure good. So I did some trails and mounted them in insignificant equipment like a simple radio a power supply for a clock etc etc. And did these experiments more than 20 years ago and the radio and the clock are working every day till this day without any problems. Keep in mind that only counts for the Philips caps (elko’s) especially the LL series and the old nut lock and twist lock series. The even older types with pressure relieve valves on top do give problems but with your work you will never come across those they are pre pc times. Philips film capacitors (the orange one on that pcb) previous series where mustard color or had a color code also known as tropical fish these are among the most reliable film capacitors in existence. You do have to be careful with Philips carbon resistors there where series that had lose end caps and they develop cracks in there coating and can give one of the most difficult the find faults. Good luck with your channel and I completely understand why you would replace the caps. Because it is the right thing to do. Happy holidays!
Many (if not most) Quickshot joysticks had the CPC mode switch. So maybe you should reconsider doing an CPC-to-MSX adapter instead of Amiga-to-MSX.
I have one of those Quickshots with the CPC switch. Most of my joysticks are Commodore standard though, so I don't really have much use for a CPC adapter. I might look into making a Sega-MSX adapter eventually, there's some good designs for that available. :)
Why would you need a CPC to MSX adapter anyway? You can just use a CPC joystick on an MSX.
Marketing inflating the amount of RAM in many computers was a thing. Some even added the ROM size into the figure.
Indeed! RAM was relatively expensive so they had to do some marketing magic instead of actually putting more RAM into the machines, I guess. :D
Nice, sadly that type of MSX computer has not the best keyboard (shame on you Philips), but I have good memories of it. Especially the MSX 2. Too bad I sold everything.
Yeah, the keyboard looks nice but doesn’t work very well. Probably they favored form over function for this model. :D The MSX is a super interesting platform, definitely not the last video on this channel about it!
@@JanBeta Good luck; there's a lot to do for the MSX.
I think it's a beautiful looking machine. Just a shame about the keyboard.
Yes, beautiful design but the keyboard (at least the arrow keys) are barely useable. Glad they changed that in the next model. :D
It's so pretty...
It is!
joystick link not working from the USA
Nice bit of industrial design, but it's just a pity about the keyboard!
Indeed! It looks great but functionality is not very good. :D
there are a couple of Casio MSX that have a similar approach to the keyboard, which are hopeless.. but at least they took the chunkier and more obvious approach to the arrow keys.
Looks like their was a lot of leakage on the power supply pcb.
I think that is probably flux residue. It was visible around all the drilled holes in the PCB. Most likely the solder bath this went through had flux in it and they didn't clean the PCB after it went through that. All caps actually looked intact without any signs of bulging/corrosion/leakage.
I've never run across one of those on this side of the Atlantic. They must be somewhat rare.
I think these particular ones were not very loved (for the lack of RAM and the strange keyboard) but the later Philips models were pretty common over here.
@@JanBeta Yes. Strange keyboard. It may not be practical but aesthetically it looks pretty cool!
That diagram must have some inaccuracies, as I used to use my Master System, AND Mega Drive controllers on my Amiga 500 and Amiga 1200 all the time, with Zero issues.... Often used the Amiga Joysticks on my Megadrive too, without issue!!
This table says it shouldn't work...
The diagram is correct (as far as I can see). The Sega pads work to some extend on other systems but they are sometimes shorting out pins on the ICs in the systems etc, so it's not recommended using those without an adapter as you might damage the computer in the long run (although they do work for the most part). See here, for example: eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=907587&postcount=8
@@JanBeta I used them for a good 10 or so years without problems or issues to any of the systems, they were even passed on to family, then eventually sold-on... (talking over 20 years ago now) :D
I even used the the "Cheetah Bug" joystick with my MasterSystem, and the Autofire worked... so, I don't know what to say!
Also, that thread also seems to odd, or some info missing somewhere, as all buttons worked on the Sega Megadrive pad w/Amiga - was great for playing MortalKombat...
Oh my god, those arrow keys 🥴
Yep. :D
Hi Jan, nice Video but your YT-Links to the other channels dont work ! 😒
Ooops, sorry, something must have gone wrong while I copied+pasted the links. I just fixed them (I think) and they should work now. Thanks for pointing that out!
hello bro how come now there is no service amplifier anymore
Oh, there's going to be more amplifier restorations sometime. I just focused more on vintage computers for a while because I'm more interested in those at the moment. The audio equipment restorations are always fun but I don't do them very frequently currently.
For why MSX wasn't successful in US, there are couple of main reasons. It was late in the game, there were already Commodore, Apple and Atari machines in the market from american companies. Also, US computer users were already heavily floppies and MSX1 disk drive support was shoddy to say the least. And when MSX2 came out, PC clone market was already in full swing and 16-bit micros were being pushed to market (ST, Amiga). So, it is mostly about timing and about the capabilities system offered at the time.
Makes sense, thanks!
In that time and era some high quality joysticks had a switch at the bottom, A for Atari / Commodore etc. and B for MSX. I remember specifically that black model you have over there (Made by S.T.C. in Rotterdam) had such a switch. That joystick had real microswitches in it, therefore it was guaranteed to work till there was not one single alien aircraft still around! Normally the alien invaders keep on sending new ships to Earth, but when they hear the real microswitches click eventually they give up and Earth is safe again.
Most other joysticks did not have real switches but pieces of foil rubbing to each other, with that kind of joystick you lose always at the end. And then the aliens will overtake Earth and place some lizard people politicians here. The result is a staggering inflation and a World Wide War on food manufacturers like farmers. Now the aliens / lizard people made the prices on fuel go up, we are going to have a cold winter, and this would not have happened if computer owners bought the right joysticks with real microswitches.
I remember owning a joystick that was switchable to the CPC pinout but I didn't see one for the MSX back in the day. Probably they were available here as well as the MSX was quite popular in Germany. Microswitches are indeed the best way to defeat those invaders! :D
Frankly: I wouldn't trust those old PSU further than I can throw them and, if possible, replace them with modern ones.
Ah, the switching PSUs are usually pretty reliable in my experience (in that they won't put out overvoltage in case they break, they will just short out and die in a bang). At least they usually don't harm anything connected to them. A modern power supply would of course be the more reliable option, especially since I only need standard voltages for this MSX.
@@JanBeta I didn't think about the Reliability of the PSU at all, I was just thinking about the Safety for the Device connected to it as well as Ripple.
Might be an interesting endeavor to measure ripple and compare it to a modern (good quality) one.
modern ATX PSU have next to no ripple. 20mV is considered bad...
But they have a bit too high current (15-20A on 5V)...
NABU sent me.
There seems to be quite some NABU hype recently! Lovely system, I wish I could get my hands on one.
Couldn’t find a Lips one?
I hear they can easily be modded! ;)
ez a kényszeredett elkócsere már nevetséges.
You mean the recapping? The original caps are nearly 40 years old now and are not going to be very reliable. I know there's "opinions" about the aging of capacitors but if you ask any proper electronics engineer, they will tell you that electrolytic capacitors have a limited lifespan and it makes sense to replace old ones with good brand new ones.
@@JanBeta I'm an electronic engineer :)
So you should surely know about the limited lifespan of electrolytic capacitors.
Ich wünschte mein Deutsch wäre so gut wie dein Englisch.
Oh, danke, Deutsch ist sehr viel komplizierter als Englisch. Vermutlich ist mein Englisch besser als mein Deutsch (und beides ist nicht fehlerfrei). :D
The original Microsoft X box
No.
@@meh3247 Shut Up
This is 100% the sort of individual who calls the PC part of the "XBOX ecosystem" lmao
@@eddiehimself Do some historical research numbnuts
Haha, maybe you could argue that historically speaking. :D
Thanks for the great and entertaining video, Jan:) Always good to learn something new, like: It's hard to believe that Phillips is also capable of something clever...besides Christmas tree lighting! (I am joking!). Now to the usual Interweb stuff, sorry ... can't resist ... or else another mad electric-girl does it. Some trivia on shielding: Usually in cable connections we put the shielding only on one side at GND-level. Otherwise you create a wonderful antenna, the opposite of shielding;) The reason for this is that normal wires have a current flow. Because they also have a resistance there is always a potential difference between side A and B of the cable. This potential difference alone causes electromagnetic interference between the cable cores, also known as cross-talk. Since the shielding of the cable is only at a defined potential at one end, there can be no current flow at all. On the contrary, cross-induced magnetic fields are dampened and electromagnetic influences from outside the cable are diverted to the shielded potential. Putting the shielding net of the cable on both sides at a voltage potential like ground is like shooting yourself into the foot. You circumvent the shielding function and made it worse by building an antenna that puts EMI into your electronic system.
Normalerweise werden Steckverbindungen, bzw. Niederspannungs- und Datenverbindungen (in z.B. Industrieumgebungen sehr wichtig!) ab einer gewissen Länge immer abgeschirmt. Der Schirm wird dabei einseitig auf ein Potential gelegt. Legt man beide Seiten dieses Leitungsschirms auf das gleiche(Achtung! dort liegt das Problem) Potential an örtlich getrennten Orten, hat man damit das Gegenteil bewirkt und eine Antenne gefertigt, die fröhlich Störungen in die verbundene Schaltung einspeist. Räumlich getrennte Orte haben zwangsläufig ein unterschiedliches Potential (z.B. zwischen zwei 0V Verbindungen), wenn ein Strom fließt. Und ein Strom fließt natürlich ... sonst bräuchten wir ja keine Verbindung, wenn wir keine Signale übertragen wollten. Und natürlich bevorzugt über den sehr niederohmigen Schirm . (Um hier gleich den Fallstrick zu benennen: Je kleiner der Strom, also je spannungsgebundener die Auswertung der Übertragungstechnologie ist, desto anfälliger sind auch die Störeinflüsse!!! Vergleiche RS232 versus RS485).
Alleine schon diese Potentialdifferenz bedingt im Normalbetrieb eine elektromagnetische Störung zwischen den Leitungsadern, auch cross-talk oder Übersprechen genannt. Da die Schirmung der Leitung nur auf einem Ende auf definiertem Potential liegt, kann es gar nicht zu einem Stromfluss kommen. Im Gegenteil, quer-induzierte Magnetfelder werden gedämpft und elektromagnetische Einflüsse von außerhalb der Leitung werden zum aller größten Teil auf das Potential abgeleitet auf dem der Schirm liegt.
Andere Sichtweise: Der Schirm als durchgehender und benutzter Leiter. Der vollkommen die Datenleitungen ummantelt. An was erinnert das? Richtig! An einen Transformator, was es auch ist! Mit einer Seite nicht angeschlossen fällt das komplett weg. Ist eigentlich sehr schlau, wenn du dir das überlegst. Muss ein "Käpselle" gewesen sein, dem das eingefallen ist. Ich vermute einen dieser alten und rauhen Ingenieure beim Bau der ersten Telegraphen:)
Falls das nicht als Erklärung, bzw. als Ansporn reicht?: In der Ausbildung gab es eine ordentliche Schelle vom Meister, wenn man den Schirm doppelt aufgelegt hat:)))
Danke noch mal für deine tollen Videos und ich wünsche dir schöne Feiertage, Jan!:)
Thanks for pointing that shielding issue out. As far as I know it depends on the application but generally you are correct. I come from an audio engineering background and there are both schools there (most of the times, ground is connected on both ends, sometimes it has to be "lifted" because it introduces more noise). Philips only makes medical and specialized equipment these days as far as I know, most Philips branded devices are manufactured by someone else now. They made some excellent stuff during the 70s and 80s, I'm a bit of a fanboy of their measuring equipment (the oscilloscopes are awesome!) and their TVs. :)
@@JanBeta Didn't know that you had an Audio engineering background. Cool Jan:)
In this field, we certainly share the experience of ground loops or very questionable cascading voltages up to the musician (where else does David Bowie's hairstyle come from?) up to the "tickling" area. As a Death-Metal guitarist and electronics engineer (power supplies... what you're doing, you're doing wrong!) I know the problem all too well. It's a different disease than the one with the shielding, though. But it literally comes via the same route of infection, hehe :)
I also grew up with Philips which I thought was German (how stupid... "Koninklijke Philips N.V." CARAVAN-DRIVERS!), but in the 1970s I was more into drinking milk and learning to walk than electronics:) Just now, because you reminded me, I picked out my "Philips Autoreverse Walkman"... a real gem:) And let's not forget NXP Semiconductors and a lot of other great stuff besides lightbulbs that this company gave us! Including the wonderful analog oscis you mentioned and other industrial grade measuring devices. Screws? That would be too much adulation! Hehehe.
Actually, I'm a Siemens girl. Raised there, tested, shocked, measured and grown up. But this is another story.
Celebrate beautifully and enjoy the tropical Christmas! :)
Auf diesem Fachgebiet teilen wir sicherlich die Erfahrung der Brummschleifen oder sehr bedenklicher sich kaskadierender Spannungen bis zum ahnungslosen Musiker (wo sonst kommt die Frisur von David Bowie her?) bis in den "kitzelnden" Bereich. Ich als Todesmetall-Gitarristin und Elektronikerin (Batterien durch Netzgeräte ersetzen ... toller Gedanke! ... was du machst, machst du falsch!) kenne das Problem nur zu gut. Ist allerdings eine andere Krankheit als das mit der Abschirmung. Kommt aber sprichwörtlich über den selben Infektionsweg, hehe:)
Ich bin auch mit Philips aufgewachsen die ich für Deutsch hielt(wie blöd ... "Koninklijke Philips N.V." WOHNWAGENFAHRER!:P), in den 1970ern war ich aber mehr mit Milch trinken und laufen lernen als mit Elektronik beschäftigt:) Ich hab jetzt gerade, weil du mich daran erinnert hast meinen "Philips Autoreverse Walkman" herausgesucht ... ein wares Kleinod:) Und vergessen wir nicht NXP Semiconductors und viele andere tolle Sachen außer Glühlampen, die uns diese Firma beschert hat! Einschließlich der wunderbaren analogen Oszis, die du erwähnt hast, und natürlich andere wunderbare Messgeräte in Industriequalität. Schrauben? Das wäre zu viel Lobhudelei!
Eigentlich bin ich ja ein Siemens-Mädchen. Dort aufgewachsen, geprüft, geschockt, durchgemessen und groß geworden. Aber das ist eine andere Geschichte.
Feiert schön und genießt die tropische Weihnacht!:)
c64 was a 6510 not a 6502, its a variant...... but not a 6502
I know! I was talking more about the general architecture (which is the same for all 6502 variants, most only added some I/O ports or changed the pinout slightly).