Who makes the best Patch Cable? To find out, we've enlisted TH-cam’s most prolific tone-experts to compare the top patch cables on the market, determining which cable sounds the best! Check out the sound clips linked below, and tell us which cable YOU think sounds the best! 🔊 PATCH CABLE .WAV FILES 🔊 Les Paul (Clean) - bit.ly/3ojOZc8 Les Paul (Dirty) - bit.ly/39lhzW7 Stratocaster (Clean) - bit.ly/2NGf9Jt Stratocaster (Dirty) - bit.ly/36fYJ0K 🎵 PATCH CABLE LOOK-UP TABLE 🎵 Cable 1 - Lava Tightrope ( amzn.to/3sZSBDC ) Cable 2 - Canare GS-4 ( amzn.to/2YiRZec ) Cable 3 - George L .155 ( amzn.to/3t2tpw2 ) Cable 4 - Mogami 2314 ( amzn.to/39lhPVl ) Cable 5 - Evidence Monorail ( amzn.to/2Yl40zy ) Cable 6 - Mogami 2319 ( amzn.to/36dYmUm ) Cable 7 - Best Tronics CA-0678 ( btpa.com/CA-0678.html )
@@VertexEffectsInc I got an input buffer plus using the Swiss things buffer by Earth Quaker Devices Such a great unit! I can literally run 30 foot cable and I barely hear a difference in tone loss. Thanks Mr. Mason great video .👍🏻
After watching the video carefully and listening to all the WAV files, I definitely prefer the Mogami cables because I just bought 6 of them and spent hours soldering them. ;-)
@@VertexEffectsInc i will. I saw your video a few months back where you explained the characteristics of a good buffer for switchers. Will go back to that and make a decision.
I bought some Mogami W series cable and made several patch cables with various ends using varied solder techniques. Every single one of them sounded stiffer and more sterile compared to all the other cables I have used over time. Both cable directions were tested and we found one orientation to sound marginally less harsh with a little bit more punch, but interestingly, both directions sounded more tight and lifeless compared to other cables' worst sounding orientations. No more Mogami cables for us. We were asked by a studio to create a bunch of patch cables, and they said they wanted Mogami, and it was interesting how they were shocked to hear this info. The cable comparison was heard by the client, and they agreed the Mogami didn't let through the dynamics and realism of the source signal. It is as if they act as a compressor! They also impart a sibilant quality on the mids. Be sure to listen to the cables you plan to use!
I like the Mogami cables, but I also like the fact that a good buffer makes the difference in cables negligible. This is especially true in a live environment. Remember those? We used to play live back in the days before C-19 viruses...
I’ve learned more from these buffer/cable videos than I thought. Totally saved my tone. I get it, it’s a taste thing. For me a solid input and output buffer is a saving grace. Stick to his impedance recommendations, they make a huge difference. If it’s not listed, ask the company. I’ve had great results just asking. Here is a list of pedals I’ve found that have Masons impedance recommendations. Strymon: Timeline, BigSky, El Cap, Mobius, BlueSky. (I’m sure there is more) Meris: so far all their pedals. TC Electronic: all pedals (newer) Boss: none.
This is wild. I just purchased a Landau Boost this morning from someone. This is basically a video on why I’m getting one! So pumped. To my ears, they all sounded pretty good (props on recording) but I like that top end on the lava for cleans. The mogami 2319 for dirty.
Did you download the .wav files? I actually think the Lava was most attenuated compared to the others, when I did the test I picked the Mogami 2314 most consistently.
Thank you very much for doing this. Getting these guys to chime in was absolutely gold. I've been on the fence for a while now on what patch cable to buy but now I can see how other people I follow and look up to (experts) describe what we all can hear together and I love the insight ❤Thank you again Rig DR
Perfect timing! I just re-did my board with Mogami 2314 last night, switching form 2319. The 2314 was so easy to assemble and I did notice a bit more high end returning to my signal path even with an input/output buffer. However, I do have some cables made with the Evidence cable that sound great as well! Great video and thanks for providing the wav files!
Hi Mason, Love your pedal boards and your effects. I really like the mogami cables! I've used them for about 10 years here on the reservation in cherokee nc. Prior to covid I played a lot of gigs at harrahs casino with these cables and they never failed. I teach young native americans how to play guitar for free and I could use those cables to give to my students whose parents cant afford these types of items. Love your channel and please keep all the great content coming!!!
Why not record once and re-amp the recording? Or record the riffs to a looper and play the loop for each cable? Eliminate one more variable. Also next time, I would either have one of the samples be the shortest possible cable (or omit the extra cable loop), or alternatively provide that as a sample/reference to give the listener something to which they can compare, because the tonal differences that they may or may not prefer can often be replicated or compensated within the EQ stack in a pedal or on the amp. Or maybe you DID provide them the direct reference, just as you did for us, the viewers? I'm spitballin' here! Obviously the video tickled my fancy. Thanks, Mason!
The issue with doing that is it would be sending a low impeding signal to all of the patch cables, therefore and notifying the difference between them as you saw once the buffer was introduced. This was the only way to truly hear what the impact was of each individual cable. There was a clean control for every patch cable, I can link that folder to you if you’d like it in addition to the wav files that are published in the description where you can repeat this experiment yourself.
Tbh, I thought the Boss buffer was closer to the "straight in the amp" tone. The Vertex boost sounded great as you could hear higher frequencies and provided more "presence", but the Boss sounded more like the "straight to amp". Stop, rewind, FF etc and it becomes really obvious.
So basically having a buffer let’s you worry not about cables that much 😂 great video! It’s awesome to see that actually the difference is not THAT game changer
@@nazinas21 I have 2 jhs buffers. The standard black box and the prestige. I used one at the beginning and one at the end. Recently replaced them with the Mesa Buffer Mason Recommended and it’s much clearer than the jhs one(it also has a on/off boost). The jhs one colors and compresses the sound a bit(but still a much better signal opposed to no buffer at all).
Great presentation. Been using George L and Lawrence cable for years with no significant issues. Going to start soldering though, so on to Mogami. At least for the cables on the pedalboard. Yes quality buffers are a must, even on a smaller board.
The 2314 seems like a great all around cable. Although like you said they all sound pretty similar once you add a buffer. Totally going to upgrade all my patches soon. Thanks for doing this Mason!
WOW! Very enlightening! Especially about the different cables interactions with the high quality Vertex buffers! I have used George L patch cables for the past 15 years but it may be time to add a quality buffer and soldered connectors! Thanks Mason and Team!!
Hard to choose from a great lineup of cables, but since I play a Les Paul that Lava cable and the Mogami 2314 sounded the best with greater presence. Awesome video btw!
The Lava was quite impressive all around, tight, clean. The others were good overall, but have more noticeable high or low end differences against control. But if price was considered, the Mogami 2314 finds the lead. And as you mentioned, add a quality buffer and the difference really comes down to price and availability. I have been watching your buffer and rig doctor videos and am now understanding why there are so many fussing over their cable type, they don't have a decent buffer or simply don't have one. Thank you for this and your other videos. You can see the effort and care you put into them. They are very timely and helpful as I am putting together my first pedal board : )
Hey Mason, this was a super informative video. I watched on several different speakers/headphones to monitor the difference!! Thanks to your board build videos and materials list(s), I’ve used the Mogami 2319 with the corresponding square plug connectors. Gearing up for my 2021 build, I’ve been wanting to make the switch to the 2314. Even more so now as I primarily use single coils into a clean amp. Thanks again for all the education!!
*Les Paul Clean:* 1 sounds the sweetest to me, 6 came in 2nd; *Clean Strat:* 5; *Les Paul Dirty* : 5, 7 came in 2nd; *Strat Dirty:* 7. Tomorrow I might pick completely different numbers. For some reason I liked no.1 on the clean Les Paul, but every other instance it sounded dull in comparison to the rest.
I would go with the Mogami 2314 because it seemed to react better with the Strat than with the Les Paul. The Strat pickups produce lower output than the PAFs which probably means that cable is more conductive than the others. Interestingly the Lava Tightrope sounded better with the Les Paul.
Thank you for putting out all of these extremely informative videos. I obsess over tone, like many/most players and feel I know a fair amount about the subject but you have opened my eyes to several things. First, that I need a buffer at the beginning of my pedal board. Yesterday I ordered the TC Electronics Bona Fide based on your recommendation. I have the Fulltone True-Path ABY-HT splitter with built in buffers and phase/polarity switch at the end of my board driving two 20 foot Mogami cables to 2 vintage amps. Second, that all my true-bypass pedals are sucking up some of my tone as well. I’ve been using George L’s on my pedalboard for years and I’m very happy with them but If I were purchasing cables today, I’d probably go with the Lava Tightrope based on price or maybe the Mogami 2314. Every part of the signal chain is important but other parts more so. I recently discovered how much picks can affect the tone. I’m currently using the Blue Chip Jazz 50 (1.25 mm). $35 for a single pick is absolutely ridiculous but considering the amount of money I’ve spent on pickups, Faber stop tail & bridge, cables, pedals and vintage amps, it is actually a decent $$$ spent / tone improvement ratio. It is extremely low friction and has held up well. The Dunlop Eric Johnson Jazz III (nylon) would be my next pick. I just wish they made a version that was 1.25 mm.
If you want to get some Mogami cables, which is what I prefer, we do sell them on www.therigdr.com and also on Reverb. Also we have some great DIY tutorials on how to make your own if your handy with a soldering iron. It all adds up having a great buffer, a at least a decent level quality cable.
I have used the Lava TR for 5+ years and recently moved to the Canare GS4; I do use an Empress I/O buffer but there is a difference in the sound between the two! But the big difference is how much quieter everything is with soldered cables. I think the Lava was my favorite in general for this video, I’d be very interested in trying out the Monorail in comparison to the other cables! So I’ll take that off your hands. 😊 Cheers!
Cool shootout! The Mogami sounded the best overall to me, but I plan to learn soldering so that I can start to make a buffer. That Les Paul straight into the Two Rock though wow 😯
Assuming they're assembled properly and soldered right, they'll all be about the same durability wise. Nothing on these is particularly fragile, maybe the solid corse stuff slightly.
Thanks for this great video! I like the Lava Cable the best, but they all sound pretty good. The take home message for me is to get a high quality buffer, which I don’t have. Thanks again!
I think they're great, honestly within a fraction of a percentage choice here in this video, and also one of the least expensive and easiest to assemble.
What a great video! I had no idea the difference between boosters. What a difference! I can see I may need to invest in a quality boost such as your Vertex Boost. I have the Boss TU3, and am now close to building my first pedalboard. I have the pedals chosen, not the board, but soon. They are residing on a large wooden TV dinner stand. Easier on my back as I play with their order. I dig your channel and have been subscribed quite awhile. If I am lucky enough to win any one of the cables used in your video, it would certainly be put to good use, and greatly appreciated. Either way I look forward to more of your videos. Oh, it was also very cool seeing some of the other folks I follow in this episode. Rock on!
Looks like solid core is pretty sweet for LP. Makes for clean boards too. Interesting that people liked a darker sounding cable for their brighter guitar (Strat), but a brighter sounding cable for the darker guitar (LP). Buffer is good call on this. I like fuzz though so only on the output or possibly on the dual mono split.
I’ve still got them custom soldered from the original Valley Arts. And all the way back to Sessum! If you can believe that. The cable is still beautiful and doesn’t show oxidation. The quarter inch 90s that they used aren’t faring as well, but they were that round flat inexpensive 90 that was popular back then and they end up separating-The quarter inch round ground from the 90 pancake part that screws together. How embarrassing I don’t have better terminal terminology.
Yes, I love Mogami 2314! You can get a dual buffer like the Mesa Boogie High Wire if you want an all in one solution. If you want to get a separate input and output buffer, you could get a Truetone, Bonafide, or a Mesa Boogie Stowaway
I was really surprised to see how the different cables sounds. The Mogami to me sounded the bests with the Strat which is my main instrument. I’ll have to check them out for my board. I’m using a mishmash of different cables right now.
@Vertex Effects haha you are right. I only use these cables for recording my music. Although they are short cables and I use about 6 or 7 pedals I noticed a high frequency loss when comparing to the straight "Gtr -Amp" signal. Right now I only use the JHS Spring Tank Buffered bypass Reverb pedal which does a great job! I watched one of your videos recently about buffers and I will surely buy 1 or 2 separate units! Thanks 😊
Ahhhh good-stuff Fellas . . . the Never-ending Quest, for the perfect Tone. It's a rabbit-hole, that just goes deeper & deeper. Stay Safe guys. oNe LovE from NYC.
Cool comparison. Would like to see a buffer comparison too. Is your buffer op-amp based or discreet? If it's discreet is it an ultra-linear design or only focusing on impedence and noise floor?
Yes, all OPAMP for the buffer in our boost. The DIY buffer we offer however is discrete. You can get to the same place on both, just a different approach.
Fascinating experiment. With a small board like mine that has far less than 30 feet of patch cables in total, I guess the hi roll-off would be a bit less. I use wireless - which if I am not mistaken, means I have a buffer already. But it may not be the highest quality. Would it cause any negative impacts if I added a buffer as the first device in my board's signal chain (ie: two buffers in series). If I wanted to add a high quality buffer, are there any PCBs you can recommend? I am very space limited, and would want to build my buffer into as small of a box as possible.
If you have 10 ft to the pedalboard and 10ft to the amp, that’s 20ft already. That in your patch cables and I bet you’re pretty close to where we are. Even still, the rules about buffering still apply, and you have to remember to we weren’t dealing with all the connections inside the pedals themselves, switches, etc. your wireless unit will act as an input Buffer, but you would still ideally need an output buffer in order to drive the line effectively back to the amplifier, because the pedals on the pedalboard will not be that effective at driving long lines without loss.
Have you ever tried Tour Gear Designs? If you have, what are your thoughts and how would you compare them to the other soldered patch cables in the video?
This is awesome Mason. I actually have used George L for a long time for patch and mogami for my actual line in and out of my board. I’d love to get one of these other brands a try!
Hello Mason, could you make a video on bringing power to the pedalboard (120-240vac) and Into the power supply? I would love to see how you would wire that using iec jacks. I have a power supply that uses 18vdc for the incoming power, so I would love to see how you may use an iec jack (120-240vac) to then transform that to 18vdc while of coarse keeping everything super clean and professional. Thanks!
Garrett because of the high voltage, we're not able to get into this sort of stuff in a DIY fashion due to the obvious risks if someone injures themselves. If you have an 18V feeding a supply, you don't need an IEC plug. This is likely a switch mode supply where the mains just don't connect directly into the power supply and they disaggregate the AC mains into an external box before it's converted to DC on the output feeding your power supply.
@@VertexEffectsInc You are correct. My power is a wall plug transformer that takes the power from 120vac to 18vdc which then plugs directly into my power supply. The reason I was asking, was because I would like to have a lot more flexibility in the range of my pedalboard using a longer power cord. Currently, mine is only 5’ long. I figured that if I switched to an iec plug and then had a transformer mounted either on my pedalboard or on my power supply I would be able to make a small patch power cable feeding my power supply from the transformer. Would that be a viable option for achieving more range with my pedalboard? Preferably I would love to get 15-25’ of range which would work with thicker gauged wire via the iec cable.
I’m going to link this video anytime anyone says buffers ruin tone. Even the boss tuner buffer made a world of difference. I’d rather roll the tone off on the amp/pedals instead of just being stuck with a dark sound from a long cable.
i think the Mogami and the tightrope sound the clearest. But i totally agree that buffers totally negate the effect of the cable.. in any case, for a direct to the amp cable, Mogami and tightrope are my picks great video as always. Gigantic switcher :)
Thanks for watching! And, remember...put a buffer in front of any of these cables and they're all about the same and any differences are pretty well nullified!
This is a great video. Quite a natural comparison. A video down the same vein but perhaps more 'scientific' would be to record the guitar directly into a DAW, then send that recording through the various loops. It would eliminate the variable in playing, and the response of amps. Very clinical but in combination with this video it would cover most bases. I'm currently rewiring my board. I have George L's, lava, monorail and now mogami 2314. I'll be ditching the George L's and lava for the mogami but keeping the monorail. With my rig the lava doesn't sound bad but is a little dull. George L's were always bright (given cables can't 'add' anything I always figured it was losing the lows) but that worked well with my guitar and amp. Monorail sounded just right to me and by all accounts the mogami is good as well. Might look at getting an input buffer at some point that's not the built in ES8 one. The biggest issue with the George and Lava was the connection with the solderless designs. George L's weren't too bad but I've had loads of issues with lava. Evidence SIS with monorail has been flawless to me and I am looking forward to soldered cables.
It won't work as you've describe because the outputs will then be all low impedance - you won't then hear how a guitar actually drives them as the guitar pickups are very high impedance and looping or re-amping won't provide the same type of signal. This is why it was done this way. If you like George L or Evidence, just solder them. The cable is fine, just the solderless element is the problem.
Question: we're basically talking about conductors, capacitance, and voltage, right? So the buffer increases the voltage making the resistance of the conductor relatively negligible. If I am boosting my amp with an overdrive pedal or a treble booster, the pedal is providing a similar function as the buffer while the pedal is engaged, no?
Depends on how efficient the pedal you're using as a buffer can drive capacitance on the output. Typically the higher the output impedance, the less able a pedal can drive a capacitive load on the output. 1K is standard for pedals, which is not great. Ideally a good buffer is 10x lower than that, around 100 ohms or as close to zero as possible. Some pedals, like Strymon for example, has a 100 ohm output on it's delay and reverb pedals, and that at the end, set to buffer mode, will be better than most buffers, but that's only the output buffer, you'd still ideally want one up front for the guitar and to address the pickup loading issues.
I think a huge factor is what sound we're used to hearing - it's very subtle, but the Mogami comes off as more familiar to me than the others, especially in the high end. Funnily enough, with no other pedals in the chain I actually really like the sound of the buffer in the TU-3 - the slight high attenuation feels more correct to me whereas the Boost almost feels too bright, like you're plugged into the amp with a 3 foot cable! I imagine that with a full pedalboard though, that extra brightness would be more than swallowed up, and the Boost would then sound the most natural to me.
The issue is that the TU-3 will be variable in every situation and whatever is turned on after it and how much capacitance it actually has to drive. Ordinarily, on a pedalboard, Boost or TU-3, you're probably only going to be driving a few feet of cable before you either 1) turn on another pedal which becomes the buffer from that point forward or 2) hit another buffered pedal that become the buffer from that point forward. Either way, you're really relaying on the input buffer more for the pickup loading rather than the output impedance. Even though the Boost and TU-2 have 1M input impedances, the TU-2 has a higher noise floor, and actually looses about 1dB of gain on the output. Even if it's only going to a single patch cable before another buffer or always on pedal, you'd degraded the signal just by running through it, or many other BJT style buffers. My goal is always a 10ft cable as the reference tone when running through the board and A/Bing that. If you find it bright, I make adjustments with the input cable (choose something with higher capacitance) since that's not part of the "active" buffered pedalboard system and is only being driven by your passive guitar pickups. Capacitance seen on the output of the pickups can be very easily influenced by the cable in that position.
@@VertexEffectsInc Very good point, as long as the signal integrity is maintained in the first place it's always possible to adjust it for more roll-off after the fact, but there's no way to put it back once it's gone.
@@anthonydratnal1870 this is what I've found over doing it a while...put the variables outside of the board, you can't unscramble a scrambled egg as they say.
This was really interesting. My rig was sounding weak and this video reminded me to double check the dip switches in my Polytune 3... The buffered bypass was off. Now I know why my bass was sounding like it was under water.
liked the 2319 for the strat tones, just so happens that is what i use/play...for the LP it was a tough choice, but the 2314 seemed to encompass best of both worlds with clean and dirty...with a top notch buffer it did not seem to matter at all, which is good to know!
Vertex Effects Was think if the wiring from the switches (or relays don’t know exactly how that switcher works) was a different length effectively making the cables longer depending on the loop they are in! Then again it’s going to be such a short distance it’s going to be negligible!
#4 was a clear standout to me. #5 not too bad either. #1. Was pure mud... Lol. And guess what cables are on my board... Evidence and 2314! Probably going straight 2314 when I get a loop switcher.
Ian...yes indeed! We did the instrument cable test already in another video. Belden 8412 was the winner :). There are .wav files there too you can download and try for yourself.
Hey Mason I’ve always use George L because they’re based out of here in Nashville. However, the 2314 sounded great!....also The buffer advice was very insightful I’m gonna look into the vertex boost.
Thanks for the videos Mason! Question, Is there a way to DIY daisy chain power cable? I'm out of outputs on my CS12 and could daisy chain some of my low powered analog pedals.
Just started binging this channel. Great stuff and now i have to rearrange part of my pedalboard, so thanks for that :) I'm curious if there is a change in the output buffer in the TU-3 or the TU-3w compared to the TU-2.
Still a BJT buffer, if they changed anything it didn't fix the impedance issues. It's still a 1K output. Maybe tighter tolerances but not a different design.
Excellent resource IMO, so glad you did this. Will be comparing sound files with something like izotope to check my ears as I think I discern varying degrees of clarity in the mids as well and I'm 'cable curious' (pun)
Super useful comparison! This is going to help a lot deciding which cables might work better for certain applications. I'm curious how the Lava would sound with a bass guitar. You mentioned the low end is a little tighter. I have all 2314 and SP400 on my pedalboard right now, its a hybrid board I use for bass and EG.
I’m glad you dig it. The low end only changed with a poor buffer - once we switched to the high quality buffer, like our boost, then all those changes are mitigated. The idea holds up the same bass or guitar in the low impedance environment.
WOW !!!! I would LOVE to receive the mogami 2314 patch cable ... simply because, i've been looking for it for ages ... since i 1st saw TheRiG Doctor tutorial for patch cables .... but its impossible to find the MOGAMI cables in my country PORTUGAL .. there's no place that sell it ... and even in Europe i cant find a dealer that would ship to POrtugal !!!! so it would be a dream came true to me .. if i was lucky enough to be one of the Lucky subscribers to receive it !!!! Stay Safe & Rock On Rui from POrtugal
Great video! I run a Strymon Iridium as my amp last in the chain on my pedalboard at church. Right now just have my Peterson Strobostomp HD tuner first in my chain. It is buffered, but not how good it is? Do you feel I would benefit from having a dedicated buffer at the beginning? Thanks so much!
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for the quick reply! In your opinion would I be able to tell the difference if I had a dedicated HQ buffer at the beginning of the chain before the Strobostomp HD? (It can be switched to true bypass). I have 11 pedals before the Iridium which is last (including an always on compressor after the Peterson tuner if that helps) Thanks and I will quit bugging after this!
@@kylefuqua2778 I haven't studied this buffer in the Peterson so I can't say specifically. If you did decide to go with a high quality buffer separately from the Tuner, I'd bypass the buffer in the Tuner.
Just put my first board together today. It's missing a pedal or two and the final touches with the wiring but it's great to finally have one. Thanks for the great content. Next step is getting the iron and making cables, love learning new skills. Should have done this years ago. Thanks for the inspiration. I liked the mogamis and cable uno.
To be quite honest, I thought the signal with the boost turned on was a tiny bit brighter than with the cables bypassed. Does the boost have a bit of coloration?
Remember, as said in the video, when the buffers are engaged, they no only eliminate the capacitance of the 30 feet of patch cable, but also the cable that connects the Loop Master True Bypass Looper back to the amps, so in the "Bypassed" sound, you get the 10 ft input cable, plus the 10 ft. output cable, and in the engaged signal with the buffer, you're only getting the 10 ft input cable, the rest is conditioned by the buffer. The Boost is totally flat, no EQ, no tone change. What you're hearing is the difference between the output cable being conditioned versus seeing the full 20 ft of cable in the bypassed sound.
I like to use to Mogimi 2314 and mogimi 2319 with sp400 cable ends However I prefer the 2319’s because they’re 0.040 thousands of an inch thicker making them clamp in the cable ends better . I was just thinking about this issue when you came out with this episode ….lol ….Great show….. I wish I knew you 30 years ago when I started jammin would have cut out a lot of bullshit… keep on rockin Broski ………..
you can watch our buffer videos to get more info on this, but the basic rule is two buffers, input and output. Input buffer is first, that the guitar plugs into directly. The output buffer is last, the last thing the pedalboard sees before a cable brings it back to the amp.
@@VertexEffectsInc would you say the truetone is better than maybe the gigrig grumpybot? Also I assume both have the 1MEG input impedance and 100 OHM output?
I have all Evidence Audio on my Board , just di y good fiends board with the Mogami 2314 (same switching system etc. ) 1st thing we noticed is just a little less noise/hiss/hum. with high pedals. with etc Mogami 2314
Could be the cable, but could also be 1000 other things in addition to just be soldered. Results might have been similar with soldering the Evidence cable. The cable is fine IMO, it's the solderless that's the issue.
Hey mason, what if I wanted to use my tc polytune 3 with buffer as the beginning of my chain but then also i’m using fuzz face type of circuit. Where should i place the fuzz face? Before or after the tuner? Or change the tuner into true bypass mode? However, i do have mxr cae buffer at the end of my chain. Will that be good enough? Thanks
Fuzz Face before the buffer. The CAE Buffer is inferior to the CAE Line Driver/Boost as a Buffer surprisingly. 1K output on the buffer, 100 ohm output if you get the Boost version. Crazy right?
Hey Mason! What if I just have only one or two pedals in front, 10ft cable from my guitar, a patch cable and another 10ft cable from the pedal to the amp? Do I still need to have buffer? Thanks man!
Thank for the video, very usefull. With that in mind I want to rebuilt my pedalboard with the Mogami 2314 and use the Mesa Engineering dual buffer. Thanks for the tutorial
Who makes the best Patch Cable? To find out, we've enlisted TH-cam’s most prolific tone-experts to compare the top patch cables on the market, determining which cable sounds the best!
Check out the sound clips linked below, and tell us which cable YOU think sounds the best!
🔊 PATCH CABLE .WAV FILES 🔊
Les Paul (Clean) - bit.ly/3ojOZc8
Les Paul (Dirty) - bit.ly/39lhzW7
Stratocaster (Clean) - bit.ly/2NGf9Jt
Stratocaster (Dirty) - bit.ly/36fYJ0K
🎵 PATCH CABLE LOOK-UP TABLE 🎵
Cable 1 - Lava Tightrope ( amzn.to/3sZSBDC )
Cable 2 - Canare GS-4 ( amzn.to/2YiRZec )
Cable 3 - George L .155 ( amzn.to/3t2tpw2 )
Cable 4 - Mogami 2314 ( amzn.to/39lhPVl )
Cable 5 - Evidence Monorail ( amzn.to/2Yl40zy )
Cable 6 - Mogami 2319 ( amzn.to/36dYmUm )
Cable 7 - Best Tronics CA-0678 ( btpa.com/CA-0678.html )
I really dig the clarity of the Mogami 2314, and the flexibility of routing the cable on the pedalboard when locking down the pedals.
@@C_Moore For sure, that's my vote if I added my take to the list of established artists and TH-camrs that weighed in.
No counting on the best sturdy ... as far as tone George L will always win hands down .
@@Tone2town it's all a matter of taste in the end. With a buffer, it's all pretty negligible.
@@VertexEffectsInc I got an input buffer plus using the Swiss things buffer by Earth Quaker Devices Such a great unit! I can literally run 30 foot cable and I barely hear a difference in tone loss. Thanks Mr. Mason great video .👍🏻
After watching the video carefully and listening to all the WAV files, I definitely prefer the Mogami cables because I just bought 6 of them and spent hours soldering them. ;-)
Hahaha...as good a reason as any! Just get a high quality buffer and now the cables are irrelevant.
@@VertexEffectsInc i will. I saw your video a few months back where you explained the characteristics of a good buffer for switchers. Will go back to that and make a decision.
@@Kapsouro yes, or you can build our DIY buffer and make it exactly how you want it.
@@VertexEffectsInc OK. Let me see..
I bought some Mogami W series cable and made several patch cables with various ends using varied solder techniques. Every single one of them sounded stiffer and more sterile compared to all the other cables I have used over time. Both cable directions were tested and we found one orientation to sound marginally less harsh with a little bit more punch, but interestingly, both directions sounded more tight and lifeless compared to other cables' worst sounding orientations. No more Mogami cables for us. We were asked by a studio to create a bunch of patch cables, and they said they wanted Mogami, and it was interesting how they were shocked to hear this info. The cable comparison was heard by the client, and they agreed the Mogami didn't let through the dynamics and realism of the source signal. It is as if they act as a compressor! They also impart a sibilant quality on the mids. Be sure to listen to the cables you plan to use!
Hey Mason. Thanks for putting all these great people together to settle the matter.
Yes indeed! All a matter of taste in the end, but Lava and Mogami seemed to separate themselves.
I like the Mogami cables, but I also like the fact that a good buffer makes the difference in cables negligible. This is especially true in a live environment. Remember those? We used to play live back in the days before C-19 viruses...
Yes indeed! A high quality buffer (not just any buffer), will nullify the differences between the cables for the most part!
I’ve learned more from these buffer/cable videos than I thought. Totally saved my tone. I get it, it’s a taste thing. For me a solid input and output buffer is a saving grace. Stick to his impedance recommendations, they make a huge difference. If it’s not listed, ask the company. I’ve had great results just asking. Here is a list of pedals I’ve found that have Masons impedance recommendations.
Strymon: Timeline, BigSky, El Cap, Mobius, BlueSky. (I’m sure there is more)
Meris: so far all their pedals.
TC Electronic: all pedals (newer)
Boss: none.
🙏🙏🙏 glad you’re fining it helpful !
So i guess I have to rewire my boards with George L's *solderless* then?
NOOOOOOO!!! Remember, buffers are the GREAT equalizer of all cables. Use a good buffer, cable no longer matters :)
Watching the videos has inspired me to rebuild my board with mogami 2319. I am absolutely blown away! Mason, thanks for your inspiration.!
So glad you hear it! Our pleasure!!!
Awesome job creating the tones and gathering all of the tone masters for their input!
Heck yea! Seemed like a better way to do it than what we've done before with only one person as our data point.
It's good to see you and Daniel interact with each other. Two of my favorite rig builders.
Daniel is the man!!
This is wild. I just purchased a Landau Boost this morning from someone. This is basically a video on why I’m getting one! So pumped.
To my ears, they all sounded pretty good (props on recording) but I like that top end on the lava for cleans. The mogami 2319 for dirty.
Did you download the .wav files? I actually think the Lava was most attenuated compared to the others, when I did the test I picked the Mogami 2314 most consistently.
Vertex Effects only on my Sony Headphones. I’ll listen later through my interface and monitors.
Thank you very much for doing this. Getting these guys to chime in was absolutely gold. I've been on the fence for a while now on what patch cable to buy but now I can see how other people I follow and look up to (experts) describe what we all can hear together and I love the insight ❤Thank you again Rig DR
My pleasure! So glad you dig this!
Perfect timing! I just re-did my board with Mogami 2314 last night, switching form 2319. The 2314 was so easy to assemble and I did notice a bit more high end returning to my signal path even with an input/output buffer. However, I do have some cables made with the Evidence cable that sound great as well! Great video and thanks for providing the wav files!
Yes, super easy, and as you can see, very favorable here. Use a buffer, and now they all are pretty much the same.
so wait....did i win? hahaha
We're all winners! Throw a buffer in there and you win the "Tone Lottery" every time no matter what cable you choose :)
real winner is that buffer. i had no idea
@@CoryWongMusic buffer all day! Or for you, the wireless is the input buffer
Hi Mason, Love your pedal boards and your effects. I really like the mogami cables! I've used them for about 10 years here on the reservation in cherokee nc. Prior to covid I played a lot of gigs at harrahs casino with these cables and they never failed. I teach young native americans how to play guitar for free and I could use those cables to give to my students whose parents cant afford these types of items. Love your channel and please keep all the great content coming!!!
Thanks for watching!!! And for sharing your story!!!
Why not record once and re-amp the recording? Or record the riffs to a looper and play the loop for each cable? Eliminate one more variable. Also next time, I would either have one of the samples be the shortest possible cable (or omit the extra cable loop), or alternatively provide that as a sample/reference to give the listener something to which they can compare, because the tonal differences that they may or may not prefer can often be replicated or compensated within the EQ stack in a pedal or on the amp. Or maybe you DID provide them the direct reference, just as you did for us, the viewers? I'm spitballin' here! Obviously the video tickled my fancy. Thanks, Mason!
The issue with doing that is it would be sending a low impeding signal to all of the patch cables, therefore and notifying the difference between them as you saw once the buffer was introduced. This was the only way to truly hear what the impact was of each individual cable. There was a clean control for every patch cable, I can link that folder to you if you’d like it in addition to the wav files that are published in the description where you can repeat this experiment yourself.
Tbh, I thought the Boss buffer was closer to the "straight in the amp" tone. The Vertex boost sounded great as you could hear higher frequencies and provided more "presence", but the Boss sounded more like the "straight to amp".
Stop, rewind, FF etc and it becomes really obvious.
Agreed
So basically having a buffer let’s you worry not about cables that much 😂 great video! It’s awesome to see that actually the difference is not THAT game changer
Having a HIGH QUALITY BUFFER...remember the Boss wasn't as neutral as the Vertex (or fill in the blank other high quality buffer like I recommend).
@@VertexEffectsInc exactly, is better to invest in a great buffer *cuff cuff vertex of course* rather than more expensive cables.
@@Dzamora612 I recommend Mesa Boogie, Truetone, and TC all day long...you can use or DIY buffer as well which is pretty cheap and easy to customize.
@@VertexEffectsInc What about JHS Buffer?
@@nazinas21
I have 2 jhs buffers. The standard black box and the prestige. I used one at the beginning and one at the end. Recently replaced them with the Mesa Buffer Mason Recommended and it’s much clearer than the jhs one(it also has a on/off boost). The jhs one colors and compresses the sound a bit(but still a much better signal opposed to no buffer at all).
I would select cable # 2 and cable # 4. I used Canare to connect old cd players and preamps. Your point about good buffers is spot on.
Thanks for watching!
I've always been a fan of the Mogami cables, never had any problems and they sound great. Congrats on the video!!
Thanks for watching!
Great presentation. Been using George L and Lawrence cable for years with no significant issues. Going to start soldering though, so on to Mogami. At least for the cables on the pedalboard. Yes quality buffers are a must, even on a smaller board.
Yes indeed! And Mogami is great are are the George L's just gotta solder them!
The 2314 seems like a great all around cable. Although like you said they all sound pretty similar once you add a buffer. Totally going to upgrade all my patches soon. Thanks for doing this Mason!
Yes indeed! My pleasure!
WOW! Very enlightening! Especially about the different cables interactions with the high quality Vertex buffers! I have used George L patch cables for the past 15 years but it may be time to add a quality buffer and soldered connectors!
Thanks Mason and Team!!
Yes!!! Buffers are the real winners here (as Cory Wong said).
Hard to choose from a great lineup of cables, but since I play a Les Paul that Lava cable and the Mogami 2314 sounded the best with greater presence. Awesome video btw!
Glad you dug the video!
Have used Mogami for years and will continue to....great video. Could actually hear some differences here!
Yes indeed! And download the .wav files if you want to do the shootout yourself!
The Lava was quite impressive all around, tight, clean. The others were good overall, but have more noticeable high or low end differences against control. But if price was considered, the Mogami 2314 finds the lead. And as you mentioned, add a quality buffer and the difference really comes down to price and availability.
I have been watching your buffer and rig doctor videos and am now understanding why there are so many fussing over their cable type, they don't have a decent buffer or simply don't have one. Thank you for this and your other videos. You can see the effort and care you put into them. They are very timely and helpful as I am putting together my first pedal board : )
Thanks for watching and for the support!
Great point about the buffers! Love the George L’s on my rig!
Glad you enjoyed the video!
Hey Mason, this was a super informative video. I watched on several different speakers/headphones to monitor the difference!! Thanks to your board build videos and materials list(s), I’ve used the Mogami 2319 with the corresponding square plug connectors. Gearing up for my 2021 build, I’ve been wanting to make the switch to the 2314. Even more so now as I primarily use single coils into a clean amp. Thanks again for all the education!!
Amazing! Glad you dig the video!!!
*Les Paul Clean:* 1 sounds the sweetest to me, 6 came in 2nd; *Clean Strat:* 5; *Les Paul Dirty* : 5, 7 came in 2nd; *Strat Dirty:* 7. Tomorrow I might pick completely different numbers. For some reason I liked no.1 on the clean Les Paul, but every other instance it sounded dull in comparison to the rest.
Thanks for watching
I would go with the Mogami 2314 because it seemed to react better with the Strat than with the Les Paul. The Strat pickups produce lower output than the PAFs which probably means that cable is more conductive than the others. Interestingly the Lava Tightrope sounded better with the Les Paul.
That's my go to!
Thank you for putting out all of these extremely informative videos. I obsess over tone, like many/most players and feel I know a fair amount about the subject but you have opened my eyes to several things. First, that I need a buffer at the beginning of my pedal board. Yesterday I ordered the TC Electronics Bona Fide based on your recommendation. I have the Fulltone True-Path ABY-HT splitter with built in buffers and phase/polarity switch at the end of my board driving two 20 foot Mogami cables to 2 vintage amps. Second, that all my true-bypass pedals are sucking up some of my tone as well.
I’ve been using George L’s on my pedalboard for years and I’m very happy with them but If I were purchasing cables today, I’d probably go with the Lava Tightrope based on price or maybe the Mogami 2314.
Every part of the signal chain is important but other parts more so. I recently discovered how much picks can affect the tone. I’m currently using the Blue Chip Jazz 50 (1.25 mm). $35 for a single pick is absolutely ridiculous but considering the amount of money I’ve spent on pickups, Faber stop tail & bridge, cables, pedals and vintage amps, it is actually a decent $$$ spent / tone improvement ratio. It is extremely low friction and has held up well. The Dunlop Eric Johnson Jazz III (nylon) would be my next pick. I just wish they made a version that was 1.25 mm.
If you want to get some Mogami cables, which is what I prefer, we do sell them on www.therigdr.com and also on Reverb. Also we have some great DIY tutorials on how to make your own if your handy with a soldering iron. It all adds up having a great buffer, a at least a decent level quality cable.
I have used the Lava TR for 5+ years and recently moved to the Canare GS4; I do use an Empress I/O buffer but there is a difference in the sound between the two! But the big difference is how much quieter everything is with soldered cables.
I think the Lava was my favorite in general for this video, I’d be very interested in trying out the Monorail in comparison to the other cables! So I’ll take that off your hands. 😊
Cheers!
Download the WAV files and do a blind test yourself and see what you hear.
@@VertexEffectsInc - will do!
@@ryanmbisson lemme know if that changes your mind :)
Cool shootout! The Mogami sounded the best overall to me, but I plan to learn soldering so that I can start to make a buffer. That Les Paul straight into the Two Rock though wow 😯
Heck yea!!! We have lots of great cable DIY videos on this so you can make your own just like us!
Like the way you presented comparison and getting feedback from the variety of artists
I really like the 2314 but the highwire sounded amazingly crisp when played on it's own. Great video.
The Highwire wasn't in the video, do you mean the buffer?
@@VertexEffectsInc Oh sorry, man. I meant the Lava. My bad. XD
@@danielfrabotta5501 gotcha
What a great video. Very thorough test, Mason
What about the important question, wich one is the most durable?? Nice comparison!
Assuming they're assembled properly and soldered right, they'll all be about the same durability wise. Nothing on these is particularly fragile, maybe the solid corse stuff slightly.
Thanks for this great video! I like the Lava Cable the best, but they all sound pretty good. The take home message for me is to get a high quality buffer, which I don’t have. Thanks again!
Yes indeed! I have several great ones (and most are poor that are out there commercially) listed in the description!
I definitely prefer the mogami , mostly because I spent close to a hundred dollars on them and spent hours soldering up my board
I think they're great, honestly within a fraction of a percentage choice here in this video, and also one of the least expensive and easiest to assemble.
HaHa... Dylan Lee Cut through the crap right to the bottom line Huh?
What a great video! I had no idea the difference between boosters. What a difference! I can see I may need to invest in a quality boost such as your Vertex Boost. I have the Boss TU3, and am now close to building my first pedalboard. I have the pedals chosen, not the board, but soon. They are residing on a large wooden TV dinner stand. Easier on my back as I play with their order. I dig your channel and have been subscribed quite awhile. If I am lucky enough to win any one of the cables used in your video, it would certainly be put to good use, and greatly appreciated. Either way I look forward to more of your videos. Oh, it was also very cool seeing some of the other folks I follow in this episode. Rock on!
Thanks for watching and I'm glad you dig the content!
Looks like solid core is pretty sweet for LP. Makes for clean boards too. Interesting that people liked a darker sounding cable for their brighter guitar (Strat), but a brighter sounding cable for the darker guitar (LP). Buffer is good call on this. I like fuzz though so only on the output or possibly on the dual mono split.
Glad you found this useful!
In general i liked Cable 2, Canare. Great content Mason....enjoyed it lots! Thanks....jimmy
Glad you did it! Please help spread the word
George L’s for over two decades! Multiple pedal board builds, stage and studio. Terrific!
Did you download the .wav files and compare to see which you chose? I think they're fine, just solder them!
I’ve still got them custom soldered from the original Valley Arts. And all the way back to Sessum! If you can believe that. The cable is still beautiful and doesn’t show oxidation. The quarter inch 90s that they used aren’t faring as well, but they were that round flat inexpensive 90 that was popular back then and they end up separating-The quarter inch round ground from the 90 pancake part that screws together. How embarrassing I don’t have better terminal terminology.
Great episode! For me, the mogami 2314 sounds better. Now, if im using pedals, which buffer can I use at the end?
Yes, I love Mogami 2314! You can get a dual buffer like the Mesa Boogie High Wire if you want an all in one solution. If you want to get a separate input and output buffer, you could get a Truetone, Bonafide, or a Mesa Boogie Stowaway
I was really surprised to see how the different cables sounds. The Mogami to me sounded the bests with the Strat which is my main instrument. I’ll have to check them out for my board. I’m using a mishmash of different cables right now.
Heck yea!
Love the video! For me the Lava Cable sounds the best, but the buffer as you say kinda gets rid of any differences, I needs to get me a good buffer!
Yes indeed!
I use Mogami 2524 for my American Tele and Mogami patch cable w/Gold Neutric. Couldn’t be happier. Thanks for the video ;)
Might be overkill, but it will work. Next step would be to get the high-quality Buffer
@Vertex Effects haha you are right. I only use these cables for recording my music. Although they are short cables and I use about 6 or 7 pedals I noticed a high frequency loss when comparing to the straight "Gtr -Amp" signal. Right now I only use the JHS Spring Tank Buffered bypass Reverb pedal which does a great job! I watched one of your videos recently about buffers and I will surely buy 1 or 2 separate units! Thanks 😊
That’s just a thick cable for a pedalboard, especially with Neutrik ends
Ahhhh good-stuff Fellas . . . the Never-ending Quest, for the perfect Tone. It's a rabbit-hole, that just goes deeper & deeper. Stay Safe guys. oNe LovE from NYC.
Thanks Michael! Hope you're great!
Cool comparison. Would like to see a buffer comparison too. Is your buffer op-amp based or discreet? If it's discreet is it an ultra-linear design or only focusing on impedence and noise floor?
Yes, all OPAMP for the buffer in our boost. The DIY buffer we offer however is discrete. You can get to the same place on both, just a different approach.
Fascinating experiment. With a small board like mine that has far less than 30 feet of patch cables in total, I guess the hi roll-off would be a bit less. I use wireless - which if I am not mistaken, means I have a buffer already. But it may not be the highest quality. Would it cause any negative impacts if I added a buffer as the first device in my board's signal chain (ie: two buffers in series). If I wanted to add a high quality buffer, are there any PCBs you can recommend? I am very space limited, and would want to build my buffer into as small of a box as possible.
If you have 10 ft to the pedalboard and 10ft to the amp, that’s 20ft already. That in your patch cables and I bet you’re pretty close to where we are. Even still, the rules about buffering still apply, and you have to remember to we weren’t dealing with all the connections inside the pedals themselves, switches, etc. your wireless unit will act as an input Buffer, but you would still ideally need an output buffer in order to drive the line effectively back to the amplifier, because the pedals on the pedalboard will not be that effective at driving long lines without loss.
Have you ever tried Tour Gear Designs? If you have, what are your thoughts and how would you compare them to the other soldered patch cables in the video?
Haven’t tried them, but as you can see I this video, as the quality of the buffer increased the cable differences really normalized.
Thanks for the video. Mogami 2314 sounded the best for me!
👍👍👍
This is awesome Mason. I actually have used George L for a long time for patch and mogami for my actual line in and out of my board. I’d love to get one of these other brands a try!
Or just get a high quality dual buffer and solder the George L's and you're there!
@@VertexEffectsInc very valid point lol
@@p.e.4978 thanks again for watching!
Hello Mason, could you make a video on bringing power to the pedalboard (120-240vac) and Into the power supply? I would love to see how you would wire that using iec jacks. I have a power supply that uses 18vdc for the incoming power, so I would love to see how you may use an iec jack (120-240vac) to then transform that to 18vdc while of coarse keeping everything super clean and professional. Thanks!
Garrett because of the high voltage, we're not able to get into this sort of stuff in a DIY fashion due to the obvious risks if someone injures themselves. If you have an 18V feeding a supply, you don't need an IEC plug. This is likely a switch mode supply where the mains just don't connect directly into the power supply and they disaggregate the AC mains into an external box before it's converted to DC on the output feeding your power supply.
@@VertexEffectsInc You are correct. My power is a wall plug transformer that takes the power from 120vac to 18vdc which then plugs directly into my power supply. The reason I was asking, was because I would like to have a lot more flexibility in the range of my pedalboard using a longer power cord. Currently, mine is only 5’ long. I figured that if I switched to an iec plug and then had a transformer mounted either on my pedalboard or on my power supply I would be able to make a small patch power cable feeding my power supply from the transformer. Would that be a viable option for achieving more range with my pedalboard? Preferably I would love to get 15-25’ of range which would work with thicker gauged wire via the iec cable.
@@garrettray669 you could just get an extension cord if you're molded cable is too short or not detachable.
what an incredible video. thanks for conducting the experiment!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I really like mogami 2314. I think it’s a very viable cable to solder patch cables.
yes indeed!
I like the Mogami. It's always be worked for me.
Same here, great cable, an easy to assemble!
I’m going to link this video anytime anyone says buffers ruin tone. Even the boss tuner buffer made a world of difference. I’d rather roll the tone off on the amp/pedals instead of just being stuck with a dark sound from a long cable.
YES TOM! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Absolutrely brilliant (as usual). Thank you so much Mason. YOU RULE! Mordi
Thanks brother Mordi!!!
aha i love this concept and i love rhett and rj, this should be epic
Yes indeed!
i think the Mogami and the tightrope sound the clearest. But i totally agree that buffers totally negate the effect of the cable.. in any case, for a direct to the amp cable, Mogami and tightrope are my picks
great video as always. Gigantic switcher :)
Thanks for watching! And, remember...put a buffer in front of any of these cables and they're all about the same and any differences are pretty well nullified!
This is a great video. Quite a natural comparison. A video down the same vein but perhaps more 'scientific' would be to record the guitar directly into a DAW, then send that recording through the various loops. It would eliminate the variable in playing, and the response of amps. Very clinical but in combination with this video it would cover most bases.
I'm currently rewiring my board. I have George L's, lava, monorail and now mogami 2314. I'll be ditching the George L's and lava for the mogami but keeping the monorail. With my rig the lava doesn't sound bad but is a little dull. George L's were always bright (given cables can't 'add' anything I always figured it was losing the lows) but that worked well with my guitar and amp. Monorail sounded just right to me and by all accounts the mogami is good as well. Might look at getting an input buffer at some point that's not the built in ES8 one.
The biggest issue with the George and Lava was the connection with the solderless designs. George L's weren't too bad but I've had loads of issues with lava. Evidence SIS with monorail has been flawless to me and I am looking forward to soldered cables.
It won't work as you've describe because the outputs will then be all low impedance - you won't then hear how a guitar actually drives them as the guitar pickups are very high impedance and looping or re-amping won't provide the same type of signal. This is why it was done this way. If you like George L or Evidence, just solder them. The cable is fine, just the solderless element is the problem.
Question: we're basically talking about conductors, capacitance, and voltage, right? So the buffer increases the voltage making the resistance of the conductor relatively negligible. If I am boosting my amp with an overdrive pedal or a treble booster, the pedal is providing a similar function as the buffer while the pedal is engaged, no?
Depends on how efficient the pedal you're using as a buffer can drive capacitance on the output. Typically the higher the output impedance, the less able a pedal can drive a capacitive load on the output. 1K is standard for pedals, which is not great. Ideally a good buffer is 10x lower than that, around 100 ohms or as close to zero as possible. Some pedals, like Strymon for example, has a 100 ohm output on it's delay and reverb pedals, and that at the end, set to buffer mode, will be better than most buffers, but that's only the output buffer, you'd still ideally want one up front for the guitar and to address the pickup loading issues.
I'm for the Lava Tightrope. The Mogami 2319s are good too
several good choices here, seems like the 2314 outdid the 2319 here however.
Mogami platinum patch cable to allow more low end, what do you think?
I think a huge factor is what sound we're used to hearing - it's very subtle, but the Mogami comes off as more familiar to me than the others, especially in the high end. Funnily enough, with no other pedals in the chain I actually really like the sound of the buffer in the TU-3 - the slight high attenuation feels more correct to me whereas the Boost almost feels too bright, like you're plugged into the amp with a 3 foot cable! I imagine that with a full pedalboard though, that extra brightness would be more than swallowed up, and the Boost would then sound the most natural to me.
The issue is that the TU-3 will be variable in every situation and whatever is turned on after it and how much capacitance it actually has to drive. Ordinarily, on a pedalboard, Boost or TU-3, you're probably only going to be driving a few feet of cable before you either 1) turn on another pedal which becomes the buffer from that point forward or 2) hit another buffered pedal that become the buffer from that point forward. Either way, you're really relaying on the input buffer more for the pickup loading rather than the output impedance. Even though the Boost and TU-2 have 1M input impedances, the TU-2 has a higher noise floor, and actually looses about 1dB of gain on the output. Even if it's only going to a single patch cable before another buffer or always on pedal, you'd degraded the signal just by running through it, or many other BJT style buffers. My goal is always a 10ft cable as the reference tone when running through the board and A/Bing that. If you find it bright, I make adjustments with the input cable (choose something with higher capacitance) since that's not part of the "active" buffered pedalboard system and is only being driven by your passive guitar pickups. Capacitance seen on the output of the pickups can be very easily influenced by the cable in that position.
@@VertexEffectsInc Very good point, as long as the signal integrity is maintained in the first place it's always possible to adjust it for more roll-off after the fact, but there's no way to put it back once it's gone.
@@anthonydratnal1870 this is what I've found over doing it a while...put the variables outside of the board, you can't unscramble a scrambled egg as they say.
how do you feel about the ernie ball patch cables?
Haven't tried them, can't say.
This was amazing, all I can say is thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This was really interesting. My rig was sounding weak and this video reminded me to double check the dip switches in my Polytune 3... The buffered bypass was off. Now I know why my bass was sounding like it was under water.
Hahahaha! Amazing! Good catch! Thanks for watching!
liked the 2319 for the strat tones, just so happens that is what i use/play...for the LP it was a tough choice, but the 2314 seemed to encompass best of both worlds with clean and dirty...with a top notch buffer it did not seem to matter at all, which is good to know!
I use Mogami mostly on the rigs we do...they're all good in the end! Use a good buffer and you're totally solid!
Out a matter of interest would the internal capacitance of the switcher effect it any bit depending on which loop the cables are ran through?
sure, but every cable would be subject to the same capacitance if only one loop is in at a time as it was in this test.
Vertex Effects Was think if the wiring from the switches (or relays don’t know exactly how that switcher works) was a different length effectively making the cables longer depending on the loop they are in! Then again it’s going to be such a short distance it’s going to be negligible!
Thx...feeling better about my mix of George L’s and evidence cables. Great video Doc!
Yessir, put a high quality buffer in front of them and you’ll really be in good shape! I highly recommend you solder them as well for reliability.
I've got the lava tightrope on my gigrig g2 board and I love them
NIce!!!
@@VertexEffectsInc And I know you rail against solderless but there working great so far for me .
I have 2319’s right meow, but I’ve been looking for a possible change which brings me here. Really like the sound of the Lava’s though. Thanks!
Great! Glad it clarified it for you. Remember if you use a buffer, it won't really matter if it's 2319 or Lava.
Vertex Effects Yeah that’s basically what I took away from all this. Thanks again!
@@aarons6617 plenty of good ones linked in our description or you can use our DIY kits to build your own cheaply exactly how you want them.
The Best Cable is the one that connects to the Vertex Boost. Once again Mason has slyly demonstrated the need for a good Buffer.
Everyone needs a good buffer! Vertex Boost, or any of the others we recommend! It's gonna preserve your tone!
#4 was a clear standout to me. #5 not too bad either. #1. Was pure mud...
Lol. And guess what cables are on my board... Evidence and 2314! Probably going straight 2314 when I get a loop switcher.
Ian...yes indeed! We did the instrument cable test already in another video. Belden 8412 was the winner :). There are .wav files there too you can download and try for yourself.
@@VertexEffectsInc now that you say that... I totally forgot!
Did you solder the solderless cables like the lava in this video?
As stated in the first minutes, all cables are soldered with the same plugs.
I really like the Lava Tightrope and the Mogami 2314
Both are great, or just throw a buffer in front of either and you're all set!
Hey Mason I’ve always use George L because they’re based out of here in Nashville. However, the 2314 sounded great!....also The buffer advice was very insightful I’m gonna look into the vertex boost.
Very nice! We also have some other buffer recommendations and DIY buffer tutorial we provide that are all great too! See the channel for more details!
Thanks for the videos Mason! Question, Is there a way to DIY daisy chain power cable? I'm out of outputs on my CS12 and could daisy chain some of my low powered analog pedals.
Yes, see our TH-cam channel and our website for diagrams and tutorials on this.
Just started binging this channel. Great stuff and now i have to rearrange part of my pedalboard, so thanks for that :) I'm curious if there is a change in the output buffer in the TU-3 or the TU-3w compared to the TU-2.
Still a BJT buffer, if they changed anything it didn't fix the impedance issues. It's still a 1K output. Maybe tighter tolerances but not a different design.
Excellent resource IMO, so glad you did this. Will be comparing sound files with something like izotope to check my ears as I think I discern varying degrees of clarity in the mids as well and I'm 'cable curious' (pun)
👍👍👍
Super useful comparison! This is going to help a lot deciding which cables might work better for certain applications. I'm curious how the Lava would sound with a bass guitar. You mentioned the low end is a little tighter. I have all 2314 and SP400 on my pedalboard right now, its a hybrid board I use for bass and EG.
I’m glad you dig it. The low end only changed with a poor buffer - once we switched to the high quality buffer, like our boost, then all those changes are mitigated. The idea holds up the same bass or guitar in the low impedance environment.
Loved the George L (1st) and the Lava Craft (close 2nd), very cool video!
Nice! Again, once the buffer is in there, they're all about the same. Be sure to solder them!!!!
WOW !!!! I would LOVE to receive the mogami 2314 patch cable ...
simply because, i've been looking for it for ages ... since i 1st saw TheRiG Doctor tutorial for patch cables ....
but its impossible to find the MOGAMI cables in my country PORTUGAL ..
there's no place that sell it ... and even in Europe i cant find a dealer that would ship to POrtugal !!!!
so it would be a dream came true to me .. if i was lucky enough to be one of the Lucky subscribers to receive it !!!!
Stay Safe & Rock On
Rui from POrtugal
Thanks for watching!!!
Been very happy with Mogami 2314 for a few years now.
I thing the Lava sounds pretty dope, though I think it might be cheaper to build a rig with 2314.
Lots of good options here, use a buffer and the differences don’t matter much!
Great video! I run a Strymon Iridium as my amp last in the chain on my pedalboard at church. Right now just have my Peterson Strobostomp HD tuner first in my chain. It is buffered, but not how good it is? Do you feel I would benefit from having a dedicated buffer at the beginning? Thanks so much!
The Peterson one is okay...as I recall it was a little unloaded compared to a guitar, maybe around 2.2M ohms compared to 1M.
@@VertexEffectsInc Thanks for the quick reply! In your opinion would I be able to tell the difference if I had a dedicated HQ buffer at the beginning of the chain before the Strobostomp HD? (It can be switched to true bypass). I have 11 pedals before the Iridium which is last (including an always on compressor after the Peterson tuner if that helps) Thanks and I will quit bugging after this!
@@kylefuqua2778 I haven't studied this buffer in the Peterson so I can't say specifically. If you did decide to go with a high quality buffer separately from the Tuner, I'd bypass the buffer in the Tuner.
Just put my first board together today. It's missing a pedal or two and the final touches with the wiring but it's great to finally have one. Thanks for the great content. Next step is getting the iron and making cables, love learning new skills. Should have done this years ago. Thanks for the inspiration.
I liked the mogamis and cable uno.
Go for it! I have a great tutorial on soldering Mogami 2314 with Squareplugs on our channel! Check it out!
I have.. and I likely will again when I get the iron. :P
@@JDMVman Amazing! Thanks for watching!
To be quite honest, I thought the signal with the boost turned on was a tiny bit brighter than with the cables bypassed.
Does the boost have a bit of coloration?
Remember, as said in the video, when the buffers are engaged, they no only eliminate the capacitance of the 30 feet of patch cable, but also the cable that connects the Loop Master True Bypass Looper back to the amps, so in the "Bypassed" sound, you get the 10 ft input cable, plus the 10 ft. output cable, and in the engaged signal with the buffer, you're only getting the 10 ft input cable, the rest is conditioned by the buffer. The Boost is totally flat, no EQ, no tone change. What you're hearing is the difference between the output cable being conditioned versus seeing the full 20 ft of cable in the bypassed sound.
Another killer video on cables, I’m still sticking with mogami 2314. It seemed most balanced. ✌🏻
Yes indeed!
This was absolutely amazing! Thanks for this!!
Really informative. Thanks man.
🙏🙏🙏
I like to use to Mogimi 2314 and mogimi 2319 with sp400 cable ends However I prefer the 2319’s because they’re 0.040 thousands of an inch thicker making them clamp in the cable ends better . I was just thinking about this issue when you came out with this episode ….lol ….Great show….. I wish I knew you 30 years ago when I started jammin would have cut out a lot of bullshit… keep on rockin Broski ………..
Thanks for watching!
Mason I love your videos! :) thank you for your contributions
our pleasure!
Mogami for me, but now I'm overthinking it and starting to wonder how many pedals a buffered signal could pass through before needing another buff?
you can watch our buffer videos to get more info on this, but the basic rule is two buffers, input and output. Input buffer is first, that the guitar plugs into directly. The output buffer is last, the last thing the pedalboard sees before a cable brings it back to the amp.
Moral of the story stick a good buffer at the start of your signal chain and negate any issues with cable capacitance!
Yes, and the end too if you're using pedals :)
@@VertexEffectsInc what relative affordable and real estate friendly buffers would you suggest Mason?
@@reaperxi-0382 Truetone is a great deal and they're very small.
@@VertexEffectsInc would you say the truetone is better than maybe the gigrig grumpybot? Also I assume both have the 1MEG input impedance and 100 OHM output?
@@reaperxi-0382 I recommend the Truetone, TheGigRig one is 1K output impedance, 10x higher than the Truetone.
I have all Evidence Audio on my Board , just di y good fiends board with the Mogami 2314 (same switching system etc. ) 1st thing we noticed is just a little less noise/hiss/hum. with high pedals. with etc Mogami 2314
Could be the cable, but could also be 1000 other things in addition to just be soldered. Results might have been similar with soldering the Evidence cable. The cable is fine IMO, it's the solderless that's the issue.
Hey mason, what if I wanted to use my tc polytune 3 with buffer as the beginning of my chain but then also i’m using fuzz face type of circuit. Where should i place the fuzz face? Before or after the tuner? Or change the tuner into true bypass mode?
However, i do have mxr cae buffer at the end of my chain. Will that be good enough?
Thanks
Fuzz Face before the buffer. The CAE Buffer is inferior to the CAE Line Driver/Boost as a Buffer surprisingly. 1K output on the buffer, 100 ohm output if you get the Boost version. Crazy right?
Hey Mason! What if I just have only one or two pedals in front, 10ft cable from my guitar, a patch cable and another 10ft cable from the pedal to the amp? Do I still need to have buffer? Thanks man!
Test it with a true bypass loop and see how much you're loosing
@@VertexEffectsInc thanks man!
Thank for the video, very usefull. With that in mind I want to rebuilt my pedalboard with the Mogami 2314 and use the Mesa Engineering dual buffer.
Thanks for the tutorial
That'll be a great combo!!!