Bad Therapy: Why the Kids Aren't Growing Up
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มี.ค. 2024
- The Michael Shermer Show # (leave a space after # and before number)
In virtually every way that can be measured, Gen Z’s mental health is worse than that of previous generations. Youth suicide rates are climbing, antidepressant prescriptions for children are common, and the proliferation of mental health diagnoses has not helped the staggering number of kids who are lonely, lost, sad and fearful of growing up. What’s gone wrong with America’s youth?
In Bad Therapy, bestselling investigative journalist Abigail Shrier argues that the problem isn’t the kids-it’s the mental health experts. Drawing on hundreds of interviews with child psychologists, parents, teachers, and young people, Shrier explores the ways the mental health industry has transformed the way we teach, treat, discipline, and even talk to our kids. She reveals that most of the therapeutic approaches have serious side effects and few proven benefits. Among her unsettling findings:
talk therapy can induce rumination, trapping children in cycles of anxiety and depression
social Emotional Learning handicaps our most vulnerable children, in both public schools and private
“gentle parenting” can encourage emotional turbulence - even violence - in children as they lash out, desperate for an adult in charge.
Mental health care can be lifesaving when properly applied to children with severe needs, but for the typical child, the cure can be worse than the disease. Bad Therapy is a must - read for anyone questioning why our efforts to bolster America’s kids have backfired - and what it will take for parents to lead a turnaround.
Abigail Shrier received the Barbara Olson Award for Excellence and Independence in Journalism in 2021. Her bestselling book, Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters (2020), was named a “Best Book” by the Economist and the Times. It has been translated into ten languages. Her new book is Bad Therapy: Why the Kids Aren’t Growing Up.
Shermer and Shrier discuss: Irreversible Damage redux: WPATH Files • what view this book for or against • what is the problem to be solved? • theories: coddling, social media, screen time, generations/life history theory • good and bad therapists and therapies • anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, autism • ACE (Adverse Childhood Experience) • trauma, stress, PTSD • anti-fragility and resilience • Goodwill Hunting view of therapy • previous quack therapies and psychological pseudoscience that have plagued psychology and psychiatry.
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7:15 “Set goals, work out, eat right, make your bed.” Such profound JP advice. Many didn't know how 2 wipe their α$s before JP.
one would hope that such superficial advice isn't all he has to offer. I dunno, I only watched a handful of vids feat. Peterson, and I was never inspired to go much deeper into Jordan Land ... but if certain folks derive inspiration to get through their day from him, that's somethign
I watched it till the end which I should have done before making a statement, and do agree that we are over diagnosing and over medicating children. Apart of the problem is with the insurance companies. Therapists are required to give a diagnosis for the family to get reimbursed.
Always informative to listen to a qualified, trained and experienced Psychologist. Dr Shrier, you are great😮😮😮
I do not like people who judge the past as if they had the foresight back then to know the consequences of a particular action. And then write a book "See, Told ya". Darning the pandemic we were in panic mode. The trade off as we saw it was: limit deaths at the price of many kids not getting the educational development they need. Strange how ppl don't get this.
There are people who have as their profession thinking into the future. Your use of the word panic is accurate. It's not a good strategy during crisis.
Why are you interviewing a journalist author who knows nothing about therapy and yet makes false statements about what therapists do and don’t do?
I’m a therapist with 30 plus years of experience and I have to add some considerations to this discussion. I’ll start with some positive comments.
Abigail makes just a couple of valid points, such as the observation that today’s teens talk about their angst more frequently and more openly than previous generations of teens did.
And, yes, less protectiveness and more responsibility for teens would help them grow up with confidence.
However, she generalizes and make absurd statements about what really happens in therapy.
She gives a few examples of how GROUP THERAPY has caused problems for participants. GROUP therapy is very different from individual or family therapy and should not even be compared in terms of when and for whom it’s recommended !
Also, competent therapists absolutely do encourage teens to join teams, clubs at school, community groups, etc.!
As for you, Michael, your experience with marriage counseling was a classic example of what should not happen in couples therapy. It’s unfortunate that you didn’t know that when you were seeking help.
Lastly, don’t confuse the commercials put out by Pharmaceutical companies with what competent therapists recommend. Many if not most of us recommend other non- medical approaches to treatment before trying medication.
Thanks for your consideration of these points of view.
This is my thought from the start. I'm not a therapist, but I work in a school with counsellors. Why should I listen to what a journalist says about counselling? Does she have any science, or just an agenda?
Please answer me this: why do psychologists worry so much when people are forced to become isolated and instead don't help said people to become more confident in standing on their own two feet and then attempt to be part of society? This is the reason why so many people are depressed when isolated, because there was no point in their lives where they needed to act on their own and always had support from others. When you lose that support you realize that society is simply the interactions between individuals. Without individuals, there is no society! And many problems can be solved simply by helping the individual to be truly independent and then part of society
Because they don’t have effective methods to make people stop needing relationships to be psychologically healthy
Some good points raised. But she glossed over some causes of the rise in mental health issues. There have been big societal upheavals over thr last few years. Economic, drug, even covid related. Sure there are probably some bad therapists out there leqding people astray. And sure there are some poor parenting choices and poor efforts to have kids grow up with any adversity. Like i said, good points. But shouldnt gloss over thr true terrible cases and their causes
She also praised that total mook Jordan Peterson.
I can understand that. Everyone has their things that hold their interest. Personally, I found it interesting because of the discussion about how therapy can sometimes go awry. Thank you for your reply, and I hope you have a great weekend.
Some new ideas are good ideas, some new ideas are bad ideas.
It's hard to know which theory is right, if any. People vary so much you risk overtreating and undertreating depending on the individual. Sometimes the problem is another type of condition which doesn't respond to psychotherapy.
Most importantly, the therapist only get paid if they have these clients and young women clients who don’t actually need them are the best clients they always pay and especially the women psychotherapist can just listen to their stories like it’s a TV show. They love it. My mom is a psychotherapist. She’s very successful. She couldn’t care less about psychology or peoples happiness or anything like that. It’s just money to her and she’ll be the first one to admit it. And there are so many like her.
If the supposed 'experts' are getting things so wrong, what exactly are they experts in? And who says so? And - crucial question in as litigious society as the US! - can they be held responsible for 'malpractice', when nobody can agree on what good practice is?
IMO, it is not happiness we should reach for, it’s contentment and peace of mind. Happiness is fleeting and happens with some birthdays, first love’s and other holidays etc.
In addition, we do know that if the trauma happens in infant hood and before age 4 or 5, there is trauma that can be scanned and scene in various locations of the brain; as well as the differences in what hormones, neurotransmitters etc. are doing in the brain of a chronically depressed person, as opposed to one that is not. Robert Sapolsky, whom Michael not long ago interviewed, is a great source of knowledge on the subject.
Well Said ! Big fan of "verbal processing" : putting "thought clouds" into words another might understand so the thought holder can better see them and their logically contradictory AND emotionally true aspects . . . WITH the refrain "When am I PROCESSING (working through) and when am I "WALLOWING" (adding to) the concerns ?
With huge swaths of the population having been so incompletely & suboptimally educed home grown humans, COMBINED with repeatedly traumatized parents, grandparents, & great-grandpatents in massively unnatural ways for WHICH no humans are evolved nor prepared for during the last 150 years, in turn their offspring are a product of ALL that... So, are we really all that surprised 😯 by the sorts of results, outcomes, etc. WHICH we're seeing today, the kinds of things we're confronted with nowadays, and the fallout from ALL of this stuff WHICH is at the SAME time complex and fraught YET horribly simple in some sense (⁉️). IDK, just riffing from MAYBE 30k feet birds eye 👁️ view. 🕊️ 🦅 ✈️
I saw another video on the side effects of mindfulness and meditation. There are lots of areas where people don't track the negative side effects. There may be negative things where people don't track the good side effects too.
46:40 "So if you go to a funeral, you'd rather be the corpse than the eulogist?" :D
Shermer, let Helen Joyce come back to the show and you are forgiven.
27:00 There is a term in law that seems appropriate here it's called "leading the witness".
Don't forget spending 60-70% of your income on shelter(a basic need) may delay reproduction a few years. May even affect how many kids you have!
The only Therapy that DIRECTLY addresses our habits of how we interact with the world... EFT - Emotionally Focused Therapy, based on Attachment Theory.
The vibe I'm getting from some of these videos is an old man complaining "what's wrong with the kids these days???"
I think there might be a misunderstanding! It seems like you're using a playful and creative way of expressing yourself, but I want to make sure I understand what you're trying to communicate.
It seems like you're saying that "homework" has a special meaning for you, related to spending quality time with friends at church. However, I'm a large language model, I don't have personal conversations or relationships, so I'm here to provide information and help with questions to the best of my abilities.
If you have a specific question or topic you'd like to discuss, feel free to ask, and I'll do my best to assist youme up n and then it I was
From a girl with nunns gdwnd
The kids are not okay
*Kids aren't growing up because the powers that be have turned the last couple generations into Teletubbies.*
Wow ... by this comment thread, it looks like an organized attempt to kill Michael's channel. I've seen this kind of shit before.
It's all intentional. Read a history book. Man can be a wolf to man. The monsters haven't changed anything but their costumes.
29:33 - This woman is dumb. We DO know why... Input signals - our senses - can trigger memories... memories triggers Brain Patterns which then induce the "emotions" associated with that "experience". If that pattern / memory is registered as a THREAT... such as an incident of PTSD, then it means that it will trigger the SNS (fight/flight)... for Single-Event Trauma, it can trigger a full episode re-living the experience ...
AND - For those who "don't" get traumatized... I bet, for more than 80%, it's because they already have CPTSD... which basically means that they way they grew up, it gave them a world view that People and the World... is generally UNSAFE. So when Bad Shit happens... it's just Par for the course.
If you don't understand this... then you lived a life where the people around you were able to make you feel SAFE as you were growing up.
It's interesting to compare Gabor Mate's work and Abigail Shrier's new book. I am squarely with Ms. Shrier, but I'm a boomer, so what do I know? ;-)
What's gone wrong with old people in this country? Abigail is a journalist with degrees in philosophy. Great square peg in round hole discussion about children by people who can't remember what it was to be a child. Michael how old are you? Trying to recapture that youth with a 7 year old? Problems with psychology? Sure. Problems with generalizations as well as both of you have evidenced. There seems to be a loud echo in this discussion.
And coming from you Michael, I'm surprised at how vapid this conversation was overall despite the clock being correct a couple of times.
As a skeptic Michael's obvious fanboying and lack of questioning the claims Abigail makes is contrary to what I've learned about skepticism over the years.
Btw I have an MBA so I'm exceptionally qualified to make such generalizations about physcology, psychiatry and sociology as you two. Abigail admits that you Michael have more expertise in these matters as she does. Great expert?
Btw Btw
I've been an atheist 30+ years. My father is the only hero I've ever known. Dawkins is irrelevant in my life. Talk about 'feelings' Michael. Disappointing discussion to say the least.
"Btw I have an MBA so I'm exceptionally qualified to make such generalizations about physcology, psychiatry and sociology as you two." Judging by that hobbled grammar and poor spelling, I think not. Dunning-Kruger much?
She surely knows very little and has very shallow understanding of PTSD and trauma in general.
"The teachers didn't want to go back to work." When did skepticism become the servant of fascism?
Tell us you have no idea what fascism actually is without telling us...
@@chb762 I know what the road to fascism looks like. It looks like baselessly attacking teachers. It looks like mind-reading and impugning motive. Just keep goosestepping down that lane, and you may arrive.
Having Abigail Shrier on AGAIN after her book Irreversible Damage was exposed as bad "science" (i.e. sampling biase: participants were drawn from sites where parents worried about their kids being trans were congregating) is a particularly silly move Michael.
Note that the reviews by "Science-Based Medicine" are themselves exposed as biased and unscientific by Jesse Singal on his substack Singal Minded.
...and when they started talking about how amazing Jordan Peterson is, I tuned out.
*I wouldn't walk across the street to hear him speak on any subject, same with any of the other ''wise'' men who can't see any of the thousands of bible changes that the AC has made using blackmagic in recent years.*
Clean your room.
Yeah me too, I'm stopping the video at that point and went down in the comments, was gonna post why I stopped listening to her when I saw you already mentioned it. Anyone praising Jordan Peterson is just as much a mook as he is.
Yeah I stopped watching at that point, zero credibility is anyone praising Peterson.
You guys are rediculous lol Eventually someone has to tell you Santa Claus isn't real. Get out of The Collective Deception The left is actually quite bad and you should listen to people they tell you not to.
What's wrong with Michael? He's throwing word "shit" like he's in his twenties.
LMAO @ all the triggered lefties losing their shit bc Petereson was mentioned. How intellectually honest of you all.
Shermer joins the Bill Maher zone. Keep being skeptical of wokeness but don't make it a job.
Shermer - you have grown disgustingly greedy with these despicable commercials every four or five minutes.
Jordan Peterson fan? Unsubscribed.
yeah, she is praising him. unsubscribing also. I don't have time for people like this spreading disinformation and praising drug taking narcissists.
@@BigTimeRushFan2112 Real paragon of virtue, aren't you. In possession of a towering intellect as well, no doubt. Good riddance, tribesman.
Thanks for sharing! Best of luck with your moral orthorexia!
Also their another "hero" Elizabeth Loftus was an expert witness in defense of O.J. Simpson, Ted Bundy, Harvey Weinstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Abusive fathers very often use her "false memory" theories to gain custody of kids they abused, claiming the the abuse was made up memory by the alienating mothers. I'm unsubscribing also.
Cry more for everyone