look at the fxr that the dyna replaced. eric buell was part of the fxr development. maybe thats why it has a dual hime joint 3rd mount up top along with the other 2 lower rubber mounts. the fxr started the rubber mount idea
You nailed it. Touring pre Milwakee 8 and Dyna's had the same issue. Appearently Eric Buell designed the bikes with three mounts but Harley decided to cheep out and go with two instead. Not sure that story is true but that's what I heard. New touring and Softail no longer exibit these traits.
My Twin Cam 88 has a death wobble, coming off throttle at 45 is the usual way to induce it. Changing the tyres, wheel alignment, spokes, steering bearings have improved it. HOWEVER, it's simply not good enough for a "premium" product. No other premium brand requires changing the seat, exhaust, having a tune and more to make the motorcycle rideable. After ALL that Harley tax, you are still only left with an average motorcycle. My Springer is a work of art but it's a crap motorcycle. After 3 Harleys I'm moving to Royal Enfields.
@@davidBarrel Hi, yes I'm looking at an RE Scram tomorrow. As for Indian, they don't move me, Harley has killed the cruiser desire for me. Also the price, I can afford it but I'm not spending that sort of money when an RE is fun for a third of the price. Buying a Zontes 310 was a lesson in getting enjoyment from cheaper bikes. I really don't care about the Harley "lifestyle" I find it embarrassing to be around leather clad pirate wannabes.
I'm no critic, but the quality of the content in this video is amazing. Easy to understand, thoroughly explained topic, and entertaining and kept me engaged. I'm excited to watch more of your videos and see your channel grow
IMPORTANT! Do not sit straight up in the air flow at high speeds. If you have a high fairing, alright, otherwise put your belly on the tank and the wobble will stop right away. Even my old 1976 Ducati bevel with rock hard suspension and a superstrong frame would weave a little above 160 kph/100 mph if I sat straight up (almost).
I recently saw an old Test Dunlop had done in the 60s or 70s that also recommended to hug the tank to stop the wobble. Interesting watch: v=z3OQTU-kE2s
I'm sorry, what!? Harley actually decided to mount a swingarm to the engine, but then only support that engine perpendicularly to the direction of swingarm pivot? Dude, engineering students would get laughed out of their tutorials for such a dumb idea. That is beyond hairbrained. Whoever made that call is an idiot, and the engineers who didn't quit over the 2 mount decision should also be ashamed. It's called "minimum constraint design". And when you only have rubber bushings preventing torsion with no additional damper? The system is not properly constrained. Brutal. THanks for the video though! Great stuff.
It’s actually 3 rubber mounts and 3 links that pivot. The problem comes from the rubber mounts having a spring action that gets worse if you let it oscillate
I hate to make it sound simple, but is it possible that the tires are missing counter weights and are not optimally balanced? .... thanks for the product recommendation. I'll confer with Harley first, but probably install the fnt engine mount as indicated in your video. I do know that Harley did not recommend my Superglide to be modified with a lowering kit due to stability concern.
Harley and being behind on tech and safety for the sake of appealing to their audience is a tale that will never change. I'm glad they have done some improvement with the new bike that have the revolution engine.
I agree with what you’re saying but there are 3 mounts on a Dyna. The top being hard mounted and adjustable to align the motor/transmission/rear fork (swingarm) with the frame putting the rear wheel in a level position. The front mount is below the oil filter and inevitably gets oil on it which is a bit caustic to the rubber. I have 2 OEM front mounts that are torn sitting in my garage. Most people never think to look at the mount itself but the OEM rubber tears all the time. There are other serviceable items that are also culprits and videos on how to check them if people don’t buy the service manual. That BBC mount you keep showing on the paper doesn’t really help death wobbles IMO. Another over looked item is the added items like bags or a fairing. These things can add to the issues. I would tell people to test ride before purchasing a Dyna but as of 2017 they are no longer manufactured. Always test ride a bike before purchase. I personally love my Dyna and have only had the Death Wobble problem twice. The first was the neck bearings needed to be replaced the other I traced to the bike needing alignment.
Beats riding a boring slow problematic honda or yamaha. You sound like a Stryker guy.. not everyone wants some slow and quiet Japanese bull crap or uncomfortable sport bike.
@@gh7247Cope harder Milwaukee cult boy. Everyone knows that Hondas and all Japanese are a lot faster and far more reliable than Harleys. And Japanese motorcycle manufacturers don’t need the government to protect them from superior competitors.
@@gh7247Cope harder Milwaukee cult boy. Everyone knows that Hondas and all Japanese are a lot faster and far more reliable than Harleys. And Japanese motorcycle manufacturers don’t need the government to protect them from superior competitors.
I own both Japanese and Harleys.. 2 sportsters, a vs800 intruder, and an 83 Honda cb1100f.. i get more trouble free miles out of that intruder and honda than the other 2 and 3 times the money into those Harleys. I ride all year round too and that intruder is what i use.. Just a more reliable bike in my world.. ive put close to 50k miles myself on that bike, those Harleys barely have half that combined. I still owe a few guys in a local bike club near by some beer for hauling me and those Harleys home every time i took them out past a 100 miles lol.. One thing about a Harley owner is they always have a trailer around..lol
Having owned a Dyna for 25yrs along with other dirt and sport bikes I have experienced this wobble a few times. I always thought it was just me pushing the machine beyond its designed limits due to my track focused racing background, interesting to see it was actually a design error. Still, an enjoyable machine when used within its mellow design envelope.
your information is wrong there is a top engine mount on dynas and check with rack and pull industries on why the don't track straight it comes down to alignment issues better check your info or find someone with more experience
You don't know what you are talking about. The top of the engine has an adjustable length rose jointed bar. A properly aligned Dyna by someone who understands it will not wobble. The tyres need to be serviceable The wheel bearings need to be within spec. The rear wheel has to be aligned as with any motorcycle. The 2 rubber mounts need to be in good order. As you are unaware, the top mount has to be adjusted to true the wheels in the vertical. Just saying, I own a Dyna low rider and a factory workshop manual. I've had GSXR750. FJ1200, FZR1000 and what I can tell anyone is if a Harley doesn't stop,go and handle there are things wrong with it. Usually it's from people who don't know what they are talking about making TH-cam videos on how to do it without understanding why they are wrong.
Because Harley has crap engineers and build's expensive pieces of shit. I would NEVER own a Harley... Ever look closely at a Harley swing arm?? Two twigs attached to a 600lb anchor. Again crap engineering.. Reinforce a solid swing arm would help.
I have a 2005 Dyna low Rider that I absolutely love. However, it is poorly engineered, especially in the handling, the wobble is real and should be respected. I've had multiple motorcycles in the past, the fastest being a Gixxer 1000 which was solid as a block of steel at speeds beyond 180 miles an hour. I wish the same could be said for my harley. I've done a lot to try to mitigate the issue, new motor mounts, the sputhe stabilizer, proper tire pressure, new neck bearing. Next, I'm looking towards fork inserts and new rear shocks, probably new swingarm bushings and wheel bearings as well. If anyone has any input please let me know. Thank you
well done video. i found it easy and enjoyable to watch. but i just thought i'd point out that dynas (and all harleys) do have a top motor mount (8:22). just helped my daughter change hers out on her dyna a while ago. she made a video of it. she also explains some important alignment issues with the dyna relating to this top mount in this video. here's a link to the vid if you care to watch it; th-cam.com/video/tgasrAQKhZE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=gkT6MQBHsBuSfnAw you're correct about the wobble coming from the back wheel but not for the reasons you explained. my daughter has an e-mail address at the bottom of her vid and if you send us an e-mail i can explain it to you in more detail.
I feel like I'm watching fortNine in the early days.....keep em coming and we'll watch, the channel will grow.
That’s a big compliment, thanks!
Dude, I agree 100%… you’ve got a talent for sure. Keep at it. We’ll enjoy it.
look at the fxr that the dyna replaced. eric buell was part of the fxr development. maybe thats why it has a dual hime joint 3rd mount up top along with the other 2 lower rubber mounts. the fxr started the rubber mount idea
You nailed it. Touring pre Milwakee 8 and Dyna's had the same issue. Appearently Eric Buell designed the bikes with three mounts but Harley decided to cheep out and go with two instead. Not sure that story is true but that's what I heard. New touring and Softail no longer exibit these traits.
What year model is the new?
@@JrgsGrg Milwakee 8 came on the touring bike in 2017 and Dyna were replaced by Softails in 2018.
My Twin Cam 88 has a death wobble, coming off throttle at 45 is the usual way to induce it. Changing the tyres, wheel alignment, spokes, steering bearings have improved it. HOWEVER, it's simply not good enough for a "premium" product. No other premium brand requires changing the seat, exhaust, having a tune and more to make the motorcycle rideable. After ALL that Harley tax, you are still only left with an average motorcycle. My Springer is a work of art but it's a crap motorcycle. After 3 Harleys I'm moving to Royal Enfields.
Any move away from Harleys is for the better!😅
Good on you.👍
Hi , are you still moving to R.Enfields? why not Indians?
@@davidBarrel Hi, yes I'm looking at an RE Scram tomorrow. As for Indian, they don't move me, Harley has killed the cruiser desire for me. Also the price, I can afford it but I'm not spending that sort of money when an RE is fun for a third of the price. Buying a Zontes 310 was a lesson in getting enjoyment from cheaper bikes.
I really don't care about the Harley "lifestyle" I find it embarrassing to be around leather clad pirate wannabes.
They got it right with the FXR but cheaped out after that
I'm no critic, but the quality of the content in this video is amazing. Easy to understand, thoroughly explained topic, and entertaining and kept me engaged. I'm excited to watch more of your videos and see your channel grow
Thank you!
IMPORTANT! Do not sit straight up in the air flow at high speeds. If you have a high fairing, alright, otherwise put your belly on the tank and the wobble will stop right away. Even my old 1976 Ducati bevel with rock hard suspension and a superstrong frame would weave a little above 160 kph/100 mph if I sat straight up (almost).
I recently saw an old Test Dunlop had done in the 60s or 70s that also recommended to hug the tank to stop the wobble. Interesting watch: v=z3OQTU-kE2s
That ending with Eric Buell was like the cherry on top!
cheers :)
Hang in there. Love your videos. Insightful analysis and commentary. View count will come.
Thanks! Appreciate it!
I'm sorry, what!? Harley actually decided to mount a swingarm to the engine, but then only support that engine perpendicularly to the direction of swingarm pivot? Dude, engineering students would get laughed out of their tutorials for such a dumb idea.
That is beyond hairbrained. Whoever made that call is an idiot, and the engineers who didn't quit over the 2 mount decision should also be ashamed. It's called "minimum constraint design". And when you only have rubber bushings preventing torsion with no additional damper? The system is not properly constrained.
Brutal. THanks for the video though! Great stuff.
Ok, this was a great video, please do more like this...
If anyone hasn't seen Dyna death wobble videos, check 'em out before considering buying one. It's a pants-loading experience.
I would not particularly want to experience such wobble :)
Great video - look into installing a Sputhe Stabilizer!
Great articulation there my brother
Good video TY
It’s actually 3 rubber mounts and 3 links that pivot. The problem comes from the rubber mounts having a spring action that gets worse if you let it oscillate
08 and 15 Dynas and never had this wobble in the past 10 years with either bike. I guess I’m lucky.
Rubber-mounted engine is the most reasonable cause I've heard.
And they are still charging $20,000 more than actual well engineered motorcycles.
I got new tires I have a 08street bob dyna now when I hit 80 n over I have a wobble why?
Sounds like you're still trying to wheelie your honda navi.
I hate to make it sound simple, but is it possible that the tires are missing counter weights and are not optimally balanced? .... thanks for the product recommendation. I'll confer with Harley first, but probably install the fnt engine mount as indicated in your video. I do know that Harley did not recommend my Superglide to be modified with a lowering kit due to stability concern.
Please don’t take it as a product endorsement, do your own research as to what would work best. Those products were shown just as examples.
Harley and being behind on tech and safety for the sake of appealing to their audience is a tale that will never change. I'm glad they have done some improvement with the new bike that have the revolution engine.
Agree
Try the 1950 sprung hub Triumph Thunderbird 650. It did have a friction steering damper though!
The same with my old Ducati.
As a dyna owner and ambassador, I can without a doubt say that performance, value, and reliability are not important.
I agree with what you’re saying but there are 3 mounts on a Dyna. The top being hard mounted and adjustable to align the motor/transmission/rear fork (swingarm) with the frame putting the rear wheel in a level position. The front mount is below the oil filter and inevitably gets oil on it which is a bit caustic to the rubber. I have 2 OEM front mounts that are torn sitting in my garage. Most people never think to look at the mount itself but the OEM rubber tears all the time. There are other serviceable items that are also culprits and videos on how to check them if people don’t buy the service manual. That BBC mount you keep showing on the paper doesn’t really help death wobbles IMO. Another over looked item is the added items like bags or a fairing. These things can add to the issues. I would tell people to test ride before purchasing a Dyna but as of 2017 they are no longer manufactured. Always test ride a bike before purchase. I personally love my Dyna and have only had the Death Wobble problem twice. The first was the neck bearings needed to be replaced the other I traced to the bike needing alignment.
may they just didnt put a n engine mount at the top of the engine because it transmitter too much vibrations to the rider? comfort over safety
The problem with Harleys can be narrowed down to the rider... Anyone who buys a Harley needs their head checked.. lol
That’s one way to put it :))
Same could be said of someone who doesn’t own a Harley, yet comments on Harley related videos 😂🤡
Beats riding a boring slow problematic honda or yamaha. You sound like a Stryker guy.. not everyone wants some slow and quiet Japanese bull crap or uncomfortable sport bike.
@@gh7247Cope harder Milwaukee cult boy. Everyone knows that Hondas and all Japanese are a lot faster and far more reliable than Harleys. And Japanese motorcycle manufacturers don’t need the government to protect them from superior competitors.
@@gh7247Cope harder Milwaukee cult boy. Everyone knows that Hondas and all Japanese are a lot faster and far more reliable than Harleys. And Japanese motorcycle manufacturers don’t need the government to protect them from superior competitors.
the rear wheel is rubber mounted to the front. that's it. no other bike does this. the bike has a hindge right in the middle.
I own both Japanese and Harleys.. 2 sportsters, a vs800 intruder, and an 83 Honda cb1100f.. i get more trouble free miles out of that intruder and honda than the other 2 and 3 times the money into those Harleys. I ride all year round too and that intruder is what i use.. Just a more reliable bike in my world.. ive put close to 50k miles myself on that bike, those Harleys barely have half that combined. I still owe a few guys in a local bike club near by some beer for hauling me and those Harleys home every time i took them out past a 100 miles lol.. One thing about a Harley owner is they always have a trailer around..lol
Frequency effects.
Resonance frequency.
Having owned a Dyna for 25yrs along with other dirt and sport bikes I have experienced this wobble a few times. I always thought it was just me pushing the machine beyond its designed limits due to my track focused racing background, interesting to see it was actually a design error. Still, an enjoyable machine when used within its mellow design envelope.
For sure, I'd love a Dyna for casual cruising around town for example.
your information is wrong there is a top engine mount on dynas and check with rack and pull industries on why the don't track straight it comes down to alignment issues better check your info or find someone with more experience
There's a video on yt called "Dunlop Wobble & Weave", I reckon it describes the same issue.
so the dyna is essentially a ripstick...the good thing is you can probably make them faster if you twist them right
American Cotarga
You don't know what you are talking about.
The top of the engine has an adjustable length rose jointed bar.
A properly aligned Dyna by someone who understands it will not wobble.
The tyres need to be serviceable
The wheel bearings need to be within spec.
The rear wheel has to be aligned as with any motorcycle.
The 2 rubber mounts need to be in good order.
As you are unaware, the top mount has to be adjusted to true the wheels in the vertical.
Just saying, I own a Dyna low rider and a factory workshop manual.
I've had GSXR750.
FJ1200, FZR1000 and what I can tell anyone is if a Harley doesn't stop,go and handle there are things wrong with it.
Usually it's from people who don't know what they are talking about making TH-cam videos on how to do it without understanding why they are wrong.
Just power out
Harley is about selling outdated technology and design flaws. Changing it, would mean that Americans are able to learn from mistakes made😂
Indian makes good modern bikes
yete un clu-jean 😛
Atat s-a putut :)
Because Harley has crap engineers and build's expensive pieces of shit. I would NEVER own a Harley... Ever look closely at a Harley swing arm?? Two twigs attached to a 600lb anchor. Again crap engineering.. Reinforce a solid swing arm would help.
I have a 2005 Dyna low Rider that I absolutely love. However, it is poorly engineered, especially in the handling, the wobble is real and should be respected. I've had multiple motorcycles in the past, the fastest being a Gixxer 1000 which was solid as a block of steel at speeds beyond 180 miles an hour. I wish the same could be said for my harley. I've done a lot to try to mitigate the issue, new motor mounts, the sputhe stabilizer, proper tire pressure, new neck bearing. Next, I'm looking towards fork inserts and new rear shocks, probably new swingarm bushings and wheel bearings as well. If anyone has any input please let me know. Thank you
it's fine to like bikes that are inherently flawed. I'm guilty of this myself :)
well done video. i found it easy and enjoyable to watch. but i just thought i'd point out that dynas (and all harleys) do have a top motor mount (8:22). just helped my daughter change hers out on her dyna a while ago. she made a video of it. she also explains some important alignment issues with the dyna relating to this top mount in this video. here's a link to the vid if you care to watch it; th-cam.com/video/tgasrAQKhZE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=gkT6MQBHsBuSfnAw you're correct about the wobble coming from the back wheel but not for the reasons you explained. my daughter has an e-mail address at the bottom of her vid and if you send us an e-mail i can explain it to you in more detail.