I wonder if some joker put the name "Yerkes Line" in the hat for what is now the [Queen] Elizabeth Line? Still think they should have retained the CrossRail 1 brand.
CTY might be like the Blues singer, Robert Johnson, of whom only two or maybe three pictures are known to exist. CTY was a shady character, to put it mildly, so it was possibly advantageous not having that many people knowing his fizzog, as it were. I'd still like a t-shirt with his face on, and the word 'DRINK' writ large underneath.
In an attempt to revive his reputation, Yerkes bankedrolled Yerkes Observatory in Chicago which still exists today. In the thirties Einstein visited Yerkes Observatory and there is a photo.
"Taking the tube" still seems to be a popular phrase. There are still many visual suggestions where a train just fits a tunnel which continue the theme. I'm going to guess that from a physics point of view, this "just" fitting the tunnel is "sub-optimal" for health of trains and tunnels (not to mention passengers) by setting up pressure waves and heating the air. Thats also part of the fun.
The Underground eventually embraced the nickname "Tube" and uses it in promotional materials now. Some pedants argue that "Tube" only applies to the deep-level lines, but this isn't how it's usually used.
If you can't put a TfL branding on it then its not been invented yet. Just like a certain Map Man's point about the London Borough of Westminster signage. Turns up in the weirdest of places.
@@dambrooks7578 When the Washington Post described the Elizabeth Line as a new Tube line, I tried arguing that the Elizabeth Line is not the Tube and was overruled by a Londoner. As an outsider I have to bow to their authority.
You know, at this point I write the 'GOD DAMN IT YERKESS' as a running gag instead of genuine anger. Because Jago's video about him recently show him in a better light. BUT DAMN THIS VIDEO SHOVED YERKEES RIGHT BACK AT EVIL CORPORATE TERRITORY .
I must have been following this channel for close to three years now, and still Jago manages to find new things to teach me (I had no idea the TOT fare existed that far back!). Truly the mark of a great educational channel.
An interesting video. I guess UERL was the first company to include the word Underground in its title (previously where the line went was no doubt thought to be of more interest than where it was in relation to the surface). But the term "Underground Railway" was used pretty well from the opening of the Metropolitan Railway. For example an advert for Turnham's Grand Concert Hall in the 'West London Observer' for 13 June 1863 says: "N.B. - The Hall is one minute's walk from the Edgware Road Station of the Underground Railway."
@@highpath4776 Turnham's Grand Concert Hall was renamed in 1864 and became the Metropolitan Music Hall. For me, a concert hall is a place with a large stage suitable for symphony orchestras, whereas a music hall such as Turnham's / The Met typically had a small stage and a pit.
I've never seen a "bad" video from you Jago, but this is probably one of your best. I think it's good every now and then to have a sort of primer for people like me who get totally baffled in the first 30 seconds of which company owned what and where.
Michael Bonavia in 'London Before I Forget' said that the independent 'bus companies could be hailed without a specific stop. He mentions some 'masher' who hailed a 'bus, struck a match against its panelling, lit his 'gasper', waved his thanks to the now furious driver and walked away.
As a younger man working as a draughtsman, one of my older colleagues had worked for Harry Beck - as you will know the designer of the classic Tube map. You will also know that the type face for the Tube (Underground) is also special - from memory I think it's called 'Transport'. Anyway, my older colleague (this was in the early 1970's) could still reproduce that typeface - freehand. He was as you might expect a superb draughtsman.
The typeface used by London Underground is called Johnston; it was designed by Edward Johnston in 1913 in response to a commission from Frank Pick of UERL. My better half is a typographer and can tell you lots more should you be interested.
I was not aware that Pirates made up a significantly large proportion of the London populous at the turn of the last century, significant enough for their own public transport network of Pirate Busses!! 😊
Well known for pulling alongside other modes of public transportation and threatening boarding action if the passengers valuables were not handed over.
Oooooh this is the fist time i really understood that the line truly started working like an integrated network while they were still separate for-profit companies conspiring like a cartel.
Many ideas about marketing, branding, and user experience that we take for granted today seem to have been pioneered by public transport systems, and especially railways. See also British Rail in the 1960s. And yet every book and training course about marketing and advertising drones on about Apple and Nike ...
So much of big business was pioneered by the railroads, because they were the biggest businesses ever to come around. Everything from telegraphic communication, standardization of mechanical parts and materials, and even the concept of time zones.
Ref;Detroit United,and historical side! That system also starred out with horsecars,omnibuses,and dirt roads,which the transit operators had to pave! There were interurban lines,going to Ann Arbor,Jackson,Pontiac,and Port Huron,in other words,all the points of the compass! With interline connections,you could travel to Chicago,Indianapolis,Cincinnati,to name a few notable points,so when Stanley got to the Underground,his knowledge of interlinking was vast and deep! The New Jersey lines were also interlined,and the current New Jersey Transit operations still reflect that! Much history,and too little time,and space to lay it all out! As with the London lines,100+ years of history,and no way to condense that intertwined threads,in any coherent manner! Thank you,Jago,your sense of history and personalities is spot on,and I hope,that my contribution opens some people's eyes,as to how many movers and shakers make the world go round 😀! Thank you 😇 😊!
I wonder if Stanley was frustrated with the other railway companies in london, on the other hand he built on the running line relationships to get the Bakerloo over the LNWR to Watford, the Central to work with the GWR and GE lines for the post war expansion to fulfill, and the District and Southern thrashing out of rights and new build idea. However he too the profits of the buses to subsidise the underground services (as the constant investment needed in the underground never was paid back from the strict fares revenue arising, (and the Met's land owning profits mainly went to their own speculating directors)
I would love to have been a pirate bus driver. Driver Jack Sparrow would I have been coursing the seven streets of Peckham Rye looking for loot to hoard and rival buses and trams to board.
Thanks for informing me about Charles Tyson Yerkes Jago. I have never heard his name mentioned before in any of your previous films about the Tube. Its come as a "complete" surprise to me 😮😂😊
Fun fact: In Mexico City is all the way around: we used to have a proper bus company until the 90s (Ruta 100) and now we have the dangerous buses that race each other (Peseros, Microbuses). PD: I love your videos, Jago 😊🎉
This was a fascinating bit of history that I was unaware of. It almost seems unthinkable that modern companies would co-operated today to form a coherent structure like the proto-LUL. I mean there are still many parts of the country where interchanges between trains or buses leads to long waits for the next transport to arrive.
@@hb1338 The price-fixing on fares certainly looks like a cartel designed to rip off passengers, but then you've got the through-tickets which are extremely helpful to passengers and probably saved them money. On balance, if a similar arrangement was to happen today I'd probably say it should be allowed but watched very closely.
@@hb1338 The trouble is however, Cartels & Monopolies are the only way a Transport Network can be made profitable. In fact many businesses cannot make serious profits without establishing a cartel or monopoly.
Here’s to many more years 🥂 to the London Underground 🚊. Here’s to tube lines past, present and future! To the London Underground 🚊: *Keep ‘em tube trains 🚋 and lines running 🏃♀️!* To Mr. Jago Hazzard: *Keep up ⬆️ da good work; keep ‘em ‘Tales from the Tube 🚇 comin’ in!* …..and now, let me quote that well-known song 🎶 from ‘The Jam’: _I'm going underground (going underground)_ _Well, if the tube 🚇 trains 🚋 arrive with their screeching sound_ _Going underground (going underground)_ _Well, let the ‘Tales From the Tube 🚇’ keep comin’ onto TH-cam_
@@JP_TaVeryMuch Fair point. I guess I meant nerds who are motivated by love and enthusiasm for their chosen field, rather than the gracelessly techie ones. Probably a bit foolishly idealistic of me.
@@JP_TaVeryMuch Nerdery has triumphed in the world of computing because the directors refused to (or were perhaps unable to) talk to the people who knew how computers worked.
Bit of an obscure question, but I’ve been wondering at what point was the Underground logo was simplified to the one we have today? It’s pretty common to see that older version of logo around the network with the dotted lines above and below the text with larger U and D letters, but obviously that isn’t the current branding TfL use. Seems like it was changed some time in the 70’s or 80’s? Maybe earlier in the 60’s?
At least it''s still relatively consisted compared with Paris that got from Métropolitain to Métro to just M on it's signs, and you can still find all three kinds on various stations.
@@kbtred51 Possibly, Nobody is sure at this point. On one hand it's a logical conclusion, and the French would be last to admit they copied British in any way. On the other hand, using the word "Metropolitan" and It's local language variation for a railway meant to serve a metropolitan area is not exactly rocket sience.
Hi Jago from Spain. A new video from you always makes my day. Thank you. A pity you didn't include the outro of the LT&S which used to run through to and from Charing Cross.
@@highpath4776 It did. The South Eastern went to Charing Cross main line, and the District, Northern (originally Hampstead Tube) and Bakerloo to the Underground atatoin.
@@norbitonflyer5625 I knew the district ran over the LT&S metals , but I didnt know their trains did the reverse journey (to Ealing Broadway ?), I was trying to think of some odd reversing set of lines into Charing Cross Main Line . The first comment implied the LT&S terminated at Charing Cross(Embankment today) and I could not think of terminating bays or loco etc reversal locations
Very pirartey - and they destroyed long-running companies in the process. The original rules regarding Deregulated buses stated that you couldn't run a bus for 42 days after registration "for hire or reward": what Stagecoach did (in Lancaster, Barrow, Darlington and others) was to register a complete network to run a couple of minutes ahead of the existing operator then, when the 42 day period started, run the buses for free (not "for hire or reward"), using their national financial reserves - in all cases, the incumbent operator went bust within a week, they bought the assets for next to nothing, and moved in. Sadly, this sort of thing was just too common in the 1986-1996 period (a bit like the building of railway lines purely to scare incumbents into buying them out) - a couple of changes to the legislation would have done away with most of the piracy.
In South Wales in the 1970s, there was a bus company called Jones that ran a service from Newport up the eastern valley to Blaenavon. It never published a schedule, but always arrived a couple of minutes before the nationalised service (Red and White / National Welsh), thereby stealing all their customers; its fares were much lower than its competitors. There were stories of skullduggery in Newport bus station which allowed the Jones bus to leave just before the "official" service.
After many years of loving this channel I have just realised that Charles Tyson Yerkes is Lyle Langley, who sold monorails to Ogden, Brockway, and North Haverbrook; and he put them on the map! To be fair Yerkes just stole money and gave London a transport system. He did not create a system that needed a concrete donut to save a life.
I used to know a Bow Bells Londoner who blatantly refused to use the tube. I think this was because his then home was on the Northern Line, which he held with some justification, to be unsafe at that time.
If he meant the Northern Line was unsafe due to criminal activity, I can relate to that up to the early nineties. But if he meant unsafe from a physical/ logistical/ engineering point of view, then I'd say that was in his head.
Wow, despite living in what's still the Public Service Corporation's service area, and thinking I knew about its transport history, I never knew Albert Stanley joined at it's 1903 creation, and left having created an organized nearly statewide operation of 1,000 route miles.
As a person born in Chicago , I apologize for Mr. Y . It’s the Chicago way . Eternal corruption and slimy business to this day . The dead still vote here , eternal life in a way .
Worth finding (alas I sold mine) Clem Preece's autobiography "Wheels to the West". Some 1920s operators outside of the combine after WW1 were quite respectable, Birch Brothers for example, which after LPTB took over their North London bus services ran commuter coaches from Baldock and Hitchin, in part competiton but different route , to United Counties and Green Line for example. Thomas Tilling of course was long established but operated eventually in a financial pool with London General , Dangerfield was taken over and he became a manager for LGOC and Hillman somewhat likewise when acquired by the LPTB. Pre WW1 The London Motor Omnibus Company was just bought out by the General, which had fewer motor buses of its own at that time, and brought with it the Chassis Building AEC company Vanguard had established. The National Steam Omnibus Company , associated with Clarkson was a bit of a failure but spread out of London enough with motor buses to get railway company investment and LGOC outer north london operating "franchise" to eventually create Eastern National, United Counties and the Western/Southern National Companies.
@@julianellis8200 prob more than I sold it for ! I have a rather sad tale of the publishers, Transport and Travel Limited as they eventually ceased publishing Coaching Journal and Bus Review that I subscribed to back in the 1980s
More fascinating material. They certainly seem to have managed a remarkable turnround from the near-bankrupt state in which Yerkes had left them when he conveniently died - and for all the previous mentions of him, I hadn't realised he'd made Philadelphia, Chicago AND New York too hot to handle him! The Central London I thought had been more profitable initially despite the 2d fare, which was why people were keen to invest in the other new lines - but maybe bus competition began eating into their profits after the initial success?
My Gran used to call it the Undies (cos she couldnt say "London Underground" as a child but "Lundy Undy") with the West Undies and the East Undies etc.
I could be mistaken, but I have an inkling that RobsLondon, in his two videos on the Metropolitan Railway, dug up a Victorian newspaper article which referred to the Metropolitan as "the underground railway". Not sure, but I desperately need an antidote to that mugshot of Chas. Yerkes. Can't have been HIS idea.
The chocolate express (as shown) is the only pirate bus in the TfL museum. These operators themselves preferred to call themselves Independent, and saw themselves as stoutly fighting the monopoly of the Combine which kept fares high and services poor. Well the high minded ones did ...
Isnt that Central one a non LGOC one (Or was that when LGOC had "route names" or Service Names ? ) That was one of the Leyland Buses restored by the chap that wrote "The Leyland Man" (I have forgotten his name) . Strictly Thomas Tilling was Independent ,but later worked motor omnibuses by agreement with the LGOC
The Madrid Metro logo looks very similar to the London Underground logo. Same colours and general layout, but a red diamond instead of a circle. Was this inspired by the London logo?
Possibly... but it's worth noting that for a period the Metropolitan used a logo which had a bar and lozenge. The lozenge was sometimes red or green and in fact there's a replica of this on the westbound platform at Moorgate on the Circle/H&S/Metropolitan lines.
Hi Jago: I believe most people still refer to The Underground as the 'Tube'. As I'm sure you know, Cockneys and some others may refer to it as 'The Oxo' or 'The Oxo Cube'. Perhaps mostly North American visitors might even call it the 'Subway'? Whatever you call it, it is, for the most part, a very good public transit system, although sadly lacking in reduced fares for seniors who live outside the London area, and who do not hold a free travel card.
If health and economics collide favourably on the 6th April , I should have a couple of London Rail and Bus Books on sale at the Theydon Bois Toy and (Model) Train Collectors Fair at the village hall at 7pm, it will still be daylight to get there, but you need your torch to get back as Essex council are saving on the leccy by turning off the streetlights. There should also be a couple of vendors of Hornby (original) O Guage and Dublo models plus plenty of road vehicles for ones model railway layout/s. The books might include one on the last days of the General and one on Underground publicity,etc, design.
So they all met up and agreed to raise their prices? I can appreciate that we need public transport, and if it had all gone pear-shaped I suppose we would have been worse off, but isn't that about as illegal as a meeting gets? So, nobody made a profit until the cartel was firmly established, but it all turned out OK in the end. I'm surprised it was allowed - the Victorian governments were so hot on trying to prevent railway price-fixing, but I guess the turn of the century and the age of Standard Oil and Rockefeller brought new thinking to Westminster.
wow, i never knew pirate busses were a real thing. i only ever heard about them on "The Goodies"... where they had to operate outside the five mile limit (offshore)
It might be worth doing a vid on all the Americans that have come to run London's Transport, and all the London Transport Managers that have gone the other way to run New Yorks.
That was brilliantly laid out, what an excellent video. A pleasure to watch, as always! However, it leaves me with the thought - have you already done a piece on when they (and from the looks of some of the material in this vid, they means 'ordinary everyday folk') started calling it the Tube? From that poster which has (Tube) on it, it's clear that that's what everyone called it, regardless of what the lines called themselves. I call it that. This is Tales from the Tube! How long has it been totally tubular?
What this video shows is that Public Transport can only work (& stand any chance of making serious money) by being run as a Monopoly or Cartel. Something that Governments of late deliberately like to forget.
![TEEDEE TADA - DIAMOND NARAKORN X LEGO LYKN [Special Dance Performance]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QgtZedFeumA/mqdefault.jpg)
It's not a proper video without Charles Yerkes. Thanks Jago.
I miss the middle name being referenced
@@my__socrates__note Didn't he go on to be a boxer !!!
i am almost certain i saw him on a poster (probably to celebrate the 160) somewhere, i dont know if Jago has found it yet.
Charles Tyson Yerkes? DRINK!
Charles Yerkes is the man.
Geoff Marshall and Jago Hazzard videos are the citations I use when talking about the Underground.
I've watched and read a lot on the Underground over the years...but even when I know something I still thoroughly enjoy your way of presenting it.
Albert Stanley was the Jago Hazzard of his time. Nice to learn about a transit nerd.
Your Albert Stanley to my lord Ashfield.
Your Albert Stanley to my Charles Yerkies [sp]
Your Albert Stanley to the Fat Controller
Charles Yerkes is now a brand in himself. However, I still would like different pictures of the Man. Excellent video as always.
I wonder if some joker put the name "Yerkes Line" in the hat for what is now the [Queen] Elizabeth Line?
Still think they should have retained the CrossRail 1 brand.
CTY might be like the Blues singer, Robert Johnson, of whom only two or maybe three pictures are known to exist. CTY was a shady character, to put it mildly, so it was possibly advantageous not having that many people knowing his fizzog, as it were.
I'd still like a t-shirt with his face on, and the word 'DRINK' writ large underneath.
In an attempt to revive his reputation, Yerkes bankedrolled Yerkes Observatory in Chicago which still exists today. In the thirties Einstein visited Yerkes Observatory and there is a photo.
I believe they only have the one picture,his mugshot from prison !!
@@emjackson2289except it was actually Crossrail 2. Thameslink did it first.
"Taking the tube" still seems to be a popular phrase. There are still many visual suggestions where a train just fits a tunnel which continue the theme. I'm going to guess that from a physics point of view, this "just" fitting the tunnel is "sub-optimal" for health of trains and tunnels (not to mention passengers) by setting up pressure waves and heating the air. Thats also part of the fun.
The Underground eventually embraced the nickname "Tube" and uses it in promotional materials now. Some pedants argue that "Tube" only applies to the deep-level lines, but this isn't how it's usually used.
@@MattMcIrvinthe Tube has just become a very London idiom for travelling about the city hasn't it? I love it entirely 😊
If you can't put a TfL branding on it then its not been invented yet.
Just like a certain Map Man's point about the London Borough of Westminster signage. Turns up in the weirdest of places.
@@dambrooks7578 When the Washington Post described the Elizabeth Line as a new Tube line, I tried arguing that the Elizabeth Line is not the Tube and was overruled by a Londoner. As an outsider I have to bow to their authority.
@@JP_TaVeryMuch But Thameslink is the same. I've never heard that called the Tube.
You know, at this point I write the 'GOD DAMN IT YERKESS' as a running gag instead of genuine anger. Because Jago's video about him recently show him in a better light. BUT DAMN THIS VIDEO SHOVED YERKEES RIGHT BACK AT EVIL CORPORATE TERRITORY .
Well, he was American and some of their business owners are/were evil.
@illyasvielemiya9059 nice profile picture! Where's it from?
In my neck of the woods, pirate buses are still a thing. It’s also majorly inconvenient for pedestrians and other drivers alike.
What are pirate buses?
Where is that?
@@s125ish it's in the video 2.40.
And they usually run in the profitable peak periods, and leave the off peak period passengers to the regular public transport.
Is that Diamond by any chance?
I must have been following this channel for close to three years now, and still Jago manages to find new things to teach me (I had no idea the TOT fare existed that far back!). Truly the mark of a great educational channel.
An interesting video. I guess UERL was the first company to include the word Underground in its title (previously where the line went was no doubt thought to be of more interest than where it was in relation to the surface). But the term "Underground Railway" was used pretty well from the opening of the Metropolitan Railway. For example an advert for Turnham's Grand Concert Hall in the 'West London Observer' for 13 June 1863 says: "N.B. - The Hall is one minute's walk from the Edgware Road Station of the Underground Railway."
I like grand concert halls
@@highpath4776 Turnham's Grand Concert Hall was renamed in 1864 and became the Metropolitan Music Hall. For me, a concert hall is a place with a large stage suitable for symphony orchestras, whereas a music hall such as Turnham's / The Met typically had a small stage and a pit.
I've never seen a "bad" video from you Jago, but this is probably one of your best. I think it's good every now and then to have a sort of primer for people like me who get totally baffled in the first 30 seconds of which company owned what and where.
No,just plenty of bad comments from people like me !!
but no thumbnail?
Michael Bonavia in 'London Before I Forget' said that the independent 'bus companies could be hailed without a specific stop. He mentions some 'masher' who hailed a 'bus, struck a match against its panelling, lit his 'gasper', waved his thanks to the now furious driver and walked away.
As a younger man working as a draughtsman, one of my older colleagues had worked for Harry Beck - as you will know the designer of the classic Tube map. You will also know that the type face for the Tube (Underground) is also special - from memory I think it's called 'Transport'. Anyway, my older colleague (this was in the early 1970's) could still reproduce that typeface - freehand. He was as you might expect a superb draughtsman.
The typeface used by London Underground is called Johnston; it was designed by Edward Johnston in 1913 in response to a commission from Frank Pick of UERL. My better half is a typographer and can tell you lots more should you be interested.
@@hb1338 Thank you for the correction. I shall not forget again....🙂
@@stevenfarrall3942 "Transport" is the font used on road signs in the UK, so you were on the right route, but wrong method of travel!
@@steverob5 Thank you. I could not remember precisely where I had heard it before.
'New Johnston'
Basically 'Arial' but with a diamond instead of a dot atop the lower case 'i'
Very jealousy guarded!
I was not aware that Pirates made up a significantly large proportion of the London populous at the turn of the last century, significant enough for their own public transport network of Pirate Busses!! 😊
Arrr...it be a thing, me hearty.
Well known for pulling alongside other modes of public transportation and threatening boarding action if the passengers valuables were not handed over.
@@IndieGoFigure Now they just do that at the ticket office before boarding the train! 😊
populus Arr! buses Arr!
largest group of pirates out side of "Port Royal" Baxter me harty... arrr
Oooooh this is the fist time i really understood that the line truly started working like an integrated network while they were still separate for-profit companies conspiring like a cartel.
So, does that mean we thank Yerkes for the name "Underground" as well? XD
Great Vid Jago 👍
I had thought recently that you had not mentioned Yerkes for a while. You made up for it in this one.
Many ideas about marketing, branding, and user experience that we take for granted today seem to have been pioneered by public transport systems, and especially railways. See also British Rail in the 1960s. And yet every book and training course about marketing and advertising drones on about Apple and Nike ...
Like all the matching burgundy color tile Met stations with similar arches.
So much of big business was pioneered by the railroads, because they were the biggest businesses ever to come around. Everything from telegraphic communication, standardization of mechanical parts and materials, and even the concept of time zones.
0:56 Points at the screen in the style of Leonardo Di Capio. "It's that man again"
A nicely roundel explanation of the development of the underground railways of London.
Ref;Detroit United,and historical side! That system also starred out with horsecars,omnibuses,and dirt roads,which the transit operators had to pave! There were interurban lines,going to Ann Arbor,Jackson,Pontiac,and Port Huron,in other words,all the points of the compass! With interline connections,you could travel to Chicago,Indianapolis,Cincinnati,to name a few notable points,so when Stanley got to the Underground,his knowledge of interlinking was vast and deep! The New Jersey lines were also interlined,and the current New Jersey Transit operations still reflect that! Much history,and too little time,and space to lay it all out! As with the London lines,100+ years of history,and no way to condense that intertwined threads,in any coherent manner! Thank you,Jago,your sense of history and personalities is spot on,and I hope,that my contribution opens some people's eyes,as to how many movers and shakers make the world go round 😀! Thank you 😇 😊!
I wonder if Stanley was frustrated with the other railway companies in london, on the other hand he built on the running line relationships to get the Bakerloo over the LNWR to Watford, the Central to work with the GWR and GE lines for the post war expansion to fulfill, and the District and Southern thrashing out of rights and new build idea. However he too the profits of the buses to subsidise the underground services (as the constant investment needed in the underground never was paid back from the strict fares revenue arising, (and the Met's land owning profits mainly went to their own speculating directors)
Charles Tyson Yerkies “cue error tone”
I would love to have been a pirate bus driver. Driver Jack Sparrow would I have been coursing the seven streets of Peckham Rye looking for loot to hoard and rival buses and trams to board.
Sunday afternoon. A nice cup of tea, and Jago talking about Charles Yerkes. I am now completely relaxed. Thank you.
Ah, the return of the Yerkes drinking game!
Thanks again jago for another informative video 👍
Thanks for informing me about Charles Tyson Yerkes Jago. I have never heard his name mentioned before in any of your previous films about the Tube. Its come as a "complete" surprise to me 😮😂😊
The “Pirate Buses” sound kinda fun - Oyster cards not accepted five pieces of silver only
Fun fact: In Mexico City is all the way around: we used to have a proper bus company until the 90s (Ruta 100) and now we have the dangerous buses that race each other (Peseros, Microbuses).
PD: I love your videos, Jago 😊🎉
This Yerkes chap sounds interesting, you should talk about him more often.
That train in the first shot was winking at me !!
I really liked this ‘origin-al’ tale from the Tube.
This was a fascinating bit of history that I was unaware of. It almost seems unthinkable that modern companies would co-operated today to form a coherent structure like the proto-LUL. I mean there are still many parts of the country where interchanges between trains or buses leads to long waits for the next transport to arrive.
LPTC was dangerously close to a cartel, which has long been illegal / undesirable in this country.
@@hb1338 The price-fixing on fares certainly looks like a cartel designed to rip off passengers, but then you've got the through-tickets which are extremely helpful to passengers and probably saved them money. On balance, if a similar arrangement was to happen today I'd probably say it should be allowed but watched very closely.
@@hb1338 The trouble is however, Cartels & Monopolies are the only way a Transport Network can be made profitable. In fact many businesses cannot make serious profits without establishing a cartel or monopoly.
Here’s to many more years 🥂 to the London Underground 🚊. Here’s to tube lines past, present and future!
To the London Underground 🚊: *Keep ‘em tube trains 🚋 and lines running 🏃♀️!*
To Mr. Jago Hazzard: *Keep up ⬆️ da good work; keep ‘em ‘Tales from the Tube 🚇 comin’ in!*
…..and now, let me quote that well-known song 🎶 from ‘The Jam’:
_I'm going underground (going underground)_
_Well, if the tube 🚇 trains 🚋 arrive with their screeching sound_
_Going underground (going underground)_
_Well, let the ‘Tales From the Tube 🚇’ keep comin’ onto TH-cam_
Interesting how the 2 icons of London (Selfridges and the Underground) were both founded by Americans.
Only two icons? What about all the other well known things about London that weren't founded by Americans?!
Interesting to learn about Albert Stanley. Maybe we could do worse than let nerds run things again. And not just public transport.
@@JP_TaVeryMuch Fair point. I guess I meant nerds who are motivated by love and enthusiasm for their chosen field, rather than the gracelessly techie ones. Probably a bit foolishly idealistic of me.
@@JP_TaVeryMuch Nerdery has triumphed in the world of computing because the directors refused to (or were perhaps unable to) talk to the people who knew how computers worked.
Different operators cooperating on pricing…sounds fare enough, and just the ticket
Been sat here waiting - did you forget to put your clocks forward?
Bit of an obscure question, but I’ve been wondering at what point was the Underground logo was simplified to the one we have today? It’s pretty common to see that older version of logo around the network with the dotted lines above and below the text with larger U and D letters, but obviously that isn’t the current branding TfL use. Seems like it was changed some time in the 70’s or 80’s? Maybe earlier in the 60’s?
I think it was around the time of Nationalisation , 1948 , but more so the block simplification of the executive come 1970s
At least it''s still relatively consisted compared with Paris that got from Métropolitain to Métro to just M on it's signs, and you can still find all three kinds on various stations.
Like the rest of this video that is covered in great detail in several different books about the Tube.
@@mancubwwa Is Paris named after/for London Metropolitan? and thus all other Metros?
@@kbtred51 Possibly, Nobody is sure at this point. On one hand it's a logical conclusion, and the French would be last to admit they copied British in any way. On the other hand, using the word "Metropolitan" and It's local language variation for a railway meant to serve a metropolitan area is not exactly rocket sience.
I call it the tube, always have, right from as a young boy in Woodford and travelling on the Central Line with my parents.
Hi Jago from Spain. A new video from you always makes my day. Thank you. A pity you didn't include the outro of the LT&S which used to run through to and from Charing Cross.
thought that went only.mainly to Fenchurch Street
@@highpath4776 It did. The South Eastern went to Charing Cross main line, and the District, Northern (originally Hampstead Tube) and Bakerloo to the Underground atatoin.
@@norbitonflyer5625 I knew the district ran over the LT&S metals , but I didnt know their trains did the reverse journey (to Ealing Broadway ?), I was trying to think of some odd reversing set of lines into Charing Cross Main Line . The first comment implied the LT&S terminated at Charing Cross(Embankment today) and I could not think of terminating bays or loco etc reversal locations
Not in London but I've heard that "Stagecoach" group had some rather piratey methods during UK local bus deregulation starting in the 1980s
Up here in Newcastle and North Durham Go-Ahead was by far the best pirate bus operator.
Very pirartey - and they destroyed long-running companies in the process. The original rules regarding Deregulated buses stated that you couldn't run a bus for 42 days after registration "for hire or reward": what Stagecoach did (in Lancaster, Barrow, Darlington and others) was to register a complete network to run a couple of minutes ahead of the existing operator then, when the 42 day period started, run the buses for free (not "for hire or reward"), using their national financial reserves - in all cases, the incumbent operator went bust within a week, they bought the assets for next to nothing, and moved in. Sadly, this sort of thing was just too common in the 1986-1996 period (a bit like the building of railway lines purely to scare incumbents into buying them out) - a couple of changes to the legislation would have done away with most of the piracy.
In South Wales in the 1970s, there was a bus company called Jones that ran a service from Newport up the eastern valley to Blaenavon. It never published a schedule, but always arrived a couple of minutes before the nationalised service (Red and White / National Welsh), thereby stealing all their customers; its fares were much lower than its competitors. There were stories of skullduggery in Newport bus station which allowed the Jones bus to leave just before the "official" service.
@@hb1338 Was that Jones of Aberbeeg?
I've watched quite a few of your videos and this is the best by far.
Yerkies and jiggery pokery are synonymous.😊
Another lovely, informative video of the Tube! Thank you, Jago!
"And what rough beast it's hour come round at last - slouches towards Bethlehem to be born!" - Nope, it's just Charles Tyson Yerkes!
You teach better history than school! 😂
Great video, was getting Yerkes withdrawl, so can have a toast today.
After many years of loving this channel I have just realised that Charles Tyson Yerkes is Lyle Langley, who sold monorails to Ogden, Brockway, and North Haverbrook; and he put them on the map! To be fair Yerkes just stole money and gave London a transport system. He did not create a system that needed a concrete donut to save a life.
I was wondering when Charles Tyson Yerkes will make an appearance again and here he is!
I used to know a Bow Bells Londoner who blatantly refused to use the tube. I think this was because his then home was on the Northern Line, which he held with some justification, to be unsafe at that time.
If he meant the Northern Line was unsafe due to criminal activity, I can relate to that up to the early nineties. But if he meant unsafe from a physical/ logistical/ engineering point of view, then I'd say that was in his head.
Wow, despite living in what's still the Public Service Corporation's service area, and thinking I knew about its transport history, I never knew Albert Stanley joined at it's 1903 creation, and left having created an organized nearly statewide operation of 1,000 route miles.
“Swift and sure” 😂
As a person born in Chicago , I apologize for Mr. Y . It’s the Chicago way . Eternal corruption and slimy business to this day . The dead still vote here , eternal life in a way .
Alas, so it seems!
How about a "Yerkesometer" in the corner for every video that features the Dark Lord?..Another top vid, Jago!
We need a Yerkies counter for you videos
Pirate buses- an image of buses with skull and crossbow flags and cannons springs to mind.
skull and crossbones
My grandfather worked at 55 Broadway and used to tell me tales of pirate buses. Properly researched, it would make a most interesting video, Jago.
Worth finding (alas I sold mine) Clem Preece's autobiography "Wheels to the West". Some 1920s operators outside of the combine after WW1 were quite respectable, Birch Brothers for example, which after LPTB took over their North London bus services ran commuter coaches from Baldock and Hitchin, in part competiton but different route , to United Counties and Green Line for example. Thomas Tilling of course was long established but operated eventually in a financial pool with London General , Dangerfield was taken over and he became a manager for LGOC and Hillman somewhat likewise when acquired by the LPTB. Pre WW1 The London Motor Omnibus Company was just bought out by the General, which had fewer motor buses of its own at that time, and brought with it the Chassis Building AEC company Vanguard had established. The National Steam Omnibus Company , associated with Clarkson was a bit of a failure but spread out of London enough with motor buses to get railway company investment and LGOC outer north london operating "franchise" to eventually create Eastern National, United Counties and the Western/Southern National Companies.
@@highpath4776 that book is for sale on abe books
@@julianellis8200 prob more than I sold it for ! I have a rather sad tale of the publishers, Transport and Travel Limited as they eventually ceased publishing Coaching Journal and Bus Review that I subscribed to back in the 1980s
Oh hello...It's another Underground Vid from Jago.
(Grabs bottle of gin and preps shot glass) - Yerkes is Bound to come up!
It's STILL the Underground and not the Tube!
Excellent video! Many thanks.
Loving the concept of the pirate bus, too.
It’s that Charles Yerkes time of the week again - all is right with the world.
"Pirate buses", huh? Now I've got an image of Captain Jack Sparrow driving a bus... 😅
I thought of Captain Pugwash.
@@AtheistOrphan I know about Pugwash, but who was this fellow 'Sparrow'?
@@roboftherock - A character in a film, played by Johnny Depp. Surprised you haven’t heard of him.
More fascinating material. They certainly seem to have managed a remarkable turnround from the near-bankrupt state in which Yerkes had left them when he conveniently died - and for all the previous mentions of him, I hadn't realised he'd made Philadelphia, Chicago AND New York too hot to handle him! The Central London I thought had been more profitable initially despite the 2d fare, which was why people were keen to invest in the other new lines - but maybe bus competition began eating into their profits after the initial success?
I think the 50p "magic bus" competing with GMPTE in Manchester during the 90s could well be a modern version of a "pirate bus".
My Gran used to call it the Undies (cos she couldnt say "London Underground" as a child but "Lundy Undy") with the West Undies and the East Undies etc.
Hope she travelled in clean undies.
I drink when I see the words "Charles Yerkes"
I could be mistaken, but I have an inkling that RobsLondon, in his two videos on the Metropolitan Railway, dug up a Victorian newspaper article which referred to the Metropolitan as "the underground railway". Not sure, but I desperately need an antidote to that mugshot of Chas. Yerkes. Can't have been HIS idea.
Jago's dead on time with this Sunday midday broadcast, unlike me !
Thanks for another cracking vlog very interesting story and well presented 😊
A great looking back at the forward thinking of the past.
As always, another interesting video.Greetings from Australia.
The chocolate express (as shown) is the only pirate bus in the TfL museum. These operators themselves preferred to call themselves Independent, and saw themselves as stoutly fighting the monopoly of the Combine which kept fares high and services poor. Well the high minded ones did ...
Isnt that Central one a non LGOC one (Or was that when LGOC had "route names" or Service Names ? ) That was one of the Leyland Buses restored by the chap that wrote "The Leyland Man" (I have forgotten his name) . Strictly Thomas Tilling was Independent ,but later worked motor omnibuses by agreement with the LGOC
The Madrid Metro logo looks very similar to the London Underground logo. Same colours and general layout, but a red diamond instead of a circle. Was this inspired by the London logo?
Possibly... but it's worth noting that for a period the Metropolitan used a logo which had a bar and lozenge. The lozenge was sometimes red or green and in fact there's a replica of this on the westbound platform at Moorgate on the Circle/H&S/Metropolitan lines.
Hi Jago: I believe most people still refer to The Underground as the 'Tube'. As I'm sure you know, Cockneys and some others may refer to it as 'The Oxo' or 'The Oxo Cube'. Perhaps mostly North American visitors might even call it the 'Subway'?
Whatever you call it, it is, for the most part, a very good public transit system, although sadly lacking in reduced fares for seniors who live outside the London area, and who do not hold a free travel card.
Same in NYC, except that the Senior card is half price not free. We must continue to gouge the tourists whenever possible.
:O Two appearances of Charles Yerkes today! That means two extra pints for those of us participating in the Jago Hazzard Pub/Brew Crew!
To paraphrase The History Guy, don't all good Tales From the Tube have a pirate named Yerkes !:-)
The Underground: The best place to ride a Subway in a Tube.
It took a Rail Nerd to coordinate all of the disparate rail lines and bring them under the umbrella of "The Underground"
If health and economics collide favourably on the 6th April , I should have a couple of London Rail and Bus Books on sale at the Theydon Bois Toy and (Model) Train Collectors Fair at the village hall at 7pm, it will still be daylight to get there, but you need your torch to get back as Essex council are saving on the leccy by turning off the streetlights. There should also be a couple of vendors of Hornby (original) O Guage and Dublo models plus plenty of road vehicles for ones model railway layout/s. The books might include one on the last days of the General and one on Underground publicity,etc, design.
Maybe they should switch to LED lighting like everywhere else and save that way.
So they all met up and agreed to raise their prices? I can appreciate that we need public transport, and if it had all gone pear-shaped I suppose we would have been worse off, but isn't that about as illegal as a meeting gets? So, nobody made a profit until the cartel was firmly established, but it all turned out OK in the end. I'm surprised it was allowed - the Victorian governments were so hot on trying to prevent railway price-fixing, but I guess the turn of the century and the age of Standard Oil and Rockefeller brought new thinking to Westminster.
Again we met our Friend @ 3:39!!! Never heard about him b4 you had start talking about him!!! 😉🚂🚂🚂
Surely, there is no need to mention Yerkes by name any more.😂 New viewers will just to do the homework.
Albert Stanley, George Gibb- I think Andy Byford is continuing the tradition.
Jago, you are the origin to my Underground, perfect as ever
Pirate buses.... an Interesting subject that Jago. Great Vid as ever
wow, i never knew pirate busses were a real thing. i only ever heard about them on "The Goodies"... where they had to operate outside the five mile limit (offshore)
I love these history episodes.
If we still had competition between buses and tubes prices would have been cheaper
Or possibly non-existent if the companies failed. Hard to say.
ToT tickets forerunner to travel cards and Oyster. Not forgetting when I was a lad the Red River - not sure if that included Underground or not.
It might be worth doing a vid on all the Americans that have come to run London's Transport, and all the London Transport Managers that have gone the other way to run New Yorks.
"The short end of the stick", as opposed to the "wrong end" etc. Thank you for the education. 😁
Superb as ever!
That was brilliantly laid out, what an excellent video. A pleasure to watch, as always! However, it leaves me with the thought - have you already done a piece on when they (and from the looks of some of the material in this vid, they means 'ordinary everyday folk') started calling it the Tube? From that poster which has (Tube) on it, it's clear that that's what everyone called it, regardless of what the lines called themselves. I call it that. This is Tales from the Tube! How long has it been totally tubular?
7:05 if it caught on, we would have had 'tales from the underground' rather than 'tales from the tube'. And I am split on which one sounds better!
wow where is the station at 6:45???! that is some amazing tile work
Very interesting. Thanx. Where did the name tube come in?
What this video shows is that Public Transport can only work (& stand any chance of making serious money) by being run as a Monopoly or Cartel. Something that Governments of late deliberately like to forget.
The Underground Brand - stopping TfL's cows being stolen whilst grazing