@@Paul.Douglas Damn, really? I mean I think I've done it right this whole time, but I didn't know that there was a specific method to be used by the TO; I'll have to look at that when I get the chance lmaooo I mean shit I make it tight still
This is excellent! I'm proud to say I work beside great minds like yours, Chris. Knowing the simplicity of this small example set the foundation for everything you've accomplished within the AD&T realm is just amazing...
Yes it’s still used in the aerospace business but different material lacing tapes are often used such as polyester(Dacron) or Nomex. Boeing uses those two on it’s airliners. Boeing also uses different colour ties to classify wire bundles.
They have better zip ties and tensioning/cutting tools to go with them now, so you see a lot of those today, but tie string is still the best in tight holes and spaces; even the good contemporary zip ties can snag on stuff. They won't cut a wire if properly installed. A lot of harness assemblies are produced with zip ties and then the aircraft electricians and avionics techs usually use tie string. Zip ties use is probably inversely related to the complexity of the aircraft; they cause more problems than they are worth on something with big bundles of wires going through every hole, but they make harness assembly much more efficient.
Still have a roll or two of the waxed type, and I still use it as well. Makes a great thread though to do things like shoe stitching, leather work and anything that requires a strong thread. For unwaxed I use a roll of upholstery button yarn, which is as strong, and just as useful. Yes also did many a wiring loom repair with the lacing cord, and even restrung a number of radios with it as well, though the upholstery cord is better in that it is wound and round instead of flat. Lots of running lacings as well, even if you also afterwards put on the snakeskin, and laced that up as well along the loom, then did the end finishing with rubber Hellerman sleeves laced tight to the bundles.
I am building an experimental airplane and am learning how to lace/tie the wire bundles. Your knot is the easiest to tie that I have seen. Most places recommend a clove hitch with a square knot before cutting the ends. Do you know if your knot is a unique style of knot or just a smarter way to make a clove hitch? I need to get some large string and try it and see if I can tell, but I thought you might know off-hand.
Thanks Chris...I went to Amazon afterwards and found a whole trove of suppliers but your links will probably lead to a better product for doing electronics wiring harnesses...I have used dental floss way back in the day! 73 - Dino KLØS (can't recall whether you were a ham?)
Sorry, you're hands were obscuring what the first knot actually looked like. I was looking for the version involving what some call a lark's head. Been using it for years.
I figured it out. It's an interesting knot. Seems equally as fast, or more so, then the lark's head method. But, having looked at it, the lark's head method can be ratcheted tighter than a cable tie.
@@davidvelozee Thank you for the spec. I've been looking these up. Yes, all of the aircraft specs I've looked up call for a clove hitch with either a reef knot or surgeons knot to lock it. The mil. spec. I found also allows a two-strand version for lacing with a larks head followed by however many marline hitches are need. But, then there's a finishing hitch that I haven't gotten the hang of. This two-strand method is the one most like what I learned in telephony wiring. Thanks again.
@@TesserId I’m not sure what type of knot this is, it seems like 2 knots are getting “combined” to achieve the same thing. It is indeed very effective! I was having trouble with the standard method using 22AWG silicone wire, the “locking” knot kept getting undone! This knot seems to work better, though I’m not sure why! I did however add another half-hitch. And I like the solder cut. I couldn’t find what the other locking knot names were, so thank you for that info! For finishing up a long lacing run, it’s usually the same as the start; clove hitch and locking knot. But I’ll have to look it up…
@@davidvelozeeAC 43.13-1B also calls for a clove hitch with a square knot. The knot Chris shows here is so much easier to tie that I figured it must be inferior to the “official” FAA knot. Since I am building an experimental airplane, I am not bound by the FAA standards, but I generally stay pretty close unless I have good reason to deviate. However, as a retired EE and SE, I am willing to try new things (that is the essence of experimental aviation). This knot is so much easier to tie than the FAA knot that I wanted to use it, but didn’t want to sacrifice strength. So, I decided to do my own testing. I used my bench vise and with the jaws closed tied an FAA knot on one side of the jaws and Chris’ knot on the other. I then opened the vise until one knot broke. I was going to test 10 or more times to ensure some level of statistical significance, but after the FAA knot broke first 5 times in a row, I called it quits and have used Chris’ knot throughout my project to date. I believe it is not only easier to tie than the FAA knot, but also has more tensile strength. Is there some other attribute where the FAA style knot is superior? Possibly, but I can’t imagine what that would be as both have two strands around the wire bundle so the surface area in contact is the same and Chris’ knot has greater resistance to breaking so I am absolutely comfortable using it in my homebuilt.
I tried your knot with some string and see that it isn’t a clove hitch, but is somewhat similar. I also came across this video which shows both the more standard clove hitch as recommended by NASA and the FAA and what looks to be the same knot you demonstrated. I wonder if the latter is also acceptable to the FAA? I would think if Hughes used it, it must be, but I don’t recall seeing it before in any aircraft or space related documents. th-cam.com/video/IyiNoLEGYZg/w-d-xo.html
I use it for cables I make in my lab as a compact replacement for wire ties. When I used the knot at Hughes it was only for test fixtures in the engineering lab. I have never made flight cables myself. If you are making flight cables I would stick exactly to the officially approved methodology.
@@Chris_Grossman Well, since I am building an experimental airplane, I don’t have to follow FAA requirements for things like this, but I generally do simply as good practice.
![ค้าง (STILL) - GEMINI [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ftxx3hk5vkU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Tutorial] Cable Lacing](/img/n.gif)
I'm working avionics on F-15's, we still use lacing everywhere!
Make sure you follow TO 1-1A-14. That TO shows a different, and the only accepted method.
@@Paul.Douglas Damn, really? I mean I think I've done it right this whole time, but I didn't know that there was a specific method to be used by the TO; I'll have to look at that when I get the chance lmaooo
I mean shit I make it tight still
This is excellent! I'm proud to say I work beside great minds like yours, Chris. Knowing the simplicity of this small example set the foundation for everything you've accomplished within the AD&T realm is just amazing...
Yes it’s still used in the aerospace business but different material lacing tapes are often used such as polyester(Dacron) or Nomex. Boeing uses those two on it’s airliners. Boeing also uses different colour ties to classify wire bundles.
Thank you for the update.
Even some espresso makers have lacing all over the harness( avinoic shop technician)
They have better zip ties and tensioning/cutting tools to go with them now, so you see a lot of those today, but tie string is still the best in tight holes and spaces; even the good contemporary zip ties can snag on stuff. They won't cut a wire if properly installed. A lot of harness assemblies are produced with zip ties and then the aircraft electricians and avionics techs usually use tie string. Zip ties use is probably inversely related to the complexity of the aircraft; they cause more problems than they are worth on something with big bundles of wires going through every hole, but they make harness assembly much more efficient.
+1 for the Weller WTCPN solder station. Love them, they never die.
Mine died, mains xformer wnet open circuit.
Still have a roll or two of the waxed type, and I still use it as well. Makes a great thread though to do things like shoe stitching, leather work and anything that requires a strong thread. For unwaxed I use a roll of upholstery button yarn, which is as strong, and just as useful. Yes also did many a wiring loom repair with the lacing cord, and even restrung a number of radios with it as well, though the upholstery cord is better in that it is wound and round instead of flat.
Lots of running lacings as well, even if you also afterwards put on the snakeskin, and laced that up as well along the loom, then did the end finishing with rubber Hellerman sleeves laced tight to the bundles.
I also use it (with the same knot) to prepare bands for my spear gun.
I used to work for Boeing and that was how we tied the wire bundles before they went to nomex weaving.
I’m actually working with wire harnesses and this method is required. Will try this out on my next bundle
That is truly awsome! I have never witnessed that maneuver! That you very much. I will use that often. Thanks for the trick. 73
outstanding. thank you for contributing to the youtube university knowledge base.
I am building an experimental airplane and am learning how to lace/tie the wire bundles. Your knot is the easiest to tie that I have seen. Most places recommend a clove hitch with a square knot before cutting the ends. Do you know if your knot is a unique style of knot or just a smarter way to make a clove hitch? I need to get some large string and try it and see if I can tell, but I thought you might know off-hand.
I am very thankful for your video, will use the tie method today on my aircraft.
Did avionics on F/A-18s. That is all we used
Great! Thank you!
🙏🏼 thank you. I have been searching on how to do this.
That's fantastic! Thank you!
Used this in the Navy, then for a long time they wanted everything to switch to zipties. It has come full circle, everything is spot tie again
very nice!
Nice trick, any leads on where the lacing cable can be obtained? Or key search phrases?
Dino, I added a few links for booing "flat waxed braided nylon cable lacing" to the description
Thanks Chris...I went to Amazon afterwards and found a whole trove of suppliers but your links will probably lead to a better product for doing electronics wiring harnesses...I have used dental floss way back in the day! 73 - Dino KLØS (can't recall whether you were a ham?)
buying not booing, damn autocorrect!
@@PapasDino I had a ham license when I was in high school. I will probably get another when I retire in a few years.
Thanks for sharing. Your camera angle left a lot to the imagination as your right-hand blocked half of the technique.
Brilliant! Thank you
We called that spot tying in the navy
Thank you
Sorry, you're hands were obscuring what the first knot actually looked like. I was looking for the version involving what some call a lark's head. Been using it for years.
I figured it out. It's an interesting knot. Seems equally as fast, or more so, then the lark's head method. But, having looked at it, the lark's head method can be ratcheted tighter than a cable tie.
Standards (IPC-620) calls for a clove hitch followed with a locking knot, like a square knot.
@@davidvelozee Thank you for the spec. I've been looking these up. Yes, all of the aircraft specs I've looked up call for a clove hitch with either a reef knot or surgeons knot to lock it. The mil. spec. I found also allows a two-strand version for lacing with a larks head followed by however many marline hitches are need. But, then there's a finishing hitch that I haven't gotten the hang of. This two-strand method is the one most like what I learned in telephony wiring. Thanks again.
@@TesserId I’m not sure what type of knot this is, it seems like 2 knots are getting “combined” to achieve the same thing. It is indeed very effective! I was having trouble with the standard method using 22AWG silicone wire, the “locking” knot kept getting undone! This knot seems to work better, though I’m not sure why! I did however add another half-hitch. And I like the solder cut. I couldn’t find what the other locking knot names were, so thank you for that info! For finishing up a long lacing run, it’s usually the same as the start; clove hitch and locking knot. But I’ll have to look it up…
@@davidvelozeeAC 43.13-1B also calls for a clove hitch with a square knot. The knot Chris shows here is so much easier to tie that I figured it must be inferior to the “official” FAA knot. Since I am building an experimental airplane, I am not bound by the FAA standards, but I generally stay pretty close unless I have good reason to deviate. However, as a retired EE and SE, I am willing to try new things (that is the essence of experimental aviation). This knot is so much easier to tie than the FAA knot that I wanted to use it, but didn’t want to sacrifice strength. So, I decided to do my own testing. I used my bench vise and with the jaws closed tied an FAA knot on one side of the jaws and Chris’ knot on the other. I then opened the vise until one knot broke. I was going to test 10 or more times to ensure some level of statistical significance, but after the FAA knot broke first 5 times in a row, I called it quits and have used Chris’ knot throughout my project to date. I believe it is not only easier to tie than the FAA knot, but also has more tensile strength. Is there some other attribute where the FAA style knot is superior? Possibly, but I can’t imagine what that would be as both have two strands around the wire bundle so the surface area in contact is the same and Chris’ knot has greater resistance to breaking so I am absolutely comfortable using it in my homebuilt.
Couldn't see that you were doing. Can you post another video filmed form either above or the left side?
Obstructed Clove Hitch?
x
I tried your knot with some string and see that it isn’t a clove hitch, but is somewhat similar. I also came across this video which shows both the more standard clove hitch as recommended by NASA and the FAA and what looks to be the same knot you demonstrated. I wonder if the latter is also acceptable to the FAA? I would think if Hughes used it, it must be, but I don’t recall seeing it before in any aircraft or space related documents. th-cam.com/video/IyiNoLEGYZg/w-d-xo.html
I use it for cables I make in my lab as a compact replacement for wire ties. When I used the knot at Hughes it was only for test fixtures in the engineering lab. I have never made flight cables myself. If you are making flight cables I would stick exactly to the officially approved methodology.
@@Chris_Grossman Well, since I am building an experimental airplane, I don’t have to follow FAA requirements for things like this, but I generally do simply as good practice.
You use lacing tape because it's cheaper.
His hand was blocking the view