I’m always amazed when ATC or pilots talk fast on crappy sounding radios and everyone understands each other. I can barely tell what they’re saying without subtitles.
*This is your captain speaking. We have been looking for a gate for over a month now. Bad news, you family probably thinks your dead. Good news, you get a lot of miles!*
Lol, Def Boston humor! ;) And living an hour south of Boston, its my FAV airport to land in because its really scary looking with the water alllll around, so it makes it really fun and exciting! Lol!! Prov is the other option and JUST like RI, its BORING and PLAIN, lol!
@@Em22-wtf Having moved from the Boston area to the southeast back in 2004, I can honestly say that while I don't miss *driving* at Logan, I do miss taking off and landing there. The views are so pretty! (Best airport I've ever *driven* into/out of is Norfolk, VA, but it's pretty tiny for an international airport. I lived just a few miles from it once I moved from Boston.)
I think passengers sometimes forget all the work going on around us once we land. I’m grateful to all the pilots and ATC getting us to the gate safely. I miss travel.
Forget what's going on after they land, why: Some passengers bolt out of their seats, scramble for their luggage and start marching to the front the moment two wheels touch pavement. It's like they forgot it takes 20 minutes to taxi and hook up to a hallway.
When I was in college I worked at JFK for 2 summers as a part-time job as a ramp worker running the cargo loader. No exaggeration, there was a near collision every single day at JFK. Always the same exact thing, one plane landing as another was crossing the runway or the previous plane was still on the runway and hadn’t cleared onto a taxiway. It’s a miracle there aren’t accidents. My hats off to ATC and to you pilots. JFK was an extremely busy airport from 13:00-22:00.
To my ears, the confusion in the Air France incident was because the AF pilot asked a question and the ATC thought he made a statement. When he said "Gate 8 is available for us?" he was asking the tower if it was available. His "okay..." at the end sounded less like frustration and more like he was really confused why the tower was going off on him for asking a question.
I don't think so. His "okay..." was more like "he's one of THOSE yanks". Anyway, there was no confusion, the ATC acted like a real jerk, regardless of whether the AF pilot had uttered a statement or a question. An ATC can't get triggered by such harmless things, simple as that. If it were up to me, that guy would've been instantly fired (nothing personal, it's just that people with a short fuse aren't ATC material in my book).
@@hardcard254 While you are correct that guy probably shouldn't be directing air traffic (at least as often, we all know they're overworked), I believe Katherine is correct in her assessment of the linguistic difference that sparked the misunderstanding, length of ATC's fuse notwithstanding. It is a result of basic translation mistakes, words can end up out of order because English is structured differently to French. Same reason acronyms using the same letters for the same words can end up out of order in different languages.
Back in about 1990 I was helping tutor some ground School students and I told them that if they got confused the most important thing to do when talking to air traffic control is tell them "who you are, where you are, and what you intend to do". Which led to one poor foreign student who my buddy had signed off to solo telling the tower "My name is Prashime, I am in an airplane, and I wish to land" The kid was actually a pretty good pilot, but the speaking English thing was really throwing him a curve for a while.
Glad you pointed out how ATC often speaks too fast even for an American, English speaker. Can't imagine how hard that must be for these foreign pilots . Especially at a place like JFK, where patience is on short supply.
Stupid that they do. I don't care how busy you are, it's very unsafe and poor procedure to speak anyway but the most clear and understandable when you're supposed to be worried about vocal/communication safety. FAA should regulate to require slow speech upon request. Let pilots start harassing ATCs who do not speak very clearly and calmly; speed =/= beneficial to caution or safety, just max throughput at cost to safety. ATC wanting to be cattle auctioneers because they're unhappy with their life in a box.
As a "Non-Pilot," it seems like communications between Pilots and ATC can be a bit overwhelming at times (to say the least)!!! My Lord, they speak fast and REALLY don't like to repeat themselves!!!!
you get used to it, when I was in the Army I wound up as a radio operator in a combat brigade headquarters, when we would go to the field I would spend 8-12 hours at the radio receiving radio traffic, sending out radio traffic, and it seemed overwhelming at first, but after a few days it was just routine.
i was a pilot , you also have static and cracle in the head set! than some of the atc think they are god!! and treat you like crap!! i declared emergency no power and was told to go around!! this is very rear to be so bad miss understood! but 3 time he told me to go around and for the commercial plane to take off!! it was the pilots on the ground that said they would set till i was down,
“contact Tracon @128.5” A ground controller could say that 500 times a day in his handoff. At some point there is a disconnect because your mind and your tongue.
I'm an LA chopper pilot and english as second language students flock here for training like crazy. It's quite hilarious listening to them pretty consistently. A part of me feels bad but you cant fuck around when it comes to safety and communication
I once had the opportunity to address a class of foreign students. Stressing the importance of communications and understanding, one student responded with "We don't want to make controllers mad by asking them to say again". I told him/them when asked, "It's our job to 'say again' as often as necessary to get the message across" and encouraged them to call the tower should they encounter a controller not being professional. Shortly afterwards, an obviously elated student proudly exclaimed after his first solo, "I love you!" as part of his request to taxi back to his FBO. lmao I know bcoz I was in the tower when he said it.
There is a small regional airport in one of our suburbs where a lot of chinese piolets train -- was told by a couple different pilots they come here without knowing much, if any, english - are arrogant about learning and was told that in chinese air space, they pretty much refuse to speak english - would this be true? Or normal to speak chinese if both pilot and control in china?
@@JM-ig4ed its common for another language to be spoken if the pilot and controller both speak the same. A few of my friends have said it happens a lot around Europe.
"Expectation bias" - now I know what it is that I've had to contend with for years. Somebody will ask me something, I respond distinctly, and they hear whatever they were expecting. So very annoying, especially when a minute later they ask me the same question.
Reminds of the old joke. BA pilot arrive at Frankfurt and is a bit hesitant in his taxiing. German controller, slightly annoyed: "Have you never been to Frankfurt before?" BA Pilot, reponding with a calm voice: "Yes. Twice in 1944, but I didn't land"
also the, "I am a German pilot, flying for a German airline at an airport in Germany. Why must I speak English here?" *in a British accent* "Because you lost both bloody wars".
I’ve been watching your videos for a while now. You’re doing a great job. My son wants to become a pilot too, I’ll definitely recommend your channel to him. (He’s only 9 years old but he’s already flown twice in a real simulator). Keep up the good work, sir!
It was an annoyed tone, not an annoying one. Personally, I loved her passive-aggressive way of telling that guy that he was being an idiot and wasting everyone's time.
Air France pilot: “It’s a good thing he doesn’t know how much I hate his guts.” Elaine: “It’s a good thing you don’t know how much he hates your guts.” 😂😂👍🏼
I’m a Brazilian pilot and have been flying to the US since 1991. ( Started on B707, then B767, A330, as First Officer, and then as Captain on A320, and back to B767 ) Mostly To MIA, ORL,JFK,IAD ,VCV, and BOS. The US Controllers always did an excellent job when we had any kind of issues . ( heavy weather, sick passenger on board needing a special assistance, going back to the gate due to technical problems, and so on) When they realized that you are trying to do your best, they will help you like no others in the world. But as soon as they have a clue that you are trying to trick them ...you’re on you’re one. I have to say that once we heard an British pilot ( not from BA , by the way) having some communication misunderstanding , asked an JFK controller : “ Sir ! Could you Please Speak English ...” We laugh out loud the whole approach !!! One advice that I would like to point out is the good old school : PREPARE YOURSELF ! Study and KNOW your route, TMA Areas, all the Jeppesen Plates , SIDs STARs, IAL, ILS. the taxi ways, etc, all in advance ! Do your home work . Take a good look at the charts your going to use in the approach, and pay attention to the instructions !!! If you didn’t understand, or it didn’t make sense to you : ask them to SAY AGAIN . This is the best way to avoid embarrassing yourself and you’re Airline. And always. : “ Kepp the blue up !!” Happy Landings 47 CREW
Gustavo Do you fly at QR ? I Always did Exactly as U , we are Highly Qualified Professionals, aren't we ? Abrazo Grande from Giancarlo Garlaschi. QR Commander (Ret ).
glad you brought up the issue with having to juggle ground and gate frequencies. im no pilot but I served in the army and we had a similar struggle. jumping between channels in the heat of an intense moment, like landing a plane or a fire fight.
Next time Kelsey lands, he’s gonna hear... “Saw your video...slow to 160, go around, land 4L instead of 4R and hold mike-alpha and expect November and gate 4 when I feel like it.”
In NY Center radar, I made sure my trainees understood to speak slower, because it will take much more time, to repeat the transmission 2 or 3 more times...and time at “rushhour” is valuable...! Just a history insight back in the 80’s
@@MrClevet3 I was Patco, in 1968, I did as much as the Patco org wanted, but, after awhile, the head of Patco was in over his head. but I also was advocating a different approach than the strike..so, I went to work for 8.5 more yrs and then retired...
Kelsey, thanks so much for your channel. Flying has been a dream all my life and listening to flying speak broken down like you do is great. Thanks again and please don't EVER listen to ANY negativity or bad comments. Pleae don't stop doing your great videos.
Kelsey making fun of the negative comments + false claims is some of his best video work! He has comedic skills + plenty of confidence for certain to brush it all off.
True story, overhead as a passenger behind specified large plane: ATC: "hold short runway ##", Plane: "ok, cleared for runway ##", ATC: "NO STOP STOP HOLD SHORT HOLD SHORT STOP STOP STOP", Plane: "what? you said cleared for runway ##" ATC: "no, i said hold short" me, looking out the window, seeing a plane landing on the runway.
This stuff always reminds me of that old email that went around years ago between ATC and a fighter pilot. The story goes, the fighter pilot calling ATC for a priority landing because his single-engine jet fighter was running "a bit peaked." ATC told the fighter jock that he was number two behind a B-52 that had one engine shut down. "Ah," the pilot remarked, "the dreaded seven-engine approach!"
As a french guy, when i'm tired, lazy or in a rush and speaking english or other languages, it happens that i ask something by an affirmative formed sentence because i've forgotten to turn it into a proper formed question. Usually, i realize my mistake but it's too late. It seems to me, the french pilot did the same...
Yes! it was a "lost in translation" thing. I've heard many french people talk like that, but since I'm very perceptive with languages (and I did study 2 years of French, 2 years of German and 2 years of Spanish), I can easily tell that's not exactly what they mean in English. They're actually querying, but it seems like they are _telling_ you in the affirmative! So, true, I think that's exactly what happened here!
@@747-pilot Danke/ Merci 747-pilot. Ich habe auch eins jahre Deutsch studeren (in 1996 ins Sudafrika) Don't French, Spanish, Potuegese and Latin all belong to the same language - group? like Zulu, Xhosa and Swazi. (I'm trying to study French, but all the Universities or higher institutions are close. So it is very difficult...)
I doubt this is only a "lost in translation" situation. In French the situation is more complex, a question can be asked like in English as "Are you ill?" or as "You are ill?" with the intonation being that of a question. While this is done sometimes in English too, in French it is the most used way of asking a question, even if every teacher would tell you that it is just lazy colloquial speech and should not be done in important/official talk. The big problem with it is visible in the video. You don't know until the end of the sentence if it was meant as a question or not, as the intonation of a question is done through the end of a sentence. Add confirmation bias or in this case a foreign language where it is not usual to ask questions that way, and you get these misunderstandings, just not hearing the intonation at the end. The bad audio transmission quality doesn't help either. Listening to the pilot multiple times I hear it as a question sometimes, sometimes as a statement. Which is quite ironic because the English inversion to ask a question is not only the correct way in French too, but is also already a lazy variant in French. The French have an even more elaborate way of asking a question which eliminates all misunderstandings by using specific question words "Est-ce que...?" (similar to "why..." in English, just for general questions). So if this pilot really asked it as a question, then he used the most lazy variant of asking a question available in French. Therefore I would argue that it is not (only) a problem of translation, but also a problem of not focusing on a clear language. In French he would probably be understood, but still get scolded for not using unambiguous language in an essential setting. While I can understand someone being tired or distracted or exhausted, this is more a mindset thing, being in colloquial "chatty" mode than it being a question of speaking a foreign language or being too exhausted. While that way of speaking can be a question in French, in a professional setting, where precision of language is required, it would probably never be used.
@@davidvanniekerk356 Yes, they are indeed related, but I did find French the most difficult of them all. All the different sentences appear to be "merged" into one sentence, and it can be very diffcult to figure out the context of what is being said. It's easy on paper, but the spoken enunciation is difficult to understand. Oddly enough, I found Spanish and German fairly easy! Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsche, aber ich habe viele vergessen. Das war viele jahre vor! (since it was an "immersion type" learning environment I"ve not forgotten everything!)
In 1996 i was at a 737 plane entrance boarding, a pilot reaking of alchohol pushed me aside in a hurry to get in to the flight deck. I went to my seat while relizing what had just happened and not knowing what to do. On departure we had the steepest takeoff imaginable, i thought for sure we would stall. We made it to the destination where I vowed never again to stay on a flight with a drunk at the controls. The more i learn and see in life, the less i trust people to do quality driving or flying. Bring on the robo-taxis for me. God help us...
I'm not sure whether I feel worse for the pilot or the passengers for how much danger they were potentially in without knowing. If I were on that flight I'd probably get cold chills finding out how rough the communication was.
Thing is, they probably were. Not likely Japan.. but before they called for push and start they likely heard something like. Air China 982 cleared to Beijing via the GREKI SIX departure of 04L, flight plan route. Departure 135.9. Squawk 4747.
What joke? You’re basically just stating the obvious of what happens all the time. Dial up clearance delivery on Live ATC for any major airport and listen to planes that don’t even have their passengers on board yet getting cleared to their destination.
I'm British, when I watch American movies I have the subtitles on. Actors are supposed to be voice trained to be clearly understood. These JFK Air Traffic Controllers need voice training. Mostly they need to talk normally and...matter-of-fact...without any annoyance and be understanding to foreign pilots.
I'm a GA pilot who has been flying GA airplanes for 50 years since I soloed at age 16 ten days after Buzz Aldrin wore the first Omega Speedmaster on the lunar surface. I'm also a lawyer who mostly practices Workers' compensation law when people get injured on the job. I can say this, there is not much of a personality difference between ATC controllers and Workers' compensation judges. They come in all types with similar ego's as well. I've actually been confused a few times and said "Roger" to a judge and "yes Judge" to a controller.
@@fsg7710 A Delta pilot who had a bad day. It happened in Atlanta. A Controller asked the Delta pilot to do something and for some odd reason the Delta Pilot got offended and started bitching out loud on the comms. Another pilot (Who had enough) basically responded "Settle down Captain Happy!"
8:36 Especially when you come to Germany, because in Germany it is actually forbidden by law to make jokes on Flight radio or to talk about other things that have nothing to do with the current flight situation
I worked JFK as a ramp agent and they changed gears a lot on the ground much less in the air. We did international but if they were short handed, you'd have to do domestic loading and off loading. It's usually organized by a manager but sometimes we' d have to change duties suddenly. The coordination needed is amazing. Very busy.
Hey 74Gear, as an approach controller, I enjoy your explanations and humor. The whole thing with JFK ATC to me is; they have too much attitude. I get it, it's busy. But to pull a 747 off the approach for a few knots airspeed is bordering on negligence. Where is it going to fit into the sequence again? Had she just created a bigger problem? Did you know that any ATC assigned speed can be flown plus or minus 10? If assigned 180, a pilot can fly 170 or 190 and there's a huge difference between the 2 when you're sequencing aircraft, trust me. I know when someone has taken my 160 assignment and reduced to 150! The Speedbird guy had a right to be a little miffed, he's off a long flight, 300 plus passengers etc and I know that their company does require 160 knots at the FAF. The controller was obviously trying to create space behind him, and the best way is to run an extra mile or so spacing with the following traffic and let it close up on final. Assigning Speedbird 160 or greater and citing the trailing traffic might get more cooperation. If you're running 4 miles behind a heavy 5 miles from the runway and need to keep it to the ground, it won't work.
It's great when professional controllers like you make comments! I respect your ATC abilities immensely! Noticed a few controllers being flippant with foreign pilots whose command of English is less than stellar. Some controllers might benefit from a bit more training on how to deal with these challenging situations diplomatically. It's got to be frustrating when time is of the essence + effective communication isn't happening. Some of the pilots need to improve their English proficiency. I thought they had to take an English proficiency test? A friend is becoming a certified instructor for that. Don't all countries require the test, or only those who fly for U.S. airlines who need to be tested?
The point is, someone's going around if he cannot maintain that speed. As Kelsey mentioned, it was nowhere near an unreasonable request for a 747 to hold 180 til 5DME. Pull the offender out and he will get more cooperative later. Yanking the guy behind due to no fault of his own? That is not the right call. Not sure where you practice your craft but JFK is consistently jamming 10 pounds of crap into a two landing runway bag. As N90 is always short handed you are welcome to give it a try.
When I was a flight coordinator of ground handling of our airline, I used to tell our operation staff to ask our pilots to make a request of the shortest runway to the arrival parking spot each time there were many short connection passengers and in most cases these pilots' request was accepted by the controller as long as the requested runway was available. Normally pilots don't know about ground handling situation without being specifically informed in advance and accept automatically what is told by the controller. Before I became a flight coordinator, it happened often that the longest runway to the spot was assigned by the controller and used by our pilots and we had lots of misconnection cases which consequently caused much financial damage to the company through useless expenses like hotel accommodations, meals, booking change fees that we could have avoided enough easily in many cases. At the airport where I was working for many years, the difference of time was 5 - 15 minutes according to each runway to choose and the ground traffic. For us even one minute of difference was really crucial to protect short connection passengers.
Sounds like ole Continental airlines before the merger, when I use to fly with them from east to west coast I always missed my connection to SAN out of Hou when they were redoing the runways and construction back in 06'-09'
they were clearly having a conversation together ... pilot should have held the mic on while swearing about the cow in the tower then simply finish with whoops mic was still on.
@@JimS870 it means he will pretend his radio communications failed by just turning it off, making a fake emergency so he can forget the hold that atc wants him to do
@whybother now A professional Controller and Pilot environment should not be a pissing contest. A safe landing starts from the top of descent . When some Controller wants to unstabilizing it on final approach because of their own poor Controller sequencing . That Controller needs retraining. JFK hasn't got the best of reputations. ......except for playing "pissing games".
@@PlaneSpottingBerlin One would expect some kind of professionalism from a channel with 100K+ subs like you, maybe send him private mail or something, like "Hi Kelsey, I noticed that you used one of my pictures in your videos. I would like you to notify me in case you're using my pictures again in the future bla bla bla....", you figure it out. But apparently, not from you, you decided to draw attention in the comments. People's perception can be scary sometimes, especially on the internet. You could be unnecessarily drawing hate towards him or towards yourself, it's kinda double-edged blade. Better play it safe mate.
@@matty6848 Hi there. No I did not. My ex was a fighter pilot and then commercial pilot and use to tell me all about him. And I have listened to him on the job via (you tube) and read about him. IMO he knew his stuff. I am a retired Marine and really like the get your sh*t squared away attitude. JFK IMO is crazy busy as is LaGuardia. Flown into both. Did you know him? 😎😃
Air China ATC is not Kennedy Steve as far as I can tell. This guy has southern twang and I have never heard that from Kenn Steve... His voice may have changed but I doubt that much. Tim F NZL
@Cindy Tartt On top of that KS is just sarcastic and does the odd pun. I have never heard him confrontational... so this is clearly some other guy. I am sure all tower conversations are reviewed either for cause or randomly and this chap is going beyond what KS would do. Chinese airlines have had some spectacular crashes outside PRC and presumably a few inside which have been hushed up. When you listen to this it is surprising that there have not been more. Tim F
Really like the explanation of 'expectation bias' and it impact on what you think you hear. I have been teaching about this problem for year in coaching canoeing and the coach not truly listening to the clients answers. Really useful way of labelling it. Thank you.
I was a C-130 pilot in the USAF when, after landing at Chicago O’Hare, the ground controller gave us a rapid string of taxi instructions. I just sat in stunned silence, until he patiently offered progressive taxi instructions as if I were a young child.
@@sukritmishra6676 Not it’s not. They’re used to dealing with familiarized pilots. If any new pilot to an airport is given 5 taxiways rapid fire they won’t remember. Good pilots know when to say “Say again” or “unfamiliar and I need a progressive taxi”.
No not a young child. Hopefully his delivery/phraseology effected successful communication of his instruction(s). Anything else implied or otherwise, would be reflective of his lack of professionalism.
@@MrClevet3 Not unprofessional, but like the exasperation of a teacher going through an entire explanation again because the student didn’t get it the first time.
While operating a B727 freighter at night out of the cargo complex at JFK some years ago I received a clearance like, "Cleared to cross 31L then left on Alpha further routing in about a minute." The clearance was read back and as we crossed 31L the ground controller issued the following clearance : "Cross Alpha onto the ramp, do a 180 and hold short of Alpha". We acknowledged but he felt the need to explain.: "We have a Chinese 747 coming around the corner in a minute that hasn't talked to anyone since he was on Approach Control. We think we know where he is going but foe now just hold short of Alpha." Sure enough, a few moments later this huge 747 comes around the corner with every exterior light ablaze and not talking to anyone.
This reminded me of the day back in the early 1970s, when a 747 was picked up on radar heading for Heathrow (London), from a direction not on any flightpath. When ATC could not make contact, fearing a electrical or mechanical failure on the aircraft, the airport went to full emergency, ceasing all departures and putting about 30 incoming flights into a holding pattern. Fire trucks lined both runways and ambulances were called to the airport. The fully loaded 747 made a normal landing, stopped at the end of the runway, the door opened and the pilot stood at the opened door scratching his head and looking puzzled. When security arrived and managed to find a portable ramp to board, one of the passengers acted as translator and told them that the flight crew did not contact ATC because none of them spoke or understood a single word of English. The captain could not believe his eyes when he saw the size and complexity of Heathrow. The newly formed African airline were immediately banned from landing in the UK or flying across UK controlled airspace. Although that one was the tip of the iceberg, ATC regularly had communication problems with African flights in those days.
As an Air Traffic Controller in the center environment (and an instrument rated private pilot), I think you had a great description of what occurred in the clips. The one with Air China 981.... English is the language of aviation to those countries that subscribe to ICAO. And while China theoretically subscribes to ICAO, I am sure that English is not used the same in China as it is other places. Therefore, there is a really good chance that the pilot's possibly had translation issues. I have personally seen similar issues with Mexican pilots who have mistaken clearances despite the pilot responding in English.
this is kind of an outdated take on Chinese English standards. many Chinese speak English, especially since the advent of the internet age. most likely an older pilot would have more trouble than anyone 30 or younger
@@VeggieRice But that incident with CA981 probably took place 10-15 years ago since the video has floating around forever. That pilot would definitely be well over 30 now.
10:26 I thinks it's mostly an accent thing. Americans in the Midwest and East Coast tend to speak faster than Americans from down South or out West. Although I can sympathize with the Chinese pilot. I tried to learn French. Native French speakers talk so fast. It's hard for me to understand.
There's also an assumption that what sounds totally different to an English speaker/listener also sounds totally different to a foreigner. If you have ever tried to speak Chinese, you know that what sounds near identical to you, are totally different to a Chinese person, and it's not just about 'tone'. For an English person listening to a foreigner attempting English, they can make huge mistakes and we could usually still understand; but that it absolutely not true in the other direction....if a non-Chinese person hears a word that is even slightly incorrect, it becomes totally unintelligible - there seems to be very little scope for error in Chinese. Still, you'd have thought they would have 'learned' that in their training, so perhaps it is simply confirmation bias, or indeed accent (I know there are some US accents that I cannot understand (I'm English)).
Having listened in to approach and tower frequencies at YVR, I have heard the odd funny banter between both parties. With the tower/ approach (many years ago and late at night) requesting a faster speed of 180 and the aircraft requesting 160 or 170 . The tower/approach came back with “SOLD, 160 (or 170 knots)” done very quickly, professionally and comically. The briefly chuckle on both mikes was great to hear. Despite YVR being a pretty busy airport typically, they can manage to handle traffic well and are not as short with pilot as the busier American hubs. Just a bit more friendly.
You really need a 3-person flight crew for these busy airports. Last-minute runway changes and taxi directions means you need those other frequencies queued up on standby and you can have a person getting gate clearance from ramp while the pilot monitoring is talking to tower or ground. You can easily go through 10 radio frequencies between approach and gate- especially for PRM/SOIAs when you have to monitor a second frequency.
Try speaking North American French in Paris if you want to see eyes roll ! Such an insult ! In Canada, we talk about "la fin de semaine", while Parisians call it "le weekend". Ya just can't win.
Your videos are amazing... Even though I'm not a Pilot and I don't understand 50% of the detailed info you explain, I have been an aviation enthusiast since I was a little boy, and I find every video of yours very well explained and always entertaining. :D Much love from Ecuador
So hilarious. You just have such a great delivery when dealing with this kind of back and forth. So well done. LMAO. Cheers and keep up the great work.
I can speak English quite well , but when i visit US the first and only time , i had issues to understand a guy behind a counter in McDonalds it was so embarrassing 🤦♂️ Yeah and I don't understand those ATC guys in videos either 😅 They speak so freaking fast...and mumble...
@@terrabiker Imagine me taking 3 years of French in highschool, 3 years in University, going to Belgium and being lost as what was being said. At least I could read the signs, lol. Native speakers of a language can speak so fast sometimes, hard to follow.
As a native speaker I can't always understand ATC (although I'm not a pilot). The pilot may have only been able to catch a few key words in there. It's possible he may not have realized he was being asked a question and not an instruction since the vocabulary is a bit different to the usual ATC dialogue. If he learned English specifically for flying, he's probably more familiar with ATC than regular conversation; once he was told to hold he immediately did so.
@@drd675 I remember feeling really confident about my skills in a Spanish class. Then we did an exercise trying to listen to a native speaker and I felt like an idiot
Hey mate, great video. I was skeptical at first when I saw the "pilot reacts" thing (I'm a former C-130 pilot), but great explanations. I just subscribed.
I really liked this video. Kelsey did a great job detailing things out. Like using the charts, which I understand a bit being a simmer, to help make it easier to understand. Real interesting stuff. Great job man!!!
When I was a kid all I wanted to do is be a pilot. My high school counselor said that wasn't a viable career option for me because I wasn't good at math. Now here, Kelsey is saying he is terrible at math and he is a 747 pilot? My whole life has been a lie!
And you believed him? You think his airline would put him a 747 with poor mathematical skills? Some times you need to run quick calculations, I don't think kelsey is average at math.
My nephew is a pilot flying a small jet for executives in large corporation globally. I asked him what was the hardest part of his job, was it making the flight plan? He said, “No, a company does that for us and I just review it.” Was it communicating with the air traffic controllers around the world? “No” he said, “English is the universal language, except the French with their strong French accent is sometimes hard to understand and if ask them to repeat a couple times, they get irritated…. But truthfully, it’s hard just staying awake.”
I did medical claims over the phone for a huge insurance company. Learning corruption from the inside was enough to run me out- but the inbound calls into us shifted to offshore agents within about 2 years. A queue of young Indian and Malaysian kids attempting to reconcile medical jargon in severe broken english was the most intolerable hell ive experienced. I completely understand the uncontrolled frustration of the controller.
If you're looking for something fascinating to learn about, there are dozens of cognitive biases that we have that you might not even be aware of. It can be an interesting thing to learn about them and it will shed some light on how you think and perceive the world.
Expectation bias. You expected there to be an "-al" suffix there to form an explicit adjective, but it was actually an attributive use of the root noun. :)
Considering how briefly and quickly Air Traffic Controllers speak, I have always been surprised that there are not more miscommunication mishaps at busy airports like JFK, where you have so many non-native English speaking pilots. Easy to see why ATC is such a stressful job.
@@mackwiz1 ... "arrogance about the USA dialects by all Americans," is certainly not true! Sorry you got this perception. We tease each other about different dialects at times. How/where did you get this impression?
@@concierge7574 : It is well known in the world that Americans expect complete understanding of their dialects from visitors, and yet we have a slight accent...not even that! I was shocked by a person when was in a shop who said he didn't know what I was asking.
Usually, it takes about 2000-3000 hours of learning for an East Asian language native to gain decent English proficiency. That is no less than the flight hours required for a trainee to be eligible to apply for ATPL. I would like to send a big cheer for any non English native pilots and other professionals who are struggling to overcome language barrier.
no offence, but If you have still not aquired decent english capabilities as a pilot, especially a huge aircraft, like in the videos, one should not be able to get a pilot in the first place.
@@AaronShenghao and many of Air China’s pilots have a very hard time with English. I’ve watched them blow hold shorts on active runways, get lost on taxiways, and I could go on but it’s not just a tactic.
Chinese pilots flying in China always communicate in Mandarin with ATC and are not required to learn English: a domestic airline pilot likely can't speak English at all. It's been like this for decades until recently the CAAC announced that Chinese airspace would adopt the use of English further.
Love this video. I was a passenger on an Aeroflot flight in Moscow and I was able to hear the tower using my Walkman as I remember. It was fascinating.
Imagine being one of those postal delivery pilots who only had cement arrows constructed on the ground to guide them. Aviation sure has come a long way in a very short time.
@@robertl.fallin7062 HE WAS SO QUICK AND WITTY! A TRUE PLEASURE AND A PRO, 1ST TIME I HEARD HIM, HE WAS EXPLAINING SOMETHING TO A I BELIEVE A CHINESE CAPT, WITH A WICKED ACCENT, STEVE WAS NICE TO CALL I THINK A 727, LOOK FOR THE "BIG ORANGE PUMPKIN WITH WINGS" AS 5 TIMES NORMAL DID NOT SINK IN, AND A WISECRACK FROM SEEMS LIKE 10 OTHER PILOTS ON ALL TAXIWAYS, WITH THERE LAUGHTER AND WISECRACKS, GOOD OLD STEVE MADE A NEW FRIEND, AND ALL WERE SAFE!!!!!!! PURE CLASS!
@Frank Silvers thanks for clearing that up! If you live anywhere in Europe, you are European. In this context it doesn't really matter where you live in Europe... I don't understand why you took the time to make this comment.
I’m a guy who originally from Mainland of China and started my aviation life as well as my English lingo learning in Canada at about the same time back in 2013, I think I can probably explain the story why did China 981 mistakenly keep thinking that transmission from ATC “ Have you been cleared to the gate?” wasn’t an interrogative question. It was because of the rising/falling tone or intonation at the end of the sentence. To most of Mandarin speaker if a question that expresses uncertainty, the voices of the last word of the question usually does NOT drop but only rises at the end, or put it this way , usually as a non-native English speaker most of people expect “ Have you been cleared to the gate? ”to be ended with a rising tone as simple as your wife asking “are you going home?(ended with a rising tone) ” and you should simply answered by “ Yes my lord I’m going home.”with the absolute flat/falling tone. Especially back in earlier days English learning was not as popular as now days in mainland of China. It was like the black and white language regulation to us, the only few exceptions of having the voice drops/falls at the end are those information questions which begin from “how, what or when”. So that’s basically how we justify if it was a question or an assertive sentence by relying on the slight differences between the rising/falling English intonations. Me, as a pilot flying in Canada commercially who once made a position report to the local female ATC “xxx, 2000ft over xxxxxx Bitch(supposed to be the word “beach”) back in 2015. I’m still alive & keep working on my English everyday. :)
"Have you been....?" is a grammatically correct question no matter how you put it. Tone is irrelevant. The only time tone is relevant is when a sentence could elicit dual purpose that is both answer and question at the same time, eg; "You have been cleared to the ramp?". In this case this could mean either one depending on where syllable emphasis occurs , but it is nonetheless NOT a grammatically correct question.
Your written English is very good. When you learn English in China, or maybe in other countries, do they teach you that "have" is also a question word? I'm wondering if that might have helped. Honestly, I feel really bad for the Air China guy, and the very obvious language barrier. That ATC guy needed to be a little more patient. Mandarin and Cantonese, being only two of several tonal languages, have very different rules. I don't know them, I just know that if you say something in one tone or inflection, it can be one word, and if you change the tone, it's something completely different. Americans do not understand this, generally. I feel like ATC people need to be taught how to speak to ESL pilots with more patience and kindness.
@@AmyAndThePup Are you joking ? The ATC guy is supposed to be more patient ?? These guys flying airplanes around other planes with many many souls on board, if they unable to safely communicate they have 0 aka ZERO business endangering anyone... zero excuse accepted when it comes to a dangerous industry...
@@aungkhant502 the distinction is lost across some languages as they have different ways of asking questions. take french for example, the only difference between a statement and a question is lifting your tone at the end of the sentence. if someone’s first language judges questions based on tone rather than phrasing, it can make it hard to interpret questions and statements with languages like english which use phrasing.
Ok but English is not a tonal language. The rise and fall of it is irrelevant most of the time, the interrogative grammar of "Have you...?" precedes any tonal inference. I understand thats difficult to learn going from Mandarin to English but its something that pilot needs to do; to stop listening to English looking for the tonal cues of Mandarin because he's not going to get them.
I love aviation and am fascinated by all aspects of commercial and military aviation and the history thereof. Your explanations to various problems of aviation and the solutions make it understandable and enjoyable. Thank you, Kelsy. Safe travels, always.
Thanks for explaining the taxiway/gate correlation on the Air China clip. I've always wondered where they got November BTW, the ATC in the Air France clip is Kennedy Steve. He's a treasure, but he retired in 2017. He could be a bit curt, but being a ground control @KJFK has got to be one of the most miserable, thankless jobs in aviation. I cannot count on my fingers the number of times that I've been on an AA flight out of there on a Friday evening when they were backed up 30+ for departure. BTW, there are bunches of Kennedy Steve videos here on TH-cam.
I really enjoyed this. I used to be a cab dispatcher in the old days. 22 cars, radio. With pen and paper keeping track of everyone in my head. It took me two weeks to get my radio ear in the place. Fun times.
6:00 Your exactly right. That’s Logan INTL in Boston Massachusetts. The second I saw the tower I could tell after living there for about 11 years before moving.
Air France "Supere" pilot to his co-pilot: "Merde". LOL . I've run into lots of Chinese that speaks English very fast, you can't tell what they're saying.
@@karekarenz4713 Yeah, kinda does. OTOH, as jobs with a built-in glide-path to burnout goes, being responsible for thousands of lives at a time and yelling at pilots all day has to be right up there!
As a 747 Captain flying into JFK for 27 years, I know exactly how confrontational and aggressive ATC can be - especially with foreign carriers whose first language is not English- they speak very casually and very fast, if you do not know what they are going to say it is hard to follow and if you don't get it first time it is almost impossible to get a word in edgeways - same at EWR........ the Canarsie approach (not this one) is especially difficult for a 747, 13L and worse 13R. If you fly into London the difference is enormous - no shouting, no dragging your aircraft in at low level for extended periods.Proper ATC language spoken at a reasonable speed so that everyone can understand . I took London air traffic controllers into JFK on the flight deck, and they were shocked at New York/JFK ATC. I have had to do 'S' turns on finals to the 31's in order to avoid a go-around because I was turned in too early - I had the skill and flexibility because of experience - a colleague had to go-around.......... If you are landing on 22L you clear the runway and and are immediately bombarded with an entry point to the ramp by ATC - when you may not have been able to find out - stabilised approaches have been high on the agenda for pilots for safety reasons for a long time and quite rightly so - ATC have an important role but the buck stops with the pilots - so 74Gear (first officer I note)we do not all agree with you.
I'm glad you like the service we provide here at EGLL. It all looked like a gash bit of controlling to me; which based upon numerous accounts from crews who are in as regular as you have been, gives the impression it's a bit 'cowboy'ish'. The above demonstration of poor vectoring/speed control does little to diminish that opinion.
sure, that really happened. I'm sure that as a 747 pilot, you're always picking up your friends from Heathrow ATC & ferry them across the Atlantic just to get annoyed & have your back, right? Your claim that Heathrow ATCs speak slower doesn't track--Heathrow is one of the busiest airports in the world, just like JFK, they are dealing with dozens or hundreds of flights each, they do not speak slowly. You may have a preference for the Queen's English, but others do not. Queens English has not been an ESL standard since the 70s. also thumbing your nose at his rank, after saying you disagree with him, but he's just a 'lowly first officer,' was extra sh!tty. You seem like a prat. Happy trails, dbag
I’m always amazed when ATC or pilots talk fast on crappy sounding radios and everyone understands each other. I can barely tell what they’re saying without subtitles.
A lot of this is shared by aviation enthusiasts intercepting the transmissions when planespotting. When the pilots and ATC hear is usually clearer
Especially with all the different accents, etc!
@@MsJubjubbird believe most of the time it's this crappy
I’m 9 and I understand that stuff
;-;
@@SonNguyen-tm7xk and you don't need to brag
At JFK now, air china 981 is still trying to get to the gate.
*This is your captain speaking. We have been looking for a gate for over a month now. Bad news, you family probably thinks your dead. Good news, you get a lot of miles!*
"Air China 981, you're on your own now, I can't keep doing this." Air China 981- ok taxi to the november
@@ajandrewy.1024 yeah, "Air China 981, I'm getting retired tomorrow. It's been wonderful 32 years of service together."
Roger, porceedring tur gate, ai chyna 981.
Remember, remember, hold short on November...
Air France pilot: “Ok...” Unkeys mic “... Sit on a baguette mozerfuquer”
😂
ROFL
@Mouloud Ait-Kaci....🥖🍷Super
😁 & You still haven't answered my question so when ever get around to that that would be great ok smart arse
I read that in a French accent. Worth it
'Are you saying you have commitment issues sir?' - killed me
He should have finished with : "Well then, our wedding is _off!_"
Lol, Def Boston humor! ;) And living an hour south of Boston, its my FAV airport to land in because its really scary looking with the water alllll around, so it makes it really fun and exciting! Lol!! Prov is the other option and JUST like RI, its BORING and PLAIN, lol!
@@Em22-wtf Having moved from the Boston area to the southeast back in 2004, I can honestly say that while I don't miss *driving* at Logan, I do miss taking off and landing there. The views are so pretty! (Best airport I've ever *driven* into/out of is Norfolk, VA, but it's pretty tiny for an international airport. I lived just a few miles from it once I moved from Boston.)
I think passengers sometimes forget all the work going on around us once we land. I’m grateful to all the pilots and ATC getting us to the gate safely. I miss travel.
Me too ! 😭
me to
I miss hugging crying flight attendants
I'm glad we don't hear these radio communications while on the flight.
Forget what's going on after they land, why: Some passengers bolt out of their seats, scramble for their luggage and start marching to the front the moment two wheels touch pavement. It's like they forgot it takes 20 minutes to taxi and hook up to a hallway.
When I was in college I worked at JFK for 2 summers as a part-time job as a ramp worker running the cargo loader. No exaggeration, there was a near collision every single day at JFK. Always the same exact thing, one plane landing as another was crossing the runway or the previous plane was still on the runway and hadn’t cleared onto a taxiway. It’s a miracle there aren’t accidents. My hats off to ATC and to you pilots. JFK was an extremely busy airport from 13:00-22:00.
- Air China 981 hold short of November
- Okay, hold short until november
This is golden
This would be genuinely confusing if the current date and time is Oct 31st, 23:50.
This is the comment I was looking for; thank you very much! (lmfao)
Atc: Air China 981 hold short of India
Air China: roger hold short of India
Also Air China:*takes off on the taxiway to India*
Dude you crack me up😂
To my ears, the confusion in the Air France incident was because the AF pilot asked a question and the ATC thought he made a statement. When he said "Gate 8 is available for us?" he was asking the tower if it was available. His "okay..." at the end sounded less like frustration and more like he was really confused why the tower was going off on him for asking a question.
Katherine Spezia Exactly !
I don't think so.
His "okay..." was more like "he's one of THOSE yanks".
Anyway, there was no confusion, the ATC acted like a real jerk, regardless of whether the AF pilot had uttered a statement or a question.
An ATC can't get triggered by such harmless things, simple as that. If it were up to me, that guy would've been instantly fired (nothing personal, it's just that people with a short fuse aren't ATC material in my book).
That's what Donald Trump would say. Just following his president's orders.
"What's gate are you waiting for"
"Gate 8"
"I don't need *you* to tell *me* what I can see and you can't!"
"ok......"
@@hardcard254 While you are correct that guy probably shouldn't be directing air traffic (at least as often, we all know they're overworked), I believe Katherine is correct in her assessment of the linguistic difference that sparked the misunderstanding, length of ATC's fuse notwithstanding. It is a result of basic translation mistakes, words can end up out of order because English is structured differently to French. Same reason acronyms using the same letters for the same words can end up out of order in different languages.
Back in about 1990 I was helping tutor some ground School students and I told them that if they got confused the most important thing to do when talking to air traffic control is tell them "who you are, where you are, and what you intend to do".
Which led to one poor foreign student who my buddy had signed off to solo telling the tower "My name is Prashime, I am in an airplane, and I wish to land"
The kid was actually a pretty good pilot, but the speaking English thing was really throwing him a curve for a while.
LMAO!!! LMAO MORE!!!
@@MrClevet3 WELL AT LEAST HE DID'NT LIE!!!!!!! JUST MISSED A FEW FACTS, BUT, ILL BET THEY ALL HAD SOME FUN UP IN THE TOWER!
@@StortWeldingCoLLC LMAO!
I wouldnt even think about piloting in a country that doesn't speak the language i primarily use in their atc. What did he expect?
Hope he got there and it just became a fun story. I mean, he wasn't wrong, I guess!,
I like the Air France pilots tone when he says ok; you can hear his eyes roll. Lol
Yep, the unspoken yet audible "...Americans."
Souppperrr lol
wow so mean ATC not right to be mean
absolute disgust haha
Hello from Aruba
Glad you pointed out how ATC often speaks too fast even for an American, English speaker. Can't imagine how hard that must be for these foreign pilots . Especially at a place like JFK, where patience is on short supply.
Stupid that they do. I don't care how busy you are, it's very unsafe and poor procedure to speak anyway but the most clear and understandable when you're supposed to be worried about vocal/communication safety. FAA should regulate to require slow speech upon request. Let pilots start harassing ATCs who do not speak very clearly and calmly; speed =/= beneficial to caution or safety, just max throughput at cost to safety. ATC wanting to be cattle auctioneers because they're unhappy with their life in a box.
Some people just talk fast. English is not my mother tongue yet some native speakers think I speak too fast.
WELL SAID!@@unclebounce1495
"Which way would you like us to face."
"Well forward, cause if you're flying facing the passengers they get concerned."
I don't know why but I spent at least 2 mins solid laughing after reading this.
Kennedy Steve
@@adde9506 yes!! I LOVE listening to him!!
@@nikpalagaming8610 yes he did. The old tapes are hilarious tho.
That's as old as the hills on grandma's chest!!! lol
As a "Non-Pilot," it seems like communications between Pilots and ATC can be a bit overwhelming at times (to say the least)!!! My Lord, they speak fast and REALLY don't like to repeat themselves!!!!
you get used to it, when I was in the Army I wound up as a radio operator in a combat brigade headquarters, when we would go to the field I would spend 8-12 hours at the radio receiving radio traffic, sending out radio traffic, and it seemed overwhelming at first, but after a few days it was just routine.
i was a pilot , you also have static and cracle in the head set! than some of the atc think they are god!! and treat you like crap!!
i declared emergency no power and was told to go around!! this is very rear to be so bad miss understood! but 3 time he told me to go around and for the commercial plane to take off!! it was the pilots on the ground that said they would set till i was down,
ATC are mostly sucks
Especially somewhere so busy like jfk, to ATC it's everyday stuff, they are expert in it and get annoyed by pilots who need clear answers
“contact Tracon @128.5” A ground controller could say that 500 times a day in his handoff. At some point there is a disconnect because your mind and your tongue.
I'm an LA chopper pilot and english as second language students flock here for training like crazy. It's quite hilarious listening to them pretty consistently. A part of me feels bad but you cant fuck around when it comes to safety and communication
"English"
@@Dunning.Kruger Yes
I once had the opportunity to address a class of foreign students. Stressing the importance of communications and understanding, one student responded with "We don't want to make controllers mad by asking them to say again". I told him/them when asked, "It's our job to 'say again' as often as necessary to get the message across" and encouraged them to call the tower should they encounter a controller not being professional. Shortly afterwards, an obviously elated student proudly exclaimed after his first solo, "I love you!" as part of his request to taxi back to his FBO. lmao I know bcoz I was in the tower when he said it.
There is a small regional airport in one of our suburbs where a lot of chinese piolets train -- was told by a couple different pilots they come here without knowing much, if any, english - are arrogant about learning and was told that in chinese air space, they pretty much refuse to speak english - would this be true? Or normal to speak chinese if both pilot and control in china?
@@JM-ig4ed its common for another language to be spoken if the pilot and controller both speak the same. A few of my friends have said it happens a lot around Europe.
"Expectation bias" - now I know what it is that I've had to contend with for years. Somebody will ask me something, I respond distinctly, and they hear whatever they were expecting. So very annoying, especially when a minute later they ask me the same question.
Co-pilot :- can you please retract the landing gear?
Kelsey :- Landing gear, coming up!
Kelsey:- Make sure you keep the blue side up!
Co-pilot and Kelsey is one and the same person.👍
Maybe kelsey is also the plane all along
@@ngd931 but he is also the airport
omg, laughed really hard on this one 😂
Reminds of the old joke.
BA pilot arrive at Frankfurt and is a bit hesitant in his taxiing.
German controller, slightly annoyed: "Have you never been to Frankfurt before?"
BA Pilot, reponding with a calm voice: "Yes. Twice in 1944, but I didn't land"
LMAO!!! Yeah. Really OLD joke but still good. I'll have to update that for my Iraqi veteran friend.
also the, "I am a German pilot, flying for a German airline at an airport in Germany. Why must I speak English here?"
*in a British accent* "Because you lost both bloody wars".
Have you ever been to Dresden? Yes but it was at night and only a flying visit 😉😊
Seems like WW2 jokes are still a big thing for non germans😂
@@BerryMyDick
And?
I’ve been watching your videos for a while now. You’re doing a great job. My son wants to become a pilot too, I’ll definitely recommend your channel to him. (He’s only 9 years old but he’s already flown twice in a real simulator). Keep up the good work, sir!
"Ok and you still haven't answered my question so whenever you get around to that that'd be great" that annoying tone though
To be honest.. i would be pretty anyed in that situation also
Almost reminded me of office space.
He started it though! haha...
It was an annoyed tone, not an annoying one. Personally, I loved her passive-aggressive way of telling that guy that he was being an idiot and wasting everyone's time.
It's the tone of a woman stuck in "argue mode" rather than "problem solve mode"
JFK controller didn't use the standard phraseology and that also confused Chinese pilots.
Indeed!
Also because they probably weren't expecting anything else.
-another Hans
Standard phraseology in the US... things we can only dream about! 🙄
So.. english?
@@ThatPianoNoob"ramp" is not standard phraseology. "apron" is. I understand the confusion for international pilots.
Air France pilot: “It’s a good thing he doesn’t know how much I hate his guts.”
Elaine: “It’s a good thing you don’t know how much he hates your guts.”
😂😂👍🏼
I watched Airplane! at least 100 tines. Haven’t seen it for decades but instantly recognized that quote.
@@MrJeffcoley1 o0
gotta love flying high
Surely you can’t be serious?🧐
I’m a Brazilian pilot and have been flying to the US since 1991. ( Started on B707, then B767, A330, as First Officer, and then as Captain on A320, and back to B767 ) Mostly To MIA, ORL,JFK,IAD ,VCV, and BOS. The US Controllers always did an excellent job when we had any kind of issues . ( heavy weather, sick passenger on board needing a special assistance, going back to the gate due to technical problems, and so on) When they realized that you are trying to do your best, they will help you like no others in the world. But as soon as they have a clue that you are trying to trick them ...you’re on you’re one. I have to say that once we heard an British pilot ( not from BA , by the way) having some communication misunderstanding , asked an JFK controller :
“ Sir ! Could you Please Speak English ...” We laugh out loud the whole approach !!!
One advice that I would like to point out is the good old school : PREPARE YOURSELF ! Study and KNOW your route, TMA Areas, all the Jeppesen Plates , SIDs STARs, IAL, ILS. the taxi ways, etc, all in advance ! Do your home work . Take a good look at the charts your going to use in the approach, and pay attention to the instructions !!! If you didn’t understand, or it didn’t make sense to you : ask them to SAY AGAIN . This is the best way to avoid embarrassing yourself and you’re Airline.
And always. : “ Kepp the blue up !!” Happy Landings 47 CREW
What are you talking about? I realize this a 1 year old comment. But JFK controllers speak English as per industry standard.
@@matt59fire That was the joke, that the non BA British pilot couldn't follow so asked the American ATC to speak English.
@@matt59fire 😂 dude obviously you didn't get the joke...
Gustavo
Do you fly at QR ?
I Always did Exactly as U , we are Highly Qualified Professionals, aren't we ?
Abrazo Grande from Giancarlo Garlaschi.
QR Commander (Ret ).
@@lisaflores2016
There is no room for jokes when you are flying a heavy airliner in the middle of a thunderstorm , budy !
Fly safe !
16:20 yes, the tone of that "ok" directly implied lots of swearing :D
First time I've heard a pilot dying inside from his voice :D
glad you brought up the issue with having to juggle ground and gate frequencies. im no pilot but I served in the army and we had a similar struggle. jumping between channels in the heat of an intense moment, like landing a plane or a fire fight.
I always thought switching frequencies just before landing was a bit crazy. Pilots have a Lot to do before arriving at an airport.
Next time Kelsey lands, he’s gonna hear...
“Saw your video...slow to 160, go around, land 4L instead of 4R and hold mike-alpha and expect November and gate 4 when I feel like it.”
Kelsey: Ok. Requesting fly by?
😂🤣
Anyone else hear Harold Faltermeyer?
yeh hed deserve it on this occasion
In NY Center radar, I made sure my trainees understood to speak slower, because it will take much more time, to repeat the transmission 2 or 3 more times...and time at “rushhour” is valuable...! Just a history insight back in the 80’s
Much rather spend 5 more seconds on a first delivery than 15 repeating it several times.
Finally... a comrade who gets it. Were you PATCO or NATCA? I was both and now happily retired.
@@MrClevet3 I was Patco, in 1968, I did as much as the Patco org wanted, but, after awhile, the head of Patco was in over his head. but I also was advocating a different approach than the strike..so, I went to work for 8.5 more yrs and then retired...
@@MrClevet3 enjoy your retirement...!
@@jackpijjin4088 DITTO
Kelsey, thanks so much for your channel. Flying has been a dream all my life and listening to flying speak broken down like you do is great. Thanks again and please don't EVER listen to ANY negativity or bad comments. Pleae don't stop doing your great videos.
Kelsey making fun of the negative comments + false claims is some of his best video work! He has comedic skills + plenty of confidence for certain to brush it all off.
True story, overhead as a passenger behind specified large plane:
ATC: "hold short runway ##",
Plane: "ok, cleared for runway ##",
ATC: "NO STOP STOP HOLD SHORT HOLD SHORT STOP STOP STOP",
Plane: "what? you said cleared for runway ##"
ATC: "no, i said hold short"
me, looking out the window, seeing a plane landing on the runway.
*sweating profusely*
Sounds like a code Brown.
Sounds like expectation bias 🤔
This episode seems to be a segue to a "Hollywood vs. Reality: Pushing Tin" episode. Very entertaining with something to takeaway, Kelsey.
Bryan Dorr Lol, exacty🤣 I was thinking the same thing!
This stuff always reminds me of that old email that went around years ago between ATC and a fighter pilot. The story goes, the fighter pilot calling ATC for a priority landing because his single-engine jet fighter was running "a bit peaked." ATC told the fighter jock that he was number two behind a B-52 that had one engine shut down. "Ah," the pilot remarked, "the dreaded seven-engine approach!"
As a french guy, when i'm tired, lazy or in a rush and speaking english or other languages, it happens that i ask something by an affirmative formed sentence because i've forgotten to turn it into a proper formed question. Usually, i realize my mistake but it's too late. It seems to me, the french pilot did the same...
Yes! it was a "lost in translation" thing. I've heard many french people talk like that, but since I'm very perceptive with languages (and I did study 2 years of French, 2 years of German and 2 years of Spanish), I can easily tell that's not exactly what they mean in English. They're actually querying, but it seems like they are _telling_ you in the affirmative! So, true, I think that's exactly what happened here!
@@747-pilot Danke/ Merci 747-pilot. Ich habe auch eins jahre Deutsch studeren (in 1996 ins Sudafrika) Don't French, Spanish, Potuegese and Latin all belong to the same language - group?
like Zulu, Xhosa and Swazi. (I'm trying to study French, but all the Universities or higher institutions are close. So it is very difficult...)
I doubt this is only a "lost in translation" situation. In French the situation is more complex, a question can be asked like in English as "Are you ill?" or as "You are ill?" with the intonation being that of a question. While this is done sometimes in English too, in French it is the most used way of asking a question, even if every teacher would tell you that it is just lazy colloquial speech and should not be done in important/official talk.
The big problem with it is visible in the video. You don't know until the end of the sentence if it was meant as a question or not, as the intonation of a question is done through the end of a sentence. Add confirmation bias or in this case a foreign language where it is not usual to ask questions that way, and you get these misunderstandings, just not hearing the intonation at the end. The bad audio transmission quality doesn't help either. Listening to the pilot multiple times I hear it as a question sometimes, sometimes as a statement.
Which is quite ironic because the English inversion to ask a question is not only the correct way in French too, but is also already a lazy variant in French. The French have an even more elaborate way of asking a question which eliminates all misunderstandings by using specific question words "Est-ce que...?" (similar to "why..." in English, just for general questions).
So if this pilot really asked it as a question, then he used the most lazy variant of asking a question available in French. Therefore I would argue that it is not (only) a problem of translation, but also a problem of not focusing on a clear language. In French he would probably be understood, but still get scolded for not using unambiguous language in an essential setting. While I can understand someone being tired or distracted or exhausted, this is more a mindset thing, being in colloquial "chatty" mode than it being a question of speaking a foreign language or being too exhausted. While that way of speaking can be a question in French, in a professional setting, where precision of language is required, it would probably never be used.
@@davidvanniekerk356 Yes, they are indeed related, but I did find French the most difficult of them all. All the different sentences appear to be "merged" into one sentence, and it can be very diffcult to figure out the context of what is being said. It's easy on paper, but the spoken enunciation is difficult to understand. Oddly enough, I found Spanish and German fairly easy!
Ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsche, aber ich habe viele vergessen. Das war viele jahre vor! (since it was an "immersion type" learning environment I"ve not forgotten everything!)
@@denidale4701 The ATC should remain professional himself though and not be a pissy little bitch about it.
With some of the controllers speaking as clear as a drunken sailor, they endanger air traffic
Yeah as do pilots who show up for duty inebriated. C'mon bruh, let's be fair. Retired controller/private multi-engine rated pilot.
In 1996 i was at a 737 plane entrance boarding, a pilot reaking of alchohol pushed me aside in a hurry to get in to the flight deck. I went to my seat while relizing what had just happened and not knowing what to do. On departure we had the steepest takeoff imaginable, i thought for sure we would stall. We made it to the destination where I vowed never again to stay on a flight with a drunk at the controls. The more i learn and see in life, the less i trust people to do quality driving or flying. Bring on the robo-taxis for me. God help us...
Awww poor chinese pilot I feel so sorry for him :( from his voice he felt like a very nice guy and was probably very intimidated.
I felt the same way.
I'm not sure whether I feel worse for the pilot or the passengers for how much danger they were potentially in without knowing. If I were on that flight I'd probably get cold chills finding out how rough the communication was.
The default setting for most New Yorkers is rude!!!
probably flustered out of his mind
ATC: Air China 981, cleared for pushback
Air China 981: Roger, cleared to Japan
Thing is, they probably were. Not likely Japan.. but before they called for push and start they likely heard something like.
Air China 982 cleared to Beijing via the GREKI SIX departure of 04L, flight plan route. Departure 135.9. Squawk 4747.
@@Bartonovich52 Missed the joke 🤦♂️
What joke?
You’re basically just stating the obvious of what happens all the time.
Dial up clearance delivery on Live ATC for any major airport and listen to planes that don’t even have their passengers on board yet getting cleared to their destination.
@@Bartonovich52 Ya. I missed the joke too. Try again.
@@Bartonovich52 that is nice to be cleared the whole way. Can drive as you want and when you want on the taxi way since they are cleared all the way.
Hey Kelsey I’m going to flight school and I just want to say thank you, your videos pushed me to do something I’ve always wanted to do
I'm British, when I watch American movies I have the subtitles on. Actors are supposed to be voice trained to be clearly understood.
These JFK Air Traffic Controllers need voice training. Mostly they need to talk normally and...matter-of-fact...without any annoyance and be understanding to foreign pilots.
I'm a GA pilot who has been flying GA airplanes for 50 years since I soloed at age 16 ten days after Buzz Aldrin wore the first Omega Speedmaster on the lunar surface. I'm also a lawyer who mostly practices Workers' compensation law when people get injured on the job. I can say this, there is not much of a personality difference between ATC controllers and Workers' compensation judges. They come in all types with similar ego's as well. I've actually been confused a few times and said "Roger" to a judge and "yes Judge" to a controller.
“Settle down captain happy” is probably the number one best ATC pilot conversation ever beyond the LA speed story!
Who is Cptn Happy lol?!
@@fsg7710
A Delta pilot who had a bad day.
It happened in Atlanta. A Controller asked the Delta pilot to do something and for some odd reason the Delta Pilot got offended and started bitching out loud on the comms.
Another pilot (Who had enough) basically responded "Settle down Captain Happy!"
@@cripplehawk I remember that one, I think it was on one of those "Kennedy Steve" videos, classic!
@@cripplehawk i need the link
@@cripplehawk Apparently actually a fake (or RP'd) clip from a flight sim channel, but did get reviewed by 74G (and no doubt elsewhere) as if real.
8:36 Especially when you come to Germany, because in Germany it is actually forbidden by law to make jokes on Flight radio or to talk about other things that have nothing to do with the current flight situation
Is the origin of the stereotype that Germans can't take jokes?
@@chaosXP3RT yes
Its interesting then having watched loads of the JFK interactions that the international carrier that gets the jokes and banter the most is Lufthansa.
@@LB1973 Maybe they have a lot of pent up joking from holding it in when in German airspace
I worked JFK as a ramp agent and they changed gears a lot on the ground much less in the air. We did international but if they were short handed, you'd have to do domestic loading and off loading. It's usually organized by a manager but sometimes we' d have to change duties suddenly. The coordination needed is amazing. Very busy.
You just found the highest-rated meme in Chinese aviation community
Hey 74Gear, as an approach controller, I enjoy your explanations and humor. The whole thing with JFK ATC to me is; they have too much attitude. I get it, it's busy. But to pull a 747 off the approach for a few knots airspeed is bordering on negligence. Where is it going to fit into the sequence again? Had she just created a bigger problem? Did you know that any ATC assigned speed can be flown plus or minus 10? If assigned 180, a pilot can fly 170 or 190 and there's a huge difference between the 2 when you're sequencing aircraft, trust me. I know when someone has taken my 160 assignment and reduced to 150! The Speedbird guy had a right to be a little miffed, he's off a long flight, 300 plus passengers etc and I know that their company does require 160 knots at the FAF. The controller was obviously trying to create space behind him, and the best way is to run an extra mile or so spacing with the following traffic and let it close up on final. Assigning Speedbird 160 or greater and citing the trailing traffic might get more cooperation. If you're running 4 miles behind a heavy 5 miles from the runway and need to keep it to the ground, it won't work.
It's great when professional controllers like you make comments! I respect your ATC abilities immensely! Noticed a few controllers being flippant with foreign pilots whose command of English is less than stellar. Some controllers might benefit from a bit more training on how to deal with these challenging situations diplomatically. It's got to be
frustrating when time is of the essence + effective communication isn't happening. Some of the pilots need to improve their English proficiency. I thought they had to take an English proficiency test? A friend is becoming a certified instructor for that. Don't all countries require the test, or only those who fly for U.S. airlines who need to be tested?
Great explanation, Thanks
The point is, someone's going around if he cannot maintain that speed. As Kelsey mentioned, it was nowhere near an unreasonable request for a 747 to hold 180 til 5DME. Pull the offender out and he will get more cooperative later. Yanking the guy behind due to no fault of his own? That is not the right call. Not sure where you practice your craft but JFK is consistently jamming 10 pounds of crap into a two landing runway bag. As N90 is always short handed you are welcome to give it a try.
100% on the attitude. not an ideal thing when you are dealing with thousands of ppl's lives
I still think it's nuts JFK have pilots communicate with ramp and atc at the same time. I think Dublin does it took it's a nightmare.
The coronavirus makes me watch all kinds of shit I didn't think I need to know in my life....but now I'm enjoying it :D
Same lol
Same like I just got to watch planes
You’re having to watch a lot of videos because leftist governments have locked you up in home incarceration.😢
When I was a flight coordinator of ground handling of our airline, I used to tell our operation staff to ask our pilots to make a request of the shortest runway to the arrival parking spot each time there were many short connection passengers and in most cases these pilots' request was accepted by the controller as long as the requested runway was available. Normally pilots don't know about ground handling situation without being specifically informed in advance and accept automatically what is told by the controller. Before I became a flight coordinator, it happened often that the longest runway to the spot was assigned by the controller and used by our pilots and we had lots of misconnection cases which consequently caused much financial damage to the company through useless expenses like hotel accommodations, meals, booking change fees that we could have avoided enough easily in many cases. At the airport where I was working for many years, the difference of time was 5 - 15 minutes according to each runway to choose and the ground traffic. For us even one minute of difference was really crucial to protect short connection passengers.
Sounds like a lot of pressure!
Sounds like ole Continental airlines before the merger, when I use to fly with them from east to west coast I always missed my connection to SAN out of Hou when they were redoing the runways and construction back in 06'-09'
Tower: "Seven Four Golf go around"
74G: "Why?"
Tower: "Cause I said so"
74G un-keys mic ands starts swearing in French.
It’s best practice to immediately state the reason. If you get to the next transmission you never say “because I said so”.
Ummmmm, he is American, not french
they were clearly having a conversation together ... pilot should have held the mic on while swearing about the cow in the tower then simply finish with whoops mic was still on.
@@madhavanramesan4770 *British
@@madhavanramesan4770 British
Best end to a pissing contest I ever heard was:
ATC: How would you like a hold?
Pilot: How would you like a comm failure?
That ended their jabs.
What does a comm failure mean?
@@JimS870 it means he will pretend his radio communications failed by just turning it off, making a fake emergency so he can forget the hold that atc wants him to do
LMAO!!! As a retired controller and private multi-engine rated pilot, I sooo hope that's a true story!
A great example of very poor air traffic control. ......
It should not be a "pissing contest" as you juvenile state...
Grow up....
@whybother now A professional Controller and Pilot environment should not be
a pissing contest.
A safe landing starts from the top of descent .
When some Controller wants to unstabilizing it on final approach because of their own poor Controller sequencing .
That Controller needs retraining.
JFK hasn't got the best of reputations. ......except for playing "pissing games".
Glad a Thumbnail of my video has made it into your videos. :D
please tell me if he asked for permission rather than stealing it or some shit lol
Oof
@@PlaneSpottingBerlin One would expect some kind of professionalism from a channel with 100K+ subs like you, maybe send him private mail or something, like "Hi Kelsey, I noticed that you used one of my pictures in your videos. I would like you to notify me in case you're using my pictures again in the future bla bla bla....", you figure it out. But apparently, not from you, you decided to draw attention in the comments. People's perception can be scary sometimes, especially on the internet. You could be unnecessarily drawing hate towards him or towards yourself, it's kinda double-edged blade. Better play it safe mate.
My first time seeing an emoji on a channel name 😮
now chill guys...it's only a goddamn frame.
Traffic controller: what's your status
Pilot: Nihao
Or “bonjour” 😂
@@Sergio-fu7mv 😂😂😂 French still understand English as they are close to Brits.
That’s Kennedy Steve. He’s retired now but he was brilliant. Can’t miss his voice. Fly safe Kelsey! Uraaaah!
Did you work with the guy?
@@matty6848 Hi there. No I did not. My ex was a fighter pilot and then commercial pilot and use to tell me all about him. And I have listened to him on the job via (you tube) and read about him. IMO he knew his stuff. I am a retired Marine and really like the get your sh*t squared away attitude. JFK IMO is crazy busy as is LaGuardia. Flown into both. Did you know him? 😎😃
Air China ATC is not Kennedy Steve as far as I can tell. This guy has southern twang and I have never heard that from Kenn Steve... His voice may have changed but I doubt that much. Tim F NZL
@Cindy Tartt On top of that KS is just sarcastic and does the odd pun. I have never heard him confrontational... so this is clearly some other guy. I am sure all tower conversations are reviewed either for cause or randomly and this chap is going beyond what KS would do. Chinese airlines have had some spectacular crashes outside PRC and presumably a few inside which have been hushed up. When you listen to this it is surprising that there have not been more. Tim F
@@lmae989 no I never knew him either but he sounds like a interesting guy. I’ll have to keep a look out for him on TH-cam and social media👍
My all time favorite radio exchange:
"hot mic, hot mic"
"This is Hot Mike, send it."
I've been addicted to ATC videos for months, love to see your perspective on them. Awesome video!
Really like the explanation of 'expectation bias' and it impact on what you think you hear. I have been teaching about this problem for year in coaching canoeing and the coach not truly listening to the clients answers. Really useful way of labelling it. Thank you.
I was a C-130 pilot in the USAF when, after landing at Chicago O’Hare, the ground controller gave us a rapid string of taxi instructions. I just sat in stunned silence, until he patiently offered progressive taxi instructions as if I were a young child.
That's just condescending. Did you give it back once you had arrived at your gate?
But a civil aircraft pilot can't do that.
@@sukritmishra6676 Not it’s not. They’re used to dealing with familiarized pilots. If any new pilot to an airport is given 5 taxiways rapid fire they won’t remember. Good pilots know when to say “Say again” or “unfamiliar and I need a progressive taxi”.
No not a young child. Hopefully his delivery/phraseology effected successful communication of his instruction(s). Anything else implied or otherwise, would be reflective of his lack of professionalism.
@@MrClevet3 Not unprofessional, but like the exasperation of a teacher going through an entire explanation again because the student didn’t get it the first time.
While operating a B727 freighter at night out of the cargo complex at JFK some years ago I received a clearance like, "Cleared to cross 31L then left on Alpha further routing in about a minute." The clearance was read back and as we crossed 31L the ground controller issued the following clearance : "Cross Alpha onto the ramp, do a 180 and hold short of Alpha". We acknowledged but he felt the need to explain.: "We have a Chinese 747 coming around the corner in a minute that hasn't talked to anyone since he was on Approach Control. We think we know where he is going but foe now just hold short of Alpha." Sure enough, a few moments later this huge 747 comes around the corner with every exterior light ablaze and not talking to anyone.
Tiggers DAD whattheeeeeeee😳
I wonder if this sort of thing happens because they know any sort of complex communication will just make everything more confusing.
Tiggers DAD Tenerife waiting to happen !!
This reminded me of the day back in the early 1970s, when a 747 was picked up on radar heading for Heathrow (London), from a direction not on any flightpath.
When ATC could not make contact, fearing a electrical or mechanical failure on the aircraft, the airport went to full emergency, ceasing all departures and putting about 30 incoming flights into a holding pattern. Fire trucks lined both runways and ambulances were called to the airport.
The fully loaded 747 made a normal landing, stopped at the end of the runway, the door opened and the pilot stood at the opened door scratching his head and looking puzzled.
When security arrived and managed to find a portable ramp to board, one of the passengers acted as translator and told them that the flight crew did not contact ATC because none of them spoke or understood a single word of English.
The captain could not believe his eyes when he saw the size and complexity of Heathrow. The newly formed African airline were immediately banned from landing in the UK or flying across UK controlled airspace.
Although that one was the tip of the iceberg, ATC regularly had communication problems with African flights in those days.
@@wilsjane but how did they manage to get ahold of a 747 in the first place?
"No, it´s not! They lied to you!" -killed me
I love ATC videos, and now I’m glad to see you do one. You add more to them and make them better!!!
thats the point of doing these, to help people understand more of whats going on.
@@74gear Great to get the commentary on it instead of just reading the comments on what everyone else thought of it.
@@74gear Kelsey you are awesome! Thank you for all you teach & do for safety in aviation!
As an Air Traffic Controller in the center environment (and an instrument rated private pilot), I think you had a great description of what occurred in the clips. The one with Air China 981.... English is the language of aviation to those countries that subscribe to ICAO. And while China theoretically subscribes to ICAO, I am sure that English is not used the same in China as it is other places. Therefore, there is a really good chance that the pilot's possibly had translation issues. I have personally seen similar issues with Mexican pilots who have mistaken clearances despite the pilot responding in English.
this is kind of an outdated take on Chinese English standards. many Chinese speak English, especially since the advent of the internet age. most likely an older pilot would have more trouble than anyone 30 or younger
Dude it’s 2022 now, more Chinese speaks proper English than Americans, how outdated and backward your ancient thinking is lol.
@@VeggieRice But that incident with CA981 probably took place 10-15 years ago since the video has floating around forever. That pilot would definitely be well over 30 now.
10:26 I thinks it's mostly an accent thing. Americans in the Midwest and East Coast tend to speak faster than Americans from down South or out West.
Although I can sympathize with the Chinese pilot. I tried to learn French. Native French speakers talk so fast. It's hard for me to understand.
Are they as smug as we Americans? BTW... "we" not a play on words. lmao
Chinese people speak at the speed of light.
@@Ballsackgamin Not in English.
There's also an assumption that what sounds totally different to an English speaker/listener also sounds totally different to a foreigner. If you have ever tried to speak Chinese, you know that what sounds near identical to you, are totally different to a Chinese person, and it's not just about 'tone'. For an English person listening to a foreigner attempting English, they can make huge mistakes and we could usually still understand; but that it absolutely not true in the other direction....if a non-Chinese person hears a word that is even slightly incorrect, it becomes totally unintelligible - there seems to be very little scope for error in Chinese.
Still, you'd have thought they would have 'learned' that in their training, so perhaps it is simply confirmation bias, or indeed accent (I know there are some US accents that I cannot understand (I'm English)).
People in the Mid West speak slow, and people in the South speak fast.
That disappointed ‘ok’ from AF just made my whole day
Having listened in to approach and tower frequencies at YVR, I have heard the odd funny banter between both parties. With the tower/ approach (many years ago and late at night) requesting a faster speed of 180 and the aircraft requesting 160 or 170 . The tower/approach came back with “SOLD, 160 (or 170 knots)” done very quickly, professionally and comically. The briefly chuckle on both mikes was great to hear. Despite YVR being a pretty busy airport typically, they can manage to handle traffic well and are not as short with pilot as the busier American hubs. Just a bit more friendly.
Auctioneers be like:
200 words per minute with gust up to 300.
I increase my speed to over 1,000 knots lol! (Flying in 1969 on a Concorde)
You really need a 3-person flight crew for these busy airports. Last-minute runway changes and taxi directions means you need those other frequencies queued up on standby and you can have a person getting gate clearance from ramp while the pilot monitoring is talking to tower or ground. You can easily go through 10 radio frequencies between approach and gate- especially for PRM/SOIAs when you have to monitor a second frequency.
Only the French can make the "ok" sound just like "FU" 🤣
Just imagine the BO in that cockpit though.
Try speaking North American French in Paris if you want to see eyes roll ! Such an insult ! In Canada, we talk about "la fin de semaine", while Parisians call it "le weekend". Ya just can't win.
I just imagine Pam from Archer when she goes "okay" when somebody is acting like a little shit.
Ok Control calling Pan Pan Pan Pan..
I need next available runway.. 🤣
@@iangray7410 That's not French you speak in Canada, "mon ami", it is Québécois.
Your videos are amazing... Even though I'm not a Pilot and I don't understand 50% of the detailed info you explain, I have been an aviation enthusiast since I was a little boy, and I find every video of yours very well explained and always entertaining. :D Much love from Ecuador
So hilarious. You just have such a great delivery when dealing with this kind of back and forth. So well done. LMAO. Cheers and keep up the great work.
I used to train pilots for air china and shanghai in the US. I can confirm they didn't understand ATC even after graduating..
I can speak English quite well , but when i visit US the first and only time , i had issues to understand a guy behind a counter in McDonalds it was so embarrassing 🤦♂️ Yeah and I don't understand those ATC guys in videos either 😅 They speak so freaking fast...and mumble...
@@terrabiker Imagine me taking 3 years of French in highschool, 3 years in University, going to Belgium and being lost as what was being said. At least I could read the signs, lol. Native speakers of a language can speak so fast sometimes, hard to follow.
As a native speaker I can't always understand ATC (although I'm not a pilot). The pilot may have only been able to catch a few key words in there.
It's possible he may not have realized he was being asked a question and not an instruction since the vocabulary is a bit different to the usual ATC dialogue. If he learned English specifically for flying, he's probably more familiar with ATC than regular conversation; once he was told to hold he immediately did so.
@@drd675 I remember feeling really confident about my skills in a Spanish class. Then we did an exercise trying to listen to a native speaker and I felt like an idiot
It made me a bit nervous! A bit scary, glad the pilot understood at last!
Hey mate, great video. I was skeptical at first when I saw the "pilot reacts" thing (I'm a former C-130 pilot), but great explanations. I just subscribed.
I really liked this video. Kelsey did a great job detailing things out. Like using the charts, which I understand a bit being a simmer, to help make it easier to understand. Real interesting stuff. Great job man!!!
ATC: "NO, that was a question. Have the ramp people cleared you into the gate?"
Pilot: Roger to the gate Air China 981
"God dammit Jian-Yang!!!!"
It's Li Xi Ping now. 😆
Ha ha nice SV reference! This killed me :)
ATC -go around
Kids- holds the pattern
Men-argue with atc
Legends-MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY
LMAO
Now where is that option in Flight Sim? :D I usually just ignore and land.
When I was a kid all I wanted to do is be a pilot. My high school counselor said that wasn't a viable career option for me because I wasn't good at math. Now here, Kelsey is saying he is terrible at math and he is a 747 pilot? My whole life has been a lie!
Why would you let teachers dictate your career choice?
And you believed him? You think his airline would put him a 747 with poor mathematical skills?
Some times you need to run quick calculations, I don't think kelsey is average at math.
Your skills aren't set in stone, they can improve immensely with training.
Maybe when you start your own airline you should name it Soupair. Sorry, I can’t help it.
Actually, the French treat "ou" and "u" as two different sounds, so he needs to keep it supair. I know, I must be fun at parties.
@@tanujkumar1576 pardon my french.
Try harder. lmao
My nephew is a pilot flying a small jet for executives in large corporation globally. I asked him what was the hardest part of his job, was it making the flight plan? He said, “No, a company does that for us and I just review it.” Was it communicating with the air traffic controllers around the world? “No” he said, “English is the universal language, except the French with their strong French accent is sometimes hard to understand and if ask them to repeat a couple times, they get irritated…. But truthfully, it’s hard just staying awake.”
I did medical claims over the phone for a huge insurance company. Learning corruption from the inside was enough to run me out- but the inbound calls into us shifted to offshore agents within about 2 years. A queue of young Indian and Malaysian kids attempting to reconcile medical jargon in severe broken english was the most intolerable hell ive experienced.
I completely understand the uncontrolled frustration of the controller.
This is so funny. Kelsey have you ever had a situation like that?
I am not sure to which video you are referring but if its Air China, I have messed up calls but not to the degree they did it.
Lol it was the air China that was a rough transmission.
@@74gear i was not trying to insult you the question was in my next comment it was a long question
Nobody:
ATC: asks question
Pilot: *does the question*
I just love the tone on the resigned "Ok" of the Air France pilot. It's so perfect 😆
Happy New Year, handsome!
You forgot to tell us where you were.
Thanks for another great video!
Awesome video! Have you commented on the Harrison Ford vs ATC one? Thanks for everything!
No, but that could be a future video, thanks for the idea 👍
It's fantastic xD
ATC: You landed on [taxiway] Charlie.
Ford: Uh, I landed on Charlie?
ATC: Possible pilot deviation...
Kelsey, I’m hooked! I don’t know anything about aviation but I find you video very interesting and informative. Keep it up!
" Expectational bias "
I learned something today . A light in the memory bank has just lit .
If you're looking for something fascinating to learn about, there are dozens of cognitive biases that we have that you might not even be aware of. It can be an interesting thing to learn about them and it will shed some light on how you think and perceive the world.
Expectation bias. You expected there to be an "-al" suffix there to form an explicit adjective, but it was actually an attributive use of the root noun. :)
Considering how briefly and quickly Air Traffic Controllers speak, I have always been surprised that there are not more miscommunication mishaps at busy airports like JFK, where you have so many non-native English speaking pilots. Easy to see why ATC is such a stressful job.
I agree. There seems to be an arrogance about the USA dialects by all Americans. The world is grateful for subtitles added to American films streamed.
@@mackwiz1 ... "arrogance about the USA dialects by all Americans," is certainly not true! Sorry you got this perception. We tease each other about different dialects at times. How/where did you get this impression?
@@concierge7574 : It is well known in the world that Americans expect complete understanding of their dialects from visitors, and yet we have a slight accent...not even that! I was shocked by a person when was in a shop who said he didn't know what I was asking.
I thought it was MSFS
Usually, it takes about 2000-3000 hours of learning for an East Asian language native to gain decent English proficiency. That is no less than the flight hours required for a trainee to be eligible to apply for ATPL. I would like to send a big cheer for any non English native pilots and other professionals who are struggling to overcome language barrier.
no offence, but If you have still not aquired decent english capabilities as a pilot, especially a huge aircraft, like in the videos, one should not be able to get a pilot in the first place.
Very entertaining for listening, but concerning that the Chinese pilot doesn’t seem to be able to communicate in English well enough .
No its a tactic to skip the line and get into ramp early.
@@AaronShenghao and many of Air China’s pilots have a very hard time with English. I’ve watched them blow hold shorts on active runways, get lost on taxiways, and I could go on but it’s not just a tactic.
I'd rather believe the expert (Kelsey) and say it's confirmation-bios
We shouldn't be letting air china land here anyways.
Chinese pilots flying in China always communicate in Mandarin with ATC and are not required to learn English: a domestic airline pilot likely can't speak English at all.
It's been like this for decades until recently the CAAC announced that Chinese airspace would adopt the use of English further.
Love this video. I was a passenger on an Aeroflot flight in Moscow and I was able to hear the tower using my Walkman as I remember. It was fascinating.
Imagine being one of those postal delivery pilots who only had cement arrows constructed on the ground to guide them.
Aviation sure has come a long way in a very short time.
Have you had any interactions with the "World Famous Kennedy Steve?"
His jokes are really good.
I reckon he's retired
@@sirmium12 have heard he's working with ramp now o-o
@@sirmium12 he is retired. Captain Joe has a great interview with him.
@@sirmium12 i think he is, and i remember Captain Joe interviewing him too
@@sirmium12 he is retired. But that doesn't mean K never worked with him.
NEED GOOD OL KENNEDY STEVE BACK, WHAT A GOOD OLD FASHIONED BB BREAKER, BUT NICE!
NONE BETTER!
@@robertl.fallin7062 HE WAS SO QUICK AND WITTY! A TRUE PLEASURE AND A PRO, 1ST TIME I HEARD HIM, HE WAS EXPLAINING SOMETHING TO A I BELIEVE A CHINESE CAPT, WITH A WICKED ACCENT, STEVE WAS NICE TO CALL I THINK A 727, LOOK FOR THE "BIG ORANGE PUMPKIN WITH WINGS" AS 5 TIMES NORMAL DID NOT SINK IN, AND A WISECRACK FROM SEEMS LIKE 10 OTHER PILOTS ON ALL TAXIWAYS, WITH THERE LAUGHTER AND WISECRACKS, GOOD OLD STEVE MADE A NEW FRIEND, AND ALL WERE SAFE!!!!!!! PURE CLASS!
lol, these vids are great. love watching your live reaction to them as you play them back. Excellent explanations too.
Always enjoy the ATC/Pilot chats....even better when you have a REAL pilot translating/laughing with you. LOL
As a Brit who’s done his fair share of flying in the US, i often wonder if Elvis gotten himself a job working ATC
Hahahaha so true
European flying in Florida, I totally agree!
@Frank Silvers thanks for clearing that up! If you live anywhere in Europe, you are European. In this context it doesn't really matter where you live in Europe... I don't understand why you took the time to make this comment.
@Frank Silvers it is about non- US pilots flying in the US, about understanding ATC. Do I really have to explain this to you?
@Frank Silvers You watched the video, right?
I really don’t know how I got here but I’m so glad! This is fascinating! I’ve been binge watching your entire channel! Really great content!🖤✨
I’m a guy who originally from Mainland of China and started my aviation life as well as my English lingo learning in Canada at about the same time back in 2013, I think I can probably explain the story why did China 981 mistakenly keep thinking that transmission from ATC “ Have you been cleared to the gate?” wasn’t an interrogative question. It was because of the rising/falling tone or intonation at the end of the sentence. To most of Mandarin speaker if a question that expresses uncertainty, the voices of the last word of the question usually does NOT drop but only rises at the end, or put it this way , usually as a non-native English speaker most of people expect “ Have you been cleared to the gate? ”to be ended with a rising tone as simple as your wife asking “are you going home?(ended with a rising tone) ” and you should simply answered by “ Yes my lord I’m going home.”with the absolute flat/falling tone. Especially back in earlier days English learning was not as popular as now days in mainland of China. It was like the black and white language regulation to us, the only few exceptions of having the voice drops/falls at the end are those information questions which begin from “how, what or when”. So that’s basically how we justify if it was a question or an assertive sentence by relying on the slight differences between the rising/falling English intonations. Me, as a pilot flying in Canada commercially who once made a position report to the local female ATC “xxx, 2000ft over xxxxxx Bitch(supposed to be the word “beach”) back in 2015. I’m still alive & keep working on my English everyday. :)
"Have you been....?" is a grammatically correct question no matter how you put it. Tone is irrelevant. The only time tone is relevant is when a sentence could elicit dual purpose that is both answer and question at the same time, eg; "You have been cleared to the ramp?". In this case this could mean either one depending on where syllable emphasis occurs , but it is nonetheless NOT a grammatically correct question.
Your written English is very good.
When you learn English in China, or maybe in other countries, do they teach you that "have" is also a question word? I'm wondering if that might have helped. Honestly, I feel really bad for the Air China guy, and the very obvious language barrier. That ATC guy needed to be a little more patient. Mandarin and Cantonese, being only two of several tonal languages, have very different rules. I don't know them, I just know that if you say something in one tone or inflection, it can be one word, and if you change the tone, it's something completely different. Americans do not understand this, generally. I feel like ATC people need to be taught how to speak to ESL pilots with more patience and kindness.
@@AmyAndThePup Are you joking ? The ATC guy is supposed to be more patient ?? These guys flying airplanes around other planes with many many souls on board, if they unable to safely communicate they have 0 aka ZERO business endangering anyone... zero excuse accepted when it comes to a dangerous industry...
@@aungkhant502 the distinction is lost across some languages as they have different ways of asking questions. take french for example, the only difference between a statement and a question is lifting your tone at the end of the sentence. if someone’s first language judges questions based on tone rather than phrasing, it can make it hard to interpret questions and statements with languages like english which use phrasing.
Ok but English is not a tonal language. The rise and fall of it is irrelevant most of the time, the interrogative grammar of "Have you...?" precedes any tonal inference. I understand thats difficult to learn going from Mandarin to English but its something that pilot needs to do; to stop listening to English looking for the tonal cues of Mandarin because he's not going to get them.
I love aviation and am fascinated by all aspects of commercial and military aviation and the history thereof. Your explanations to various problems of aviation and the solutions make it understandable and enjoyable. Thank you, Kelsy. Safe travels, always.
Hi Kelsey! Your vids are seriously addicting, thanks for the amazing content.
😂😂😭😭the snoop dog clip had me dying, I had to share this 😭😭😭😭😭
Thanks for explaining the taxiway/gate correlation on the Air China clip. I've always wondered where they got November
BTW, the ATC in the Air France clip is Kennedy Steve. He's a treasure, but he retired in 2017. He could be a bit curt, but being a ground control @KJFK has got to be one of the most miserable, thankless jobs in aviation. I cannot count on my fingers the number of times that I've been on an AA flight out of there on a Friday evening when they were backed up 30+ for departure.
BTW, there are bunches of Kennedy Steve videos here on TH-cam.
I really enjoyed this. I used to be a cab dispatcher in the old days. 22 cars, radio. With pen and paper keeping track of everyone in my head.
It took me two weeks to get my radio ear in the place. Fun times.
6:00 Your exactly right. That’s Logan INTL in Boston Massachusetts. The second I saw the tower I could tell after living there for about 11 years before moving.
Air France "Supere" pilot to his co-pilot: "Merde". LOL . I've run into lots of Chinese that speaks English very fast, you can't tell what they're saying.
Side note: Air China and Air France controller at Kennedy is the same dude.
Good ear.
Kennedy Steve by chance? Kinda sounds like him.
@@sergnoff94 I thought it was KS too. He's retired now, and it sure sounds there like he needed to.
@@karekarenz4713 Yeah, kinda does. OTOH, as jobs with a built-in glide-path to burnout goes, being responsible for thousands of lives at a time and yelling at pilots all day has to be right up there!
@@sergnoff94 No, this is not Kennedy Steve.
As a 747 Captain flying into JFK for 27 years, I know exactly how confrontational and aggressive ATC can be - especially with foreign carriers whose first language is not English- they speak very casually and very fast, if you do not know what they are going to say it is hard to follow and if you don't get it first time it is almost impossible to get a word in edgeways - same at EWR........ the Canarsie approach (not this one) is especially difficult for a 747, 13L and worse 13R. If you fly into London the difference is enormous - no shouting, no dragging your aircraft in at low level for extended periods.Proper ATC language spoken at a reasonable speed so that everyone can understand . I took London air traffic controllers into JFK on the flight deck, and they were shocked at New York/JFK ATC. I have had to do 'S' turns on finals to the 31's in order to avoid a go-around because I was turned in too early - I had the skill and flexibility because of experience - a colleague had to go-around.......... If you are landing on 22L you clear the runway and and are immediately bombarded with an entry point to the ramp by ATC - when you may not have been able to find out - stabilised approaches have been high on the agenda for pilots for safety reasons for a long time and quite rightly so - ATC have an important role but the buck stops with the pilots - so 74Gear (first officer I note)we do not all agree with you.
I'm glad you like the service we provide here at EGLL. It all looked like a gash bit of controlling to me; which based upon numerous accounts from crews who are in as regular as you have been, gives the impression it's a bit 'cowboy'ish'. The above demonstration of poor vectoring/speed control does little to diminish that opinion.
Kelsey seemed bias in this one. Quite disappointing
sure, that really happened. I'm sure that as a 747 pilot, you're always picking up your friends from Heathrow ATC & ferry them across the Atlantic just to get annoyed & have your back, right?
Your claim that Heathrow ATCs speak slower doesn't track--Heathrow is one of the busiest airports in the world, just like JFK, they are dealing with dozens or hundreds of flights each, they do not speak slowly.
You may have a preference for the Queen's English, but others do not. Queens English has not been an ESL standard since the 70s.
also thumbing your nose at his rank, after saying you disagree with him, but he's just a 'lowly first officer,' was extra sh!tty. You seem like a prat. Happy trails, dbag