3 Generations Of Roland TR 606

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 163

  • @Doctormix
    @Doctormix  3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    ❤️ Check the Roland 606 Cloud ► www.rolandcloud.com/catalog/legendary/tr-606 ❤️

    • @teoigi3247
      @teoigi3247 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      My heart hurts, you have all the cool toys.

    • @BillyBatsonMarvel
      @BillyBatsonMarvel 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Eff that cloud 💩

    • @AndreasBergstedt
      @AndreasBergstedt 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@BillyBatsonMarvel yep $20/month to get the TB/TR collection is BS!

    • @BillyBatsonMarvel
      @BillyBatsonMarvel 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @ Andreas Bergstedt a brilliant revenue stream business model of separating idiots from their money on a consistent basis. I'm not supporting that model for plugins and DAWs. Damn blood suckers feeding on my wallet nonstop.

    • @geengedoe1304
      @geengedoe1304 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Mate how to dowland that program where’s the link of it ???? From the computer wel I’ve got a MacBook form 2012/13 so

  • @FattSunny
    @FattSunny 3 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    The TR series is timeless. 300 years from now they will still be banging!

    • @FattSunny
      @FattSunny 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @Joachim Becker That's the thing about these machines! Every new drum machine software or hardware is trying to emulate the sounds that come from them. They are the standard for what non live drums should sound like. Something's in the universe will always be what they are, like gold. Sure there are others that shine but gold is the one all others get measured by. For example the Kicks from the TR series are the best ones possible to create there will never be any better, and if someone comes up with one it won't be a kick they will have to make up a new name for their sound. Sorry for babbling on.

    • @Phantasma999
      @Phantasma999 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      You may be right. We're still seeking for flutes, recorders, violins, and other instruments from 300 or more years ago

  • @kirabarsmith9353
    @kirabarsmith9353 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    You know you're cool when Roland sends you a vintage 606. Best demo I've seen of the TR-06 as well, sounds sweet!

  • @moetarded7757
    @moetarded7757 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Thank you Roland!! Nice when a company is this proud for their legacy they can't help but remind us how we got were we are....plus we old dogs got some tricks up our sleeves for the young bucks.

  • @kyraandamysdad
    @kyraandamysdad 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I had the original: if you use the external TTL sync to set the tempo, the built-in tempo control adjusts decay times that normally always scale with tempo, giving you a little extra control over the sounds.

  • @tallmansweden
    @tallmansweden 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Love your videos. Your enthusiasm and positive energy is contagious. If I feel down I watch one of your videos and it always makes me smile.

  • @Phantasma999
    @Phantasma999 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    The 606 hats are unmatched

  • @treblehead79
    @treblehead79 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    You may be the only other person I know of who pronounces "Autechre" correctly. Wonderful vid. Huge fan of the 606 and I'm geeked to using the software version and making another sample library obsolete.

  • @jamilboricua
    @jamilboricua 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    6:59 808snap

  • @mheijink
    @mheijink 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Another nice video on this Friday evening. Having a TB-03 and TR-06 and still discovering its awesome features. Stay cool and healthy. 😉

  • @hiroyukioomura1036
    @hiroyukioomura1036 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I'd love to see a recreation of non-ACID music production using the TB-303 and TR-606, as Roland envisaged in the 80s.

    • @WorksopGimp
      @WorksopGimp 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Imaginations Just an Illusion is a track that uses the TB as a bass th-cam.com/video/nH6rInAE9rk/w-d-xo.html

    • @hiroyukioomura1036
      @hiroyukioomura1036 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@WorksopGimp
      Hi John. Thanks for the link.
      I see, the TB-303 has to have that acid sound to be noticed.

    • @austinpoznoski3083
      @austinpoznoski3083 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      check out The Adults Are Talking by The Strokes and Burn the Witch by Radiohead. both modern non-acid songs based on 606 patterns

    • @ezzong
      @ezzong 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Check out Big Black, noise/punk rock band with TR 606 dubbed "Roland" as the drummer.

  • @Raffael-Tausend
    @Raffael-Tausend 3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    don't forget the 707! its my favourite of the TR-s!

    • @888berg
      @888berg 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Or the 727.... those latin vibes:))

    • @normdurkin6425
      @normdurkin6425 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      ..that just means you never owned a TR-909.. lol

    • @vhsx
      @vhsx 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@normdurkin6425 or you can own both and prefer one ya dingle

    • @normdurkin6425
      @normdurkin6425 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@vhsx ..or have owned both and prefer better options..

    • @vhsx
      @vhsx 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@normdurkin6425 better is subjective. that’s way you can’t make blanket statements like that. if you like early acid house, you might like the 707 more. they also have different workflows. maybe you don’t care about tweaking sounds because you want simplicity.

  • @missingdogmusic
    @missingdogmusic 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Nice timing, Doc. I just received my Behringer reimagined RD-6 today and even though it is not the real deal, it is close enough to be useful and loads of fun. Lost my OG 606 many moons ago unfortunately; decided against rebuying second hand due to the age showing on many units.

    • @watercolourmark
      @watercolourmark 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Surprised he could make this video with that elephant in the room. TR-606 is history. And the TR-06 is as software as a Roland TR-606 software plugin is. Ironically the RD-6 is the best 606 for sale today, and at software prices.

    • @cresshead
      @cresshead 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@watercolourmark the dinsyn tt-606 is probably the most full featured analog remake of the tr606 having many more features like gate length etc.
      however theRD-6 has a great pricepoint and is really close to the 1981 tr606..not many added bells n whistles except, clap, individual outs, variable open hat length and a distortion pedal.... AND many colorways to pick from including translucent cases!

  • @l1f3g1v3r
    @l1f3g1v3r 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great video! Picked mine up in 2001 for $20 as my first drum machine. Its cool to see it getting some love.
    I used to like running it through an Ibanez Smashbox for boost and grit.

  • @lairdtomfrenchelectromusic2545
    @lairdtomfrenchelectromusic2545 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Roland...A Big brand which no longer has to probe itself...
    But which has not finished surprising us !!!
    Thank you Doctor Mix for your talented demonstration.
    And once again your communicative ENERGY !!!

  • @keyd33
    @keyd33 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ciao Claudio, always a pleasure to see you playing with all these gears

  • @janbockma1509
    @janbockma1509 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    ‘Tom...hi Tom!’
    Tom: ‘Hi Claudio!’

  • @avarlin
    @avarlin 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Nice seeing another Roland fanboy enjoying his kit :)

  • @FarrellMcGovern
    @FarrellMcGovern 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love Roland's analog drum machines...I have a BOSS DR-110 that I love the heck out of. Good stuff.

  • @dsmyify
    @dsmyify 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    You know what's great about the 606... the accompanying 303. They're a match made in heaven.

  • @angthekeys621
    @angthekeys621 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    In logic there’s a nice emulation in the electronic drums sounds, not so’ playable like the originals, but useful in sequencing projects

  • @reeread
    @reeread 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thank You 606 heaven

  • @cottonfoo
    @cottonfoo 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's so nice to listen to. Reminds me of people like Todd Terry. Love it.

  • @MichaelMonn
    @MichaelMonn 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Gosh, I love your energy.

  • @robbpeppertree
    @robbpeppertree 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The TR-606 is under-rated IMO. My favourite of the Classic x0x Series. Pair this with a TB-303, and you don't need anything else.

  • @PhillyTom
    @PhillyTom 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The Doctor brings it every video. Awesome. I’m just starting some music stuff. Give a 🎧

  • @shinyless
    @shinyless 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Roland knows what's up :) Love you Claudio !

  • @TINProjects
    @TINProjects 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    The unboxing sticy note. Look @it, woops, listen to it!! ❤️

  • @JustLocal
    @JustLocal 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I just discovered stuff like that in GarageBand, but not that simple! It is there! 😷👋🏻

  • @JoeTjoepJoep
    @JoeTjoepJoep 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    10:35 brings me way back to Adonis - No Way Back. Sweeetttt

  • @Droidbot_electro
    @Droidbot_electro 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Modern drummatix is awesome... but,... old 606 snare,could be the only reason id buy it 🥰⚡

  • @Lu_Woods
    @Lu_Woods 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I miss my Drumatix, though I dig the many alternatives these days.
    Thanks Claudio !!

  • @ozbaldbiscuits7230
    @ozbaldbiscuits7230 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I understand the purist argument about the original analogue sound. But you can mess around and create much more with the later versions.
    Of course, Mr DM has all three...
    I'm, respectfully, incredibly envious of you, sir. 😛😘😘
    Another great vid by the way.👍

  • @djpopcorns
    @djpopcorns 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice!
    I Like what the gain does on the software kick drum. BOOM! What would you suggest to get that same around using the original TR606?

  • @basiledaudet5774
    @basiledaudet5774 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    The kick and snare are sooo good ! I can’t recreate these with the 808…

  • @touiarrial5823
    @touiarrial5823 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I like the effects on TR06: do you think Roland will release the same for TR09? Thanks

  • @epicryan3745
    @epicryan3745 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    i love doctor mix

  • @MLL2B
    @MLL2B 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Bonjour Doc.. Tu es excellent.. Tu dégage vraiment une très bonne énergie.. Merci beaucoup pour tes partages et tes vidéos.. 👍

  • @nbuehster
    @nbuehster 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I didn't think about this until now, but there needs to be special holidays for producers/DJs.
    In this case, it would be June 6th.

  • @steveramond
    @steveramond ปีที่แล้ว

    I already have the Roland Cloud TR-606, and I'm wondering if, in terms of sound, it would bring me something new or different to purchase the TR-06?

  • @UnkyDwain
    @UnkyDwain 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Best sounding Drum machine ever! Except for the Linn....maybe. But is the 606 software the same as 06 hardware?

    • @steveramond
      @steveramond ปีที่แล้ว

      I've been wondering about this for a long time, but it seems like no one can answer it seriously 😄

  • @Andy-From-England
    @Andy-From-England 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi great to see you again TH-cam un subbed me for some reason its done it with a few channels and people....it just hit me other day I thought not seen Dr mix for a few months so searched thats when I found out
    Them drum machines did some really good hits for lot of 80s synrh groups

  • @artao5
    @artao5 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Have you any experience with the Behringer clone? Thoughts on that one?

  • @onionhat9141
    @onionhat9141 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    literally a beast

  • @LiveReview
    @LiveReview 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ha... Nice review and comparison :) Thank you for your experience!

  • @DH-fu7bx
    @DH-fu7bx 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    While the modern 606 has cool features you can achieve those sounds by using effects like the boss delay

  • @annother3350
    @annother3350 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm curious -- the original one did a variation of hi-hat when you put an open and closed hat at the same point -- a kind of choked off hat between opne and closed. I wonder if they recreated that in the new ones??

  • @wuukaa9079
    @wuukaa9079 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Omg man, I don't know why but you are getting less views 😭😭 you deserve way more! We feel the amount of work you put in your videos and it's awesome!! Anyway wish you popularity 😁

  • @ZozillaThaGreat
    @ZozillaThaGreat 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Exellent as usual , do you guyz know if the TR 8S has all engines of the TR or it is samples ?

  • @rjbush7955
    @rjbush7955 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice. Do you think Roland will make a TR-07 which is the next gen of 707? They could also include 727 sounds.

  • @tonymorales740
    @tonymorales740 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I need a new display for my 505. Any ideas where to get one?

  • @atommachine
    @atommachine 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The Flintstones have a 606
    It Rocks !!! :0 nice vid

  • @chloedevereaux1801
    @chloedevereaux1801 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    try a VST plugin called rebirth 303 its from around 2003-4.. its pretty awesome.

    • @mechanicom
      @mechanicom 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I’m sure Claudio knows about rebirth 🙃

    • @Doctormix
      @Doctormix  3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I do! 😁

    • @synthetic24
      @synthetic24 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Rebirth RB-338 (propellerhead) is actualy from 1997

  • @isham16
    @isham16 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice video 😉 is there round Robin on the software (emulations of analog sound) ?

  • @dannydr
    @dannydr 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    2:54 Hahahahha, Claudio's head :D

  • @piotrpawel1492
    @piotrpawel1492 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Jak dla mnie Hip Hop bejs dzram wymiata. - Ciekawe, czy Dr. Mix rozszyfruje mój komentarz. Pozdrawiam. :)

  • @braydensandstedt
    @braydensandstedt 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    dr mix! the best!

  • @LeoBejarano
    @LeoBejarano 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Great video!!!

  • @montazownianr1
    @montazownianr1 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    And I just bought ROLAND VA76 ;)

  • @brianptguitarkeyboardcover9957
    @brianptguitarkeyboardcover9957 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome video

  • @manuelsirotti3793
    @manuelsirotti3793 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you save your pattern on the tr-06 ?

  • @guylecocq5954
    @guylecocq5954 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Do you have the TR626?

  • @markdjdeenix6846
    @markdjdeenix6846 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is the audio being captured by a mic or that amazing mixer
    It’s hard to tell in your studio 😁

  • @Dutch_100db
    @Dutch_100db 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    where is the behringer's one? :)

  • @mathematicwaveformrecordings
    @mathematicwaveformrecordings 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I have a orginal 606, as you know, it's a classic .
    But, I didn't realize how much flexibility the tr06 has.
    I don't care in the least that it's not analog.

  • @streglof
    @streglof 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    what about the Beheringer RD-6?

  • @MSHRadio-dj5zn
    @MSHRadio-dj5zn 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The original 606 is still sounding better to my ears.

  • @dietmarschlichtherle7061
    @dietmarschlichtherle7061 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice toy ;-) I still love my R8 from Roland ;-)

  • @Ejrupolsen
    @Ejrupolsen 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    What a cool video about the Tr606. but would love to se you play with the Yamaha RX7 Drum machine and its sequencer. 👍❤️❤️ I used own one many years ago and played a lot with it.

  • @soliv27
    @soliv27 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I temember just having a modem in late 90's, talking with a pal about making electronic music, he gave me two names 1) Cubase 2)Rebirth . There was a freeware by rebirth with a TR606, 2 synths lines, 1 bass, you just could not record. I loved playing on it but did not dare going further, Cubase, record etc... I regret now, I would be DaftPunk rival :-))
    By the way would you like to do something around TheChemicalBrothers ? I thought about it when you demonstrate Peel (Amazing that feeling when you wonder Paul, John ? Yes Paul... like beeing in Abbey Road playing the original tracks !! Crazy. ) Paul McCartney did an album you surely know under the name Fireman 'Strawberry ocean.. (something)' with real Beatles pieces inside, I think he could do even better with Peel. Did you listen to Rushes / Fireman ? Crazy magic carpet like :-) By the way slow songs of Chemical Brothers are really good. Towards the end of both greater albums. 'Chemical' but no need of it to appreciate, this is for everyone

  • @ZETONEproductions
    @ZETONEproductions 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Anyone know if there are substeps flams on it ? Parmeter locks ? Peace

  • @ashitanojoe69
    @ashitanojoe69 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I had one in 1983 in Japan. It costed me about 100$ in 2nd had market. And in 1997 I sold it for 600$. Also I had the 303 that costed me 150$ in 1983 in 2nd hand market and I sold it for 900$ in 1997. In the middle of 80s, these analog sound wasn't what the people liked because the sound tendency was chaged to digital and much later in the early 90s, the begging of the techno, acid sound, the analog sound came back and cotinue to now.

  • @WouterB76
    @WouterB76 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    A plug in from the Roland Claud(io)

  • @dex2981
    @dex2981 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    hey doc, i just recently bought your "around the world pack". using it for a whole remake of alive 1997 :)

  • @DynamicRockers
    @DynamicRockers 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Doctor Mix, PhD in Drum Machines

  • @RCPlanesAndTravels
    @RCPlanesAndTravels 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Cool things!

  • @Tiki_Media
    @Tiki_Media 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I kept wishing you would hit the “About” button on the TR-606 Computer Controlled version. None of the older versions had an “About” button :-)

  • @CiroJoel
    @CiroJoel 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    9:07 Juegos de seduccion - Soda Stereo

  • @nitbot
    @nitbot 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'ts like a groovebox tr-606

  • @Porkcylinder
    @Porkcylinder 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice

  • @jeanbonnefoy1377
    @jeanbonnefoy1377 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    1:45 and you're missing the 707 and even more importantly (at least for you and your style of music...) the 727, of course!🤗🤭

  • @DavidMadeira29
    @DavidMadeira29 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    "Mickey Dread at the controls, original record, you'd only need a Predator mask from Studio Hollywood and plug your voice to the vocoder for the complete gig..." 🗨😉⛩🔖🥁🎚👹🎙🎹🌌

  • @silentsoulsscarletcarsonblack
    @silentsoulsscarletcarsonblack 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Roland please send me a TR too :D

  • @rosalindannwebb685
    @rosalindannwebb685 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Amazing .🎹🎼x

  • @wallmenis
    @wallmenis 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Since you brought up the boutiques... how big of a shame it was that they stopped producing the D-05... I really wanted one as a first synth so that I would have a new D-50 with warranty and everything instead of an og D-50 and also won't need an interface for it for usb audio. VST isn't as charming as the hardware.

  • @maxmartins289
    @maxmartins289 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Good afternoon my friend, how are you? I'm a big fan of you and your projects and videos. I live in the city of Franca
    SP Brazil. I love electronic music. I really like the band Depeche Mode, you know? kkkkkk
    Can you reproduce the great success of this iconic band from the sinthpop "Enjoy the Silence" ???. Thank you so much beast !!!! Congratulations on the Doctor Mix channel !!!

    • @maxmartins289
      @maxmartins289 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      you didn't like my comment😰

  • @adamgalambos8137
    @adamgalambos8137 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I instantly hear Danger Zone

  • @chloedevereaux1801
    @chloedevereaux1801 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    06 is basically an FPGA then :D

  • @meneerjansen00
    @meneerjansen00 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Conveniently the Behringer RD-6 is left out... ?

    • @synthetic24
      @synthetic24 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Behringer has nothing to do with the Roland TR series. It is just a cheap ripp off and sound like crap.

    • @meneerjansen00
      @meneerjansen00 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@synthetic24 Ha ha. What about Roland's own TB-3: too expensive, incomprehensible *and* sounding like sh**. Everybody F-ed this series up at one time or another didn't they? ;-)

    • @synthetic24
      @synthetic24 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@meneerjansen00 I think you are a very poor man . TB-3 is'nt that expensive and sounds good plus there is a lot of extra usefull sounds. Now I understand why you choose for the immitation.

    • @meneerjansen00
      @meneerjansen00 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@synthetic24 Ha ha. You're right: I'm poor. That's why I'd buy the Behringer 303 and/or 606 versions. They indeed sound a bit less than the original or more expensive clones. But for some "in-home Covid-19 crisis fun" I think they're excellent. If you want to produce an Acid House track that will fall into good ears w/ the generation of the past that is used to the original and recognize every tiny flaw immediately, then you should listen to a clone in a music store before buying. That goes for buying a classic original 606 or 303 too: some are in good shape, some aren't. Oh, and the originals don't feature MIDI which is very unhandy nowadays. ;-)

  • @Borderlands808
    @Borderlands808 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Remake "Jade - Don't Walk Away".

  • @sonyericssoner
    @sonyericssoner 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hi Claudio, i would like to ask you if you ever met or spoken to Luigino Celestino di Agostino? :-P Thanks

    • @Doctormix
      @Doctormix  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I don’t think I know the name...

    • @sonyericssoner
      @sonyericssoner 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Doctormix Famous DJ from italy Gigi d´ Agostino :P

  • @matthewleal651
    @matthewleal651 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Please Make a deconstruction of the song Baba o Riley by The Who .

    • @bertvdlast
      @bertvdlast 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Do you want to see him get bankrupt?

  • @asonx8624
    @asonx8624 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    im in need of a 727

  • @watercolourmark
    @watercolourmark 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Was I the only one looking at that massive elephant in that room?

  • @bassdrivers3881
    @bassdrivers3881 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Зашел поставить лайк. Доктор микс спасибо за видео с Nexus 3 i love you, my friend!

    • @Doctormix
      @Doctormix  3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Love you back!

  • @boaconstrictor3754
    @boaconstrictor3754 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I prefer 808

  • @danielortizdecaracas
    @danielortizdecaracas 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Claudio 606

  • @sullycliftona
    @sullycliftona 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Tempo. On one of the drums. On volume control if u midi it. Not my Knowledge but it’s tru. ( I prefer my tr6 s. Tho. For using,,,

  • @ailikejp
    @ailikejp 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    You just need a 707 and a 727 for the complete set

  • @jjrusy7438
    @jjrusy7438 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    so now will you change your name to "DR Synth" ??????