Blizzard Trying to Make Sylvanas a Villain is Stupid and Dumb (Glass of Water)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ต.ค. 2024
- FOR THE BANSHEE QUEEN!
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UPDATE
While the Saurfang quest has been added to include a choice not to betray the Warchief, many other developments have also come in that reinforce that Blizzard is gunning hard for "Saurfang restores Honor, death to the Banshee Queen." From a new trailer-level cinematic (making that two cinematics for Saurfang now) and Blizzard going as far as to retcon story elements that Sylvanas was previously not responsible for (The Wrathgate done by Putress and Varimathras, and the death of Saurfang's son by the Lich King) into being ordered and committed by her (Syvlanas ordered the Wrathgate, Saurfang's son died from the plague instead of Frostmourne).
In the absence of any real sympathy for Saurfang, Blizzard has opted to just rewrite history to make Sylvanas as much of a villain as they possibly can in order to artificially prop up Saurfang.
Saurfang had a lot of problems, and turning him into Starlight Glimmer was not a solution.
Lily Orchard Wait why does she always look like she’s crying even when she’s kicking major ass... Bwonsamdi is probably my #1 Character now though...
She cried when she was killed and her tears were burned onto her skin
I haven't seen someone as obsessed with honor as Saurfang since season 1 prince Zuko
Now that we know that Sylvanas was INTENTIONALLY being sabotaged.. it puts all this further into perspective.
Lily's favorite character is a ruthless badass who's colleagues all see her as too extreme simply because she's not having any of their shit? I am shocked! Shocked I tell you!
Sounds familiar.
I'll admit I don't play WoW but I'm sorry they did this to you :( It sucks when writers sacrifice story for "these are the good guys because I say so and if you disagree you're wrong."
"I have no time for games." - Sylvanas Windrunner
the last shot of you sighing while looking sad broke my heart
I want Blizzard to prove you wrong! You want it too! We all want it! Sylv is such a badass. I do hate Vol'Jin got the ax but whatever, he wasn't around long enough as warchief for me to feel as sorry as I will once they Kill off Sylv. When I think about it she has always acted like someone who would keep the horde in shape and I'm getting tired of our leaders becoming raid bosses and just losing them to death or being literally neutralized.
Maybe this is why the Horde is always tossed the bone on mechanical/game play levels because they are always getting shit on story wise. That only last for so long once balance patches and tweeks roll out to stop the crying. Read the books and see how down played the horde characters are.
Most of the time you are following some alliance creedin or dragon (who is clearly on the alliance side) throughout the story. There are stories about Thrall and one about Vol' but you can't really have them on a full grand epic world saving tale because they need to save all that for the players to do. Both of their books for Cata and MoP are just setups for events to happen later in-game.
There are a lot of books out there that are not set ups for the game that don't have anyone from the horde as a main character to follow, maybe it's different for the comic books but not so much for the non picture types. The horde that are in the books are bad guys and if not that they are sidekick/pet being dragged alone or just neutral in the grand scheme of things.
Horde favoritism my ass, are we supposed to just be shat on in all aspects involving WoW or what?
Its funny that this came out 5 years ago, because it still holds up.
This was a better perspective on Sylvanas than I originally had. I've always loved the honorable part of the Horde and sought characters who embodied it (as a result, I tend to play mostly Orcs and Tauren), but I do have to say the pragmatic view presented here is fairly appealing.
I do wish they'd stop tossing away interesting characters, though. I'm still bitter that Cairne died offscreen.
(SPOILER)
It helps that it looks like the Alliance are trying to genocide another race into the arms of the Horde in Vol'dun pretty soon...
This video perfectly articulates my feeling and distress for my most beloved character, thank you.
You know I was not expecting to agree with what you're saying, having spent so much time around idiots who think Sylvanas can do no wrong and in the same breath chastize Jaina and call her a bad character for doing basically the same shit Sylvanas is doing now.
But I can se where you're coming form, I haven't played wow for a long time but I folllow the story to an extent and honestly well. I guess the next patch will prove it won't it?
Without Sylvanas, there are no stakes left for the faction war, bar ones invented on the fly to force the illusion of vested conflict.
Hard agree with everything said. Down with the whitewashed Horde. Give me a Horde that owns up to doing anything in its power to ensure its own survival. Accentuate that strife with elements that make those measures necessary. That's how you'll get players invested in a narrative driven by conflict. The best conflict setting is one written without definitive 'good guys', but one wherein a player can pursue an engaging storyline under either banner, and thus feel justified in what they do to preserve it -- regardless of moral overtones, or being flat out told who to root for.
I may be biased, being that I've primarily been a Horde player since vanilla, and furthermore one who've mained Forsaken for most of that time, so I'm fully open to being called subjective. Even if I do hold the genuine belief that what I've written above is the healthier direction to take, to preserve the longevity of the game's narrative.
Call me edgy, but it's hard to ignore the streamlining practiced in regards to questions of moral ambiguity in WoW as of late, and the stark drive to paint literally anything that players have access to in a positive light. An example would be the Blood Knights of Silvermoon. Remember how they used to channel the Light as paladins, by forcefully siphoning it from a captive Naaru? That's such an interesting take on the stereotype of what a paladin is, and gave the concept of a Horde paladin a certain thematic gravitas, as something that set them apart from the opposing faction counterpart. Now on the other hand, they're all the same thing.
If my hand as a player in this recent Saurfang ordeal is forced, to contribute in furthering a chain of events that I believe to be not only inherently detrimental to the game at large, but also betray an ideal that my character has been motivated to fight for -- for over a decade, I might add, then my days on WoW are honestly done. There are more mechanically engaging games out there, and I don't think that's the aspect that's keeping most of WoW's players at this point. It's the stakes the game over many years has fostered. Stakes now thrust to the wind for the sake of bland homogenization.
For the Banshee Queen.
Do you want a hug, Lilly? You looked like you needed one at the end there.
I don't even play WOW but I have always liked Sylvanas history. Characters that have been betrayed for something not their fault I have always enjoyed.
Sylvanas was one of my favorite characters, too. When I heard she became Warchief, I was proud of her. The fact Blizzard is ripping her down makes me glad I stopped playing during Warlords of Draenor.
All Hail Sylvanas Windrunner.
That's really disappointing and I'm very glad that you made this. Something always rang hollow for me about the Alliance being justified, and now I remember why. They've always been short sighted, dogmatically rigid, and comfortable in their established rules. When confronted with complex morality, things that challenge them, they have repeatedly thrown the baby out with the bath water and forced faction after faction into the Horde in order to survive.
The Horde is interesting without Green Jesus to run interference, because the Alliance has stopped listening or caring about complexity or nuance again. They're back to the idea that the Horde are just monsters, and Sylvanas has no patience for a group that tacitly allowed and promoted existential threats like the Argent Crusade. You must be "one of the good ones" in order to be treated with respect.
Tauren and Orcs are far enough removed from the existential threats that they have the luxury of appealing to honor. The Forsaken are still at existential risk from the Worgen. The Blood Elves are still widely seen as aberrations and leeches. The Goblins are constantly berated for their designs being "inherently" worse than Gnomish counterparts.
I actually view Genn as the biggest bastard in setting. Walling off Gilneas when the Alliance needed all of their might in order to combat the Scourge? Refusing a call to arms that was literally the end of the world if they lost? They would have been exterminated despite their wall if the Alliance didn't save their ass in the first place! His personal grudge is a constant threat to peace, but more than that it's a danger to every single Forsaken. He acts alone and threatens peace and why does he get forgiven where the Horde races aren't?
He's human.
Speaking as a complete outsider to WOW...I hope you turn out to be wrong and it's a bait and switch. That Saurfang get's turned into a raidboss. That Blizzard goes 'Psyke! You thought we where killing Sylvanas but instead you finally get to kill the traitor instead!' but as much as I hope that, I'm also a realist. Blizzard wants to fuck over the Horde (Again judging by what's being said in the other comments) and Sylvanas get's the 'Honour' of getting served up on the chopping block....Infact you know what would be even better, turning one of the Genocidal Alliance douches into a Raidboss. But Blizzard is apparently too busy sucking them off to actually think about what their writing and realize that the Alliance are worse (Or at best just as to blame for things) as the horde are.
GUYS! It seems it's datamined that Blizz is adding a choice for the players, it seems they can take wither side or maybe even stay neutral if they choose so.
Y'know, you've single-handedly made me rethink my feelings towards the faction war. I'd always felt it was the least interesting part of Warcraft's story, but in hindsight I'm just not as observant as I thought I was. I, too, hope you're wrong about the direction it's going, 'cause if Sylvanas gets Garrosh'd and the role of Warchief further becomes a goddamn game of musical chairs I might actually have to find another special interest.
... Unless Wrathion comes back and is relevant again.
...... I am never going to escape this hell prison I've made for myself, am I.
Did i like Sylvanas? No. Did I want her to be the new Garrosh? OH HAAAAIIIIILL THE FUCK NAW! I agree with lily on nearly all points save for liking The Banshee Queen, in fact my favorite leader is Lor'Themar. But seriously, the writing has been written from a "lets make a cool raid boss and work backwards" for a long time. I dont thing that blizard is gonna fix this issue. Honestly they should have the ending to that quest be for you to side ine way or the other, have a horde civil war where by the end both sides' problems are adressed and laid bare making the horde stronger as the fix their weaknesses.
a lot of honor is false by my persepective, just a standard which lacks critical thinking from it's followers, only to enslave a person to one's ideals, a delusion and social standard
That really sucks Lily. I've never really played WoW but it's so clear how much you care about the game and care about Sylvanas. To see this taken from you after enjoying the character and the story for so long is heartbreaking. I hope the story goes in the direction of addressing the issues between the factions. That sounds like an absolutely amazing storyline and incredibly interesting, more so than a story about honor above practicality. As always I love seeing your videos and hearing you talk about WoW!
I only have one question for blizzard.
Is it to much to ask that Saurfang grows a spine and challenges Sylvanas to a mak'gora?
And because Sylvanas fights dirty she will win. Denying Saurfang his "honorable" death and then she can raise his corpse and in the process denying Saurfang to see son. only to use his re-animated body as cannon fodder for when we sack Stormwind.
But seriously when this update drop's i'll do the quest line and stop when i see saurfang, spit on him 500+ times and send a bug report to blizz directly about how this quest is buged and it is forcing me to do side with a week, cowardly hypocrite. And if i can spam this bug report i will. I will never finish the quest.
This was honestly a great video Lily, I was watching this when my friend (who don't play wow at all) was walking into the room and she actually sat down and watched with me. When the video was over i could see a tear in her eye and we talked about the subject of the faction war after.
You honestly keep making these video's and i swear thay just keeps getting better and better.
Yeah... Sylvanas had shat the bed sadly due to really, REALLY bad writers.
It's like they just roll a dice, or throw a dart on a board to decide her personality and goals each expansion.
Like, she has LITERALLY betrayed one of her core pillar-stone beliefs... EACH time. She's made to change her opinions more than a republican near election. Hoping people won't remember their prior stance.
Wow... Just... Wow...
I actually dropped WoW a while, trying to get back up and then dropped it again, all without thinking about the lore of it all. Seeing a Horde player drop out over the writing of the franchise made me rethink some things.
i'm not a big fan of the Warcraft Lore, but your video was very well made, it's sad to see so much good potential for a history throw away by Ego Honor.
I've never really played World of Warcraft but even I'd be sad and angry that such a complex character ruthlessly dedicated to survival is reduced to the short end of a bias binary system.. Long Live the Queen.
I'm glad to find someone else who finds Saurfangs sense of "honor" as warped and hypocritical as I do.
Jesus, well done. I was not expecting to have the reaction I did at the end. I have never played Warcraft and don’t care to, but after hearing such a clear detailed explanation as to why you love the character, your sigh at the end of the video made me start crying. I really felt that sort of empty sorrow for this loss, the frustration that Blizzard is throwing away such a rich history and important story they had the opportunity to tell with Sylvanas (instead of narratively stabbing her in the back by what I perceive to be coldly trying to moralize/code/reduce her in this very simplistic good evil paradigm that makes her pain and perspective very easy to dismiss). It just hit me in such a wave I wasn’t anticipating (though probably should have given your videos).
What makes your betrayal of Sylvanas for Saurfang more egregious is you know something is off about him being free. Si:7 is involved and he expressed no intentions of escaping when you met him. So it’s clear he is not just a traitor but a puppet of the Alliance. This is hinted at when he’s captured that Anduin has been planning this.
They had so many ways to do a civil war storyline if that’s what they wanted. Divide the horde player base and have them have warfronts against each other not this a sudden shift in loyalty with zero build up. Because that only works if your character is a child who takes being lied to as the ultimate defense because no shit she isn’t going to directly order his assassination he still is a hero to most of the horde rather than the traitor he clearly has become. Saurfang is an idiot who thinks the Alliance will stop once he “restores honor” or he knows full well because they told him they would.
I liked idea of ruthless warchief. Sylvana becoming the person who will finish everything once and for all. Bloody war with clashing armys. Undead orcs rising from the battlefield and charging forward once again. The grand final battle. But again blizzard wants everyone to be friends with each other. And what happened to the racist people like Garithos? Its like they dont even exist anymore. Ofcourse there is Jaina, but she has personal grudge against the horde.
She deserves better. So much better.
Damn, this is sad. If this does happen, we will miss the banshee queen.
Damn and I was hoping they would embrace a SWTOR style empire vs republic model.
Though if the Lich King is involved and they bring back Arthas I might just not give a shit.
Also I don't think Saurfang was going to defect, I thought he was attempting a suicide sort of thing.
I'm right there with you on this one. I only started looking into Warcraft recently because of your videos, and I took a strong liking to Sylvanas as I found out more about her. She's an incredibly interesting character and she's a badass! Fuck Saurfang, the only thing more pathetic than a Garrosh character is a coward like him. I squealed when Vol'jin made Sylvanas War Chief, because we had a chance for a badass female character to do some awesome things. For Blizzard to just throw that all away in favor of a needless plot complication is really sad. : (
christie golden's writing of sylvanas is gag-worthy... terrible terrible characterization
I've never seen a character so schizophrenic. She has no actual interest or desire for power but still swaggers around like a tinstar dictator. She claims to love the Horde but spends the entire book talking shit about every single race. She professes a deep wish to help and heal her people but spends the entire book psychologically and emotionally torturing them. She's framed like a strategic and political genius but still can't resist insulting Anduin to his face for no reason at all.
It's *horrible*. It doesn't help that the book was desperately screaming for an editor to shout "Holy shit Golding, you wrote an entire book of cafe scenes. You can't have a story entirely about people shouting exposition at one another, it's unreadable!"
And never got it.
HEY YOU FUCKING GET IT! THANK YOU! sorry for the caps, this was a great video.
F to pay respects to Sylvans
You make some good fucking content. I’ll continue to support :)
you sweet summer child. you didnt even get to the shadowlands. where they destroyed so much of everything.
This video was made before shadowlands launched. I am fully aware of how they furthered the destruction of Sylvanas' character
OMG thank you!
This "Honor," BS needed to called out!
Preach o' Queen Lily PREACH!!
Seriously fuck the Alliance! Their actions are a good reason why I prefer to be neutral; that and I love Sylvanas as a character. I'd love to see how the supposed "light" side known as the Alliance fairs against Godzilla. I bet Sylvanas would enjoy the show. Great video Lily! I especially like the bit from Caddyshack at the start.
What is the inspiration behind the mascot & name for your channel?
The mascot is me and the name is my name
I'd like to be the one to tell you that you'll get to help sylvanas raise new dark rangers in the new warfronts in darkshore so Imma just slip that there as something you should probably know on this.
I don't necessarily agree on this even though I too love sylvanas as a character. the burning of teldrassil was bad because it was a fucking world tree, if the night elves had a generic castle I wouldn't be so upset but it's not, it's a connection to the emerald dream and that' a big deal because it hurts both sides. I can agree that it's a little annoying how she flip flops but at the same time I don't think she's going to be another garrosh, not by a long shot. but that's just my opinion
Teldrassil wasn't a World Tree.