I loved the remark by Kolby that he can't stand Tapir Dan. Neither can I. It was his ilk that led me right down the rabbit hole after discovering FAIRMORMON several years ago. The crap those apologists came up with for answers to the issues was disgusting enough, but the fact that Peterson and those like him insult people that care about actual truth takes the issues to a whole new level.
This is amazing! I have felt for months now that when I look at the words' earliest etymologies, the BoM makes a coherent, clear message. But I had no idea that it follows grammar patterns of early English as well. So enlightening. Thanks guys!
@@lilatueller I totally get the need to laugh at others for their beliefs when we have been hurt so deeply by a lying, thieving church. The scars in the ex-lds community are deep and painful.
Well, ghosts who have passed...over...to the other side would possibly be a bit obsessed with the passing over process, especially if they find themselves stuck on a translation committee, exhausting their ectoplasmic energy transfer reserves on the task of re-passing over to the physical realm the words that needed to appear in Joe's magic rock. The "it" in "it came to pass" was the bundle of words being passed through the inter-realm transfer protocol to the rock. A lot more difficult than might be expected, which is why Gawd the Fawthuh and Juheezus didn't want to do it themselves.
Seems to me that in their effort to produce faith-promoting scholarship to explain away some inconveniently faith-demoting aspects of the Book of Mormon text, these apologists may have accidentally contributed to a better understanding of the origins of hillbilly English. Perhaps the principals involved in this apologetic effort deserve honorary accidental doctoral degrees.
IMHO, figuring out the particulars of the Ghost Committee operations was a task better suited to the gifts and skill-set of Carnac the Magnificent, rather than Carmack the Stanford.
I took a class on textual analysis of the Book of Mormon from Royal Skousen in 2005, and he absolutely speculated that William Tyndale headed the ghost translation committee. Whether or not he ever published that theory, he definitely talked about it. I'm not sure if he really doesn't remember or if he's just denying it because it sounds so silly, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I keep trying to tell you that that is false! There were no ghosts. Joseph translated two ways; one was the urim and thummim and the other by a seer stone. The translation was somewhat unusual because it was from a language (reformed Egyptian), and Joseph was writing the translation he received from the stones. I personally believe that that is how God wanted to be written as directed by the stones, perhaps as a testimony of it's authenticity.
Hehe, Elohim speaks in EmodE, I guess... The visiting spirit of John Dee perhaps? Is it any more ridiculous than words appearing on a stone in the bottom of a hat?
El was the sky father of the Canaanite religion. Elohim was El and the entire Canaanite pantheon. Did you know that Baal son of El and Yahweh son of El were both the exact same deity in the pantheon. It was a tribal difference in names. Basically like the Greek gods and Roman Gods were exactly the same just different names.
The extension of every criticism of The Book of Mormon is to contradict other scriptures. In the myopic critique of assistance from beyond the grave, John's own experiences are ignored or omitted for convenience. Revelation 22:8-9 describes John bowing down to worship the messenger of Christ and is forbidden to do so because it was a man who lived as a prophet in mortality and was his "fellow servant." We see the same thing happen in Revelation 19:10. While Wycliffe was a bit early to be a linguistic match, Tyndale and Erasmus fall squarely into the time of E Mod E. If such assistance was available to Joseph Smith, I see no reason why Wycliffe could not have advised as part of a committee along with Jerome and others who dedicated their lives to preserving scripture.
@@AndrewCoburn-s5i: Is that the best you've got? My reference to the prophet who was speaking to John in Revelation 22:8-9 completely misses any accusation or inference you attempted to make. Did you even read my response before responding? Talk about being too eager to say what's on your biased mind... While we are pointing out errors (valid or not): You did not end your response with punctuation.
@zionking2634 The observations of Carmack and Skousen (that some constructions in The Book of Mormon come from a version of Early Modern English that is outside of the KJV or that pre-dates the KJV) should not be dismissed. Their ghost-committee rationalization for their observations should be dismissed, but their observations themselves should not. We should look for more natural explanations. We know that Solomon Spalding studied the relevant time period extensively. There are even examples of such Early Modern English (EME) in the writings of Solomon Spalding, including the Fabius story and The Romance of Celes. There is no evidence that Joseph Smith had familiarity with these EME constructions or used them himself (before or after 1830). I share Kolby's disdain for the arguments (and personality) of Dan Peterson. However, Kolby and RFM make the error of dismissing EME observations as coincidental just because they can't make sense of them under the Smith sole-authorship theory. These observations should be treated as small evidence that, to some degree, discriminates between authorship theories that involve Spalding and those that do not.
This is pretty fascinating. I have no doubt that angels helped Joseph in the translation. It makes a lot of sense that the descendants of Ephraim would all be helping with the translation of the stick of Ephraim on both sides of the veil.
LoL 🤣 I appreciate you trying to protect your "faith" but unfortunately it makes more sense that Joseph Smith adopted other people's ideas and built a story around it. I give you props for trying to still believe. I did my best right up until COVID-19 and I realized that most people are crazy
Ghosts?!? How ignorant! Are you still behind your enemy lines? Laguage expertd say that the books in the Book of Mormon were written by different aithors, but they werent ghosts!
@@GeorgeDemetz You definitely didn't listen. It's a ghost committee. That's the only thing that explains the 16th century texts. So apologetics says people who lived during that time gave direct translations to Joseph.
![The Top Mormon Stories of 2024 [Mormonism Live 212]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/O4Xbh2O4GeU/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Top Mormon Stories of 2024 [Mormonism Live 212]](/img/tr.png)
I loved the remark by Kolby that he can't stand Tapir Dan. Neither can I. It was his ilk that led me right down the rabbit hole after discovering FAIRMORMON several years ago. The crap those apologists came up with for answers to the issues was disgusting enough, but the fact that Peterson and those like him insult people that care about actual truth takes the issues to a whole new level.
This is amazing! I have felt for months now that when I look at the words' earliest etymologies, the BoM makes a coherent, clear message. But I had no idea that it follows grammar patterns of early English as well. So enlightening. Thanks guys!
😂 the lengths to which SOME people will go to retain their beliefs is laughable.
@@lilatueller I totally get the need to laugh at others for their beliefs when we have been hurt so deeply by a lying, thieving church. The scars in the ex-lds community are deep and painful.
Fabulous job boys!
8:30 You two are great together. Love watching your episodes!
Thanks for the fun!! Let’s do a Music Man sing-along sometime😂
What kind of committee writes, "It came to pass" over and over. Those ghosts be not worthy bards!!!
Well, ghosts who have passed...over...to the other side would possibly be a bit obsessed with the passing over process, especially if they find themselves stuck on a translation committee, exhausting their ectoplasmic energy transfer reserves on the task of re-passing over to the physical realm the words that needed to appear in Joe's magic rock. The "it" in "it came to pass" was the bundle of words being passed through the inter-realm transfer protocol to the rock. A lot more difficult than might be expected, which is why Gawd the Fawthuh and Juheezus didn't want to do it themselves.
I guess the BoM wouldn't be the first bestseller written by a ghostwriter.
Seems to me that in their effort to produce faith-promoting scholarship to explain away some inconveniently faith-demoting aspects of the Book of Mormon text, these apologists may have accidentally contributed to a better understanding of the origins of hillbilly English. Perhaps the principals involved in this apologetic effort deserve honorary accidental doctoral degrees.
Dr Skousen, H.A.D.D. Yes.
😂 accidental doctoral degrees that is funny
Is that what Joseph said, that a ghost committee took turns communicating with him through the seer stone since God could not do it by Himself?!?
Great reporting as always 😊
IMHO, figuring out the particulars of the Ghost Committee operations was a task better suited to the gifts and skill-set of Carnac the Magnificent, rather than Carmack the Stanford.
I took a class on textual analysis of the Book of Mormon from Royal Skousen in 2005, and he absolutely speculated that William Tyndale headed the ghost translation committee. Whether or not he ever published that theory, he definitely talked about it. I'm not sure if he really doesn't remember or if he's just denying it because it sounds so silly, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Echos of Solomon Spaulding replace those ghosts. Que the Ghost Busters soundtrack 😂
How much was cut off from the beginning?
And here I thought that this "language" was being used because Smith was familiar with that style.
I keep trying to tell you that that is false! There were no ghosts. Joseph translated two ways; one was the urim and thummim and the other by a seer stone. The translation was somewhat unusual because it was from a language (reformed Egyptian), and Joseph was writing the translation he received from the stones. I personally believe that that is how God wanted to be written as directed by the stones, perhaps as a testimony of it's authenticity.
Daniel Wormtongue Peterson
So Joe was the OG "Hick from St Lick" --- now we know the Rest of the Story....
A committee of interdimensional beings" Angels" co authoring the book of Mormon. Beautiful rediculousness.
Great thumbnail
This is so unreal. Lol there is no way this is a thing. Ha
❤❤❤
Hehe, Elohim speaks in EmodE, I guess...
The visiting spirit of John Dee perhaps?
Is it any more ridiculous than words appearing on a stone in the bottom of a hat?
El was the sky father of the Canaanite religion. Elohim was El and the entire Canaanite pantheon. Did you know that Baal son of El and Yahweh son of El were both the exact same deity in the pantheon. It was a tribal difference in names. Basically like the Greek gods and Roman Gods were exactly the same just different names.
The extension of every criticism of The Book of Mormon is to contradict other scriptures. In the myopic critique of assistance from beyond the grave, John's own experiences are ignored or omitted for convenience. Revelation 22:8-9 describes John bowing down to worship the messenger of Christ and is forbidden to do so because it was a man who lived as a prophet in mortality and was his "fellow servant." We see the same thing happen in Revelation 19:10.
While Wycliffe was a bit early to be a linguistic match, Tyndale and Erasmus fall squarely into the time of E Mod E. If such assistance was available to Joseph Smith, I see no reason why Wycliffe could not have advised as part of a committee along with Jerome and others who dedicated their lives to preserving scripture.
You spelled profit wrong
@@AndrewCoburn-s5i: Is that the best you've got? My reference to the prophet who was speaking to John in Revelation 22:8-9 completely misses any accusation or inference you attempted to make. Did you even read my response before responding? Talk about being too eager to say what's on your biased mind...
While we are pointing out errors (valid or not): You did not end your response with punctuation.
I would be more apt to be interested in it if they did
Old come to pass
@zionking2634 The observations of Carmack and Skousen (that some constructions in The Book of Mormon come from a version of Early Modern English that is outside of the KJV or that pre-dates the KJV) should not be dismissed. Their ghost-committee rationalization for their observations should be dismissed, but their observations themselves should not. We should look for more natural explanations. We know that Solomon Spalding studied the relevant time period extensively. There are even examples of such Early Modern English (EME) in the writings of Solomon Spalding, including the Fabius story and The Romance of Celes. There is no evidence that Joseph Smith had familiarity with these EME constructions or used them himself (before or after 1830). I share Kolby's disdain for the arguments (and personality) of Dan Peterson. However, Kolby and RFM make the error of dismissing EME observations as coincidental just because they can't make sense of them under the Smith sole-authorship theory. These observations should be treated as small evidence that, to some degree, discriminates between authorship theories that involve Spalding and those that do not.
Well, ghosts are actually demons, so…it makes sense.
No ghost don't write that poorly 😂
😂😅
Ain't no goast spel Dat bad yo
What a dork
This is pretty fascinating. I have no doubt that angels helped Joseph in the translation. It makes a lot of sense that the descendants of Ephraim would all be helping with the translation of the stick of Ephraim on both sides of the veil.
*This* makes a lot of sense to you? I’m speechless.
Work is going on both sides of the veil as we speak. I have witnessed them myself.
Are you sure sign of the nail sure?
LoL 🤣 I appreciate you trying to protect your "faith" but unfortunately it makes more sense that Joseph Smith adopted other people's ideas and built a story around it. I give you props for trying to still believe. I did my best right up until COVID-19 and I realized that most people are crazy
@@fightingfortruth9806
😂😂😂🤡🤡🤡
Ghosts?!? How ignorant! Are you still behind your enemy lines? Laguage expertd say that the books in the Book of Mormon were written by different aithors, but they werent ghosts!
Did you listen? The experts say for it to make sense their had to be ghost translating for Joseph.
@jonny6man What about one ghost, the Holy Ghost?!?
@@GeorgeDemetz You definitely didn't listen. It's a ghost committee. That's the only thing that explains the
16th century texts. So apologetics says people who lived during that time gave direct translations to Joseph.
@@jonny6man is that what Joseph said, that a ghost committee used the seer stone to help him since God's power would not be enough?!?
Wow getting a mormon to pay their lost bet is as rough as getting money from a Jew. 🤔 Oh yeah. That checks out.