Steve has and he even upgraded it, unfortunately we can't control this more than that as he already takes time to come on the podcast generously! - Coach Jess
This was excellent! I absolutely love listening to Dr. Mike and I’ve been binge watching all his videos. 🙌🏽 Also the work being done by MASS is phenomenal! Thank you all for this awesome and informative information! 💪🏽💥👌🏽
I love your content guys, thanks for bringing this to us struggling folk. Btw I ordered "strong" and got "fat", but now I know I need to cut and repeat, I was driving on this tiny roads but now I am taking the gainz highway. I thought bulking was hard until I did it. Now I don't like cutting. The process is hard but at least now I know better.
Not sure what a P-Ratio is, but I never pass up the opportunity for a Dr. Mike talk, and I can check out the Derick guy. Let's see what you've got for us today, Mr. WHoole.
Really interesting topic, i thought Mike would advocate for 10-15% for optimal gains, but as always they ended up agreeing. It will be awesome if Eric can publish this data on a journal, i´ve seen many coaches claiming that over 15% BF you shouldn´t bulk due to poor insulin sensitivity.
1:08:00 - If your GH and slin protocol is negatively affecting insulin sensitivity to the point where your p ratio is degraded then your protocol is bad.
Question: I'm sure p-ratio is heavily influenced by genetics. Isn't it likely that when comparing high vs low body fat populations, that the people in the low bodyfat group have a genetic predisposition for higher p-ratio regardless of bodyfat? So that when you compare what happens when fat vs non-fat populations gain weight, what you're actually comparing body composition change in people who are selected for having low vs high p-ratios to begin with? edit: I relalize now that Eric sort of expands on that point, so my comment may be moot.
If its true that a bodyweight held for a year or so sets a reference ''format point'' for the body to that weight, wouldn't P-Ratio not be too fluctuating during bulk-cut cycles which are way shorter.?
If not this might be a proof P-Ratio not been a mere ''observation'' but a cause within a very complex metabolic system tied with insulin sensitivity/resistance ? I wonder if there were case studies on type 1 diabetic athletes with different percentage of insuline satiety incomparison to need? for example one group given 100% of their bodies needed insulin, another group 75% and another group with 50%? with different timelines and weight gains/losses as variations evaluated.
Sorry about me rambling on, but my cogs work a bit slow. :) I guess that P-Ratio is highly related to insulin resistance, sumo wrestler, strongmen altough carrying considerable body fat, usually have healthy or close to that insuline sensitivity, however we know that excess fat at one point can cause insuline resistance, P-Ratio is worsened. Maybe, -Thats why some very skinny ectomorphs are hard gainers although they might have a high insuline sensitivity they do not have the adequate insulin secretion and thus have a hard time building lean mass, which can be remedied up until their work volume is increased which increases instances/amounts of cortisol increasing insulin secretion. -Thats why overly obese people (like I was) could not build muscle and probably have atrophy and could only do start building muscle with weight loss aaaaand muscle build-up for hormonal balance, improving insulin resistance in the process and improving P-Ratio. Ok, I'll hush for now. Thank you for the broadcast, got my cogs turning once again. 👍
I used to mass with 15-25 range, and now already for 2 years been around 10-15 give or take, the theory is relevant not because of magically changing the speed of adaptive scheme of metabolism, but the whole thing of habit formation is the main factor, i believe that if someone stays lean for few years after being fat previously, the process of maintaining leaner phisique will force them to form new habits duo to hunger hormones being in different place whilst being in different body fat ranges
I'm not sure how much of a format point it would be setting nor how long that will be "sustainable" for if that makes sense? We're very adaptable creatures haha! - Coach Jess
@@ReviveStronger Exactly, cut-bulk cycle (single cycle) usually doesn't go on for a year or longer. And if we presumamly accepted that it took 1 year to ''format setting'' and cut-bulk cycle took less than a year, than P-ratio should not be too fluctuating (worsening and/or improving). And this could be a point in the direction of insulin sensitivity and I ask why do we have to name it 'P ratio'' when a spade is a spade? Just saying. Maybe I'm missing something as I'm not the sharpest blade in the drawer, but just thinking aloud.
Is Mike at the end of some contest prep? He seems to be a bit, hmmm.....sleepy? Lethargic? :) Personally, I think , like with literally everything, the best spot is area of body's ballance, then it works best, and we can expect greatest gains. What an millennial discovery- to be to lean and to fat is not optimal state. Best P ratio range to me? Bottom - Possibly lean but not hungry and food focused anymore. Top - when even more food then at the moment is getting to be force feeding and makes you tired, feeling slow, heavy, sleepy after meal. So actually - it's pretty much coverings the same area as set point. Great, interesting topic and podcast. Cheers guys
@@DylanGuynn I dont know, I haven't made up my mind yet, he is a smart guy, maybe with each wink he is making mental notes in his mind to refute or further elaborate and support on matters touched on by other participants in discussions. He's usual analogies is one of the proofs he is of high iq. Ahh who knows! maybe he is a reptellian who likes lifting.! I'm confused. (:p 🖖 )
@@Chaosdude341 true, he likes to call ppl idiots because of having a different opinion, imagine him and Greg doucette in the same debate, shitstorm fest
Not digging Mike's condescending attitude. Should also be said, numerous times, Eric hosts a fabulous podcast called "Stronger by Science" which gets SUPER nerdy about all this stuff.
It's a hit and miss with Mike on the sound haha, but he generously gives his time and knowledge so we can't do much better here sometimes :) Thanks for watching! - Coach Jess
Eric Trexler is highly underrated. He doesn't like doing the social media thing, but he is a stud muffin.
Very smart guy!
Eric is great indeed! Thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
Steve, you should gift Mike a really nice mic. We would all appreciate it
This!
I’d donate
They gave him one at some point
It's so bloody annoying. Why is he sitting with his laptop on his lap without a proper mic?
Steve has and he even upgraded it, unfortunately we can't control this more than that as he already takes time to come on the podcast generously!
- Coach Jess
i could smell this comin after the latest stronger by science podcast. thank you
Same, loving this!
Hope you enjoyed, thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
Thanks for watching :)
- Coach Jess
Planned on hosting this but glad that I dont have to badger them again to come on my podcast again 😅 excited to tune in!
Hope you enjoyed, Abel!
- Coach Jess
I wish trexler went more into the hormonal implications of carrying more fat for muscle anabolism
I could listen to Eric for days!
Thanks for watching :)
- Coach Jess
This was excellent! I absolutely love listening to Dr. Mike and I’ve been binge watching all his videos. 🙌🏽 Also the work being done by MASS is phenomenal! Thank you all for this awesome and informative information! 💪🏽💥👌🏽
What a great comment, thank you so much!
- Coach Jess
I love your content guys, thanks for bringing this to us struggling folk. Btw I ordered "strong" and got "fat", but now I know I need to cut and repeat, I was driving on this tiny roads but now I am taking the gainz highway. I thought bulking was hard until I did it. Now I don't like cutting. The process is hard but at least now I know better.
Thanks a lot and keep it up :)
- Pascal
Always enjoy these w/ Mike, especially when there's a 2nd genius in the house like Dr. Trexler :)
Glad you did, thanks for watching :)
- Coach Jess
Such great points from Eric from around 50:00 !
Glad you think so and thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
Pure gold! These two really go well together like peanut butter and jelly.
Glad you enjoyed, thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
This was a brilliant conversation 👌
I see Mike, I like.
Hope you enjoyed the episode :)
- Coach Jess
Not sure what a P-Ratio is, but I never pass up the opportunity for a Dr. Mike talk, and I can check out the Derick guy. Let's see what you've got for us today, Mr. WHoole.
Additionally, thanks for posting what a P-Ratio is in the description, that desolate no-man's-land I rarely visit haha.
Hope you enjoyed, Eric is great too!
- Coach Jess
Really interesting topic, i thought Mike would advocate for 10-15% for optimal gains, but as always they ended up agreeing. It will be awesome if Eric can publish this data on a journal, i´ve seen many coaches claiming that over 15% BF you shouldn´t bulk due to poor insulin sensitivity.
They'll prob be working on it at some point, thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
just curious if you're still responding. Is there any work on P ratios for people who undergo maintenance and strength training? Thanks!
1:08:00 - If your GH and slin protocol is negatively affecting insulin sensitivity to the point where your p ratio is degraded then your protocol is bad.
Not my area of expertise haha, but thanks for watching :)
- Coach Jess
Question:
I'm sure p-ratio is heavily influenced by genetics. Isn't it likely that when comparing high vs low body fat populations, that the people in the low bodyfat group have a genetic predisposition for higher p-ratio regardless of bodyfat? So that when you compare what happens when fat vs non-fat populations gain weight, what you're actually comparing body composition change in people who are selected for having low vs high p-ratios to begin with?
edit: I relalize now that Eric sort of expands on that point, so my comment may be moot.
I honestly couldn't give you a more detailed answer to this than what's said in the podacst, sorry! Thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
Very good point here. It could be a correlation but not causation
Been waiting for this one!
Hope you enjoyed, thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
If its true that a bodyweight held for a year or so sets a reference ''format point'' for the body to that weight, wouldn't P-Ratio not be too fluctuating during bulk-cut cycles which are way shorter.?
If not this might be a proof P-Ratio not been a mere ''observation'' but a cause within a very complex metabolic system tied with insulin sensitivity/resistance ?
I wonder if there were case studies on type 1 diabetic athletes with different percentage of insuline satiety incomparison to need? for example one group given 100% of their bodies needed insulin, another group 75% and another group with 50%? with different timelines and weight gains/losses as variations evaluated.
Sorry about me rambling on, but my cogs work a bit slow. :)
I guess that P-Ratio is highly related to insulin resistance, sumo wrestler, strongmen altough carrying considerable body fat, usually have healthy or close to that insuline sensitivity, however we know that excess fat at one point can cause insuline resistance, P-Ratio is worsened.
Maybe,
-Thats why some very skinny ectomorphs are hard gainers although they might have a high insuline sensitivity they do not have the adequate insulin secretion and thus have a hard time building lean mass, which can be remedied up until their work volume is increased which increases instances/amounts of cortisol increasing insulin secretion.
-Thats why overly obese people (like I was) could not build muscle and probably have atrophy and could only do start building muscle with weight loss aaaaand muscle build-up for hormonal balance, improving insulin resistance in the process and improving P-Ratio.
Ok, I'll hush for now. Thank you for the broadcast, got my cogs turning once again. 👍
I used to mass with 15-25 range, and now already for 2 years been around 10-15 give or take, the theory is relevant not because of magically changing the speed of adaptive scheme of metabolism, but the whole thing of habit formation is the main factor, i believe that if someone stays lean for few years after being fat previously, the process of maintaining leaner phisique will force them to form new habits duo to hunger hormones being in different place whilst being in different body fat ranges
I'm not sure how much of a format point it would be setting nor how long that will be "sustainable" for if that makes sense? We're very adaptable creatures haha!
- Coach Jess
@@ReviveStronger Exactly, cut-bulk cycle (single cycle) usually doesn't go on for a year or longer.
And if we presumamly accepted that it took 1 year to ''format setting'' and cut-bulk cycle took less than a year, than P-ratio should not be too fluctuating (worsening and/or improving).
And this could be a point in the direction of insulin sensitivity and I ask why do we have to name it 'P ratio'' when a spade is a spade? Just saying.
Maybe I'm missing something as I'm not the sharpest blade in the drawer, but just thinking aloud.
Wow that 45min mark , got me saved
Thanks for watching, Majid!
- Coach Jess
Certain this will be a 10/10
Hope you enjoyed it, thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
Yes how many American football players are not using steroids ? This is the question we need to be consider i think !!
Hahaha please let the natty dream alone :p
- Coach Jess
Great arguments.
Thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
Is Mike at the end of some contest prep? He seems to be a bit, hmmm.....sleepy? Lethargic? :) Personally, I think , like with literally everything, the best spot is area of body's ballance, then it works best, and we can expect greatest gains. What an millennial discovery- to be to lean and to fat is not optimal state. Best P ratio range to me? Bottom - Possibly lean but not hungry and food focused anymore. Top - when even more food then at the moment is getting to be force feeding and makes you tired, feeling slow, heavy, sleepy after meal. So actually - it's pretty much coverings the same area as set point. Great, interesting topic and podcast. Cheers guys
He's been dieting most part of last year I think haha but I didn't find him that lethargic :p Glad you enjoyed and thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
I’ve always wondered why Mike blinks so much lol
to increase his tdee
Are you suggesting he's a reptellian?
@@KenanTurkiye Mike is our reptilian overlord
@@DylanGuynn I dont know, I haven't made up my mind yet, he is a smart guy, maybe with each wink he is making mental notes in his mind to refute or further elaborate and support on matters touched on by other participants in discussions.
He's usual analogies is one of the proofs he is of high iq.
Ahh who knows! maybe he is a reptellian who likes lifting.! I'm confused.
(:p 🖖 )
LMAOOOOOO big same^^ Thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
Wow... You got ERIC HELMS on the show? What a pleasure - I love the SBS Podcast
Hahaha *TREXLER*, thanks for watching :)
- Coach Jess
Eric's and Mike's collective IQ adds up to more than that of 3 average people
Or 30
Most definitely xD It was a great conversation, thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
Yup hahaha
- Coach Jess
I would like to listen Eric Helms pont of view in tha matter
you’re in luck. They just talked about it on the Iron Culture podcast
@@SZD06564 yeah, very luck! i'm watching, thank you.
Their episode came out just after haha :p
- Coach Jess
Lyle would be a nice addition to this discussion, curious what arguments would he bring
If Lyle wouldn't be an overgrown toddler about the issue ye.
@@Chaosdude341 true, he likes to call ppl idiots because of having a different opinion, imagine him and Greg doucette in the same debate, shitstorm fest
I'm bringing popcorn^^
- Coach Jess
I don't think having Lyle on the podcast is on the cards haha!
- Coach Jess
Not digging Mike's condescending attitude. Should also be said, numerous times, Eric hosts a fabulous podcast called "Stronger by Science" which gets SUPER nerdy about all this stuff.
I don't think Mike has a condescending attitude :) And we did mention the SBS podcast :) Thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
Holy shit how was I not subscribed. Think I got unsubbed.
Hahaha, hope you enjoyed the conversation :)
- Coach Jess
Algorithm
Thank you and hope you enjoyed the episode as well :)
- Coach Jess
💪💪❤️❤️‼️
Thanks!
- Coach Jess
Mike you need a new mic. waa u doin bru. Its a requirement.
It's a hit and miss with Mike on the sound haha, but he generously gives his time and knowledge so we can't do much better here sometimes :) Thanks for watching!
- Coach Jess
Trexler likes to hear himself talk
Can't blame him, he's great at it!
- Pascal
Jealous?