**Video Update** The comparison in regards to loss was between LMR cable (solid core) and stranded core cable (Hyperflex 10). Generally all solid conductors have better attenuations, the fact that Hyperflex 10 has equal performance is an incredible achievement considering it is much more flexible. Also - Hyperflex 5 has full copper screening - not copper clad aluminium.
For HF, solid center. For VHF and higher, the preference is stranded due to skin effect. I'm only comparing stranded vs. solid as UHF and above, the real preference would be helix type (hollow center conductor) with DIN (better than N) connectors. The latter is more with LMR and cell and very costly, but for us hams, stranded center conductor with high quality connectors. While Messi & Paoloni are a bit more pricey, they are worth it in quality and will last longer, actually making them more economical. Messi, using a stranded center is about the best you can get for Ham. Their connectors are incredible.
You have the solid and stranded loss backwards. The stranded usually has more loss s the signal is jumping from strand to strand as you go higher in frequency..@@DanKuches
@@HamRadioDX Hi! New ham/new subscriber setting up Astron 35A power supply, IC 7300 and probable EFHW antenna to start. Not planning on a tuner to start. QTH rainy and cool. Are the M&P connectors waterproof like N type connectors? Do they have an alphanumeric descriptor or just called M&P? Do they only attach to each other or are they compatible with any particular other connector? Will check out their site for sure! Thank you! 73, John - KK7JBZ
@@johnbauman4005 Hi John, Congrats and welcome to amateur radio! The M&P compression connectors are designed for protection against water ingress, but I wouldn't say they are waterproof. I'd still recommend sealing them, either with their Silicon Seal or self-amalgamating tape. messi.it/en/catalogue/50-ohm-rf-coaxial-cable/n-male-connectors/10mm/solder.htm messi.it/en/catalogue/accessories/shrink-tube-mep-silicone-seal-l.htm The connectors are labeled per the cable that they fit, the type (N male or female). They are compatible with whatever is the opposite connector (regardless of brand), so an N male will mate with a N female. A PL-259 with a SO-239 etc. 73 and good luck!
Haydon welcome to the "M&P convert club", like you for years i used rg 213, in my case it was cabinex rg213M , my situation is from my shack to my tower i have underground 4 inch pipe going to a external box near my tower and then up my tower to various antennas or in a different direction to my to other antennas,, approx 2 years ago i bit the bullet and after my consideration bought 2 100m rolls of ultraflex 10 and the M&P scissors, i know have 8 lengths @ 10ms underground coming into my shack onto a copper plate, and the same on the exterior box, during the cable install a good friend of mine of 25 years ham experience was helping me do the cable pulls (not easy 3 differnt bends), i could see he was interested, so i sold him 25m @ below cost(due to his help/friend), once mine was hooked up we could see a difference on hf even with standard pl259s, when M&P evolution plugs were first available in the UK my friend bought some immediately and fitted them and noticed on his simple end fed dipole better rx,i went round his on one particular day (i live 2and half miles from him), and he had his radio on 17m ft8 were i had just came from @ my home qth and he was getting 2 S points better on rx, please bear in mind that he lives in a terraced house in a town location so lots of houses close by, where i live less than 10 minutes away outside of town with 4 neighbours nearby,so impressed with difference with the rx was i , i immediately bought the required amount of M&P evolution plugs pricey yes quality 110% for a fit once never replace plug its a no brainer, my rx has also gone up by 2 S points,in fact at the time this video comment 2 days earlier i worked roly ZL1BQD in the wwdigi ft8 contest, a mere 11,210 miles on 40m ,or with the same coax and plugs i worked ZL2CC on 60m with 100w him 15w eirp @ 11,319 miles to gain me a all zones on 60m/9 bands in total, the beauty of this cable is like you said it bends no problem, suitable for rotators etc, and as i understand the figures is good for 9kw key down on 80m cw, not i need that in the UK :), yes its pricey and so are the plugs, but if your dropping 3-6k in a radio/pc /headset etc ,etc why not get a 100m drum or 2 and the correct plugs, here in the UK i have found Radioworld of Birmingham best for customer service for M&P products, good choice Hayden :) :)
Haydon, The M&P cables and connectors are unbeatable! no IF's and no BUT's. I use Hypeflex 5, 7, 10 and 13 here. As well as the direct bury Hyperflex 10. Allow me two quick points. The PL259 connectors have a rounded nose and are soldered internally. Brilliant idea. No more scraping of the excess solder of the actual pin cause it will not slide into the SO239. The scissors are a MUST and for the following reason: If you cut a coax cable with a side cutter... NO MATTER how sharp.. you tend the deform (flatten) the inner conductor somewhat. Using their scissors.... that problem never occurs. I had long run out of naughty words while trying to get the center conductor back into shape.... as it is a perfect fit on the Pin... but only if you have not deformed to center conductor. Once you use these scissors, you will never go back. To all colleague radio hams... drop into their website: it is TRULY A GOLDMINE of info on all matters coax cable and connectors. I refuse to use anything else. Am driving my zachtek 180 milliwatt transmitter on Whisper with 20 meters of Hyperflex 10. The dammed thing is ALL OVER VK LAND AND ZL land ! I'm going to be barred from ever visiting down under. Enough said ? Albert. EI7II.
After years of compression and crimped connector failures, I now only use entirely soldered connectors that I solder myself so I know it's done right. Intermittent RF connections are the bane of RF communications.
Hi VK3YLN here. I can 100+% also endorse professional quality M&P gear. I found them a little over 12 months. I am rapidly ditching all my old coax cable for theirs. They truly are the Roya Royce of coax in quality, buid and Spec's . They outperform other coax for the same diameter. Their connectors are sensational - so do what I'm doing - ditch your ROC made stuff (give them away to the 27 Meggers) Easy to install and long term, they will out perform crimp stuff (personal experioence) especially where coax movement occurs due to wind & on rototors . As HamRadio Dx states whatever your losses at the TRx end of the coax its gone! - no LNA is really going to replace those losses without changing the S/N ratio. Yes cables little more expensive but with better service quality and performance for longer life duration . M&P also provide some Sahara versions for extreme hot conditions
Brilliant cables have a 30metre run of Hyperflex 13 on VHF/UHF, runs easy round the rotator. I use Hyperflex 10 on both HF antennas and Ultraflex 7 for jumpers. Here in the UK the price is not to bad for the quality. The connectors may seem expensive but are very good quality.
This might be news for someone who didn't know about modern foam-dielectric, 100% shield cable. If you are comparing, RG-58 is more like LMR-195. LMR-240 compares with RX-8X. There are a couple of types of LMR-240, including some stranded. I used solid-wire DB for a buried HF run at my old house, almost as good as 213 but way easier to bury. There are quality 8X variants out there with foam and 100% shield that have similar performance to LMR-240 or the Hyperflex 5. I really doubt the significant figures on those tables. You might try measuring something. There is no way anyone amateur is going to notice, or even measure, fractions of a dB. Two things I found out the hard way about foil-wrapped foam-dielectric coax: 1) Never solder connectors other than the center pin (as quickly as possible). The foam will melt. Crimp or maybe clamp is the way to go, with the right tools. 2) Mind the bending radius. Too tight a turn and the center conductor will eventually migrate toward the shield.
M&P make an awesome Coax connector. The shield doesn't require soldering, only the center pin does, atleast with the "N" connectors I purchased. There is a thick neoprene gasket that puts an enormous amount of pressure on the shield when using open end wrenches to tighten down the nut into the connector body. M&P connectors are some seriously heavy duty machined connectors that will withstand the test of time!🤠👍⚡️🎙
I have installed M&P Ultraflex 7 Sahara cables in my mobile for mobile/portable HF. They are hooked to a switch in the cab so I can switch between ham sticks while mobile and 2 different antennas while portable. I really like the compression connectors. Soldering the center conductor took a little patience as I was not at my soldering desk but outside in the elements. But I am very impressed after dealing with LMR400 for VHF/UHF antennas. 73 de KI5HXM!
Thank you for this video! I use the M&P 7 mm cable since 3 years for my /p operations at my camping trips, from 80m to 70cm bands, it works excellent! Ham radio operator for now over 40 years, what a nice cable, after experiences with those RG- and stiff Aircell-Cables ;) vy73 from Hamburg/Germany, Dietmar, DL4HAO
I can't say enough about M&P coax and connectors. I have Hyperflex 10 feeding my 10/11m antenna, the only wish I have is the dielectric, not a fan of foam, would be nice if Teflon was used instead, but M&P coax is slightly better than RG- 213, and M&P's coax connectors are precision machined units, definitely TOP SHELF craftsmanship!🤠👍⚡️🎙
Do you know why it's called "RG"? An interesting story. It is called RG because in WWII when field communications were improved, the term RG referred to radio guide. The way equipment was connected.
Iv used Ultra Flex 7 for the past 5 years on my portable set-ups as it works well on 2m 70cm for SSB competitions. HF, well, with a resonate dipole performs amazingly. After watching this though, I will invest in some Hyperflex 5 for HF portable to get the weight down. Thank you HRDX.
Definitely on my shopping list, along with DX Commander Signature 12.5! I do have 2 related questions: 1. Is there an argument against using “N” connectors for HF. 2. Can you do a video on static/lightning protection. More interested in product recommendations. I suspect there is some rubbish out there.
1. Not really an argument against using N for HF... only that nearly all HF radios will have a SO-239 (or BNC) on them rather than a N type so you'll need an adapter. 2. I'll put it on the list. Lightning isn't really a major issue around here. I don't use any lightning arrestors and (tough wood) I've never lost any gear to a strike.
Hi Terry, I was researching these cables and I thought there was an ‘N’ type available from M&P. I would love to put one one for any needed ‘N’ type. I really like the way these compression connectors go on. I used to say no to UHF/PL-259 connectors for higher frequencies but if the cable performs anything like I hope I don’t think the loss at the UHF connector will be bad. This is my own opinion. Cheers, 73 de KI5HXM!
Hi Terry The N connector is certainly the best solution to go for. Anyway, for the HF we have brought the N connector technology to the M&P-UHF EVO connector. They look very similar and the performances of the UHF EVO are far beyond those of the classic PL 259, to such an extent that could be used up to 4 GHz
I just bought some of their BNC and PL259 connectors. I am looking forward to them arriving. I have not found crimp connections all that reliable so am changing everything to commercial soldered connections I use milspec RG58 C/U as I mostly/only do SOTA. Their cable does look nice but. Cheers Andrew VK2ZRK
In addition to my last. I have made a few feed lines from LMR400UF and I only use genuine Times Microwave Systems connections. I think if you are going to spend that sort of coin on coax why scrimp on the connections. 73 VK2ZRK
I am not sure why I watched this and throughly enjoyed and learned from this. I only have a Citizen's Band transceiver in my Jeep. The cable runs about 2.5 metres. I am thinking of experimenting with 900Mhz public 33 centimeter band segments. I also experiment with the long forgotten 49Mhz with radios that transmit far more power than is legal. The legal limit being 100 milliwatts, the RadioShack® walkie talkie transmits barely under one watt. The 49 Mhz wireless phone is pumping out just over 2 watts. How did these transceiver manufacturers get away with so much more power than the legal limit?
I’ve got this double shielded coax with a solid center core and the outer casing is yellow and I’ve never seen such a quality response from any coax but this stuff this stuff is truly remarkable has anybody heard of it before I’ve got hundreds of feet of it and I won’t give it up for nothing
Bravo! Most aren't aware of, thus can't 'appreciate' the electrical and mechanical challenges of LMR/9913 style cables. #1 - Times recommends proper crimp connectors *only* for LMR, because you can't get a decent mechanical/solder connection with their flimsy inadequate braid, so twist and flex start to comprise the electrical/shielding capability. #2 - dissimilar metal between braid and aluminum foil - this also compromises the electrical/shielding factors. Both of these can eventually result in poor performance/loss of shielding over time. Worse, PIM, passive intermod/mixing at the bad braid/foil points - for that reason most commercial sites prohibit using LMR-anything.
Good video Hayden. Good to see the comparison matrix. I agree about the awesome connectors too. I have not bought any coax yet and probably will get M&P. I don't think I'll transmit over 430MHz so that should be perfect for me. My run would be about 12 to 15m or so. 🍻👍
Just used your code on my first order today from M&P. Hyperflex 7, pl259 connectors, the scissors, cutters, flux and of course the shirt :) cheers from North QLD VK4LKG
good video but, when installing the connector A little more screen braid to connect to the connector body would be better when using high power. I have seen many bad (commercial) installs that only needed re-terminating to solve an issue. Keeps me in a job!
@HamRadioDX - Thanks for this update, when i put up my new antenna's, ill try this coax over the excess RG58 i have laying around. | Price of LMR400 makes it all the more of a incentive to buy Hyperflex 10. Spending a ridiculous amount on LMR, only for the motorized antenna mount to break down the core and shield over a few months from its rigidity. Means a more flexible cable is a no-brainer. LMR does great in straight runs through conduit, but on a motorized mount, your either stuck switching between other coax and balancing the loss from that (and the connectors) or making some type of solution to strain relief your feed line. --- How does Hyperflex handle weather changes? Hot and Cold temperatures, do they affect the cable or induce additional loss? | I cant Speak for Tazzies, but in VK2, we get everything from 49c+ to -5c. | Does this stand up to these weather conditions? Can a station operate for a year or more reliably without cable damage?
"...then I discovered Messi and Paoloni cable." Too bad that they signed-up with 'MFJ' to be the "EXCLUSIVE" distributor. Makes F'n Junk being a company that I've been forced to ban from my life due to their utterly horrific QA (I can literally drag out a half-dozen examples and point to the obvious and inexcusable design and build flaws). Thus, I can't buy anything that MFJ has anything to do with. They're the sort of company that would likely scrunch up the otherwise quite lovely coax into a 1-cm radius for shipping, or find some other way to ruin everyone's day. Maybe I could buy online and avoid MFJ.
RG400 50 ohm with a Velocity of 69.5 low loss Teflon insulation Trippel shelled, good up to 12.4 GHz At 1GHz it can handle 600 watts. Also on the Ham frequencies it can handle 1,000 Watts and more. a little smaller than RG58. Its used in all kinds of aviation equipment private and military. Highly heat resistance, you can put on your connector with out melting the insulation. One caveat it's a little pricey not to bad though. Amazon no name 40ft about 70ish dollars, it goes for a lot more at other places. I love this stuff, great feed line coax cable and jumpers between equip..
Amazon-sold Chinese-made 'KMR400' is cheap, so cheap I even use it for HF. Only 0.8dB loss per 100-ft at 30MHz, I've confirmed. Easy to terminate with latest connectors. Results are great, no disappointments.
I've been curious about KMR400 on Amazon. I'm wondering how the outer jacket holds up to UV over time when installed outdoors? Times Microwave claims their LMR400 is good for 20 years.
@@jeff2424 My tri-band 3-el Yagi has been installed only since last autumn. But most of the KMR400 coaxial cable is either in an underground conduit across the lawn, or mostly under pine needles and twigs to reach the mast. If it works for five years, I'll be perfectly happy. I expect it'll last a lot longer than that. My previous coax was bought used (decades old) and I still worked all over Europe (easy from eastern Canada). Great fun. 73.
I've had some run to a rooftop antenna for about a year now with no noticeable issues. Very happy with it for the price and what I'm trying to accomplish
I like the compression connectors even for plain old RG-6 that we all have seen countless times. They are made to such tolerances that unless you hold the cable straight while removing it, it feels more difficult. Of course a snug fit is good.
@@HamRadioDX A little over a year ago at a hamfest when it was over someone just left to small coil of 214. I am getting into ham after I retire. SS is only income! So I grabbed it up. Not checked it but maybe 15-20 feet. Used but it will make some jumpers for VHF-UHF Radio to power/SWR meter, and other things like that. Or maybe long enough for short run to antenna for Feld day or POTA!
I have no idea why one would use RG-58. RG8x, LMR-240 is a better choice where small cable in required. LMR -400 or Buryflex is ideal for longer runs or high power. I use these cables in my station except for patch cables.
In your installation segment. you skipped past the hard part. Getting the white spacer over the stranded braid is not trivial (nor a breeze). If you are incredibly careful to not touch the center conductor at all, you may be able to get the white insulator over the cable. I end up putting a screwdriver in the hole of the white insulator and widening it just a bit. That usually works.
Because of your video I just ordered 105 ft and 110 feet for Hyper Flex 13 For my new Satellite station I am building. I sure hope you are correct it was not cheap! I was going to use LMR-600 but it does not flex at all and I was worried about all the loss with connectors patching it into some flexible cable at the antenna and in the shack. TO the best of my ability to figure this stiff out I think it almost as good as the LMR600 and flexible so I ordered it. Wish me luck! DE K8OCN
Newbie here. I ended up using Telco Antennas TEL450 1/2" Corrugated Coaxial Cable on my IC9700. My mate and I bought a roll and in the end used it everywhere. It pretty rigid stuff but once you get used to working with it the losses are so low that it really wasn't worth buying the LMR400 or anything else for that matter @ 6.50 /metre. Signal Loss: 0.067dB/m @ 850MHz, 0.11dB/m @ 2100MHz. The connectors are a bit pricey but beautifully made.
That's LDF4-50 or 450 Heliax. Yea when I do a permeant vertical install for VHF/UHF I'll use that stuff too. I think where M&P works well for guys using Heliax is when they're running Yagis on rotators, you can have high quality connectors going to a low loss flex cable for the rotator.
Try Hyperflex 13... it's so flexible that your installation work will go much smoother. Used by the USAF and in Dwingeloo radio telescope, to mention some...
Hello Is ther a tool that can cut the outer plastic and other things of the Rg316 cable, that they are ready in pune cut go to be attached for soldering and crimping without handling a knife and risking to cut in the conductor wire and shielding? 🤔
I am EXTREMELY interested in those connectors. I guess I'm just a major clutz because it's not unusual for me to have cut off a compression/solder type connector for lmg400 to start over. For me it seems that if I don't cit everything to the perfect length etc., it may not work well. I mean, I've done many, and they've been hanging in there for years, but I just hate doing it. I think that compression type terminator may be just what the doctor ordered. I am baffled though about them using MFJ. I will give them a try regardless. Let's hope they just distribute and don't even package. Oh my they wouldn't let MFJ do any manufacturing would they?
I use LMR-400 for everything except for 1.2Ghz SSB where I have a run of LMR-600. All of my coax runs are 40ft because my rigs are in a closet and I remote control them. Not having the rigs on my desk made my runs super short.
so , is it wrong to use lmr400 for the cb in my semi truck? i add about 8 coats of liquid electric tape to the connectors. it has to endure 70mph road speed for 10hrs daily, plus wind speed, salt water at the same speeds, and UV. was thinking i should try lmr600, but that might be overkill. lmr240 on my 11m base station(
LMR240 is comparable to RG8X. They even use the same connectors. RG58 should be compared to LMR195. same for connectors with these two as well. I build my own cable kits for 800/900mHz with LMR240 due to the loss numbers.. I am going to look into this brand based on your video here.. thanks!
Very happy with M&P I have three runs going all the way up the 70 foot crank up tower with 15 ft of mast out the tower top. In the next few weeks planning to have the tower cranked over to pull down a hex beam and and a 10 element 2 meter Yagi replace the hex with a three element Cubex HF 10-20 quad and HOPING to replace the 10 element 2M Yagi with a pair of stacked 2m/440 8 element Quads. Just waiting for the summer to cool off a bit it is still in the high 80's and 90's which for me is a bit too warm to be playing antenna out in the yard for the whole weekend. UHF\VHF Quads are assembled in the driveway. still need a little tuning tweaks but otherwise ready to go. the HF Quad is boxed up in the Garage waiting to be broken open... Anyway. Back to M&P so far I am happy with my 3 runs of Hyperflex 10 and the M&P connectors. The connectors are a little pricey when you have to buy about 20 of them, but not too bad, and they are very high quality connectors. I also ordered my .400 size 75 Ohm stacking harness cable from them, Got all my cable from Italy to Chicago in three days!!!! YES THREE DAYS!!!! fastest overseas shipping I have EVER SEEN! and shipping didn't cost a fortune either.... They have my business from now on if and until I discover a reason they shouldn't.
All positive comments are spontaneous and were made by real users with years of experience on personal use. Strange to say in Europe, despite the many ethnicities, languages, mentalities, prejudices, among the various countries, the M&P product has spread in time of record, also thanks to exceptional word of mouth that goes far beyond the best marketing or advertising. Let's stop insisting on these nationalistic prejudices, especially if the TH-cam profile is completely empty.
Lmr600UF is where it's at. Very expensive but virtually zero loss. Stranded core instead of solid. Wouldn't advise anyone to use it unless you had a long run to your antenna.
LMR 600 UF is a great cable, but may I suggest keeping in consideration Hyperflex 13 which is smaller (.500), lighter, and more flexible thanks to the 37 copper wires as opposed to the 7 wires of LMR 600 UF, and has got approx the same attenuation. I forgot....even cheaper.
Ive never actually tried these, but I've also never tried the crimp connectors either.... I've always used the soldered connectors, which I think as far as being "Robust" probably are better than the crimped type and at least come close to the type you're showing provided you use good ones like the silver and teflon type
I Inhereted A Ship Container FUll Of Radio And Electronic STuff, There Where Cables, So Much Cables That I Sold Many of Them To Scrap As Copper Cabbles, Then I Looked At TThem In DetailA nd Turned Out TThat I Had There Many Many Russian Military Grade Coaxial Cables, Now Im So Happy That I Have Them, Inside Its All Silver Coated Pure Copper, Will Use Them In My radio Tower Build Because I Have Hundreds Of Meters If Not Kilometers In There, I Cant Pick Up The WHole Strip Of The WIre And Lets Not TTalk About The Other Wires, All Milittary Grade Data Cables That Im Thinking Of Using In Other Projects, Some Of Them I Cutted Up In peces For Smaller Use Like In My Filters And Sttuff Because The Pure Copper Is Much Better To Solder On Then Whats Out Now, Coper Thats Mixed With So Much Aluminium And Zinc That The SOlder Doesnt Want To Stick TTo It (If You Solder A Lot You Know What Im Talking ABout) Copper Wire That Doesnt Want To Adhere Solder No matter What Heat Or What AcidOr What paste You Are Using, With These Militaryu Grade Copper Silver Wires I Can Use JUSTT LEAD To Solder Anything, But ALWAYS Make Sure That There Is Connection Between Copper To Copper, Twist Copper With Copper AND ONLY THEN SOLDER, Dont Silder Where There Is Gapps Where There Is No Copper AndOnly Solder, That Will be BBIG Mistake In Radio Wires / Antenna Wires, That Point Will Act As resistor In Some Cases. Make Sure You Twist Copper Wires Together ANd THEN Solder .. I Learned Thatt HARD WAY !
How long do you think that connector's long black rubber grommet between the clamp nut and the ferrule that captures the braided shield can maintain sufficient compression? Plastics flow, especially when warm. For the Amphenol (and others) there is a thin gasket between the nut and the clamp that often gets cut during assembly, so full metal to maintain compression. The cable looks good, but I don't like the connectors.
hat about shielding and noise reduction? M&P's website says their cables have a denser outer braid than other coax and also the copper-foil inner shielding, is N&P coax any quieter on receive than RG-213 or LMR?
Not even the numbers for losses are great on Hyperflex. The shielding is also about 10dB better than most competitors. To me, this was the Main reason to switch because I livie in a rather noisy environment.
The question begs, do these M&P coax's duplex well ? As most have learned that cables similar and to include LMR 400 as example, do not duplex well ! But I was disappointed looking at the M&P loss @ UHF ! And really very similar to Times Microwave cables, as well as others ! How ever their connectors are interesting !
Did you ever find an answer to this? My understanding is that LMR400/9913F don't duplex well due to the aluminum foil which, when it corrodes, forms a diode against the tinned braid. With M&P coax there's no aluminum, just copper foil and copper braid. This *seems* like it should duplex well, but I'd love to know what others have found.
@@k9yk No I have not ! It is my understanding that cables like LMR 400, because of their use of dissimilar metals, after sometime, they begin to become noisy when passing RF thru them, once they get some age on them, likely for the reasons you mentioned ! Since the feed line you mention uses copper for both, I would think the chances for any rectification would be eliminated ? In that regard, they sound promising, but in my opinion, still lack anything Earth shaking as to the losses at Higher Frequencies ! Sad as it is, it's just the nature of the beast ! And depending on how High you go in frequency, if you're not using something the size of a fire hose, losses are still going to be high ! I found this especially true when I ventured into GMRS ! Where it really got my attention ! Where if I remember correctly, a cable like LMR 400 had a loss of 3 db ! Essentially cutting your power in half @ 100 feet !
Awesome video Hayden, Were you ever unfortunate enough to ever buy the "Tricky Dicky" coax? It was horrible stuff and had a loss factor comparable to a sieve. I once bought some "RG-213" and it came in a box to my house, the idiot that packed it in the box kinked the cable on both sides by wrapping a large cable tie around the middle of the bundle. Back it went......
Just getting into Ham and trying to learn more about cables and I'm a noob here. So you mentioned LD4-50A you had used before going to M&P. But when I look at the attenuation for each at say 400Mhz, the LD4 is 1/4 the attenuation of the hyperflex 5. So other than flexibility, why would I want to use the hyperflex over LD4?
I recently purchased M&P Extraflex Bury 10mm for a 330 ' feedline for HF. I'm wondering if you think this is acceptable or should I have got the 13mm instead? Great video BTW ...Thanks!
330' is 100m. At 28 MHz that's 2.1dB of attenuation - about 30% of your power/received signal lost with the Extraflex Bury 10mm. The Extraflex over the same run and frequency is 1.6dB, so just over 25%, so not a whole lot of difference - and that's worse case on the highest HF band. At bands like 40m the difference is very little (only 0.3dB difference)
How long is the discount code valid for? I've been checking them out. I wish I hadn't gone and bought 2, 17 meter coils of RG-213 now...... I do need something light and low loss for portable operations though so I think I'll get that at least.
We confirm no expiry! Light and very very low loss, are Airborne 5 and Airborne 10, the utmost for Dxing teams such as in the forthcoming DXpedition at Bouvet island. A bit stiff though but buriable and sturdy and very light. Extraflex bury 7 is a great choice adding more flexibility and sitting in between the two sizewise.
Since we're on the topic of coax, in your last video, the one about the 905, you mentioned the antenna setup using hard line for 2.4ghz. What is the benefit of using hardline over coax? I would greatly appreciate it if you explained when it is best to use coax, hardline and heliax.
Hardline is still coax, it's just a "hard" form.. i.e. usually solid or rigid copper outer (sometimes with no jacket) and lower loss than conventional coax. A good summary is available here - audiosystemsgroup.com/HardLine.pdf
Hayden, Are those scissors comfortable and effective? They look small, like children's scissors. Seems like they'd be better with larger finger grips and longer lever arm. Will buy on your say so... Thanks! 73, John - KK7JBZ
I wouldn't put LMR400 (with a solid core) around any rotator because the constant movement/flex may cause the centre conductor to fracture or break.. Use that cable on your fixed runs and then a short patch lead of Ultra or Hyperflex around the rotator will work well!
Wait, RG58 for UHF? Why? I thought because of the skin effect that the higher the frequency the more electricity flows on the outside of a wire and not through it, which means higher impedance at higher frequencies if you don't increase the size of the conductor. So why such a small cable for UHF and a larger cable for HF? Maybe I'm just dumb. Also, I thought stranded wire always had lower impedance at higher frequencies when compared to solid conductors because of the increased surface area (again, because of the skin effect). Maybe it's not the impedance that increases but something else, but either way, I think the rest is correct.
"Made in Italy with Passion"!. That's what I like to see. Italy's showing us all it CAN be done. Time we started making stuff in the west again. M&P just scream quality! Will it cost more? Yes of course, but I for one am tired of the inferior quality you get from... well, places where quality doesn't see to be top priority.
nice advert. mate. how does the cable and the connectors fair in a marine environment? looks like there is no benefit over the lmr! missed the price per 10m comparison would have been a bonus. 73
I'll stick with mil spec cable it dose cost more but it is a better cable than wat is out there because the outer coating is teflon and the dielectric center is not foam core but it is teflon it is still flexible and can handle higher power and heat with out melting or braking down . mil speck stands for military specifications
@@MessiPaoloniSRLAncona done and now a reseller for Australia thanks the process has been so easy and much better the even some of our local suppliers thanks ..look forward to reselling your product
One of my biggest complaints is. A lot of coaxial cables are not copper. But copper coated steel wires that rust. Thus becoming unreliable. Test them yourselves with a magnet. Even resistor wires are steel these days. Cheers from old George in the UK.
Cheap Chinese cables are copper coated aluminium. I used that to my advantage for portable operation, I bought the cheapest RG-58 from China I could find. It really is quite light and performs about as well as you'd expect from RG-58!
There is no trace of copper-clad steel in our 50 Ohm cables. All our cables have pure copper cores, save Airborne 10, which has copper-clad Aluminum core exactly like the classic LMR 400 to which it is inspired. We have made anyway some changes: we use copper foil and a copper-clad aluminum braid instead of the Aluminum foil and tinned copper braid. No rust! let us leave that stuff to the Chinese.
@@MessiPaoloniSRLAncona Thanks for your reply. I will do a video soon showing my findings. Showing power cables ad well as coax. Cheers from old George happy DX
We have an outstanding cable named Hyperflex 13, with an Overall diameter .500" (instead of .600"), with comparable attenuations to LMR 600 UF (UF stays for Ultra Flex, the version with 7 wires stranded core). Our model instead has a unique 37 strands copper core for unparalleled flexibility, performance, reduced bulk, and reduced weight). We do not make a version with single copper-clad aluminum, though, because it is too stiff. Of course, LMR 600, having a single core, has a lower loss, while the LMR 600 UF version is on par with ours for attenuations ....with a greater size.
Hi Hayden -Thanks for the video. Buy this cable-don't bother-I bought about 350 metre's of Messi&Paoloni Ultraflex in both the 7mm and the 10mm size coax cables in two runs about 5 five years ago.It was fitted to my antennas on the 2, 70 and 23cms bands and after a few years,I found things started to become very lossy !.I took the antennas down to find out what was going on and found both the braid and the copper shield of the the 7mm and 10mm coax where corroded with moisture. The connectors where the proper ones you used in you video and installed as per factory specification( the joints where well sealed and wrapped with self- amalgamating tape. It is not just a bad batch of coax because I had some cable left over from the previous install to be used as patch cables.This was stored and kept very dry,but when I came to use it it had also gone bad.When I bought the cable both the braid and sheld was nice shiny copper . The water problem happened on all of three feeders on all three antennas simultaneously. If you cut into the coax anywhere along the corrosion is still present. There are no cuts or nicks in the covering, I bought this coax as an investment thinking like yourself it is best quality and hoped in would last for years. I have my ham ticket for over 40 years and this is the worst cable I have ever used .Has anybody out there had a similar experience with this product?-a warning again don't waste you money. A concerned Ham
At 7:28 you identified the connectors as PL-259. I'm most familiar with them as they are "Type N" connectors. We used them on all but the highest frequency equipment when I was in the US Navy. PL-259s plug/SO-239 socket referred to as "UHF connectors" are the cheapies so commonly used on ham and commercial HF, VHF, and UHF mobile and base equipment. You did correctly identify the connector as a Type N at 9:55.
@@michaelkilpatrick5331 I respectfully disagree. The resolution of the image at about 7:25 is a bit poor, but from I'm able to discern, it looks like a Type-N to me. Also at about 7:51 the male pin is clearly that for a Type-N.
**Video Update** The comparison in regards to loss was between LMR cable (solid core) and stranded core cable (Hyperflex 10).
Generally all solid conductors have better attenuations, the fact that Hyperflex 10 has equal performance is an incredible achievement considering it is much more flexible.
Also - Hyperflex 5 has full copper screening - not copper clad aluminium.
USE LMR - 400 STRANDED NOT SOLID
For amateur radio, LMR has a more favorable cost/benefit relationship.
For HF, solid center. For VHF and higher, the preference is stranded due to skin effect. I'm only comparing stranded vs. solid as UHF and above, the real preference would be helix type (hollow center conductor) with DIN (better than N) connectors. The latter is more with LMR and cell and very costly, but for us hams, stranded center conductor with high quality connectors. While Messi & Paoloni are a bit more pricey, they are worth it in quality and will last longer, actually making them more economical. Messi, using a stranded center is about the best you can get for Ham. Their connectors are incredible.
You have the solid and stranded loss backwards. The stranded usually has more loss s the signal is jumping from strand to strand as you go higher in frequency..@@DanKuches
The M&P connectors have completely revolutionised the "fiddle factor" in the shack. They are brilliant. Buy once cry once.
100% correct Tom. You can't beat the quality for the price!
@@HamRadioDX Hi!
New ham/new subscriber setting up Astron 35A power supply, IC 7300 and probable EFHW antenna to start. Not planning on a tuner to start. QTH rainy and cool.
Are the M&P connectors waterproof like N type connectors? Do they have an alphanumeric descriptor or just called M&P?
Do they only attach to each other or are they compatible with any particular other connector? Will check out their site for sure!
Thank you!
73,
John - KK7JBZ
@@johnbauman4005 Hi John,
Congrats and welcome to amateur radio! The M&P compression connectors are designed for protection against water ingress, but I wouldn't say they are waterproof. I'd still recommend sealing them, either with their Silicon Seal or self-amalgamating tape.
messi.it/en/catalogue/50-ohm-rf-coaxial-cable/n-male-connectors/10mm/solder.htm
messi.it/en/catalogue/accessories/shrink-tube-mep-silicone-seal-l.htm
The connectors are labeled per the cable that they fit, the type (N male or female).
They are compatible with whatever is the opposite connector (regardless of brand), so an N male will mate with a N female. A PL-259 with a SO-239 etc.
73 and good luck!
Haydon welcome to the "M&P convert club", like you for years i used rg 213, in my case it was cabinex rg213M , my situation is from my shack to my tower i have underground 4 inch pipe going to a external box near my tower and then up my tower to various antennas or in a different direction to my to other antennas,, approx 2 years ago i bit the bullet and after my consideration bought 2 100m rolls of ultraflex 10 and the M&P scissors, i know have 8 lengths @ 10ms underground coming into my shack onto a copper plate, and the same on the exterior box, during the cable install a good friend of mine of 25 years ham experience was helping me do the cable pulls (not easy 3 differnt bends), i could see he was interested, so i sold him 25m @ below cost(due to his help/friend), once mine was hooked up we could see a difference on hf even with standard pl259s, when M&P evolution plugs were first available in the UK my friend bought some immediately and fitted them and noticed on his simple end fed dipole better rx,i went round his on one particular day (i live 2and half miles from him), and he had his radio on 17m ft8 were i had just came from @ my home qth and he was getting 2 S points better on rx, please bear in mind that he lives in a terraced house in a town location so lots of houses close by, where i live less than 10 minutes away outside of town with 4 neighbours nearby,so impressed with difference with the rx was i , i immediately bought the required amount of M&P evolution plugs pricey yes quality 110% for a fit once never replace plug its a no brainer, my rx has also gone up by 2 S points,in fact at the time this video comment 2 days earlier i worked roly ZL1BQD in the wwdigi ft8 contest, a mere 11,210 miles on 40m ,or with the same coax and plugs i worked ZL2CC on 60m with 100w him 15w eirp @ 11,319 miles to gain me a all zones on 60m/9 bands in total, the beauty of this cable is like you said it bends no problem, suitable for rotators etc, and as i understand the figures is good for 9kw key down on 80m cw, not i need that in the UK :), yes its pricey and so are the plugs, but if your dropping 3-6k in a radio/pc /headset etc ,etc why not get a 100m drum or 2 and the correct plugs, here in the UK i have found Radioworld of Birmingham best for customer service for M&P products, good choice Hayden :) :)
Haydon, The M&P cables and connectors are unbeatable! no IF's and no BUT's. I use Hypeflex 5, 7, 10 and 13 here. As well as the direct bury Hyperflex 10. Allow me two quick points. The PL259 connectors have a rounded nose and are soldered internally. Brilliant idea. No more scraping of the excess solder of the actual pin cause it will not slide into the SO239.
The scissors are a MUST and for the following reason: If you cut a coax cable with a side cutter... NO MATTER how sharp.. you tend the deform (flatten) the inner conductor somewhat. Using their scissors.... that problem never occurs. I had long run out of naughty words while trying to get the center conductor back into shape.... as it is a perfect fit on the Pin... but only if you have not deformed to center conductor. Once you use these scissors, you will never go back.
To all colleague radio hams... drop into their website: it is TRULY A GOLDMINE of info on all matters coax cable and connectors. I refuse to use anything else. Am driving my zachtek 180 milliwatt transmitter on Whisper with 20 meters of Hyperflex 10. The dammed thing is ALL OVER VK LAND AND ZL land ! I'm going to be barred from ever visiting down under. Enough said ?
Albert. EI7II.
After years of compression and crimped connector failures, I now only use entirely soldered connectors that I solder myself so I know it's done right. Intermittent RF connections are the bane of RF communications.
Hi VK3YLN here. I can 100+% also endorse professional quality M&P gear. I found them a little over 12 months. I am rapidly ditching all my old coax cable for theirs.
They truly are the Roya Royce of coax in quality, buid and Spec's .
They outperform other coax for the same diameter. Their connectors are sensational - so do what I'm doing - ditch your ROC made stuff (give them away to the 27 Meggers)
Easy to install and long term, they will out perform crimp stuff (personal experioence) especially where coax movement occurs due to wind & on rototors . As HamRadio Dx states whatever your losses at the TRx end of the coax its gone! - no LNA is really going to replace those losses without changing the S/N ratio.
Yes cables little more expensive but with better service quality and performance for longer life duration . M&P also provide some Sahara versions for extreme hot conditions
Buy once, cry once! Great cables! Thanks for your thoughts mate.
Brilliant cables have a 30metre run of Hyperflex 13 on VHF/UHF, runs easy round the rotator.
I use Hyperflex 10 on both HF antennas and Ultraflex 7 for jumpers.
Here in the UK the price is not to bad for the quality.
The connectors may seem expensive but are very good quality.
This might be news for someone who didn't know about modern foam-dielectric, 100% shield cable. If you are comparing, RG-58 is more like LMR-195. LMR-240 compares with RX-8X. There are a couple of types of LMR-240, including some stranded. I used solid-wire DB for a buried HF run at my old house, almost as good as 213 but way easier to bury. There are quality 8X variants out there with foam and 100% shield that have similar performance to LMR-240 or the Hyperflex 5. I really doubt the significant figures on those tables. You might try measuring something. There is no way anyone amateur is going to notice, or even measure, fractions of a dB.
Two things I found out the hard way about foil-wrapped foam-dielectric coax:
1) Never solder connectors other than the center pin (as quickly as possible). The foam will melt. Crimp or maybe clamp is the way to go, with the right tools.
2) Mind the bending radius. Too tight a turn and the center conductor will eventually migrate toward the shield.
M&P make an awesome Coax connector. The shield doesn't require soldering, only the center pin does, atleast with the "N" connectors I purchased. There is a thick neoprene gasket that puts an enormous amount of pressure on the shield when using open end wrenches to tighten down the nut into the connector body.
M&P connectors are some seriously heavy duty machined connectors that will withstand the test of time!🤠👍⚡️🎙
I have installed M&P Ultraflex 7 Sahara cables in my mobile for mobile/portable HF. They are hooked to a switch in the cab so I can switch between ham sticks while mobile and 2 different antennas while portable. I really like the compression connectors. Soldering the center conductor took a little patience as I was not at my soldering desk but outside in the elements. But I am very impressed after dealing with LMR400 for VHF/UHF antennas. 73 de KI5HXM!
Thank you! I've been looking for the connectors for a long time and did not know where they came from.
Thank you for this video! I use the M&P 7 mm cable since 3 years for my /p operations at my camping trips, from 80m to 70cm bands, it works excellent! Ham radio operator for now over 40 years, what a nice cable, after experiences with those RG- and stiff Aircell-Cables ;) vy73 from Hamburg/Germany, Dietmar, DL4HAO
I am sold on this. I am getting QRV on 23cm then hopefully 13cm soon. The Westflex 103 isn't quite enough and I need something better.
I switched over last year….one of the best decisions made. Great video with appropriate talking points- W1FYG 🎙
Thanks Don! I appreciate it!
I can't say enough about M&P coax and connectors. I have Hyperflex 10 feeding my 10/11m antenna, the only wish I have is the dielectric, not a fan of foam, would be nice if Teflon was used instead, but M&P coax is slightly better than RG- 213, and M&P's coax connectors are precision machined units, definitely TOP SHELF craftsmanship!🤠👍⚡️🎙
Do you know why it's called "RG"? An interesting story. It is called RG because in WWII when field communications were improved, the term RG referred to radio guide. The way equipment was connected.
and Uni Radio Metric for the flexible versions such as URM70 in lieu of RG59
great stuff M&P
Iv used Ultra Flex 7 for the past 5 years on my portable set-ups as it works well on 2m 70cm for SSB competitions. HF, well, with a resonate dipole performs amazingly.
After watching this though, I will invest in some Hyperflex 5 for HF portable to get the weight down. Thank you HRDX.
Airborne 5 is also a good option for a RG-58 substitution that is light weight! Cheers!
Quite impressive when you consider that M&P HF 10 is almost half the price of Ecoflex 10 Plus, with almost identical performance.
Fantastic timing , I’m shopping for coax 👍🏻
Nice! I think, you can also buy from Gigaparts, but I'm not entirely sure.
Scotch brand makes same American made products. 99 % of ham operators don’t use his brand. His loss number,d is not HF
Definitely on my shopping list, along with DX Commander Signature 12.5!
I do have 2 related questions:
1. Is there an argument against using “N” connectors for HF.
2. Can you do a video on static/lightning protection. More interested in product recommendations. I suspect there is some rubbish out there.
1. Not really an argument against using N for HF... only that nearly all HF radios will have a SO-239 (or BNC) on them rather than a N type so you'll need an adapter.
2. I'll put it on the list. Lightning isn't really a major issue around here. I don't use any lightning arrestors and (tough wood) I've never lost any gear to a strike.
Hi Terry, I was researching these cables and I thought there was an ‘N’ type available from M&P. I would love to put one one for any needed ‘N’ type. I really like the way these compression connectors go on. I used to say no to UHF/PL-259 connectors for higher frequencies but if the cable performs anything like I hope I don’t think the loss at the UHF connector will be bad. This is my own opinion. Cheers, 73 de KI5HXM!
Hi Terry The N connector is certainly the best solution to go for.
Anyway, for the HF we have brought the N connector technology to the M&P-UHF EVO connector. They look very similar and the performances of the UHF EVO are far beyond those of the classic PL 259, to such an extent that could be used up to 4 GHz
@@brentjohnson6654 N connectors along with our UHF EVO are our best sellers
@@MessiPaoloniSRLAncona thank you! You have cleared up things for me.
Just changed all my RG58 to ultraflex 10. Can’t close the hatch to my roof anymore as it’s so thick, but it’s worth it!
Ultraflex 5 or 7 is also a good alternative if you need it a tad smaller.
Nice video. How about LMR - 400 Ultraflex? I use that at the antenna/rotor.
I use 600 UF. Extremely expensive but had a very long run with virtually zero db loss
I just bought some of their BNC and PL259 connectors. I am looking forward to them arriving. I have not found crimp connections all that reliable so am changing everything to commercial soldered connections I use milspec RG58 C/U as I mostly/only do SOTA. Their cable does look nice but.
Cheers
Andrew VK2ZRK
In addition to my last. I have made a few feed lines from LMR400UF and I only use genuine Times Microwave Systems connections. I think if you are going to spend that sort of coin on coax why scrimp on the connections.
73
VK2ZRK
Buy once, cry once when it comes to coax!
Definitely a fan. I run Hyperflex at the QTH, and use Airborne 5 for portable use (it's REALLY lightweight). Also, those plugs ❤
How good are the plugs! I swear I won't use anything else now!
I am not sure why I watched this and throughly enjoyed and learned from this. I only have a Citizen's Band transceiver in my Jeep. The cable runs about 2.5 metres. I am thinking of experimenting with 900Mhz public 33 centimeter band segments. I also experiment with the long forgotten 49Mhz with radios that transmit far more power than is legal. The legal limit being 100 milliwatts, the RadioShack® walkie talkie transmits barely under one watt. The 49 Mhz wireless phone is pumping out just over 2 watts. How did these transceiver manufacturers get away with so much more power than the legal limit?
I work for a telecomm, so its cool to pop over and see what you 50ohm guys are up to. The attenuation is truly wild.
I’ve got this double shielded coax with a solid center core and the outer casing is yellow and I’ve never seen such a quality response from any coax but this stuff this stuff is truly remarkable has anybody heard of it before I’ve got hundreds of feet of it and I won’t give it up for nothing
RG214 has a solid core ?
Good cable and Quality connectors is the way to go.. I personally make my own cables but that is just personal preference. Thank You
Bravo! Most aren't aware of, thus can't 'appreciate' the electrical and mechanical challenges of LMR/9913 style cables. #1 - Times recommends proper crimp connectors *only* for LMR, because you can't get a decent mechanical/solder connection with their flimsy inadequate braid, so twist and flex start to comprise the electrical/shielding capability. #2 - dissimilar metal between braid and aluminum foil - this also compromises the electrical/shielding factors. Both of these can eventually result in poor performance/loss of shielding over time. Worse, PIM, passive intermod/mixing at the bad braid/foil points - for that reason most commercial sites prohibit using LMR-anything.
Good video Hayden. Good to see the comparison matrix. I agree about the awesome connectors too. I have not bought any coax yet and probably will get M&P. I don't think I'll transmit over 430MHz so that should be perfect for me. My run would be about 12 to 15m or so. 🍻👍
Just used your code on my first order today from M&P. Hyperflex 7, pl259 connectors, the scissors, cutters, flux and of course the shirt :) cheers from North QLD VK4LKG
Awesome! You’ll love the coax, it’s great!
good video but, when installing the connector A little more screen braid to connect to the connector body would be better when using high power. I have seen many bad (commercial) installs that only needed re-terminating to solve an issue. Keeps me in a job!
@HamRadioDX - Thanks for this update, when i put up my new antenna's, ill try this coax over the excess RG58 i have laying around. | Price of LMR400 makes it all the more of a incentive to buy Hyperflex 10. Spending a ridiculous amount on LMR, only for the motorized antenna mount to break down the core and shield over a few months from its rigidity. Means a more flexible cable is a no-brainer.
LMR does great in straight runs through conduit, but on a motorized mount, your either stuck switching between other coax and balancing the loss from that (and the connectors) or making some type of solution to strain relief your feed line.
---
How does Hyperflex handle weather changes? Hot and Cold temperatures, do they affect the cable or induce additional loss? | I cant Speak for Tazzies, but in VK2, we get everything from 49c+ to -5c. | Does this stand up to these weather conditions? Can a station operate for a year or more reliably without cable damage?
The specs say that hyperflex 10 will deal with -40 to +60... check out their "Sahara" cable!!!!
Thanks, Hayden, this has been a revelation!
"...then I discovered Messi and Paoloni cable." Too bad that they signed-up with 'MFJ' to be the "EXCLUSIVE" distributor. Makes F'n Junk being a company that I've been forced to ban from my life due to their utterly horrific QA (I can literally drag out a half-dozen examples and point to the obvious and inexcusable design and build flaws). Thus, I can't buy anything that MFJ has anything to do with. They're the sort of company that would likely scrunch up the otherwise quite lovely coax into a 1-cm radius for shipping, or find some other way to ruin everyone's day. Maybe I could buy online and avoid MFJ.
MFJ sells M&P? Thanks! I love MFJ. They have a better track record in my shack than Yaesu!
Yaesu makes some dang fine door stops and foot rests
Not a fan of Mighty Fine Junk either so I bypassed them and bought directly from M&P !😏👍
Gigaparts sells M&P
Gigaparts is what pops up when I go to the site.
RG400 50 ohm with a Velocity of 69.5 low loss Teflon insulation Trippel shelled, good up to 12.4 GHz At 1GHz it can handle 600 watts. Also on the Ham frequencies it can handle 1,000 Watts and more. a little smaller than RG58. Its used in all kinds of aviation equipment private and military. Highly heat resistance, you can put on your connector with out melting the insulation. One caveat it's a little pricey not to bad though. Amazon no name 40ft about 70ish dollars, it goes for a lot more at other places. I love this stuff, great feed line coax cable and jumpers between equip..
I use them too.
Great quality and make a great improvement.
The M&P service is super.
Switched to M&P cable and connectors a long time ago and have never looked back! M&P has definitely raised the bar!! de W5ODP
Thanks Dave
Amazon-sold Chinese-made 'KMR400' is cheap, so cheap I even use it for HF. Only 0.8dB loss per 100-ft at 30MHz, I've confirmed. Easy to terminate with latest connectors. Results are great, no disappointments.
I've been curious about KMR400 on Amazon. I'm wondering how the outer jacket holds up to UV over time when installed outdoors? Times Microwave claims their LMR400 is good for 20 years.
@@jeff2424 My tri-band 3-el Yagi has been installed only since last autumn. But most of the KMR400 coaxial cable is either in an underground conduit across the lawn, or mostly under pine needles and twigs to reach the mast. If it works for five years, I'll be perfectly happy. I expect it'll last a lot longer than that. My previous coax was bought used (decades old) and I still worked all over Europe (easy from eastern Canada). Great fun. 73.
I've had some run to a rooftop antenna for about a year now with no noticeable issues. Very happy with it for the price and what I'm trying to accomplish
I like the compression connectors even for plain old RG-6 that we all have seen countless times. They are made to such tolerances that unless you hold the cable straight while removing it, it feels more difficult. Of course a snug fit is good.
Great stuff , I use hyperflex 7 for everything here 👍
The best!
@@HamRadioDX, thanks for the vid. Question, how were you able to reply 6 days ago to a vid I received today? 🤔 73
Thanks for the informations about Coaxial Cables and Connector...
Short and well presented
Glad it was helpful!
Mil Spec RG214 is good! It can be a little more problem to put connector on because it has 2 brades. That connector should be water tight!
Yes! I’ve used 214 before on repeater interconnect cables too
@@HamRadioDX A little over a year ago at a hamfest when it was over someone just left to small coil of 214. I am getting into ham after I retire. SS is only income! So I grabbed it up. Not checked it but maybe 15-20 feet. Used but it will make some jumpers for VHF-UHF Radio to power/SWR meter, and other things like that. Or maybe long enough for short run to antenna for Feld day or POTA!
I have no idea why one would use RG-58. RG8x, LMR-240 is a better choice where small cable in required. LMR -400 or Buryflex is ideal for longer runs or high power. I use these cables in my station except for patch cables.
In your installation segment. you skipped past the hard part. Getting the white spacer over the stranded braid is not trivial (nor a breeze). If you are incredibly careful to not touch the center conductor at all, you may be able to get the white insulator over the cable. I end up putting a screwdriver in the hole of the white insulator and widening it just a bit. That usually works.
Never had a problem with the white insulator and putting it over the end of the cable. Give the strands a twist if they are loose/won't fit
Because of your video I just ordered 105 ft and 110 feet for Hyper Flex 13 For my new Satellite station I am building. I sure hope you are correct it was not cheap! I was going to use LMR-600 but it does not flex at all and I was worried about all the loss with connectors patching it into some flexible cable at the antenna and in the shack. TO the best of my ability to figure this stiff out I think it almost as good as the LMR600 and flexible so I ordered it. Wish me luck! DE K8OCN
Good luck! You'll be happy with that cable, it's great stuff.
Newbie here. I ended up using Telco Antennas TEL450 1/2" Corrugated Coaxial Cable on my IC9700. My mate and I bought a roll and in the end used it everywhere. It pretty rigid stuff but once you get used to working with it the losses are so low that it really wasn't worth buying the LMR400 or anything else for that matter @ 6.50 /metre. Signal Loss: 0.067dB/m @ 850MHz, 0.11dB/m @ 2100MHz. The connectors are a bit pricey but beautifully made.
That's LDF4-50 or 450 Heliax. Yea when I do a permeant vertical install for VHF/UHF I'll use that stuff too. I think where M&P works well for guys using Heliax is when they're running Yagis on rotators, you can have high quality connectors going to a low loss flex cable for the rotator.
@@shanerorko8076 Which is exactly what I do. M and P on the flexible part of the rotator and then the 450 to the radio.
Try Hyperflex 13... it's so flexible that your installation work will go much smoother. Used by the USAF and in Dwingeloo radio telescope, to mention some...
Hello
Is ther a tool that can cut the outer plastic and other things of the Rg316 cable, that they are ready in pune cut go to be attached for soldering and crimping without handling a knife and risking to cut in the conductor wire and shielding? 🤔
I am EXTREMELY interested in those connectors. I guess I'm just a major clutz because it's not unusual for me to have cut off a compression/solder type connector for lmg400 to start over. For me it seems that if I don't cit everything to the perfect length etc., it may not work well. I mean, I've done many, and they've been hanging in there for years, but I just hate doing it. I think that compression type terminator may be just what the doctor ordered.
I am baffled though about them using MFJ. I will give them a try regardless. Let's hope they just distribute and don't even package. Oh my they wouldn't let MFJ do any manufacturing would they?
Do they make a version that works with Imperial adjustable spanners?
LOL
Great video my friend. I'm considering a chimney mounted Comet GP-3 and I'd need 75-100' run to the shack. Which M&P cable should I use?
Hyperflex 10 (or 13 - for even lower loss especially needed on UHF) should be good
I use LMR-400 for everything except for 1.2Ghz SSB where I have a run of LMR-600. All of my coax runs are 40ft because my rigs are in a closet and I remote control them. Not having the rigs on my desk made my runs super short.
so , is it wrong to use lmr400 for the cb in my semi truck? i add about 8 coats of liquid electric tape to the connectors. it has to endure 70mph road speed for 10hrs daily, plus wind speed, salt water at the same speeds, and UV. was thinking i should try lmr600, but that might be overkill. lmr240 on my 11m base station(
LMR240 is comparable to RG8X. They even use the same connectors. RG58 should be compared to LMR195. same for connectors with these two as well. I build my own cable kits for 800/900mHz with LMR240 due to the loss numbers.. I am going to look into this brand based on your video here.. thanks!
Great info Hayden! Dammit, now I gotta spend more money! Thanks, mate!
Oops... I need to put "Credit Card Warning" at the start of my videos
Where is the stealth 7 for portable field use?
Very happy with M&P I have three runs going all the way up the 70 foot crank up tower with 15 ft of mast out the tower top. In the next few weeks planning to have the tower cranked over to pull down a hex beam and and a 10 element 2 meter Yagi replace the hex with a three element Cubex HF 10-20 quad and HOPING to replace the 10 element 2M Yagi with a pair of stacked 2m/440 8 element Quads. Just waiting for the summer to cool off a bit it is still in the high 80's and 90's which for me is a bit too warm to be playing antenna out in the yard for the whole weekend. UHF\VHF Quads are assembled in the driveway. still need a little tuning tweaks but otherwise ready to go. the HF Quad is boxed up in the Garage waiting to be broken open... Anyway. Back to M&P so far I am happy with my 3 runs of Hyperflex 10 and the M&P connectors. The connectors are a little pricey when you have to buy about 20 of them, but not too bad, and they are very high quality connectors. I also ordered my .400 size 75 Ohm stacking harness cable from them, Got all my cable from Italy to Chicago in three days!!!! YES THREE DAYS!!!! fastest overseas shipping I have EVER SEEN! and shipping didn't cost a fortune either.... They have my business from now on if and until I discover a reason they shouldn't.
Thanks for the feedback I appreciate so much Nick
Wonderful advert for M&P.
All positive comments are spontaneous and were made by real users with years of experience on personal use. Strange to say in Europe, despite the many ethnicities, languages, mentalities, prejudices, among the various countries, the M&P product has spread in time of record, also thanks to exceptional word of mouth that goes far beyond the best marketing or advertising. Let's stop insisting on these nationalistic prejudices, especially if the TH-cam profile is completely empty.
Rg 400!! You just can’t beat it, literally the best coax on the market. 73
Lmr600UF is where it's at. Very expensive but virtually zero loss. Stranded core instead of solid. Wouldn't advise anyone to use it unless you had a long run to your antenna.
LMR 600 UF is a great cable, but may I suggest keeping in consideration Hyperflex 13 which is smaller (.500), lighter, and more flexible thanks to the 37 copper wires as opposed to the 7 wires of LMR 600 UF, and has got approx the same attenuation.
I forgot....even cheaper.
Ive never actually tried these, but I've also never tried the crimp connectors either.... I've always used the soldered connectors, which I think as far as being "Robust" probably are better than the crimped type and at least come close to the type you're showing provided you use good ones like the silver and teflon type
I Inhereted A Ship Container FUll Of Radio And Electronic STuff, There Where Cables, So Much Cables That I Sold Many of Them To Scrap As Copper Cabbles, Then I Looked At TThem In DetailA nd Turned Out TThat I Had There Many Many Russian Military Grade Coaxial Cables, Now Im So Happy That I Have Them, Inside Its All Silver Coated Pure Copper, Will Use Them In My radio Tower Build Because I Have Hundreds Of Meters If Not Kilometers In There, I Cant Pick Up The WHole Strip Of The WIre And Lets Not TTalk About The Other Wires, All Milittary Grade Data Cables That Im Thinking Of Using In Other Projects, Some Of Them I Cutted Up In peces For Smaller Use Like In My Filters And Sttuff Because The Pure Copper Is Much Better To Solder On Then Whats Out Now, Coper Thats Mixed With So Much Aluminium And Zinc That The SOlder Doesnt Want To Stick TTo It (If You Solder A Lot You Know What Im Talking ABout) Copper Wire That Doesnt Want To Adhere Solder No matter What Heat Or What AcidOr What paste You Are Using, With These Militaryu Grade Copper Silver Wires I Can Use JUSTT LEAD To Solder Anything, But ALWAYS Make Sure That There Is Connection Between Copper To Copper, Twist Copper With Copper AND ONLY THEN SOLDER, Dont Silder Where There Is Gapps Where There Is No Copper AndOnly Solder, That Will be BBIG Mistake In Radio Wires / Antenna Wires, That Point Will Act As resistor In Some Cases. Make Sure You Twist Copper Wires Together ANd THEN Solder .. I Learned Thatt HARD WAY !
I would liked if you would have put up the max power rating and total length of the wires.
So, if the M&P Hyperflex 5 is comparable to LMR240 in terms of loss and power handling, what's the case to be made for purchasing a boutique brand?
How long do you think that connector's long black rubber grommet between the clamp nut and the ferrule that captures the braided shield can maintain sufficient compression? Plastics flow, especially when warm. For the Amphenol (and others) there is a thin gasket between the nut and the clamp that often gets cut during assembly, so full metal to maintain compression.
The cable looks good, but I don't like the connectors.
hat about shielding and noise reduction? M&P's website says their cables have a denser outer braid than other coax and also the copper-foil inner shielding, is N&P coax any quieter on receive than RG-213 or LMR?
Figured a 2.4 GHz radio would be mounted at the antenna, with a remote control inside? Maybe that's more with 10GHz and higher?
Not even the numbers for losses are great on Hyperflex.
The shielding is also about 10dB better than most competitors.
To me, this was the Main reason to switch because I livie in a rather noisy environment.
Late watch, however a "Shifter" is on a manual vehicle :)
The question begs, do these M&P coax's duplex well ?
As most have learned that cables similar and to include LMR 400 as example, do not duplex well !
But I was disappointed looking at the M&P loss @ UHF !
And really very similar to Times Microwave cables, as well as others !
How ever their connectors are interesting !
Did you ever find an answer to this? My understanding is that LMR400/9913F don't duplex well due to the aluminum foil which, when it corrodes, forms a diode against the tinned braid. With M&P coax there's no aluminum, just copper foil and copper braid. This *seems* like it should duplex well, but I'd love to know what others have found.
@@k9yk
No I have not !
It is my understanding that cables like LMR 400, because of their use of dissimilar metals, after sometime, they begin to become noisy when passing RF thru them, once they get some age on them, likely for the reasons you mentioned !
Since the feed line you mention uses copper for both, I would think the chances for any rectification would be eliminated ?
In that regard, they sound promising, but in my opinion, still lack anything Earth shaking as to the losses at Higher Frequencies !
Sad as it is, it's just the nature of the beast !
And depending on how High you go in frequency, if you're not using something the size of a fire hose, losses are still going to be high !
I found this especially true when I ventured into GMRS !
Where it really got my attention !
Where if I remember correctly, a cable like
LMR 400 had a loss of
3 db !
Essentially cutting your power in half @ 100 feet !
Awesome video Hayden,
Were you ever unfortunate enough to ever buy the "Tricky Dicky" coax?
It was horrible stuff and had a loss factor comparable to a sieve.
I once bought some "RG-213" and it came in a box to my house, the idiot
that packed it in the box kinked the cable on both sides by wrapping a large cable tie
around the middle of the bundle.
Back it went......
Nah mate! That sounded like a pain!
Just getting into Ham and trying to learn more about cables and I'm a noob here. So you mentioned LD4-50A you had used before going to M&P. But when I look at the attenuation for each at say 400Mhz, the LD4 is 1/4 the attenuation of the hyperflex 5. So other than flexibility, why would I want to use the hyperflex over LD4?
Good Job!
Thank You :)
Very helpful video with the cable quality👍
Glad it helped
I recently purchased M&P Extraflex Bury 10mm for a 330 ' feedline for HF. I'm wondering if you think this is acceptable or should I have got the 13mm instead? Great video BTW ...Thanks!
330' is 100m. At 28 MHz that's 2.1dB of attenuation - about 30% of your power/received signal lost with the Extraflex Bury 10mm.
The Extraflex over the same run and frequency is 1.6dB, so just over 25%, so not a whole lot of difference - and that's worse case on the highest HF band.
At bands like 40m the difference is very little (only 0.3dB difference)
Thanks for the quick reply! I spend most of my time on 20 meters so that's great news.
How long is the discount code valid for? I've been checking them out. I wish I hadn't gone and bought 2, 17 meter coils of RG-213 now...... I do need something light and low loss for portable operations though so I think I'll get that at least.
I don’t think there is an expiry on the discount code 👍
We confirm no expiry! Light and very very low loss, are Airborne 5 and Airborne 10, the utmost for Dxing teams such as in the forthcoming DXpedition at Bouvet island. A bit stiff though but buriable and sturdy and very light.
Extraflex bury 7 is a great choice adding more flexibility and sitting in between the two sizewise.
Since we're on the topic of coax, in your last video, the one about the 905, you mentioned the antenna setup using hard line for 2.4ghz. What is the benefit of using hardline over coax? I would greatly appreciate it if you explained when it is best to use coax, hardline and heliax.
Hardline is still coax, it's just a "hard" form.. i.e. usually solid or rigid copper outer (sometimes with no jacket) and lower loss than conventional coax.
A good summary is available here - audiosystemsgroup.com/HardLine.pdf
Hayden,
Are those scissors comfortable and effective? They look small, like children's scissors. Seems like they'd be better with larger finger grips and longer lever arm. Will buy on your say so...
Thanks!
73,
John - KK7JBZ
I wouldn't say comfortable, but they are effective! Sharp and designed for cable.
That said, they are a tighter fit than regular scissors in my hand.
What's the difference between the hyperflex 10 and the ultraflex 10 ?
Damn I was just looking for the best quality coax I could use for high speed internet. Don’t know how I went down the rabbit hole hole of coax cables.
Haha welcome!
How does that superflex compare to RG-214???
Nice video hayden wht do u do if only have the stiff lmr400 available on rotators use pigtail 213 or get a big space between rotator and lmr400
I wouldn't put LMR400 (with a solid core) around any rotator because the constant movement/flex may cause the centre conductor to fracture or break.. Use that cable on your fixed runs and then a short patch lead of Ultra or Hyperflex around the rotator will work well!
Wait, RG58 for UHF? Why? I thought because of the skin effect that the higher the frequency the more electricity flows on the outside of a wire and not through it, which means higher impedance at higher frequencies if you don't increase the size of the conductor. So why such a small cable for UHF and a larger cable for HF? Maybe I'm just dumb. Also, I thought stranded wire always had lower impedance at higher frequencies when compared to solid conductors because of the increased surface area (again, because of the skin effect). Maybe it's not the impedance that increases but something else, but either way, I think the rest is correct.
"Made in Italy with Passion"!. That's what I like to see. Italy's showing us all it CAN be done. Time we started making stuff in the west again. M&P just scream quality! Will it cost more? Yes of course, but I for one am tired of the inferior quality you get from... well, places where quality doesn't see to be top priority.
nice advert. mate.
how does the cable and the connectors fair in a marine environment?
looks like there is no benefit over the lmr!
missed the price per 10m comparison would have been a bonus. 73
LMR is good stuff. These are evolutions..
I'll stick with mil spec cable it dose cost more but it is a better cable than wat is out there because the outer coating is teflon and the dielectric center is not foam core but it is teflon it is still flexible and can handle higher power and heat with out melting or braking down . mil speck stands for military specifications
Good video 👍 thank you Sir. 73
Thanks Vern!
Copper-clad "aluminum" braid"? Are you sure about that? The photo says 'Copper".
CCA for Hyperflex 10. Copper for Hyperflex 5.
so what is the actual price on it?
Remember there is no ‘s’ in Andrew LDF4-50A.
Looked at importing this gear to aus was pretty pricey ... not sure how many would pay the price
Quite many Australians are using our cables already: Not as pricey as you might expect.. please contact us
@@MessiPaoloniSRLAncona done and now a reseller for Australia thanks the process has been so easy and much better the even some of our local suppliers thanks ..look forward to reselling your product
One of my biggest complaints is. A lot of coaxial cables are not copper. But copper coated steel wires that rust. Thus becoming unreliable. Test them yourselves with a magnet. Even resistor wires are steel these days. Cheers from old George in the UK.
Cheap Chinese cables are copper coated aluminium. I used that to my advantage for portable operation, I bought the cheapest RG-58 from China I could find. It really is quite light and performs about as well as you'd expect from RG-58!
@@paulsengupta971 Mine were steel and I check now with a magnet.
There is no trace of copper-clad steel in our 50 Ohm cables. All our cables have pure copper cores, save Airborne 10, which has copper-clad Aluminum core exactly like the classic LMR 400 to which it is inspired. We have made anyway some changes: we use copper foil and a copper-clad aluminum braid instead of the Aluminum foil and tinned copper braid. No rust! let us leave that stuff to the Chinese.
@@MessiPaoloniSRLAncona Thanks for your reply. I will do a video soon showing my findings. Showing power cables ad well as coax. Cheers from old George happy DX
What happened to RG59?
How do you mean?
@3:42 Frank, Jason, Mike and others use those scissors for cutting the end off a cigar… just sayin’
rg213 at 28 Mhz loss is better according to the coax calculator so why is this so good when rg213 is half the price
Buy once, cry once for quality goods. Buy cheap, pay the cost down the road
Thank you.
What is compatible to lmr600 ?
We have an outstanding cable named Hyperflex 13, with an Overall diameter .500" (instead of .600"), with comparable attenuations to LMR 600 UF
(UF stays for Ultra Flex, the version with 7 wires stranded core).
Our model instead has a unique 37 strands copper core for unparalleled flexibility, performance, reduced bulk, and reduced weight).
We do not make a version with single copper-clad aluminum, though, because it is too stiff.
Of course, LMR 600, having a single core, has a lower loss, while the LMR 600 UF version is on par with ours for attenuations ....with a greater size.
Hi Hayden -Thanks for the video.
Buy this cable-don't bother-I bought about 350 metre's of Messi&Paoloni Ultraflex in both the 7mm and the 10mm size coax cables in two runs about 5 five years ago.It was fitted to my antennas on the 2, 70 and 23cms bands and after a few years,I found things started to become very lossy !.I took the antennas down to find out what was going on and found both the braid and the copper shield of the the 7mm and 10mm coax where corroded with moisture.
The connectors where the proper ones you used in you video and installed as per factory specification( the joints where well sealed and wrapped with self- amalgamating tape. It is not just a bad batch of coax because I had some cable left over from the previous install to be used as patch cables.This was stored and kept very dry,but when I came to use it it had also gone bad.When I bought the cable both the braid and sheld was nice shiny copper . The water problem happened on all of three feeders on all three antennas simultaneously. If you cut into the coax anywhere along the corrosion is still present. There are no cuts or nicks in the covering, I bought this coax as an investment thinking like yourself it is best quality and hoped in would last for years. I have my ham ticket for over 40 years and this is the worst cable I have ever used .Has anybody out there had a similar experience with this product?-a warning again don't waste you money.
A concerned Ham
Belden have been doing compression connectors for decades, I was using them in the 80's
At 7:28 you identified the connectors as PL-259. I'm most familiar with them as they are "Type N" connectors. We used them on all but the highest frequency equipment when I was in the US Navy. PL-259s plug/SO-239 socket referred to as "UHF connectors" are the cheapies so commonly used on ham and commercial HF, VHF, and UHF mobile and base equipment.
You did correctly identify the connector as a Type N at 9:55.
Look again! The connector he shows in the bag is a PL259 for sure. Later he shows an N-type being assembled :-)
@@michaelkilpatrick5331 I respectfully disagree. The resolution of the image at about 7:25 is a bit poor, but from I'm able to discern, it looks like a Type-N to me. Also at about 7:51 the male pin is clearly that for a Type-N.
@@jimpiper5297 if you look at the printing on the top right of the package it plainly says PL-259.