Hey bookworms! I know my EU vids may seem redundant but I'm just always going to scream into the wind about how that Star Wars people complain about missing is still there. Enjoy!
Per your suggestion I am doing a buddy read with my fellow star wars head. Started with thrawn trilogy and working our way to njo. Thank you! We are on Jedi academy trilogy now and its so fun!
The EU ist awesome ❤! I read them aß a Kid and still going on. nearly 100 books, such a great stuff. just look at Thrawn from timothys originals he is such a menace to name only one (It's the most common example) but the yuzhan vong books I think those really got me. what are your favourites?
Nah Mike, you're just keeping it real man. It was wayyy better before Disney. And I'm with you, I'm not here to sh!t over and over on the new stuff. But if you ask me, I'm gonna tell you the truth. The EU is a thousand times better than anything Disney put out.
Yeah they didn't wanna consider anything Canon From 91-2,012 but Now they're going and using a whole bunch of the characters created during that time And giving them Alternate Story storylines Grand admiral thrawn for instance
This is what I've been saying. Every time I get upset about the new Star Wars shows and movies I just remember the 120+ novels I have on my shelves that I read growing up and can return to. While it might be nice to see new stories on the screen, the book is always better anyway.
I’ve been alternating with about 1 canon book and one EU/Legends book each month and I’m overall really enjoying the experience. The Star Wars books are so fun and entertaining and I appreciate not having to relearn a whole new worldbuilding and Magic system each time.
I agree with you Mike. I read the Thrawn trilogy and it absolutely felt like the original films. I could see the original characters in my head while reading.
I watched your older Star Wars EU video and it absolutely changed the way I approach the franchise. I read Heir to the Empire and I never looked back. Almost to the end of NJO now (Force Heretic I to be specific)
Preaching to the choir for me, currently rereading the NJO, nearly up to star by star . Worth checking out, you get the original trilogy characters fighting alongside a new generation
i really appreciate that you share the great stories and content of legends with people still. even if it doesn’t reach that many people think it’s so important to preserve these stories and allow them to live on. i’m only 21 and i absolutely adore legends and it’s nice to know that there are people looking to pass these stories down to the younger generations. keep it up man :)
Andor....Mandalorian...Rogue One....all excellent. The new movies had some flaws but all in all i enjoyed them as well. Acolyte is by far the worst but hey it had some good parts in it and the old star wars are still there to watch whenever. Can't expect the old star wars everytime you watch a new one its just going to be different. Can't hold it to that standard its just not fair to a show like Mandalorian because how much better could you really have made that show....it was a huge success and was super entertaining with iconic new characters that caught on as an international phenomenon instantaneously.
I also loved how the books tied into each other, especially toward the end, where there were emotional payoffs and loose ends wrapped up and callbacks that were very satisfying to someone who'd read most of the previous books. I exclaimed audibly when I read about Callista Ming and Abeloth, because I remembered her story from years prior.
I loved this video! It’s so wonderful to see other fans who appreciate the Star Wars EU. Mara Jade is an amazing character, but honestly? I’m glad Disney did not include her. I’m afraid they would not have done her justice. I’m a big Jaina Solo fan as well. Thrawn and the Yuzhaan Vong were unforgettable villains. Thanks for sharing! EU videos never get old for me!
OMG yes the EU! I was in high school when Heir to the Empire came out and I was so excited to return to a galaxy far far away. This video is making me want to start a reread of my extensive collection of books (100+). NJO hit hard and Vector Prime gutted me.
I love the EU, and when I say EU, I mean the dubbed "Legends" series. So many great villians and heroes that came out of the old EU. Wish Disney would pull more ideas from these stories.
Thank you so much for this video. Because of you I have just brought the three Thrawn trilogies and I have just started Heir to the Empire and it is amazing!
Started reading some of the knights of the old republic comics. Disney literally should’ve just turned that into a TV show and they would have a hit on their hands.
Well if I am honest, I am actually quite thankful that I was disappointed by the Disney era of SW. I got way more into the EU because of it. I had read some books and played some of the games (the KOTOR games are still some of the best SW stories period in my opinion) however, I hadn't read NJO until after TLJ came out. That was a treat. I also just got way more into other sci fi/space opera esque fiction due to being less interested in SW. In the case of books classics like Dune, recommendations from you such as the Sun Eater series, or just tons of 40k fiction. There is one space opera universe on par with the sheer scale of the EU. I just got more into other space opera media I hadn't checked out before such as in anime with Legend of the Galactic Heroes (this show basically does what Lucas was trying to do with the PT) or Gundam The Origin, which I had dragged my feet on watching/reading for awhile. So I see that as a win.
Mike I'd love to see more Star Was EU content from you and funny enough it was your original video on the EU that got me to read the Thrawn Trilogy and I've not looked back since.
Good video. I really needed someone to convince me to dive into this expanded world. I’ve been borderline for a long time. Love the “soul” of star wars and been disappointed for far too long
The books have completely eclipsed the movies and shows in my mind. So many tales from the EU and new canon are better than what we've ever gotten on screen. I've read all the new canon I'm interested in (which is most of it tbh) and I'm currently working my way through the Bantam era gearing up for New Jedi Order.
Thanks so much for making this video. It's rare to find positive SW content on social media. My first foray into the EU was the Han Solo trilogy by A.C. Crispin and I have been reading and re-reading EU novels ever since for the last 25+ years. Even the not-so-great books (The Courtship of Princess Leia, in my opinion) are still worth re-reading. You are so right about the mature content in the New Jedi Order series. There is a great deal of grief, violence, body horror, and complex political maneuvering. They really took the gloves off with that series and yet it was never over the top. They took a gamble by having us follow secondary characters and the villains for whole novels, and I never paused to wonder what was happening with the main group. The stakes were there. Respect was give to characters. These books really made the reader feel things. I cried too during Vector Prime (and Star By Star). Typically, I ignore the Disney SW content, but I have to say that I will be forever INCENSED that they discontinued Tom Jung's original cover art for the Thrawn trilogy when they reprinted. I feel privileged to own the original cover novels (especially without the "Legends" banner). I would bet they cost a pretty penny now!
Great timing, Mike. I just re-read Tales of the Bounty Hunters, which came out before the prequel trilogy. I'll have a review out for it in a couple weeks. I think I might review some more of those classic SW EU books at some point. Happy reading.
Legends is the canon, for sure. The old EU books is really what made me love star wars, was never just about the OT movies. Nu-lucasfilm is certainly fan fiction at this point.
So I watched this Video now and the way you are talking about those books... i could feel your emotions about them and i Was getting excited to read some of them aggain 😃😃 I mean those moments on Sernpidal or bobas bounty war series It's really brutal and they managed it so good to connect these Storys over so many different books from different Autors. some of the pictures in your Videos these are actually some of my books 😁😁I started with Prinz xizor and dash went from there to the Thrawn series to Hans origin Story smuggling glitzerstim, bounty wars, Jedi academy and so on and on until abeloth, Bane and they are all sooo damm good. as you said they are for grown ups with high stakes! kyp, Exar Kun, cadeus mara oh no it was so terrible her way at the end and jacen and everything. every Person who likes Star wars should definitly read them!! the latest ones i bought were the 3 new Thrawn books when he was young and some of the high Republik stuff. here in Germany they started always with dramatis personae on the First site (after book timeline) great great. oh I just remembered when mara and Anakin were on their own an the vongs after them sooo good or Luke with jacen when they explored Belkaden (right?) corran, karrde, cboath, Admiral Daala and so many other good Charakters. Fazit I love them all, like you said : Hit, Hit Hit .... ok thats cool but not completely Blowing my mind.... Hit Hit Hit, Hit thanks for bringing some good memories back 👍
I read the Thrawn Trilogy and loved it. The outbound flight is mentioned in those books so I read that and through it was great too. Haven’t got round to doing more but I will one day
Your EU videos, especially the Thrawn Trilogy video, are what got me started on the books. The Thrawn Trilogy reminded me of why I loved Star Wars. I had Timothy Zahn sign my books not too long ago!
EU comics are also great, as they really flesh out the stories in the EU books. Marvel is republishing them as Legends graphic novels in the Epic Collection and Omnibus formats.
All I can say is ... BRILLIANT!! you explained the EU perfectly. I've been collecting the star wars novels since the original novelisations from 1978 to the last book, CRUCIBLE, and all the related encyclopedias and references books. These books filled that 16 year void and they were great! They were just as big in the UK as in the US. Star wars fans are united no matter an ocean of water or an ocean of stars. Thank you for the wonderful video .
I really appreciate you making this video. I sort of grew up with the EU, I didn’t read them when I was young(I’m working on it now) but my older brother collected about 30 ish of them when he was in high school and kept me updated on big things that happened in the universe. I’ve since inherited the collection and added to it so that I now have over 100 EU novels. I can no longer acknowledge the existence of Disney Star Wars, this is my Star Wars universe.
Hey Mike, after watching a previous video a couple of years ago, I’ve been rounding up most of the EU (and new ‘canon’), and jumped in with both feet. I’ve read about 8 so far (following the Youtini Ultimate Reading Order) and having a blast. Everything you have gushed about is spot-on. Thrawn is next up!
I know everyone always rants about the Thrawn Trilogy, but while not as good but very close, it was the jedi Academy trilogy (which is prime mara jade) Also anyone who liked the mandolorian I would recommend the bounty hunter wars trilogy It felt like the EU version 30 years early.
I’ll keep it simple by saying that you are absolutely correct on everything with this video. My Episodes 7,8, and 9 will always be that Thrawn Trilogy.
When I was younger I would tell people I loved Star Wars, but as I got older I realized that most people think that just means the movies, and for me it was always the rest. The setting for tabletop games, the novels, the video games, and eventually the shows too.
@@mikesbookreviews The X-wing series was the first I read of the EU novels, and I have a few of them on my TBR now that I am older and have disposable income.
When I left the theater in 2017, I left Disney Star Wars, and after a 10-year hiatus, I jumped back into the Expanded Universe. I’ve yet to find a compelling reason to come back to Disney, and with every book/comic/RPG supplement I read, the wisdom of that decision only grows.
Disney should have just started with the vong. Mark, Harrison, and Carrie were all the right age to reprise their roles and with a coming together of characters throughout the franchise, Disney could have changed any character that was only ever in books and not widely known to fit the narrative they wanted.
Sad that star wars has become like politics, one of those things you can't talk about with friends or family with out fights breaking out. I've enjoyed The Acolyte, and found Andor to be one of the best Star Wars "things" period, but I understand there are people who those shows don't spark joy for them. They're in the star wars universe, but they feel uniquely distinct from the classic star wars movies in their tone, so liking A New Hope doesn't necessarily mean you'll like those shows. Still, when I even admit I enjoy those shows in a group of "star wars" fans, its crazy the vitrol that gets thrown my way. No I am not a disney shill, I just like what I like. I did not care for the Sequel movies, or episode 2, or 90% of The Clone Wars show, but I don't attack people who do, so its so strange how people seem to want to come to literal blows with me for expressing an enjoyment of a thing they don't like (and most of the time I find, that they didn't even actually watch, just a review of it, or the first 10 minutes of it). All that said, when people have complained about all the new star wars stuff sucking, I have recommended they explore the expanded universe, particularly if I know they don't read it like I do. To date the response I've gotten was more vitrol for some reason, like reading makes me even more of a "disney loving nerd". Makes me quite sad. Not only is some of the post disney canon stuff fantastic, but there's so much great stuff in the pre-disney Legends era, but it really feels like a huge chunk of the "fan" base doesn't want to give anything new a try, they just want to keep watching the OT over and over, maybe even just episode 4 and 5 over and over since many feel Lucas lost his way starting with episode 6.
5:50 - Ironically a lot of the push back I get when I express liking anything from post disney star wars is that disney has tried too hard to make nuisanced and interesting villians. They tell me, star wars was at its best when evil was just evil, good was just good, and disney has watered all that down with villians like thrawn, and so on, which is ironic since while thrawn is a major villian in the disney cannon, he didn't originate there, but in the EU.
I love the EU stuff but I genuinely really enjoy the high republic stuff. Soule is one of the best Star Wars writers out there, even including EU works.
@@mikesbookreviews Did you watch Andor as well? If so, did you like it? Because Andor and Mandalorian S1 & S2 are the main things why im hesitend to ignore Disney Star Wars and not just stick to the EU.
@@flabebe2615 What about Rogue One, TCW Season 7, Rebels, The Bad Batch, Tales of The Jedi, Jedi Fallen Order, and Jedi Survivor? Are those projects also the reason why you are hesitant on ignoring Disney Star Wars and not just sticking to Legends?
@@trevturp6891 Well, yes of course you are right in most parts! I wanted to keep it short and kind of counted Rogue One as a part Andor, TCW Season 7 is part of the rest of TCW, which is like the movies both legends and canon timeline, Rebels, the bad batch, tales of the jedi and the jedi: games are all good enough and even great in some parts, but i could live without them. For me personally, i allways try to combine the best parts of both timelines because both have great and mediocre stuff, but i hate the mindset of mine that: if i want to include for example Rebels i kind of have to include the Ahsoka show, because, of course the Rebels would still be around anywhere and thats what happened. But I dont like the ahsoka show and therefore am hesitend to include rebels or even the mandalorian to an instance into my headcanon.
Oh, man. This takes me back to some good times! I brought Heir to the Empire home and my dad asked me what i was reading. From that point on, I got to share these books with him. I have some funny memories of trying to hide the next book so I could start reading it before he did. I usually failed. Heh. The books always ended up with my unicorn bookmark and my dad's horrid dog-ear method in a race to see who finished first. Then dad would ask, "So, when's the next one coming out?"
I try not to use the word hate when referring to the current state of Disney SW. I'm apathetic now and YES if you love SW and Disney isn't quite your flavor definitely give expanded universe/Legends a shot you won't be sorry. Pleanty of SW EU to explore out there.
Hey there Mike, I'm curious if you have read ROGUE PLANET by Greg Bear, as I haven't seen you mention it. Since I was a big fan of his sci-fi books like Eon and Moving Mars, I was delighted to see him do a Star Wars novel. And since it's 20-something years since I read it, I can't remember the fine details, but I remember thinking it did a great job of fleshing out Anakin's character, and giving us an idea of how he could eventually fall. Plus the book had some interesting tie in to the new Jedi order stuff as well. Surprised I don't see it mentioned more? Have you read it, and if so, what did you make of it?
I do still check on the Disney canon sometimes, but the EU is so much better. I went to it about 5 years ago and found it so much better than the sequel trilogy in every conceivable way. Sometimes Disney does have some good stuff like Andor or Rogue One, but I don't think they're ever going to do anything that'll surpass the Thrawn Trilogy, Darth Bane Trilogy, or New Jedi Order.
I’m still making my way through. Started from the beg and moving chronologically. Prob read 15+ SW books? Fav: republic commando, darth bane, original thrawn, darth plagus.. there a lot of these on Libby so trading for free.
Original Thrawn trilogy is still head canon for me. I haven't read a lot of other EU stuff but I loved the storyline from the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight video games, wish Kyle Katarn would make a comeback.
Reading Star By Star (midway through NJO) was the first real like blown away storytelling from the EU, and from then on I was hooked. EU will always be canon in my heart.
The quality of the writing just isn't there after reading bunch of "real" scifi and fantasy books. Solid quick 3-4 star reads most of them though. After Thrawn, the Corellian trilogy was probably my favorite.
I loved the EU novels and was so excited when Disney got it thinking they would follow the novels but they didn’t and then said they had no material to work with. I even gave them grace and let that slide but…. When they started their rhetoric and preaching their beliefs at me and started degrading their fans then that’s when I stopped
I started my EU journey last year and really must get back to it. I read Darth Plagueis, Millennium Falcon and Death Troopers, all of them were fantastic!
I’ve been reading the expanded universe since last year and I have to say I enjoy a great deal too. I started with the old Republic and our EVEN/the Darth BANE trilogy/de Steve/annihilation/night Aaron ET, I’ve been read Shadowhunter, Lord of the Sith, all six movie time books, all five princess Leia books, the original Timothy is on throng trilogy, the Jedi Academy series, Asoka, Jedi, Kenobi, Donna, the Jedi, DP, count Dooku, shadow of the Empire, now I’m reading the new Jedi order serious. I just got finished reading vector prime I’m on book 2 as we speak. Hope to finish the entire series by next month then I will start the force fate of the Jedi. I really try to get in characters that I enjoy so, then going in chronological order. I even read all of the clone wars books as well. I’ve read quite a bit. I really enjoy the old Republic and the beginnings of the Sith/Jedi order. I haven’t read any of the Republic stuff as yet I love shadow point that was one of my favorite book so far, I have to say I watched so I’m about to watch the last episode of the alkaline watch the first two seasons of the Mandalorian, but I’m really enjoying the clone war series which is kind of cold watch. I wasn’t really into the last three movies even though I have them, for the sake of completing the Skywalker saga on film however, I enjoyed the
@@mikesbookreviews Yup. Emotionally matched for me only by a few other EU entries, like Sacrifice and Invincible in the books and Vindication and Legacy: War in the comics.
Great video. I love the EU. Started with Splinter when it first came out as a kid but it was pretty weak. Heir the Empire and beyond are mostly great. Some are a little slow and boring I guess. But I love the original characters. The area I have never ventured into is the NJO which I believe starts with Vector Prime. When I heard about VP and the negating of the force (Thrawn pet notwithstanding) I was pretty skeptical and saw it as maybe jumping the shark. So, I have never read those. But I hear so much good about them that maybe I will try someday.
Right. I remember reading it after RotJ realizing I wasn't getting any more movies and feeling let down. But when Heir came out I was in Borders for the release party. It was amazing.
Mara and the Solo kids might be my favorite Star Wars characters, other than the original trio, and they arent even in a movie. Now adays when I think about Star Wars its about the EU, not the movies so much
Love the EU… absolutely agree with you., many highs and some lows but I love it all.. One cohesive storyline spanning thousands of years… All power to those who enjoy the Disney content, but the EU (Legends) is truly great.. Awesome job btw, love talking Legends anytime..
Hey Mike could you read/do reviews for SW books that you haven’t read before? It’d be cool seeing more SW content (some variety) instead of these “Hey check out the Expanded Universe” videos.
I've read a few of the Disney "canon" novels and find a lot of those are better than what they're putting out on Disney Plus. I have a long way to go with these books - especially EU - but feel I'll likely be reading more books than watching the shows.
Are the authors and other people that put together the EU books still getting paid for them? I heard somewhere that Disney tried to cut them out of their contractual payment agreements they had with Lucasfilm.
What do you thing about the revenge of the sith novelization?I tried it and the writing style is a little.difficult for me with a lot of description.Does it get better/change later in the book?
Well said, the EU's definitely still worth enjoying today. Even the current SW books being published are generally way more enjoyable than anything live action. A lot of them are on par if not better than the Legends EU, so I'd highly encourage the five remaining SW fans besides myself to check them out. The games also seem to be very well received. It's just the shows and movies, they can't seem to not sabotage themselves. Before The Acolyte, I thought it was downright impossible to mess up a story that has the Sith in it . . .
Maybe I should’ve watched more of the video, but I just wanted to say that I like the thought of the EU. I’m more of a topical reader when I find something I like. So it’s okay if something isn’t canon. Atleast when it comes to certain things.
I read and enjoyed the Thrawn trilogy. After that, the amount of books seems daunting. Is there a list of essential/best books to read? Or should you just read everything? I’m more referring to post Thrawn Trilogy timeline.
@@mikesbookreviews Found and watched. Exactly what I was looking for! Virtually everyone who has read the legends books says they’re better than the sequels and Disney shows. I’m a huge SW fan and decided to read the better timeline. Thanks for responding!
I turned to the EU after the sequels came out, looking for something that wasn't hot garbage. The Darth Bane Trilogy was where i started and it was great. Picked up Heir To The Empire recently as well because of your older EU video and i thought it was great too, I've really gotta continue that soon
I enjoy all Star Wars, but I’m not going to lie, the glutton of Disney content that has been coming out has left me burnt out. I feel like live action / cartoons need to go on the shelf for a few years.
Since tha Acolyte it has been possible to watch streamers hate-watch the entire episodes for you. Did not give D+ a single minute of streaming time yet got to witness what an absolute train wreck of a production it was. My seven year old could have created a more logical story line.
Been reading through the EU in release order. Definitely a fair share of duds in there, but it’s still way better than what Disney has been giving us. Legends forever!
There are a bunch of unabridged audiobooks of the EU, though many EU books still do not have one. They're even still making some for "Essential Legends" books, including the X-Wing series and others.
Many are only abridged (such as all of NJO), but there are a lot of unabridged ones available too, including most Zahn books (except Choices of One I think), Darth Bane trilogy, most of the X-Wing series (others forthcoming) and a lot more. They’re on Audible, but often it’s possible to get them through Libby, depending on your public library.
I was motivated to read Heir to the Empire years ago, and I just finished the Legacy of the Force series a few weeks ago. I gave up on Disney Star wars after Mando season 2. NJO was overall great, and the final few books in that series were incredible. Really would love to hear a more in depth spoiler talk about LOTF video one day. Kylo Ren was like a very scuffed, abridged version of Darth Caedus. (I understand there was only so many hours of film vs many different books to try and do character development, but that's the superiority of the book medium over the films I suppose)
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Hey bookworms! I know my EU vids may seem redundant but I'm just always going to scream into the wind about how that Star Wars people complain about missing is still there. Enjoy!
We can lose our voices together.
Per your suggestion I am doing a buddy read with my fellow star wars head. Started with thrawn trilogy and working our way to njo. Thank you! We are on Jedi academy trilogy now and its so fun!
The EU ist awesome ❤! I read them aß a Kid and still going on. nearly 100 books, such a great stuff. just look at Thrawn from timothys originals he is such a menace to name only one (It's the most common example) but the yuzhan vong books I think those really got me. what are your favourites?
Nah Mike, you're just keeping it real man. It was wayyy better before Disney. And I'm with you, I'm not here to sh!t over and over on the new stuff. But if you ask me, I'm gonna tell you the truth. The EU is a thousand times better than anything Disney put out.
You should review individual books and/or read EU books that you’ve never read before
Disney should have adapted a lot of the EU novels as films and kept it all as official Canon. Then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
I feel like they took some good elements and tried to pass it off as their own idea, but absolutely 💩 the bed.
Yeah they didn't wanna consider anything Canon From 91-2,012 but Now they're going and using a whole bunch of the characters created during that time And giving them Alternate Story storylines Grand admiral thrawn for instance
If only they had competent leadership that could have seen this
Darth Bane trilogy is great. Great character development in the first book
Read the first two so far, thought they were both pretty good, although I’ve only read around 20 Star Wars books
As of now Path of Destruction is my favorite SW book
This is what I've been saying. Every time I get upset about the new Star Wars shows and movies I just remember the 120+ novels I have on my shelves that I read growing up and can return to.
While it might be nice to see new stories on the screen, the book is always better anyway.
Same
I’ve been alternating with about 1 canon book and one EU/Legends book each month and I’m overall really enjoying the experience. The Star Wars books are so fun and entertaining and I appreciate not having to relearn a whole new worldbuilding and Magic system each time.
Keep going!
Bane and Thrawne trilogy are essential Star Wars and simply amazing.
Indeed
Darth Bane: Path of Destruction might be the greatest SW book I’ve read so far! (I consider myself a noob in the EU)
I agree with you Mike. I read the Thrawn trilogy and it absolutely felt like the original films. I could see the original characters in my head while reading.
I used to tell people the only thing missing from those books was the John Williams soundtrack.
@@mikesbookreviews that’s how it feels definitely!
I re-read it, and it made me feel very sad. Because it was all it could've been.
I watched your older Star Wars EU video and it absolutely changed the way I approach the franchise. I read Heir to the Empire and I never looked back. Almost to the end of NJO now (Force Heretic I to be specific)
Heir to the empire is my next TBR for sure.
I’m working my way up to NJO. I’m going to be starting The Jedi Academy Trilogy soon
Preaching to the choir for me, currently rereading the NJO, nearly up to star by star . Worth checking out, you get the original trilogy characters fighting alongside a new generation
i really appreciate that you share the great stories and content of legends with people still. even if it doesn’t reach that many people think it’s so important to preserve these stories and allow them to live on. i’m only 21 and i absolutely adore legends and it’s nice to know that there are people looking to pass these stories down to the younger generations. keep it up man :)
From my point of view, there is no Disney Star Wars.
Andor?
Andor....Mandalorian...Rogue One....all excellent. The new movies had some flaws but all in all i enjoyed them as well. Acolyte is by far the worst but hey it had some good parts in it and the old star wars are still there to watch whenever. Can't expect the old star wars everytime you watch a new one its just going to be different. Can't hold it to that standard its just not fair to a show like Mandalorian because how much better could you really have made that show....it was a huge success and was super entertaining with iconic new characters that caught on as an international phenomenon instantaneously.
What Disney star wars 🤔???
@@madLphntthere all a cash grab
@@madLphntall garbage
I also loved how the books tied into each other, especially toward the end, where there were emotional payoffs and loose ends wrapped up and callbacks that were very satisfying to someone who'd read most of the previous books. I exclaimed audibly when I read about Callista Ming and Abeloth, because I remembered her story from years prior.
I was a blubbering mess in Unifying Force because they did it so well and it truly felt like the end for those original characters as the main focus.
I loved this video! It’s so wonderful to see other fans who appreciate the Star Wars EU.
Mara Jade is an amazing character, but honestly? I’m glad Disney did not include her. I’m afraid they would not have done her justice.
I’m a big Jaina Solo fan as well.
Thrawn and the Yuzhaan Vong were unforgettable villains.
Thanks for sharing! EU videos never get old for me!
From my point of view everything in the George Lucas era is canon. Everything past that point is fan fiction
"From a certain point of view..."
OMG yes the EU! I was in high school when Heir to the Empire came out and I was so excited to return to a galaxy far far away. This video is making me want to start a reread of my extensive collection of books (100+). NJO hit hard and Vector Prime gutted me.
New Jedi Order is legit tough. Vector Prjme crushed me in a way that was unmatched by even song of ice n fire.
I love the EU, and when I say EU, I mean the dubbed "Legends" series. So many great villians and heroes that came out of the old EU. Wish Disney would pull more ideas from these stories.
Eh, they'd just ruin them.
@@mikesbookreviews probably right
Thank you so much for this video. Because of you I have just brought the three Thrawn trilogies and I have just started Heir to the Empire and it is amazing!
I'm so glad!
The Republic Commando series about the clones was absolutely amazing. Same thing w the Darth Bane trilogy.
Started reading some of the knights of the old republic comics. Disney literally should’ve just turned that into a TV show and they would have a hit on their hands.
Well if I am honest, I am actually quite thankful that I was disappointed by the Disney era of SW. I got way more into the EU because of it. I had read some books and played some of the games (the KOTOR games are still some of the best SW stories period in my opinion) however, I hadn't read NJO until after TLJ came out. That was a treat. I also just got way more into other sci fi/space opera esque fiction due to being less interested in SW. In the case of books classics like Dune, recommendations from you such as the Sun Eater series, or just tons of 40k fiction. There is one space opera universe on par with the sheer scale of the EU.
I just got more into other space opera media I hadn't checked out before such as in anime with Legend of the Galactic Heroes (this show basically does what Lucas was trying to do with the PT) or Gundam The Origin, which I had dragged my feet on watching/reading for awhile. So I see that as a win.
Irony- this video comes out same day as acolyte finale 😂
Ha ha I was informed of that the day it came out
Thanks for the video and recommendations, always love your Star Wars stuff! :)
Thanks for watching!
Mike I'd love to see more Star Was EU content from you and funny enough it was your original video on the EU that got me to read the Thrawn Trilogy and I've not looked back since.
Excellent!
Good video. I really needed someone to convince me to dive into this expanded world. I’ve been borderline for a long time. Love the “soul” of star wars and been disappointed for far too long
Hope that you do!
The books have completely eclipsed the movies and shows in my mind. So many tales from the EU and new canon are better than what we've ever gotten on screen. I've read all the new canon I'm interested in (which is most of it tbh) and I'm currently working my way through the Bantam era gearing up for New Jedi Order.
Right. It's not even close.
Thanks so much for making this video. It's rare to find positive SW content on social media. My first foray into the EU was the Han Solo trilogy by A.C. Crispin and I have been reading and re-reading EU novels ever since for the last 25+ years. Even the not-so-great books (The Courtship of Princess Leia, in my opinion) are still worth re-reading.
You are so right about the mature content in the New Jedi Order series. There is a great deal of grief, violence, body horror, and complex political maneuvering. They really took the gloves off with that series and yet it was never over the top. They took a gamble by having us follow secondary characters and the villains for whole novels, and I never paused to wonder what was happening with the main group. The stakes were there. Respect was give to characters. These books really made the reader feel things. I cried too during Vector Prime (and Star By Star).
Typically, I ignore the Disney SW content, but I have to say that I will be forever INCENSED that they discontinued Tom Jung's original cover art for the Thrawn trilogy when they reprinted. I feel privileged to own the original cover novels (especially without the "Legends" banner). I would bet they cost a pretty penny now!
Great timing, Mike. I just re-read Tales of the Bounty Hunters, which came out before the prequel trilogy. I'll have a review out for it in a couple weeks. I think I might review some more of those classic SW EU books at some point. Happy reading.
Excellent!
Legends is the canon, for sure. The old EU books is really what made me love star wars, was never just about the OT movies. Nu-lucasfilm is certainly fan fiction at this point.
I agree 100%. This is my canon.
Right on
So I watched this Video now and the way you are talking about those books... i could feel your emotions about them and i Was getting excited to read some of them aggain 😃😃 I mean those moments on Sernpidal or bobas bounty war series It's really brutal and they managed it so good to connect these Storys over so many different books from different Autors. some of the pictures in your Videos these are actually some of my books 😁😁I started with Prinz xizor and dash went from there to the Thrawn series to Hans origin Story smuggling glitzerstim, bounty wars, Jedi academy and so on and on until abeloth, Bane and they are all sooo damm good. as you said they are for grown ups with high stakes! kyp, Exar Kun, cadeus mara oh no it was so terrible her way at the end and jacen and everything. every Person who likes Star wars should definitly read them!! the latest ones i bought were the 3 new Thrawn books when he was young and some of the high Republik stuff.
here in Germany they started always with dramatis personae on the First site (after book timeline) great great. oh I just remembered when mara and Anakin were on their own an the vongs after them sooo good or Luke with jacen when they explored Belkaden (right?) corran, karrde, cboath, Admiral Daala and so many other good Charakters. Fazit I love them all, like you said : Hit, Hit Hit .... ok thats cool but not completely Blowing my mind.... Hit Hit Hit, Hit thanks for bringing some good memories back 👍
Happy to do it!
I read the Thrawn Trilogy and loved it. The outbound flight is mentioned in those books so I read that and through it was great too. Haven’t got round to doing more but I will one day
Zahn knows his shit when it comes to this universe.
@@mikesbookreviews it seems so. Any recommendations in between Thrawn trilogy and new Jedi order?
Your EU videos, especially the Thrawn Trilogy video, are what got me started on the books. The Thrawn Trilogy reminded me of why I loved Star Wars. I had Timothy Zahn sign my books not too long ago!
EU comics are also great, as they really flesh out the stories in the EU books. Marvel is republishing them as Legends graphic novels in the Epic Collection and Omnibus formats.
I saw a physical graphic novel of the Thrawn trilogy. Really cool.
All I can say is ... BRILLIANT!! you explained the EU perfectly. I've been collecting the star wars novels since the original novelisations from 1978 to the last book, CRUCIBLE, and all the related encyclopedias and references books. These books filled that 16 year void and they were great! They were just as big in the UK as in the US. Star wars fans are united no matter an ocean of water or an ocean of stars. Thank you for the wonderful video .
I really appreciate you making this video. I sort of grew up with the EU, I didn’t read them when I was young(I’m working on it now) but my older brother collected about 30 ish of them when he was in high school and kept me updated on big things that happened in the universe. I’ve since inherited the collection and added to it so that I now have over 100 EU novels. I can no longer acknowledge the existence of Disney Star Wars, this is my Star Wars universe.
So good you came back to them after being gone so long
Oh, the EU will never go away for me. The day this channel goes belly up I'll probably commit to a full re-read.
Hey Mike, after watching a previous video a couple of years ago, I’ve been rounding up most of the EU (and new ‘canon’), and jumped in with both feet. I’ve read about 8 so far (following the Youtini Ultimate Reading Order) and having a blast. Everything you have gushed about is spot-on.
Thrawn is next up!
Might have to check these out one day after a rewatch. I never really cared for the new stuff so this might be a fun way to enjoy that universe.
A much more fun way.
@@mikesbookreviews 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I know everyone always rants about the Thrawn Trilogy, but while not as good but very close, it was the jedi Academy trilogy (which is prime mara jade) Also anyone who liked the mandolorian I would recommend the bounty hunter wars trilogy It felt like the EU version 30 years early.
I’ll keep it simple by saying that you are absolutely correct on everything with this video. My Episodes 7,8, and 9 will always be that Thrawn Trilogy.
Agreed
When I was younger I would tell people I loved Star Wars, but as I got older I realized that most people think that just means the movies, and for me it was always the rest. The setting for tabletop games, the novels, the video games, and eventually the shows too.
For sure. I remember reading the paperbacks in high school and people were blown away that there were books on it.
@@mikesbookreviews The X-wing series was the first I read of the EU novels, and I have a few of them on my TBR now that I am older and have disposable income.
When I left the theater in 2017, I left Disney Star Wars, and after a 10-year hiatus, I jumped back into the Expanded Universe. I’ve yet to find a compelling reason to come back to Disney, and with every book/comic/RPG supplement I read, the wisdom of that decision only grows.
Right. The SW folks love still lives on outside of Disney.
Should to a “talk about the eu” with Rachel from shades of orange. She has recently talked about this as well
Disney should have just started with the vong. Mark, Harrison, and Carrie were all the right age to reprise their roles and with a coming together of characters throughout the franchise, Disney could have changed any character that was only ever in books and not widely known to fit the narrative they wanted.
Funny enough I've got the series you havent read Rogue Squadron/X Wing. Along with some stand alone titles. Just read Death Troopers
Sad that star wars has become like politics, one of those things you can't talk about with friends or family with out fights breaking out. I've enjoyed The Acolyte, and found Andor to be one of the best Star Wars "things" period, but I understand there are people who those shows don't spark joy for them. They're in the star wars universe, but they feel uniquely distinct from the classic star wars movies in their tone, so liking A New Hope doesn't necessarily mean you'll like those shows. Still, when I even admit I enjoy those shows in a group of "star wars" fans, its crazy the vitrol that gets thrown my way. No I am not a disney shill, I just like what I like. I did not care for the Sequel movies, or episode 2, or 90% of The Clone Wars show, but I don't attack people who do, so its so strange how people seem to want to come to literal blows with me for expressing an enjoyment of a thing they don't like (and most of the time I find, that they didn't even actually watch, just a review of it, or the first 10 minutes of it).
All that said, when people have complained about all the new star wars stuff sucking, I have recommended they explore the expanded universe, particularly if I know they don't read it like I do. To date the response I've gotten was more vitrol for some reason, like reading makes me even more of a "disney loving nerd". Makes me quite sad. Not only is some of the post disney canon stuff fantastic, but there's so much great stuff in the pre-disney Legends era, but it really feels like a huge chunk of the "fan" base doesn't want to give anything new a try, they just want to keep watching the OT over and over, maybe even just episode 4 and 5 over and over since many feel Lucas lost his way starting with episode 6.
5:50 - Ironically a lot of the push back I get when I express liking anything from post disney star wars is that disney has tried too hard to make nuisanced and interesting villians. They tell me, star wars was at its best when evil was just evil, good was just good, and disney has watered all that down with villians like thrawn, and so on, which is ironic since while thrawn is a major villian in the disney cannon, he didn't originate there, but in the EU.
It really is sad. Almost like talking about a friend who got in with a bad crowd and you know you'll never see them again.
Picked up the Thrawn trilogy on prime after stumbling on your where to start with the EU videos a few days ago and haven’t put it down yet!
Hope they were second hand. I don't like the idea of giving Disney those publishing dollars.
Excellent!
I will never forget reading about the new Jedi order on Yavin 4 The EU did Luke Skywalker justice during those Star Wars galaxy felt fresh.
Indeed
I was confused for a second. I thought wth did the European Union have to do with this 😅😂
Ha Ha
I love the EU stuff but I genuinely really enjoy the high republic stuff. Soule is one of the best Star Wars writers out there, even including EU works.
If you don't like Mandalorian thats your loss in my opinion.
I liked the first 2 seasons. But glad you're enjoying it.
@@mikesbookreviews Did you watch Andor as well? If so, did you like it? Because Andor and Mandalorian S1 & S2 are the main things why im hesitend to ignore Disney Star Wars and not just stick to the EU.
@@flabebe2615 What about Rogue One, TCW Season 7, Rebels, The Bad Batch, Tales of The Jedi, Jedi Fallen Order, and Jedi Survivor? Are those projects also the reason why you are hesitant on ignoring Disney Star Wars and not just sticking to Legends?
@@trevturp6891 Well, yes of course you are right in most parts! I wanted to keep it short and kind of counted Rogue One as a part Andor, TCW Season 7 is part of the rest of TCW, which is like the movies both legends and canon timeline, Rebels, the bad batch, tales of the jedi and the jedi: games are all good enough and even great in some parts, but i could live without them. For me personally, i allways try to combine the best parts of both timelines because both have great and mediocre stuff, but i hate the mindset of mine that: if i want to include for example Rebels i kind of have to include the Ahsoka show, because, of course the Rebels would still be around anywhere and thats what happened. But I dont like the ahsoka show and therefore am hesitend to include rebels or even the mandalorian to an instance into my headcanon.
@@flabebe2615 TCW doesn't fit in Legends. It contradicts a lot of things that happened in Legends.
Oh, man. This takes me back to some good times! I brought Heir to the Empire home and my dad asked me what i was reading. From that point on, I got to share these books with him. I have some funny memories of trying to hide the next book so I could start reading it before he did. I usually failed. Heh. The books always ended up with my unicorn bookmark and my dad's horrid dog-ear method in a race to see who finished first. Then dad would ask, "So, when's the next one coming out?"
Oh wow that's amazing. I can only hope things like that happen with my kids someday.
I try not to use the word hate when referring to the current state of Disney SW. I'm apathetic now and YES if you love SW and Disney isn't quite your flavor definitely give expanded universe/Legends a shot you won't be sorry. Pleanty of SW EU to explore out there.
💯
Darth Bane and anything related to KOTOR is the best SW outside the Original Trilogy imo
Man I played KOTOR the game so many times ha ha
Hey there Mike, I'm curious if you have read ROGUE PLANET by Greg Bear, as I haven't seen you mention it. Since I was a big fan of his sci-fi books like Eon and Moving Mars, I was delighted to see him do a Star Wars novel. And since it's 20-something years since I read it, I can't remember the fine details, but I remember thinking it did a great job of fleshing out Anakin's character, and giving us an idea of how he could eventually fall. Plus the book had some interesting tie in to the new Jedi order stuff as well. Surprised I don't see it mentioned more? Have you read it, and if so, what did you make of it?
I do still check on the Disney canon sometimes, but the EU is so much better. I went to it about 5 years ago and found it so much better than the sequel trilogy in every conceivable way. Sometimes Disney does have some good stuff like Andor or Rogue One, but I don't think they're ever going to do anything that'll surpass the Thrawn Trilogy, Darth Bane Trilogy, or New Jedi Order.
The EU certainly wasn't perfect, but it's the god dang Sistine Chapel next to what Disney has done.
I’m still making my way through. Started from the beg and moving chronologically. Prob read 15+ SW books? Fav: republic commando, darth bane, original thrawn, darth plagus.. there a lot of these on Libby so trading for free.
Original Thrawn trilogy is still head canon for me. I haven't read a lot of other EU stuff but I loved the storyline from the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight video games, wish Kyle Katarn would make a comeback.
Same
Reading Star By Star (midway through NJO) was the first real like blown away storytelling from the EU, and from then on I was hooked. EU will always be canon in my heart.
I still think about Star by Star sometimes. I was floored reading that.
The quality of the writing just isn't there after reading bunch of "real" scifi and fantasy books. Solid quick 3-4 star reads most of them though. After Thrawn, the Corellian trilogy was probably my favorite.
Sure, SW is never going to be big time for hard SF readers.
I loved the EU novels and was so excited when Disney got it thinking they would follow the novels but they didn’t and then said they had no material to work with. I even gave them grace and let that slide but…. When they started their rhetoric and preaching their beliefs at me and started degrading their fans then that’s when I stopped
Yep. Was thrilled and thought we'd get New Jedi Order due to the actors ages. NOPE.
I started my EU journey last year and really must get back to it. I read Darth Plagueis, Millennium Falcon and Death Troopers, all of them were fantastic!
Death Troopers was an unexpected joy
I’ve been reading the expanded universe since last year and I have to say I enjoy a great deal too. I started with the old Republic and our EVEN/the Darth BANE trilogy/de Steve/annihilation/night Aaron ET, I’ve been read Shadowhunter, Lord of the Sith, all six movie time books, all five princess Leia books, the original Timothy is on throng trilogy, the Jedi Academy series, Asoka, Jedi, Kenobi, Donna, the Jedi, DP, count Dooku, shadow of the Empire, now I’m reading the new Jedi order serious. I just got finished reading vector prime I’m on book 2 as we speak. Hope to finish the entire series by next month then I will start the force fate of the Jedi. I really try to get in characters that I enjoy so, then going in chronological order. I even read all of the clone wars books as well. I’ve read quite a bit. I really enjoy the old Republic and the beginnings of the Sith/Jedi order. I haven’t read any of the Republic stuff as yet I love shadow point that was one of my favorite book so far, I have to say I watched so I’m about to watch the last episode of the alkaline watch the first two seasons of the Mandalorian, but I’m really enjoying the clone war series which is kind of cold watch. I wasn’t really into the last three movies even though I have them, for the sake of completing the Skywalker saga on film however, I enjoyed the
Awesome! I still need to go back and read Darth Bane.
Currently going back through NJO, and yeah...my heart's not quite ready to pick up Star by Star.
Man...I was in a depression. The Infinity War of the EU.
@@mikesbookreviews Yup. Emotionally matched for me only by a few other EU entries, like Sacrifice and Invincible in the books and Vindication and Legacy: War in the comics.
Great video. I love the EU. Started with Splinter when it first came out as a kid but it was pretty weak. Heir the Empire and beyond are mostly great. Some are a little slow and boring I guess. But I love the original characters. The area I have never ventured into is the NJO which I believe starts with Vector Prime. When I heard about VP and the negating of the force (Thrawn pet notwithstanding) I was pretty skeptical and saw it as maybe jumping the shark. So, I have never read those. But I hear so much good about them that maybe I will try someday.
Right. I remember reading it after RotJ realizing I wasn't getting any more movies and feeling let down. But when Heir came out I was in Borders for the release party. It was amazing.
Mara and the Solo kids might be my favorite Star Wars characters, other than the original trio, and they arent even in a movie. Now adays when I think about Star Wars its about the EU, not the movies so much
Indeed. Loved those kids.
You ARE a bad person if you like the direction Disney is going
Love the EU… absolutely agree with you., many highs and some lows but I love it all.. One cohesive storyline spanning thousands of years…
All power to those who enjoy the Disney content, but the EU (Legends) is truly great..
Awesome job btw, love talking Legends anytime..
There are dozens of us. DOZENS!
Very cool POV! Agree 100%
Hey Mike could you read/do reviews for SW books that you haven’t read before? It’d be cool seeing more SW content (some variety) instead of these “Hey check out the Expanded Universe” videos.
Hi 👋 interesting video.. happy reading to you!! 😊
Thank you! You too!
I've read a few of the Disney "canon" novels and find a lot of those are better than what they're putting out on Disney Plus. I have a long way to go with these books - especially EU - but feel I'll likely be reading more books than watching the shows.
Pretty low bar to cross, honestly. heh.
I always appreciate the love for the EU (I will never call it Legends). The Heir to the Empire trilogy still scratches the itch. Thanks Mike!
The true 7, 8, and 9.
I don’t think I have ever agreed with a subject more completely.
Right on!
Have you read light of the Jedi? I haven’t finished the high republic trilogy but that first book was surprisingly good.
Nah, I tapped out on the new canon pretty quick
Are the authors and other people that put together the EU books still getting paid for them? I heard somewhere that Disney tried to cut them out of their contractual payment agreements they had with Lucasfilm.
I'm not sure on this one.
I actually liked Hemlock in Bad Batch (hell, I prefer animated Star Wars over the movies in general).
Interesting. I loved Clone Wars.
Where should we start with the EU?
Heir to the Empire - Timothy Zahn
That would make for a great podcast... hit a chapter a week and discuss.
Maybe in the pre-TH-cam & kids days ha ha
What do you thing about the revenge of the sith novelization?I tried it and the writing style is a little.difficult for me with a lot of description.Does it get better/change later in the book?
I didn't read the novelization so I cannot say
It's sad, there's a population out there that are obsessed with how terrible Stars Wars is now.
It really is. Star Wars is about slap-fighting between haters and defenders now. It's no longer fun like it was for decades.
@@mikesbookreviews hey, at least you're keeping the magic alive by promoting the EU.
Well said, the EU's definitely still worth enjoying today. Even the current SW books being published are generally way more enjoyable than anything live action. A lot of them are on par if not better than the Legends EU, so I'd highly encourage the five remaining SW fans besides myself to check them out. The games also seem to be very well received. It's just the shows and movies, they can't seem to not sabotage themselves. Before The Acolyte, I thought it was downright impossible to mess up a story that has the Sith in it . . .
LOL @ "the five remaining fans"
Maybe I should’ve watched more of the video, but I just wanted to say that I like the thought of the EU. I’m more of a topical reader when I find something I like. So it’s okay if something isn’t canon. Atleast when it comes to certain things.
Lifes too short to read books you don't want to/don't like. Do what works for you!
I read and enjoyed the Thrawn trilogy. After that, the amount of books seems daunting. Is there a list of essential/best books to read? Or should you just read everything? I’m more referring to post Thrawn Trilogy timeline.
Sure. Check my Where you should start with the Star Wars EU" video. I give options in there.
@@mikesbookreviews Found and watched. Exactly what I was looking for! Virtually everyone who has read the legends books says they’re better than the sequels and Disney shows. I’m a huge SW fan and decided to read the better timeline. Thanks for responding!
Love the EU ❤
I turned to the EU after the sequels came out, looking for something that wasn't hot garbage. The Darth Bane Trilogy was where i started and it was great. Picked up Heir To The Empire recently as well because of your older EU video and i thought it was great too, I've really gotta continue that soon
I highly recommend it!
Never stop doing Star Wars videos. They are so interesting.
I don't think I'll ever be able to stop talking about the EU, especially when things are so bleak with the current state of the IP.
The new star wars movies dont bother me. The only movie i didnt care for was episode one. Darth maul deserved more.
Vector Prime was the biggest kick in the teeth for me to read in these books. I still won’t reread that book even when revisiting NJO.
Ha! I was legit stunned.
Star wars died in 2012
I was excited at the time, but in hindsight you are correct
There is a movement asking Disney to just stop making anything Star Wars. ❤EU
It's too late at this point. Irreparable damage.
I enjoy all Star Wars, but I’m not going to lie, the glutton of Disney content that has been coming out has left me burnt out. I feel like live action / cartoons need to go on the shelf for a few years.
I 100 percent understand that.
Yes I feel that new Star Wars is not good but Mando season 1 was great!
You think that moff Gideon was not was a bit scary?
Not particularly.
Its not even worth hate watching.
Since tha Acolyte it has been possible to watch streamers hate-watch the entire episodes for you. Did not give D+ a single minute of streaming time yet got to witness what an absolute train wreck of a production it was. My seven year old could have created a more logical story line.
Ha ha I don't do it
I wanted to like Zahn's trilogy of Thrawn, but it never worked for me. The first Dark Empire comics and Tales of the Jedi comics were great though.
Dark Empire was AWESOME
@@mikesbookreviews It became the plot of the Sequel Trilogy, though other characters filled the roles Luke and Leia played.
Been reading through the EU in release order. Definitely a fair share of duds in there, but it’s still way better than what Disney has been giving us. Legends forever!
Correct.
Mike you should start recording audio books of the sweu cause I’ve never seen any
There are a bunch of unabridged audiobooks of the EU, though many EU books still do not have one. They're even still making some for "Essential Legends" books, including the X-Wing series and others.
I've heard they're available but only in abridged versions? Weird.
Many are only abridged (such as all of NJO), but there are a lot of unabridged ones available too, including most Zahn books (except Choices of One I think), Darth Bane trilogy, most of the X-Wing series (others forthcoming) and a lot more. They’re on Audible, but often it’s possible to get them through Libby, depending on your public library.
I was motivated to read Heir to the Empire years ago, and I just finished the Legacy of the Force series a few weeks ago. I gave up on Disney Star wars after Mando season 2.
NJO was overall great, and the final few books in that series were incredible.
Really would love to hear a more in depth spoiler talk about LOTF video one day. Kylo Ren was like a very scuffed, abridged version of Darth Caedus. (I understand there was only so many hours of film vs many different books to try and do character development, but that's the superiority of the book medium over the films I suppose)
Once my kids got bored with Mando (a couple episodes into season 3) it was so satisfying to cancel Disney Plus.
I don`t care what they say, I still consider "Legends" cannon. You can`t erase the past.
I'm with you there