Jason Calacanis [All-In Podcast] Threatening to SUE Me.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2024
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📝Disclaimer:
This video is not personalized advice for the viewer.
#meetkevin #househack #JuneVegasEvent
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Quick fact check: The "page not found" portion was in reference to a company they were comparing themselves to. So in fairness, that isn't Lofty. BUT, it gets worse. Lofty FORFEITED their registration in California and their status is listed as "NOT GOOD" on the State of CA website: bizfileonline.sos.ca.gov/search/business Type in "lofty" and go down about 4 for: LOFTY AI, INC. (4169248)
Just insane... Thanks for being brave and putting this out there.... It bugs me that we can't put clarifying videos like this to stop misinformation --- when we do we get sued... We stand behind you Kevin. Keep going brother.
Break out the #dontsuemebro mugs
I feel bad for the people who have their properties on this platform. If Lofty ever gets shutdown, what do the home owners do? How will they be able to sell their homes with hundreds of other micro owners of their property attached via some kind of zombie LLC? This could turn into a nightmare.
PS: It's would be great for views if Jason sues you. Just live stream every bit of it.
Not sure if you saw what Jason did to Palmer Luckey from Anduril/Oculus: th-cam.com/video/nK0NfL2M5L4/w-d-xo.html (Time 22:02)
I don't see the problem with moving a company out of a state that doesn't want to do business with that company (or vice versa). I close down entities I no longer want as well, it's good corporate hygiene.
Kevin knows the real estate game. Kevin brings transparency and called out Jason. Don't hate the player hate the game. The fact that Jason first action reponseded to sue, obviously got caught and something dirty and being consturde to fish investors into virtual scams. Good Job Kevin protect us from the wolves from wall street!
First reaction is to threaten lawsuit 😂 that's a bad look in itself
The threat of a law suit was to scare Kevin and throw him off the scent trail.
Well that backfired.
Good thing for kevs media insurance or whatever, so his attorneys already paid for / on retainer. He laughs at legal threat and thinks.. ooo another payday 😂 makes a video, monetizes it 🤣🤑💰
Kevin knows real estate. Loyal all in pod listener, but Kevin sounds right. Market cap (equity) vs enterprise value (equity + net debt). Shares seem to be trading on enterprise value. Unless lofty is saying there's enough cash/collateral in reserve to payoff the debt upon sale? The key Q: When a property is sold, is the purchase price of the property OR the purchase price minus debt (loan on the property) paid out to "shareholders"?
Coffeezilla needs to chime in!
Jason disagrees with your definition of scam. His scams are not scams.
ahhhh
@@MeetKevincheck last weeks AIP…Jason basically bragged about bribing hostesses to get seated at restaurants…got called out by the besties. And the week before that, he was off and it was so refreshing and a much healthier and intelectual conversation
@@victorchavez3010 jcal is a little r4t.
All-in pod gonna be interesting tomorrow lol
Don’t sue me brooo
Kevin went beast mode - fu**ing love it the man's a machine
This was very entertaiming.
You the man Kevin
If the extra tokens are in escrow who gets the tokens when the debt is paid off? Are they distributed equally among buyers or do they all go to the debt payer? If they all go to the debt payer whats to stop the debt payer from dumping the tokens at the elevated price making this a pump and dump? If you're not meant to use the total supply in your calculation of the value, why does using the total supply perfectly equate to the going price of a token and why is there no "free float" number listed?
Love it…thank you Kevin. You are the real estate budda..without the belly. :)
Say what you like abiut kevin but he is thorough
So would this be good for investing if there is no loan on a property?
How about if you have a property with no loan and want to unlock the equity w/o having to do a traditional heloc or similar financing to pull cash out?
Would adding property mgmt fees be beneficial too?
There are plenty of properties on Lofty that don't have plans attached to them. About 80% of the properties actually are free and clear.
With or without a loan, you can unlock the equity. There's 617 Hyde Flats which is vacant land held free and clear. It pays 7% rental yield via seller leaseback for future sublease.
I don't understand the last question.
They aren’t offering tokens - it’s a peer to peer marketplace. Lofty isn’t selling the tokens. They’re just providing a marketplace and the method of tokenization.
I love that podcast. I listen to it immediately when it comes out
As the debt is paid down the debt tokens must turn into equity tokens, does that go to the original investor or who gets those tokens when they are turned into equity tokens?
They're all equity tokens, they're just escrowed in a Lofty wallet. There's no "conversion" happening, just a transfer of control as the balance is paid every month. Whoever pays the principal receives the tokens if they can prove they're the ones who paid it.
Don't worry, Kevin. We got your back. These Internet guys think they can just get money from regular folks and when it goes wrong it's such a fractional amount they won't take action. Thanks for looking out for us.
We literally ARE the regular folks saying how misinformed this video and the original video was all in the name of views and engagement. It's disingenuous and not in good faith. I have MeetKevin's back too, when he's right about something. But it's also OK to be wrong about something and admit it.
Isn't Kevin a internet guy?
Wasn't Chamath peddling garbage spacs? Why is this a surprise?
Jason’s mad because he thinks he’s getting Marques Brownlee’d
Wouldn’t the person paying the loan have to have tokens to show their ownership of the house? There’s 12k+ tokens but only 4500 tokens are being traded?
Don’t sue me broo hoodie on the way
liquidity and access in RE investing is good. is that not what is being offered?
That's literally only it. The incumbents don't like competition.
I've invested in properties and served as a property manager or hired them. Many of your words are very true and correct - and when you all boil it down to the basic principles the numbers just don't add up. If someone is threatening to sue you based on your observations and nothing beyond, that is some sort of short-sighted tactic in my opinion. You're free to say whatever you need to in terms of what you see outlayed and make projections. You cannot be put under that sort of litigation just for your free speech. Furthermore, what does it really say in terms of the threat mentioned in the title? A good businessperson would reach out to clarify interpretations to sustain the business, not open up your comments so you could expose them.
oooffff he's good! always liked Kev - you go dude
Let's call the SEC and ask them if it's a scam.
This is just the best! They need to respond with a full explanation rather than coming out of the corner with threats to sue. Kevin, what other companies can we do?
It's really disappointing that whoever this Jason guy is (I guess he's a VC investor in Lofty?) threatened to sue. I don't think Jerry (the CEO) would've done the same. I'm sure they're actively doing damage control now over the spread of these misinformed videos. There's also no way to Streisand Effect this, considering MeetKevin's massive audience.
Idk if you noticed it or not but #2 on the lawsuit paper was basically a cease and disist
@meetkevin You are right on this one infact I think there is a bigger issue.
Just look at the case if share price drops to half say 30, loan part is not going get reduced by same proportion
total house value will be : 30*12867 = 386K
But since debt itself is 429K that means equity is not worth $30 but negative value.
That's called a short sale. Same as for any real estate deal. It's literally exactly the same as a multi-member member-managed LLC because Lofty DID NOT INVENT ANYTHING NEW.
I only started watching them because of you
Isn’t this like arbitrage?
Like a Subject to?
This is just quality content. I love all of this. Well done, Kevin!
Kinda seems like this is just stirring up drama because this platform plays to the same type of market Kevin's house hack platform. All of these fractional ownership schemes are a problem.
Dude. I don't comment often, but your "haters" are people still butt hurt that you pivoted in 2022 January at the TOP OF THE MARKET. People just want someone to massage their feelings about their dumb financial decisions, and when they get burned from being naive and incompetent, they look to pass the blame. You aren't ALWAYS right my guy but you give great perspective and you're a transparent real dog. Keep being you brother, these scammers sweating bullets.
Jason is applying, "Win by Intimidation". Never give into that and it will fall apart. "This SCAM is different". Lol
It looks like traded value, maybe price changes based on demand? like any shit coin? Celeb value? Also looks like a portal people post. Its not his property??
The properties featured by Kevin do not belong to anyone affiliated with or working for Lofty. They're just some random (different) investors' properties.
KEVIN, LOOKING AT THIS AS A BALANCE SHEET YOUR EQUITY LOOKS RIGHT. I'D LIKE TO SEE WHAT THE INCOME STATEMENT WOULD LOOK LIKE E.G., RENTAL INCOME. I THINK BOTH OF THESE NEED TO COME TOGETHER TO VALUE THE TOKEN?
That's in the public Dropbox for each property.
If it’s not a scam they need to list circulating supply instead of total supply like you’re saying. I hope for all the investors sake that they listed total supply for marketing purposes.
I agree. The easiest way to know right now is to check the loan balance and divide that by $50 to get the number of tokens held in escrow. Another way to know is to simply check the DAO's smart contract. Take total minted tokens and subtract the tokens held in the escrow wallet (evidenced by the 2nd nonzero transaction for any given leveraged property). It's this wallet visible on Allo Explorer; it literally cannot get any more public than that: JZWAM4XIQVRAZY2A4NYRBNINDZCNQVFSJ67G23IUZ2SDDGHGXLBKF7ZLY
My comments keep getting hidden/deleted. I agree though. To do this math yourself, take the loan amount and divide it by $50, then subtract that number of tokens from the total supply.
Im a fan of both its crazy how they both are intersecting 😂😂
They appear to be selling businesses (equity+liabilities)=assets as silent partners however claiming equity gives the wrong impression. Who is liable for the debt? The LCC Partnership? That's the token holder.
Equity = assets - liability, when purchasing equity means buying asset net of liability. Equity is already counted for the liability , if someone is buying equity and liability together, they count the liability twice.
Jason should be more worried about the SEC than Meet Kevin.
Kevin - I don't understand why you are deducting the debt. The asset (house) is sitting on a land which has value, the bricks which shaped the house has a value. Based on neighbourhood, demand the market also sets a value. So even though there is a debt, the value is there. As long as the debt is paid its going to be no problem, If the debt is not paid whoever facilitated the debt will take it over. As long as they can honour the token ownership I don't see any problem. I think this is a new space and you need to change your thinking hat from "traditional bank financing" to new financing.
He's being willfully ignorant because his ego is too big for his own good, flying around on private jets funded by YOUR eyeballs and YT Ad Revenue.
@@EarlCo well you are probably right. But its so basic that I can't believe Kevin is making videos about it...
@@user-yb9dl6ok9r I can. He's monetizing eyeballs.
"Show me the incentive, I’ll show you the outcome." - Charlie Munger
@@user-yb9dl6ok9r "Show me the incentive, I’ll show you the outcome."
Charlie Munger
Definition of equity is total asset minus liabilities
So, selling equity doesn’t constitute selling just the “Asset” portion , it includes “asset-liabilities” ie including any debt outstanding to the real estate
I agree the firm is misleading investors, but I don’t think you can prove they scam because the words they use is equity, they didn’t say investors buy a token of the “asset”, they said investor buy a token of the “equity” , equity we know include liabilities.
You start by saying "equity is total assets minus liabilities." Which is true. Then you continue and say "equity we know includes liabilities." Which is the exact opposite, which isn't true. That's why what Kevin is saying is correct and also why it seems to be purposely confusing. It's a scam; unless there's info not shared. So back to Kevin saying it's either a scam, or more info needs to be given is about as fair as you can be.
@@garretthartle4509 “include liabilities” is layman term, if you insist on using mathematical formulae we can put it as:
include : +
Liabilities : -ve
Layman statement: Equity is asset include liabilities
Formula: Equity = Asset + (-liabilities)= Asset - liabilities
I am not advocating for the company, don’t get me wrong, I think the company is indeed misleading investors by playing words, but what I am trying to say is you “can’t” prove them scam either
Once the owners quitclaim or warranty deed a property to a DAO LLC, anyone who owns the DAO is a member of the LLC and legally owns the underlying asset. There's no denying that, it's public record with the county where each property is located. The members HAVE to make management decisions for the underlying asset, that's what makes each share not a security, but none of us work for the SEC so ultimately they'll have to decide on whether it's in their purview or not. There's literally zero way any of the members can rugpull or scam anyone else. What I will say is there is a way for a member to record a subsequent deed transfer without a vote and in violation of the LLC Operating Agreement. That would be for all intents and purposes akin to grand larceny. Any competent judge is going to rescind that deed in short order, and that LLC member would probably be sent to jail.
And the buyers should be aware of that. Think that’s all he’s saying. Cuz he’s had to do all this crap too.
Weakest form of title too is a quitclaim deed - not ideal
I can quitclaim the eiffel tower and record it
@@MeetKevin Exactly, anyone can commit actual fraud. So far, no one has done so, and I imagine hefty legal punishment if anyone actually tried.
@@MeetKevin I agree. I try to do warranty deed for everything unless it's purely to refinance. You'll see the warranty deeds for my properties listed at least. It's all public record and available in the public Dropbox for each property.
Good job KP
I guess to make it easier to understand it s like you buy a 53 dollar toy house from someone who has a loan on it for about 30 bucks lets say. if you then want to sell it, you will be left with 23 bucks....they probably think you won t because you sell those 'shares' and someone else has to buy it for market value at still around 50...they might base their business idea on a constant and ideal market environment.....someone please correct me if I m wrong
A cap rate of 5% is trash when I can get 5.3% just buying risk free treasuries and not have to deal with tenants, repairs, property taxes etc. All this low cap rate real-state is garbage for the idiots who do not know math. I only invest in property when cap rates are 12% or higher and if its not available...I park my money in treasuries and collect 5.3% without lifting a finger.
Thank you for keeping them accountable! Appreciate you Kevin!
I’m disappointed in Jason’s reaction. I don’t think Kevin would have a problem acknowledging he made a mistake, have Jason on his channel or vice versa to clarify and compensate somehow for an eventual mistake. That’s my opinion. I hope they resolve this at the height of their peaceful and intelligent capabilities.
People with names that start with “J” are not trustworthy in the dating world either 😮
Seems comparable to CDO’s. Mixes debt with equity like subprime with triple AAA rated loans, the big short lol
bwahhahha, Let the spice flow
Notice how they fixed the blurb on their site from "we based" to "we are based." They are clearly in damage control mode.
I frequently catch typos here and there and email Jerry and Max to let them know to fix it. I've even contributed suggested updates to some copy that read funkily or weren't sufficiently clear (prior to this video). English isn't everyone's best or first language. For me, it's my 3rd language, and yet I see way too many Americans with poor English writing skills. It is what it is, blame the structure of the public school system being funded by property taxes that were historically subject to practices such as redlining.
@@EarlCo How are you allowed to sell securities without a license?
@@Ross-tv8bh Not securities. We covered this over and over but it's a case-by-case basis and we really just need @SEC to chime in.
@@EarlCo You are compromised, i am looking into you.
@@webdesigntutz Oh so you do mean me. DO IT. I'm fully doxxable everywhere online.
Get coffeezilla on it....
Battle of the financial yt giants 😂
That’s a total scam. It’s a mortgaged property. Duh! Divide the shares by the net equity
Only net equity is available for purchase. The lender's tokens are held in an escrow wallet. This is explained further in Lofty's official response.
Threatening to sue a man with the slogan “don’t sue me bro” c’maaan
Watched your video on Lofty. It doesn’t look good. And the fact that Jason freaked out on you doesn’t make him look good.
How doe he get your phone number?
I really want them to talk about this on the podcast.
Kevin you should just buy up all those tokens and become the "owner" and make them work for you LOL
There's a max 15% for any individual/account. I suppose you could strawman accounts together that you actually control behind the scenes.
5:31 you gotta use the word “allegedly”. I think that’ll cover you from slander. 😅
Scammers got burned 🔥 Thank You Kevin for protecting us from the greedy wolves dressed in sheep clothing and masks fronts.
I don't see any scammers getting burned, because there aren't any scammers evident.
@@EarlCo gig is up, the fact you trolling meetkevin and the comments and responding. Says alot about you where you stand in all this and how it will affect your participation and $$ in this scamming entities with your support and scam on your behalf.
@@DRIFTROX I'm not trolling anyone?? I'm just responding to questions. I know exactly where I stand, and you should too. This is an attack on my business and my integrity as a co-owner of several DAO LLCs and their underlying assets. That's not hidden. There's nothing to hide. I'm fully-doxxable and all my listings at least are transparent. I don't know about any of the other owners or their listings, I can only attest to mine and the others I did full due diligence on as an experienced investor with my own portfolio of privately-held properties.
@@DRIFTROX You wanna see scam? I've lost over $90k to an actual scammer I ordered computer equipment from that I never received. THAT is a scam. This, this is nowhere near scam any more than contributing to a real estate partnership is a scam.
@EarlCo Hope your LLC is above Board. Those extra IRS agents are coming after LLCs. That was burped right out Joe Biden’s mouth months ago during a news Presser back in his budget of 2023.
This is exactly why I'm buying your courses next week, keep it real, we need facts and openness.
Dude you're in the right and he's clearly hiding things. You act like you're trying to convince the one person who won't be convinced, Jason
I listened to your first vid about this but I was driving. Could they do this legally (sec) with NFT’s not just a token? I mean I still don’t want anything to do with it either way but I believe some art and such have part ownership with an NFT.
These aren't NFTs, these tokens ARE Fungible. Non-Fungible Tokens means each token is unique so by definition, one cannot be swapped for another.
1 property token is exactly the same as another property token for a single given property.
@@EarlCo So, it should be called it a tranche. You're buying one tranche. The word token is being used to obfuscate imo.
@@jorge1170xyz As a native English speaker, that's definitely not an eighth grade word (the average literacy for Americans). In fact, it's not even an English word, it's French, and we don't do that in this country LOL
Token is a more precise word than share, because they're actual tokens cryptographically secured and verified on a decentralized public ledger, specifically Algorand.
@@jorge1170xyz GPT-4: The word "tranche" is typically considered to have a higher grade level usage, often associated with specialized fields like finance or law. It's not commonly used in everyday conversation and might be considered appropriate for high school or college-level vocabulary due to its technical nature.
As for the average reading comprehension grade level in the United States, it varies depending on the source, but it is often cited that the average American adult reads at about a 7th to 8th-grade level. This reflects the ability to understand and process texts that are written for early middle school students. This level is considered sufficient for most everyday reading but may be insufficient for more complex texts or professional materials.
Great meeting you in Scottsdale. Nice job here!
Knew this was coming, panzies
Jason has power trips. He’s been a name but he’s been flexing his clout a little more lately.
I bursted out laughing once I saw your reaction when you pulled up that they were already sued by California
Epicccc
If you want a cordial dialogue from someone you're criticizing maybe don't start with "this is a scam!!!" Otherwise, it seems like you're inviting controversy. Unless that's what you wanted...
GO KEVIN!!!! GET EM!!!! Also, you’re press, you’re stating an opinion… not really sure what they want to sue you about. For questioning their model? So if I’m standing around questioning their model to my friend, they wanna sue me? They better get a class action ready against the general public. Fuck em. You’re doing the right thing, Kevin. You’re simply calling something out and questioning it based on what you read. This Jason fella needs to take a chill pill and I’m sure he can afford to buy a whole pharmaceutical company to make him chill pills, anyway
I don't know what this Jason guy said to Kevin, but probably for libel.
The only cool guy in that group is David Sacks.
So kevins calling out grifters now???😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Kevin your the Goat Cofeezilla is got nothing on you, and you weren't even trying
Coffeezilla has way more integrity and way less ego. I love @Coffeezilla. I love MeetKevin too, and I follow both incessantly (just ask my wife or check my watch history). That said, I will waste all of my precious time calling out and correcting anyone with a meaningful number of followers if/when they say something that's incorrect or misinformed and not based on fact. As Coffeezilla also would.
It would make sense if you got dividends of the cash flow…
Ummm... you do? Daily payments of the proportional share of the NOI to be precise.
Still doesn't make sense. Equity value shouldn't include debt. Simple.
wow Jay Cal
Wonder how the SPAC business is doing
Jason who?
Funny you post this! I posted a remark on your earlier video about this company and received a hate remark right off the bat which is telling me there is something is fishy about this company….. Don’t sue me bro!!!!
the numbers would make sense if the total supply includes the tokens that the guy gets if he pays off the debt maybe thats what they mean on their webpage. total supply might include the debt portion in the future and may be different than the cirfculating supply. Its still a scam but don't think its as eggregious as you made it seem. the scam part is that the house price is inflated on an asset value basis. if the total supply goes up once he pays off the debt than its the most eggregious scam i ever seen besides enron
That doesn't make it a scam. That's clearly outlined if anyone bothered to read the listing. The house price isn't being inflated simply because someone wants to sell a share for more than they may have bought it for. In the stocks world that's simply called appreciation. Total supply is programmatically fixed unless a capital call is voted on to dilute and issue new supply. This has yet to happen for any property that I'm aware of, but it could be useful and necessary for value-add wedge deals.
I always thought Jason was kind of a whiny wiener but geez, confirmation. The way he’s handling the situation means he’s either really really immature or scamming. TBH, I don’t think it’s the later. He’s just a drama queen.
It looks as a subject TO deal. if so, you are not technically buying the debt. you just run the risk of only losing your token value just like a stock.
Thank you for understanding the structure correctly.
@@EarlCo i get it. not sure it is a good way to invest in real estate, but it's not a SCAM.
Im here
Maybe they are paying the loan off?
They aren't, not any faster than the amortization schedule. The rate is too good to accelerate.
(Edit: at 52:00 min they say exactly this **)
It’s odd hes doing this at same time with the debt. What if. Doing this to raise money to pay the debt?
We’ll just say that. Like hey I’m going to pay the debt off. This will help and then when j sell the house you get x amount based off how much you put in. Although that wouldn’t make sense cuz there’s alot more to this nvm but then.
BOOM. AT 52min they say exactly that!!!!!
They are conflating "equity" to mean "a real estate asset." They are saying buy these shares at a zillow valuation, and not in terms of debit vs equity. They SHOULD use state that these shares will be used to pay off the loan
The shares sold will NOT be used to pay off the loan in the highlighted deals, but every deal is different.
are the token pricing set by supply demand like a stock. if so, you may have an issue with libel with calling it a "scam", because it is the sellers and buyers that can make their own decision on value. no different that someone overpaying for IPO stock. "Scam" is when you are accusing someone of stealing money. You are accusing them of stealing. i'd hold you liable if on a jury for using that word unless you can prove they are stealing.
Precisely. The token values are set by supply and demand, by the MARKET itself. Some properties including the ones featured have Liquidity Pools that follow DODO's pricing regression algorithm to determine the market price.
I suppose as a majority owner of a couple properties, I could've manipulated the 💩out of the market price by playing around with the Liquidity Pool supply on either side. But I didn't, because that's unethical even if it isn't illegal. My shares are priced the way they are because the market said so. There is no price fixing here. Like you said, no different than someone overpaying for IPO stock. I could list all my outstanding shares at $50 and sell it all like hotcakes, or I could bump up the price a bit for what I'm willing to accept in exchange for those tokens, and maybe it's enough to slow the demand volume down to where I'm comfortable, and command a little bit more of a premium for my assets.
Love your work Kevin, i always call people out if they try to threaten and bully. Always bring the narcissist bullies out in the sun from the shade. They dont like to be exposed
When people buy a stock (equity) are they not also buying the debt the company has?
Their hyper-defensive reaction to Kevin's questions and critiques tells you everything
There's two reasons someone might be hyper-defensive: 1) He's actually telling the truth, or 2) He's blatantly incorrect and refuses to admit it. The question is where does the evidence of malicious actions or intent sit?
@@EarlCo threatening lawsuits when Kevin asks for a simple explanation is what I mean. A simple explanation would resolve the whole situation.
I remb when Leo Laporte shit on Jason Calicanis. 😂 Kevin - Wear your all in sweater tomorrow
That guy would make my stomach churn whenever he'd be a guest on Leo's show.
I'm not worried about you boo boo, you got this love. Not worried at all. Go get em tiger 🐅 love ❤️ 😍 💖 ❣️ 💕 💘 you boo boo!!!
All kevin taught me here is that he is super confused on how the entire lofty platform works
It is a scam because you as a shareholder pays for the loan somebody else holds.
Might as well buy a good reit stock.
I am not a US investor.
Following Kevin's video for years and This is THE BEST VIDEO YOU EVER MADE !
(P.S. just know , Joson C seems great guy, and he probably wasn't aware of all of this^ . my guess, he acted quickly when he saw his name out there.. but it will work itself out ).