@@yoanandreev9375yeah overall I know that, joke was just a little nod to the fact that opening your windows would, apparently, nullify the effects of the rear wing
I love seeing more regular cars on here! If I may suggest, a video on some "high tech" jdm cars like the z31/z32 and 3000gt would be amazing too, especially the z31 since it has such a low drag coefficient
@@DeweyWRX It's actually not that bad on the WRX, since lowering the windows reduces rear window buffeting, which means the rear wing gets better airflow.
i think the G wagon would be verry fun to do next time, let me know what you think, don't forget about the 908 long tail too thanks for your videos, they're amazing
First explanation I've ever seen on the airflow around those low mount rear wings and how they can be counterproductive if mounted too near the boot lid. Request for a aero examination of the Mercedes R171 SLK pretty please.
Great video👌🏽 But I expected a 1st Gen TT video before the final/3rd Gen due to the controversial aero that lost control of the rear at Autobahn speeds which warranted the lip spoiler in the following years🤔 That would be an interesting aero deep dive😁🙌🏽
Thank you for including downforce! The videos are very interesting, a suggestion would be to show the speed that the downforce/lift is produced at and if easy the split front to rear! (for example 3kg of downforce at the front, 5kg at the rear at 200 km/h, that would be very interesting as many cars have for example lift at the front but rear downforce or the opposite, so the total downforce/lift number doesn't tell the full story)
At first glance I thought open window would create more lift, along with more drag, but it reduces lift, at least over the roof, but increases it overall because it reduces the effectiveness of the rear wing. As the wake from the open window shifts the faster moving flow higher up, due to the unsteady wake. I think this is a classic case of vortex breakdown, the result of having too much rotational energy and not enough axial energy. This is why the wakes from the wheels is unsteady, and generally everywhere else in the car. Vortex breakdown is pretty much a von karman street in the flow field.
@@PremierAerodynamics Absolutely. Since the vorticity of the roof and open window co-rotate they would tend to merge with each other. They would also affect the axial energy, with the lower energy wake from the open window borrowing energy from the roof vorticity. This reduction in axial velocity leads to the breakdown downstream, creating the DRS effect on the wing, as the top comment correctly pointed out. Does the open window drag increase outweigh the drag reduction from the wing though?
Another comment asking for a car yaaaayyyy🎉. But I wouldn't say I'm not curious about the general shape of the aptera, these are so cool and I love that you don't just show, but explain it
Great video as usual! I would love to see a future video explaining the workflow to get to these results. Like where to get the models, how to prepare them for simulation, mesh creation, solver definitions, etc. Might be a bit boring but super useful for novices like me😅
Seeing this video made me wonder about Mazda Rx-8 which has similar design features regarding the front end and the windshield+ roof line. Would be cool to have a comparison. Thank you so much for all the content you’re providing for us that can’t simulate or understand aero flow this accurately.
The open window analysis was fascinating. At some point I’d like to find out what causes all the buffeting in my MX5 with the removable hardtop and the windows down.
Thanks for your educational videos! Please consider doing a video about a blocky 70-80's car like BMW E21 or E30, many people race those cars and don't understand a thing about their aero. For example, I've been wondering if a spoiler or a wing would be more beneficial when you get massive flow separation with steep angled rear window. In our case, rules allow 20x20cm square space over the trunk for the spoiler/wing looking from the side of the car, so the wing can't be lifted up to clean flow.
Interesting fact: the beautiful first generation shipped with a round rear and no spoiler or wing. The result was that created lift at speed and was unstable while turning. Audi instituted a recall and retrofitted small spoilers to every car after several deaths. So, not a "fun fact".
@@PremierAerodynamicsThank you. Cause I just added the carbon fiber trunk lip and wondering how it will affect the aerodynamics and do I need to add front splitter to counter the Downforce generated by trunk lip.
I understand that it's not interesting for other people, but I would really like to know how the C5 RS6 does. It's a subtle high performance Avant with not much visible aerodynamics and I can say, that it behaves nicely at 300 on the Autobahn in corners.
A general teardrop's aerodynamics is that the flow accelerates over the thicker part before decelerating over the tail. The front will experience slightly higher pressure than the back. That results in a little bit of drag, but because there is no separation, the pressure drag is kept down. There is also no vortex drag. So the main component is the skin friction drag.
@@PremierAerodynamics I admire your knowledge and respect your education in the matter so much ❤ also is skin drag in any way possible to be minimized with a normal car?
It's pretty fixed out of the factory. For cars in general, the two best ways are to try to keep the flow laminar as long as possible - that's hard for a regular car, but doable for a car built for aerodynamics. The second way is to reduce how much the flow accelerates over the car.
After a bit of hypermiling my "new" 2023 Suzuki Swift Hybrid over a very long trip, I'm extremely curious as to how its bubbly shape does aerodynamically!
One idea: car without all the windows, but a flat coverat beltline. cd is questionmark, but "A" should be reduced dramatically. Maybe cd*A is lower as well. Must be tested!
Hi thx for the video and the explanation i was thinking what the effect of a car with wingless but keeping the arm that hold the wing like gt3 rs without the wing does the arm make any benefits or negative
@@PremierAerodynamics i have many ideas, Mercedes G Class, Porsche 911 964, a bunch of 90`s JDM "dream" cars, New vs old cars (VW Golf 1 vs Golf 8), Motorbikes Suzuki Hayabusa, Aero of a Nakedbike...
@@PremierAerodynamics also maybe you can do the same sort of idea you did between the Lamborghinis. You could do the second generation Camaro ‘70-81 then the irocz which was ‘85-92 and the 4th gen which was ‘93-2002. I just think it would be cool to see the difference in aerodynamics as each lasted about 10 years showing evolution between decades aswell
""RS"" is ""short"" for ""Rennsport"" wich is german for motorsport. You can also say ""Motorsport"" in german, it is just written with a capital M and pronounced differently.
You still have a large, blunt section hitting fast moving flow, so that converts a lot of the dynamic pressure into static pressure on the engine bay and that increases drag. Syphoning off air is a much better approach for drag.
As far as this simulatuon goes the data is OKish. Yet certainly not accurate. That's something to take in mind, as people think this simulation is close to perfect. Welp it isn't. Even biggest manufacturers, F1 teams and so on with their superior software running on best hardware couples with folks that have best knowledge in the field don't rely so much on simulation. That's why wind tunnels time is so valued in F1 car decelpoment. Else they just could read all the computer data and carry on. Wind tunnels aren't as good as road testing either, with crosswinds, bumps in road etc. In F1 you can often hear teams don't undestand why things don't work, balance got wrong etc. If their experience, budget, most precise models including each screw and software can't visualise and find data on major issues - then those models have even more flaws in data and visualisation. It's a good tool to get a grasp of overal tendency and for initial prototypes, yet if data needs to be precise and indicative of true effects then it's never as simple as generating a good model and running simulations.
conclusion: open windows in audi tt = DRS
Lol
I think it's the other way around. Opening windows will lower lift and increase the downforce and the drag coefficient.
@@yoanandreev9375yeah overall I know that, joke was just a little nod to the fact that opening your windows would, apparently, nullify the effects of the rear wing
@@yoanandreev9375 I reckon it would lower lift from the roof, but also reduce the effectiveness of the rear wing, for a net loss of downforce.
F duct
0:04 RS stands for RennSport(German), which means "racing sport" :D
What about the rs in agera? Or in the 911 gt3? And what do the standalone r and s versions mean?
@@hrishikeshaggrawal Agera is not an Audi or even german.
911 GT3 RS has the same meaning.
There's no R model, except for the R8.
S is Sport...
@@Random-nf7qb and what is the r is hondas?
@@hrishikeshaggrawal ask wikipedia
@@hrishikeshaggrawal =Racing
I love seeing more regular cars on here! If I may suggest, a video on some "high tech" jdm cars like the z31/z32 and 3000gt would be amazing too, especially the z31 since it has such a low drag coefficient
Thanks for the idea!
@@PremierAerodynamics I'd be interested to see how different generations of the same car compare. Say a 2000 Corolla compared to a 2024 Corolla.
Id love to see cars that look sleek like an rx8 to see how efficient they really are with 2000s tech. Maybe pointless as most rx8s are broken...
In the US most tracks require you to have the front windows down so showing that is super interesting for us.
Wow! So you have to break them before even being allowed to race? That's insane.
@@PremierAerodynamics something like that lol. There has been a LOT of talk here lately on how much that effects our track cars.
@@DeweyWRX It's actually not that bad on the WRX, since lowering the windows reduces rear window buffeting, which means the rear wing gets better airflow.
i think the G wagon would be verry fun to do next time, let me know what you think, don't forget about the 908 long tail too
thanks for your videos, they're amazing
Thanks for the idea! We have the G wagon on the list!
@@PremierAerodynamicsAmazing, can't wait to see that
First explanation I've ever seen on the airflow around those low mount rear wings and how they can be counterproductive if mounted too near the boot lid. Request for a aero examination of the Mercedes R171 SLK pretty please.
Thanks for the idea!
Super glad to see more average cars being done on the channel
More to come!
Great video👌🏽
But I expected a 1st Gen TT video before the final/3rd Gen due to the controversial aero that lost control of the rear at Autobahn speeds which warranted the lip spoiler in the following years🤔
That would be an interesting aero deep dive😁🙌🏽
Thanks for the idea!
You should do a video comparing the first gen GT86 to the second gen GR86. I think that’s be a pretty cool vid
Thanks for the idea! We have the BRZ coming out this week!
Thank you for including downforce! The videos are very interesting, a suggestion would be to show the speed that the downforce/lift is produced at and if easy the split front to rear! (for example 3kg of downforce at the front, 5kg at the rear at 200 km/h, that would be very interesting as many cars have for example lift at the front but rear downforce or the opposite, so the total downforce/lift number doesn't tell the full story)
Thanks for the tip!
Could you do one for the Toyota GR86, please? I am curious to see where I can improve and save money from for my car. Thank you.
Thanks for the idea! We have the Subaru BRZ coming out this week!
Would love to see how the Porsche 944 does! Seems like a very efficient design, but what will be the effect of the pop-ups up??
Thanks for the idea!
At first glance I thought open window would create more lift, along with more drag, but it reduces lift, at least over the roof, but increases it overall because it reduces the effectiveness of the rear wing. As the wake from the open window shifts the faster moving flow higher up, due to the unsteady wake. I think this is a classic case of vortex breakdown, the result of having too much rotational energy and not enough axial energy. This is why the wakes from the wheels is unsteady, and generally everywhere else in the car. Vortex breakdown is pretty much a von karman street in the flow field.
Those are good points. I also think that perhaps the lower pressure over the roof and rear window pulls the wake from the open window over it.
@@PremierAerodynamics Absolutely. Since the vorticity of the roof and open window co-rotate they would tend to merge with each other. They would also affect the axial energy, with the lower energy wake from the open window borrowing energy from the roof vorticity. This reduction in axial velocity leads to the breakdown downstream, creating the DRS effect on the wing, as the top comment correctly pointed out. Does the open window drag increase outweigh the drag reduction from the wing though?
Another comment asking for a car yaaaayyyy🎉. But I wouldn't say I'm not curious about the general shape of the aptera, these are so cool and I love that you don't just show, but explain it
Thanks for the idea! The Aptera is on the list!
Great video as usual! I would love to see a future video explaining the workflow to get to these results. Like where to get the models, how to prepare them for simulation, mesh creation, solver definitions, etc. Might be a bit boring but super useful for novices like me😅
Thanks for the idea!
Seeing this video made me wonder about Mazda Rx-8 which has similar design features regarding the front end and the windshield+ roof line. Would be cool to have a comparison. Thank you so much for all the content you’re providing for us that can’t simulate or understand aero flow this accurately.
Thanks for the idea!
The open window analysis was fascinating. At some point I’d like to find out what causes all the buffeting in my MX5 with the removable hardtop and the windows down.
Thanks for the idea!
It's always interesting to see these videos. Any plans on analyzing the Cyber truck? Thanks!
Yep, we have it on the list for the future.
I like the details on how you would make the car better and how they made the car better. Different viewpoints are great to learn from.
Thanks!
I AM GLAD that i accedently found this channel . still waiting for speed tail
Thanks for the idea! We have it on the list!
Now I wonder what the aerodynamics are like. Ford Focus Rs Mk3
Thanks for the idea!
Was the floor of the car properly modelled?
Some of it was. The front underbody is pretty good. The diffuser is pretty good.
Suggestion: VW XL1
also I'd like to see the demise of baked-in subs
Thanks for the ideas!
Thanks for your educational videos! Please consider doing a video about a blocky 70-80's car like BMW E21 or E30, many people race those cars and don't understand a thing about their aero.
For example, I've been wondering if a spoiler or a wing would be more beneficial when you get massive flow separation with steep angled rear window. In our case, rules allow 20x20cm square space over the trunk for the spoiler/wing looking from the side of the car, so the wing can't be lifted up to clean flow.
Thanks for the idea!
So much drag it might win at drag racing.
Lol
now i am very curious how me 2007 Subaru Forester does aerodynamically
Thanks for the idea!
Where do you get 3d models like this one and ones like it?
Interesting fact: the beautiful first generation shipped with a round rear and no spoiler or wing. The result was that created lift at speed and was unstable while turning. Audi instituted a recall and retrofitted small spoilers to every car after several deaths. So, not a "fun fact".
I guess the original car wasn't designed with aero in mind, but more looks.
What kind of sandwiches do you eat mate???
Ones that everyone tries to steal from me, because they're so good.
Can you do one for I4 M50
Thanks for the idea!
@@PremierAerodynamicsThank you. Cause I just added the carbon fiber trunk lip and wondering how it will affect the aerodynamics and do I need to add front splitter to counter the Downforce generated by trunk lip.
And perhaps explain which spoiler and/or splitter style would benefit the car the most. Thank you very much.
Can you do the 2012 Mazda 2? It is extremely stable in crosswinds at high speed for such light car
Thanks for the idea!
Love those analysises.
Suggestion for another Video: Hyundai i30N Fastback 😁
Thanks for the idea!
Can you please do an F1 car next time? I really want to know your opinion.
There is no real car models, only hypotheticals.
Thanks for the idea! We will see if we can find a good model.
Hey, what about window deflectors, how do they affect airflow with windows closed and open?
Thanks for the idea!
I understand that it's not interesting for other people, but I would really like to know how the C5 RS6 does. It's a subtle high performance Avant with not much visible aerodynamics and I can say, that it behaves nicely at 300 on the Autobahn in corners.
Thanks for the idea!
Your videos make me wonder what an 08 STI would look like. I'd love to see if your conclusions line up with my quite amature open foam runs.
Thanks for the idea! We'll put it on the list.
A pretty out there thing you can't you could test would be the SAAB 900, I've heard that the 900 had good aerodynamics.
Thanks for the idea!
It would be interesting to see how the flow in the wake changes depending on the versions of the same car e.g. between a sedan and a station wagon
Thanks for the idea! We have some ideas we want to test with respect to that.
@@PremierAerodynamics Great! Can't wait to see the videos👍
can you do the Dacia Duster 2011 1st gen and give some tips for mods too improve it?
Thanks for the idea!
the Nilu27 could be interesting due to the open engine and exhaust configuration and the lack of front intakes
Thanks for the idea!
The aptera is a literal tear drop shape, I would love to know how that looks on an aerodynamic map
A general teardrop's aerodynamics is that the flow accelerates over the thicker part before decelerating over the tail. The front will experience slightly higher pressure than the back. That results in a little bit of drag, but because there is no separation, the pressure drag is kept down.
There is also no vortex drag. So the main component is the skin friction drag.
@@PremierAerodynamics I admire your knowledge and respect your education in the matter so much ❤ also is skin drag in any way possible to be minimized with a normal car?
It's pretty fixed out of the factory.
For cars in general, the two best ways are to try to keep the flow laminar as long as possible - that's hard for a regular car, but doable for a car built for aerodynamics. The second way is to reduce how much the flow accelerates over the car.
Would love to see the Boxster and Cayman in comparison!
That's a great idea! I really like the Cayman.
This is a superb video!!!! Thank you!!!!
Thank you! Happy you liked it!
Would newer models be much of an improvement over the Mk1 TT? Would you expect the flow characteristics to be similar?
We have them on the to do list!
@@PremierAerodynamics looking forward to that one as I’ll be building a mk1 TT race car soon
how is the aerodynamics affected if you drive with folded and unfolded wing mirrors on the highway at 130kmh and at different speeds?
Thanks for the idea! We'll look into it!
After a bit of hypermiling my "new" 2023 Suzuki Swift Hybrid over a very long trip, I'm extremely curious as to how its bubbly shape does aerodynamically!
Thanks for the idea!
Where can I find 3D models of cars to make my own CFD simulations?
Please do a CFD simulation of the Toyota Belta
Thanks for the idea!
Try the R35 please! Would love to see how it does.
Thanks for the idea! We have it on the list!
Im curious of the aerodynamics of the fairing on my 20 Harley Sport Glide. The aero has a tendency to act strange
Thanks for the idea!
Can you do one for the 2014 hatchback beetle (2.0tsi)
Thanks for the idea!
One idea: car without all the windows, but a flat coverat beltline. cd is questionmark, but "A" should be reduced dramatically. Maybe cd*A is lower as well. Must be tested!
Thanks for the idea!
Hi thx for the video and the explanation i was thinking what the effect of a car with wingless but keeping the arm that hold the wing like gt3 rs without the wing does the arm make any benefits or negative
Thanks for the idea! It likely just helps stabilize the flow. But, there would be little change to the lift or drag, generally.
Could you do the e85?
Thanks for the idea!
Driving a TTRS over 250km/h is scary, it changes lanes by it self
And Tesla says that they were the first to have autopilot.
How about doing the VW Scirocco, and maybe compare it to a Golf GTI
Thanks for the ideas!
Do a 2015 RCZ next ?🙏
Thanks for the idea! The RCZ is cool.
Can you make one of the Supra MK5?
Thanks for the idea!
@@PremierAerodynamics i have many ideas, Mercedes G Class, Porsche 911 964, a bunch of 90`s JDM "dream" cars, New vs old cars (VW Golf 1 vs Golf 8), Motorbikes Suzuki Hayabusa, Aero of a Nakedbike...
Can you do a irocz Camaro?
Thanks for the idea! We'll put it on the list!
@@PremierAerodynamics also maybe you can do the same sort of idea you did between the Lamborghinis. You could do the second generation Camaro ‘70-81 then the irocz which was ‘85-92 and the 4th gen which was ‘93-2002. I just think it would be cool to see the difference in aerodynamics as each lasted about 10 years showing evolution between decades aswell
I wounder if aerodynamics of Second gen Prius moving at 650 kph could be surprising
I feel like you're trying to tell me something...but I can't figure it out. :D
@@PremierAerodynamics yeah you're right. I want you to analyse aerodynamics of second gen Prius moving at 650 kph
Could you test the myth that the Porsche 928 is more aerodynamic driving backwards?
Thanks for the idea! We'll put it on the list!
Can you do a research on Mazda RX8 1 gen?
Thanks for the idea!
@@PremierAerodynamics thank you for your work :)
please do the 370Z
Thanks for the idea! We have it on the list!
""RS"" is ""short"" for ""Rennsport"" wich is german for motorsport. You can also say ""Motorsport"" in german, it is just written with a capital M and pronounced differently.
Wow, hence the M for BMW's M series.
@@PremierAerodynamics Yes!
Well, but you don't have the inlets and outlets around the front section, do you? Is it reasonable to comment on the nose aerodynamics then?
You still have a large, blunt section hitting fast moving flow, so that converts a lot of the dynamic pressure into static pressure on the engine bay and that increases drag. Syphoning off air is a much better approach for drag.
So basically: Audi doesn't know how to make a car be efficient.
I'm sure the aerodynamicists know, but the stylists have probably bound, gagged, and put them in the closet so they can't alter the design.
a 5.6kg sandwich??? are you american?
If that isn't a reason to become American, I don't know what is!
@@PremierAerodynamics bro what 😂
5.6kg sandwich.
You know it!
@@PremierAerodynamics I know you are wondering the same thing I am. How aerodynamic will it be? 😂
As far as this simulatuon goes the data is OKish. Yet certainly not accurate. That's something to take in mind, as people think this simulation is close to perfect. Welp it isn't.
Even biggest manufacturers, F1 teams and so on with their superior software running on best hardware couples with folks that have best knowledge in the field don't rely so much on simulation. That's why wind tunnels time is so valued in F1 car decelpoment. Else they just could read all the computer data and carry on. Wind tunnels aren't as good as road testing either, with crosswinds, bumps in road etc. In F1 you can often hear teams don't undestand why things don't work, balance got wrong etc. If their experience, budget, most precise models including each screw and software can't visualise and find data on major issues - then those models have even more flaws in data and visualisation.
It's a good tool to get a grasp of overal tendency and for initial prototypes, yet if data needs to be precise and indicative of true effects then it's never as simple as generating a good model and running simulations.
Thanks for the input! And actually some OEMs rely solely on CFD because they have it certified, so they're allowed to.