They wouldn't even honor my MSRP Maverick i ordered on the first allocation slots instead they wanted to charge me a "market adjustment" of 8k. Fuck Ford until they get their dealers in check i will never buy another Ford.
I looked about a year ago into getting one and they wanted an extra $10K. I said no things, and left. I have not checked back to see if they are still doing that, and I do not have any plans to do so. I did the same thing with Kia and the EV6. Towards the end of last year they wanted an extra $6000. I said nope, and left. They contacted me after the first of the year letting me know that they no longer have the market adjustment on them. I told them sorry, they lost me as a customer.
@@jiminauburn5073 Good for you! I'm sure there are many others with similar experiences. You did exactly as I would. The dealerships are gonna go bankrupt due to their own greed and will be turned into EV charging rest stops with food and shopping :D
Dealerships shot themselves in the foot when they jacked up the price and refused to bargain with buyers. I’ll never buy from a Ford dealership again because of this.
Here's the problem. I went to Ford's site it says $49,995...but then when you actually "search inventory near me", there is nothing under $88,000. That is burning trust.
That’s exactly what’s happening to me. Ford dealerships are the problem for the company. They are still doing business like old times. We want tesla like experience
I reserved the F150 Lightning two years ago. I reserved a Pro model for $39k. After a year and a half they finally let me convert my reservation to an order. But, they changed my reservation to an XLT then increased the cost of the XLT to 59k. That's a 20 K difference and they meant instead of being my second car it would have to be my primary. However, to be my primary it would need more than 230 miles range, given that it didn't support NACS charging back then. To increase the range from 230 to 320 miles, which would make it work as a primary, it would cost $18,500 more. So my 39k truck was now almost 80k to be useful. I gave up at that point.
Yep me too. I reserved one on the reveal day. They said $39k for 230 miles range 4x4 truck. In reality it would cost much more. I never would have reserved a $60k truck. Classis bait and switch.
Yep, same thing happened to me except it was just Lariat or Platinum. No way I will spend that much on a truck. My first vehicle was a Ford ... my last will not be if I can help it.
The largest electric grid operator in the US has issued a level one emergency alert - raising the specter of its 65 million customers facing potential blackouts as heatwave forces air conditioner surge. Now add a few million battery powered vehicles that need to be charged and it's lights out. The power grid is not ready for a surge of large vehicle batteries in need of charging.
On the Pro model, they raised the price by $20K, and now they are offering you $10K off. I'm not falling for it. I'm sure Ford dealers have already added an extra $10K worth of markups and fees to every Lightning upon hearing this news.
It is a pricing problem and early adopters who had sufficient money to buy an EV have cycled through the market. Inflation has removed the ability for those who would have had to stretch to buy one. To have any success any EV needs to be near to or less than 40k after credits and closer to 30k. Mach E is far from that as are other EVs not selling well. It will be interesting to see if GM can supply the Equinox and Blazer sufficiently to have a sales issue. Based on their action with the Lyriq I suspect they will stall as long as they can
Agreed. The low hanging fruit has been gathered. Absolutely the prices need to be low to saturate the rest of the market. But that must be a rough position if you are losing 20k on every car. Wow. We have a whole nation of consumers that have been give relatively easy credit for 40 years and everyone is maxed out now and its not that easy to come up with 30k let alone 40k and higher.
Ford dealers don't want to sell EVs. This is the problem with legacy auto in general. I went to a BMW dealer to buy an I4 and he said go to Tesla. They are toast unless they can convert their salespeople.
Actually to me if the salesman did say that, here soon we shall lose one or two of the legacy automakers and to be honest thst may be best for the industry IMO. Get on board BEV's or you shall cease to exist.
Thw BMW salesman gave you a really good advice. BMW can’t build electronics. If you see a car where turn signals don’t work, most if the times it’s a BMW.
We ordered a mach-e last summer(2022), then waited until December when the dealership still couldn't give us a delivery date we then requested our deposit be refunded as the mach-e standard edition became the worst car (fewer features) yet became more expensive. In 2023 this year we instead ordered a Model Y.
We test drove the Mach-e and Tesla last year. Mach-e felt like a better car all around. Spoke with the ford salesman on the phone about purchasing after work. Immediately ordered the model y online. Couldn’t handle the sleazy salesman vibes. Then had a poor ordering and delivery experience with Tesla. Then 3 trips to the dealer to fix the basic Tesla issues. Just can’t win. Just kidding. Our charging options are way better.
Had a similar experience except everything with my Model Y went 100% smoothly. No issues at delivery or with fit n finish. I own a Maverick though and that was such a horrible buying experience because #dealersleezebags
It was the price increases by Ford, dealers price above MSRP, the lower real life range and not offering the PRO extended range to retail buyers. It was a mistake for Ford to retrofit the ICE model to EV, it should have been redesigned at the onset. Those are just of a few reasons why I cancelled my reservation.
I know there were absolutely some dealers marking up the price of the Lightning. I only know of maybe 6 Ford Dealers within a couple hours of me. Nearly all of them I called to get on the list last summer. Only one of those 6 had a Lightning they were marking up. I don't know if they were doing that just simply because it was on the lot.. ???.. but to order one the build out and final sale they each said would be msrp plus tax and hauling fee. Of course msrp went up $20k.... lol! Ford pretended to come down on dealers but then jacked the price up themselves!! Lol! I laugh but only because I walked!!.. fu I say ;)
I can only speak for myself but imo last year all the excitement (including my own) was that at the time when crunching the numbers on owning an EV in nearly all scenarios you could justify the investment. Buy gas or save from buying gas at all.. this was the price of the Lightning at the time.. I seen a ROI within 8 years (or whatever I had figured in my scenario). It was a practical investment from a normal working class American. After they upped the price 5 times on us they very quickly turned owning a Lightning from a useful and practical purchase or a "need" into a "want" only. And I don't want a Lightning that bad to have my ROI go from 8 years to 15.. .. nope ... you can keep it
In my experience, it was the mark up by the dealer, 15000 mark up and more of the regular "hidden" costs 200 here 600 there. I walked away. I want the cybertruck anyways.
This problem is not exclusively for EV’s . Inventory for all trucks is going up, used vehicle prices are dropping as is demand. I’ll wait for more competition in the truck market and/or some upgrades to batteries. 600km is my minimum for a truck that’s close to 100k Cdn. Last point, dealers hurt themselves with those ridiculous markups during scarcity.
Ford built VERY expensive vehicles. When announced the starting price was supposed to be $40K (usd), but built $80-90K. There's a big difference between $40K and $90K! The reservations meant nothing, you only needed $100 to reserve a vehicle.
5:43 Ok I agree with this somewhat with the added bonus that a normal person can not get a PRO truck! Not even if you are a business with a 1 truck need. It's a fleet vehicle that requires multiple trucks ordered at the same time! That made me angry. Thankfully I didn't have to cancel my pre-order to get my money back. I never ordered anything when my ticket was pulled.
You nailed it, Ford did a bait and switch on the Pro, they only want to sell them to fleet buyers. I sold my Lariat because of poor range [150 miles at interstate speeds] and cancelled my Pro reservation....
I was actually excited when Ford was bringing out EVs. I couldn't believe they used the Mustang name plate, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt, but a FOUR door Mustang? Hell no. I've seen some mockups of some two doors that look sharp, but it sure seem like their focus groups must have been imbibing or something. I like the truck, I just think it's too expensive for most.
I hate it. But not for the sake of the Mustang. But for the Mach E. It will never be its own thing. Same thing with the Bronco Sport. Let these vehicles build up their own reputation and nameplates. It's also lazy. I think say the Corolla Cross kinda works because it has basically the same interior as a Corolla and the Corolla comes in several body styles. But in general I hate when automakers share a name like this.
I was the 2nd on the list last summer for a Lightning at our local Ford dealer in small town Wisconsin. Just a few weeks later they had 30 on the list. Obviously they couldn't get a Lightning to save their lives. Today they have 2 Lightnings. They called me right after my build out came in... . .. still no biters
When they were first introduced the price of the F150 Lightning was a bargain. Then Ford increased the price 5 times to 40% over the introduction price. Price has an effect on demand. They should have introduced it at a really high price, worked out the bugs of manufacture and figured out how to do it for much less, and then reduce the price to match demand to production. My MBA says that Ford doesn't know how to do business.
If I order something at its advertised price, and before I receive it, that price goes up multiple times and the seller does honour the original price I ordered at, well, that just pisses me off and I wouldn’t want to deal with that company again.
Great insights! I think Ford has now "Osborned" its electric vehicles by adopting the Tesla charging standard, but having it available with an adapter next year, and natively in 2025. I'm sure a large percentage of potential buyers will wait until 2025 when the NACS, Tesla, port is directly supported.
@@JP-sw5ho Tesla is opening up for the ford's with CSS , they just need an adapter or be lucky to find a magic dock. Current F-150 have slow charging but I don't think it will go away when they switch to nacs
@@JP-sw5hoCS isn’t the problem - after all it’s all we get here in Europe and it works fine, ok it’s CCS2 not CCS1 that you get in the USA. The problem for CCS in the USA is EA et al who had to comply with fines and punishment for dieselgate and they tried to do that as cheaply as possible so didn’t factor in reliability, cold weather performance being different in the North America to Europe and most of all they believed the equipment manufacturers that their equipment would be so reliable that they could sit back as maintenance wouldn’t be required for a couple of years. Here in Europe we have gone through the problem of lots of chargers being down and not repaired in a timely manner for the most part and the CPO’s have learned they need reliable equipment and the technicians to go out and fix them 24/7/365 but EA and it’s CcS competitors State-side still haven’t woken up to that. These days it is becoming rarer and rarer to find chargers out of action for months on end or even weeks on end - in fact most of the problems with chargers now seem to be with those operated by the Oil Giants who are trying to greenwash their products by setting up chargers on filling station forecourts then not maintaining them - the nearest oil major owned charger on a garage forecourt to me has been out of order for 4 months - it also happens to be the only 350kW charger but as my EV only charges at 50kW that’s less of an issue than it being out of action for so long.
$10k discount not showing up yet. Even discounted they’re expensive. Dealers are a pain to deal with. They lard up the trucks with expensive unwanted options.Charging network experience is spotty till they get on the Tesla network. All this means no demand.
I leased my Mache from Ford Direct and give about 30 rides per week to people in it. The model will sell, people love it and the price is pretty good. The newer batteries and the Tesla charging network will really help. The population is slow to catch on. The riders that get in my car love it. All of them. Eventually sales will ramp.
Sam, in the title you mentioned the word dealer. There’s your problem. Ford needs to ditch them asap. I for one detest them. Always hated the whole haggle thing or ‘let me talk to the manager’. Ugh. What utter tosh. Dealers will kill some of these companies.
I don't know about inventories, but I just checked and the two cheaper options, the Pro and XLT are sold out, according to Ford's Website. So it looks like the Lightning *starts* at $70k, before rebates....
Ford - "We are going to stop making cheap vehicles; we are concentrating on SUVs and trucks where the big profits are" General Public "The economy has taken a nosedive - we can only afford cheap stuff" Ford - "Damn! We should have seen that coming"
I never understood why they basically completely abandoned the passenger car market. Other than the Mustang, I think everything is a SUV or Truck. I had a 2016 Fusion and liked it. Just went on vacation and my rental car was a Fusion, and enjoyed driving it again.
No mention of the EVlephant in the room, Cybertruck! First just rolled off the production line. People want to see what it's like, actual pricing and range etc. And when it comes to saloon EVs, they may be waiting for the Highland Model 3 and even Y.
this is the reason, i pass 2 every day at my local dealer, they have been moving both around the lot for the last 3 months. I looked it up online, they are well over 85k with a 6k dealer mark up
Real-estate agents do similar to get potential buyers in the door during an open inspection. They advertise a property way below market price and it ends up selling around market price.
Check my local Ford Dealership today. Haven't lowered the MSRP and still have a $10k market adjustment. So it is $20k over priced.They are not going to sell many.
I think the problems are: Initial price US power grid weaknesses Limited range carrying a load Dependency on China Lack of charging locations Charging time Battery replacement cost at end-of life Etc. Etc.
So I put down the deposit for both a Cybertruck and an F150 Lightning. A few months ago Ford sent me back my $100 with no explanation. I was going to buy whichever was first. Now it is going to be Tesla.
Good point(s) as always,Viking! 😎🖖 Here's my advice to non-Tesla OEMs (to hopefully survive): TODAY, AND AS FAST AS YOU CAN GET A COHESIVE ANNOUNCEMENT OUT (across social and mainstream media) ... Offer COMPLIMENTARY EV charger installation at home, AND a NACS adapter shipped to new customers free of charge as soon as supplies become available and technicians can be arranged. Also, offer existing EV owners a free NACS adapter (to build customer LOYALTY). A huge expense? Yes. A tactic that could get cars off the lots and WIN BADLY NEEDED MARKET SHARE (before it's too late). Absolutely!😉 I'm a Tesla investor, but I am literally rooting for the other OEMS to survive to help all of humanity have a better future because Tesla, as amazing as the team is, just isn't capable of providing all of the EVs needed now or in the near future. So, c'mon guys... get with it!😉
I think that the problem is the dealership model. They see EVs as the end of the service department and most of them make their profit there. If you remove that where are you? Nearly 6 years ago I bought a Volt and the dealer did not really want to sell it to me... I had to wait for a Tuesday evening at 8pm for the used car guy to make the contract so that I could get one. (apparently GM stopped making them due to lack of demand) At the time, the waitlist for them was quasi infinite! what a joke. P.S: That dealer is now closed today!
I also own a Volt. Love it. Just to clarify, GM killed it, not because of demand, but because of politics. They decided to go “all in” on BEVs and spent the $ for the next Gen on the Bolt instead. Decisions like that from the CEOs, trying appease their politician buddies and Wall St are going to drive the US car business of the cliff in 4-6 years. Demand for EVs is no where near what the product planners are being told they have to build towards. I even heard that directly from a colleague who was an engineer at GM until recently.
@robertaugustine5350 I love my Volt also but would have bought a model Y in no time flat if it had been available at todays price. The problem with the legacy OEMs is that they have sunk cost bias and that is what is slowing things down for them and that will likely be fatal in less a little as 5 years. EVs are progressing at about 40% every year so in 5 years the market in the USA will be about 40% EV and worldwide 60% or so. ICE profit will be negative by then... if we have a tough economic fall, as predicted, it will just go faster.
Viking, look at the F-150 "bulkhead" at 7:23 min, you can see the same 2 rectangle opening as for the cybertruck. What are they for ? Anyone knows ? Cybertruck fans tought it could be for ventilating the rear bed for camping mode.
Can't wait to turn these "Market conditions" markups against them, I'd waste half a day pretending I'm interested and tell them I need whatever their makeup was off MSRP... For "market conditions"
Bring back cars like the Chevy Volt, a brilliant car that never was promoted the way it should have been. But it was another case of GM losing lots of dollars on every one sold.
As a used sales manager at a Ford dealership I’ve never seen a newer model get traded back in as the EV lightning and Mach E’s. Customers like the vehicles, but can’t live with the compromises of full EV.
I wish you and your adorable family the best, hoping to hear your beloved wife is out of the woods for once and for all. Malignancies are not easy, and lots have to be done to them if they are in an advanced stage. God bless you!!!!!
I'm a electrician working at a Ford Blue Oval SK Battery Plant in Glendale Kentucky USA now. These 2 buildings are over 8 million SQ feet. It pays good but long hours.$240,000 year pay package for IBEW Union Electrician.
@@shoersa it's a package of earning, incentives, health care and retirement. I overstated it by $20k because of healthcare contributions. We are the low bidder on the project and bring it under cost for Ford and a profit for Lighthouse Electric. This is a $5.9 billion project that will last for 3 years more.
@@shoersa Are you feeling poor, sad, or jealous? Join a Union, Live a better life. This job pays $600 a week in retirement. Join a Union Live A Better Life.
as a Mach-E owner and a former F-150 Lightning reservation holder, the problem is pretty obvious to me - the dealers. I still cannot get work done on my Mach-E unless I go back to my original dealer, which if i knew this would’ve been an issue, I wouldn’t have bought it there at the time. Our Lightning reservation was with the same dealer (before we knew about the service issue) and when we got the email back in Dec 2021 saying they were going to add $30k to the config’s price for “market demand”, we promptly canceled our pre-order and switched over to a R1T instead (delivered in Feb of this year). Ford has to get out of the dealership model or they will go down in flames. Dealers are not their friends and in most cases are actively working against Ford and their customers, IMO.
I live in Los Angeles , two issues , charging stations are either busy or broken , and huge dealer markups. They have no one to blame but themselves. Another issue for myself is that it’s not as tall as a SUV and feels more like a sedan , I banged my head twice getting into one.
The price is way to high I agree. The UAW is looking for a strike target this fall not sure which company it will be, but generally the old three manufactures build inventory ahead of the contract. 🤔
What nobody every talks about is the depreciation on the batteries. The used market for EV will flop because buying a used EV means also buying a new battery for thousands of dollars. For an internal combustion vehicle, the motor will last the life of the vehicle in most cases. Not so for the battery in an EV.
I’m in British Columbia and the F150 Lightning goes from $95k CAD for XLT and $125k CAD for Lariat. An equivalent ICE F150 is $30-$40k less, and can actually tow a trailer. If you live in a city and don’t want to go hunting or fishing or do anything a normal truck does then you might buy a Lightning. Ford can keep their Lightings on the lot as that is where they are accumulating
$90kCAD differential will buy over a lifetime of gasoline for a new owner, and that's the pure economics. If carbon efficiency and atmospheric impact was even a real driving factor in this or any other post 2015 EV then it would be ultralight skin/frame, smaller, more cargo ratio, less posh, fewer energy draining gadgets and heavy upholstery. EVs are just New Boss same as the Old Boss.
The other major issue is INTEREST RATES. The interest rates when these cars/trucks took preorders were less than 3%. Now they are around 7%. That's a huge difference.
Viking, I think everyone is overlooking the fact that EVs are purchased using discretionary funds. The problem is that our discretionary funds are being wiped out by inflation. All those funds are going to buy food and staples. A new shiny EV is going to have to wait until the price of everything else comes back down.
Prices overall aren't coming down. That would be deflation. The inflation rate is down, yes, but that just means prices aren't going up as much as last year. The only exception is products that were affected by a significant supply constraint. Egg prices, for example, skyrocketed due to an avian flu outbreak. After that was resolved and supply returned to normal, prices came down. That is not happening with most commodities.
@@brownro214 yes, I agree. However, I think the Fed is still going to bump the index up another 25 basis points. It will be a while before prices come down to a level where people feel comfortable using their “ Discretionary” Funds. We shall see.
In my country you only see msrp or less at dealers. Mark up just isn't seen unless it's hidden in an already marked up price. Online or dealership, the price is the same.
My reservation went from $39.9k to $59.9 k and that does not account for dealers markup. So I canceled like many. GM should pay attention to this and not alienate future customers.
The problem is with dealerships. They control actual selling prices. Their argument for protectionism is that they help the consumer save money. So, start that. I got my Ford Focus at 25% below msrp with dealership discounts, but that was then.
Umm, getting a great deal on a low-cost, compact POS Focus is NOT the FLEX you think it is, bud. Dealerships let you have that deal... They NEVER make $$$ on them cheap small cars. so they give them away just to add extra numbers on their monthly tally board. Trucks & SUVS is what they focus on to "Hold the Gross" on car sales
@creolerican Ironically, I could have gotten the same $6k discount on the Flex. The percentage was less because the msrp was higher. It was a POS - was on a rollback to the dealership within 30 days of driving off the lot.
@@foxtrotwolf6081 I hear ya.. my brother-in-law was the finance mgr at a very large Mercedes dealership in So Cal and he would hook me up and sell me the E-Class 6-month-old service loaners at drastic discounts. I lost that hook-up now that I drive an EV., but it's worth not spending money on GAS and Oil changes and brakes
I was a day-one register for the F150 L. My expected cost was $77,000. 20 months later, I got a note saying I could actually order. The cost now? $132,000. Eff you, Ford.
Mutiny - The dealerships are sc**wing the pooch knowing there's no future for them. Would-be buyers, learning that others have ordered one online only to faced with $10k-$30k dealer mark-ups and discovering their capabilities are lacking and performance poor because they are simply legacy pickups built on legacy assembly lines, stuffed with batteries, motors, and third-party crappy software, all of which are obsolete, have decided to purchase Rivian or wait for Cyber. Simply put, all the incumbent"s EVs are makeshift cobbled together until they can reThink from the bottom up, are wheels up, a mobile software platform, Smart car, laptop on wheels, using ALL the current technologies as was Tesla able to do, just as smartphones were able to do and look what happened to Blackberry.
I put down the deposit and waited 7 months. When it was time to order, Ford told me, as an individual, I was not allowed to order the work truck or the XLT model. I had to buy a premium model for approximately $70,000. I asked for and received my deposit back from the dealer.
Executives (and dealerships) are their own downfall and will always create their own ecomomic demise. That's capitalism, no boom and inflation without a bust. And this one is seeing an oversupply and under delivery of projected profits. And the executives will blame EVs for the recession they created.
Did a quick 3 nearest dealer check on Lightnings. Cheapest listed at $76K. Then we have 80, 83, 84, 88, 90, 92, 95, 95, and 102. Those are advertised and who knows what shennanigans you would see when you actually sit down and get their true price. Ford is chasing an incredibly small market with these pricetags. I would say people looking for a toy up near six figures has plenty of options that do not have a Ford emblem on it. To be fair I checked their regular gas F-150 offerrings in stock and 2 of the 3 dealers have nothing below $61K. One dealer shockingly has a large inventory of XL & XLT trims in the 43-47K range. Near me not many dealers have any crew cabs below 50K across all truck manufacturers.
I just wonder how on earth any legacy auto maker can compete with Tesla if they have to compete with a dealer network.EV's require less servicing so dealers are going to continue to demand big up front mark ups It looks like the dealer system of marketing is doomed in the future or some major changes will need to be made
The major automakers long ago structured the business so the dealers made little money on sales compared to service. As EVs require much less service, and therefore the dealers lose service business, the manufacturers need to restructure the business for EVs or the dealers disappear anyway. No loss really.
I sent in the reservation fee and after 2 years they sent it back since my budget does not allow for an $80,000 toy. They could have kept the price down in the high 40s for the base Pro but now they aren't even contacting me. Very disappointing. I've owned 4 previous Ford trucks. They are destroying loyalty.......... on both sides of the deal.
I had a reservation for a 150, $39,900 when I made it $59,900 when they said I could order it! Then I couldn't even order the pro. I had to order the Lariat for $75,000!!!!!!!!!!
Back in 1970 if you spent $1million on Ford trucks you could buy 270 units. In 2006 if you spent $1million on Ford trucks you could buy 43 of them. Today $1million gets you 10 or 20 trucks. High tech, environmentally safe, rolling palaces are expensive. Too many people bought these 50 to 100K rigs and set the wrong precedence. Now the manufacturers struggle to and can't deliver an affordable Ford.
I also love Fords. F250 Super Duty Diesel owner here. Love the truck - but realize Diesel and ICE trucks/cars will eventually be replaced by Electric. It is the future. I am also a Tesla Stock own - so I want to see Tesla do exceptionally well. But, Tesla like all companies in any industry need competition to keep rices in check. I also want Ford to succeed.
Drove by a little Ford dealer in east central Iowa last weekend . They had 5 Mach E out on the front row . There isn’t anywhere to charge them around here . They would probably give you a good deal .
A few months ago I was reading that Ford was very upset with dealerships jacking up the prices of the Lightning and threatened to cut their allotment of the vehicles. From everything I've seen at the dealerships, nothing has changed.
I think it's obviously a dealership pricing problem, but also people are realizing they aren't saving nearly enough between a gas an EV auto. The amount of charging time it takes cuts into conveniences if your garage is not able to charge overnight well and cold weather zaps the mileage. There's been quite a few people that have needed to be towed to a charging station or having a tow truck charge their cars in inclement weather. The range is different in weather and not reliable as gas engines. Plus the amount of money it takes to charge a vehicle isn't where people estimated. You're not really saving much when you factor in the amount of the vehicle, insurance, and high priced maint or the home's electricity bills.
A dealer has said!…………….. That says it all. I am pretty sure there was a report on this elsewhere, 4-5 months ago. So, is this current news? Cancelled pre-orders is bad news for the maker, so why would you deliberately do this? You wouldn’t. Here’s an example of bringing on an accelerated change that no one asked for. Dealers apparently have to pay to get involved in disruption and during a downturn with sales risks. You would definitely have reservations I think.
After rotting on the vine for 2 years with our F150 Lightning reservation, we realized that Ford had announced a smaller electric truck in the future and we did not convert to an order.
I suspect the announcement from Ford of switching to NACS is actually causing them to lose some sales in the short term; personally I like the F-150 lightning but I would never want one without the Tesla charging experience right out of the gate - how many others are also delaying a potential purchase until they can also seamlessly use the Tesla charging infrastructure?
I am a life long Ford owner. I have zero interest in an ev, and know of no one who wants one. Add in the huge price hikes, and I am not surprised that the dealers are over stocked.
I think part of the problem are the dealers they burned people too much with huge markups during the pandemic and now people are avoiding them.
So, dealers should think of the oversupply as a 'market adjustment.' Karma.
They wouldn't even honor my MSRP Maverick i ordered on the first allocation slots instead they wanted to charge me a "market adjustment" of 8k. Fuck Ford until they get their dealers in check i will never buy another Ford.
I looked about a year ago into getting one and they wanted an extra $10K. I said no things, and left. I have not checked back to see if they are still doing that, and I do not have any plans to do so. I did the same thing with Kia and the EV6. Towards the end of last year they wanted an extra $6000. I said nope, and left. They contacted me after the first of the year letting me know that they no longer have the market adjustment on them. I told them sorry, they lost me as a customer.
@@jiminauburn5073 Good for you! I'm sure there are many others with similar experiences. You did exactly as I would. The dealerships are gonna go bankrupt due to their own greed and will be turned into EV charging rest stops with food and shopping :D
One could argue that Tesla did the same.
Dealerships shot themselves in the foot when they jacked up the price and refused to bargain with buyers. I’ll never buy from a Ford dealership again because of this.
It must be the reason Tesla decided to sell their cars themselves instead of dealing with dealerships.
Here's the problem. I went to Ford's site it says $49,995...but then when you actually "search inventory near me", there is nothing under $88,000. That is burning trust.
That undercoating is expensive now.
That’s exactly what’s happening to me. Ford dealerships are the problem for the company. They are still doing business like old times. We want tesla like experience
ICE F-150’a are not selling well, either… they got way too expensive
@@GantryG In all fairness, the F-150 is the #1 selling vehicle 2023 thusfar. It's out of my range but someone is buying them.
It's just the paint sealant along with the nitrogen filled tires bumping that msrp up, LoL@!
I reserved the F150 Lightning two years ago. I reserved a Pro model for $39k. After a year and a half they finally let me convert my reservation to an order. But, they changed my reservation to an XLT then increased the cost of the XLT to 59k. That's a 20 K difference and they meant instead of being my second car it would have to be my primary. However, to be my primary it would need more than 230 miles range, given that it didn't support NACS charging back then. To increase the range from 230 to 320 miles, which would make it work as a primary, it would cost $18,500 more. So my 39k truck was now almost 80k to be useful. I gave up at that point.
Yep me too. I reserved one on the reveal day. They said $39k for 230 miles range 4x4 truck. In reality it would cost much more. I never would have reserved a $60k truck. Classis bait and switch.
Yikes, double the cost. 😭
The only solution is direct sales like Tesla. Dealers are opportunists and rip off customers by bait and switch
Yep, same thing happened to me except it was just Lariat or Platinum. No way I will spend that much on a truck. My first vehicle was a Ford ... my last will not be if I can help it.
The largest electric grid operator in the US has issued a level one emergency alert - raising the specter of its 65 million customers facing potential blackouts as heatwave forces air conditioner surge. Now add a few million battery powered vehicles that need to be charged and it's lights out. The power grid is not ready for a surge of large vehicle batteries in need of charging.
On the Pro model, they raised the price by $20K, and now they are offering you $10K off. I'm not falling for it. I'm sure Ford dealers have already added an extra $10K worth of markups and fees to every Lightning upon hearing this news.
Not our dealership.
How are all the cuts to tesla prices going? They clearly are not selling to have to cut prices 10-20% multiple times in a year
Despite the recent price cuts, Fords are too expensive and dealers are still packing on the mark ups.
I canceled my order when my dealer sent me an email saying that if i wanted to keep my place inline i would need to pay them an additional $10,000
It is a pricing problem and early adopters who had sufficient money to buy an EV have cycled through the market. Inflation has removed the ability for those who would have had to stretch to buy one. To have any success any EV needs to be near to or less than 40k after credits and closer to 30k. Mach E is far from that as are other EVs not selling well. It will be interesting to see if GM can supply the Equinox and Blazer sufficiently to have a sales issue. Based on their action with the Lyriq I suspect they will stall as long as they can
Agreed. The low hanging fruit has been gathered. Absolutely the prices need to be low to saturate the rest of the market. But that must be a rough position if you are losing 20k on every car. Wow. We have a whole nation of consumers that have been give relatively easy credit for 40 years and everyone is maxed out now and its not that easy to come up with 30k let alone 40k and higher.
Ford dealers don't want to sell EVs. This is the problem with legacy auto in general. I went to a BMW dealer to buy an I4 and he said go to Tesla. They are toast unless they can convert their salespeople.
bmw sales person at dealer really told you to go buy a tesla?
Seems they are also loosing money on every EV they sell… 😉
Actually to me if the salesman did say that, here soon we shall lose one or two of the legacy automakers and to be honest thst may be best for the industry IMO. Get on board BEV's or you shall cease to exist.
Thw BMW salesman gave you a really good advice. BMW can’t build electronics. If you see a car where turn signals don’t work, most if the times it’s a BMW.
Ford’s version of “dynamic pricing”?
We ordered a mach-e last summer(2022), then waited until December when the dealership still couldn't give us a delivery date we then requested our deposit be refunded as the mach-e standard edition became the worst car (fewer features) yet became more expensive. In 2023 this year we instead ordered a Model Y.
Ford is shooting themselves in the foot. Hopefully, this problem will get rectified before Ford is wrecked.
Good decision !! 👏🏼😃
U dodged a bullet!! You owe your useless ford dealer a drink.
We test drove the Mach-e and Tesla last year. Mach-e felt like a better car all around. Spoke with the ford salesman on the phone about purchasing after work. Immediately ordered the model y online.
Couldn’t handle the sleazy salesman vibes.
Then had a poor ordering and delivery experience with Tesla. Then 3 trips to the dealer to fix the basic Tesla issues.
Just can’t win.
Just kidding. Our charging options are way better.
Had a similar experience except everything with my Model Y went 100% smoothly. No issues at delivery or with fit n finish. I own a Maverick though and that was such a horrible buying experience because #dealersleezebags
It was the price increases by Ford, dealers price above MSRP, the lower real life range and not offering the PRO extended range to retail buyers. It was a mistake for Ford to retrofit the ICE model to EV, it should have been redesigned at the onset. Those are just of a few reasons why I cancelled my reservation.
I know there were absolutely some dealers marking up the price of the Lightning. I only know of maybe 6 Ford Dealers within a couple hours of me. Nearly all of them I called to get on the list last summer. Only one of those 6 had a Lightning they were marking up. I don't know if they were doing that just simply because it was on the lot.. ???.. but to order one the build out and final sale they each said would be msrp plus tax and hauling fee. Of course msrp went up $20k.... lol!
Ford pretended to come down on dealers but then jacked the price up themselves!! Lol! I laugh but only because I walked!!.. fu I say ;)
In addition to the price hikes, offering the pro trim, which they never intended to make quantities to meet demand, really soured a bunch of people.
Also, there is NO need for a 4 door. We can put valuables in frunk... so make us a truck that will carry 4x8 sheet goods!
I can only speak for myself but imo last year all the excitement (including my own) was that at the time when crunching the numbers on owning an EV in nearly all scenarios you could justify the investment. Buy gas or save from buying gas at all.. this was the price of the Lightning at the time.. I seen a ROI within 8 years (or whatever I had figured in my scenario). It was a practical investment from a normal working class American.
After they upped the price 5 times on us they very quickly turned owning a Lightning from a useful and practical purchase or a "need" into a "want" only. And I don't want a Lightning that bad to have my ROI go from 8 years to 15..
.. nope ... you can keep it
Ev’s sink ships and burn houses,never mind turning yourself into toasty crisp with no way out,it’s just what you need.
In my experience, it was the mark up by the dealer, 15000 mark up and more of the regular "hidden" costs 200 here 600 there. I walked away. I want the cybertruck anyways.
This problem is not exclusively for EV’s . Inventory for all trucks is going up, used vehicle prices are dropping as is demand. I’ll wait for more competition in the truck market and/or some upgrades to batteries. 600km is my minimum for a truck that’s close to 100k Cdn. Last point, dealers hurt themselves with those ridiculous markups during scarcity.
Ford built VERY expensive vehicles. When announced the starting price was supposed to be $40K (usd), but built $80-90K. There's a big difference between $40K and $90K! The reservations meant nothing, you only needed $100 to reserve a vehicle.
You're dead on. I just bought a new Chevy Bolt(32K). I'd have bought a Lightning if Ford was selling them for what they originally said they would.
well that can also apply to Model C ...
Keep in mind that most of those reservations were for the cheap work truck version which has basically gone away.
People are cancling pre orders because the dealsherships keep charging outrageous mark ups. There charging 10k over msrp at some places.
The price-gouging by the dealers didn't help either.
5:43 Ok I agree with this somewhat with the added bonus that a normal person can not get a PRO truck! Not even if you are a business with a 1 truck need. It's a fleet vehicle that requires multiple trucks ordered at the same time! That made me angry. Thankfully I didn't have to cancel my pre-order to get my money back. I never ordered anything when my ticket was pulled.
You nailed it, Ford did a bait and switch on the Pro, they only want to sell them to fleet buyers.
I sold my Lariat because of poor range [150 miles at interstate speeds] and cancelled my Pro reservation....
I was actually excited when Ford was bringing out EVs. I couldn't believe they used the Mustang name plate, but I gave them the benefit of the doubt, but a FOUR door Mustang? Hell no. I've seen some mockups of some two doors that look sharp, but it sure seem like their focus groups must have been imbibing or something. I like the truck, I just think it's too expensive for most.
I hate it. But not for the sake of the Mustang. But for the Mach E. It will never be its own thing. Same thing with the Bronco Sport. Let these vehicles build up their own reputation and nameplates. It's also lazy.
I think say the Corolla Cross kinda works because it has basically the same interior as a Corolla and the Corolla comes in several body styles. But in general I hate when automakers share a name like this.
The buying public remembers the greedy dealers from last year. Not just Ford dealers. Now it’s payback time.
I was the 2nd on the list last summer for a Lightning at our local Ford dealer in small town Wisconsin. Just a few weeks later they had 30 on the list. Obviously they couldn't get a Lightning to save their lives.
Today they have 2 Lightnings. They called me right after my build out came in...
. .. still no biters
Not only do they lose $25,000 per Lightning sale, that sale also probably cannibalizes an ice F-150 sale, resulting in another profit loss for Ford.
When they were first introduced the price of the F150 Lightning was a bargain. Then Ford increased the price 5 times to 40% over the introduction price. Price has an effect on demand. They should have introduced it at a really high price, worked out the bugs of manufacture and figured out how to do it for much less, and then reduce the price to match demand to production. My MBA says that Ford doesn't know how to do business.
If I order something at its advertised price, and before I receive it, that price goes up multiple times and the seller does honour the original price I ordered at, well, that just pisses me off and I wouldn’t want to deal with that company again.
Dealerships created the problem. Dealerships around here (in Michigan) do not want to sell electric cars.
Great insights! I think Ford has now "Osborned" its electric vehicles by adopting the Tesla charging standard, but having it available with an adapter next year, and natively in 2025. I'm sure a large percentage of potential buyers will wait until 2025 when the NACS, Tesla, port is directly supported.
I could never buy a ccs car in 2023. It's currently a terrible user experience, and now it's obsolete too
@@JP-sw5ho Tesla is opening up for the ford's with CSS , they just need an adapter or be lucky to find a magic dock.
Current F-150 have slow charging but I don't think it will go away when they switch to nacs
I would.
The NACS Wasn't a factor,The reliability was.
@@JP-sw5hoCS isn’t the problem - after all it’s all we get here in Europe and it works fine, ok it’s CCS2 not CCS1 that you get in the USA. The problem for CCS in the USA is EA et al who had to comply with fines and punishment for dieselgate and they tried to do that as cheaply as possible so didn’t factor in reliability, cold weather performance being different in the North America to Europe and most of all they believed the equipment manufacturers that their equipment would be so reliable that they could sit back as maintenance wouldn’t be required for a couple of years.
Here in Europe we have gone through the problem of lots of chargers being down and not repaired in a timely manner for the most part and the CPO’s have learned they need reliable equipment and the technicians to go out and fix them 24/7/365 but EA and it’s CcS competitors State-side still haven’t woken up to that. These days it is becoming rarer and rarer to find chargers out of action for months on end or even weeks on end - in fact most of the problems with chargers now seem to be with those operated by the Oil Giants who are trying to greenwash their products by setting up chargers on filling station forecourts then not maintaining them - the nearest oil major owned charger on a garage forecourt to me has been out of order for 4 months - it also happens to be the only 350kW charger but as my EV only charges at 50kW that’s less of an issue than it being out of action for so long.
The software downloads don’t work either and owners are advised to contact dealer who respond they don’t know what to do about it
Yes. LOTS of software bugs and the dealers don't write code.
I think customers “had it” with dealer markups‼️
$10k discount not showing up yet. Even discounted they’re expensive. Dealers are a pain to deal with. They lard up the trucks with expensive unwanted options.Charging network experience is spotty till they get on the Tesla network. All this means no demand.
I leased my Mache from Ford Direct and give about 30 rides per week to people in it. The model will sell, people love it and the price is pretty good. The newer batteries and the Tesla charging network will really help. The population is slow to catch on. The riders that get in my car love it. All of them. Eventually sales will ramp.
I hope you're right
@@Ssshortman he is NOT
EVs are too expensive and the support for them is non existent.
Mach E is too big and too expensive in the UK
raise the price of the F150 by 50% and wonder why people aren't buying?????
Best wishes to your wife's treatment. Great you have so many who support your efforts on new reporting on Tesla and other automotive makers
Thanks mate!
Others have said it here, but the American Dealerships are a large part of the problem, it would seem. regards
The fad of driving a lithium fireball and stressing about charging it is quickly dying off
You know what they say, it takes money to lose money. - Jim Farley.
Sam, in the title you mentioned the word dealer. There’s your problem. Ford needs to ditch them asap. I for one detest them. Always hated the whole haggle thing or ‘let me talk to the manager’. Ugh. What utter tosh. Dealers will kill some of these companies.
They can't. It's against the law. The only way that will change is for you to vote for the right person to chance the law
I don't know about inventories, but I just checked and the two cheaper options, the Pro and XLT are sold out, according to Ford's Website. So it looks like the Lightning *starts* at $70k, before rebates....
Ford - "We are going to stop making cheap vehicles; we are concentrating on SUVs and trucks where the big profits are"
General Public "The economy has taken a nosedive - we can only afford cheap stuff"
Ford - "Damn! We should have seen that coming"
I never understood why they basically completely abandoned the passenger car market. Other than the Mustang, I think everything is a SUV or Truck. I had a 2016 Fusion and liked it. Just went on vacation and my rental car was a Fusion, and enjoyed driving it again.
No mention of the EVlephant in the room, Cybertruck! First just rolled off the production line. People want to see what it's like, actual pricing and range etc. And when it comes to saloon EVs, they may be waiting for the Highland Model 3 and even Y.
Maybe Ford should have direct sales for all their EVs and let the dealerships handle their ICE cars
I thought that was what they were going to do having splitting the company between ICE and BEV
Too easy. Ford likes to complicate everything so you don’t really know what your price is.
What about dealer mark ups?
this is the reason, i pass 2 every day at my local dealer, they have been moving both around the lot for the last 3 months. I looked it up online, they are well over 85k with a 6k dealer mark up
$12k dealer markup at my local Ford dealer, with ~40 Lightnings avail on their lot
Stealerships mark-up-price 😂
Real-estate agents do similar to get potential buyers in the door during an open inspection. They advertise a property way below market price and it ends up selling around market price.
Check my local Ford Dealership today. Haven't lowered the MSRP and still have a $10k market adjustment. So it is $20k over priced.They are not going to sell many.
The dealer near me actually has them for $500 UNDER MSRP. Of course they are all the Lariat models, going from $82K to $90K.
I think the problems are:
Initial price
US power grid weaknesses
Limited range carrying a load
Dependency on China
Lack of charging locations
Charging time
Battery replacement cost at end-of life
Etc. Etc.
I signed up for a lighting on day one. My dealer “lost” my reservation and ford stopped contacting me. I got my deposit back.
So I put down the deposit for both a Cybertruck and an F150 Lightning. A few months ago Ford sent me back my $100 with no explanation. I was going to buy whichever was first. Now it is going to be Tesla.
Now, the customers are having the reservations.
Good point(s) as always,Viking! 😎🖖 Here's my advice to non-Tesla OEMs (to hopefully survive): TODAY, AND AS FAST AS YOU CAN GET A COHESIVE ANNOUNCEMENT OUT (across social and mainstream media) ... Offer COMPLIMENTARY EV charger installation at home, AND a NACS adapter shipped to new customers free of charge as soon as supplies become available and technicians can be arranged. Also, offer existing EV owners a free NACS adapter (to build customer LOYALTY). A huge expense? Yes. A tactic that could get cars off the lots and WIN BADLY NEEDED MARKET SHARE (before it's too late). Absolutely!😉 I'm a Tesla investor, but I am literally rooting for the other OEMS to survive to help all of humanity have a better future because Tesla, as amazing as the team is, just isn't capable of providing all of the EVs needed now or in the near future. So, c'mon guys... get with it!😉
I think that the problem is the dealership model. They see EVs as the end of the service department and most of them make their profit there. If you remove that where are you? Nearly 6 years ago I bought a Volt and the dealer did not really want to sell it to me... I had to wait for a Tuesday evening at 8pm for the used car guy to make the contract so that I could get one. (apparently GM stopped making them due to lack of demand) At the time, the waitlist for them was quasi infinite! what a joke. P.S: That dealer is now closed today!
I also own a Volt. Love it. Just to clarify, GM killed it, not because of demand, but because of politics. They decided to go “all in” on BEVs and spent the $ for the next Gen on the Bolt instead. Decisions like that from the CEOs, trying appease their politician buddies and Wall St are going to drive the US car business of the cliff in 4-6 years. Demand for EVs is no where near what the product planners are being told they have to build towards. I even heard that directly from a colleague who was an engineer at GM until recently.
@robertaugustine5350 I love my Volt also but would have bought a model Y in no time flat if it had been available at todays price. The problem with the legacy OEMs is that they have sunk cost bias and that is what is slowing things down for them and that will likely be fatal in less a little as 5 years. EVs are progressing at about 40% every year so in 5 years the market in the USA will be about 40% EV and worldwide 60% or so. ICE profit will be negative by then... if we have a tough economic fall, as predicted, it will just go faster.
Viking, look at the F-150 "bulkhead" at 7:23 min, you can see the same 2 rectangle opening as for the cybertruck. What are they for ? Anyone knows ? Cybertruck fans tought it could be for ventilating the rear bed for camping mode.
My local ford dealer has a dealer mark up of $29,995.00 on all Lightnings on their lot
$8,500 mark up on the Mach E at my neighborhood Ford Dealer. Not a single one at MSRP in a 60 mile radius.
Good point! Dealer here marks them up $12k ---- but there are ~40 on the lot, so perhaps they'll accept far less
Correction the lowest markup was 7,500 on the Mach E
Can't wait to turn these "Market conditions" markups against them, I'd waste half a day pretending I'm interested and tell them I need whatever their makeup was off MSRP... For "market conditions"
Bring back cars like the Chevy Volt, a brilliant car that never was promoted the way it should have been. But it was another case of GM losing lots of dollars on every one sold.
I have a Volt right now. I love it. Been looking to trade it in for a BEV for a couple of years, but just cannot pull the trigger.
@@jiminauburn5073Hold the Volt.
As a used sales manager at a Ford dealership I’ve never seen a newer model get traded back in as the EV lightning and Mach E’s. Customers like the vehicles, but can’t live with the compromises of full EV.
I wish you and your adorable family the best, hoping to hear your beloved wife is out of the woods for once and for all. Malignancies are not easy, and lots have to be done to them if they are in an advanced stage. God bless you!!!!!
Thank you very much!
I'm a electrician working at a Ford Blue Oval SK Battery Plant in Glendale Kentucky USA now. These 2 buildings are over 8 million SQ feet. It pays good but long hours.$240,000 year pay package for IBEW Union Electrician.
No wonder Ford is losing money. 240K needs to go to 120K asap.
@@shoersa it's a package of earning, incentives, health care and retirement. I overstated it by $20k because of healthcare contributions. We are the low bidder on the project and bring it under cost for Ford and a profit for Lighthouse Electric. This is a $5.9 billion project that will last for 3 years more.
@@shoersa Are you feeling poor, sad, or jealous? Join a Union, Live a better life. This job pays $600 a week in retirement. Join a Union Live A Better Life.
5:38 actually the price went from $40k to $63k with no new benefits. Someone should have been fired for that bate and swtich.
as a Mach-E owner and a former F-150 Lightning reservation holder, the problem is pretty obvious to me - the dealers. I still cannot get work done on my Mach-E unless I go back to my original dealer, which if i knew this would’ve been an issue, I wouldn’t have bought it there at the time. Our Lightning reservation was with the same dealer (before we knew about the service issue) and when we got the email back in Dec 2021 saying they were going to add $30k to the config’s price for “market demand”, we promptly canceled our pre-order and switched over to a R1T instead (delivered in Feb of this year).
Ford has to get out of the dealership model or they will go down in flames. Dealers are not their friends and in most cases are actively working against Ford and their customers, IMO.
I live in Los Angeles , two issues , charging stations are either busy or broken , and huge dealer markups. They have no one to blame but themselves. Another issue for myself is that it’s not as tall as a SUV and feels more like a sedan , I banged my head twice getting into one.
They don't sell because nobody really wants an EV in North America, if it wasn't for all the government rebates you get they be selling even less.
The price is way to high I agree. The UAW is looking for a strike target this fall not sure which company it will be, but generally the old three manufactures build inventory ahead of the contract. 🤔
What nobody every talks about is the depreciation on the batteries. The used market for EV will flop because buying a used EV means also buying a new battery for thousands of dollars. For an internal combustion vehicle, the motor will last the life of the vehicle in most cases. Not so for the battery in an EV.
Did Ford just drop the lightning by $10,000. Add that to loss per vehicle.
I’m in British Columbia and the F150 Lightning goes from $95k CAD for XLT and $125k CAD for Lariat. An equivalent ICE F150 is $30-$40k less, and can actually tow a trailer. If you live in a city and don’t want to go hunting or fishing or do anything a normal truck does then you might buy a Lightning. Ford can keep their Lightings on the lot as that is where they are accumulating
$90kCAD differential will buy over a lifetime of gasoline for a new owner, and that's the pure economics.
If carbon efficiency and atmospheric impact was even a real driving factor in this or any other post 2015 EV then it would be ultralight skin/frame, smaller, more cargo ratio, less posh, fewer energy draining gadgets and heavy upholstery.
EVs are just New Boss same as the Old Boss.
The other major issue is INTEREST RATES.
The interest rates when these cars/trucks took preorders were less than 3%.
Now they are around 7%. That's a huge difference.
Viking, I think everyone is overlooking the fact that EVs are purchased using discretionary funds. The problem is that our discretionary funds are being wiped out by inflation. All those funds are going to buy food and staples. A new shiny EV is going to have to wait until the price of everything else comes back down.
Prices overall aren't coming down. That would be deflation. The inflation rate is down, yes, but that just means prices aren't going up as much as last year. The only exception is products that were affected by a significant supply constraint. Egg prices, for example, skyrocketed due to an avian flu outbreak. After that was resolved and supply returned to normal, prices came down. That is not happening with most commodities.
@@brownro214 yes, I agree. However, I think the Fed is still going to bump the index up another 25 basis points. It will be a while before prices come down to a level where people feel comfortable using their “ Discretionary” Funds. We shall see.
Viking you are crushing it with the information, thanks mate daily watcher here
I just had a look at my local Dealer, a ton o F150 Lightning's (more than they've ever had) all with $10,000 dealer mark ups!!! They're dreaming!!!!
I can count many 2022 lightnings at dealers near me. And its not just an EV problem, MSRP is too high for the common person to buy a new truck.
In my country you only see msrp or less at dealers. Mark up just isn't seen unless it's hidden in an already marked up price. Online or dealership, the price is the same.
My reservation went from $39.9k to $59.9 k and that does not account for dealers markup. So I canceled like many. GM should pay attention to this and not alienate future customers.
The problem is with dealerships. They control actual selling prices. Their argument for protectionism is that they help the consumer save money. So, start that. I got my Ford Focus at 25% below msrp with dealership discounts, but that was then.
Umm, getting a great deal on a low-cost, compact POS Focus is NOT the FLEX you think it is, bud.
Dealerships let you have that deal... They NEVER make $$$ on them cheap small cars. so they give them away just to add extra numbers on their monthly tally board.
Trucks & SUVS is what they focus on to "Hold the Gross" on car sales
@creolerican Ironically, I could have gotten the same $6k discount on the Flex. The percentage was less because the msrp was higher. It was a POS - was on a rollback to the dealership within 30 days of driving off the lot.
@@foxtrotwolf6081 I hear ya.. my brother-in-law was the finance mgr at a very large Mercedes dealership in So Cal and he would hook me up and sell me the E-Class 6-month-old service loaners at drastic discounts.
I lost that hook-up now that I drive an EV., but it's worth not spending money on GAS and Oil changes and brakes
I was a day-one register for the F150 L. My expected cost was $77,000. 20 months later, I got a note saying I could actually order. The cost now? $132,000. Eff you, Ford.
Mutiny - The dealerships are sc**wing the pooch knowing there's no future for them. Would-be buyers, learning that others have ordered one online only to faced with $10k-$30k dealer mark-ups and discovering their capabilities are lacking and performance poor because they are simply legacy pickups built on legacy assembly lines, stuffed with batteries, motors, and third-party crappy software, all of which are obsolete, have decided to purchase Rivian or wait for Cyber. Simply put, all the incumbent"s EVs are makeshift cobbled together until they can reThink from the bottom up, are wheels up, a mobile software platform, Smart car, laptop on wheels, using ALL the current technologies as was Tesla able to do, just as smartphones were able to do and look what happened to Blackberry.
I put down the deposit and waited 7 months. When it was time to order, Ford told me, as an individual, I was not allowed to order the work truck or the XLT model. I had to buy a premium model for approximately $70,000. I asked for and received my deposit back from the dealer.
Charging $80,000 for a truck is putting a lot of people off.
Executives (and dealerships) are their own downfall and will always create their own ecomomic demise. That's capitalism, no boom and inflation without a bust. And this one is seeing an oversupply and under delivery of projected profits.
And the executives will blame EVs for the recession they created.
Did a quick 3 nearest dealer check on Lightnings. Cheapest listed at $76K. Then we have 80, 83, 84, 88, 90, 92, 95, 95, and 102. Those are advertised and who knows what shennanigans you would see when you actually sit down and get their true price. Ford is chasing an incredibly small market with these pricetags. I would say people looking for a toy up near six figures has plenty of options that do not have a Ford emblem on it.
To be fair I checked their regular gas F-150 offerrings in stock and 2 of the 3 dealers have nothing below $61K. One dealer shockingly has a large inventory of XL & XLT trims in the 43-47K range. Near me not many dealers have any crew cabs below 50K across all truck manufacturers.
I just wonder how on earth any legacy auto maker can compete with Tesla if they have to compete with a dealer network.EV's require less servicing so dealers are going to continue to demand big up front mark ups
It looks like the dealer system of marketing is doomed in the future or some major changes will need to be made
Bait and switch with the Pro model… everything else is too expensive.
The major automakers long ago structured the business so the dealers made little money on sales compared to service. As EVs require much less service, and therefore the dealers lose service business, the manufacturers need to restructure the business for EVs or the dealers disappear anyway. No loss really.
Were those reservations FAKE? Did they just make that up to keep the stock price up?
I sent in the reservation fee and after 2 years they sent it back since my budget does not allow for an $80,000 toy. They could have kept the price down in the high 40s for the base Pro but now they aren't even contacting me. Very disappointing. I've owned 4 previous Ford trucks. They are destroying loyalty.......... on both sides of the deal.
I had a reservation for a 150, $39,900 when I made it $59,900 when they said I could order it! Then I couldn't even order the pro. I had to order the Lariat for $75,000!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks!
*"Great Detective Work"*
Getting to the bottom of things and letting us know what's going on 👍
Back in 1970 if you spent $1million on Ford trucks you could buy 270 units.
In 2006 if you spent $1million on Ford trucks you could buy 43 of them.
Today $1million gets you 10 or 20 trucks. High tech, environmentally safe, rolling palaces are expensive. Too many people bought these 50 to 100K rigs and set the wrong precedence. Now the manufacturers struggle to and can't deliver an affordable Ford.
I doubt you could get 20 F-150s for $1M today. Probably at least $1.2M-1.3M.
I also love Fords. F250 Super Duty Diesel owner here. Love the truck - but realize Diesel and ICE trucks/cars will eventually be replaced by Electric. It is the future. I am also a Tesla Stock own - so I want to see Tesla do exceptionally well. But, Tesla like all companies in any industry need competition to keep rices in check. I also want Ford to succeed.
We’re still seeing dealer market adjustments on Mac e’s and Lightenings, why?
These market adjustments need to turn negative to reflect the real market here!
Drove by a little Ford dealer in east central Iowa last weekend . They had 5 Mach E out on the front row . There isn’t anywhere to charge them around here . They would probably give you a good deal .
A few months ago I was reading that Ford was very upset with dealerships jacking up the prices of the Lightning and threatened to cut their allotment of the vehicles. From everything I've seen at the dealerships, nothing has changed.
A pickup that can only go 230 miles in perfect conditions will never rival gas powered trucks, especially for the construction industry.
I think it's obviously a dealership pricing problem, but also people are realizing they aren't saving nearly enough between a gas an EV auto. The amount of charging time it takes cuts into conveniences if your garage is not able to charge overnight well and cold weather zaps the mileage. There's been quite a few people that have needed to be towed to a charging station or having a tow truck charge their cars in inclement weather. The range is different in weather and not reliable as gas engines. Plus the amount of money it takes to charge a vehicle isn't where people estimated. You're not really saving much when you factor in the amount of the vehicle, insurance, and high priced maint or the home's electricity bills.
A dealer has said!…………….. That says it all. I am pretty sure there was a report on this elsewhere, 4-5 months ago. So, is this current news?
Cancelled pre-orders is bad news for the maker, so why would you deliberately do this? You wouldn’t.
Here’s an example of bringing on an accelerated change that no one asked for. Dealers apparently have to pay to get involved in disruption and during a downturn with sales risks. You would definitely have reservations I think.
I was willing to buy a lighting, had an early reservation. They would not sell me the Pro. Not going to pay 80k so I choose cancel my order
After rotting on the vine for 2 years with our F150 Lightning reservation, we realized that Ford had announced a smaller electric truck in the future and we did not convert to an order.
I suspect the announcement from Ford of switching to NACS is actually causing them to lose some sales in the short term; personally I like the F-150 lightning but I would never want one without the Tesla charging experience right out of the gate - how many others are also delaying a potential purchase until they can also seamlessly use the Tesla charging infrastructure?
Not sure where you are getting your information, as here in Houston, Texas...they are selling as quick as we can get them.
I am a life long Ford owner. I have zero interest in an ev, and know of no one who wants one. Add in the huge price hikes, and I am not surprised that the dealers are over stocked.