80/20 Bronze or Phosphor Bronze? - Which strings are better for YOUR acoustic?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ย. 2022
- #AcousticGuitarStrings #8020Bronze #PhosphorBronze
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You've probably heard these generalizations about acoustic guitar strings: 80/20 strings are "bright" and "bass-y." Phosphor Bronze strings are "warm" and "darker." Hmm... Really?
While the tonal differences ARE obvious, the generalizations are misleading. For example, with their extra midrange punch, Phosphor Bronze strings can sound BRIGHTER than 80/20s on certain guitars.
In this video, Robert explains the chemical, corrosive and tonal differences between 80/20 and Phosphor Bronze strings and offers some opinions about which string type is best suited to specific guitar types and brands.
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Hi, my name is Robert Cassard. Thank you for watching, liking and subscribing.
I am a lifelong guitar player, singer-songwriter, producer, and music fanatic. I create Guitar and Recording Discoveries videos to share the pure joy of music - shortcuts to help you play guitar, sing, record and sound great doing it. I learn the hard way so you don’t have to!
Learn more about me, my music and my videos:
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Check out my band Cosmic Spin’s website:
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This is the best description of the differences between acoustic guitar string composition I've seen. I agree with your observations 100%, especially when matching string type to specific guitar brands. I play a Yamaha AC3M that has a warmer tone, similar to Martins and Gibsons. I bought PB's once because I couldn't find Elixer 80/20's and had to remove them asap because my guitar just sounded blah (that's the only word that came to mind) :).
Thanks for weighing in, PeteA54. I hope you find lots of other valuable info on my channel! You can find ALL my videos at guitardiscoveries.com
absolutely BRILLIANT! Thank you so much. I'd been hearing PB are warmer, but you explain exactly why. Also liked that you point out which guitar brands sound better with which of the two.
Glad it was helpful, Gman. I'm happy you found my channel and I hope you find lots more valuable info! 🌟🎼
Really helpful - I’ve been working on a song that needed less boomy mids, and a quick change to 80/20 has got me the exact sound I was looking for. Thanks.
I’m happy this helped, Andy. Surprising what a difference it makes on certain guitars!
Well I have to thank you for your knowledge, Robert. I have a 2018 Martin D28 I have had for four years and just never loved the sound for my playing style (too boomy). I even resorted to sticking a small hand towel inside to try to tame the boom, but it killed the sound too much so I just put it up for sale on craigslist a week ago. But after watching your video I ran down to a local guitar shop and bought d'addario custom lights 80/20 and just absolutely love the sound--it took away the thick boom and gave a sweet tone I can sing with and is much easier to play. I have always used phosphor bronze lights or mediums and never thought to change. Awesome advice. I removed my for sale listing on craigslist and am keeping the guitar. Thank you.
Thank YOU, Terence. You just gave the perfect explanation of why I started this channel in the first place! SO HAPPY your D-28 now has the sweet 80/20 tone you want. And now there's room for your vocals, too. Have fun with her! FYI - I have a bunch of videos related to acoustic guitars and odd but important topics like pick gauge, capos, etc. My guitardiscoveries.com website has my videos divided by category. I hope you check it out and find it valuable.
Well now I know why I play 80/20
Play on, Jerry!
It's totally guitar related!
Getting ready to finally buy my first set of Elixers (after all these years) and did not realize there was more than one kind. This video was very helpful in explaining the difference between the two! Thank you sir!
Glad I could help, Michael!
Thank you so much for a really great comprehensive explanation. Take care, David.
Glad it was helpful, David. Of course, adjectives to describe tone are always subjective. For example, I find it interesting that some people describe the less scooped sound of PB strings as "warm." To me, the added midrange frequencies sound "jangly" or "full" or sometimes even "crowded," but that doesn't equate to "warm" for me. (Just my opinion, though.) If I pick up any acoustic guitar and have to PUSH to sing over it, It's likely strung with phosphors. My "new" Martin HD-40MK (2001) came with PB strings - it sounds incredible played solo. th-cam.com/video/CHLG0kCfWHk/w-d-xo.html But it's a challenge for me to sing with, so its next set of strings will be 80/20s.
Great video explanation! I use them all cause I play a lot of guitars, but now I have a much better understanding. Thanks for sharing your expertise and experiences! Best to you, Rob
From one Rob to another, you're welcome!
I loved 80/20 in the past for brightness, but then I realized PB have much more overtones and have more tension, and as a solo performer I want as much sound from an acoustic as I can get.
Nice. Put one in the Phosphor column!
Interesting I play a cedar top Takamine mahogany back and sides. All solid. PB has always been my choice but can get a bit muddy. I wonder if the 80/20 would kinda give some clarity while maintaining the warmth of the cedar.
Amigo fosforo bronce tiene menos tension ,tal vez ee confundiste de sensación pero las 80/20 son mas tensas
@@Wolfplayco Presto presto, por favor!
Thanks! I've been using Martin phosphor bronze on my Martin 00-18 for a long time because its sides and back are mahogany and the PB sharpens the tone. But I liked your explanation of the relationship between strings and vocals so I'm going to give the coated 80/20 Bronze a try. Thanks!
Sounds great, Anne. Please come back and tell me how it affects your sound.
So interesting - I’ve always been drawn towards phosphor bronze, and I see that makes sense , especially as now I’m wanting to step up in the mix with my twiddly bits between vocal sections , whereas the singer strums a more scoopy sound throughout, I will suggest 80-20’s to him👍🎸🇬🇧
That sounds like a good “tonal plan,” John. Please come back and tell me how it sounds!
These days I only play on single or double 0 guitars, not lacking in midrange. When I put a medium gauge set of 80/20s on the single 0, I couldn't stop smiling...big, deep loud fat sounds coming from such a small thing. It makes sense that on the dreads, phosphor bronze would fill in the natural scoop of mids. Great video!
I love to think of that couldn’t-stop-smiling moment, Christian.
Good job ineed! Thank's a lot!
Glad you liked it, Nikita. I'd never heard it explained this way. It took me years to understand the actual somic differences between, 80/20 and Phosphor Bronze.
Lovely work man. Thx
Thx Jasper.
Great info! My Takamini always records on the thin side. I haven’t tried phosphor bronze yet, but I’ll give it a go!
Come back and tell me about the difference it makes. You might want to make a before/after recording so you can make a direct audio comparison.
Thanks for this valuable information!
My pleasure. I've never heard anyone else explain the EQ curve of the string types, but it makes a huge difference to me.
@@RobertCassard absolutely 👍🏻
Just great explanation!!
Glad you liked it, Ricardo! 🌟
I used to use uncoated Phosphor Bronze, but now I'm using D'Addario XS coated 80/20 Bronze because it compensates for the added coating. Amazing strings!
I have some, but haven’t put ‘em on yet. Glad you like ‘em so much!
Great info!!
Glad it was helpful, Rick.
Excellent video Robert. I just gotta a Taylor 114e for Christmas and it came with with the Elixir Nanoweb Phosphor bronze. I didn’t like the tinny sound so I put the Polywebs on - my favorite and that did the trick. Fell in love with my guitar even more.
That’s great to hear, Tidus. String choice really matters, eh?
@@RobertCassard most important pic for a guitarist for their taste of tone :)
@@tiduschapman1774 Most guitarists have no idea how important their choice of strings is to their sound...
@@voodoovideoclub Sure, but some do.
This was a great video, really helped me a lot zo find out wich stings I"m gonna choose
Glad it was helpful, Royal Kobra!
Excellent video, thanks for the help. Objective comments, so can be trusted.
Glad it was helpful. I’m not here to sell anything, I just know it’s easier for me to sing and hear myself with 80/20s!
Thank you. Its been very helpful
Always happy to hear 👂 when one of these videos make a difference!
excellent explanation for vocals
Glad it was helpful, Mr. McSauce.
I play Martin phosphor bronze “SP”… medium gauge for many years and now lights. I like them because they stay in tune and “last” longer than any string I’ve tried.
Thanks for the informative video
Thanks for that info, T. If I do another in-depth string comparison, I'll have to add Martin SPs to the competition.
@@RobertCassard Great, thanks again
ELIXER will last 10x as long as Martin SP. If haven't tried them then give the nanoweb Elixers a try
I learned my impulse buying a three pac of XS 80/20 was not a mistake for my D-18. Very happy with their XT PB that I've been using.
Great to hear. I have some waiting to be installed.
thanks for the info. more power :)
You're welcome!
Thank you kind Sir! First time replacing my J-45 and I didn't know which one to get
Glad I could help! As always - no right or wrong choice, just which one your ears like best!
Great, clear presentation- Thanks. What about Nickel Wound by D'Addariao (EXL110) ? Regular Light Guage strings?
Haven't tried Nickel Wound on any acoustic guitars. Have you? As for your question about gauge, in general, I do use regular light gauge on my fullp-size acoustics. I have a Martin LX1e travel guitar with medium gauge, which helps enhance the bottom end.
Great video. I've actually been using 80/20 on my archtop jazz guitar. They sound fantastic!
Great to hear! What’s the brand and model of your archtop?
@@RobertCassard Eastman AR580CE. I use elixir 80/20 12 gauge. I may try the Phosphor Bronze when these get worn out. I use them on my acoustics.
@@analogalien beautiful guitar! Do you usually play unplugged? Interesting that you’ve been using 80/20s on an electric ⚡️ I have a maple-bodied archtop from The Heritage called an H-575. I use Elixir electric strings on it and love ‘em. Plus they last a LONG time…
@@RobertCassard The guitar has a pickup in it. It is modeled after a Charlie Christian pickup. I had it custom made. I've always found that whenever I used flats with a humbucker it killed the personality of the guitar.
Oooh, that 1964 Gibson there! My next-door neighbor when I lived in Kalamazoo, MI was a Korean War vet who worked in the acoustic side of Gibson for years and years. There's a real good chance he helped make that one!
I love that, 1989! I grew up about an hour north of the Gibson factory. Funny for me to think of those folks toiling away, making these beautiful instruments, while i was toddling around. I'm forever grateful to that crew. It's one of the reasons I couldn't resist buying a guitar made by The Heritage once Gibson moved South and the Kalamazoo employees took over the old plant and kept making amazing guitars. Here's my very first Guitar Discoveries video, featuring, not surprisingly, my J-50: th-cam.com/video/mx8EmutRQ3A/w-d-xo.html. And video #5, about The Heritage: th-cam.com/video/YVjQZsI712Q/w-d-xo.html
Great comparison. I started using phosphor bronze about a decade ago. They never really sounded as good as I hoped. I have a better understanding why now. I'm going to order a pair tomorrow. Thanks.
I assume you mean you'll order some 80/20 strings Rudy. Come back and tell me if you prefer the sound.
Thanks! I use Dr Sunbeams 12's PBs, John Pearse 12's PB and Gibson 12's PBs. All NON Coated. I use a Gibson Modern Classic Hummingbird. Thanks againfor the demo.
If you sing while playing your beautiful Bird, try 80/20s sometime…
I used to use Martin's 12's PB on my Bird, but martin did something to the strings when they started with the new packaging a few years back.
I used Martin strings back in the day, but got tired of how fast they tarnished and went dead. Not sure about their newer formulas.
*sorry for my English grammar. Thank you very much indeed, this was very much helpful, Sir. I love 80/20 Bronze ! And I love Brian Jones & Davy Graham, both of them musicians from the '60s. I pretty much use only Martin Originals 80/20 11 gauge size (soft & woody sound) & Ernie Ball Aluminium Bronze 11 gauge size (shimmering & a bit louder than the 80/20) with an electric flatwound strings 11/12 gauge size from any brands. I have a Korea (2005) non-bracing ladder Epiphone EJ-160E dreadnought that actually very much an average guitar, but I do love my 18 years old acoustic guitar, lots of gig & memories. And my guitar loves the 80/20 too, I think
Your grammar is very good, Wiwik. I'm happy 80/20 strings work well for you. And your 2005 Epiphone will sound better and better with age-just make sure to keep playing it so the wood stays "alive"!
Thanks! How about using with a sound hole magnetic pickup? Any differences.
P.S. I went with the small Bill Lawrence A300 pickup for my little Epiphone. Awesome!
That’s a great question, Dan. I’ve never done a side-by-side comparison, but I’d suspect that the frequency response of the strings would carry through to the pickup. Glad you like the A300!
Great explanation - certainly makes sense. Play a Taylor (314ce) with D'Addario phosphor bronze and seem to work for me BUT, will experiment with a set of 80/20's and see how they compare. Thanks a lot!
In my own experience, Taylor and Takamine are two brands that often sound their best with Phosphor Bronze strings. That said, the "scooped EQ" still applies. If the mid frequencies are getting in your way as a singer, try some 80/20s and see how they sound and feel. If you use coated strings, it will tame some of the brightest tones on the high B and E strings. If you have an easy way to capture audio, make a recording of playing only and and a recording of playing AND singing before you change to 80/20s. Afterward, record the same things with the new strings and A/B the recordings. Can't wait to hear about your experience!
@@RobertCassard Thanks so much Robert! Such a detailed response. Since I now mainly just record my playing (I'm an "adequate" singer at best) I'll likely heed your advice and stick with the Phosphor Bronze with the Taylor. I'll still try some 80/20's and record a comparison. Curious how they'll sound. Thx again.
@@west4coast77 I'd truly love to know. From my personal experience, and as a baritone, 80/20s always seem to "stay out of the way" of my own vocals. I just bought a Martin dreadnought that came with phosphor bronze strings. It's very balanced - perfect for playing instrumental stuff or acoustic solos, but there's quite a lot of jangle in the upper mids. I'm sure you can guess what MY next experiment will be...
@@RobertCassard Thanks Robert. I just recently put new strings on the Taylor (D'Addario Phosphor Bronze), so when I change again, I'll try the 80/20's and let you know how I think they work out. Interesting you got some "jangle" in the upper mids with your new Martin with phosphor bronze...hmmm... I tend to prefer playing a smaller guitar for fingerstyle, so don't know if a dreadnought may be a variable. I've posted a few vids on youtube if you'd like to have a look and listen (very few views..ha! and just post on youtube so friends that aren't on facebook etc. can see/listen). Been going direct lately, simply because I live in the big city (Vancouver) and kept getting interrupted by ambulances at inopportune times. Previously recorded with a large condenser. So, that certainly changes the sound but relatively happy with the results (even though a bit synthetic sounding at times). Cheers, Ken
A lot of people like 80/20 on mahogany guitars, so I had a '47 Gibson and put some 80/20s on it, seemed to be the right kind of guitar for brass strings as I hadn't used those in a while and thought I should give them another shot. I did like them fingerstyle playing and if that's all I ever did with the guitar, I'd have kept them on it too but learned that overall I like the definition of phosphor bronze strings the best..
Whatever works for you is the best! Thanks for watching and saying hello.
So that means if I want to primarily SING then 80/20 bronze is the option for me?
And great video btw ❤
It works that way for me, at least with my vintage guitars… Thanks for watching, Ambar.
Interesting perspective, and uniquely practical/pragmatic. Years ago I bought a set of Elixer Nanoweb 80/20 Lights by mistake. Been playing Phosphor Bronze for decades and have always liked the "complex nature" of the sound, BUT...my primary guitar is now a dreadnaught that's a bit dark (rosewood back and sides) yet capable of defined top end thanks to its Engleman spruce top. Like you, my focus is that of singer/songwriter, and thanks to your video presenting that point of view, I'll finally take the plunge and install those 80/20s. Who knows. Might render a whole new perspective, or I might toss 'em after a week... =]
My emphasis is recording. If I need to boost that 80/20 mid-range a bit, it should be easy enough to correct in the studio. Thank you, Robert.
I’m eager to hear how you like your dreadnought with 80/20s. I like your description of the “complex nature” of PBs. In my recording experience, some of that density and complexity isn’t easy to eliminate using EQ. Yes, you reduce the volume of the mids, but the complexity of tone is still there.
If you follow my channel, you may have seen that I recently bought my “holy grail,” a Martin HD-40MK. It’s the Mark Knopfler version of a vintage D-28, and it has an alpine spruce top made of Italian wood from the same area where Stradivari got wood for his incredible violins. In other words, the top is RESONANT!
It arrived with PBs, and it truly sounds phenomenal played alone (that is, when I’m not singing with it). BUT it’s output is too intense, mid-range-y and complex when I’m singing along. It’s like I’m fighting to be heard. So I’ll be trying the same thing you’re about to…switching to 80/20s. Please come back and tell me what happens! In the meantime, here’s my 20-year-old “new” Martin and how I found it: th-cam.com/video/YXiaM-pGbyE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=H4OEqlovJHh9alMI
Well I sure learned ALOT thanks so much .. I also now know why I do not like the sound of Taylor or Takamine that much the brightness of their high strings is irritating and now I know why. Phosphorus Bronze I will be using on my one guitar that is too bright on the 2 high strings. Thanks again P.S. I have asked and asked around what strings should I use to get rid of the brightness and even the Guitar Shop could not really help me AND searched all over on the internet also.
Glad this helped, Linda. Using coated strings also helps mellow the brightness. Tell me how your guitar sounds after you make the switch…
@@RobertCassard Hi Robert thanks so much for your reply I did not get notification and just came back to watch your video again. YES ! I love the sound Thanks again
So glad to 👂 hear that!
Great video! Very informative. My 1974 D-28 sounds muted with the PBs I'm using. What gauge coated 80-20s would you suggest to a player who uses guitar for rhythm and vocals?
Hey Jerry. I find Elixir Light Gauge 80/20s to be heavy enough to sound full and rich, feel easy enough to play for long periods, and not get in the way of vocals. Here's a link: amzn.to/3InNWUL
Hey Robert, great video! I’ve been studying ‘bout strings these days and I was looking for some quality information. Glad to tell you I found it. These days I’m into GHS strings, and their ‘vintage bronze’ strings I have on my guitar(kind of Gibson style) are made of 85/15, which is not quite general. What characteristics would the 85/15 have? I would like to hear your opinion.
85/15 strings are called "vintage" because they actually pre-date the development of 80/20s. Can't guarantee it without hearing them in person, but they should have a little less of the scooped midrange. Keeping much of the brilliance and bass response of 80/20s, but filling up the mids. Halfway to Phosphor... Probably great for fingerstyle playing.
@@RobertCassard I think what I felt is quite similar to your guess. Thanks for sharing your opinion Robert. I look forward to some more videos of yours
@sigmoid9 cool! Glad your experience seems to corroborate my guess. I might need to to try 85/15s!
I have a Taylor KOA and had been using 80/20s to brighten sound up a bit. I recently put the Martin Retros (Monel) on it and amazing how the sound has improved to my ears. I don't like the look of the strings but they do sound and play great. I may experiment and put them on my Martin HD28 and see if I like vs. the PBs I current use.
You’re the second person who’s mentioned Monels. I’ve never tried them. Can you try to explain their tone relative to 80/20 and PB? I clearly need to give them a try…but I want to choose the “test guitar” wisely!
@@RobertCassardThanks for your explanation. I would suggest not to bother trying Martin Monel Retros on a standard spruce/redwood guitar. They made my $300 Takamine maple back come alive, however. They also helped out my Rainsong carbon fiber sound more like a wood guitar, - also added titanium pegs to the Rainsong to change vibrating mass as well as a proper radius compensated bone nut. Why Rainsongs come from the factory with an incorrect radius nut I will never know.
I tried Elixers when they first came out in the late 90's as everybody raved about them. Did not like the dead, muddy, muffled, rubbery, dull, lifeless sound at all. Tried to like them for a week, never tried coated strings again. Not for me YMMV.. Maybe the modern updated coatings sound better but I will never know, you just don't go back to vinegar when there is so much honey available.
@@K.B. thanks. I have an all-maple Heritage H-575 hollowbody archtop. Maybe I’ll try Monels on that…
Great video! I prefer 80/20 for the very same reasons he outlined. I always wipe down the strings after playing with a clean 100% cotton little child's t shirt. They're the perfect size. Eventually the strings do get a bit dull and tarnished--but I love that muted, softer sound! Strings will stay on my guitars for a very long time until completely dead.
Thanks for the confirmation, Leonard. Glad you found my channel!
@@RobertCassard You're welcome!I love your videos! You and Rick Beato are amazing music scholars.
Beautiful guitar!
Thanks! Gets better every year…
well i wasnt know that as a insturemantal fingerstyle guitarist. Time to test phospor bronze !
Have fun testing. Come back and tell me if you like Phosphor Bronze for finger tyle playing.
The WAY you play can affect your acoustic just as much as strings. Especially the thickness and type of pick if you use one. The way you finger pick just as much. Always used 80/20s
True, Dolphin. One of my first videos was called How Thick is Your Pick: th-cam.com/video/iTWVbB36Cmw/w-d-xo.html
It makes a huge difference... it can even sound like a completely different guitar.
I have never heard that description of difference between 80/20 and PB. Eye opener. I used to prefer 80/20s on my Martin but have since became very happy with Monel strings. or Martin Retros. I have never liked PB strings. Somehow reminds me of the spring on a screen door.
Hey Dennis. I've never head anyone explain the differences like I do either, but I've been a singing guitarist long enough that I was actively playing and singing when PB strings were introduced in the 70s. I've sung (thousands of times, both live and in the studio) with both kinds of strings, so I've become very confident in my opinions. Yet somehow, in 50 years of playing, I've never tried monel strings like the Martin Retros. I hear they have natural corrosion resistance and generally are quieter than the brighter alloys. And I'll bet they DON't sound like the springs on a screen door! LOL
I guess we all have our preferences. I love phosphor bronze strings and have used them on my (dark) Martin D-35 for over 50 years. I gigged for 7 years in my younger days, as a singer/guitarist and found the strings amazing. I picked up a few sets of 80/20's just to see if I was missing something, and strung up a new guitar with them. (I used the 80/20's by mistake, but decided to give them a try on the new instrument.) I absolutely hate them. And, I must say I can not stand coated strings, either. Changing strings is really not a pita and it gives me the opportunity to clean my guitars while doing so. Coated strings sound to me like a singer with a sock stuffed in his mouth.
Thank you for the video, but we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. :)
As I said, no right or wrong, just discovering what YOU like and what works for you, your guitar and your voice (if you’re a singer). Interesting, isn’t it, that something most people don’t even think about can make such a difference? Thanks for watching and sharing your opinions and experiences, rosewood!
Rosewood, I agree 100% with you about coated strings
All Gibson Acoustic instruments ship with 12-53 gauge Coated Phosphor Bronze acoustic guitar strings (just fyi for anyone switching strings for the first time, if you want to switch back to what you had).
Thanks for that info, @frogblues. Medium PB strings don't work particularly well on my '64 J-50. It's much happier with light gauge 80/20s...especially true when I tune strings 3, 4 and 5 up into Open E: th-cam.com/video/UZ27LX7wBZg/w-d-xo.html
@@RobertCassard Also thank you for the open E video, that is excellent! (Especially the Tangled Up in Blue part for me.)
@@frogblues my pleasure! Glad you enjoyed it.
I use Ernie Ball Earthwood 80/20’s they last a long long time for me, sound great and have slightly less tension than PB’s which to me equates to easier playing and better string vibration.
Right on, Bob. Thanks for the recommendation.
Great sounding 64 J50.. Do you use lights or mediums?
Always 80/20 Bronze - here's why: th-cam.com/video/sfIkEKvF8P4/w-d-xo.html And usually Elixir strings with Nanoweb Coating, Light gauge (.012-.053): amzn.to/3Jxy0PW
I like the aluminum bronze by ernie ball on some guitars and nickel bronze by d'addario or Retro by Martin on others. I think the aluminum bronze have a more vintage sound and the notes are almost singing when I play solos. The nickel bronze are more drier in sound but has a strong punch so I love that for rhythm style playing. Retro or monel sounds very neutral or sterile so when I just want the true and pure sound of the guitar without any coloring of the tones, I go for that. I used to play the 80/20s but gave up long ago because of the drastic change in tone after the break in period. PBs were also good for a while until the new strings came along and destroyed all the older competition, at least for me.
Thanks Mark. Are you a vocalist? Or guitar-only? I had a similar experience to you with 80/20s getting dull way too quickly until I started playing coated strings. Now I'm amazed that I can enjoy all the benefits of 80/20 strings without the drawbacks.
@@RobertCassard i used to sing more when my skills were limited but as I got better on the guitar, i tend to play more instrumental stuff now. that's why i use different strings for guitars nowadays
@@markmacalik9693 That makes perfect sense. Thanks for sharing your insights and your string preferences.
Hi Robert…what differences do string gauges make in overall tone?
Thanks for the question, Chuck. String gauge makes an audible difference on acoustic guitars, and it's similar to the difference in pick gauge.
Medium gauge is generally thick, loud and rich (less high-end attack). Light gauge is what I think of as the most balanced and "natural" sounding gauge for acoustics. Most guitars are built spec'ed with light gauge from the manufacturer. Extra light gauge offers the benefit of being easy on the fingers, but it sounds far more "stringy" and metallic. More high-end and noticeably less bass response. If in doubt, experiment, take playability notes and make recordings of each gauge. Most of my acoustics have light gauge as their sweet spot. But I have one acoustic that sounds incredible with medium gauge and too thin with anything else.
One of the first videos I ever did demonstrated how much of a difference pick gauge makes. Many people are shocked by it: th-cam.com/video/iTWVbB36Cmw/w-d-xo.html
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I sing and strum mostly. I liked 80/20. Then I keep hearing about PB sounding better. I have been switching back and forth for years. But, I just realised from your video that none of them sang! PB does clash with vocals. My next problem is deciding to stick to 12 or 13. I honestly prefer 13 because I mainly strum.
You're very welcome! This was an important realization for me, too. As for your 12 or 13 dilemma, go with what sound best to you. Most people don;t have the hand strength for 13s, so if you do, that may be your signature sound!
I have a dreadnaught cedar top seagull mosaic artist. It's gaining more action so i want to try some lighter strings and see if that helps keep the action low.
If i were to go extra light strings, should i go 80/20 or phosphor?
I was using 80/20 light and it balanced nicely with the cedar dreadnought, my concern was if i go extra light does the sound get brighter that i need to compensate with phosphorus to maintain the sound i like?
Hi Willy. The action can be affected by a number of factors other than string gauge. The first thing is to make sure your guitar’s humidity is kept around 50%. I did a video about D’Addario Humidipaks to help keep the guitar stable. Next, adjust your truss rod to angle the neck back a bit. This should allow you to lower the action to the perfect level. If you reach the maximum angle of the truss rod and the action is still high, often the saddle and/or bridge can be shaved down to lower the action. You shouldn’t have to change the strings you love!
@@RobertCassard thanks! I have a humid meter in right now reading 47%. Next steps to follow🙏
@@willywantoknow2563 Doing it right!
I have one of those Greg Bennett guitars with a red cedar top, rosewood back and sides and a mohogany neck so it’s a dark and mellow sounding. So should I be using 80/20 strings?
Hi, Corn. There's really no "should" with strings, but it's certainly worth a try. 80/20s are likely to brighten the high-end and extend the low-end, if that's what you want to achieve. Have fun!
This is guidelines video that I am looking for in looking for right string for my Yamaha F310... Thanks for the info
Glad it was helpful, FP!
@@RobertCassard Thanks for replying. I will consider to use 0.12 80/20 bronze since F310 have a bigger bodied draughnaught.
Now I am using 0.10 85/15 which is too soft and less output.
@@FPMediaVideoProduction That sounds like the right match for your guitar. Come back and tell me how it sounds with the .12s!
@@RobertCassard Sure, thanks!..
Just one more thing that I concerned, is that any differences in terms of 'tone' between using 0.11 and 0.12 (but both still 80/20 bronze)... I Understand it's only gauge measurement tension. I just worried because "maybe" too much tension will affect the neck..
@@FPMediaVideoProduction Changes in string gauge are more noticeable on acoustic than electric guitars. A set of 0.12 acoustic strings is still considered "light" gauge, They definitely shouldn't overstress the neck or bridge of any guitar that's kept in conditions with reasonably stable humidity and temperature. (More of that here: th-cam.com/video/CKrV7eJbhnM/w-d-xo.html) Almost every acoustic can handle medium gauge 0.13s without neck or bridge problems.
Holy moly, killer guitar
Thank you, Maćke. 1964 Gibson J-50. You can really hear it in this video about what James Taylor taught me: th-cam.com/video/YFThZipY-BY/w-d-xo.html
Yes! This pretty much nails it, but even better than package or manufacturer descriptions. One thing I've noticed as a fingerstyle player who does not sing (not yet anyway), is that I like both. The phosphor bronze are darker and sound great, but also have "sizzle" for lack of a better word. To my ears the sizzle isn't always desirable. I have a set of John Pearse 80/20s on my Taylor right now, and they still sound good even after 2 months. So, I guess i don't have corrosive skin chemistry. I don't have long nails like some fingerstyle guys, preferring very short nails actually. For this reason, I like the clarity and projection of 80/20s better than phosphor bronze, especially in the lower-mids and bass. I'm not alone, just learned today that the great Peppino D'agostino prefers 80/20s too. Great vid Robert!
Thanks so much for the confirmation. My ear doesn't perceive PBs as darker, but I do hear the sizzle. That sizzle is what can conflict with vocals. It's like there's more harmonic information generally. Funny you should mention Peppino. I recently heard him play "up close and personal" in the living room at a close friend's birthday party. Such a fine musician!
@@RobertCassard thanks for the response. I’ve not heard Peppino live but would love to. He is so unique!
@@smandez2023 Peppino lives in Berkeley, CA, and does intimate concerts in the Bay Area. -
@@RobertCassard yeah, I’m in the Denver area. He doesn’t have CO dates booked now but I’ll keep an eye out. He has been one of my favorites for many years. Highly technical without “sounding” highly technical for lack of a better description. So much texture in his stuff.
@@smandez2023 A while back, Peppino made Guitar Player magazine's list of the Top 50 Players of All Time.
Also primarily a singer . I experimented with strings and found myself using 8/20's on my j45 and phosphor bronze on my brighter Guild d40 and Taki . Now I know why. PS Getting nice life out of the Stringoys. But yes the 8/20 are best the first few days, great for a week or two or longer depending on how much I play that guitar, then they fall off a cliff.
I'm glad your experience is confirming mine. "Cliff falling" is a good term for the drop-off in tone. For me, it happens after only a few hours with most uncoated strings, so they're really not a practical option. With Elixirs or D'Addario XS, I'm able to change strings much more rarely. That's a godsend because I have quite a few guitars that only get played while layering sounds for recording. I can rely on them being ready and sounding good whenever I open the case, even after a few months...
@@RobertCassard I tried coated strings years ago and was dissatisfied with the tone and disappointed when the coating started to fray. I understand Stringjoy has a new string where the wire is coated before the core is wrapped. Curiosity may get the best of me. So possibly a set with my next order.
I would not disagree with a single word of this. Of course there are other formulations; I used to use the D'Addario 85/15 strings, which are a sort of compromise, and I have found that their nickel bronze strings sound fine and last really well. Trying different strings is part of the hobby.
Thanks, Mark. I have yet to try any 85/15s...
I have a Yamaha Dreadnaught and currently use Veritas DR 10-48 extra light. Corrosion p
roof.
Cool...I need to look into the DR Veritas line. Sounds very interesting!
It's been my experience after over 30+ years of suffering from what | call Obsessive-Compulsive Hyper-Critical Guitar String-Blaming Disorder (OCHCGSBD) that it indeed comes down to Phosphor/Bronze and 80/20. In general, Phosphor/Bronze strings can be considered the "Great Equalizers". On a "modest" guitar (less than $1,000, say) the Phosphor/Bronze can work wonders at helping the instrument sound pleasing. They have a generic sound that can cover over a cheaper guitar's imperfections. Also, it is very true that they last longer than 80/20s.
It's when you get up into the high-end of the acoustic guitar world that the 80/20's begin to make more sense. The 80/20s, short-lived though they are, are the strings that make a Martin, a Gibson, an old Westerly Guild F50r, sound completely unlike each other; and completely like themselves.
In short, if you want to hear what your guitar really sounds like, use 80/20s.
That's a super-insightful comment, Wyatt, and your experience matches my own. It's something I'd never quite put into words - how a very beautifully constructed and expensive guitar can sound "cheaper" and less unique with PBs. Many "cheap" acoustics do sound better with PBs; many expensive acoustics sound more typical. I guess what we're saying is: 80/20s reveal a guitar's true character.
@@RobertCassard Thanks!😊
Yes. Always coated (Elixirs) but usually coated phosphor bronze. I am going through a little personal study right now, going through 3 sets of strings in 3 weeks on the same guitar. Somehow I always seem to come back to the elixir nanoweb phosphor bronze. Interesting note about the different guitars being brighter on the high E and B strings. That is my one beef with Taylors. There often seems to be this metallicy, high pitched, steely tone (hard to describe) that I have never liked on most Taylors. I've tried throwing the E and B stings out of a set of 12-53 elixirs and getting individual GHS E & B strings that are thicker to try to tame what I hear and don't like on those strings on my Taylor. Maybe time to go back to the Martins and the Gibson. Ahh, but the dryness of the desert Southwest keeps me from exposing the nice ones to it. Over all Taylors are very sturdy guitars. Even so, I got a cracked bridge last season (along the pin holes) and a small crack in the finger board of my Taylor because of the dryness. Need to be more vigilant about humidification this season. Cheers!
Interesting that you come back to the Phosphor, so my question is "for which guitars?" I'd expect the phosphor to sound better on any Taylor. They're the epitome of a "modern" guitar and they spec Elixir Phosphors at the factory. I'd be a little more surprised if you favor Phosphor on your older guitars, like your '50s Gibson J-50. But as I said, it's all up to your ears and opinions, not mine! As for humidification, I've gotten much more careful about it in recent years, even though I'm thankful to live in the Bay Area where we have pretty stable humidity, tending toward the high side. 50-70% on most days, a little lower in the winter. Thanks for watching and commenting, Steve. I always appreciate your input.
If your guitar dates from earlier than 2014, it was factory-spec'ed with 80/20s. Phosphor starting in 2014. From Taylor: "Since June 1, 1999, Taylor has been installing Elixir Strings on all steel-string Taylor models, and currently use Elixir's ultra-thin NANOWEB design. In 2014, Taylor switched from 80/20 Bronze to Phosphor Bronze on most steel-string acoustic models. While it's perfectly OK to experiment with different types/brands of strings (excluding the GS Mini Bass), to maintain factory performance and specifications we recommend staying with the correct string gauges as follows." (Updated March 2017)
@@RobertCassard Yes, my 814CE. It was built in 2002. I just like the sound a bit better than the 80/20. Same with nanoweb over polyweb (if they still make poly web...not sure). But the guitar that I usually most enjoy playing is my 1994 000-28EC. I did a handful of local backyard solo concerts in the thick of Covid with that guitar. BUT, Martins are just more delicate guitars in my experience. The bindings fall off, and on my 000-28 a brace (or braces) have come loose! They seem to swell back into place in the summer near the ocean and won't buzz during that time of year but I can't take it to Arizona in the winter. Even in Redondo they rattle in the winter at a certain frequency. When I tap my finger on the back I can hear the looseness. Too bad, because it is a great sounding guitar. I am afraid to have it fixed because I don't know who I can trust to do the work. So, I go to Arizona in the winter and I play gigs there and I just keep using my 814CE and sometimes an Ovation Elite. I used to use my 1993 D-41 all the time but the binding kept coming off in different places (I've glued them back on myself) I think I may bring that guitar to AZ when I go back to Redondo. That guitar used to sound really nice to me. This summer I bought a new Alvarez AJ80CE Jumbo. 500 bucks. I was in Traverse City a few years back and had an hour or two to kill so I went into a guitar shop. I found, and spent and hour playing, an Alvarez AJ80CE and really liked it. That big Jumbo sound! It sounds really good plugged in and plays nicely. So, I'm going to use that for a few gigs this month in AZ and see how it goes. Probably stay with nano web PB for everything. I've really had a good experience with Elixirs. Mainly cuz they keep sounding good and I don't have to change strings so often. 😄
@@HL09128 I've heard other people talk about Martins being very sensitive to humidity changes. And no doubt and Arizona to California coast transition is a major swing. At this point, I keep all my valuable acoustics in hard cases with D'Addario Humidipaks. Don't know if you saw my video about those: th-cam.com/video/CKrV7eJbhnM/w-d-xo.html. Intrigued by your Alvarez...
@@RobertCassard Yes, I did watch your video on Humidipak. I bought 2 this summer based in your video. I just started using them now that I am here in AZ. It's quite a bit dryer here in the winter than it is in the AZ summer because of the summer monsoon season. Thanks for that video!
Hola ,quisiera saber si la diferencia de materiales tambien se aplica en las dos primeras cuerdas o solo en las 4 ultimas ?
La diferencia en la composición del metal se aplica a las 6 cuerdas.
I found out i do not like coated strings. I prefer PBs on most guitars. It gives the option of getting more high mids IF required so i simply use dynamics to cater the song if im singing. I am experimenting with Monel strings and they are really guitar dependant compared to the standard. They lean more to 80/20 w an upper 'zing'.
Thanks for sharing that. It's cool that you can control the EQ of the high mids with dynamics. I keep hearing about Monel strings. For me, they would need to be coated. I recently bought a new guitar that came with uncoated PBs, and they tarnished and started sounding dull within a few hours. So it's right back to my coated 80/20s... 😅
Love this conversation. I put Martin Monel Retros on my Martin and to me they sound great on all levels. A bit brighter than PBs but I love the sound (sort of an in between PBs and 80/20s) and playability (if that’s a word).
How long are the Monel strings lasting? @@Doowopsid Someone said they're corrosion-resistant. Does that seem true to you?
@@RobertCassard hello, well I’ve had them on for a few weeks now and they sound even better than when I first put them on which is typical I think of all strings since they some time to break in. I’m still liking them and no signs of corrosion. I play about an hour every day.
My Dad plays Elixir PB's on his Taylor 414 CE. Loves them compared to the 80/20
Taylors and PB strings are made for each other!
I have played with both types, I mostly record songs mostly with vocals and sometimes without, I like them both, but usually stick with the daddario brand, I seem to be unswitchable from the daddario brand.
D’Addario is a fine brand for sure, John. They’re the innovators of most of the string technologies we rely upon!
This might be a weird question but why do the high (E-B) strings sound different with these different types of strings? Since they're not wrapped, aren't they all just steel? Is it because of how they resonate with the other strings?
Great question. Based on my research, High E and B strings for acoustic guitar are different with 80/20 or Phosphor Bronze Strings. Even though they're aren't wrapped, they aren't plain steel and therefore do sound different.
@@RobertCassard Very interesting! Thanks for letting me know.
@@exerciserelax8719 I was happy to confirm there IS a difference
So if you like to sing but really aren’t all that great at it, which string would help to favor the overall performance? I know you mentioned 80/20 helps to give room for vocals but for someone who isn’t necessarily great at it, I presume we want strings that give us more room for error so to speak? If so, which would you recommend in that case?
Well, first things first, Jimbo. Before worrying about your string choice, let’s build up your singing confidence. Here’s the first installment in my Voice Training for Guitarists series: th-cam.com/video/BrBzawM9EqM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=QrrTDhOkrEAGZ0Zw Once you get yourself believing and delivering the message as much as singing the notes, you won’t feel the need to cover anything. At that point, the 80/20 or PB choice should be whatever sounds best to you. IMHO just because PB strings have more midrange and occupy more of the vocal mid-frequencies doesn’t make them more forgiving. But it also depends on your guitar… sorry I can’t give a definitive answer, but take it from me, vocal confidence is ultimately way more important than your strings. Cheers!
Thank you for such an in depth response. I will check out the link! New sub here!
@@jimbojackson2900 as James Taylor would say, "That's why I'm here."
Which strings do you think would sound best on a Yamaha FG5...I am a singer/songwriter...I have Elixir Nanoweb Phosphor Bronze Lights on it at the moment and they seem OK...should I try the 80/20's?
First of all, congrats on your FG5. Very nice guitar!
It's almost identical to my vintage FG-151 from the mid-70s. I featured it in one of my first Guitar Discoveries videos, strung with Elixir 80/20s: th-cam.com/video/Zptr9Vi2q0M/w-d-xo.html
I also used it for a clean acoustic lead solo on a recent song from my band Cosmic Spin (again, with 80/20s). Solo shown at 8:21: th-cam.com/video/KeTkrxhlbfE/w-d-xo.html
If you sing as much or more than you play instrumentals, I definitely recommend trying the 80/20s. If your voice is at all like mine (high baritone/low tenor), I think you'll be pleased with how your guitar and voice complement each other.
@@RobertCassard I forgot56 to mention that I also play a J-50 that I bought brand new in 1965 at Long & McQuade in Toronto, back in the day when they were on Yonge Street and had only one store at the time! My J-50 is really beaten up because I played it on the road for a number of years with my country band, Buckshot. I recently had the fingerboard sanded down to get rid of all the dents and then it was re-fretted by Michael McConville in Stratford, Ontario...McConville also installed a new compensated bone saddle and a compensated bone nut...I know some people are telling me that a compensated nut is just snake oil and bullshit, but I think it really helps the guitar play in tune quite a bit better than without a compensated nut. Just sayin'!
I just put the 80/20's on it yesterday with 13-56 Elixir Nanowebs. Sounding great! It always plays in tune way better with new strings anyway. Thanks again for the great tips and great information!
Do you use 13-56 or do you use 12-53 on your J-50.
I like the 13's because the Gibson's scale is pretty short.
Anxious to hear your opinion on string gauges.
Best
Brian
@@BrianMcNamara1 Ah, an old j-50!! Glad you gave it some TLC. I'm all for compensated saddle and nuts.
Funny, another viewer just asked me about string gauges. Here's a summary of what I told them:
When I first bought by J-50 in the mid-70s, I routinely played Heavy (.14 gauge) strings, coupled with a medium gauge pick. It had a full and rich tone for sure. Then in '79-'80, I got an intense 5-night-a-week, 5 hours-a-night solo gig at a restaurant/pub. The heavy gauge strings were too hard on my hands. So I experimented with gauge, first switching to Mediums (.13-.56). To my surprise, the slightest bit of added bass EQ on the PA system completely compensated for the tonal difference. And the highs were more brilliant. Then I tried Light Gauge (.12-.53) and it was a revelation. The guitar felt SO easy to play, and I could bend strings and play with more expression generally. And again, by adding some subtle bass boost, the guitar sounded better than ever. (And I was having much more fun.)
I've tested gauges in the studio, too. Because of some upgrades I made to my J-50 over the years (documented in this video: th-cam.com/video/H9pmT4uv2oA/w-d-xo.html) to my ear, it truly plays and sounds best with Light gauge strings. Thankfully!
I have a Martin HD-40 dreadnought that sounds best with .13-.56 Medium Gauge.
I find pick gauge really important, too. The thickness and material can have an equal or greater effect on the sound of a guitar than the string gauge. My second Guitar Discoveries video (over 5 years ago!) demonstrated the tonal effect of pick gauges: th-cam.com/video/iTWVbB36Cmw/w-d-xo.html
My Martin D-42 and Vintage Epiphone Texan pair perfectly with 80/20. For fun I’ll sometime throw Nickel on the Texan.
I'll bet they do pair with 80/20. I haven't tried Nickel. How would you describe the difference in tone?
This was very very helpful! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful, Edward. Thanks for watching. I hope you’ll check out more videos from my channel.
I love 80/20 bronze
Grazie, Alessandra!
I'm thinking about trying D'Addario XS on my mahogany back and sides dreadnought next....
I'm in line to try those myself, Ram. Come back and tell me how you like 'em...
Great video discussing the differences but would have liked to hear to the strings being played more. Just a suggestion
Great suggestion. I have a tendency to talk more than play in my videos…passing along “wisdom” and all that! LOL
@@RobertCassard So kind of you to respond to me! I did find your video to be very informative and enjoyable! Thank you
@@Doowopsid My pleasure. Here's one where I play more and resist the urge to talk at all. Phosphor Bronze on this particular Martin... because you'll notice, I'm not singing either! th-cam.com/video/CHLG0kCfWHk/w-d-xo.html
@@RobertCassard Wow, I just watched it and commented. Very cool video and your playing is outstanding! I appreciate your taking the time to communicate with me. I can only dream of getting to your level of playing. I practice just about every day but I’m a “longtime beginner” of too many years to mention! Thanks again
@@Doowopsid The whole reason I started my channel was to pass along tips, tricks, shortcuts and suggestions to help every guitarist (especially longtime beginners!) make faster progress. I hope you look around the channel and find more info that helps you stay inspired and make faster progress.
What is the mic you used to record the sound here?
Recorded with a Zoom H1n using the onboard stereo mic. amzn.to/3Y4KTrH
@@RobertCassard Thank you so much for sharing this!
@@nickname5103 It's an awesome little tool!
In fact, 80% copper and 20% zinc isn't bronze, it's brass - small wonder they are ear-piercingly bright!
Reducing the zinc and adding tin is what creates a mellow bronze alloy, so if you know metallurgy you'll know what to expect.
Home use for me is D'Addario phosphor bronze 12 gauge on everything - except my 12-string!
Thanks for weighing in, Super. Seems the manufacturers should change their product names to 80/20 Brass... Regarding the ear piercing (LOL), I find 80/20s are only super bright for an hour or two of play, after which they mellow quickly. That brightness can be helpful when recording, if you want truly brilliant highs and deep lows. If either is too much, you can use subtractive EQ to tame the tone, which is almost always preferable to additive EQ.
@@RobertCassard Yes - the wonderful world of music is rife with misnomers.
Take "tremolo arm" for example: tremolo is a variation in volume, but the tremolo arm produces a variation in pitch, not volume.
Variation in pitch is 'vibrato' so it should be called vibrato arm, but it seems the wrong name got stuck, and nobody dared change it!
I realise the transatlantic term 'whammy bar' is popular in some circles, but apart from sounding ungrammatical, I can assure you, as an Atari 2600 fan, that 'whammy' is nearly always a variation in speed or direction, so that's not right either.
I'd settle for 'vibrato bar' or even 'vibe bar' for short, but my own personal solution to the problem works very well - I unscrew it, pop it in a drawer, and hard-tail the guitar with a wooden block, which is how it should have been in the first place, IMHO!
@@SuperJ333 Oh so true! Funny because my first electric guitar was a '68 Gibson SG Special, which actually had what was called a "Vibrola" arm and tailpiece. As a long-time double bass player, I always think of up-and-down pitch variation as vibrato, despite Fender and other companies' misnomers. Cheers, and thanks for watching and firing up the conversation.
@@RobertCassard Vibrola arm! That is awesome and I'm adopting it - thanks Gibby!
Any alloy that has a majority of copper is a bronze. 80/20 is technically zinc bronze, but it was long ago given the nickname 'brass'. It is not wrong to call it bronze. Other bronzes that have colloquial names are bell metal, bearing bronze and naval bronze.
I am a pianist who plays guitar, I don't have time to change strings every week, so my guitar dies and is dead sounding all the time. Also new strings are impossible to play without squeaks. I have always played with controlled pressure fretting strings by playing with vertical hand position changes and then controlled "landing" on the next position. This technique means no squeaks on played in strings about 2 weeks old, but not for new strings.
Sounds like you NEED coated strings, my friend. The coating virtually eliminates squeaks, and the strings last for weeks or even months, rather than a few hours of play time. I've favored Elixir strings for many years: amzn.to/4bCE476
D'Addario XS Strings are also excellent: amzn.to/3OKcCL3
Thank you for the suggestion and help. I used coated strings a long time ago, bought 10 sets and even got a free guitar with it from Yamaha. Strange promotion. Can't remember what I thought of them. Will try again on your suggestion and go to a light gage. @@RobertCassard
@@WildernessMusic_GentleSerene The technology keeps improving, so I think you'll be happier with them now. I hope it solves your issues!
Martin Lifespan figured out a really good (non coated) treatment and i can confirm they don't corrode easily... At least for me.....
That’s great to hear, Ram. I haven’t tried them. My former experience with Martin strings was that they were inconsistent from string to string. I’m guessing they’ve fixed that problem, too.
@@RobertCassard from my recent experience... They seem pretty consistent....I came back to them fairly recently.. when I tried DR strings, I was disappointed with the occasional bad string.... Haven't noticed any of that with the new Martin sucks I use so far.
Sucks was a typo... *Strings 😁
@@ramspencer5492 I read right through the typo!
Tried to get it but too much my brain
I have Tanglewood acoustic folk I sing What do i get please.
LOL Christina. I understand that I'm in the weeds on this! Here's my suggestion for you: amzn.to/4cUK23J
(Elixir Acoustic 80/20 Bronze with NANOWEB Coating - Light Gauge Guitar Strings (.012-.053))
I'm a singer too, and I use these on a variety of my acoustics. They always sound rich but stay out of the way of my voice,
@@RobertCassard oh thanks Robert
Too late. Got D’addario. Phosph bronze 12 gauge. Exact opposite
Singing lessons next week.
Guitar fixed up. Its all ok
🎵
@@christinachristina8271 I hope they work well for you!
Great explanation that even a novice like me can understand. 80/20 for my FG110 it is then 👍🏻
Glad it was helpful, Pete. Vintage FG110? Come back and tell me how you like the sound.
Will do, hopefully pick some up tomorrow 🙏🏻
Hey, just to say. 80/20 Martins all the way for me on my ‘69 FG110.
I play finger style without nails. So get a lovely deep warm sound, yet still bright on the high end.
Fallen in love with my guitar all over again.
I might try coated strings next time but see how these settle in.
Thanks for the advice; from Scotland 🏴
I love hearing you've re-fallen for your old Nippon Gakki Yamaha @@petegalloway2466 One of my mottos is: Love one partner, many guitars!
Wise words, Robert. My Mrs would argue i only need one guitar though 😅
What about nickel one? Martin retro solid nikel
I haven't tried those yet, so can't offer meaningful advice.
Not trying to be a party pooper, this is a genuine question. As i understand it the 'polymer' on the coated strings is gortex or similar. Does that mean it contains so-called 'forever chemicals' - POAs or PFOAs such as are in non-stick coatings and that, when released into water supplies, cause cancer? I know gortex used to contain these chemicals.
Excellent question, John. I don't know the answer and I couldn't find anything about it on the Elixir website. I see that Gore, as a company, is trying to eliminate these chemicals: www.gore-tex.com/sustainability/protect-the-planet/reduce-chemical-impacts
I've written to Elixir and posed the question exactly as you asked it. Hopefully, they'll respond soon and if/when they do, I'll post their response here.
In the meantime, the coating on Elixir strings is very thin, so it's a small quantity compared to most other uses and applications of GoreTex. But you've got me thinking about it and wanting to know how the Gore coating differs from D'Addario and other companies who offer coated and/or treated strings. Thanks again!
@@RobertCassard Thank you, and glad that's a helpful question. I look forward to hearing what you find out.
I got an encouraging response from Gore:
Across the Elixir® Strings portfolio, only our wound strings have a protective coating of
either our original POLYWEB® or thinner NANOWEB® or OPTIWEB® Coatings. These
coatings contain PTFE, an inert fluoropolymer. These proprietary coatings have been used
for decades and we are confident that our guitar strings are safe for their intended use.
PFAS
The term PFAS stands for Per- and Polyfluoroalkyl substances. PFAS generally refers to
aliphatic substances with at least one fully fluorinated carbon atom. This is a very broad
chemical definition that includes thousands of substances with different properties:
polymers and non-polymers; solids, liquids, and gases; persistent and non-persistent
substances; highly reactive and inert substances; mobile and insoluble substances; and
toxic and non-toxic chemicals. The term PFAS is too general to be very useful for
communication purposes and it is insufficient to describe a class of chemicals for regulatory
purposes. Therefore, at Gore, we believe it is important to be specific when discussing
PFAS.
Polytetrafluorethylene (PTFE) is a distinct member of the fluoropolymer class of Per- and
Polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS). PTFE is non-toxic. High molecular weight fluoropolymers
like PTFE, are highly stable, too large to be bioavailable, and do not have the potential to
become widespread in the environment. PTFE and similar fluoropolymers satisfy the OECD
criteria for polymers of low concern.
To learn more about Gore’s Material Stewardship please visit
www.gore.com/about/materials-stewardship
That’s a mouthful, but I take it to mean the string coatings are inert and safe.
@@RobertCassard Thanks. I didn't get an alert when you posted this, so am seeing it a little late. I find it very reassuring too and will probably try a set of 12 gauge 80-20 elixirs with a Polyweb coating now. I really appreciate you looking into this.
I like 80-20’s on my D18 and my J45.
No, They don’t last as long, but they are better at detail, note separation and punchy bass.
try some coated 80/20's and see how long they last. I've been using and loving Elixir strings for years amzn.to/3PlC0av About to try D'Addario XS: amzn.to/3R2Qu06
80/20 or phosphor? Neither. I've used heavy gauge electric steel strings on my acoustic for 30+ years. Since I play mostly blues, I matched string gauges on my electrics and acoustic. The slightly longer scale length on my acoustic makes play a bit stiffer, so when I switch to electric, it's a bit easier to bend. The coated steel with my body chemistry means that a set will typically last me well over a year, not counting breaks. And this even back when I was playing heavily.
Guess I'll have to try that!
80/20 for bluegrass. PB sounds muddy. Also, 80/20, for me, stays in tune better. I run them on a D-18 and PRS SE 40. Used PB for several years, always fighting staying in tune after about a month of continuous use. Plus, I can change the 80/20's out 2 or 3 times at the same cost of 1 set of PB.
Sounds like you’ve got it dialed in for your guitar and your sound. Congrats!
I use Nickel Plated Steel Electric Strings w/ a Wound 3rd & they sound essentially like Silver Plated Copper Wound Strings, so it's more of a Gypsy Jazz Sound w/ a bit more of a Percussive Attack:th-cam.com/video/TovJZxY9hzE/w-d-xo.html
You're always trying cool stuff, Oscar. I like the copper-wound sound on the Gypsy-style guitar.
@@RobertCassard Savarez Argentine Strings w/ Ball Ends might work too for a new sound cause they sound more percussive.
@@RockStarOscarStern634 could be interesting. I've never seen or heard South American strings on one of my guitars!
You or your mix engineer can always add bottom and top end (or preferrably suck out the mid band). It should never be 'the' deciding factor in string choice.
True for preforming and recording musicians who have a mix engineer! Most of the subscribers to my channel don’t have that luxury. But the difference in mid-range boost affects just playing and singing in a room. I have a beautiful Martin dreadnought that came with PB strings. It sounded incredible but it was hard for me to sing along with while I played. I had to push my voice to be heard over it. Switched to 80/20s and, like magic, there’s a “hole” for my voice.
80/20 the best sound.
Generally true for me, too.
80/20
Thanks for the vote, Joy.
I never cared for phosphor bronze because they sound "too jangley* come to find out that is just the increased midrange, the more you know 😅🤷♂️
I agree, Nathan. I don’t want to diss anyone’s choice, but in my collection, the only guitars that get Phosphor are ones I want to jangle like crazy, e.g., 12-strings.
@@RobertCassard exactly, jangley works better for 12 string and I would like to add that coated strings seem to take enough of the edge off and sound pretty good with the 92/8 mix so there's some middle ground I guess 🤷♂️😅
@@NathanB417 I'm all about the coated strings!
@@RobertCassard Gotta have em, if you can afford them 😅🤷♂️
Choose Nickel!
How electric ⚡️ of you!
Phosphour bronze não é um bronze de verdade, bronze b20 sim tem som diferente do latão não esse bronze b8 que ninguém usa em cymbals
Obrigado por essa informação
Personally cant abide the Phosphors!
I tried to be diplomatic in this video, but I think my preference became pretty obvious by the end. LOL.
The phosphor bronze make my fingers black but they sound spectacular ❤
80/20 is way to bright for me.
What kind of guitar do you play, Martha?
@@RobertCassard Takamine. I don't like the strings it has on it now. They are also too bright for me. Any suggestions what strings I should get to have a warmer more muted sound?
@@marthaworc7873 Takamine guitars are often quite bright. I have a Takamine 12 that's positively "shimmery." Try switching to coated Phosphor Bronze and see what you think. Elixir and D'Addario are both good choices. Here's an Elixir link: amzn.to/3V8D5mu And here's one for D'Addario: amzn.to/3GN4fLq You could also try using a heavier gauge pick, which definitely darkens the sound. (I did a video about pick gauge, where you can hear the difference: th-cam.com/video/iTWVbB36Cmw/w-d-xo.html Heavier gauge strings can also darken the sound, but they will make the guitar more challenging to play. Try one change at a time and hopefully, you'll find the best tone your guitar is capable of producing. Happy discovering!
@@RobertCassard Thanks for the advice. My guitar had the action lowered by a luthier, and he put on very thin strings. It was not only shimmering, the sound was totally blinding! It will make it harder for me to play chords and bar chords, but it really has got to be done, cause I hate the sound coming out of it right now.
@@marthaworc7873 I usually use light gauge (12-53) or something close to that, and I’m generally pleased with the fullness of the tone. (I wouldn’t go heavier than Medium gauge on a Takamine.) If you switch and go up more than one gauge level, you might find yourself wanting to adjust the action again…
What about on a 12 string guitar? What would you use there. If using doubles for Regional Mexicano music.
There's no right or wrong, Dankehum, and each guitar is different. But with it's 4 octave-up strings, a 12-string projects a lot of mid-to-high guitar frequencies which fall in the vocal range. So as a general rule, I'd say if your Mexicano music includes VOCALS, I'd favor 80/20 strings. If the music is instrumental, the extra mids of Phosphor Bronze may be welcome. Have fun experimenting!
Ernie Ball Earthwood lights bronze on my Gibson J35, National brass f/picks and Pickboy thumbpick. My singing is terrible so the rest doesn't matter - works for me, change the wound G more often because it gets hammered by the f/picks.
Last time I tried phosphors - no likee. No drama.
Last time I tried Martins - OK but inconsistent out the packet, 1 set in 4 is good. Funny, they'd been OK before then >kerblooey
Thanks for the rundown, socialmeasles. That certainly is a strange distribution policy on the part of Gibson. I haven't used EB Earthwoods in ages, but when I did, I liked 'em.