The former Primrose Hill station London.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- Using footage from shortly before its closure in 1992 plus from 2011, by which time the platform buildings had been removed, this film takes a detailed look at Primrose Hill station and some of the issues as to why it closed and why neither it nor the route it is on might not be be reopened to passenger trains.
Primrose Hill is the only intermediate station on the link line between Camden Road station on the North London Line and South Hampstead on the local 'all stations' route between Euston and Watford Junction.
Electric trains first started using it in 1917, travelling from Broad Street station to (mostly) Watford Junction, although some terminated at Croxley Green instead. In the rush hours as many as 7 trains an hour operated these services, all of which were interleaved with trains that originated at Euston station and Bakerloo Line trains.
In addition some trains switched between the North London Line and Watford Junction route at Willesden Junction, travelling via Hampstead Heath station. This was mainly for the benefit of North London Line passengers, as from Watford this route was longer and slower.
As part of 'rationlisations' / 'improvements' and with the support of the Greater London Council under the leadership of Ken Livingstone trains which served Broad Street were mostly diverted to Stratford, using a section of railway where passenger services had been suspended during WW2, whilst the Watford Junction trains were routed to Liverpool Street using a specially constructed link.
But operating these trains was a nuisance for the railway who wanted passengers to change trains twice (Willesden Junction plus Highbury & Islington) and travel to Moorgate, which is about a 10 minute walk from Liverpool Street station. To help 'encourage' passengers to avoid the service trains were ran at inconvenient times which were not at all useful for people trying to get to / from work. Then claiming that hardly anyone was using the trains the service was put to sleep.
Primrose Hill station was finally killed off in September 1992.
Many years later the remaining sections of the former LNWR / LMS electric railway network became the responsibility of the Mayor of London (who at the time was Ken Livingstone) whose policies were to attract rather than repel passengers and under the auspices of the London Overground invested heavily in new trains, reopening much of the former Broad Street route and more.
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The great thing about the internet and you tube is that people can communicate via pictures and lobby/discuss for positive changes. When I was taking the trains as a kid no one new anything about any plans or demolitions or changes until after the fact and were told it was none of our business anyway. Thanks for posting.
4444colin Thanks.
I knew that this station was doomed, and that there were lobby groups advocating proper daily services.
My information came from membership groups such as the Electric Railway Society, the London Underground Railway Society, Railway Correspondence and Travel Society, Light Rail Transit Association, British Trolleybus Society, national Trolleybus Society.
and more!
all of these produced monthly magazines which shared such information (as relevant to the group). Some of these magazines were (still can) be bought in high street shops, and were sent to members of the organisations as part of their membership.
In addition, some of this type of information was published in the monthly magazines which could / still can be bought at W H Smiths and via local newsagents (or through annual subscriptions with the publishers).
Look at those gorgeous pillars..how could they destroy them? Philistines !
It's a shame we can't get it back open it would be such a great asset for the local community come on TFL and Camden Council let's get this station back in to passenger service
Yes it would be good to have this station reopened but the issue is that the railway industry does not seem to want it reopened.
A Camden Road - Willesden Junction (bay platform) shuttle would possibly not be financially viable. Extending trains from New Cross to Willesden Junction would offer a more viable service but even though a physical track connection exists the railway industry does not want East London line trains 'spilling over' on to the North London line at Highbury & Islington. They even ensured that the signalling system would not allow through services (of any kind) except under 'possession', which means when the line is closed to all regular trains and special rules apply - normally this only happens during track works.
I hear what you say but in the 1980's I sometimes used these trains and the real problems were that they were constantly cancelled and eventually reduced in frequency and run at times which were not at all suitable for people who needed to be at work by 9am or who left work at 6pm. In other words, the service was deliberately made unattractive to force people to find other routes.
Because the railway operator did not want to operate this service.
I only ever stepped on the platforms at Prmrose Hill once, this was in about 1990, when one Sunday afternoon Watford Junction - Euston DC Line trains were diverted into there instead of running into Euston!! A bus service was provided from Euston to Primrose Hill.
Network Southeast R.I.P. (The last good livery scheme)
I'd say First Capital Connect was also good for their livery and station branding.
you watched out of curiosity. Always a good frame of mind to have!
Great video such a shame this station wasn't reopened would love to have the Watford to Liverpool Street route returned.
I agree - the station should be open, but rather than Liverpool street* the trains should either go to Stratford or somewhere like New Cross via Whitechapel. To the north the bay platform at Willesden Junction would suffice.
*From Liverpool street passengers could change at Hackney Downs / Central or travel from Moorgate and change at Highbury & Islington.
@@CitytransportInfoplus Stratford would be a good viable option and could go via Primrose Hill if re-opened. I really hope that the current Crossrail where the trains terminate at Paddington can continue onto Tring via Hemel Hempstead.
A really good and interesting clip. Luckily there are people like you who take the time to make and post this kind of footage, or it would be lost forever
Amazing how at one time the NLL was so popular that both the West and East Coast routes fed into it.
When the NLL was closed between Camden Road and Willesden junction for conversion to 25kv (something to do with eurostar trains) every other NLL train was routed through here, though not stopping at the station, and terminating at Willesden junction low level, the NLL was operated in two parts, this went on for many months.
Great historical video, thanks for uploading!
@456013matt no - the line splits south of South Hampstead with one route going towards Euston and the other towards Camden Road via Primrose Hill.
I regularly wait at signal WM601 at night on the Down Primrose line. I get out onto the platform to stretch my legs and I often wonder about all the people that once used it and the contrast from then, to the present time, where its taken over by vegetation with bricked up stairways that the public once used. Now all I see is ghosts when I'm sitting there at night. Its quite erry.
Glad at least someone can make use of the platform
Do you actually see ghosts or is that a metaphor?
I love seeing footage from the 1980's and very early 1990's. I love nostalgia. Plus life was a lot better in many ways. Certainly a lot simpler and we weren't ruled by technology. Technology is very good and important but we let it rule our lives nowadays. I miss those times occasionally.
I do not let technology rule me - it annoys my family that I do not always have a mobile phone with me, and whilst I have WhatsApp on my phone I do not have the wireless or mobile data on all the time.
Boundaries and time away from electronic devices are very important - a garden filled with colourful flowers delights the eye and attracts beneficial insects ... bees, butterflies, etc
Why was the sign hanging off?
I know what you mean: this would not be welcomed. Passengers want through trains to Euston to continue, services via Primrose Hill should be in addition to services to Euston.
It would probably suffice if they terminated in the bay platform Willesden Junction low level (with Stratford being the eastern terminus).
This service would also benefit the two stations you named as at present they have a lousy 20 minute interval between trains.
@unknownperson95
erm, London is a big city and actually there are many areas which the railways do not serve at all well, so we need more, not to close what we have simply because the routes are 'inconvenient' for the railway company to provide a service!
Melbourne also need more railways, and trams. But the population density is much lower and that makes railways more expensive to operate.
Primrose Hill Station is right next door to Chalk Farm Station on the Northern Line.
Cheers, really , really interesting video!
Thanks :-)
They should consider reopening it...
Yes but as Chalk Farm because its literally 2 minutes walk from the Northern Line tube station
Suprisingly enough I think the platforms are still there (covered in grass weed) and the main building near to the railway bridge (which is now a newsagent) can still be seen.
I also know that before Camden Road you can see where the line diverges (towards Richmond & Clapham Junction) in which the left track is for goods & the right side is for the Passenger services.
It would be nice if Primrose Hill station would be reopened, but I doubt it will happen since it's now owned by a Business, but it would help the local residents that live nearby, instead of them walking to Camden Road or Kentish Town, but alas.
@CoachAlex1996 yes it was a mess, but rather than provide through trains direct to central London BR wanted to make passengers change trains at Willesden Junction and again at Highbury & Islington.
Thats why they timetabled the morning trains to arrive when it was too late for people to get to work on time and evening trains to leave before it was 'going home' time.
In the 1950's there were 7 trains an hour in the rush hours (plus more from Euston and the Bakerloo Line)
Simon
@flmabhwd Thanks.
The connection is in the tunnel, so is not able to be filmed.
Simon
@No1RailwayEnthusiast
Where did you hear that?
I've always been told that when BR resignalled the line they did it in a way which reduced route capacity so much that a more frequent service is no longer possible and that the 'elf 'n' safety plus disability / accessibility regs no longer allow 'new' instances of track sharing between differently sized trains.
The existing services are different as they were operating at the time of rly privatisation so have 'grandfather' rights.
Simon
This station looked like a dump in the 90's! And I see why it was closed.
Nice catch of the sector trains and the NSE trains :)
@D78stock But since when did the NLL ever go to Euston?
From Watford Junction trains went to Euston plus Broad St via either Primrose Hill or Hampstead Heath.
Nowadays changing at Highbury & Islington is the only way for passengers to get to the City, trains from here will go to Stratford as existing services to here are barely able to cope with passenger demand.
Thanks.
Have you also seen my footage from the Croxley branch and Aldwych station? Two other sections of railway which are 'no more'.
yes, it *could* have been re-opened by July 2013, alas since it is now August and the line is still only used by goods trains so obviously this has not happened! :-(
What's the person in the freight train's cab (presumably a driver) doing with their arm at 1:47? Is that a rude sign for the cameraman?
@unknownperson95 something like 40 miles wide and 35 miles north-south.
@f1baker oh I have, even did in the days of the 501's (and photographed it...)
@f1baker Well I the train seen in this film was photographed at 16:40 / 4.40pm.
Simon
To get to Primrose Hill, you now want to get the tube to Chalk Farm. I went to Primrose Hill once. It seemed like a unfamiliar faraway and distant land to me, because it's in North London and I was born in South London.
@ManiacalMessiah76 sorry, with two exceptions only as Tramlink... not when BR were running their trains at a bizarre frequency of 44 minutes.
I have a very poor super 8 view taken at a level crossing in the Merton area plus a telephoto view somewhere in Croydon of what was probably one of the trains in the Wandle Park area. Neither have been digitised.
Of course with hindsight I should have filmed all the railway lines which eventually became Tramlink - and former NLL which became DLR.
I wonder if anyone can help me here: If you go down to Primrose Hill now there are platforms that have recently worked on (various lighting fixtures and a small building) all on the Primrose Hill side of the bridge, not the Chalk Farm side where the old ticketing office was. Are they looking to reopen a station there?
Forgive my ignorance, but can it not be used by the existing Euston Watford Service?
They reopen? I hope it won't closed again also what year is it
Many people would like to see this station reopened.
This was filmed before it closed.
@@CitytransportInfoplus That's was 1992 before it closed
So why was it so disused that led to its closure?
I always wondered why network south east and their stations looked like a triumph of a fisher price toy colouring palette. Any ideas who chose those colours?
A chap by the name of Richard Sharp, apparently. See www.srpublicity.co.uk/nse/history.htm .
LOL, I know what you mean. I do not remember who chose the colours, but I do recall a major kerfuffle, because experienced railway people did not like the red colour being used in this way. They thought that it could compromise safety, as red is for danger / stop.
@@CitytransportInfoplus train drivers said a red signal stood out...until they painted the stations with all that red.
a brilliant documentation, many thanks. Primrose Hill is on the spur between Euston/Watford and the London Overground Circular. Since both have the same Operator, arguments about signal capacity are just silly. But I think it's up to Camden-Belsize Park residents to make the case for reopening, until then the politicians will sit on their hands.
When I saw Bakerloo trains parked off-line at Kilburn High Rd, I wrote to John Prescott when he was Deputy PM. I asked why not extend the Bakerloo Lone to Highbury and Islington and reopen Primrose Hill station? Another entrance could be added at Camden Lock, relieving the overcrowded Camden Town station. I got a reply from somebody that didn’t say very much. I still think it’s a good idea and very cheap.
@@patlynch9969 The N. London Line was pre-Covid already at capacity - it takes a goodly proportion of the freight traffic Essex/Suffolk ports - NorthWest. You would need two more lines (= 6) throughout and that would be VERY expensive (if indeed possible).
@@1258-Eckhart but nothing compared to HS2 which will cut Camden to pieces. Even if a service ran from Camden Rd to Queens Park with a new station at Camden Lock/Primrose Hill, it would be a great relief to public transport in the area.
@f1baker Only when travelling to / from Liverpool St stn.
1:12 - Clearly, a nasty accident waiting to happen... God help anyone underneath that sign, if the other cable had suddenly snapped (talk about hanging on by a thread, literally). I can only hope, that wasn't the case!
That aside, a good archive documentation of what must have been, a very badly run down station.
Sword of Domocles springs to mind
if it was me i would of cut the other cable and took the sign
How did a train get to Elephant and Castle? As a pax service that wouldnt be possible. That indicator board is not Primrose Hill, more likely Queens Park.
Did you film it in 1992
I knew it was about to be closed so yes, I went and filmed it - in 1992
Did they cut the Liverpool Street service? When It was going to Liverpool Street, where did it go through?
Just south of hackney downs on the greater Anglia route and between hackney central and dalston Kingsland there is a short chord called graham road curve
Built especially for Watford services to reach liverpool street and allow broad street to close
@@Keithbarber it was called Broad Street in those days.
@@patlynch9969 Broad street station stood next door to liverpool street, but they were separate stations
@@Keithbarber Broad Street had a much shorter link to the NLL than Liverpool Street - the Liverpool Street route added miles to the journey which may well have been why it was axed, plus it used an already well-used route. Without Broad Street the service didn't make sense; it was no quicker than just going to Euston and taking the Tube.
@@IndigoJo quite possibly
It maybe that British rail realised this and decided to run the service down and force away custom to allow its withdrawal - only speculation but having to go on a long circular detour via north London lines, Graham road curve, and in via bethnal green was time consuming to put it mildly
If, although unlikely, a service from Watford junction WAS ever reinstated, it could run to shoreditch high street via the old route - but that isn't even on a list of proposals to the best of my knowledge
Did trains from here really run to Broad Street and Liverpool Street? I thought they went to Euston? Wrong side of town for those two stations surely?
As far as I am aware they were on the wrong side for Euston - maybe things were different when the station was first built. Anyway, yes, to Broad Street and after that closed to Liverpool Street.
@@CitytransportInfoplus Wow, I wonder how that worked? I used to get the train from Gospel Oak to Broad Street and the other way to Richmond with my father.
Broad Street was an amazingly well used station in the early 1900s carrying city workers from the suburbs. Yes it true. The underground ultimately killed it off. Also the railway company used this link to Broad Street to get goods to and from the once thriving London Docks.
Broad Street closed in the mid 80's. The few trains that ran there ran into Liverpool Street.
For a railway fan it’s always sad to see a station closed and demolished, but realistically I don’t see much benefit of reopening it. It’s right next to Chalk Farm tube station that can take you anywhere on the tube map, including Euston for Overground to Watford, and it’s 10 minutes away from Kentish Town West on the NLL. Those who need to change between the Watford line and the NLL can do it at Willesden Junction.
I don’t think that any benefits of having this station open justify creating a more complex timetables on the Watford line and the NLL with an interdependency between them. This would mean that less trains could run between Watford and Euston and between Willesden Junction and Camden Road on the NLL. An issue on one of these lines would have a higher chance of impacting the other. And obviously there would be costs to maintain the station itself.
So actually think that its closure was justified.
You wouldnt open it in isolation. Rather as a continuation of the East London Line with the widening of the lines west of Camden Road to segregate running as much as possible. For 300m of widened viadict youd get a true N-S route across London, relieve the NLL, Euston and Bakerloo lines.
@@iman2341 that’s an interesting idea, but to be very honest I very much doubt it would be very useful to many people who aren’t hardcore rail fans.
Are you proposing to divert Overground trains from Euston towards this line? I am afraid it would be counterproductive. Most of the people who take this train need to get to the Central London, so they travel all the way to Euston and then either walk or change to the tube. The NLL/ELL won’t be an adequate replacement for this connection - I doubt that you would have many people going from Watford to Shoreditch on a all-stop service through Hackney and a change to the tube will be less convenient than at Euston.
So unless there are some very compelling argument why we need exactly this route, given that the stations on it are already well served by the existing network, I don’t want my tax money to be spent on it.
They should turn this station into the Elizabeth line
How? The Lizzie line will not go anywhere near here, and anyway, I am sorry to say that the station was allowed to fall in to such a state of disrepair that it ended up being demolished.
It's now a Yoga studio / Home Furniture shop, so I'd say that's well and truly it for Primrose Hill station lol
Unless they can come up with a different street entrance
The NWSE corporate colours for the trains and stations looked very quickly outdated.
obviously you do not know the history.. these routes have always had the same operator, right back when they were first electrified after WW1. Alas this did not stop the closure of passenger services through Primrose Hill station.
Isn't it a tube station
No - because it was not served by small profile London Underground tube trains.
Used it cos my smack dealer lived close by......thems wuz the days like.......there were rare trains from Broad St to Watford, rush hour times......
At one time Broad Street - Watford trains ran all day. Most went via Primrose Hill but some went via Hampstead Heath, switching from the North London Line to Euston - Watford line at Willesden Junction.
There were also direct trains from Broad Street to Croxley Green! Especially in the rush hours.
Nice you're alive to reminisce
@@CitytransportInfoplus very decent of you to reply to an ex smack head
This is After the refurb too😂
Signs falling
why did i just watch this :S time to leave the internet