Very good result for the Herald, and as you say, a bit iffy on the Spitfire, but no need to rush into anything major yet> nice work. Look forward to following your work on the GT 6. All the best and god luck. Bob
Glad I found your page, have just watched a couple of your herald engine rebuild videos which will come in handy. I’ve done a few rebuilds including with this engine type, but always handy to see somebody else doing one. I’m doing probably a less common engine swap - changing my midget 1500 engine for a herald 13/60 engine, on the basis that I reckon the short stroke engine must be better! It must be a bit happier revving and I believe the camshaft is hotter. Anyway, it was a £50 eBay bargain ? (Still to be confirmed) so all good fun. My 1500 engine has gone wrong twice, the first time breaking piston rings. The symptoms were the same the 2nd time so I removed the engine assuming the same had happened, however they are all ok. Symptom was no compression on cyl 4. I haven’t diagnosed the problem yet, could it have bent a valve - but if it has, it’s done it on 2 different heads! Anyway, I just got sick of that engine and wanted to change it. Was considering all sorts but then decided I’d try a spitfire / herald 1300 engine as it would be the easiest to do. Oh, I was at Ushaw show by the way, in a pretty tatty orangey coloured Midget 1500. It was a good day out.
Ah, interesting! The early 1300 engines are known as being revvier, and the earlier Spitfire engines had what’s generally considered a better cam. The 13/60 had a cam very similar to the 1500 if I remember correctly. If you give me the engine number prefix I can tell you what you’ve got though (or at least what it started out as!). What’s the weight difference between the 1300 and 1500 Midgets though? I thought part of the reason for fitting the 1500 engine was to compensate for the bumper weight? I don’t remember spotting a Midget at Ushaw, I do quite like the 1500s though, are you fairly local to that area?
@@redfoxclassics ah, maybe I won’t gain anything from the cam in that case then! Engine code is GE80132HE. Not sure on the weights, the 1275cc a series I would have thought is lighter. The bumpers weighed a lot, and I hated the look of them so I’ve binned those and fitted some mini front indicators + cheap ebay number plate lights. 😂 Yep, I live in County Durham about 15 miles south of there. I’m not too worried about power as long as the engine runs nicely I’ll be happy. Although it’s tempting to do things like a new cam while it’s out, I’ve got to remember I’m trying to do a cheap fix! I did notice it only has what feel like relatively weak single valve springs and there is no cotter / collet. The cap does the job of retaining it. I can’t use the valves from either of the 1500 heads as they are I think slightly larger. Can’t use the whole head as the combustion chamber volume will presumably be too large. I doubt would be able to skim enough off to get it to 1300 volume.
You did get a bargain then! That's the best of the 1300 engines. It has the earlier small bearing crank. It's a 13/60 engine so yeah, cam and compression ratio are a little less performant than the Spitfire equivalent, 60 BHP nominal in standard tune. (Spitfire Mk3 is 75 BHP and 9.5:1 vs 8.5:1 on the 13/60) If you choose to buy a new Spitfire Mk3 style cam you will also need cam bearings. Canley Classics might have some of their Mk3 profile regrinds on 1500 shafts still though, which should fit without cam bearings. As far as I know, all SC engines from the Herald 948 to the last Spitfires used the same valve springs. I've no idea why the collet / caps are different, except for I expect the Herald version was cheaper! The valves themselves did change though. Pretty sure on the 13/60 and Spitfire Mk3 engines though the valves were the same size. You're not too far from me then. If you need a machinist, I've had very good service from Amac in Northallerton, and know other people who have too.
@@redfoxclassics thanks for the info, that’s good to know. The engine looked like it has been sat for many years in a shed, probably removed from a rotten shell (I’m hoping, rather than removed to replace!) I haven’t stripped the block yet but I am optimistic as it turned over freely, everything else moving as it should. There doesn’t seem to be a lip at the top of the bores, and not much movement of pistons in either direction. That said, I’m going to strip it right down and take some measurements - might need to find a 13/60 manual if they are different journal sizes! Will put in some new big end and main bearings as a minimum and the new oil pump from my 1500 if that fits, if not it probably makes sense to get a new one! Good to know a local recommended engine machinist if it comes to that. There is one where I live I have used in the past, but somebody said he may not be as good as I remember 20 years ago! Ps. Should have said, the £50 included a herald gearbox so it was a massive bargain! I have no idea whether is similar to the 1500 midget gearbox or not though, might have to take mine out and check them side by side as it was making some odd noises :-(
If you search for vitessesteve you can find a load of Triumph manual scans online - the journal sizes are different than the 1500. On gearboxes, they're similar, but not similar enough for you I'm afraid. The 13/60 had a crash first gear (and the whole gear set is different), a different input shaft spline and a different output flange bolt pattern. I think it ends up being a tiny bit shorter than the single rail style you'll have in the Midget too. So while you could make it work if you really wanted, probably not worth the bother.
Wow, never broken a valve spring before, bend pushrods, had the valves hit the pistons and broke the rockers on my Spit but never a spring, is this over revs or just a weak spring . I like the string idea , some folks use compressed air ( which is fine as long as the valves dont leak I guess) . I was sure you were going to have to remove the head to get the collets in, but your method was stunning, not seen that way before. Did you ever get a response to your "does anyone have a spare engine " text?, I would not mind a spare myself, that way I can build a nice one up whilst still having use of the car ( did this with the Westy so now have a spare 1600 Xflow, lol) . Great to see what your figures were for the GE block I have a comp tester but not used it yet, be interesting then to see what a 18K car has ?....
I suspect it was reusing valve gear that had sat in someone’s shed for an unknown number of years… Though I did have an issue with my ignition switch that cut out the overdrive, and then whole engine, a couple of times before I figured it out. That probably didn’t do it much good revs wise. I’ve not found a spare engine, I think I’ll just have to cope with immobilising the Spit for a bit. Probably should just get on with that now winter is approaching.
Nice trick with the broken spring. Looking forward to GT6 and spitfire engine rebuilds now
I’m glad that worked, I really didn’t want to have to take the head off!
Very good result for the Herald, and as you say, a bit iffy on the Spitfire, but no need to rush into anything major yet> nice work. Look forward to following your work on the GT 6. All the best and god luck. Bob
Thanks Bob! GT6 is nearly here, mostly my video editing speed that's slowing things up :D
Glad I found your page, have just watched a couple of your herald engine rebuild videos which will come in handy. I’ve done a few rebuilds including with this engine type, but always handy to see somebody else doing one.
I’m doing probably a less common engine swap - changing my midget 1500 engine for a herald 13/60 engine, on the basis that I reckon the short stroke engine must be better! It must be a bit happier revving and I believe the camshaft is hotter. Anyway, it was a £50 eBay bargain ? (Still to be confirmed) so all good fun.
My 1500 engine has gone wrong twice, the first time breaking piston rings. The symptoms were the same the 2nd time so I removed the engine assuming the same had happened, however they are all ok. Symptom was no compression on cyl 4. I haven’t diagnosed the problem yet, could it have bent a valve - but if it has, it’s done it on 2 different heads!
Anyway, I just got sick of that engine and wanted to change it. Was considering all sorts but then decided I’d try a spitfire / herald 1300 engine as it would be the easiest to do.
Oh, I was at Ushaw show by the way, in a pretty tatty orangey coloured Midget 1500. It was a good day out.
Ah, interesting! The early 1300 engines are known as being revvier, and the earlier Spitfire engines had what’s generally considered a better cam. The 13/60 had a cam very similar to the 1500 if I remember correctly. If you give me the engine number prefix I can tell you what you’ve got though (or at least what it started out as!). What’s the weight difference between the 1300 and 1500 Midgets though? I thought part of the reason for fitting the 1500 engine was to compensate for the bumper weight?
I don’t remember spotting a Midget at Ushaw, I do quite like the 1500s though, are you fairly local to that area?
@@redfoxclassics ah, maybe I won’t gain anything from the cam in that case then! Engine code is GE80132HE.
Not sure on the weights, the 1275cc a series I would have thought is lighter. The bumpers weighed a lot, and I hated the look of them so I’ve binned those and fitted some mini front indicators + cheap ebay number plate lights. 😂
Yep, I live in County Durham about 15 miles south of there.
I’m not too worried about power as long as the engine runs nicely I’ll be happy. Although it’s tempting to do things like a new cam while it’s out, I’ve got to remember I’m trying to do a cheap fix!
I did notice it only has what feel like relatively weak single valve springs and there is no cotter / collet. The cap does the job of retaining it. I can’t use the valves from either of the 1500 heads as they are I think slightly larger. Can’t use the whole head as the combustion chamber volume will presumably be too large. I doubt would be able to skim enough off to get it to 1300 volume.
You did get a bargain then! That's the best of the 1300 engines. It has the earlier small bearing crank. It's a 13/60 engine so yeah, cam and compression ratio are a little less performant than the Spitfire equivalent, 60 BHP nominal in standard tune. (Spitfire Mk3 is 75 BHP and 9.5:1 vs 8.5:1 on the 13/60) If you choose to buy a new Spitfire Mk3 style cam you will also need cam bearings. Canley Classics might have some of their Mk3 profile regrinds on 1500 shafts still though, which should fit without cam bearings.
As far as I know, all SC engines from the Herald 948 to the last Spitfires used the same valve springs. I've no idea why the collet / caps are different, except for I expect the Herald version was cheaper! The valves themselves did change though. Pretty sure on the 13/60 and Spitfire Mk3 engines though the valves were the same size.
You're not too far from me then. If you need a machinist, I've had very good service from Amac in Northallerton, and know other people who have too.
@@redfoxclassics thanks for the info, that’s good to know. The engine looked like it has been sat for many years in a shed, probably removed from a rotten shell (I’m hoping, rather than removed to replace!) I haven’t stripped the block yet but I am optimistic as it turned over freely, everything else moving as it should. There doesn’t seem to be a lip at the top of the bores, and not much movement of pistons in either direction. That said, I’m going to strip it right down and take some measurements - might need to find a 13/60 manual if they are different journal sizes! Will put in some new big end and main bearings as a minimum and the new oil pump from my 1500 if that fits, if not it probably makes sense to get a new one! Good to know a local recommended engine machinist if it comes to that. There is one where I live I have used in the past, but somebody said he may not be as good as I remember 20 years ago!
Ps. Should have said, the £50 included a herald gearbox so it was a massive bargain! I have no idea whether is similar to the 1500 midget gearbox or not though, might have to take mine out and check them side by side as it was making some odd noises :-(
If you search for vitessesteve you can find a load of Triumph manual scans online - the journal sizes are different than the 1500.
On gearboxes, they're similar, but not similar enough for you I'm afraid. The 13/60 had a crash first gear (and the whole gear set is different), a different input shaft spline and a different output flange bolt pattern. I think it ends up being a tiny bit shorter than the single rail style you'll have in the Midget too. So while you could make it work if you really wanted, probably not worth the bother.
Wow, never broken a valve spring before, bend pushrods, had the valves hit the pistons and broke the rockers on my Spit but never a spring, is this over revs or just a weak spring . I like the string idea , some folks use compressed air ( which is fine as long as the valves dont leak I guess) . I was sure you were going to have to remove the head to get the collets in, but your method was stunning, not seen that way before. Did you ever get a response to your "does anyone have a spare engine " text?, I would not mind a spare myself, that way I can build a nice one up whilst still having use of the car ( did this with the Westy so now have a spare 1600 Xflow, lol) . Great to see what your figures were for the GE block I have a comp tester but not used it yet, be interesting then to see what a 18K car has ?....
I suspect it was reusing valve gear that had sat in someone’s shed for an unknown number of years… Though I did have an issue with my ignition switch that cut out the overdrive, and then whole engine, a couple of times before I figured it out. That probably didn’t do it much good revs wise. I’ve not found a spare engine, I think I’ll just have to cope with immobilising the Spit for a bit. Probably should just get on with that now winter is approaching.
What will you do with all the extra space! GT6?
Yep, finally can get on with it!