The supposed QA playtester leak has been circulated a lot, but I, and a few other prominent dataminers I've discussed it with, are all pretty skeptical of it. One of the most telling faults is that it claims Gundyr was once called Oceiros and was housed in the boss room that Oceiros is in now. It's true that Gundyr was once in that boss room, but not only is Gundyr's AI reference name "Gunda", his param data is called Gundyr, other Pus of Man enemies are referred to with _Gunda or _Gundyr in their data, and even the boss room is called the Gundyr room. This is part of what makes it seem like the leak was just going off known info, the screenshot of Gundyr in the boss room, and then fabricating something that they thought made sense, the supposed name change. The verifiable information included in the leak is all things that had been shown by dataminers like myself or Lance before the leak was published, but nothing new it put forward seems to have anything backing it up.
@@Garl_Vinland It's just one of several things about the leak that don't make sense. The development history of Dark Souls III was very much assets first, story later. The idea these significant story and name changes were being done partway through doesn't match up with the timeline. One other particularly suspicious aspect of the leak is that, not only have none of its major claims been confirmed to be true, several major discoveries have been made that the leak didn't include. You'd think, if it were legitimate, it would have mentioned any of several other verifiable things that were found after it was published. It also claims Oceiros was added late in development, but Lance has confirmed he's even in early alpha builds.
@@ZullietheWitch Could it be that the Gundyr was always going to be the king, and Oceiros was later changed to be the king of Lothric? It makes more sense for the Boss room to be called Gundyr that way. So instead of names being swapped around, it is the boss wholesale?
I, legitimately, did not realize these were giant versions of the Batwing Demon until you made the direct comparison. I just thought they were generic demons! Makes sense that the gate to the oldest town is blocked by the oldest guardians of said gate.
I don't know that it makes that much sense- presumably they lived in Izalith for most of their existence before Lorian fought them. They ended up in the Dreg Heap because a lot of things ended up in the Dreg Heap.
Wait! I thought they were the last two demons. Isn't that why one of them turns into the demon prince? But then right after the boss fight, little bat demons carry you off to the ringed city.
@@gunide Well, either the whole "last demon" thing wasn't true or the bat demons aren't actually demons. The latter makes more sense to me as they don't seem to be affected by the waning chaos flame like the other demons. I kinda wonder if what we're seeing is actually that the 2 bat demons Lorian fought died and returned as unkindled ones. It also makes Lorian's story more ironic/pathetic. Dude fought some regular old bat demons and barely lived to talk about it. Then they came back as bad ass bosses who he wouldn't have stood a chance against. Who knows, seems like there's a lot of conflicting narratives there. Good job catching that.
I always thought it was weird how the Old Demon King fight, representing the last of the great demons, was introduced with so little fanfare, even before the main demon ruins area. And it also seemed weird that, after this battle against the king, which is clearly supposed to represent the 'end' of the demons as a threat, you just find some more demons in the dlc. So if your telling me you were supposed to fight the Bat Demon first, then progress through the Ruins and finally face the King, that would make a lot more sense to me.
Pretty sure the Demon Prince is technically dead already by the events of Dark Souls 3. Its stated by the description of Lorian’s sword that prince Lorian killed it. I’m pretty sure the only reason we fight it at the end of the Dreg Heap is because the fading of the fire has made time and space convoluted.
Well as far as the "end of demons", from the lore as I understand it the Demon King was the last original demon. He was the last one to have been born from the original Chaos flame and the last to remember how it burned. All others were derived from other sources, presumably through either reawakenings of the chaos like we see in DS2 or perhaps through the reckless pursuit of Pyromancy. Either way, he was the end of the old demons, but a few would exist beyond him. The two demons you fight in the DLC are the true final throes of the demon race. My understanding is that the title of "demon prince" is analogous to "lord of cinder" in that any individual demon with enough power could inherit the lingering chaos flame of demonkind and use it as their strength. By killing the demon prince, we finally end the demon's cycle of flame and in turn end their world, much like how in the Ringed City DLC we end the illusion holding the city in place and see the true end of our own world, beyond the endless linking, seeing a world made only of ash and the vague memories of times gone by.
Whether it was real or not, how cool would it have been to aim the ballista to shoot down a demon flying around the Smoldering Lake, that would be dope. Knocking it down could potentially trigger a boss fight with it, reminiscent to Gough shooting down Kalameet in DS1.
@@ronniewhitedx ds1 boss room design was awesome. Undead asylum really nailed it, being able to see not only the asylum demon but the trapped demon right off the bat looming/marching around was awesome
While very cool, it would have made the fight be very gimmicky, in short instead of having the cool, life draining, hard boss fight we have noww, you would've got a version that would most likely be like the one from Demon's souls
It always felt to me that the dreg heap area from the ringed city, was comprised of ideas they wanted to do in the base game but was cut for time. The fact that the kiln of the first flame in vanilla is just a few warp points (complete with an excessive amount of bonfires for an area you don’t fight any enemies in) and a short walk to the boss arena. The idea of traveling through the ruins of the eras to get back to the ruins of ds1’s fire link shrine always felt like it would have been more appropriate for the main game than the dlc.
To be fair, the dreg heap is basically a bunch of thrown together stuff from various times, making the implementation of cut content and abandoned ideas pretty fitting actually.
I always figured that the events of the ringed city are in the same time frame as the soul of cinder fight, even farther into the future than the rest of the game (with the firekeeper's ritual moving you forwards in time)
@@TheStraightestWhitest I kind of feel the same for the Lothric castle theme. Originally there used to be constant music. It could’ve been like in botw where the entire game is quite but then the finale is loud and epic. The unused castle ost also has a soul of cinder leitmotif so that would be even more fitting (I always felt like the SoC theme was kind of random)
@Michael Smith bc fromsoft makes good games despite their tight deadlines. Look at ds2, Most companies would fold if they had a year to make a game and they had to scrap it half way through.
I always thought it was awesome how their fight took place in the remnants of the Fire Link Shrine. Perhaps the Demon Prince represents an attempt of Demonkind to utilize the First Flame for themselves, since their species was already well into decline. That might also help explain why Prince Lorian had to battle him, to preserve the first flame for Lothric. Edit: just another thought I had was that the Demon Prince himself even appears like an "embered" form of the twin demons, so maybe there's something to that as well.
The demons did rely on the chaos flame to stay alive. It makes sense to assume that one would get the idea of using the first flame to fuel their species after the Witch of Izalith's death. I'm sure all the followers of Gywn did not take kindly to a potential usurper. Nice observation.
@@gosucab944 while yes, freide did do it before him, I still think the prince's resurrection is just cooler overall as he erupts into flames with that menacing screem that echos through the arena.
@@TheDungeonDive Ds 3 really over used that didn't it. The first time is cool. The seventh time it feels like the game is stretching out the fight for the sake of stretching it out.
@@shinysnivy6604 Speak for yourself, I think DS3's second phases made the fights feel really dynamic and unique, even if they didn't change much in the fight. The Pilgrim Butterflies in Dragonslayer Armour's fight, for example, made the second phase feel so much more climactic and intense than if you just fought the DS Armor the same way the whole fight.
This is why I love when games get DLC's. Because there's a chance that they'll reintroduce previously cut content that they couldn't add in due to time constraints.
This fight remains my favourite fight in the entire Soulsborne series. The music, the location, the fkin transformation into a Balrog of Mordor. What an amazing introduction into the last DLC
Zullie, do you know if there are bosses in DS1 who have being-plunging-attacked animations who could not normally be plunging attacked since there's no high point in their arena?
Not including the big crossbow in a bossfight is another understandable change. The demons have suffered enough, they don't deserve to get the Pursuer treatment on top of everything else. Heh.
It probably would of been more similar to Kalameet if I had to guess. Wings and ranged attacks essentially win you a fight if your foe can't force you to land. Idk why the drakes land to be honest. Maybe they can't fly for long? Seems unlikely.
@@SpotterOtter it would have been much cooler to be able to actually use the ballista after all the work it takes to get up there, instead of just pressing the off button. I doubt anyone would want to deal with *both* a flying demon bombing you with fireballs and a ballista at the same time, though
@@moonlightning8269 Once you run across the field the ballista is unable to shoot you. The land where the ballista is placed does seem like it would have something land there to attack you so maybe it would defend the ballista to keep you from shooting it.
I loved the fight with the Demon Prince and his retinue in 3. It was a fun challenge to overcome to FINALLY get to this beautiful sunlit ringed city, and the soundtrack piece worked so well for the fight too.
The Great Bat is almost certainly a reference to the Crimson Bat in Glorantha, a giant monster used by the Lunar Empire to defeat armies, with the ability to eat souls. We know Miyazaki has some knowledge of Glorantha, through the old Dragon Pass boardgame he keeps in his office.
I mean it's a skippable zone within an optionnal zone as you can just go right off to the Demon Kings arena and skip everything else if you don't play as a pyromancer as you need to get the tome of Izalith and Quelana
Same here Demon Prince and Gael are the hardest bosses for me I think partially because they both have large health bars so just simply spending more time in the fight makes me more liable to make mistakes.
Reminds me when I did a Chaos play-through and had to fight the Demon Prince, literally was almost impossible lmfao And yes, Old Demon King was hard too, but no where near as bad 😂
yep. I think It would be the only interesting theme in this game, but this dumbass miyazaki just threw it away, the most fitting theme from the game just to put another generic ds3 soundtrack that brings nothing new to the table
@@waltersullivan2727 yeah, maybe its very epic, but aren't all of the ds3's soundtracks like that? Epic choirs and Orchestra. No storytelling, no emotions. When I listened to Crimson bat ost while fighting demon prince I really felt like killing the last remaining demon in the world, destroying the whole species that wanted no more than peace. That is very good storytelling. But why Brother when you can make epic orchiestra music with choirs for the 50th time, right? Look at the Ds1 soundtrack and how they handled the music. Every ost is different and tells different story
@@faraam7111 No story telling no emotion? You listen to Abyss Watchers or Twin Princess OST and tell me you don’t get emotion out of that? Crimson Bat OST isn’t bad at all but I just think Demon Prince fits better. That transition from phase 1 to Phase 2 is a gradual bellow. Coupled with the Demon Prince rising from the ashes fits very well. The theme also low-key gives me Demon of Hatred vibes which I love. “Wanted no more than peace” thats a stretch lol
@@timelessdust3001 no, like he just said, twin demons where do you come out of nowhere "really not Gael or pontiff?" Derp Derp. Did anywhere in his comment he type Gael or pontiff? He clearly clearly clearly said twin demon no one care about your favorites cause no one asked. So dont go pushing your favorites "no Gael or pontiff Derp?" Really you mean your favorite isn't dancer or yhorm? I mean really who likes pontiff? Easier than most bosses in the game easier to parry than Iudex gundyr. Next time domt comment
I absolutely love behind-the-scenes stuff like this. It's just so fascinating to see the devs thoughts and plans and ideas evidenced by half-finished or semi-deleted content like this. Keep up the great work, Zullie!
This was way more enlightening for me than I thought it'd be, since I've always been interested in the cut Great Bat ever since the cut music tracks were discovered and one was theorized to be the Bat's theme Excellent work as always, Zullie! :>
Zullie you are the best current content creator for anything Souls related! Hell, you're my favorite content creator in general right now. Thank you for the consistency! I look forward to your upload time daily
I actually really like that they completed cut content, refined it, and put in DLC--think of all the times we saw cut content that we all wished was finished and in the game! FROM has a history of quality and making things worth the price, so I'm completely fine with this.
i sure did pick a weirdly perfect time to go back through all the Soulsbornes this last year. so SO many relevant videos popping up at the perfect time. like i JUST got done beating the Demon Prince early about 2 days ago and now this video pops up. and to think all started because of you and Illusory Wall's videos that made me just want to go back and play all 4 of the games and ive mostly had a blast. i say mostly as im getting at least 1 of every item in the games and DS1 is FAR easier to do that in compared to DS2 & 3 as those 2 have either abysmal drop rates for very specific covenant items or have online required to even get the items. im still trying to figure something out for DS3's "concord well kept" item, but thankfully i got some help easily for DS2's absurd requirement for 2 certain rings.
Uploaded less than 10 mins ago and already has almost 3k views! It’s great to see your channel really taking off Zullie, you have most certainly put in the work and make consistently engaging and thought provoking videos. What an amazing asset to the Souls community you have created with your work! Absolutely crushing it.
Even if it's fake it would have made a lot of sense to get to the ballista to access the Bat fight, similar to Kalameet in DS1. I always felt like the Lake made no sense, as you have to progress through this enormous maze just to get to the top of the mountain and then... nothing. There's nothing there. The only thing you can do is disable the ballista, which makes zero sense since it only shoots an area you have thoroughly explored by then. Now, if you are presented with the boss room first BUT you need to get to the ballista to actually get into the fight... now that would make a lot more sense. I remember how I didn't even go to the Demon ruins in my first playthrough because I didn't even find it. I got to the lake, found the fog wall, fought the boss and upon seeing there was no clear place to continue I just teleported out.
@Zullie the Witch Very intriguing how you educate us on this legendary games development and secrets! It's like watching the in between moments of an art piece being drawn and I love it!!! Please keep it up!!! *Bows*
No need to take screenshots of the video, I have something much better: twitter.com/ZullieTheWitch/status/1466663349312102400 twitter.com/ZullieTheWitch/status/1466664962881953794
it having it´s brains out is kind of graphic for some reason I realized ingame that it´s head must be damaged due to the flaps hanging down from it but I never noticed that the skull is just open like that
the shit you find just for the hell of it blow my mind, idk if you'll ever see this but every time i come home drunk I watch like 20 of your videos and just gawk at how much went into these games truly youre a madman but this world is better for you being here k thanx
Huh...man that would make the Demon Prince model pretty old, wouldn't it? The DLC came out some time later, the Ringed City DLC later still. It's really cool that Fromsoftware uses stuff like that, and yet magically makes it fit the scenario they have it in.
Kalameet, Chester and Artorias had concept art long before Dark Souls 1 even came out. They worked them out in the DLC. Brume Tower DLC in Dark Souls 2 used a lot of assets or ideas from the early version of Iron Keep. And yeah the Bat Demon was earlier than the DLC. A lot of armors that were in the DLC were already existing in the files in Dark Souls 3 before they were released. Unfortunately the coolest one called the Burial Knight set was never released
It's weird because the "shooting down the bat" idea almost seems plausible. It would explain why the boss room is just kind of right there, accessible just by crossing the lake section without needing to properly traverse the bulk of the level. If one needed to get all the way to the ballista to shoot the bat out of the sky, causing it to land in its boss room a-la Kalameet, that would kind of tie it all together. Alas, I guess it was just a well thought out lie.
I'd love if Zullie did a video like this for the cut bosses of Bloodborne too. I know they've been revealed already but i'd love more info on like The Great One Beast for example. This video completely intrigued me :D
Gotta be one my favorite fights in that entire game. Gank boss done right. Also sidenote, the music in this video is very unsettling and I kinda want to cry now because of it, but like.. in a good way
I just recently played through DS3 for the second time, this time with a guide and my experience was much less negative than the first time, so the timing for this one is perfect for me.
It's a shame the demons got shafted in terms of representation in all three games. Given how berserk heavy the souls universe is you would have thought demons would have had a bigger impact, especially with the civil war of demons vs Gwyn, Chaos vs Light
The story of the demons in all 3 games is being shafted. In the first game, they’ve been beaten down by Gwyn. Then a random undead comes along and destroys their birth flame, leaving them in permanent decline. In 2, you kill one of their kings. Then in 3, the Ashen One comes along and murders the last of their race. At no point are they really a large scale threat.
@@Fireclaws10 to be honest it us implied that the war with the demons is what started the decline of the age of fire. Gwyn may have ended up winning but the huge losses inflicted upon his forces led to the weakening of his age, the rise of the undead curse and power of the dark souls emerging. Which led Gwyn sacrifice himself in order to preserve the age of fire.
You do know The age of fire was in decline even bafore the demons got to exist right? they were created by a failed attempt to recreate the first flame by the Witch of Izalith known as chaos flame which all the demons share
Always thought the smouldering lake wand demon ruins were not enough impressive. The idea of adding the crimson bat as a mid boss of the area would've been beautiful
I also had seen that Carthus Sandworm & Crimson Bat were originally going to be a duo boss fight according to healthbars indication (I think @AesirAesthetics said that)
one thing I really dislike about ds3 is that you can't see things super easy due to the excess of details. I had no idea these were essentially large batwing demons. that makes you wonder what kind of relation demon royalty had with the gods of anor londo.
I saw one theory that the Batwings that take you down to the Undead Settlement were enslaved when Lorian slew the original Demon Prince. Sounds plausible to me. There's the question though of just how intelligent Demons are; they can be entrusted with tasks that they will carry out faithfully, like serving as prison guards, gatekeepers, and transportation, they can train and command dogs, and they can carve weapons from the bones of their kin. Are they mindless killing machines of all but their own kind if left to their own devices, and if not why did Gwyn wage war on them? Did the Batwings choose to serve Anor Londo and Lothric, or were they coerced into doing so?
@@jadenkarpoff9158 the chaos demons are 100% as intelligent as any human, god, dragon, or giant. they have culture, tombs, priests, cities, royalty, and are considered a faction capable of taking part in a war. chances are most don't speak the common language in the dark souls universe. you need a ring to speak with the fair lady, and that's about the only instance of one speaking. and considering the chaos witches were the origin of the demons, it's likely they share the same tongue.
@@gilvanneto5772 yeah, but they're also very unique demons considering the rest we see. they resemble something you'd expect to find more in dark souls 2, not the chaos demons of isalith. I wonder if there's a reason, or if they're just... idk, cleaned up? the fact that the demon princes have flame attacks still, I'd say the later is likely. but it also could be that they were enslaved in particular because they were demon nobility or something. sort of a statement to the rest of the demons if that makes senese.
I either never noticed or had forgotten that the Old Demon King's room is full of petrified dead demons. Tis a cool detail. From loves its piles of petrified/burned corpses melded together. They even make some enemies out of them.
![[ไฮไลต์] มวยสากลฯหญิง รุ่น 66kg จันทร์แจ่ม สุวรรณเพ็ง ไทย vs แอลจีเรีย รอบรองชนะเลิศ | โอลิมปิก 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nt71uhZjn6Y/mqdefault.jpg)
The supposed QA playtester leak has been circulated a lot, but I, and a few other prominent dataminers I've discussed it with, are all pretty skeptical of it. One of the most telling faults is that it claims Gundyr was once called Oceiros and was housed in the boss room that Oceiros is in now. It's true that Gundyr was once in that boss room, but not only is Gundyr's AI reference name "Gunda", his param data is called Gundyr, other Pus of Man enemies are referred to with _Gunda or _Gundyr in their data, and even the boss room is called the Gundyr room. This is part of what makes it seem like the leak was just going off known info, the screenshot of Gundyr in the boss room, and then fabricating something that they thought made sense, the supposed name change. The verifiable information included in the leak is all things that had been shown by dataminers like myself or Lance before the leak was published, but nothing new it put forward seems to have anything backing it up.
You can’t base the complete story off of data mined names though. The developers can change a name at any time.
@@Garl_Vinland It's just one of several things about the leak that don't make sense. The development history of Dark Souls III was very much assets first, story later. The idea these significant story and name changes were being done partway through doesn't match up with the timeline. One other particularly suspicious aspect of the leak is that, not only have none of its major claims been confirmed to be true, several major discoveries have been made that the leak didn't include. You'd think, if it were legitimate, it would have mentioned any of several other verifiable things that were found after it was published. It also claims Oceiros was added late in development, but Lance has confirmed he's even in early alpha builds.
Is it true that the Carthus Sandworm was going to be part of the boss fight too or is that fiction as well?
@@ZullietheWitch Could it be that the Gundyr was always going to be the king, and Oceiros was later changed to be the king of Lothric? It makes more sense for the Boss room to be called Gundyr that way. So instead of names being swapped around, it is the boss wholesale?
Interesting... 🤔
I, legitimately, did not realize these were giant versions of the Batwing Demon until you made the direct comparison. I just thought they were generic demons! Makes sense that the gate to the oldest town is blocked by the oldest guardians of said gate.
Ikr idk how I never connected the two. Maybe because these ones are more prominently bat looking compared to the lesser demons.
@@Jormyyy probably because they are keep moving so it’s easy to miss this detail
I don't know that it makes that much sense- presumably they lived in Izalith for most of their existence before Lorian fought them. They ended up in the Dreg Heap because a lot of things ended up in the Dreg Heap.
Wait! I thought they were the last two demons. Isn't that why one of them turns into the demon prince? But then right after the boss fight, little bat demons carry you off to the ringed city.
@@gunide Well, either the whole "last demon" thing wasn't true or the bat demons aren't actually demons.
The latter makes more sense to me as they don't seem to be affected by the waning chaos flame like the other demons.
I kinda wonder if what we're seeing is actually that the 2 bat demons Lorian fought died and returned as unkindled ones.
It also makes Lorian's story more ironic/pathetic. Dude fought some regular old bat demons and barely lived to talk about it. Then they came back as bad ass bosses who he wouldn't have stood a chance against.
Who knows, seems like there's a lot of conflicting narratives there. Good job catching that.
I always thought it was weird how the Old Demon King fight, representing the last of the great demons, was introduced with so little fanfare, even before the main demon ruins area. And it also seemed weird that, after this battle against the king, which is clearly supposed to represent the 'end' of the demons as a threat, you just find some more demons in the dlc. So if your telling me you were supposed to fight the Bat Demon first, then progress through the Ruins and finally face the King, that would make a lot more sense to me.
If you faced the king first and conversely fought the prince at a lower level, it would of mirrored the fight with Oceiros and later the Twin Princes
Pretty sure the Demon Prince is technically dead already by the events of Dark Souls 3. Its stated by the description of Lorian’s sword that prince Lorian killed it. I’m pretty sure the only reason we fight it at the end of the Dreg Heap is because the fading of the fire has made time and space convoluted.
@@elijahcafazzo-joyette8226 i thought the demon prince would awaken to revive the demon species on the last demon... Until we killed It of course
Well as far as the "end of demons", from the lore as I understand it the Demon King was the last original demon. He was the last one to have been born from the original Chaos flame and the last to remember how it burned. All others were derived from other sources, presumably through either reawakenings of the chaos like we see in DS2 or perhaps through the reckless pursuit of Pyromancy. Either way, he was the end of the old demons, but a few would exist beyond him. The two demons you fight in the DLC are the true final throes of the demon race. My understanding is that the title of "demon prince" is analogous to "lord of cinder" in that any individual demon with enough power could inherit the lingering chaos flame of demonkind and use it as their strength. By killing the demon prince, we finally end the demon's cycle of flame and in turn end their world, much like how in the Ringed City DLC we end the illusion holding the city in place and see the true end of our own world, beyond the endless linking, seeing a world made only of ash and the vague memories of times gone by.
It's the same with Dragons "Oh, they're a extinct race! This is definitely last of them!" and then every game proceeds on creating more of them.
Whether it was real or not, how cool would it have been to aim the ballista to shoot down a demon flying around the Smoldering Lake, that would be dope. Knocking it down could potentially trigger a boss fight with it, reminiscent to Gough shooting down Kalameet in DS1.
There needs to be more really cool boss triggers like the one you just mentioned in dark souls games going forward.
@@ronniewhitedx ds1 boss room design was awesome. Undead asylum really nailed it, being able to see not only the asylum demon but the trapped demon right off the bat looming/marching around was awesome
That's actually a really cool idea that I wish we got
*Euron Greyjoy has entered the chat*
While very cool, it would have made the fight be very gimmicky, in short instead of having the cool, life draining, hard boss fight we have noww, you would've got a version that would most likely be like the one from Demon's souls
It always felt to me that the dreg heap area from the ringed city, was comprised of ideas they wanted to do in the base game but was cut for time. The fact that the kiln of the first flame in vanilla is just a few warp points (complete with an excessive amount of bonfires for an area you don’t fight any enemies in) and a short walk to the boss arena. The idea of traveling through the ruins of the eras to get back to the ruins of ds1’s fire link shrine always felt like it would have been more appropriate for the main game than the dlc.
To be fair, the dreg heap is basically a bunch of thrown together stuff from various times, making the implementation of cut content and abandoned ideas pretty fitting actually.
I never realised this before but it makes so much sense. If we actually got this for the end of the vanilla game, that would have been incredible.
I always figured that the events of the ringed city are in the same time frame as the soul of cinder fight, even farther into the future than the rest of the game (with the firekeeper's ritual moving you forwards in time)
@@ENCHANTMEN_ In the Dreg Heap everything is warped and played around so i would assume time is aswell
@@larrytotter5790 and pretty simplistic “oh what if it’s just land of the lost and we can make another ruined map”
The unused OST for the crimson bat is one of the most beautiful in the entire game. It’s worth listening to.
@@TheStraightestWhitest I kind of feel the same for the Lothric castle theme. Originally there used to be constant music. It could’ve been like in botw where the entire game is quite but then the finale is loud and epic. The unused castle ost also has a soul of cinder leitmotif so that would be even more fitting (I always felt like the SoC theme was kind of random)
Just like running a D&D campaign! "Reuse" the stuff the players never got to see in the first place
More like Fromsoft doesn't give up on ideas they thought were really good, but just didn't work at first.
@@brant_alan More like Dark Souls 3 was dramatically unfinished and they had to shift stuff they couldn't deliver on time back to the DLC.
@@singami465 so like the entery fromsoft history XD
@Michael Smith bc fromsoft makes good games despite their tight deadlines. Look at ds2, Most companies would fold if they had a year to make a game and they had to scrap it half way through.
@Michael Smith Final products are ususally still great in FS's case. Typically an "unfinished" game is clunky and bad.
I always thought it was awesome how their fight took place in the remnants of the Fire Link Shrine. Perhaps the Demon Prince represents an attempt of Demonkind to utilize the First Flame for themselves, since their species was already well into decline. That might also help explain why Prince Lorian had to battle him, to preserve the first flame for Lothric.
Edit: just another thought I had was that the Demon Prince himself even appears like an "embered" form of the twin demons, so maybe there's something to that as well.
The demons did rely on the chaos flame to stay alive. It makes sense to assume that one would get the idea of using the first flame to fuel their species after the Witch of Izalith's death. I'm sure all the followers of Gywn did not take kindly to a potential usurper. Nice observation.
So basically in the DLC we were fighting for a piece of the fire, and we can assume those two demon's were on a mission for the dark soul?
@@felipecosta-kv2fx provavelmente sim
@@felipecosta-kv2fx probably not the dark soul but instead any remnant of the first flame to be found there.
@@violentvioletthesnek7448 ... Isn't that the dark soul? Isn't the dark soul from the First flame?
The resurrection of the demon prince in phase two has got to be one of the biggest "oh shit!" moments in the entire game. It just looks so cool.
By that time in the series, I just expected every boss to have a bullshit 2nd/3rd phase.
I'd say yes if friede didn't do it as the boss just before him.
@@gosucab944 while yes, freide did do it before him, I still think the prince's resurrection is just cooler overall as he erupts into flames with that menacing screem that echos through the arena.
@@TheDungeonDive Ds 3 really over used that didn't it. The first time is cool. The seventh time it feels like the game is stretching out the fight for the sake of stretching it out.
@@shinysnivy6604 Speak for yourself, I think DS3's second phases made the fights feel really dynamic and unique, even if they didn't change much in the fight. The Pilgrim Butterflies in Dragonslayer Armour's fight, for example, made the second phase feel so much more climactic and intense than if you just fought the DS Armor the same way the whole fight.
This is why I love when games get DLC's. Because there's a chance that they'll reintroduce previously cut content that they couldn't add in due to time constraints.
Yeah honestly I'm all for it, being able to see complete and polished versions of what we didn't get at first.
This fight remains my favourite fight in the entire Soulsborne series. The music, the location, the fkin transformation into a Balrog of Mordor. What an amazing introduction into the last DLC
Plus the feeling of absolute power when you defeat 3 demons alone in one fight. Best DLC boss
It's also my favourite, they look so cool and the fight is fun
Zullie, do you know if there are bosses in DS1 who have being-plunging-attacked animations who could not normally be plunging attacked since there's no high point in their arena?
well the demon firesage can be plunge attacked (not in a regular playthrough) and i guess that it is the same for the second asylum demon
Sounds like you might be referencing it directly but just in case, the demon firesage fits this
@@jeanpleurezz3381 I mean in PC PTDE it is TECHNICALLY possible in a playthrough using demon ruins skip...
I'd love to plunge the stupid Capra Demon. Feck that guy.
@@midnght9914 You can, just no special animation. Still good damage though.
The image of one of the demons standing over the Batwing demon looks like it should be a holiday card
seasons' greasons!
Not including the big crossbow in a bossfight is another understandable change.
The demons have suffered enough, they don't deserve to get the Pursuer treatment on top of everything else.
Heh.
you're just glad you didn't have to get anywhere close to one of the biggest cliffs in the game.
It probably would of been more similar to Kalameet if I had to guess. Wings and ranged attacks essentially win you a fight if your foe can't force you to land. Idk why the drakes land to be honest. Maybe they can't fly for long? Seems unlikely.
@@SpotterOtter it would have been much cooler to be able to actually use the ballista after all the work it takes to get up there, instead of just pressing the off button.
I doubt anyone would want to deal with *both* a flying demon bombing you with fireballs and a ballista at the same time, though
@@moonlightning8269 Once you run across the field the ballista is unable to shoot you. The land where the ballista is placed does seem like it would have something land there to attack you so maybe it would defend the ballista to keep you from shooting it.
I loved the fight with the Demon Prince and his retinue in 3. It was a fun challenge to overcome to FINALLY get to this beautiful sunlit ringed city, and the soundtrack piece worked so well for the fight too.
The Great Bat is almost certainly a reference to the Crimson Bat in Glorantha, a giant monster used by the Lunar Empire to defeat armies, with the ability to eat souls. We know Miyazaki has some knowledge of Glorantha, through the old Dragon Pass boardgame he keeps in his office.
The “death rune” mentioned in the latest Elden Ring story trailer is also a reference to Glorantha.
The Gru in DS3 are also a direct reference to the Broo. who are often mis-shapen livestock-men.
Dank. Cheers for the reference.
Much like Quelaag, Cragspider, and the unused Jar Eel boss, which are also Glorantha/Dragon’s Pass/Runequest references
Man I didn’t realize how much the Goron mines theme from twilight princess set me on edge
0:48 asserting dominance
Zullie: 'What do you do with a boss that isn't finished?'
My brain: *'FINISH HIM!!'*
It is always interesting to see hints of what Demon Ruins was supposed to be. It always felt so unfinished.
I mean it's a skippable zone within an optionnal zone as you can just go right off to the Demon Kings arena and skip everything else if you don't play as a pyromancer as you need to get the tome of Izalith and Quelana
I have more trouble with the Demon Prince than I do with Freide or Midir lmao
Same here Demon Prince and Gael are the hardest bosses for me I think partially because they both have large health bars so just simply spending more time in the fight makes me more liable to make mistakes.
Reminds me when I did a Chaos play-through and had to fight the Demon Prince, literally was almost impossible lmfao
And yes, Old Demon King was hard too, but no where near as bad 😂
Demon Prince on SL1 changes a man.
@@manvslife271 For worse
@@TheCrispyTwinkies Boulder heave for the win lmao
In addition to this I highly recommend listening to the unused Crimson Bat OST its absolutely beautiful
yep. I think It would be the only interesting theme in this game, but this dumbass miyazaki just threw it away, the most fitting theme from the game just to put another generic ds3 soundtrack that brings nothing new to the table
@@faraam7111 Bro you good? It’s just a video game but you’re wrong anyways that phase 2 especially slaps hard for Demon Prince.
@@waltersullivan2727 yeah, maybe its very epic, but aren't all of the ds3's soundtracks like that? Epic choirs and Orchestra. No storytelling, no emotions. When I listened to Crimson bat ost while fighting demon prince I really felt like killing the last remaining demon in the world, destroying the whole species that wanted no more than peace. That is very good storytelling. But why Brother when you can make epic orchiestra music with choirs for the 50th time, right? Look at the Ds1 soundtrack and how they handled the music. Every ost is different and tells different story
@@faraam7111 No story telling no emotion? You listen to Abyss Watchers or Twin Princess OST and tell me you don’t get emotion out of that? Crimson Bat OST isn’t bad at all but I just think Demon Prince fits better.
That transition from phase 1 to Phase 2 is a gradual bellow. Coupled with the Demon Prince rising from the ashes fits very well. The theme also low-key gives me Demon of Hatred vibes which I love.
“Wanted no more than peace” thats a stretch lol
@@waltersullivan2727 okay, watchers and princess soundtracks contain a storytelling, but still, those are exeptions and not a rule
Man a boss at the bottom of smouldering lake would have made that area feel much fuller
Instead we got hell crabs, big worm and infinite ammo turret makes me sad.
@@leanbean8962 Yeah, an area that I think feels a bit unfinished. But, with that the video makes a lot of sense lol
The twin's demons fight is honestly my favorite in the whole game.
Really? Not gael or pontiff?
@@timelessdust3001 no, like he just said, twin demons where do you come out of nowhere "really not Gael or pontiff?" Derp Derp. Did anywhere in his comment he type Gael or pontiff? He clearly clearly clearly said twin demon no one care about your favorites cause no one asked. So dont go pushing your favorites "no Gael or pontiff Derp?"
Really you mean your favorite isn't dancer or yhorm?
I mean really who likes pontiff? Easier than most bosses in the game easier to parry than Iudex gundyr. Next time domt comment
@@ramrodbldm9876 Jesus dude calm down haha, his comment was uncalled for but he was just tryna start discussion not a flame war
It's impossible to decide on a single favorite, but the Demon Prince is definitely in the top three for me!
@@ramrodbldm9876 holy moly man, calm down imagine being this insecure over something on the internet
I.... I never made the connection between the Princes and Batwing demons
I love your choice of music for these videos, it fits so well and it's awesome hearing some of these soundtracks again!
I see a lot of similarities to one or several of God Hand from Berserk
I absolutely love behind-the-scenes stuff like this. It's just so fascinating to see the devs thoughts and plans and ideas evidenced by half-finished or semi-deleted content like this. Keep up the great work, Zullie!
Okay never noticed the brain eye bit. That ties its design better with those batwing demons. I appreciate common design decisions like this.
This was way more enlightening for me than I thought it'd be, since I've always been interested in the cut Great Bat ever since the cut music tracks were discovered and one was theorized to be the Bat's theme
Excellent work as always, Zullie! :>
I love this boss fight so much. The sound design is brilliant, especially with how they scream.
Zullie you are the best current content creator for anything Souls related! Hell, you're my favorite content creator in general right now.
Thank you for the consistency! I look forward to your upload time daily
This makes a lot of sense as the other 2 optional parts of DS3 both have 2 bosses in them, oceiros and gundyr 2, and wyvern and nameless
I actually really like that they completed cut content, refined it, and put in DLC--think of all the times we saw cut content that we all wished was finished and in the game! FROM has a history of quality and making things worth the price, so I'm completely fine with this.
ahh i can never get enough of these videos on cut content! it fascinates me to no end
i sure did pick a weirdly perfect time to go back through all the Soulsbornes this last year. so SO many relevant videos popping up at the perfect time. like i JUST got done beating the Demon Prince early about 2 days ago and now this video pops up.
and to think all started because of you and Illusory Wall's videos that made me just want to go back and play all 4 of the games and ive mostly had a blast. i say mostly as im getting at least 1 of every item in the games and DS1 is FAR easier to do that in compared to DS2 & 3 as those 2 have either abysmal drop rates for very specific covenant items or have online required to even get the items.
im still trying to figure something out for DS3's "concord well kept" item, but thankfully i got some help easily for DS2's absurd requirement for 2 certain rings.
Uploaded less than 10 mins ago and already has almost 3k views! It’s great to see your channel really taking off Zullie, you have most certainly put in the work and make consistently engaging and thought provoking videos. What an amazing asset to the Souls community you have created with your work! Absolutely crushing it.
I love the way you present these little tidbits of info!
Even if it's fake it would have made a lot of sense to get to the ballista to access the Bat fight, similar to Kalameet in DS1. I always felt like the Lake made no sense, as you have to progress through this enormous maze just to get to the top of the mountain and then... nothing. There's nothing there. The only thing you can do is disable the ballista, which makes zero sense since it only shoots an area you have thoroughly explored by then.
Now, if you are presented with the boss room first BUT you need to get to the ballista to actually get into the fight... now that would make a lot more sense. I remember how I didn't even go to the Demon ruins in my first playthrough because I didn't even find it. I got to the lake, found the fog wall, fought the boss and upon seeing there was no clear place to continue I just teleported out.
Demon Princes are among my favourite fights, the atmosphere of the fight as well as the difficulty make it a 10/10
You’re the greatest souls TH-camr out there, thank you for uploading so frequently
@Zullie the Witch Very intriguing how you educate us on this legendary games development and secrets! It's like watching the in between moments of an art piece being drawn and I love it!!! Please keep it up!!! *Bows*
I love the zeldas soundtrack (both ww and tp) and u make then fit very well
0:54 I screenshoted that moment, the vibes are imaculate
No need to take screenshots of the video, I have something much better:
twitter.com/ZullieTheWitch/status/1466663349312102400
twitter.com/ZullieTheWitch/status/1466664962881953794
@@ZullietheWitch thanks, it does look better there
The music use for these videos is always on point
it having it´s brains out is kind of graphic for some reason
I realized ingame that it´s head must be damaged due to the flaps hanging down from it but I never noticed that the skull is just open like that
That music made this video weirdly unsettling in a way, it kinda felt like a liminal space video
i can finally sleep knowing these rumours have been laid to rest
This video felt so unsettling, great music choice!
the shit you find just for the hell of it blow my mind, idk if you'll ever see this but every time i come home drunk I watch like 20 of your videos and just gawk at how much went into these games truly youre a madman but this world is better for you being here k thanx
actually im drunk now and i love you k thanx bye
Couldn't finish the videos. Your music gave me the heeby jeebys.
it's amazing how consistently you upload zullie
these cut content videos make me feel the same way as with shadow of the colossus cut content i love it
Fantastic choice in music as always zullie
It never occured to me till now that they're bigger batwing demons...
I LOVE the Demon Prince bossfight, so I'm happy they were able to repurpose the cut content :)
Love the legend of Zelda music you put in
You made me wanna play legend of Zelda twilight princess with that background music
I just realized... These are supposed to be the last demons in existence, but winged demons still take you down to the winged city?
what an amazing fight. the final form moveset is unreal. so powerful.
"What do you do with a boss that isn't finished?"
"Finish it."
One of the coolest bosses in the game so I’m glad it worked out the way it did.
Huh...man that would make the Demon Prince model pretty old, wouldn't it? The DLC came out some time later, the Ringed City DLC later still. It's really cool that Fromsoftware uses stuff like that, and yet magically makes it fit the scenario they have it in.
Kalameet, Chester and Artorias had concept art long before Dark Souls 1 even came out. They worked them out in the DLC.
Brume Tower DLC in Dark Souls 2 used a lot of assets or ideas from the early version of Iron Keep.
And yeah the Bat Demon was earlier than the DLC. A lot of armors that were in the DLC were already existing in the files in Dark Souls 3 before they were released.
Unfortunately the coolest one called the Burial Knight set was never released
@@brant_alan I'm kinda upset that Ledo's set was cut from the DLC myself. That's the one piece of cut content that I really wish made it in.
@@brant_alan I'm still not over the removal of the burial knight set...
It's weird because the "shooting down the bat" idea almost seems plausible. It would explain why the boss room is just kind of right there, accessible just by crossing the lake section without needing to properly traverse the bulk of the level. If one needed to get all the way to the ballista to shoot the bat out of the sky, causing it to land in its boss room a-la Kalameet, that would kind of tie it all together. Alas, I guess it was just a well thought out lie.
Thank goodness for the clearup about crimson bat
Such shame we can't explore smouldering lake that deep tho
To think that one of my favourite fights in the soulsborne series was a cut concept from another part of the game is crazy.
Great video like always. I didn't even realize that they are batlike until you said it. Greetings from Germany ✌
That model looks awesome!
I'd love if Zullie did a video like this for the cut bosses of Bloodborne too. I know they've been revealed already but i'd love more info on like The Great One Beast for example. This video completely intrigued me :D
Gotta be one my favorite fights in that entire game. Gank boss done right. Also sidenote, the music in this video is very unsettling and I kinda want to cry now because of it, but like.. in a good way
I just recently played through DS3 for the second time, this time with a guide and my experience was much less negative than the first time, so the timing for this one is perfect for me.
It's a shame the demons got shafted in terms of representation in all three games. Given how berserk heavy the souls universe is you would have thought demons would have had a bigger impact, especially with the civil war of demons vs Gwyn, Chaos vs Light
The story of the demons in all 3 games is being shafted. In the first game, they’ve been beaten down by Gwyn. Then a random undead comes along and destroys their birth flame, leaving them in permanent decline.
In 2, you kill one of their kings.
Then in 3, the Ashen One comes along and murders the last of their race.
At no point are they really a large scale threat.
@@Fireclaws10 to be honest it us implied that the war with the demons is what started the decline of the age of fire. Gwyn may have ended up winning but the huge losses inflicted upon his forces led to the weakening of his age, the rise of the undead curse and power of the dark souls emerging. Which led Gwyn sacrifice himself in order to preserve the age of fire.
You do know The age of fire was in decline even bafore the demons got to exist right? they were created by a failed attempt to recreate the first flame by the Witch of Izalith known as chaos flame which all the demons share
*before
dude that music creeps the shit out of my pants
I love these videos ❤️
Great video as always :)
How the fuck did I never realize it was the big daddy version of the batwing demon’s
Dark Souls monsters always look 10 times more terrifying when you stop to take a close look at their model =)
Still shooting the bar down with the ballista in soldering lake is such a good idea. That would’ve been awesome.
The base game already has so much content its not worth complaining for missing content
hey, love your vids thats all I wanted to say have a nice day
Always thought the smouldering lake wand demon ruins were not enough impressive. The idea of adding the crimson bat as a mid boss of the area would've been beautiful
Listening to the music from this video @ 1:22 am is frightening
Well, the details on the bat demons is thoroughly terrifying.
I also had seen that Carthus Sandworm & Crimson Bat were originally going to be a duo boss fight according to healthbars indication (I think @AesirAesthetics said that)
I always forget these fellas exist.
A demon bat that would've swooped down to attack is a cool idea for a boss
Always wondered why there were mountains of corpses in the Old Demon King’s Arena. This boss probably ate all of them in hindsight
Frankly the cave ceiling is too low for a bat so big.
one thing I really dislike about ds3 is that you can't see things super easy due to the excess of details. I had no idea these were essentially large batwing demons. that makes you wonder what kind of relation demon royalty had with the gods of anor londo.
The batwing demons were just lesser demons that were slaved by Gwyn after the war with demons.
I saw one theory that the Batwings that take you down to the Undead Settlement were enslaved when Lorian slew the original Demon Prince. Sounds plausible to me. There's the question though of just how intelligent Demons are; they can be entrusted with tasks that they will carry out faithfully, like serving as prison guards, gatekeepers, and transportation, they can train and command dogs, and they can carve weapons from the bones of their kin. Are they mindless killing machines of all but their own kind if left to their own devices, and if not why did Gwyn wage war on them? Did the Batwings choose to serve Anor Londo and Lothric, or were they coerced into doing so?
@@jadenkarpoff9158 the chaos demons are 100% as intelligent as any human, god, dragon, or giant. they have culture, tombs, priests, cities, royalty, and are considered a faction capable of taking part in a war. chances are most don't speak the common language in the dark souls universe. you need a ring to speak with the fair lady, and that's about the only instance of one speaking. and considering the chaos witches were the origin of the demons, it's likely they share the same tongue.
@@gilvanneto5772 yeah, but they're also very unique demons considering the rest we see. they resemble something you'd expect to find more in dark souls 2, not the chaos demons of isalith. I wonder if there's a reason, or if they're just... idk, cleaned up? the fact that the demon princes have flame attacks still, I'd say the later is likely. but it also could be that they were enslaved in particular because they were demon nobility or something. sort of a statement to the rest of the demons if that makes senese.
Excess of detail I think it’s more so this monster is always in high motion so it’s harder to absorb finer details.
one of my personal favourite fights in the game
Awesome Video Zullie.
I just love this boss fight. It's fairly hard, and I always imagine I'm fighting 2 Balrogs.
I either never noticed or had forgotten that the Old Demon King's room is full of petrified dead demons. Tis a cool detail. From loves its piles of petrified/burned corpses melded together. They even make some enemies out of them.
Regular Batwing trying to assert dominance
I've never noticed the exposed brain of Demon in pain, eeeww :C
Pull a "Mortal Kombat"? FINISH HIM!
The Demon Prince is one of my favorite bosses in the series so I’m glad they recycled and changed it for the fight in the DLC.
My favorite fight in DS3. Always have a blast putting my summoning stone down for it.
Just casually using some zelda music, i love it
I only came to listen to the soundtrack because it help me fall asleep