He was amazingly brave and cool-headed. He wore a hat and timed his run for freedom in the pre-dawn gloom so observers from shore would not be able to tell he was black. He steered his boat under the shore batteries with his and other slave families below decks, and ran up a white flag when he reached the union blockade.
"The reasons that induce me to recommend the employment of [black] troops at all render the effect of the measures I have suggested upon slavery immaterial, and in my opinion the best means of securing the efficiency and fidelity of this auxiliary force would be to accompany the measure with a well-digested plan of gradual and general emancipation." General Robert E Lee As you can see, Cobb and his ilk didn't speak for all Confederates. Neither did Cleburne's proposal, which included gradual, universal (Confederate) emancipation, crash against a solid wall of refusal, as it's portrayed in the video as having done. In fact, around 13 senior-ranked officers gave full support to it. Three other senior-ranked officers gave limited support to it. Contrary to myth, all Southern people don't think exactly alike.
In that stage where you know you're wrong, but you just won't allow the opportunity to be proven as such. I also have no idea how the idea of being a subservient enlisted man, whose job is to follow orders quickly and well was at all contradictory to their view of African Americans as a "naturally subservient" slave population.
@@warweasel2832 Yeah, even if, at that point, there were doubts in the Confederacy regarding voracity of the foundational theory of slavery, I don't think it would have mattered. They had too much to lose if the institution of slavery was abolished.
@@warweasel2832, because according to Confederates, black people were "subhuman" and fundamentally inferior to white people, which was their justification for enslaving black people. So what that asshole was getting at was that if black people were as good or even better than whites at being soldiers, their feverish ideas of Anglo-Saxon racial superiority would be proven wrong in the most spectacular fashion, and by that extension, their whole idea that, in the words of A. Stephens, slavery is the black man's natural and normal condition, would also be wrong. And we can't have that now, can we?
okay, let’s not pretend the view of American-American people was “naturally subservient” they were seen as stupid, physical inferior, incapable & deserved of servitude. To even be comparable or given the chance to show MORE aptitude than a white man was so threatening that it greatly cost the South the war, let’s be real here.
@@maildaemonTo rephrase your words, they were in too deep, they sunk too much into it, sunk cost fallacy and all that. They couldn’t turn back even if they knew it meant going off a cliff. They were going to commit to it to the very end.
@@pancytryna9378 lffen the war hadn't came about, the steam tractor was invented in1870. Just think how many farm hands wouldn't have a job. Don't know what your moniker means nor care. But this country may have not let all the immigration if the war hadn't come. For the country would have had plenty of workers, North & South. The ex-slaves would have been shipped to Africa, and the Native Americans herded onto rezes. And everyone lived happily ever after. You really believe that, the world is just hunky-dory?
Imagine telling others on their history cuz your so focused on slavery even though slavery in the south was never a conversation in 1858 only slavery in the west. Maybe you should understand the relationships between slaves and their owners in the south at that time. Yes some were bad but most were raised in that family and were treated as such, also another reason most slaves continued to live and work on plantations after 1865 plus most they had no other way of survival than to stay
@@rileyfair5 Where did you learn that most slaves were treated like family or that slavery in the south wasn't up for debate in 1858? Both of those couldn't be further from the truth.
@@Mark-sl4bw no I said slavery in the south wasnt the debate in that time. And by doing my own research. Reading what former slaves have said about their owners. Try listening to HK his family were actually slaves in I think north or south Carolina. Dont be bias when learning our history. Victors dont always speak the truth th-cam.com/video/BUw_P6w8Rdw/w-d-xo.html
I always thought he was spot on. Former slaves made excellent soldiers, just ask General Grant about the 200,000 serving in the Union armies. And yes, Mr. Cobb, your "whole theory of slavery is wrong." So he was 100% right.
“It is however of primary importance that the Africans should know that the service is voluntary on their part. As to the name of the troops, the general thinks you cannot do better than consult the men themselves. His only objection to calling them colored troops was that the enemy had selected that designation for theirs. But this has no weight against the choice of the troops and he recommends that they be called colored or if they prefer, they can be called simply Confederate troops or volunteers. Everything should be done to impress them with the responsibility and character of their position, and while of course due respect and subordination should be exacted, they should be so treated as to feel that their obligations are those of any other soldier and their rights and privileges dependent in law & order as obligations upon others as upon theirselves. Harshness and contemptuous or offensive language or conduct to them must be forbidden and they should be made to forget as soon as possible that they were regarded as menials. You will readily understand however how to conciliate their good will & elevate the tone and character of the men” - Robert E Lee to General Ewell on black confederate soldiers
@@bowen1704 Oh, wow, one lofty quote out of line with the reality of the situation has totally changed my mind on this whole complex issue. Thank you for enlightening me
“Lee viewed slavery as a evil.” - Historians Douglas Cohn and Jim Kelly “In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country.” - Robert E Lee 1856 “While we see the Course of the final abolition of human slavery is onward, & we give it the aid of our prayers & all justifiable means in our power we must leave the progress as well as the result in his hands who Sees the end” - Robert E Lee 1856 “I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained.” - Robert E Lee 1865 “I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than a dissolution of the Union. It would be an accumulation of all the evils we complain of, and I am willing to sacrifice anything but honor for its preservation.” Robert E Lee 1861 “During my research, came across instances where black men stated they were soldiers. Soldiers were clearly crossed out and body servant or teamster on pension applications replaced it.” - Black Historian Ervin Jordan I can assure you, that the gallant hearts that throb beneath its sacred folds, will only be content, when this glorious banner is planted first and foremost in the coming struggle for our independence. - John Bell Hood “For my part, I have no hesitancy from the first that, right or wrong, alone or otherwise, I go with Virginia.” - JEB Stuart “I would rather be a private in Virginia’s army than a general in any army that was going to coerce her.” - JEB Stuart
@@bowen1704 Wow, even more quotes! I'm definitely convinced of the righteousness of the southern cause now. I will now be erecting a Confederate flag outside my house so I can show poor hapless Yankees the error of their ways. Thank you for your service
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I really appreciate the relationship between Johnny Rebel and Billy Yank. They disagree on a pretty fundamental level, and frankly Billy Yank would have every right to treat Johnny Rebel as little more than a racist revisionist; but instead, he recognizes that Johnny Rebel is essentially just ignorant of the facts, wanting to believe a version of events that will make him proud of his heritage. They get along very well, telling jokes and giving each other gifts. It speaks to the idea that you'll change more minds through kindness and level-headedness than you ever will through vitriol and anger--yelling at people for people for being stupid might make you feel superior, but it's also the fastest way to make sure someone never listens to a word you say.
I appreciate the fact that you portray Johhny Reb as someone fundamentally decent, holding no actual racist or bigoted views, and genuinely just wants to believe his ancestors and people *weren't* those things. Even the "questionable" views he does hold seem to come from a place of genuine ignorance rather than malice. It would've been so much easier to write him as trailer-trash, and I cannot say how much it pleases me you didn't.
To be fair Johnny Reb did hold some pretty racists views early on but that was because he was possessed by Klaus the Nazi but the Witchfinder General exorcised him and he’s been less racists ever since.
I don't think Atun Shei holds much respect or empathy for his Johnny Reb character. Reb is constantly belittled, proven wrong and portrayed as a wacko who constantly nitpicks historic accounts and refuses to accept the fact that his views are wrong in any way. Johnny Reb is mostly characterized as the whitey lost causer trailer-trash he is parodying, a strawman who deserves no mercy or actual empathy. If the writer thought he were deserving of any respect then each episode would spend some more time understanding why Reb believes in the Lost Cause Myth. Reb himself has said he was a slave owner, solidifying even more his scumbag nature. Put simply he *is* written as a bad person who deserves to be gunned down, he was in the first episode actually.
@@brandonmorel2658 Well what exactly do you want him to say? That Johnny Reb is a genius who is completely correct in his views on the Confederacy and its reasons? The reality is, if you seriously looked at the Confederate States of America, you look at what they themselves said their cause was, look at what they were in effect fighting for, you would have to be an idiot to seriously believe that they had anything resembling a just cause. You can respect their determination and willingness to fight, their perseverance in the face of terrible battlefield conditions. Their resolve to keep fighting even as the war devastated their homes. But at the end of the day, you have to acknowledge the simple fact that they were fighting for an unjust cause and that if they had won, the world would objectively have been worse off for it. And if you cannot acknowledge that, if you cannot acknowledge slavery as a defining characteristic of the Confederate struggle, even as the Confederate states themselves admitted it to be, well then... I'm sorry to blunt but you are a moron. Frankly, at that point, I'd have more respect for you if you acknowledged slavery as a cause and actually endorsed slavery as an institution. Because at least then, you're not willfully blind to the truth. You just... take a very very very different moral lesson from those facts. If nothing else, I can always respect Thucydides' maxim about the strong inevitably dominating the weak. Even if many of us may find that view to not be ethically palatable.
"Yea. We loved Aunt Betty! She raised all of my family. Had to whip her a few times to teach her to behave, but you know how it is. We love black people!"
Thank god I wasn't the only one who noticed the historical value of the gift giving scene (as those are the exact same products the Union and Confederacy secretly gave to the other side)
@@kennethfharkin hey, in the wartime South, a can of Folgers would have been as valuable as a kilo of cocaine. What I find funny is his dissing of chicory coffee, since that’s still a New Orleans thing today (albeit mixed with real coffee, iirc)
You think the black soldiers in the Union had a choice to fight? Surely there was slavery, but that didn't cause the civil war. Back then, slavery was still legal in every state.
@@omegatafkal No it wasn't, at least, not the kind you're speaking of. It's literally the point of the Dred v. Scott (Does a slave's status as property become null if they are in a location where it is illegal for them to be property).
I met a deep southerner from Tennessee once that had a southern unionist ancestor and was dang proud of it. He talked about how his ancestor was amongst the few locals from his small town being friendly and welcoming towards local ex-slaves after the war ended.
I wish I had a Southern unionist ancestor. For my family, our Southern cousins in Louisiana blamed us for them losing all their slaves during the war and making them poor (they had borrowed heavily on their slaves as collateral and thus lost all their land due to excessive debt). We didn't have a proper family reunion with both Northern and Southern branches until the late 1970's. Then sometime in 2003, we discovered we had black relatives (due to our Southern cousins' fondness for raping their slaves) and my grandmother invited them to join the family reunions. Which sparked a big debate, and a good portion of my Southern relatives refusing to come back to the family reunions. As you can guess, the ones most adverse to spending time with our black cousins are the biggest lost causers.
@@MalrexMontresor my uncle even hangs a Virginia battle flag in his barn, despite having no traitor heritage whatsoever, I can't even fathom this kind of stupidity
@@thiccfucka69xxx I've always wondered about this dynamic of people with zero Southern heritage and only Union ancestors supporting the Confederacy. Ultimately, it comes down to only two reasons: 1. They have completely fallen for Lost Cause propaganda and believe that the CSA was fighting for "State's Rights". 2. Or they are racist and actually believe slavery was a good thing.
Confederate Capitan: "Poor Silas, they captured him! Those yankees are probably torturing him for information" Soldier: "Isn't that your slave, sir?" Confederate Capitan: "Ha! We are save! Silas infiltrated the enemy army to betray them before they overwhelm us" Soldier: "They are charging, sir" Confederate Capitan: "Any second Now" Soldier: "He is aiming at you, sir" Confederate Capitan: "Any second Now"
The most unrealistic thing about these series is how the confederate guy just sits there and lets you talk. usually you get 3 to 4 words out and they are all ready screaming
@@williamblackfyre4866 I've talked to quite a few people who are pro confederacy, which I thought was the implied meaning. I apologize I'll make sure I'm incredibly clear and persice next time
@@Earlesstag ok, but would you still call someone that is pro confederacy, a confederate? That is what I was hung up on. I'm not sure if it's a typo or you say it funny so you spelled it different, but it's 'precise' not per.
@@brandonk.4864 Well, he isn’t wrong about most Union regiments. The US Army was segregated for decades after the Civil War. I can’t speak of “most left wing circles” because I am not part of “left wing circles”, and I doubt Matthew is either.
@@zekedia2223 it’s not that Matthew Chenault is wrong, but it’s just trying to save face for the confederacy. Here I’ll give you an example : ‘Oh yeah! The Yankees segregated their troops, and were racists! Meanwhile our southern brethren fought alongside colored ‘troops’! What’s that? Confederacy fighting for the rights to own slaves? You know northerners had slaves! What do you mean they’re the ones who fought for and ratified the 13th amendment?’ See what I mean?
Honestly, the more I hear about lost cause myths, the more I think that the most fatal concoction to a lost cause believer would be that which would allow any confederate politician or army officer to ressurect for as little as 15 minutes.
I think if you listened to both music on both sides the union and the Confederacy it paints a picture we cant just say slavery was the only cause for it cuz it wasn't it was one of many reason for the war. More than anything it was cultural difference between north and South. Listen to im good ole rebel 2nd south Carolina string band and Southern soldier by 2nd Carolina string band. Every Confederate had their reason for picking up Arms for dixie and you know what if it had to be done again god damn it it would be apart of it. Im not a racist i just have my veiws on government and America aint gotten better its gotten worse.
Southerner here, I love this. Definitely agree that the Confederacy was wrong and was formed upon slavery. But Mr. Reb, please never concede, we need more of this amazing series!
The biggest thing that disproves the idea of black confederate soldiers is the lack of documentation. If they were in fact soldiers, what was their rank? What was the highest rank a black confederate soldier ever recived and who received it? Where is the contract? All enlisting members have to sign a contract. What is the length of the contract? What regiment were they assigned to? Who was their commanding officer? And every soldier is given compensation for their contract? What was their pay? How did the confederacy send money to the bank accounts? And were they're any disciplinary actions taken on these soldiers? This shit is documented. Even in the union. So the idea that they would be seen as soldiers...is entirely without merit. And if there were, why don't we have statues in the south about them?
Let me be clear that the following are just a small example of proof that blacks served in the confederacy. I also want to state for the record that i know that all slaves were not treated fairly and i want to also let it be known i DO NOT, HAVE NOT be a proponnent of slavery that it is a horrible instituition At least one Black Confederate was a non-commissioned officer. James Washington, Co. D 34th Texas Cavalry, “Terrell’s Texas Cavalry” became it’s 3rd Sergeant. In comparison, The highest-ranking Black Union soldier during the war was a Sergeant Major. Free black musicians, cooks, soldiers and teamsters earned the same pay as white confederate privates. This was not the case in the Union army where blacks did not receive equal pay. At the Confederate Buffalo Forge in Rockbridge County, Virginia, skilled black workers “earned on average three times the wages of white Confederate soldiers and more than most Confederate army officers ($350-$600 a year). Nearly 180,000 Black Southerners, from Virginia alone, provided logistical support for the Confederate military. Many were highly skilled workers. These included a wide range of jobs: nurses, military engineers, teamsters, ordnance department workers, brakemen, firemen, harness makers, blacksmiths, wagonmakers, boatmen, mechanics, wheelwrights, etc. In the 1920’S Confederate pensions were finally allowed to those workers that were still living. Many thousands more served in other Confederate States. The first military monument in the US Capitol that honors an African-American soldier is the Confederate monument at Arlington National cemetery. The monument was designed 1914 by Moses Ezekiel, a Jewish Confederate, who wanted to correctly portray the “racial makeup” in the Confederate Army. A black Confederate soldier is depicted marching in step with white Confederate soldiers. Also shown is one “white soldier giving his child to a black woman for protection”. - Source: Edward Smith, African American professor at the American University, Washington DC. Black Confederate heritage is beginning to receive the attention it deserves. For instance, Terri Williams, a black journalist for the Suffolk “Virginia Pilot” newspaper, writes: “I’ve had to re-examine my feelings toward the [Confederate] flag…It started when I read a newspaper article about an elderly black man whose ancestor worked with the Confederate forces. The man spoke with pride about his family member’s contribution to the cause, was photographed with the [Confederate] flag draped over his lap…that’s why I now have no definite stand on just what the flag symbolizes, because it no longer is their history, or my history, but our history.” sources Charles Kelly Barrow, et. al. Forgotten Confederates: An Anthology About Black Southerners (1995). Currently the best book on the subject. Ervin L. Jordan, Jr. Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia (1995). Well researched and very good source of information on Black Confederates, but has a strong Union bias. Richard Rollins. Black Southerners in Gray (1994). Also an excellent source. Dr. Edward Smith and Nelson Winbush, “Black Southern Heritage”. An excellent educational video. Mr. Winbush is a descendent of a Black Confederate and a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV).
@@chestydajarhead Lmao you're literally defending slavery. Also the people who were "workers" were slaves and unpaid. James Washington being a black confederate doesn't seem to be evidenced anywhere i can see, where are you getting this from? That statue you're referring to about "the racial makeup" of the confederates army depicts a slave helping white owners. "The Confederate Memorial at Arlington National Cemetery includes a depiction of an enslaved black woman holding the child of a white" And then the last paragraph is conjecture
@@dillonblair6491 I'm sorry i didn't know that your reading skills were not able to pick up the part where i wrote that i am not a proponent of slavery .....also that you are not correct in your statements ,please learn to read and do research before your ignorant mouth makes you a fool
@@chestydajarheadNothing but anecdotal evidence. 180,00 support staff are not soldiers. They were (as this video mentions) slaves serving their masters. None were paid. None had ranks. None of them were official Confederate soldiers. As OP says, any real soldiers would've been officially documented to some degree, yet none are.
There is no way you actually believe the colors have anything to do with racism the game is over 1500 years old the colors are a simple result of black and white material being both easier to obtain and easier to differentiate. When you play chess you can have black make the first move, no one is going to hurt you. Me and my friends flip coins to decide who goes first.
@@levimalone4433 Of course I don't believe the colors are racist. I just thought it was oddly appropiate that the Confederate side played with white pieces since, you know, the whole white supremacy thing, and the Union gets the black pieces, which is fitting since they ended up freeing the black slaves. The fact that, customarily, white plays first (just like the South attacked first) is the cherry on top.
@@levimalone4433 1. Modern chess is only 500 Years old, Three where others Version before, but chess as we now it, is from the 15.Century. 2. You can flip coins, but white goes first. This is the rule, you can play it with other rule, but is it chess then?
This was probably THE biggest myth I used to believe to be true. I even remember doing a school project and finding so many websites peddling this info with pictures and everything. My teacher didn't even tell me I was wrong... It's a shame America waits until the college level to teach critical thinking skills, as well as the listing and vetting of sources.
@@wierdalien1 It is overused. Hence the frustration, like people complaining about modern pop in old time music, and how cultured they are. It is true but monotonous.
Having Ewan McGregor as God answering Johnny Reb's prayer had me in stitches. Great video sir, and as always: Thou art a wretched sinner, utterly unworthy of God's love. A fountain o' pollution is deep within thy nature, and thou livest as a winter tree, unprofitable, fit only to be hewn down and burned. Steep thy life in prayer, and hope that God sees fit to show mercy upon thy corrupted soul.
@@joshuawells835 Nah Darth Maul was never really as evil as he seemed to be. Sure he wasn't a good guy or anything. But he didn't have a choice in the matter to become Palpatine apprentice as his mother was promised that position but then Palpatine just grabbed Maul one day and decided he would become his apprentice. After Phantom Menace he lost his mind for awhile and after regaining it decided to take over the crime syndicate and Mandalore in order gain enough power to take his revenge on Obi Wan and over throw Palpatine. But he was defeated by Palpatine and kept captive until the group of Mandalorians he was the leader of rescued him. After that his goal was to lure Obi Wan to Mandalore so he could kill Anakin as he knew that Anakin was to become the apprantice of Palpatine and that they would rule over the galaxy. He tried to convince Ahsoka to join him and she was going to until she asked him what he wanted with Anakin and he told her but she refused to believe that Anakin would join the Sith. He was then beaten by Ahsoka and captured but after Order 66 was ordered to happen Ahsoka let Maul escape because she needed someone to create a distraction. He then escaped and went back to leading his crime syndicate. So Palpatine is the devil and Maul is just more like some guy who was tricked by the devil. Only way you could call Maul the devil is if you decide to call Palpatine God. As Lucifer aka the Devil rebelled against his father god and was cast out for doing so. And Maul did rebel against Palpatine and was cast out by him.
@@wisewolftony Fair, however, Maul himself would disagree, as he said he chose to become a Sith, only for it to turn on him. It was his choice, even as it was chosen for him. Rewatch the scene in the Mandalorian throne room when he kills Satine.
Whites fighting for the North: “I’m fighting to preserve the Union!” Whites fighting for the South: “I’m fighting for state’s rights!” Blacks fighting for the North: “I’m fighting for my fucking life!” Blacks fighting for the South: “I don’t even wanna be here bruh”
@@morsecode980 as the war progressed, abolition became a major goal for the Union army, especially for the soldiers on the ground who saw firsthand the condition slaves lived it
He actually does a pretty good job trying to argue for the Confederate cause, it's not like he's only addressing one thing, he's trying to find the best evidence for the Confederacy.
Yeah, because if you don’t present the absolutely strongest version of an argument you are rebutting you leave your rebuttal vulnerable to some flaw that you overlooked. It’s the inverse of a strawman.
My professor told me the best way to win an argument is to actually be right, and that you can't even know what is right unless you know the issues to the fullest extent. Big reason I like this channel, use of sources and it's never one sided.
Things that have happened in “Checkmate, Lincolnites!”: -Immortal (?) Confederate soldier who gets resurrected -Possession by a Nazi archeologist of said Confederate -An exorcism preformed by a VVitchfinder General from Puritan times -Advertisements at gunpoint -Obi-God Kenobi -Whatever the fuck Andy was watching at the start of the episode on tariffs
You forgot: --Drunk Confederate officer (Christmas Episode) --Confederate being threatened at gun point (Sherman Episode) --Racist o'meter goign nuts in the end (Poilot Episode) --No they did not, yes they did, NO THEY DID NOT, NO, NO, NO SIR, NO (Fight for Slavery Episode)
To say black people were an integral part of Confederate units was to say that horses and livestock were equally integral to the Confederate army. Before the advent of mechanisation (and even some time after) armies literally could do nothing without horses and mules as they hauled vital supplies like food, ammunition, etc. But that didn't mean they fought in the front lines or didn't get whipped when they weren't moving fast enough.
@Maximus Brutus Your "logic" (and I deliberately use scare quotes to denote it is the opposite of actual logic) is easily shown to be faulty and disproved. Saying that because livestock were whipped, and British soldiers were whipped, ergo "British soldiers were livestock" is foolish sophistry that ignores basic facts. Whipping was not an uncommon punishment of that era. A slave could be whipped not only for punishment but for any reason, including to make them work harder, like livestock. British soldiers were flogged for punishment solely as a function of military discipline and it's use was limited (if it was used at all) by law after 1811; by 1868 it was used only for a unit in wartime. Much of the time this punishment was no doubt unfair, but still a legal punishment meted out by order of a court martial with some due process. It's materially different than some random farmer whipping livestock. The farmer is certainly not doing it because the livestock committed some infraction as an example to the other cattle. If that weren't enough of a difference for you, every goddamn British soldier still had the rights of an Englishman under the law. Slaves fundamentally had no individual rights under the law.
@@TheGuitarReb My apologies, I understand. I just didn't want to mistakenly assume you were, because not everyone who served in the US Army at the time were sent there.
“It is however of primary importance that the Africans should know that the service is voluntary on their part. As to the name of the troops, the general thinks you cannot do better than consult the men themselves. His only objection to calling them colored troops was that the enemy had selected that designation for theirs. But this has no weight against the choice of the troops and he recommends that they be called colored or if they prefer, they can be called simply Confederate troops or volunteers. Everything should be done to impress them with the responsibility and character of their position, and while of course due respect and subordination should be exacted, they should be so treated as to feel that their obligations are those of any other soldier and their rights and privileges dependent in law & order as obligations upon others as upon theirselves. Harshness and contemptuous or offensive language or conduct to them must be forbidden and they should be made to forget as soon as possible that they were regarded as menials. You will readily understand however how to conciliate their good will & elevate the tone and character of the men” - Robert E Lee to General Ewell on black confederate soldiers
The next installment of my favorite Atun-Shei series. No wrapping necessary...thank you for the wonderful holiday gift! And thank you Atun-Shei films for a great 2020. Looking forward to 2021, stay safe!
@@Andandand25 no. Chicory was popularized because of the blokade which also caused the black market. They didn't have any regular coffee so tried to make do with that
This should be really easy to prove. Lost Causers should be able to point to regiments in the Confederate order of battle, not resorting to these random collections of sources. Unless they actually want us to believe that the Confederate Army was desegregated when the Union's wasn't lol. Which they might actually attempt knowing them. There's also the fact that even if they were right and black soldiers fought for the Confederacy it still wouldn't prove the war wasn't about slavery lmao. It's wrong and it's pointless.
There actually are some people who claim the Confederate army was desegregated. Or that blacks were "officially" prohibited from enlisting,* but because Confederate officers were just so cool and chill they let blacks fight for them anyway. There are some Lost Cause myths that are reasonable but misguided, misleading or simplistic. This one is just wrong, wrong, wrong - the mental gymnastics are astounding. *EDIT: As soldiers, that is. Like I said in the video some free blacks enlisted as musicians, cooks, etc.
@@AtunSheiFilms Try reading "towards the end of the war, Southern Officers were so desperate they didn't look very close." {could be. there's a lot of "half Breed" enlisted. didn't say who. {and my family said "half white" when the last white was in the seventeenth century. We fought for the Union. But you're treading on hate now. Try to talk to a few southerners. We don't bite.} [ok, usually don't bite. Bark a lot}
@@AtunSheiFilms Since you had "Godly McGregor:" 2 Timothy 4:3: people 'want their ears tickled.' Basically, anything that contradicts a belief, a person wants to dump from their mind. I think 'shrinks' call the phenomenon "confirmation bias." But yeah, the gymnastics are amazing and super creative.
@@EdgieAlias even though the rally the debater stood behind is asinine, the advice he gives rings true. If you value unbiased news information then I highly suggest to stick to other mediums other than C.N.N.
@@palestalemale8831 idk how about you look into that on your own accord. I like how I told you to think for yourself and you still end up asking me on how to do that. 😅🤣😂
“Our great and glorious Confederacy was as diverse as a college admissions photo.” That made me laugh. Though I will say in the Silas Chandler photo the white guy looks FAR more scared than Silas.
This might be the best episode of "Checkmate, Lincolnites!" yet. The ending was so wholesome! I'm actually starting to see some character development in Johnny Reb, he kinda accepted losing the argument in the end here. I wonder if the next episode will be about the Native Confederates (or rather the Native/Indigenous Americans in the Civil War in general)? At least in that case poor Johnny will have some better footing. Also, the topic covered this time makes me even more curious about your opinion of the 1999 movie Ride with the Devil, because the "exceptionally loyal slave fighting with his master" motive was featured there in a nuanced way if I remember correctly (it was a long time since I watched that movie).
@@BB-hx4mj I'm trying my best. Now it's a struggle more than ever because I got Kingdom Come: Deliverance for Christmas. I mean I'm very busy with serious work. 😅
@@EpicMetalTime you shouldn't let one person decide your views historical or otherwise. Atun is smart but he has his own perspective and therefore bias towards the civil war just as any gentleman should.
@@thepunisher8676 A myth formed after the Civil War that the Confederacy was not fighting for slavery but for some other more justifiable reason like states rights, tariffs, or Union "tyranny" in an effort to save face.
This is by far the most level headed Johnny has been portrayed, and his arguments still get trashed lol, goes to show calm and confident doesn't equal correct. Great video as always!
@@jeffbenton6183 I assume he means specifically the voice James Earl Jones uses as Darth Vader. It isn't his standard speaking voice, though it is close.
Funny how every mention of slavery by a confederate supporter always says the majority of slaves were happy. My only question is, would you give up all of the agency in your life and your children’s lives to serve someone else, no matter how good they treat you?
Hmmm... Well this focuses the attention on the wrong thing regardless, but I think it is a clue as to how they are regarding their black brethren as "other," since it is typically the conservative mindset that self-reliance is the best thing, not only to be admired but pursued, or even _enforced_ to be considered a man, if not a true American. In that sense incessantly proselytizing these qualities to other Americans while denying this imaginary "kind" slavery's antithesis to that betrays their true feelings about black people. As if their defense of the historical evil of slavery wasn't enough to do that in the first place.
@@heroic9631 Yes, slavery was an expensive practice that could only be maintained if you were making enough to profit off of slave labor to begin with.
It is very odd how Americans have always grappled with the moral principles in the Declaration of Independence. They love the document when they think of their family and friends, but as soon as they start thinking of the “others,” then they often like to search for loopholes in those principles.
A lot of people throughout life has shown willingness to dedicate his life to a greater cause. It is nothing new people prefering to obey the orders from someone they like than 'having their own will'. So...
Saying the confederacy isn't racist because there were black Confederates is like saying the SS was tolerant because they had volunteers and "suggested volunteers" from Eastern Europe. CHECKMATE ALLIES
There were Muslim SS, and the Japanese were honorary Aryans. Pretty much telling how Nazi race theories were mumbo jumbo changing according to their political needs.
What a fantastic episode. Thank you, Andy, for your all your hard work in bringing the truth to us. You call yourself an "okay" actor but I think you're a great actor. To make us believe you're talking to something besides a blank chair takes skill. Bravo. Plus, Ewan MacGregor and "Hello there"? *chef's kiss*
@@__yt9081 yeah, the British were a bit better at actually freeing at least some of the American slaves who fled the United States, including some efforts at granting them land in the colonies. The British program definitely had a lot of problems, but it was better than the US approach which was to put as many of them back into slavery as possible and, in many states, to completely bar those that were free from public life.
As a European brushing up on his American history you're videos are very entertaining and insightful (:. A friend of mine, from Tennessee is adamant, and unrelenting in his opinion that 100,000 enslaved and free men willingly fought for the Confederacy.. He will not budge in his opinion. I've showed him so many videos bebunking the myth... Like, I'm from Ireland, I'm not even from the U.S - I was never thought U.S history in school, all of it i've researched myself yet even I know the black confederate myth couldn't be a more false piece of historical revisionism. Why would people fight for an institution that keeps them enslaved? I think it sometimes takes an outsiders perspective to see what's real and what's myth. But yeah, when my friend says the confederate cause was about *freedom* I retort with "yeah.. freedom! the freedom to keep human beings in bondage and to pivot an entire society around this enterprise!" .. Also that Irish accent you did for Cleburne was on point 👌
@Wajjjeeaa There be a lot of truth-stretching going on in support of the notion of 'black confederates'. But my favorite part is how to these neo-cons, the handful of documented black men that approached something like military service for the confederacy serves to exonerate Dixie; where the 180,000 documented black men marching for the Union doesn't signal to them that people don't want to be slaves! The handful of black camp slaves so loyal as to be 'honored' at meetings, etc are the example of people broken to the constant, unrelenting mental abuse of 'you are inferior'. Any black man or woman that succumbed to this brainwashing, literally did become the bosom of south; the epitome of the dream they had. An entire class of voluntarily subservient humans, who can be tasked with every chore too distasteful for someone with money to have to do. Some of these black people can be seen in video interview in the year I was born, 1965. You can see the proud white lady who has special feels for her negroes. smh Those blacks who didn't cave and accept this existence, while also not escaping to anywhere but the south, were like the defects if you will. It was this group that southern veterans, who supposedly didn't care about slavery, launched a campaign of violent intimidation against. You know them as the kkk, Jim Crow, the Black Codes, segregation, etc; eight decades of voter intimidation, demeaning treatment for generations, the impact of which is fairly plain to see. Atun-Shei succinctly lays this out right here, but you can just 'feel' the neo-cons spacing off and not listening to any of it. Right back to 'it wasn't about slavery!
@@jamie8032 As a black American whose grandparents suffered the end of the Jim Crow era, I didn't think my feedback on a public forum discussing black confederates required any soliciting. I only agreed with you, from a position of directly observing the impact of this lost cause nonsense from your Tennessean friend in my own family as well as in my countrymen. You don't have to be talking to me for me to respect your position. What you do with that respect is up to you.
I am from a Texas town named after Cleburne after the war. The more I learn about him, the more I like him. I had to shed the lost cause narrative I learned in Cleburne public schools though.
Wonderfully insightful, even more so considering that many of the regiments in Meade's army at Gettysburg were Irish volunteers. Your people had as much of a stake in keeping the Union together as did the those who were enslaved and oppressed because at the time, both groups were oppressed at one place or another.
Hey Atun-Shei, as an LSU alumni who graduated with honors in History, wanted to say that your content is pretty awesome and your attention to details/primary sources is unparalleled to other 'History skit' channels. You do our state proud, brother. I really liked your analysis on the NOLA statues video too. I went down to the Historic New Orleans Collection archives for a paper on that same issue a few years back and came to similar conclusions. Subscribed!! Keep the content rolling!
You got a degree in history? I’m hoping to do something similar but if there’s no jobs in that market I will be forced to go into a math/science field (gag). Have any advice?
@@MrCricketbuff I was told some wise advice about Humanities (History, Art, English, etc.) in college: Majoring in STEM or stuff like accounting will start your career off easy after college because you decided to major in a skill. Majoring in Humanities won't have that same easy path to a job, but a smart recruiter will understand that you decided to major in a discipline instead of a skill. The difference is that studying a discipline sets you on the path to being more worldly individual, increasing your ability for empathy and critical thinking which leads to competent leadership and social ethos. A skill is simply a skill. If you want a more direct example, imagine you are a HR person looking for a newbie software engineer for your company. Two candidates interview: One majored in History as opposed to CompSci. Both can demonstrate basic programming knowledge, yes, but the History person (through their college experience) is able to express themselves more professionally and is generally more worldly/sociable beyond what's explicitly required of them for the job. Remember, this is a hire you will likely spend more time with than your family at home. Who would you be more interested in being around/representing your company? (No offense to CompSci folks, but the anti-social stigma exists for a reason. '-';;) So, basically, don't do Humanities and expect it will get you super far by itself-you will end up in minimum wage hell like that. It's great as a stepping stone to future plans like law school or professional development programs that give you the actual skills to progress down a serious career track. Also, word of advice, being a Humanities grad student is a trap. There are a plethora of career students out there who just want to be a professor but are deadweight PhDs. The European History position at my state flagship college was vacant for less than a year (because the last professor literally died) and he was a Harvard Master's/PhD. Louisiana's flagship is kind of a joke outside of football, so your competition with higher education in humanities is absolutely ridiculous when the reality is that Harvard candidates are competing for a 60k year associate professorship. STEM professors are in way higher demand because they lead research with monetary value instead of just the cultural value humanity efforts propagate.
@@MrCricketbuff I majored fully in History, but I currently work in an office setting that utilizes community resource management systems (CRMs) to process applications. It's my first "real" job, but it was still entry level with a minimum of 2 years of work experience. Definitely pick up a part time job during college if you can to skirt by the cursed 2-4 years of work experience barrier to entry. Thankfully, all the skills I needed could be learned on the job relatively easily.
George Washington had hundreds of slaves that attended to him both at Mt Vernon and throughout the war. He was definitely overconfident in their loyalty to him, as scores of them escaped to British warships at the first opportunity. He just couldn't quite wrap his mind around slaves valuing their freedom more than being his slaves.
@@ProjectEkerTest33 cognitively dissonant maybe, but not shocking for his time. It took another 150 years for whites to start viewing blacks as equals, even when they believed that slavery was evil.
@@delcapslock100 eh, only if you consider the good ol' US of A to be the only source of whiteness. ... but like in 1793, Upper Canada banned slavery, and those Brits doing so and such would be classified as white... by pretty much everyone now and then.
I have to admit at first I didn’t like this guy but he’s growing on me and his videos are really good. Now I don’t agree with everything you say but some of your information has made me stop and ponder the possibility, and for that thank you sir!
@@clintfields5728 good, I’d encourage you to read more into it if you still have doubts. I’ve done most of my own research through books and Articles made by credited historians and 99.9% if not 100% of what he is saying is true. But by all means read about it in your own. It’s a very interesting and important part of American History.
This channel has educated me much more than my school ever did. We were taught the lost cause myth as fact and until finding this channel, which deconstructed and disproved it in a way that I didn’t immediately turn off the videos, i still believed it.
A decent chunk of the "lost cause" myth is accurate. It's primarily the hero worship/chivalry aspect concerning their leaders/generals and the portrayal of slavery as being beneficial to the slaves where things get silly. The states had a right to secede and Lincoln's actions started the actual war, not the Confederacy's. Also, Lincoln's refusal to recognize their right to leave and decision to force them to stay at gunpoint qualifies it as a war over states rights as it violated the rights granted the states by the 10th amendment. It was pretty much legislation by gun rather than pen. Not exactly a precedent most would want to set.
I don't remember much about the Civil War from school, but I vividly remember my US History teacher in 7th grade going out of his way to say that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, but states' rights. I kinda just took the guy's word for it (obviously, that's BS). The subject never really interested me until much later in life.
I recently found out that someone I know with, er, less than accurate views of historical people of color watches this channel. Watching this video, and knowing that they'll see it too, is the best possible Christmas present.
Even if this claim was true, I don't think it would be particularly meaningful, or say anything good about the Confederacy. European colonial empires made extensive use of native soldiers, but they were still racist and exploitative. But they realised that the most effective way to utilize racism was to treat certain people (e.g local elites, or tribes or ethnic groups with a strong martial culture) as superior to the other locals, and grant them some privileges accordingly. That way they will support the system because they benefit from it (or at least think they do). From the video, it sounds that something similar was happening in New Orleans, but the Confederates were to stuck in their ways to take advantage of it. So in short, the Confederates were too racist to even do racism effectively.
And what makes you think that the northerners staged a war to free the slaves? Well, it's just expensive, and the capitalists in the north themselves are still racists For example Lincoln said that slaves would be freed only to capture the south I think the war was about taxes For the North to take over the south and the Elites of the north to control the South No one cared about the slaves In the north, blacks were used as cheap labor and a means to lower the price of labor А с чего ты взял, что в северяне устроили войну чтобы освободить рабов? Ну вот просто это дорого стоит, а капиталисты на севере сами расисты ещё те Например Линкольн говорил что рабов освобождать будет только для захвата юга Я думаю, что война была из-за налогов Чтобы Север захватил юг и Элиты севера контролировали Юг На рабов всем плевать было На севере чернокожие использовались как дешёвая рабочая сила и средство для снижения цены на труд
As he pointed out in the video re: New Orleans, the black Confederate regiment in Louisiana were free blacks in basically the only area of the South where there were any significant number of free blacks, and had very different interests than the enslaved population.
the union also was too racist to do it right after a time, itself. the "five civilized tribes" took to taking on the european way of life as the best means of survival, and were used in this role against the more hostile tribes. but as time went on, the US honored less and less of the treaties, resulting in such atrocities as the trail of tears, and also the "indian wars." even now, the US will shit all over its treaties with the tribes if it can extract some value from the transaction.
@@noskpain2792 Noted that you said the word "Creole" which is a person of mixed white and black heritage. So no he isn't like the "Black Confederates" that post Confederates like to hail up. And also, a handful of "black" confederates fail to counter the fact that there was 100k black soldiers in active combat service with the Union by the time of the end of the war. You need at least a few thousand people to make a convincing argument as this individual cases are more of "the execption to the rule" rather than the norm. Heck there was more women pretending to be men to serve in the civil war then there was black confederates. But no sane person will make the claim that women were allowed to serve during the civil war.
@@noskpain2792 Alexander Dimitry defected from the Confederate cause before the 1st Battle of Bull Run and fled to New York where he remained for the rest of the war, you can look it up. PGT Beauregard was apparently so incensed that he called Dimitry "a traitor to the land of his birth."
Even putting aside the confederate sympathies it's just incredible how unlikable Scarlett is as a protagonist. If only we had been treated to Rhett's life story.
I'd say there's a difference between being a captivating, complex character and being morally upstanding. Rhett never claimed to be the latter, even through the author's warped worldview.
My mom made me watch it when I turned 13, claiming it was a rite of passage. I found it dreadfully boring, and I hated Scarlett. My parents are pro-confederate, I found out later. [Curb your enthusiasm plays distantly]
I'd like to imagine Johnny Reb has actually been convinced that the south was bad and the checkmate lincolnites series is just him and Billy Yank re-enacting their old debates and outside of the series the 2 are actually just good friends and drinking buddies
Even if he hasn't changed his name, they're probably still friends and good drinking buddies. Being a Southerner who has actually studied history, my lost causer friends and family annoy the shit out of me, but they're good company most of the time!
@@thewest8630 Mr. The West, you could try and show your lost causer family and friends this Checkmate Lincolnites Show, it's hilarious and pretty convincing so it might do the work on those hard core dixie boys
_"Yes, it's me [Jesus Christ]. But I wasn't really born on Christmas. It's a vile pagan carnival, and everyone who celebrates it is going to hell."_ _- Obi-Wan Kenobi_
So Jesus Christ, Obi-Wan Kenobi and the Witchfinder General are one and the same? I think I finally understand the (un)Holy Trinity. Christmas, or rather the pagan festivals it replaced, is all about joy, love for your fellow man (and woman) and a promise about lighter, warmer times. Anyone who opposes that, is vile.
Your “ Johnny Reb “ Character is the best. He is so funny/informative in his own way.. he’s a brilliant idea to get the real message out. That slavery is/was the sole base root of succession Kudos for your videos. Well done sir. Very well done.
Yeah after the war when they had those Union and Confederate reunions they often times treated the Blacks that served as laborers in the Confederate armies like mascots. Of course the close to over 200,000 Blacks that served in the Union Army and Union Navy were not invited to these reunions because their very presence would have let everybody know exactly why the war was fought.
for the north subjugating the southern states back into the union and property disputes which comes down to money. for the south, secession, and State sovereignty, and property disputes.
Yeah, while many in the Union thought slavery was a barbaric and cruel practice, not too many really cared about black people in other ways. Keep in mind that saying slavery is bad is like saying that a law that makes it legal to rape non-citizens is bad, yeah, just because you don’t agree with that law doesn’t meant you disagree with deportation.
As someone who was born and raised in the first secession state South Carolina, your videos have changed my mind about the lost cause. I feel really stupid that I actually believed it, but this southerner thanks you. Keep it up!!!!!!
@@obi-wankenobi1233 I appreciate the curiosity because I like to self-reflect every once in a while. To be honest I never really had any love for the Confederacy and was never really big on Southern pride. I've always felt that slavery was an evil institution that needed to be destroyed, and I never at all doubted for a second that the main cause of the Civil War was slavery. Neither my family nor my schools ever taught me to sympathize with the Confederacy or downplay the monstrosity of slavery, quite the opposite in fact. Where I dwelled into Lost Cause territory has to do with my belief that if a state or a region wants to be it's own sovereign nation then it has the right to do so. I didn't understand the need to send hundreds of thousands of men to their deaths simply to force the South back into the Union, even if they were trying to keep slavery in tact. I felt the South would've eventually been pressured by the West to outlaw slavery, and also eventually would have returned to the Union. I also thought that most Confederate soldiers were like Robert E. Lee, who simply fought out of loyalty and willingness to protect their land and families. When instead the vast majority were not only willing, but happy to fight for slavery. These videos(and the podcast History That Doesn't Suck) changed my mind on these things and made me realize I was asking the wrong question. That I should have been asking "Why cause so much human suffering to protect and spread an evil institution that was steadily being phased out of the civilized world?" I still believe in the right to independence and secession, but I now believe the South's secession was illegitimate due to its main reason for doing so was to continue the spread of slavery throughout North America.
@@Zombie-rj6nd Ever heard of the Abbeville Institute? I suggest looking into their stuff. I also suggest DiLorenzo's "The Real Lincoln" if you want a interesting view. th-cam.com/video/8S96iQYL0bw/w-d-xo.html
I think I just realized how the first drunk comment was written, I think the person was speech to text and didn't bother to double check when they were finished. That explains the words in there with no context and there being only an opening quotation mark, I think they said quote and it put the symbol. Still funny as hell though.
That sounds right. I worked with a TV reporter that used speech to text to fill in his scripts. 80% of them would be fine and the other 20% would be complete nonsense, especially when the speech to text ran into proper names. Anderson would become and her son, that sort of thing. I'm pretty sure Arkansas got turned into I can saw in the drunk comment. The best phrase that the reporter's speech to text spat out was "power steering tire in the chest". I don't even remember what it was supposed to say, but I do remember that every single one of those words was wrong. 🤣
@@nukclear2741 Hey, he can't spend all his time marching and burning. The man still had to eat, take shits, and write reports. Probably had a few minutes on the latrine.
one of the many great features of Atun-Shei is that HE CITES HIS SOURCES! Time and again, the best historical channels cite sources for further reading.
When the Irish born Confederate Gen Patrick Cleburne suggested arming and enlisting black troops in late 1863, he was roundly condemned by fellow generals-WHT Walker, Bragg. He was likewise silenced by Jefferson Davis. Cleburne’s memo was tabled and nearly forgotten.
This is a very enjoyable and informative series of videos. One thing that perhaps is not obvious is that these two characters apparently enjoy each other's company and can hold a (semi)civilised discussion despite their opposing and mutually exclusive opinions. That is perhaps one more lesson for many to learn.
I want to hear some nonsense something like 50,000 blacks served in the Confederate Army. And I was like BS. From what I gather most of the ones that served were laborers,cooks or the tended to the needs of wealthy Confederate officers and soldiers.
@@FlyingAlfredoSaucer Imagine being so racist that it's having black people near you that makes you desert, rather than the possibility of getting shot or blown up.
Lincolnite from Texas, here. I love these videos, not just from a nerdy standpoint, but they make it easier to talk about this with my grey wearing, stars n'bars waving relatives and acquaintances. Every time one of these comes out, I post it on facebook and start spoiling for a fi- I mean, every time one of these videos comes out I get really excited to educate people.
Not trying to be a bit pedantic, but I'm pretty sure no neo-confederate waves the Stars and Bars, they wave the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia
I was watching this in bed on my phone. my wife was sleeping. I laughed so hard when he got drunk and read that message. that I woke her up and you got me in trouble!! I laughed so hard. Thanks
So unrelated to your video, but your videos made me look up my family history to see who fought where. Since I’m from Texas I figured oh yeah they were just confederates. But most of them left for the union. So now I bought a uniform and trying to find a reenactment group to join in the future. I feel someone should represent the few Texans that stayed loyal.
When the states seceded, there were large areas of Union sympathizers. West Texas, northern Arkansas, the Appalachia. In fact, West Virginia is the 32 non-slave Appalachian counties that seceded from Virginia. Two of my ancestors, like 20% of the white men from North Carolina who fought in the Civil War, went over the mountains and served from 1863 to 1865 in the 13th Tennessee Volunteer Cavalry, US Army.
I think the real reason Cleburne could even think of arming the slaves is because he wasn't really a Southerner. He was an Anglo-Irishman who had immigrated to the South, he didn't grow there. He didn't cite slavery as a reason for joining the South, but because the Southerners had accepted him as one of their own. He didn't own slaves nor did he care for its trade. He was pretty much what actual Southerners want to imagine what all of the Confederacy was.
"...and though surviving a New Orleans parade can often make you FEEL like a combat veteran..." how did I miss this chuckleworthy line the first time around. He says it so factually you don't realize he's making a joke at first.
A black man named Robert Smalls was captain of the Confederate gunboat CSS Planter. But only after he stole it first.
He was also one of the main people who pushed Lincoln to adopt an Emancipation Proclamation
He was amazingly brave and cool-headed. He wore a hat and timed his run for freedom in the pre-dawn gloom so observers from shore would not be able to tell he was black. He steered his boat under the shore batteries with his and other slave families below decks, and ran up a white flag when he reached the union blockade.
Unless I missed it there is no movie about this guy. Seriously, why is there no movie about this dude?
they had us in the first half not gonna lie
What an absolute Chad
"If slaves will make good soldiers our whole theory of slavery is wrong." -Howell Cobb. Also known as the biggest self-roast of 1864.
How was it the biggest roast of 1864? I don’t really understand it.
@@raptordoniv6779 Because their theory of slavery was wrong.
@@EdgieAlias oh ok
"The reasons that induce me to recommend the employment of [black] troops at all render the effect of the measures I have suggested upon slavery immaterial, and in my opinion the best means of securing the efficiency and fidelity of this auxiliary force would be to accompany the measure with a well-digested plan of gradual and general emancipation." General Robert E Lee
As you can see, Cobb and his ilk didn't speak for all Confederates. Neither did Cleburne's proposal, which included gradual, universal (Confederate) emancipation, crash against a solid wall of refusal, as it's portrayed in the video as having done. In fact, around 13 senior-ranked officers gave full support to it. Three other senior-ranked officers gave limited support to it.
Contrary to myth, all Southern people don't think exactly alike.
@@wpc9163 and it’s interesting that integration measures in later incarnations of the US Army produced similar civil rights precedents.
'If slaves will make good soldiers our whole theory of slavery is wrong'
They were so close to realising lmao
In that stage where you know you're wrong, but you just won't allow the opportunity to be proven as such. I also have no idea how the idea of being a subservient enlisted man, whose job is to follow orders quickly and well was at all contradictory to their view of African Americans as a "naturally subservient" slave population.
@@warweasel2832 Yeah, even if, at that point, there were doubts in the Confederacy regarding voracity of the foundational theory of slavery, I don't think it would have mattered. They had too much to lose if the institution of slavery was abolished.
@@warweasel2832, because according to Confederates, black people were "subhuman" and fundamentally inferior to white people, which was their justification for enslaving black people. So what that asshole was getting at was that if black people were as good or even better than whites at being soldiers, their feverish ideas of Anglo-Saxon racial superiority would be proven wrong in the most spectacular fashion, and by that extension, their whole idea that, in the words of A. Stephens, slavery is the black man's natural and normal condition, would also be wrong. And we can't have that now, can we?
okay, let’s not pretend the view of American-American people was “naturally subservient” they were seen as stupid, physical inferior, incapable & deserved of servitude. To even be comparable or given the chance to show MORE aptitude than a white man was so threatening that it greatly cost the South the war, let’s be real here.
@@maildaemonTo rephrase your words, they were in too deep, they sunk too much into it, sunk cost fallacy and all that. They couldn’t turn back even if they knew it meant going off a cliff. They were going to commit to it to the very end.
Modern Confederacy apologist: "The Confederacy hired black soldiers! They weren't racist!"
Historical Confederate leader: "How dare you, sir!"
They were racists, because they used as and I'm chattel slavery The Males an Females of the strong Economic South
How dare you? We work so hard on being racist says the confederate soldier
Imagine neo confederate getting a time machine and trying to convince Jefferson Davis to abolish slavery
@@pancytryna9378 lffen the war hadn't came about, the steam tractor was invented in1870. Just think how many farm hands wouldn't have a job.
Don't know what your moniker means nor care. But this country may have not let all the immigration if the war hadn't come. For the country would have had plenty of workers, North & South.
The ex-slaves would have been shipped to Africa, and the Native Americans herded onto rezes. And everyone lived happily ever after. You really believe that, the world is just hunky-dory?
@@carywest9256
Im going to be honest with you, I have no idea what the fuck are you trying to say
Sometimes I unironically forget these two are the same person
That last shot was amazingly well edited for what is essentially an amateur production.
Twin brothers. One raised in the South and the other in the North. The war between brothers boiled down to a single conversation.
@@neilpemberton5523 and now im imagining a Christmas dinner after the war ended and it being awkward for them having to sit across from one another
We can just keep saying they're twins who chose different sides in the war
@@theodoreroosevelt8261 i disagree sir
"If slaves will make good soldiers our whole theory of slavery is wrong." Oh, Cobb, you're so close to the truth...
So close, yet so far...
Imagine telling others on their history cuz your so focused on slavery even though slavery in the south was never a conversation in 1858 only slavery in the west. Maybe you should understand the relationships between slaves and their owners in the south at that time. Yes some were bad but most were raised in that family and were treated as such, also another reason most slaves continued to live and work on plantations after 1865 plus most they had no other way of survival than to stay
@@rileyfair5 Where did you learn that most slaves were treated like family or that slavery in the south wasn't up for debate in 1858? Both of those couldn't be further from the truth.
@@Mark-sl4bw no I said slavery in the south wasnt the debate in that time. And by doing my own research. Reading what former slaves have said about their owners. Try listening to HK his family were actually slaves in I think north or south Carolina. Dont be bias when learning our history. Victors dont always speak the truth th-cam.com/video/BUw_P6w8Rdw/w-d-xo.html
I always thought he was spot on. Former slaves made excellent soldiers, just ask General Grant about the 200,000 serving in the Union armies. And yes, Mr. Cobb, your "whole theory of slavery is wrong." So he was 100% right.
I tried to name a more iconic duo, but I could not :(
It's always cool to see two youtubers you watch commenting on eachothers videos, a rare but great sight
Communism and starvation
Justine and Tabitha
A JJ and Atun-Shei collab would blow the pants off of my mind legs.
@@joshuafan4419 He cameoed in one of my flag videos!
The Wii U lasted longer than the confederacy
And it was 69420 times better
@@knuckl6972 "funnee redditor number"
@@satan1189 lmfao
Sorry for taking away your 69 but I couldn't not like this comment
O o f
"As this Facebook meme clearly demonstrates..." is the level of proof that most people seem to be satisfied with these days, tbh.
“It is however of primary importance that the Africans should know that the service is voluntary on their part. As to the name of the troops, the general thinks you cannot do better than consult the men themselves. His only objection to calling them colored troops was that the enemy had selected that designation for theirs. But this has no weight against the choice of the troops and he recommends that they be called colored or if they prefer, they can be called simply Confederate troops or volunteers. Everything should be done to impress them with the responsibility and character of their position, and while of course due respect and subordination should be exacted, they should be so treated as to feel that their obligations are those of any other soldier and their rights and privileges dependent in law & order as obligations upon others as upon theirselves. Harshness and contemptuous or offensive language or conduct to them must be forbidden and they should be made to forget as soon as possible that they were regarded as menials. You will readily understand however how to conciliate their good will & elevate the tone and character of the men” - Robert E Lee to General Ewell on black confederate soldiers
@@bowen1704 Oh, wow, one lofty quote out of line with the reality of the situation has totally changed my mind on this whole complex issue. Thank you for enlightening me
“Lee viewed slavery as a evil.” - Historians Douglas Cohn and Jim Kelly
“In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country.” - Robert E Lee 1856
“While we see the Course of the final abolition of human slavery is onward, & we give it the aid of our prayers & all justifiable means in our power we must leave the progress as well as the result in his hands who Sees the end” - Robert E Lee 1856
“I am rejoiced that slavery is abolished. I believe it will be greatly for the interests of the South. So fully am I satisfied of this, as regards Virginia especially, that I would cheerfully have lost all I have lost by the war, and have suffered all I have suffered, to have this object attained.” - Robert E Lee 1865
“I can anticipate no greater calamity for the country than a dissolution of the Union. It would be an accumulation of all the evils we complain of, and I am willing to sacrifice anything but honor for its preservation.” Robert E Lee 1861
“During my research, came across instances where black men stated they were soldiers. Soldiers were clearly crossed out and body servant or teamster on pension applications replaced it.” - Black Historian Ervin Jordan
I can assure you, that the gallant hearts that throb beneath its sacred folds, will only be content, when this glorious banner is planted first and foremost in the coming struggle for our independence. - John Bell Hood
“For my part, I have no hesitancy from the first that, right or wrong, alone or otherwise, I go with Virginia.” - JEB Stuart
“I would rather be a private in Virginia’s army than a general in any army that was going to coerce her.” - JEB Stuart
@@bowen1704 Wow, even more quotes! I'm definitely convinced of the righteousness of the southern cause now. I will now be erecting a Confederate flag outside my house so I can show poor hapless Yankees the error of their ways. Thank you for your service
@@BarkyLondon Don’t forget old glory. “Raise your children to love the United States.” - Robert E Lee
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I really appreciate the relationship between Johnny Rebel and Billy Yank. They disagree on a pretty fundamental level, and frankly Billy Yank would have every right to treat Johnny Rebel as little more than a racist revisionist; but instead, he recognizes that Johnny Rebel is essentially just ignorant of the facts, wanting to believe a version of events that will make him proud of his heritage. They get along very well, telling jokes and giving each other gifts. It speaks to the idea that you'll change more minds through kindness and level-headedness than you ever will through vitriol and anger--yelling at people for people for being stupid might make you feel superior, but it's also the fastest way to make sure someone never listens to a word you say.
This guy gets it
Being born and raised from the South, and having argued with lost causers my whole life, I couldn't agree more.
Excellent insight. Also speaks to Andy’s brilliance.
Well... other than shooting him in the first episode! 😂
@@depthsofpentecost2973 he got better
The amount of effort and talent it takes to write, shoot, and act this is ridiculous, we need to give this man more money and influence.
And getting the timing just right must be a pain in the ass
I'll take the money but could do without the influence. Merry Christmas!
@@AtunSheiFilms what about woman and drugs?
@@alexmorris6954 give him money and he can have those too!
@@alexmorris6954 he has a girlfriend lol
I appreciate the fact that you portray Johhny Reb as someone fundamentally decent, holding no actual racist or bigoted views, and genuinely just wants to believe his ancestors and people *weren't* those things. Even the "questionable" views he does hold seem to come from a place of genuine ignorance rather than malice. It would've been so much easier to write him as trailer-trash, and I cannot say how much it pleases me you didn't.
He's gotten better ever since the VVitchfinder-General exorcised the Nazi out of him.
To be fair Johnny Reb did hold some pretty racists views early on but that was because he was possessed by Klaus the Nazi but the Witchfinder General exorcised him and he’s been less racists ever since.
@@KennyHazy97 atun shei lore
I don't think Atun Shei holds much respect or empathy for his Johnny Reb character. Reb is constantly belittled, proven wrong and portrayed as a wacko who constantly nitpicks historic accounts and refuses to accept the fact that his views are wrong in any way. Johnny Reb is mostly characterized as the whitey lost causer trailer-trash he is parodying, a strawman who deserves no mercy or actual empathy. If the writer thought he were deserving of any respect then each episode would spend some more time understanding why Reb believes in the Lost Cause Myth. Reb himself has said he was a slave owner, solidifying even more his scumbag nature. Put simply he *is* written as a bad person who deserves to be gunned down, he was in the first episode actually.
@@brandonmorel2658 Well what exactly do you want him to say? That Johnny Reb is a genius who is completely correct in his views on the Confederacy and its reasons?
The reality is, if you seriously looked at the Confederate States of America, you look at what they themselves said their cause was, look at what they were in effect fighting for, you would have to be an idiot to seriously believe that they had anything resembling a just cause. You can respect their determination and willingness to fight, their perseverance in the face of terrible battlefield conditions. Their resolve to keep fighting even as the war devastated their homes. But at the end of the day, you have to acknowledge the simple fact that they were fighting for an unjust cause and that if they had won, the world would objectively have been worse off for it. And if you cannot acknowledge that, if you cannot acknowledge slavery as a defining characteristic of the Confederate struggle, even as the Confederate states themselves admitted it to be, well then... I'm sorry to blunt but you are a moron.
Frankly, at that point, I'd have more respect for you if you acknowledged slavery as a cause and actually endorsed slavery as an institution. Because at least then, you're not willfully blind to the truth. You just... take a very very very different moral lesson from those facts. If nothing else, I can always respect Thucydides' maxim about the strong inevitably dominating the weak. Even if many of us may find that view to not be ethically palatable.
My Dad liked to watch your channel before he passed, he said he liked you because you 'tell it like it is'
My condolences. Death sucks.
@@AtunSheiFilms Both Unionites and Confederates can agree
Death sucks
@J. E. B. Stuart you are a disgrace to Gen. J.E.B. Stuart name.
@@JimbobZ17 snowflake ❄️
I’m sorry for your loss.
"My confederate ancestor wasn't racist, he had black friends."
In fact some of his closest friends were black.
"Yea. We loved Aunt Betty! She raised all of my family. Had to whip her a few times to teach her to behave, but you know how it is. We love black people!"
@@thewest8630 "...and they love us! And the Confederacy."
@@Wheninrome6042 uhm.. yeah? That's the joke lol
@@Wheninrome6042 Which the Dumbest shit I ever heard in my life
I love how even the small jokes on this channel, in this case exchanging coffee and tobacco (related products), have historical precedent.
Thank god I wasn't the only one who noticed the historical value of the gift giving scene (as those are the exact same products the Union and Confederacy secretly gave to the other side)
I bought Cafe Du Monde Coffee and Chicorie after I watch this
He gave him Folgers; I do not think that counts as coffee.
@@kennethfharkin shut up lol 😂😂😂
@@kennethfharkin hey, in the wartime South, a can of Folgers would have been as valuable as a kilo of cocaine.
What I find funny is his dissing of chicory coffee, since that’s still a New Orleans thing today (albeit mixed with real coffee, iirc)
Confederates: “We can’t be racist, we have black men fighting for us!”
Slaves: “We don’t want to fight-“
Confederates: “Shut up!”
You think the black soldiers in the Union had a choice to fight? Surely there was slavery, but that didn't cause the civil war. Back then, slavery was still legal in every state.
@@omegatafkal man, read the fucking secession documents of those states. Nearly all mention slavery. Also the Cornerstone speech
@@omegatafkaland sure it was legal but spousal rape was until the late eighties but it wasn’t socially acceptable
@@omegatafkalyes they did in fact have a choice.
@@omegatafkal No it wasn't, at least, not the kind you're speaking of.
It's literally the point of the Dred v. Scott (Does a slave's status as property become null if they are in a location where it is illegal for them to be property).
I met a deep southerner from Tennessee once that had a southern unionist ancestor and was dang proud of it. He talked about how his ancestor was amongst the few locals from his small town being friendly and welcoming towards local ex-slaves after the war ended.
That's awsome
I wish I had a Southern unionist ancestor. For my family, our Southern cousins in Louisiana blamed us for them losing all their slaves during the war and making them poor (they had borrowed heavily on their slaves as collateral and thus lost all their land due to excessive debt). We didn't have a proper family reunion with both Northern and Southern branches until the late 1970's. Then sometime in 2003, we discovered we had black relatives (due to our Southern cousins' fondness for raping their slaves) and my grandmother invited them to join the family reunions. Which sparked a big debate, and a good portion of my Southern relatives refusing to come back to the family reunions. As you can guess, the ones most adverse to spending time with our black cousins are the biggest lost causers.
@@MalrexMontresor my uncle even hangs a Virginia battle flag in his barn, despite having no traitor heritage whatsoever, I can't even fathom this kind of stupidity
@@thiccfucka69xxx I've always wondered about this dynamic of people with zero Southern heritage and only Union ancestors supporting the Confederacy. Ultimately, it comes down to only two reasons: 1. They have completely fallen for Lost Cause propaganda and believe that the CSA was fighting for "State's Rights". 2. Or they are racist and actually believe slavery was a good thing.
@@MalrexMontresor bit of both for them unfortunately
This is the best Christmas gift since Sherman gave Lincoln Savannah
Murmur is a good album
It certainly is but I am missing the relevance to this conversation, unless you believe it's universally relevant.
Confederate Capitan: "Poor Silas, they captured him! Those yankees are probably torturing him for information"
Soldier: "Isn't that your slave, sir?"
Confederate Capitan: "Ha! We are save! Silas infiltrated the enemy army to betray them before they overwhelm us"
Soldier: "They are charging, sir"
Confederate Capitan: "Any second Now"
Soldier: "He is aiming at you, sir"
Confederate Capitan: "Any second Now"
*POP*
@@manperson5315 Silas, y u do dis?
@@509Gman
You aren't using the right words.
Et tu Silas.
*BANG*
@@509Gman Silas! You were black all this time?
The most unrealistic thing about these series is how the confederate guy just sits there and lets you talk. usually you get 3 to 4 words out and they are all ready screaming
Clearly these two were friends before the war
Word? How many confederate soldiers have you conversed with in your life?
@@williamblackfyre4866 I've talked to quite a few people who are pro confederacy, which I thought was the implied meaning. I apologize I'll make sure I'm incredibly clear and persice next time
@@Earlesstag ok, but would you still call someone that is pro confederacy, a confederate? That is what I was hung up on. I'm not sure if it's a typo or you say it funny so you spelled it different, but it's 'precise' not per.
@@williamblackfyre4866 shut
Anyone else notice with every checkmate lincolnites, he starts to climb the ranks in the Union army?
Wait. You right.
Haha yes. I suppose at the end of CL he'll have General's stars. 😄
Oh shit I think he's after my rank
@General Sherman 😂😂
@@generalsherman1213 don't worry Sherman.....
You and grant are still my favorite guys.....
I know it all went down-hill afterwards, but I truly think it's nice that Johnny Reb got him a present.
Hey it’s Christmas.
Way I see it, if he really hated his opposite number that much, he’d just stop showing up.
So cool that J. Reb got drunk totally runingin the intro and I LOVE IT
Really liked the ending as well .
When they're not arguing over who's side is right they're surprisingly wholesome
"As diverse as a college admissions photo." So exactly one Black guy appearing in every photo? Great line.
@@MatthewChenault come on dude, give it up
@@brandonk.4864 Well, he isn’t wrong about most Union regiments. The US Army was segregated for decades after the Civil War. I can’t speak of “most left wing circles” because I am not part of “left wing circles”, and I doubt Matthew is either.
@@zekedia2223 it’s not that Matthew Chenault is wrong, but it’s just trying to save face for the confederacy. Here I’ll give you an example :
‘Oh yeah! The Yankees segregated their troops, and were racists! Meanwhile our southern brethren fought alongside colored ‘troops’! What’s that? Confederacy fighting for the rights to own slaves? You know northerners had slaves! What do you mean they’re the ones who fought for and ratified the 13th amendment?’
See what I mean?
@@internetman1213 Yeah, I know what you mean, Mr. Internet Man.
The way he said "Photo" remined me of the "Chillin' yearing for freedom yankee tyranny"
Honestly, the more I hear about lost cause myths, the more I think that the most fatal concoction to a lost cause believer would be that which would allow any confederate politician or army officer to ressurect for as little as 15 minutes.
The phrase "Never meet your heroes" would never be more true than that.
This should be interesting with recent developments in the attunshei cinematic universe.
@@Destroyer_V0 johnny is about to learn the meaning of "never meet your heroes"
@@lightmetro7508 Indeed
I think if you listened to both music on both sides the union and the Confederacy it paints a picture we cant just say slavery was the only cause for it cuz it wasn't it was one of many reason for the war. More than anything it was cultural difference between north and South. Listen to im good ole rebel 2nd south Carolina string band and Southern soldier by 2nd Carolina string band. Every Confederate had their reason for picking up Arms for dixie and you know what if it had to be done again god damn it it would be apart of it. Im not a racist i just have my veiws on government and America aint gotten better its gotten worse.
"Help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope."
-Johnny Reb, Dec. 2020
"And remember, Catholics and Quakers worship the devil and should be killed" -General Kenobi
*"THE CONFDERACY OF INDEPENDENT SYSTEMS, ARE WRETCHED SINNERS, UNWORTHY OF THE FORCE'S LOVE!!!"*
God damnit! Why did it take me so LONG to figure out that JOKE!
Shouldn't have used Prequel Obi-Wan.
HELLO THERE!!!!!!!!
Getting drunk in order to read that viewer comment correctly was fabulous enough to earn a like right there!
"It's [Christmas is] a vile pagan holiday and everyone who celebrates it is going to hell."
I had to pause for a second. I was like now way, holy hell this comment is as bad as it's said.
It earned my subscription
Southerner here, I love this. Definitely agree that the Confederacy was wrong and was formed upon slavery. But Mr. Reb, please never concede, we need more of this amazing series!
sherman didn’t burn enough we should have charged every single traitor that killed innocent american men protecting the union
@@Bushwackinggroyper WHOAH okay then
That's uncalled for
The rebel is called Johnny and the Union one is called billy yank
@@kaidenhall2718 yeah, johnny reb
Shame he only plans on making 10 total
The biggest thing that disproves the idea of black confederate soldiers is the lack of documentation.
If they were in fact soldiers, what was their rank? What was the highest rank a black confederate soldier ever recived and who received it?
Where is the contract? All enlisting members have to sign a contract. What is the length of the contract? What regiment were they assigned to? Who was their commanding officer?
And every soldier is given compensation for their contract? What was their pay? How did the confederacy send money to the bank accounts?
And were they're any disciplinary actions taken on these soldiers? This shit is documented. Even in the union. So the idea that they would be seen as soldiers...is entirely without merit. And if there were, why don't we have statues in the south about them?
Let me be clear that the following are just a small example of proof that blacks served in the confederacy. I also want to state for the record that i know that all slaves were not treated fairly and i want to also let it be known i DO NOT, HAVE NOT be a proponnent of slavery that it is a horrible instituition
At least one Black Confederate was a non-commissioned officer. James Washington, Co. D 34th Texas Cavalry, “Terrell’s Texas Cavalry” became it’s 3rd Sergeant. In comparison, The highest-ranking Black Union soldier during the war was a Sergeant Major.
Free black musicians, cooks, soldiers and teamsters earned the same pay as white confederate privates. This was not the case in the Union army where blacks did not receive equal pay. At the Confederate Buffalo Forge in Rockbridge County, Virginia, skilled black workers “earned on average three times the wages of white Confederate soldiers and more than most Confederate army officers ($350-$600 a year).
Nearly 180,000 Black Southerners, from Virginia alone, provided logistical support for the Confederate military. Many were highly skilled workers. These included a wide range of jobs: nurses, military engineers, teamsters, ordnance department workers, brakemen, firemen, harness makers, blacksmiths, wagonmakers, boatmen, mechanics, wheelwrights, etc. In the 1920’S Confederate pensions were finally allowed to those workers that were still living. Many thousands more served in other Confederate States.
The first military monument in the US Capitol that honors an African-American soldier is the Confederate monument at Arlington National cemetery. The monument was designed 1914 by Moses Ezekiel, a Jewish Confederate, who wanted to correctly portray the “racial makeup” in the Confederate Army. A black Confederate soldier is depicted marching in step with white Confederate soldiers. Also shown is one “white soldier giving his child to a black woman for protection”. - Source: Edward Smith, African American professor at the American University, Washington DC.
Black Confederate heritage is beginning to receive the attention it deserves. For instance, Terri Williams, a black journalist for the Suffolk “Virginia Pilot” newspaper, writes: “I’ve had to re-examine my feelings toward the [Confederate] flag…It started when I read a newspaper article about an elderly black man whose ancestor worked with the Confederate forces. The man spoke with pride about his family member’s contribution to the cause, was photographed with the [Confederate] flag draped over his lap…that’s why I now have no definite stand on just what the flag symbolizes, because it no longer is their history, or my history, but our history.”
sources
Charles Kelly Barrow, et. al. Forgotten Confederates: An Anthology About Black Southerners (1995). Currently the best book on the subject.
Ervin L. Jordan, Jr. Black Confederates and Afro-Yankees in Civil War Virginia (1995). Well researched and very good source of information on Black Confederates, but has a strong Union bias.
Richard Rollins. Black Southerners in Gray (1994). Also an excellent source.
Dr. Edward Smith and Nelson Winbush, “Black Southern Heritage”. An excellent educational video. Mr. Winbush is a descendent of a Black Confederate and a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV).
@@chestydajarhead
Lmao you're literally defending slavery.
Also the people who were "workers" were slaves and unpaid.
James Washington being a black confederate doesn't seem to be evidenced anywhere i can see, where are you getting this from?
That statue you're referring to about "the racial makeup" of the confederates army depicts a slave helping white owners.
"The Confederate Memorial at Arlington National Cemetery includes a depiction of an enslaved black woman holding the child of a white"
And then the last paragraph is conjecture
@@dillonblair6491 I'm sorry i didn't know that your reading skills were not able to pick up the part where i wrote that i am not a proponent of slavery .....also that you are not correct in your statements ,please learn to read and do research before your ignorant mouth makes you a fool
@@chestydajarheadNothing but anecdotal evidence.
180,00 support staff are not soldiers. They were (as this video mentions) slaves serving their masters. None were paid. None had ranks. None of them were official Confederate soldiers.
As OP says, any real soldiers would've been officially documented to some degree, yet none are.
If slaves make good soldiers, then the entire theory of slavery is wrong.
There is nothing an American southerner like me likes more than a good history lesson 🇺🇸
What about a drink?
@@samkangal8428 Or a nice joint?
same haha. im from Texas and i love this series
@@kaminsod4077 i would take both😈
Or deep southern fried food message from Arkansas
I like that the chess set itself contradicts the “northern aggression” myth, given that in chess white makes the first move
The colors are also appropiate, given that the Union ended up freeing the (black) slaves, and the Confederacy fought for.. you know.
@@SidheKnight staterights?
There is no way you actually believe the colors have anything to do with racism the game is over 1500 years old the colors are a simple result of black and white material being both easier to obtain and easier to differentiate.
When you play chess you can have black make the first move, no one is going to hurt you. Me and my friends flip coins to decide who goes first.
@@levimalone4433 Of course I don't believe the colors are racist.
I just thought it was oddly appropiate that the Confederate side played with white pieces since, you know, the whole white supremacy thing, and the Union gets the black pieces, which is fitting since they ended up freeing the black slaves.
The fact that, customarily, white plays first (just like the South attacked first) is the cherry on top.
@@levimalone4433 1. Modern chess is only 500 Years old, Three where others Version before, but chess as we now it, is from the 15.Century.
2. You can flip coins, but white goes first. This is the rule, you can play it with other rule, but is it chess then?
Merry Christmas Atun-Shei you Carpet Bagging Blue-Belly
This was probably THE biggest myth I used to believe to be true. I even remember doing a school project and finding so many websites peddling this info with pictures and everything. My teacher didn't even tell me I was wrong... It's a shame America waits until the college level to teach critical thinking skills, as well as the listing and vetting of sources.
I would argue even colleges don’t teach critical thinking but that depends on your professor
Critical thinking, you mean **looks through DeSantis-approved dictionary** communism
😊😊
It's a shame you had to go to college to realize Black Confederate soldiers is a bunch of BS.😂
So in all that learning you never heard of holt collier, or William ellison son lol. Looks like you didn't try very hard
the coffee gag as a transition into the first comment is fucking brilliant
I was wondering where he was going with the elaborate set up. Worth the wait!
@@granderonde599 I kinda just assumed it was one long attempt at taking the piss out of Gods and Generals
even better than the Folgers incest commercial reference?
@@bastage5932 I thought it was a sponsor or something lMAO
I'm a simple man. I see a notification from Atun-Shei: I drop everything and watch.
I hate how much this has filled comments pages.
@@johnnotrealname8168 but in this tis true
@@wierdalien1 It is overused. Hence the frustration, like people complaining about modern pop in old time music, and how cultured they are. It is true but monotonous.
@@johnnotrealname8168 i mean, they arent right there.
Having Ewan McGregor as God answering Johnny Reb's prayer had me in stitches. Great video sir, and as always:
Thou art a wretched sinner, utterly unworthy of God's love. A fountain o' pollution is deep within thy nature, and thou livest as a winter tree, unprofitable, fit only to be hewn down and burned. Steep thy life in prayer, and hope that God sees fit to show mercy upon thy corrupted soul.
There's a meme out there with obi wan in a picture frame and the caption says " grandma, that's not Jesus." XD
Does that mean Darth Maul is the Devil?
@@joshuawells835 Nah Darth Maul was never really as evil as he seemed to be. Sure he wasn't a good guy or anything. But he didn't have a choice in the matter to become Palpatine apprentice as his mother was promised that position but then Palpatine just grabbed Maul one day and decided he would become his apprentice. After Phantom Menace he lost his mind for awhile and after regaining it decided to take over the crime syndicate and Mandalore in order gain enough power to take his revenge on Obi Wan and over throw Palpatine. But he was defeated by Palpatine and kept captive until the group of Mandalorians he was the leader of rescued him. After that his goal was to lure Obi Wan to Mandalore so he could kill Anakin as he knew that Anakin was to become the apprantice of Palpatine and that they would rule over the galaxy. He tried to convince Ahsoka to join him and she was going to until she asked him what he wanted with Anakin and he told her but she refused to believe that Anakin would join the Sith. He was then beaten by Ahsoka and captured but after Order 66 was ordered to happen Ahsoka let Maul escape because she needed someone to create a distraction. He then escaped and went back to leading his crime syndicate.
So Palpatine is the devil and Maul is just more like some guy who was tricked by the devil. Only way you could call Maul the devil is if you decide to call Palpatine God. As Lucifer aka the Devil rebelled against his father god and was cast out for doing so. And Maul did rebel against Palpatine and was cast out by him.
@@wisewolftony Fair, however, Maul himself would disagree, as he said he chose to become a Sith, only for it to turn on him. It was his choice, even as it was chosen for him. Rewatch the scene in the Mandalorian throne room when he kills Satine.
Whites fighting for the North: “I’m fighting to preserve the Union!”
Whites fighting for the South: “I’m fighting for state’s rights!”
Blacks fighting for the North: “I’m fighting for my fucking life!”
Blacks fighting for the South: “I don’t even wanna be here bruh”
A state's right to what? 😏
@@nicholashollis1522 lmao
@@nicholashollis1522 Certainly not the Northern states' rights to refuse to hand over escaped slaves!
@Leonard squirrel Eh, it was more to keep the USA together than anything else
@@morsecode980 as the war progressed, abolition became a major goal for the Union army, especially for the soldiers on the ground who saw firsthand the condition slaves lived it
He actually does a pretty good job trying to argue for the Confederate cause, it's not like he's only addressing one thing, he's trying to find the best evidence for the Confederacy.
Yeah, because if you don’t present the absolutely strongest version of an argument you are rebutting you leave your rebuttal vulnerable to some flaw that you overlooked. It’s the inverse of a strawman.
@@stevendorries I believe the technical term is “steelman”.
@@sciencealltheway ironman
@@Lordmun445 Fe-man
My professor told me the best way to win an argument is to actually be right, and that you can't even know what is right unless you know the issues to the fullest extent. Big reason I like this channel, use of sources and it's never one sided.
Best Christmas present I could have asked for, more Checkmate, Lincolinites.
Me to
So agree!
Truly, a christmas gift for all
I agree.
Graham Hancock is the truth
Who wants to believe a lie.
"And though survivng a New Orleans parade can make you feel like a combat veteran, this unit never saw any real action" love this
Does a soldier have to be in combat to be a soldier? Surely enlistment alone confers the status of soldier on him.
Things that have happened in “Checkmate, Lincolnites!”:
-Immortal (?) Confederate soldier who gets resurrected
-Possession by a Nazi archeologist of said Confederate
-An exorcism preformed by a VVitchfinder General from Puritan times
-Advertisements at gunpoint
-Obi-God Kenobi
-Whatever the fuck Andy was watching at the start of the episode on tariffs
Far more than mere education!
You forgot:
--Drunk Confederate officer (Christmas Episode)
--Confederate being threatened at gun point (Sherman Episode)
--Racist o'meter goign nuts in the end (Poilot Episode)
--No they did not, yes they did, NO THEY DID NOT, NO, NO, NO SIR, NO (Fight for Slavery Episode)
FROM SPACE! (Sherman Ep)
Why did you have to remind me of that video from the Tariffs!? UGGHHH
Don’t forget the weird Nazi erotica!
To say black people were an integral part of Confederate units was to say that horses and livestock were equally integral to the Confederate army. Before the advent of mechanisation (and even some time after) armies literally could do nothing without horses and mules as they hauled vital supplies like food, ammunition, etc. But that didn't mean they fought in the front lines or didn't get whipped when they weren't moving fast enough.
@Maximus Brutus Your "logic" (and I deliberately use scare quotes to denote it is the opposite of actual logic) is easily shown to be faulty and disproved. Saying that because livestock were whipped, and British soldiers were whipped, ergo "British soldiers were livestock" is foolish sophistry that ignores basic facts.
Whipping was not an uncommon punishment of that era. A slave could be whipped not only for punishment but for any reason, including to make them work harder, like livestock. British soldiers were flogged for punishment solely as a function of military discipline and it's use was limited (if it was used at all) by law after 1811; by 1868 it was used only for a unit in wartime. Much of the time this punishment was no doubt unfair, but still a legal punishment meted out by order of a court martial with some due process. It's materially different than some random farmer whipping livestock. The farmer is certainly not doing it because the livestock committed some infraction as an example to the other cattle.
If that weren't enough of a difference for you, every goddamn British soldier still had the rights of an Englishman under the law. Slaves fundamentally had no individual rights under the law.
@@TheGuitarReb No kidding! I bet you were thankful. Did they send you to Europe or Viet Nam? Or elsewhere?
@@TheGuitarReb My apologies, I understand. I just didn't want to mistakenly assume you were, because not everyone who served in the US Army at the time were sent there.
Black Confederates served in militias, the navy, artillery throughout the war and in 1865 they were allowed in the regular ranks.
“It is however of primary importance that the Africans should know that the service is voluntary on their part. As to the name of the troops, the general thinks you cannot do better than consult the men themselves. His only objection to calling them colored troops was that the enemy had selected that designation for theirs. But this has no weight against the choice of the troops and he recommends that they be called colored or if they prefer, they can be called simply Confederate troops or volunteers. Everything should be done to impress them with the responsibility and character of their position, and while of course due respect and subordination should be exacted, they should be so treated as to feel that their obligations are those of any other soldier and their rights and privileges dependent in law & order as obligations upon others as upon theirselves. Harshness and contemptuous or offensive language or conduct to them must be forbidden and they should be made to forget as soon as possible that they were regarded as menials. You will readily understand however how to conciliate their good will & elevate the tone and character of the men” - Robert E Lee to General Ewell on black confederate soldiers
The next installment of my favorite Atun-Shei series. No wrapping necessary...thank you for the wonderful holiday gift! And thank you Atun-Shei films for a great 2020. Looking forward to 2021, stay safe!
I love that the intro is very historically accurate. I heard there was a huge black market trade of coffee and tobacco during the Civil War
I believe it is part of the reason why chicory in coffee is popular in New Orleans.
@@Andandand25 And not because it is a laxitive?
@@Andandand25 no.
Chicory was popularized because of the blokade which also caused the black market.
They didn't have any regular coffee so tried to make do with that
Roasted okra seeds were used as a coffee substitute
The hell that confederates doing in a black market? Thought they didn't like that stuff /j
This should be really easy to prove. Lost Causers should be able to point to regiments in the Confederate order of battle, not resorting to these random collections of sources. Unless they actually want us to believe that the Confederate Army was desegregated when the Union's wasn't lol. Which they might actually attempt knowing them. There's also the fact that even if they were right and black soldiers fought for the Confederacy it still wouldn't prove the war wasn't about slavery lmao. It's wrong and it's pointless.
There actually are some people who claim the Confederate army was desegregated. Or that blacks were "officially" prohibited from enlisting,* but because Confederate officers were just so cool and chill they let blacks fight for them anyway.
There are some Lost Cause myths that are reasonable but misguided, misleading or simplistic. This one is just wrong, wrong, wrong - the mental gymnastics are astounding.
*EDIT: As soldiers, that is. Like I said in the video some free blacks enlisted as musicians, cooks, etc.
@@AtunSheiFilms Try reading "towards the end of the war, Southern Officers were so desperate they didn't look very close." {could be. there's a lot of "half Breed" enlisted. didn't say who. {and my family said "half white" when the last white was in the seventeenth century. We fought for the Union. But you're treading on hate now. Try to talk to a few southerners. We don't bite.} [ok, usually don't bite. Bark a lot}
@@AtunSheiFilms Since you had "Godly McGregor:" 2 Timothy 4:3: people 'want their ears tickled.'
Basically, anything that contradicts a belief, a person wants to dump from their mind.
I think 'shrinks' call the phenomenon "confirmation bias."
But yeah, the gymnastics are amazing and super creative.
Holt Collier , John Nolan,Bass Reeves , Amos Rucker ,, read learn , enough said
"Misinterpreting interpretation is the name, revisionising is the game."
-Probably the UDC
“As this Facebook meme clearly indicates.”
fakt
Had a debate with an anti-masker who almost did the same shit verbatim. This was after they told me to stop watching CNN, of course.
@@EdgieAlias even though the rally the debater stood behind is asinine, the advice he gives rings true. If you value unbiased news information then I highly suggest to stick to other mediums other than C.N.N.
@@naughtybear2187 ok name those media outlets. Tell us where you get your "unbiased" media. 😅🤣😂
@@palestalemale8831 idk how about you look into that on your own accord. I like how I told you to think for yourself and you still end up asking me on how to do that. 😅🤣😂
"If slaves will make good soldiers then our whole theory of slavery is wrong"
So apparently they had self-aware wolves in the 19th century too
What?
What?
Wolves??
Please don’t insult wolves like that.
“Our great and glorious Confederacy was as diverse as a college admissions photo.”
That made me laugh.
Though I will say in the Silas Chandler photo the white guy looks FAR more scared than Silas.
They also looked extremely close, if you know what I mean...
@@BadWebDiverthought that too
This might be the best episode of "Checkmate, Lincolnites!" yet. The ending was so wholesome! I'm actually starting to see some character development in Johnny Reb, he kinda accepted losing the argument in the end here. I wonder if the next episode will be about the Native Confederates (or rather the Native/Indigenous Americans in the Civil War in general)? At least in that case poor Johnny will have some better footing.
Also, the topic covered this time makes me even more curious about your opinion of the 1999 movie Ride with the Devil, because the "exceptionally loyal slave fighting with his master" motive was featured there in a nuanced way if I remember correctly (it was a long time since I watched that movie).
I want the next video to be about Robert e lee . There’s a lot of stuff surrounding him and I wonder how much of it is true or not.
I think this video actually shown that Confederates are still flawed humans just like the rest of us
Yes.
Artur M. you’re under almost every history video on TH-cam I’ve watched.
@@BB-hx4mj I'm trying my best. Now it's a struggle more than ever because I got Kingdom Come: Deliverance for Christmas. I mean I'm very busy with serious work. 😅
Honestly this man is doing the country a service by debunking this "Lost Cause" bs. I tip my blue hat to you sir!
I like blue hats the only grey hats I like are ushankas
Yes and there was a time i nearly fell for the Lost Cause bs but thankfully this channel steered me in the right direction
@@EpicMetalTime you shouldn't let one person decide your views historical or otherwise. Atun is smart but he has his own perspective and therefore bias towards the civil war just as any gentleman should.
What's the lost cause myth?
@@thepunisher8676 A myth formed after the Civil War that the Confederacy was not fighting for slavery but for some other more justifiable reason like states rights, tariffs, or Union "tyranny" in an effort to save face.
This is by far the most level headed Johnny has been portrayed, and his arguments still get trashed lol, goes to show calm and confident doesn't equal correct. Great video as always!
The man loves his union counterpart likea Brother, No Homo.
Johnny gradually gets better at arguing as the series progresses, he really shines in the Sherman episode.
@@Reagan1984 I like that they grow to respect each other.
@@Reagan1984 although his crazy cuukoo line in the end was pretty funny.
It’s because wwitchvvinder man exorcised the nazi from Johnny, which caused his head to level
The fact he's able to recite these unhinged comments while holding the accent and not breaking out laughing is a feet of great power.
I don't know who you got to voice Douglas, but he somehow was able to get a healthy mix between Morgan Freeman and Darth Vader, and it's amazing.
By Darth Vader, I take it that you mean James Earl Jones?
@@jeffbenton6183 I assume he means specifically the voice James Earl Jones uses as Darth Vader. It isn't his standard speaking voice, though it is close.
Funny how every mention of slavery by a confederate supporter always says the majority of slaves were happy. My only question is, would you give up all of the agency in your life and your children’s lives to serve someone else, no matter how good they treat you?
Hmmm... Well this focuses the attention on the wrong thing regardless, but I think it is a clue as to how they are regarding their black brethren as "other," since it is typically the conservative mindset that self-reliance is the best thing, not only to be admired but pursued, or even _enforced_ to be considered a man, if not a true American. In that sense incessantly proselytizing these qualities to other Americans while denying this imaginary "kind" slavery's antithesis to that betrays their true feelings about black people. As if their defense of the historical evil of slavery wasn't enough to do that in the first place.
Hell no
@@heroic9631 Yes, slavery was an expensive practice that could only be maintained if you were making enough to profit off of slave labor to begin with.
It is very odd how Americans have always grappled with the moral principles in the Declaration of Independence. They love the document when they think of their family and friends, but as soon as they start thinking of the “others,” then they often like to search for loopholes in those principles.
A lot of people throughout life has shown willingness to dedicate his life to a greater cause.
It is nothing new people prefering to obey the orders from someone they like than 'having their own will'.
So...
Saying the confederacy isn't racist because there were black Confederates is like saying the SS was tolerant because they had volunteers and "suggested volunteers" from Eastern Europe.
CHECKMATE ALLIES
There were Muslim SS, and the Japanese were honorary Aryans.
Pretty much telling how Nazi race theories were mumbo jumbo changing according to their political needs.
The well known SS motto "diversity is our strength"
@@MrRemicas they also claimed the Finns had been "aryanised" due to the positive influence of Finland-Swedes on the country
You're using the term "racist" incorrectly.
@@TSimo113 how so?
"As this facebook meme clearly demonstrates"
Hard to argue with that kind of robust evidence.
facebook memes or written and spoken words from actual confederates. I think we all know which one is more relevant
What a fantastic episode. Thank you, Andy, for your all your hard work in bringing the truth to us. You call yourself an "okay" actor but I think you're a great actor. To make us believe you're talking to something besides a blank chair takes skill. Bravo.
Plus, Ewan MacGregor and "Hello there"? *chef's kiss*
I like to think Billy Yank died in the war and is stuck in hell being forced to debate Jonny Reb for all eternity
Maybe Billy is one of Sherman’s men and Johnny is one of the guys that kidnapped free blacks in PA.
It would explain Billy being possessed in the last episode.
@K This holiday season, many are sad that health concerns forbid family gatherings.
Others are....not.
@K funny to annoy the piss out of them sometimes though.
LOL... poor guy!
"If slaves would make good soldiers our whole theory of slavery would be wrong"
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...
Freed slaves fighting for the Union be like: am I a joke to you.
I know u
The British freed slaves that fought I. Thier army during the American revolution
@@__yt9081 yeah, the British were a bit better at actually freeing at least some of the American slaves who fled the United States, including some efforts at granting them land in the colonies. The British program definitely had a lot of problems, but it was better than the US approach which was to put as many of them back into slavery as possible and, in many states, to completely bar those that were free from public life.
@@kapitankapital6580 the Catholic Church sold thier slaves instead of setting them free
As a European brushing up on his American history you're videos are very entertaining and insightful (:. A friend of mine, from Tennessee is adamant, and unrelenting in his opinion that 100,000 enslaved and free men willingly fought for the Confederacy.. He will not budge in his opinion. I've showed him so many videos bebunking the myth... Like, I'm from Ireland, I'm not even from the U.S - I was never thought U.S history in school, all of it i've researched myself yet even I know the black confederate myth couldn't be a more false piece of historical revisionism. Why would people fight for an institution that keeps them enslaved? I think it sometimes takes an outsiders perspective to see what's real and what's myth. But yeah, when my friend says the confederate cause was about *freedom* I retort with "yeah.. freedom! the freedom to keep human beings in bondage and to pivot an entire society around this enterprise!" .. Also that Irish accent you did for Cleburne was on point 👌
@Wajjjeeaa There be a lot of truth-stretching going on in support of the notion of 'black confederates'. But my favorite part is how to these neo-cons, the handful of documented black men that approached something like military service for the confederacy serves to exonerate Dixie; where the 180,000 documented black men marching for the Union doesn't signal to them that people don't want to be slaves!
The handful of black camp slaves so loyal as to be 'honored' at meetings, etc are the example of people broken to the constant, unrelenting mental abuse of 'you are inferior'. Any black man or woman that succumbed to this brainwashing, literally did become the bosom of south; the epitome of the dream they had. An entire class of voluntarily subservient humans, who can be tasked with every chore too distasteful for someone with money to have to do. Some of these black people can be seen in video interview in the year I was born, 1965. You can see the proud white lady who has special feels for her negroes. smh
Those blacks who didn't cave and accept this existence, while also not escaping to anywhere but the south, were like the defects if you will. It was this group that southern veterans, who supposedly didn't care about slavery, launched a campaign of violent intimidation against. You know them as the kkk, Jim Crow, the Black Codes, segregation, etc; eight decades of voter intimidation, demeaning treatment for generations, the impact of which is fairly plain to see. Atun-Shei succinctly lays this out right here, but you can just 'feel' the neo-cons spacing off and not listening to any of it. Right back to 'it wasn't about slavery!
@@jamie8032 As a black American whose grandparents suffered the end of the Jim Crow era, I didn't think my feedback on a public forum discussing black confederates required any soliciting. I only agreed with you, from a position of directly observing the impact of this lost cause nonsense from your Tennessean friend in my own family as well as in my countrymen.
You don't have to be talking to me for me to respect your position. What you do with that respect is up to you.
Glad to see another Irishman here!
I am from a Texas town named after Cleburne after the war. The more I learn about him, the more I like him. I had to shed the lost cause narrative I learned in Cleburne public schools though.
Wonderfully insightful, even more so considering that many of the regiments in Meade's army at Gettysburg were Irish volunteers. Your people had as much of a stake in keeping the Union together as did the those who were enslaved and oppressed because at the time, both groups were oppressed at one place or another.
Hey Atun-Shei, as an LSU alumni who graduated with honors in History, wanted to say that your content is pretty awesome and your attention to details/primary sources is unparalleled to other 'History skit' channels. You do our state proud, brother. I really liked your analysis on the NOLA statues video too. I went down to the Historic New Orleans Collection archives for a paper on that same issue a few years back and came to similar conclusions.
Subscribed!! Keep the content rolling!
You got a degree in history? I’m hoping to do something similar but if there’s no jobs in that market I will be forced to go into a math/science field (gag). Have any advice?
@@MrCricketbuff I was told some wise advice about Humanities (History, Art, English, etc.) in college: Majoring in STEM or stuff like accounting will start your career off easy after college because you decided to major in a skill. Majoring in Humanities won't have that same easy path to a job, but a smart recruiter will understand that you decided to major in a discipline instead of a skill.
The difference is that studying a discipline sets you on the path to being more worldly individual, increasing your ability for empathy and critical thinking which leads to competent leadership and social ethos. A skill is simply a skill.
If you want a more direct example, imagine you are a HR person looking for a newbie software engineer for your company. Two candidates interview: One majored in History as opposed to CompSci. Both can demonstrate basic programming knowledge, yes, but the History person (through their college experience) is able to express themselves more professionally and is generally more worldly/sociable beyond what's explicitly required of them for the job. Remember, this is a hire you will likely spend more time with than your family at home. Who would you be more interested in being around/representing your company? (No offense to CompSci folks, but the anti-social stigma exists for a reason. '-';;)
So, basically, don't do Humanities and expect it will get you super far by itself-you will end up in minimum wage hell like that. It's great as a stepping stone to future plans like law school or professional development programs that give you the actual skills to progress down a serious career track.
Also, word of advice, being a Humanities grad student is a trap. There are a plethora of career students out there who just want to be a professor but are deadweight PhDs. The European History position at my state flagship college was vacant for less than a year (because the last professor literally died) and he was a Harvard Master's/PhD. Louisiana's flagship is kind of a joke outside of football, so your competition with higher education in humanities is absolutely ridiculous when the reality is that Harvard candidates are competing for a 60k year associate professorship. STEM professors are in way higher demand because they lead research with monetary value instead of just the cultural value humanity efforts propagate.
@@TheStreetMan Thank you for the realistic words, though I gotta ask for the latter bit, does that mean you also have studied something else?
@@MrCricketbuff I majored fully in History, but I currently work in an office setting that utilizes community resource management systems (CRMs) to process applications. It's my first "real" job, but it was still entry level with a minimum of 2 years of work experience. Definitely pick up a part time job during college if you can to skirt by the cursed 2-4 years of work experience barrier to entry. Thankfully, all the skills I needed could be learned on the job relatively easily.
(13:19) "It's right there, in black and white!"
Word choice, my friend.
As Archer would say... "phrasing, PHRASING!"
Very poor choice of words
@@philip8498 how?
George Washington had hundreds of slaves that attended to him both at Mt Vernon and throughout the war. He was definitely overconfident in their loyalty to him, as scores of them escaped to British warships at the first opportunity. He just couldn't quite wrap his mind around slaves valuing their freedom more than being his slaves.
Which given that he was fighting a war for "freedom" seems shocking.
@@ProjectEkerTest33 cognitively dissonant maybe, but not shocking for his time. It took another 150 years for whites to start viewing blacks as equals, even when they believed that slavery was evil.
@@delcapslock100 Fair enough. It seems obvious to us now I guess but at the time it probably didn't even cross their minds.
@@delcapslock100
eh, only if you consider the good ol' US of A to be the only source of whiteness.
... but like in 1793, Upper Canada banned slavery, and those Brits doing so and such would be classified as white... by pretty much everyone now and then.
@@ProjectEkerTest33 he was fighting for the freedom of humans. When you own someone as property, you dont see them as human
25:28 Probably unintentional, but I find it amusing that in his attempt to checkmate Lincolnites, Reb places the chess board sideways.
Your impression of Obi-Wan Kenobi as Jesus is sickeningly good
I wish to like the comment but the senate wont allow me.
Edit: to the people who liked this comment over 66 how dare you! >:(
“And though surviving a New Orleans parade can often make you feel like a combat veteran...” 👏💜
All I want for Christmas is historical accuracy.
Hallelujah
I like that lol
And a bit of wit!
I have to admit at first I didn’t like this guy but he’s growing on me and his videos are really good. Now I don’t agree with everything you say but some of your information has made me stop and ponder the possibility, and for that thank you sir!
@@clintfields5728 good, I’d encourage you to read more into it if you still have doubts. I’ve done most of my own research through books and Articles made by credited historians and 99.9% if not 100% of what he is saying is true. But by all means read about it in your own. It’s a very interesting and important part of American History.
This channel has educated me much more than my school ever did. We were taught the lost cause myth as fact and until finding this channel, which deconstructed and disproved it in a way that I didn’t immediately turn off the videos, i still believed it.
A decent chunk of the "lost cause" myth is accurate. It's primarily the hero worship/chivalry aspect concerning their leaders/generals and the portrayal of slavery as being beneficial to the slaves where things get silly. The states had a right to secede and Lincoln's actions started the actual war, not the Confederacy's. Also, Lincoln's refusal to recognize their right to leave and decision to force them to stay at gunpoint qualifies it as a war over states rights as it violated the rights granted the states by the 10th amendment. It was pretty much legislation by gun rather than pen. Not exactly a precedent most would want to set.
I don't remember much about the Civil War from school, but I vividly remember my US History teacher in 7th grade going out of his way to say that the Civil War wasn't about slavery, but states' rights. I kinda just took the guy's word for it (obviously, that's BS). The subject never really interested me until much later in life.
@@hannaford111 But it was provincial(provinces is technically more accurate) rights! The right to use slave labor for profit!
@@possumverdeplease read the tenth amendment
Is Ewan McGregor the Confederate Jesus?
He's jesus period
Ironic considering Obi Wan Kenobi help destroy a Confederacy
He’s just two brothers from Minnesota fighting over a postage stamp.
Oh no 😂
"THE CONFEDERACY OF INDEPENDENT SYSTEMS ARE VILE PAPISTS, NOT WORTHY OF THE FORCES LOVE!!!"
I recently found out that someone I know with, er, less than accurate views of historical people of color watches this channel. Watching this video, and knowing that they'll see it too, is the best possible Christmas present.
Even if this claim was true, I don't think it would be particularly meaningful, or say anything good about the Confederacy.
European colonial empires made extensive use of native soldiers, but they were still racist and exploitative. But they realised that the most effective way to utilize racism was to treat certain people (e.g local elites, or tribes or ethnic groups with a strong martial culture) as superior to the other locals, and grant them some privileges accordingly. That way they will support the system because they benefit from it (or at least think they do).
From the video, it sounds that something similar was happening in New Orleans, but the Confederates were to stuck in their ways to take advantage of it.
So in short, the Confederates were too racist to even do racism effectively.
And what makes you think that the northerners staged a war to free the slaves?
Well, it's just expensive, and the capitalists in the north themselves are still racists
For example Lincoln said that slaves would be freed only to capture the south
I think the war was about taxes
For the North to take over the south and the Elites of the north to control the South
No one cared about the slaves
In the north, blacks were used as cheap labor and a means to lower the price of labor
А с чего ты взял, что в северяне устроили войну чтобы освободить рабов?
Ну вот просто это дорого стоит, а капиталисты на севере сами расисты ещё те
Например Линкольн говорил что рабов освобождать будет только для захвата юга
Я думаю, что война была из-за налогов
Чтобы Север захватил юг и Элиты севера контролировали Юг
На рабов всем плевать было
На севере чернокожие использовались как дешёвая рабочая сила и средство для снижения цены на труд
@@svyatosloveharkonnen9434 that has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying.
As he pointed out in the video re: New Orleans, the black Confederate regiment in Louisiana were free blacks in basically the only area of the South where there were any significant number of free blacks, and had very different interests than the enslaved population.
the union also was too racist to do it right after a time, itself. the "five civilized tribes" took to taking on the european way of life as the best means of survival, and were used in this role against the more hostile tribes. but as time went on, the US honored less and less of the treaties, resulting in such atrocities as the trail of tears, and also the "indian wars."
even now, the US will shit all over its treaties with the tribes if it can extract some value from the transaction.
Sounds abt right…here in America we have a special kind of racism and stupidity
Having written a book about the Civil War, I can safely say that the very idea of Black Confederates is nothing short of utterly absurd.
@@noskpain2792 Noted that you said the word "Creole" which is a person of mixed white and black heritage. So no he isn't like the "Black Confederates" that post Confederates like to hail up. And also, a handful of "black" confederates fail to counter the fact that there was 100k black soldiers in active combat service with the Union by the time of the end of the war.
You need at least a few thousand people to make a convincing argument as this individual cases are more of "the execption to the rule" rather than the norm.
Heck there was more women pretending to be men to serve in the civil war then there was black confederates. But no sane person will make the claim that women were allowed to serve during the civil war.
BRO THERE WERE BLACK CONFEDERATES!!! KNOW YOUR HISTORY
@@jaman6622history says no
@@noskpain2792 Alexander Dimitry defected from the Confederate cause before the 1st Battle of Bull Run and fled to New York where he remained for the rest of the war, you can look it up. PGT Beauregard was apparently so incensed that he called Dimitry "a traitor to the land of his birth."
You should have researched more and discovered Gregory Newsom. Too bad your book is full of crap.
You've taken on "Gods and Generals," when are you gonna take on, "GONE WITH THE WIND?" Time to go against Scarlett O'Hara!
That Karen debunks herself. What a bitch.
Even putting aside the confederate sympathies it's just incredible how unlikable Scarlett is as a protagonist. If only we had been treated to Rhett's life story.
@@georgeselly3426 He wasn’t that likable either. In the novel, he kills a black man and thinks nothing of it.
I'd say there's a difference between being a captivating, complex character and being morally upstanding. Rhett never claimed to be the latter, even through the author's warped worldview.
My mom made me watch it when I turned 13, claiming it was a rite of passage. I found it dreadfully boring, and I hated Scarlett.
My parents are pro-confederate, I found out later. [Curb your enthusiasm plays distantly]
I'd like to imagine Johnny Reb has actually been convinced that the south was bad and the checkmate lincolnites series is just him and Billy Yank re-enacting their old debates and outside of the series the 2 are actually just good friends and drinking buddies
Even if he hasn't changed his name, they're probably still friends and good drinking buddies. Being a Southerner who has actually studied history, my lost causer friends and family annoy the shit out of me, but they're good company most of the time!
@@thewest8630 Mr. The West, you could try and show your lost causer family and friends this Checkmate Lincolnites Show, it's hilarious and pretty convincing so it might do the work on those hard core dixie boys
_"Yes, it's me [Jesus Christ]. But I wasn't really born on Christmas. It's a vile pagan carnival, and everyone who celebrates it is going to hell."_
_- Obi-Wan Kenobi_
And a "fake" Jesus at that. Too funny.
To think that Saturnalia can be considered "vile" by the barbarians in the east is most despicable.
Amen
@@november2435 Saturnalia is not the only vile pagan celebration of midwinter, wasn't even the first. :D
So Jesus Christ, Obi-Wan Kenobi and the Witchfinder General are one and the same? I think I finally understand the (un)Holy Trinity. Christmas, or rather the pagan festivals it replaced, is all about joy, love for your fellow man (and woman) and a promise about lighter, warmer times. Anyone who opposes that, is vile.
Your “ Johnny Reb “ Character is the best.
He is so funny/informative in his own way.. he’s a brilliant idea to get the real message out. That slavery is/was the sole base root of succession
Kudos for your videos. Well done sir. Very well done.
I have imagined meeting Obi Wan Kenobi before. Being run through with a light saber for being a Quaker isn't how I imagined the meeting would end. :(
Yeah after the war when they had those Union and Confederate reunions they often times treated the Blacks that served as laborers in the Confederate armies like mascots. Of course the close to over 200,000 Blacks that served in the Union Army and Union Navy were not invited to these reunions because their very presence would have let everybody know exactly why the war was fought.
for the north subjugating the southern states back into the union and property disputes which comes down to money. for the south, secession, and State sovereignty, and property disputes.
Yeah, while many in the Union thought slavery was a barbaric and cruel practice, not too many really cared about black people in other ways.
Keep in mind that saying slavery is bad is like saying that a law that makes it legal to rape non-citizens is bad, yeah, just because you don’t agree with that law doesn’t meant you disagree with deportation.
As someone who was born and raised in the first secession state South Carolina, your videos have changed my mind about the lost cause. I feel really stupid that I actually believed it, but this southerner thanks you. Keep it up!!!!!!
Out of curiosity, what made you believe the lost cause myth?
Who taught it to you?
@@obi-wankenobi1233 I appreciate the curiosity because I like to self-reflect every once in a while. To be honest I never really had any love for the Confederacy and was never really big on Southern pride. I've always felt that slavery was an evil institution that needed to be destroyed, and I never at all doubted for a second that the main cause of the Civil War was slavery. Neither my family nor my schools ever taught me to sympathize with the Confederacy or downplay the monstrosity of slavery, quite the opposite in fact.
Where I dwelled into Lost Cause territory has to do with my belief that if a state or a region wants to be it's own sovereign nation then it has the right to do so. I didn't understand the need to send hundreds of thousands of men to their deaths simply to force the South back into the Union, even if they were trying to keep slavery in tact. I felt the South would've eventually been pressured by the West to outlaw slavery, and also eventually would have returned to the Union.
I also thought that most Confederate soldiers were like Robert E. Lee, who simply fought out of loyalty and willingness to protect their land and families. When instead the vast majority were not only willing, but happy to fight for slavery.
These videos(and the podcast History That Doesn't Suck) changed my mind on these things and made me realize I was asking the wrong question. That I should have been asking "Why cause so much human suffering to protect and spread an evil institution that was steadily being phased out of the civilized world?" I still believe in the right to independence and secession, but I now believe the South's secession was illegitimate due to its main reason for doing so was to continue the spread of slavery throughout North America.
@@Zombie-rj6nd Ever heard of the Abbeville Institute? I suggest looking into their stuff. I also suggest DiLorenzo's "The Real Lincoln" if you want a interesting view.
th-cam.com/video/8S96iQYL0bw/w-d-xo.html
@@justfiddlinaround1128 LOL, The Abbeville Institute is nothing but Lost Cause dipshittery.
@@justfiddlinaround1128 No doubt that it would be interesting, but from a cursory review, that's about it.
I think I just realized how the first drunk comment was written, I think the person was speech to text and didn't bother to double check when they were finished. That explains the words in there with no context and there being only an opening quotation mark, I think they said quote and it put the symbol. Still funny as hell though.
That sounds right. I worked with a TV reporter that used speech to text to fill in his scripts. 80% of them would be fine and the other 20% would be complete nonsense, especially when the speech to text ran into proper names. Anderson would become and her son, that sort of thing. I'm pretty sure Arkansas got turned into I can saw in the drunk comment.
The best phrase that the reporter's speech to text spat out was "power steering tire in the chest". I don't even remember what it was supposed to say, but I do remember that every single one of those words was wrong. 🤣
What are you doing here Sherman? Georgia is still in open rebellion, get on it man.
@@nukclear2741
Hey, he can't spend all his time marching and burning. The man still had to eat, take shits, and write reports.
Probably had a few minutes on the latrine.
one of the many great features of Atun-Shei is that HE CITES HIS SOURCES! Time and again, the best historical channels cite sources for further reading.
The gift giving scene really warmed my heart. It was just so nice to see
We really could have a literal Checkmate, Lincolnites scene with this chess set.
Well...the next episode...
“Instead he used a piece of gold to buy whiskey, which he used to buy a bottle of whiskey”
makes sense to me
*stonks*
If you pay attention, the Union side is more and more dressed each episode.
I enjoy this character development
I do kinda wish the Yankee had a New England accent. Keep him the one who will be humble and criticize the North, just with the accent.
"He's gonna say it. He's gonna say the S-word.....slavery"
When the Irish born Confederate Gen Patrick Cleburne suggested arming and enlisting black troops in late 1863, he was roundly condemned by fellow generals-WHT Walker, Bragg. He was likewise silenced by Jefferson Davis. Cleburne’s memo was tabled and nearly forgotten.
I've literally watched this series over 6 times and it never gets less funny. A. Please bring it back and B. Atun-Shei is a genius.
This is a very enjoyable and informative series of videos. One thing that perhaps is not obvious is that these two characters apparently enjoy each other's company and can hold a (semi)civilised discussion despite their opposing and mutually exclusive opinions. That is perhaps one more lesson for many to learn.
I want to hear some nonsense something like 50,000 blacks served in the Confederate Army. And I was like BS. From what I gather most of the ones that served were laborers,cooks or the tended to the needs of wealthy Confederate officers and soldiers.
Who knew that the Army fought to preserve slavery used slavery in their army? Lol.
Later on there would be black soldiers, but just because the CSA was getting desperate. Many deserted or caused racist white soldiers to desert.
@@FlyingAlfredoSaucer Imagine being so racist that it's having black people near you that makes you desert, rather than the possibility of getting shot or blown up.
@@cass7448 Having armed blacks near you did increase the chance of getting shot though.
@@MrRemicas well then, shouldnt have kept them as slaves then
Lincolnite from Texas, here. I love these videos, not just from a nerdy standpoint, but they make it easier to talk about this with my grey wearing, stars n'bars waving relatives and acquaintances. Every time one of these comes out, I post it on facebook and start spoiling for a fi- I mean, every time one of these videos comes out I get really excited to educate people.
Not trying to be a bit pedantic, but I'm pretty sure no neo-confederate waves the Stars and Bars, they wave the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia
@@MrHat. Eh. True, but a racist traitor is a racist traitor.
"If slaves will make good soldiers our whole theory of slavery is wrong"
The irony is so juicy.
I was watching this in bed on my phone. my wife was sleeping. I laughed so hard when he got drunk and read that message. that I woke her up and you got me in trouble!! I laughed so hard. Thanks
Pros: You laughed
Cons: Your wife is about to bash the hell of you!
@@mikaelleonbriones6356 yes she did!!
A house divided against itself cannot stand
‘...cavally...’
So unrelated to your video, but your videos made me look up my family history to see who fought where. Since I’m from Texas I figured oh yeah they were just confederates. But most of them left for the union. So now I bought a uniform and trying to find a reenactment group to join in the future. I feel someone should represent the few Texans that stayed loyal.
They certainly existed! Not that lost causers will admit...what a cool idea, by the way! 😄😄👍🏻
Texas always felt on the fringe at the time to me, being a recent western state. It was where Longstreet governed after the war.
When the states seceded, there were large areas of Union sympathizers. West Texas, northern Arkansas, the Appalachia. In fact, West Virginia is the 32 non-slave Appalachian counties that seceded from Virginia. Two of my ancestors, like 20% of the white men from North Carolina who fought in the Civil War, went over the mountains and served from 1863 to 1865 in the 13th Tennessee Volunteer Cavalry, US Army.
"...and though surviving a New Orleans parade can often make you feel like a combat veteran..."
Truer words were never spoken.
I think the real reason Cleburne could even think of arming the slaves is because he wasn't really a Southerner. He was an Anglo-Irishman who had immigrated to the South, he didn't grow there. He didn't cite slavery as a reason for joining the South, but because the Southerners had accepted him as one of their own. He didn't own slaves nor did he care for its trade. He was pretty much what actual Southerners want to imagine what all of the Confederacy was.
The man was fighting for the wrong side, what a shame
@@dr.aisaitl7439I doubt it
The whiskey purifies the excrement from the coffee....Holy cannoli
I hope this and other Atun-Shei's Civil War films are shown in high school history lessons. They are that good.
Despite the alcoholism, I found that opening kinda heartwarming. Merry Christmas man!
"...and though surviving a New Orleans parade can often make you FEEL like a combat veteran..." how did I miss this chuckleworthy line the first time around. He says it so factually you don't realize he's making a joke at first.