Thank’s for a great episode, nice to hear that physical sales are on the rise. Very intresting to hear how the music industry has changed over the years.
Great video Phil - you raise a lot of great points. Lets face it, in the early days even the bands managers ripped the musicians off. The poor old musician at the end of the line just gets screwed. It happened to the Beatles, so it can happen to anyone. A bit off topic here Phil, but am reading about Taylor Swifts era's tour being an almost totally pre-recorded event !! Fans are paying out a fortune for tickets to her shows to get a pre-recorded mimed show and auto tuned vocal, which they are totally unaware of. So she is not treating her fans well at all - that could never happen in my day - sorry for drifting off topic. Cya Doug
Like you have always said, physical media never really went away! Even in the world of videos, the DVD is doing fine. Even VHS is making a comeback, according to some sources.
An interesting video Phil with lots to think about. It is great news for those of us who buy physical media, but it really shows how the industry has changed and not for the better. Anyone hoping to break through as a band or as a solo artist really has got their work cut out. Another nail in the coffin a few years back was the beast that was X-Factor that was only geared to get Simon Cowell's record label a Xmas no 1. after that most of these acts were dropped, again very cold and uncaring and it led the way to how this business is now run. Also what I'd like to point out is the number of live venues that has reduced drastically in the last few years, some in part to the pandemic, some in my area never recovered and never reopened. It really is becoming a cut throat business, and I will do all I can to support the bands and artists who I like whether it be at gigs or on their websites, buying the merch and most importantly the music. Which is after all what this is about for both artist/band and fans....
I do have an occasional look in charity shops to see if I can find an occasional "bargain CD" but I always find it amusing that you can "predict" whose albums will occupy most of the space they have for CDs - and a lot of it is that X-Factor rubbish that gets churned out at Christmas but is the charity shops by Easter. Streaming is "legalised theft" and the people that engage with it have just helped to turn the majority of popular music into a "disposable commodity" that is cheap to churn out - and the record companies then don't have to deal with artists getting too popular and demanding huge royalties. Just get rid of them when they become unfashionable and get Simon Cowell and his chums to select a new bunch of patsies to leech off of each year.
Very thorough and informative review of where the music business and physical media sales are today. Enjoyed the update Phil. Thanks for the video! - Dylan
@6.42, I download more these days, generally from bandcamp, because postage & import taxes of any physical media from outside the UK is stupidly expensive. For example, a $25 LP from Sharon is Karen (a US bandcamp artist) became a $78 LP when shipping & taxes were included, so a $7 (+ vat) hi res flac download is what I bought. I don't do streaming, I like to own the music I listen to. Downloads allow me to hear new music relatively inexpensively & support the artist where the physical media is too costly.
I too only buy cd’s and happy to do so. What I have done many times in the past is catch up, that is to say I’ll start delving into a band or artist I only know a little bit about perhaps just their singles and as my interest grows I’ll buy their back catalogue (adding to higher cd sales figures!) My latest “discovery” is The Cranberries… I’ve gradually bought just about all their studio albums and boy am I pleased!…in other words I’m cock a hoop that cd’s are selling in respectable numbers be it new or old releases…love it!
Hi there Phil, I’m a fairly new subscriber to your channel and I really like what you’re doing. I’ve always preferred physical music over streaming or download anyway. Having said that, you had mentioned here that “Physical music is alive and well.” - With it making up only around 17% of the entire music industry, I will agree with you that it’s alive. However, I would not say that it is doing “well” at all. The numbers tell the story. I’ll always support it no matter what and I know you said that to remain positive as it’s fitting for someone with your channel’s content to say. I wouldn’t expect you to say “physical media is in the toilet compared to streaming” on your own channel anyway lol. Regardless I will continue to follow you and your updates and hope you have a good one! 😊
I can see where you are coming from. When I started this there was a feeling that CDs were dead and we were going to get to a point where no one would be making any. Also vinyl was an incredibly small part of the story. In fact I was convinced I was the only guy I knew who still bought physical media at all. So going from almost zero to 17% and still growing makes me feel that this 'niche' is here to stay. Plus it's worth a fair bit of money so there is more investment in it now. It will never be what it was but with younger fans buying CDs and vinyl I feel confident about the future - Phil
Despite the increases of sales/percentages of physical formats and my own large consumption of music I can increasingly relate to it being a niche or odd thing to do. Just by the attitudes of people who don't pay for these things. This despite the increases although significant in their own way they feel arbitrary as a consumer..
Great video, Phil. It’s great that you’re pointing out all the positives and how it is still possible to make a go of being a musician, and spelling out how fans can best support their favourite artists. I don’t think this is always obvious or considered by a lot of people. So good to put it all into context, in our ever changing world. It would be, perhaps, useful to engage with, say, When Rivers Meet and Cats In Space, to get their take on what they’ve done well and what went wrong; collect tips for other upcoming artists, and also how best fans can help. I’m sure they’d be willing to give you some insights and input. Maybe that could be the beginnings of an ‘Artist’s Forum’, on Now Spinning Magazine? Who knows where that could lead?! Thanks 🙏.
I think it's unlikely you'll get criticism from artists of their record labels in the same way that if I criticised my company in a public place, they would come down hard on me also - and I do believe in ethical behaviour towards your "employer". I don't see many musicians queuing up in like to support me when I go in to see my boss to ask for a pay rise, and yet as physical music lovers, it's almost like we're supposed to take pity on musicians specifically when they "plead poverty" and just put up with the ever increasing prices of physical media. To be fair, I don't the musicians have control over that, there's just too many fat and rich "middle-men" between us and them that take their cut. Plus, as I've said in my main comment here, when we buy CDs or vinyl, we're paying excessive prices to subsidise the "legalised theft" of music streaming.
Hi Terry, None of the musicians I know have a steady salary, most are not even making the minimum wage. The price of CD and vinyl production has increased but they also have seen an increase in food, energy, bills etc. However, it is hard for many people to see the value in something if they can also get it for free. I use streaming for discovery and Apple music so I can take my music collection with me in the car. For musicians streaming is a form of theft, for the big labels it is a revenue stream based on contracts drawn up before a single computer appeared on a desk. I agree that the big labels are seeing a certain demographic as a cash cow and have no interest in keeping many of these box set releases on catalog beyond the initial flurry of sales. For musicians now they need to look at subscription models and doing fan only releases and content. Thank you for your comments of this subject. I will continue to do these videos as it is something that really interests me. The other thing the big labels are doing now is not supplying Amazon with new releases. For example the Phil Manzanera box set is only available from Universal. They are even setting up Bandcamp pages! Phil
@@NowSpinningMagazine Whenever I mention that big online retailer, YT censors or deletes my comments - but one of the best things I did was cancel my subscription membership with them, mainly because most CDs are sold by marketplace sellers anyway and don't qualify for the free or expedited delivery. Plus the wife watches the video stuff and wasn't happy that they started sticking ads into it, even though we were paying for it. Since I didn't renew it in June, I've seen how expensive they are (when you factor in their delivery charges) and now I am buying most of my music from that online auction site or directly from the record labels. Ultimately, the tiny downside is having to wait a couple more days for delivery, but at our age we've learned patience! Don't get me wrong, there's a "convenience" to iTunes for music portability, I just rip my CDs myself to achieve the same thing as you.
What I would like to know, Phil, is who's buying physical formats, which age groups? I suspect the numbers drop dramatically when it comes to the under 20s. Another thing, and you've said this yourself, is that in the 70s, with only pocket money, maybe a Saturday job, we couldn't afford to buy everything. You might hear a single on the radio, or on TOTPS, that you like, but not actually buy it. You might borrow an album from a friend, or the local library, and not buy it. You had to be selective. So, there's a parallel there with these times when it comes to streaming vs purchasing physical media.
What worries me is the future. The legacy bands/artists who came up in the past still have the fanbase and the power behind them. It's great to see these artists like David Gilmour and the Cure do well, have new albums out and sell out stadiums, etc, but who will be the legacy artists of the next 20 years? There's lot's of great new music and artists around, but I feel you have to hunt for it, which music geeks like us do anyway. But most people don't, they want it served on a platter and in the past they did get it served on a platter. Artists used to be signed on contracts for numerous albums and given time to evolve, but record companies don't seem to want to do that know. I know next to nothing about Taylor Swift, but good for her, she seems to be doing alright, but feel this is an exception to the rule.
It's a very curious exception to the rule. Certain artists do seem to have colossal amounts of backing and promotion from the record industry and the media. Often these individuals to me seem very mediocre in terms of their talent and creativity, I know that's perhaps a subjective opinion but that's just my perception, I don't regard retro-80s synth pop and resurrecting Madonna's shtick as ground-breaking, maybe others do, as I said that's subjective. Meanwhile, I see very talented people struggle to be noticed and have little to no attention. I am not even sure how it works now and how someone can 'crack' it.
Excellent point on who will be the legacy artists of the future. It certainly wont be a Simon Cowell artist but that was never on his agender i suppose.
@@theshayhouseofficial As someone who does the occasional hunt through CD racks in charity shops, it amuses me to always see the "same old, same old" albums in their racks - X-Factor winner at Christmas but in the charity shops by Easter! They've made popular music into a disposable commodity - "don't let the artist get too big for their boots, get rid of them within a year or two and just get a new lot in".
My musical tastes are stuck in the late 1960's and the entirety of the 1970's, mainly because I grew up in those years anyway and those were my first musical experiences. I've tried getting into modern bands but there was a phase during the 1990's and early 2000's where a lot of seemingly-interesting bands released one or two really good tracks, I went and bought the album on the strength of those, and those were the only two good tracks on the album anyway. I've since gone back to the 1960's and 1970's and just expanded what I listen to from those eras. Even a lot of the albums I own from the 1980's I just can't stand now - case in point being "David Coverdale's Heavy Metal Whitesnake" albums like 1987 and beyond which I really don't need to hear again - yet I absolutely adore the first 6 "Moody/Marsden" Whitesnake albums. Ultimately there's more than enough good music for me to explore and enjoy from the 1960's and 1970's, so what legacy is left by more modern artists is of no real concern anyway. There are good artists and bands out there, but they always end up sounding like someone else from the 1960's or 1970's and they just remind me to go dig those albums out, rather than buy their new albums (because of when I got "stung" a lot by new artists as I said above). Don't get me wrong, I hope these artists succeed at what they do and create their own younger audiences but there's not a lot that I hear now that makes me want to buy it - "Cats In Space" are clearly influenced by the 1970's and I do genuinely hope they do well but when I listen to their music, there's always "something missing" to my old ears, and it doesn't gel with me.
One of the largest markets for physical media now is second hand stuff on ebay and discogs. It is for me anyhow. The only new stuff I buy is box sets for legacy acts, and new releases for smaller bands that are never going to trouble the charts. Arena gigs are not attractive, and the only gigs I go to are smaller venues, again for smaller acts, and festivals - and even those are becoming too much of a bother, camping wise.
Here's where I disagree with some of what you say, Phil. And, just for the record, neither the wife or I, or any close family members, have jobs connected with the music industry, so I can speak as an outsider who just loves a lot of the music produced within that industry. As far as I am concerned, music streaming is "legalised theft" where the "middle-men" (mostly Apple and Netflix) take their cut as the hosting platforms, the record labels take most of the rest of it and the artists end up getting very little. At the same time, with the popularity of streaming, the musicians cannot afford to ignore it because exposure means popularity, and popularity leads to concert tours and merchandise sales where the artists do end up making a bit more money (and rightfully so) - albeit after another "middle-man" (the ticket seller, and we know which company I am talking about here) takes their huge cut. Secondly, you keep us informed on physical music sales and for the past couple of years, sales of music on CD and vinyl have increased. In a capitalist market, what that means is more CDs and LPs are manufactured and sold, therefore the price of them should be at least remaining constant, or even decreasing. But they don't, they keep increasing - that's a "warning sign" to me. I love my box sets and my CDs, music is my number one hobby and in practice it has meant that over the past decades I may have purchased some albums three or four times, due to remasters and adding additional tracks. A box set usually means I can get multiple albums cheaper than buying each one separately but most of them are still overpriced. That music has already been made and recorded, I'm not paying for musican studio time to create the music or heavy marketing of a new album made as a result. I am simply paying for an engineer to remaster the music and someone else to compile it and package it. Big box sets like the recent Rory Gallagher one (which I missed out due to HMV's incompetence) and the Billy Bragg one show that they can do a really nice package and still average out at far less than £5 per CD in the box set. That should be achievable on all box sets. I am extremely happy with what record companies like Cherry Red, Repertoire and Grapefruit have been releasing for me to buy, but I think those of us who buy physical media are often being taken as "suckers" by them - and I almost feel like we're expected to subsidise the money musicians don't get because of streaming by us paying even more inflated prices for our physical media. One final point - I know of at least one Internet site that I could go to now and download just about any album that I want to in FLAC format, stick it on my home server and have that album to play whenever I like and completely free of charge. I don't use that site because I don't want to "de-value" my music - you appreciate something more if you put in effort to making it yourself or you pay some money for it. And that's why music streaming is "legal theft" because, in the same way, as soon as someone has free access to just about any album they want, its value lessens in their eyes because they just pay a small monthly subscription for it - unlike me and the great people here, who value the music more (we're "proper fans" of the music) and are expected to subsidise that "legal theft".
Love the show thanks for covering this subject. I never thought I would see the day that the music land scape would change . Even tho people like too stream I find streaming . I am finding that streaming has become a threat for the record company. But on the up side all for mates are good .
The biggest difference between the record industry of today vs yesterday IMO (20+ years ago) is scale. Artists have literally gone bankrupt even after selling 500,000 or even a million units of an album(s). The record labels have ALWAYS been in the business to recoup their costs and to grow their existing business(s). This is simply Business 101. There have been story after story about artists and bands that literally owe their futures/lives to record companies because of "bad" record contracts that were signed by under/misrepresented individuals and bands. The biggest difference that I can see is that there is far less physical product(s) to sell the consumer in today's market (money/revenue streams) as compared to previous generations. The main revenue streams that are available to artists in the 21st century are touring and merchandising. These were always, historically speaking, supplemental to physical album sales. The margins (profit wise) have always been slim for the artist and individuals selling said product, but enormous for the entities that control publishing rights, etc. especially when you are talking numbers in the "millions".
A really interesting video Phil, the sort that makes this channel pretty much unique. Have you ever spoken to Steven Wilson about this sort of thing? I’m reading his book at the moment and he has interesting views on the subject of making a living out of music.
Phil, I "own" thousands of downloads, (including lots of bootlegs, taken off TH-cam) which I can play anytime in car, or in usb port of my integrated amp or Cd player, where as with streaming, you do not "own". I refuse to give in to the streaming companies. I buy both vinyl and CD but downloads are a nice option. IMO
Interesting Phil, thank you. Wondering if you always make historical comparison by units sold rather than dollars / pounds sold as the cost of Vinyl has shot upwards pretty dramatically lately, yes?
One of Englands best kept secrets a country singer from Liverpool called Nathan Carter has great attitude to the new way of doing things I have met him a few times at his met and greats. Irish Country artists also do holiday trips to Spain and Portugal and some country music presenters organise holidays to Nashville and Graceland. Plus they always still able to sell their albums and dvds This model might and could be adopted by other artists of different artists.
Interesting video Phil. The high percentage of `Catalogue` sales is not a new phenomenon. Can`t remember the exact figures but I remember way back in the 1990`s even then the catalogue album sales were helping to keep the music business afloat. This was a time when Dance music was dominating the singles chart but most of those `Dance` artists were not making albums that were selling in great numbers hence the Catalogue sales were beginning to dominate. Allow me to give you two specific examples from the 90`s that emphasised how bad things had become - Example 1 is that in the same calendar week 9 of the top 10 singles were dance orientated yet in the top 10 albums it was the exact reverse with only 1 of the top 10 dance orientated. That says a lot. Example 2 was a week when 5 (50%!)of the top 10 singles were cover versions or re-issues of old singles. I`ll try to look this up later as I can`t remember all the titles but one of those 5 songs I remember specifically was Nick Berry`s remake of `Heartbeat`. On a radio show around the same time some music journalists and musicians were talking about how a new Tin Pan Alley needed to be created (David Coverdale might have been one of the panel on that show?). As much as I love Abba (seen them live twice) and Fleetwood Mac (seen them and Stevie Nicks solo live) I despair a little when I see each week that their compilations are still so high in the charts week after week after week after week.....New music MUST be given a platform and a chance to shine.
All things in life how are made in small numbers, so its secord hand, new and back catterlog. But if you can do new it helps the artist more, but you most keep buying and spinging, in the end ownship is all as it's your to sping any time and it can not and that's the joy , you can sping your collection for life and on your journey help your bands and artist.
They don't rely on record sales, or they can't financially survive (it has actually always been that way, as the record is made for the hardware it is played on). Your channel can't survive on content alone, they've got to add merch like you have here and ramp it up over and above music it takes time to find and listen to. It's just how it is, like Ramones or the Raiders, people will wear the shirt and not even listen to the band or follow the team. And so many in the music business not even knowing what they're doing and never find out. Quite the abundance of it. 150k releases a day. Well, in 1993 we had 17k releases a month. Think about it, there's no place to go but into the abyss. Marketing does the business or good luck. It's not realistic as an artist to think along the overall industry numbers, but to rather concentrate on what it is they can do, or it can backfire because it will never be measured up to. The independent artist needs to exist within their own means. As for record labels, they're all still bound to distributors and their first cuts. That's where the actual power is, because it's NEVER getting out commercially without them. Just remember, artists don't have to do this business, so it all starts with them and there's nothing to be had without the material they produce and then bring to distributors and labels. There is no such thing as be talented and you're in, it's about seeing what you can do and who you can get it in front of. Major labels have nothing to do with any of it, they own the rights, so such artists get less than people think. Recouping with interest and they don't even own it. Face it, that's over. Deep Purple owns their music, because as I am saying they make a record and present it to the label, and then the label is either on board or not. What do they do? They distribute and promote it, with a design department, some videos, etc. They don't have anything to do with it until it is presented to them. Zilch
Sorry but I don’t agree that albums aren’t now released for the Xmas market . For example the newly remastered , remixed and relabelled debut Queen album now called Queen 1 is a prime example of this , plus the release of the new albums by David Gilmour , The Cure and by Tears for Fears are also targeted at the Xmas market . Another old record marketing ploy to sell extra copies of a previously released album is to re release it as a deluxe version like the new Duran Duran album Danse Macabre which personally I think is disrespectful to the loyal fans who bought the album on original release This is just one example of this practice of later releasing another version of an already released album
The fact we can literally name them all suggests the numbers are smaller. I was getting my stats from Music Week which is the trade magazine for the music business and The Cure is seen as the last big release before Christmas.
@@NowSpinningMagazine I see the point that you are making but then again the Rolling Stones marketing ploy is to release their new live album at Shepherds Bush next month a couple of weeks before Xmas which is another good example of a Xmas release and if memory serves me well didn’t they release their last studio album before Xmas as another cash grab ! At least this year neither Take That or Robbie Bleeding Williams are dominating the end of year album charts ! lol
@@NowSpinningMagazine Aren’t you forgetting the new Rolling Stones live at Shepherds Bush album is coming out in 2 weeks before Xmas and that the Stones last album was sold at the same time of year
I don't at all think it is "disrespectful" to re-release an old album with remastering and employing the latest engineering techniques - ultimately it's the fans in their reviews who will decide how good or "sympathetic" to the original release the new "mix" is. I do think that the prices of some re-releases are a rip-off. Sure, a box set should give "better value for money" than buying each album separately, but I think in a box set of 5 CDs or more, it should ALWAYS be possible to bring that in at no more than £5 per CD (which many box sets have done, to be fair). We are being ripped off by too many "middle-men" between us and the artists, even as CD buyer - I bet the vinyl enthusiasts feel even more ripped off.
@@terrydaktyllus1320 Sorry but I think that you have misunderstood what o meant which is releasing a new album and then a few months later usually in the same year releasing a deluxe version with extra tracks when as a loyal fan you have already bought the album
I disagree, the USA, the Five Eyes countries and Europe tend to "follow suit" on this type of stuff. Pete Pardo's "Sea of Tranquility" channel in the USA has just crossed 100K subscribers (and well done to him) and all he ever talks about are CDs.
So pleased for Pete at SOT, it shows what can be done whilst still not going down the 'clickbait' route which many other channels seems to do. I can see why are negativity wins everytime of social media but I just can't do it. You would believe the titles YT's AI suggests I should use! Phil
@@NowSpinningMagazine I think there's a big difference to treating YT as a more of a hobby rather than making it a large proportion of your livelihood, or even all of it. I believe Pete's in a full time job anyway and I understand a lot of what you do is via the magazine and web site, so neither of you "depend" on YT's income or hits. Pete's channel has grown organically without any clickbait nonsense and I sure yours will do the same. I keep thinking about doing a channel myself (probably a bit of music and computing stuff) but I work full time and am heavily involved in a social club locally, and I just prefer to do things in face-to-face environments there as opposed to online. Any income I was to get from YT (and I am not a Google fan by any stretch of the imagination because of privacy concerns) would just be "pocket money" anyway.
I'm so glad to hear CDs are doing well.. I only buy Compact Discs.. ❤
Nice update. Hail the CD!
Thank’s for a great episode, nice to hear that physical sales are on the rise. Very intresting to hear how the music industry has changed over the years.
Great video Phil - you raise a lot of great points. Lets face it, in the early days even the bands managers ripped the musicians off. The poor old musician at the end of the line just gets screwed. It happened to the Beatles, so it can happen to anyone. A bit off topic here Phil, but am reading about Taylor Swifts era's tour being an almost totally pre-recorded event !! Fans are paying out a fortune for tickets to her shows to get a pre-recorded mimed show and auto tuned vocal, which they are totally unaware of. So she is not treating her fans well at all - that could never happen in my day - sorry for drifting off topic. Cya Doug
Thank God physical media is alive & well, vinyl & CD are co-existing. Great video Phil. Long live physical media.
Great video Phil, thanks for highlighting the fact that the artists in this day and age are not looked after.
You're absolutely right about every aspect of how making music is now, Phil. It is nice to see physical media bouncing back a bit though.
Like you have always said, physical media never really went away! Even in the world of videos, the DVD is doing fine. Even VHS is making a comeback, according to some sources.
An interesting video Phil with lots to think about. It is great news for those of us who buy physical media, but it really shows how the industry has changed and not for the better. Anyone hoping to break through as a band or as a solo artist really has got their work cut out. Another nail in the coffin a few years back was the beast that was X-Factor that was only geared to get Simon Cowell's record label a Xmas no 1. after that most of these acts were dropped, again very cold and uncaring and it led the way to how this business is now run. Also what I'd like to point out is the number of live venues that has reduced drastically in the last few years, some in part to the pandemic, some in my area never recovered and never reopened. It really is becoming a cut throat business, and I will do all I can to support the bands and artists who I like whether it be at gigs or on their websites, buying the merch and most importantly the music. Which is after all what this is about for both artist/band and fans....
I do have an occasional look in charity shops to see if I can find an occasional "bargain CD" but I always find it amusing that you can "predict" whose albums will occupy most of the space they have for CDs - and a lot of it is that X-Factor rubbish that gets churned out at Christmas but is the charity shops by Easter.
Streaming is "legalised theft" and the people that engage with it have just helped to turn the majority of popular music into a "disposable commodity" that is cheap to churn out - and the record companies then don't have to deal with artists getting too popular and demanding huge royalties. Just get rid of them when they become unfashionable and get Simon Cowell and his chums to select a new bunch of patsies to leech off of each year.
Very thorough and informative review of where the music business and physical media sales are today. Enjoyed the update Phil. Thanks for the video!
- Dylan
@6.42, I download more these days, generally from bandcamp, because postage & import taxes of any physical media from outside the UK is stupidly expensive. For example, a $25 LP from Sharon is Karen (a US bandcamp artist) became a $78 LP when shipping & taxes were included, so a $7 (+ vat) hi res flac download is what I bought. I don't do streaming, I like to own the music I listen to. Downloads allow me to hear new music relatively inexpensively & support the artist where the physical media is too costly.
Not a general public selection, unfortunately. Retail matters, wholesale does it.
I too only buy cd’s and happy to do so. What I have done many times in the past is catch up, that is to say I’ll start delving into a band or artist I only know a little bit about perhaps just their singles and as my interest grows I’ll buy their back catalogue (adding to higher cd sales figures!) My latest “discovery” is The Cranberries… I’ve gradually bought just about all their studio albums and boy am I pleased!…in other words I’m cock a hoop that cd’s are selling in respectable numbers be it new or old releases…love it!
Hi there Phil, I’m a fairly new subscriber to your channel and I really like what you’re doing. I’ve always preferred physical music over streaming or download anyway.
Having said that, you had mentioned here that “Physical music is alive and well.” - With it making up only around 17% of the entire music industry, I will agree with you that it’s alive. However, I would not say that it is doing “well” at all.
The numbers tell the story. I’ll always support it no matter what and I know you said that to remain positive as it’s fitting for someone with your channel’s content to say. I wouldn’t expect you to say “physical media is in the toilet compared to streaming” on your own channel anyway lol.
Regardless I will continue to follow you and your updates and hope you have a good one! 😊
I can see where you are coming from. When I started this there was a feeling that CDs were dead and we were going to get to a point where no one would be making any. Also vinyl was an incredibly small part of the story. In fact I was convinced I was the only guy I knew who still bought physical media at all. So going from almost zero to 17% and still growing makes me feel that this 'niche' is here to stay. Plus it's worth a fair bit of money so there is more investment in it now. It will never be what it was but with younger fans buying CDs and vinyl I feel confident about the future - Phil
@NowSpinningMagazine understood and no argument here! Thx 🙏
Excellent insights into the music industry Phil 👏🏻 👌 👍🏻
Despite the increases of sales/percentages of physical formats and my own large consumption of music I can increasingly relate to it being a niche or odd thing to do. Just by the attitudes of people who don't pay for these things.
This despite the increases although significant in their own way they feel arbitrary as a consumer..
Great video, Phil.
It’s great that you’re pointing out all the positives and how it is still possible to make a go of being a musician, and spelling out how fans can best support their favourite artists.
I don’t think this is always obvious or considered by a lot of people. So good to put it all into context, in our ever changing world.
It would be, perhaps, useful to engage with, say, When Rivers Meet and Cats In Space, to get their take on what they’ve done well and what went wrong; collect tips for other upcoming artists, and also how best fans can help. I’m sure they’d be willing to give you some insights and input.
Maybe that could be the beginnings of an ‘Artist’s Forum’, on Now Spinning Magazine? Who knows where that could lead?!
Thanks 🙏.
I think it's unlikely you'll get criticism from artists of their record labels in the same way that if I criticised my company in a public place, they would come down hard on me also - and I do believe in ethical behaviour towards your "employer".
I don't see many musicians queuing up in like to support me when I go in to see my boss to ask for a pay rise, and yet as physical music lovers, it's almost like we're supposed to take pity on musicians specifically when they "plead poverty" and just put up with the ever increasing prices of physical media. To be fair, I don't the musicians have control over that, there's just too many fat and rich "middle-men" between us and them that take their cut.
Plus, as I've said in my main comment here, when we buy CDs or vinyl, we're paying excessive prices to subsidise the "legalised theft" of music streaming.
Hi Terry, None of the musicians I know have a steady salary, most are not even making the minimum wage. The price of CD and vinyl production has increased but they also have seen an increase in food, energy, bills etc. However, it is hard for many people to see the value in something if they can also get it for free. I use streaming for discovery and Apple music so I can take my music collection with me in the car. For musicians streaming is a form of theft, for the big labels it is a revenue stream based on contracts drawn up before a single computer appeared on a desk. I agree that the big labels are seeing a certain demographic as a cash cow and have no interest in keeping many of these box set releases on catalog beyond the initial flurry of sales. For musicians now they need to look at subscription models and doing fan only releases and content. Thank you for your comments of this subject. I will continue to do these videos as it is something that really interests me. The other thing the big labels are doing now is not supplying Amazon with new releases. For example the Phil Manzanera box set is only available from Universal. They are even setting up Bandcamp pages! Phil
@@NowSpinningMagazine Whenever I mention that big online retailer, YT censors or deletes my comments - but one of the best things I did was cancel my subscription membership with them, mainly because most CDs are sold by marketplace sellers anyway and don't qualify for the free or expedited delivery.
Plus the wife watches the video stuff and wasn't happy that they started sticking ads into it, even though we were paying for it.
Since I didn't renew it in June, I've seen how expensive they are (when you factor in their delivery charges) and now I am buying most of my music from that online auction site or directly from the record labels.
Ultimately, the tiny downside is having to wait a couple more days for delivery, but at our age we've learned patience!
Don't get me wrong, there's a "convenience" to iTunes for music portability, I just rip my CDs myself to achieve the same thing as you.
What I would like to know, Phil, is who's buying physical formats, which age groups? I suspect the numbers drop dramatically when it comes to the under 20s. Another thing, and you've said this yourself, is that in the 70s, with only pocket money, maybe a Saturday job, we couldn't afford to buy everything. You might hear a single on the radio, or on TOTPS, that you like, but not actually buy it. You might borrow an album from a friend, or the local library, and not buy it. You had to be selective. So, there's a parallel there with these times when it comes to streaming vs purchasing physical media.
Very good show, intersting stats and good advice to new bands ❤
This was another great episode thanks Phil.🎶🎤🎸🎸🎹🥁🎶
What worries me is the future. The legacy bands/artists who came up in the past still have the fanbase and the power behind them. It's great to see these artists like David Gilmour and the Cure do well, have new albums out and sell out stadiums, etc, but who will be the legacy artists of the next 20 years? There's lot's of great new music and artists around, but I feel you have to hunt for it, which music geeks like us do anyway. But most people don't, they want it served on a platter and in the past they did get it served on a platter. Artists used to be signed on contracts for numerous albums and given time to evolve, but record companies don't seem to want to do that know. I know next to nothing about Taylor Swift, but good for her, she seems to be doing alright, but feel this is an exception to the rule.
It's a very curious exception to the rule. Certain artists do seem to have colossal amounts of backing and promotion from the record industry and the media. Often these individuals to me seem very mediocre in terms of their talent and creativity, I know that's perhaps a subjective opinion but that's just my perception, I don't regard retro-80s synth pop and resurrecting Madonna's shtick as ground-breaking, maybe others do, as I said that's subjective. Meanwhile, I see very talented people struggle to be noticed and have little to no attention. I am not even sure how it works now and how someone can 'crack' it.
Excellent point on who will be the legacy artists of the future. It certainly wont be a Simon Cowell artist
but that was never on his agender i suppose.
@@theshayhouseofficial As someone who does the occasional hunt through CD racks in charity shops, it amuses me to always see the "same old, same old" albums in their racks - X-Factor winner at Christmas but in the charity shops by Easter!
They've made popular music into a disposable commodity - "don't let the artist get too big for their boots, get rid of them within a year or two and just get a new lot in".
My musical tastes are stuck in the late 1960's and the entirety of the 1970's, mainly because I grew up in those years anyway and those were my first musical experiences.
I've tried getting into modern bands but there was a phase during the 1990's and early 2000's where a lot of seemingly-interesting bands released one or two really good tracks, I went and bought the album on the strength of those, and those were the only two good tracks on the album anyway.
I've since gone back to the 1960's and 1970's and just expanded what I listen to from those eras. Even a lot of the albums I own from the 1980's I just can't stand now - case in point being "David Coverdale's Heavy Metal Whitesnake" albums like 1987 and beyond which I really don't need to hear again - yet I absolutely adore the first 6 "Moody/Marsden" Whitesnake albums.
Ultimately there's more than enough good music for me to explore and enjoy from the 1960's and 1970's, so what legacy is left by more modern artists is of no real concern anyway.
There are good artists and bands out there, but they always end up sounding like someone else from the 1960's or 1970's and they just remind me to go dig those albums out, rather than buy their new albums (because of when I got "stung" a lot by new artists as I said above).
Don't get me wrong, I hope these artists succeed at what they do and create their own younger audiences but there's not a lot that I hear now that makes me want to buy it - "Cats In Space" are clearly influenced by the 1970's and I do genuinely hope they do well but when I listen to their music, there's always "something missing" to my old ears, and it doesn't gel with me.
Another great video Phil,
your some up of bands/musicians song journey from conception to release is spot on.
My branch of Waterstones has started selling vinyl!
One of the largest markets for physical media now is second hand stuff on ebay and discogs. It is for me anyhow. The only new stuff I buy is box sets for legacy acts, and new releases for smaller bands that are never going to trouble the charts. Arena gigs are not attractive, and the only gigs I go to are smaller venues, again for smaller acts, and festivals - and even those are becoming too much of a bother, camping wise.
Here's where I disagree with some of what you say, Phil. And, just for the record, neither the wife or I, or any close family members, have jobs connected with the music industry, so I can speak as an outsider who just loves a lot of the music produced within that industry.
As far as I am concerned, music streaming is "legalised theft" where the "middle-men" (mostly Apple and Netflix) take their cut as the hosting platforms, the record labels take most of the rest of it and the artists end up getting very little. At the same time, with the popularity of streaming, the musicians cannot afford to ignore it because exposure means popularity, and popularity leads to concert tours and merchandise sales where the artists do end up making a bit more money (and rightfully so) - albeit after another "middle-man" (the ticket seller, and we know which company I am talking about here) takes their huge cut.
Secondly, you keep us informed on physical music sales and for the past couple of years, sales of music on CD and vinyl have increased. In a capitalist market, what that means is more CDs and LPs are manufactured and sold, therefore the price of them should be at least remaining constant, or even decreasing. But they don't, they keep increasing - that's a "warning sign" to me.
I love my box sets and my CDs, music is my number one hobby and in practice it has meant that over the past decades I may have purchased some albums three or four times, due to remasters and adding additional tracks. A box set usually means I can get multiple albums cheaper than buying each one separately but most of them are still overpriced. That music has already been made and recorded, I'm not paying for musican studio time to create the music or heavy marketing of a new album made as a result. I am simply paying for an engineer to remaster the music and someone else to compile it and package it. Big box sets like the recent Rory Gallagher one (which I missed out due to HMV's incompetence) and the Billy Bragg one show that they can do a really nice package and still average out at far less than £5 per CD in the box set. That should be achievable on all box sets.
I am extremely happy with what record companies like Cherry Red, Repertoire and Grapefruit have been releasing for me to buy, but I think those of us who buy physical media are often being taken as "suckers" by them - and I almost feel like we're expected to subsidise the money musicians don't get because of streaming by us paying even more inflated prices for our physical media.
One final point - I know of at least one Internet site that I could go to now and download just about any album that I want to in FLAC format, stick it on my home server and have that album to play whenever I like and completely free of charge. I don't use that site because I don't want to "de-value" my music - you appreciate something more if you put in effort to making it yourself or you pay some money for it.
And that's why music streaming is "legal theft" because, in the same way, as soon as someone has free access to just about any album they want, its value lessens in their eyes because they just pay a small monthly subscription for it - unlike me and the great people here, who value the music more (we're "proper fans" of the music) and are expected to subsidise that "legal theft".
Love the show thanks for covering this subject.
I never thought I would see the day that the music land scape would change .
Even tho people like too stream I find streaming . I am finding that streaming has become a threat for the record company.
But on the up side all for mates are good .
The biggest difference between the record industry of today vs yesterday IMO (20+ years ago) is scale. Artists have literally gone bankrupt even after selling 500,000 or even a million units of an album(s). The record labels have ALWAYS been in the business to recoup their costs and to grow their existing business(s). This is simply Business 101. There have been story after story about artists and bands that literally owe their futures/lives to record companies because of "bad" record contracts that were signed by under/misrepresented individuals and bands. The biggest difference that I can see is that there is far less physical product(s) to sell the consumer in today's market (money/revenue streams) as compared to previous generations. The main revenue streams that are available to artists in the 21st century are touring and merchandising. These were always, historically speaking, supplemental to physical album sales. The margins (profit wise) have always been slim for the artist and individuals selling said product, but enormous for the entities that control publishing rights, etc. especially when you are talking numbers in the "millions".
A really interesting video Phil, the sort that makes this channel pretty much unique.
Have you ever spoken to Steven Wilson about this sort of thing? I’m reading his book at the moment and he has interesting views on the subject of making a living out of music.
Phil, I "own" thousands of downloads, (including lots of bootlegs, taken off TH-cam) which I can play anytime in car, or in usb port of my integrated amp or Cd player, where as with streaming, you do not "own". I refuse to give in to the streaming companies. I buy both vinyl and CD but downloads are a nice option. IMO
Interesting Phil, thank you. Wondering if you always make historical comparison by units sold rather than dollars / pounds sold as the cost of Vinyl has shot upwards pretty dramatically lately, yes?
One of Englands best kept secrets a country singer from Liverpool called Nathan Carter has great attitude to the new way of doing things I have met him a few times at his met and greats. Irish Country artists also do holiday trips to Spain and Portugal and some country music presenters organise holidays to Nashville and Graceland. Plus they always still able to sell their albums and dvds This model might and could be adopted by other artists of different artists.
Interesting video Phil. The high percentage of `Catalogue` sales is not a new phenomenon. Can`t remember the exact figures but I remember way back in the 1990`s even then the catalogue album sales were helping to keep the music business afloat. This was a time when Dance music was dominating the singles chart but most of those `Dance` artists were not making albums that were selling in great numbers hence the Catalogue sales were beginning to dominate. Allow me to give you two specific examples from the 90`s that emphasised how bad things had become - Example 1 is that in the same calendar week 9 of the top 10 singles were dance orientated yet in the top 10 albums it was the exact reverse with only 1 of the top 10 dance orientated. That says a lot. Example 2 was a week when 5 (50%!)of the top 10 singles were cover versions or re-issues of old singles. I`ll try to look this up later as I can`t remember all the titles but one of those 5 songs I remember specifically was Nick Berry`s remake of `Heartbeat`. On a radio show around the same time some music journalists and musicians were talking about how a new Tin Pan Alley needed to be created (David Coverdale might have been one of the panel on that show?). As much as I love Abba (seen them live twice) and Fleetwood Mac (seen them and Stevie Nicks solo live) I despair a little when I see each week that their compilations are still so high in the charts week after week after week after week.....New music MUST be given a platform and a chance to shine.
All things in life how are made in small numbers, so its secord hand, new and back catterlog. But if you can do new it helps the artist more, but you most keep buying and spinging, in the end ownship is all as it's your to sping any time and it can not and that's the joy , you can sping your collection for life and on your journey help your bands and artist.
They don't rely on record sales, or they can't financially survive (it has actually always been that way, as the record is made for the hardware it is played on). Your channel can't survive on content alone, they've got to add merch like you have here and ramp it up over and above music it takes time to find and listen to. It's just how it is, like Ramones or the Raiders, people will wear the shirt and not even listen to the band or follow the team. And so many in the music business not even knowing what they're doing and never find out. Quite the abundance of it. 150k releases a day. Well, in 1993 we had 17k releases a month. Think about it, there's no place to go but into the abyss. Marketing does the business or good luck. It's not realistic as an artist to think along the overall industry numbers, but to rather concentrate on what it is they can do, or it can backfire because it will never be measured up to. The independent artist needs to exist within their own means. As for record labels, they're all still bound to distributors and their first cuts. That's where the actual power is, because it's NEVER getting out commercially without them. Just remember, artists don't have to do this business, so it all starts with them and there's nothing to be had without the material they produce and then bring to distributors and labels. There is no such thing as be talented and you're in, it's about seeing what you can do and who you can get it in front of. Major labels have nothing to do with any of it, they own the rights, so such artists get less than people think. Recouping with interest and they don't even own it. Face it, that's over. Deep Purple owns their music, because as I am saying they make a record and present it to the label, and then the label is either on board or not. What do they do? They distribute and promote it, with a design department, some videos, etc. They don't have anything to do with it until it is presented to them. Zilch
Sorry but I don’t agree that albums aren’t now released for the Xmas market .
For example the newly remastered , remixed and relabelled debut Queen album now called Queen 1 is a prime example of this , plus the release of the new albums by David Gilmour , The Cure and by Tears for Fears are also targeted at the Xmas market . Another old record marketing ploy to sell extra copies of a previously released album is to re release it as a deluxe version like the new Duran Duran album Danse Macabre which personally I think is disrespectful to the loyal fans who bought the album on original release This is just one example of this practice of later releasing another version of an already released album
The fact we can literally name them all suggests the numbers are smaller. I was getting my stats from Music Week which is the trade magazine for the music business and The Cure is seen as the last big release before Christmas.
@@NowSpinningMagazine I see the point that you are making but then again the Rolling Stones marketing ploy is to release their new live album at Shepherds Bush next month a couple of weeks before Xmas which is another good example of a Xmas release and if memory serves me well didn’t they release their last studio album before Xmas as another cash grab !
At least this year neither Take That or Robbie Bleeding Williams are dominating the end of year album charts ! lol
@@NowSpinningMagazine Aren’t you forgetting the new Rolling Stones live at Shepherds Bush album is coming out in 2 weeks before Xmas and that the Stones last album was sold at the same time of year
I don't at all think it is "disrespectful" to re-release an old album with remastering and employing the latest engineering techniques - ultimately it's the fans in their reviews who will decide how good or "sympathetic" to the original release the new "mix" is.
I do think that the prices of some re-releases are a rip-off. Sure, a box set should give "better value for money" than buying each album separately, but I think in a box set of 5 CDs or more, it should ALWAYS be possible to bring that in at no more than £5 per CD (which many box sets have done, to be fair).
We are being ripped off by too many "middle-men" between us and the artists, even as CD buyer - I bet the vinyl enthusiasts feel even more ripped off.
@@terrydaktyllus1320 Sorry but I think that you have misunderstood what o meant which is releasing a new album and then a few months later usually in the same year releasing a deluxe version with extra tracks when as a loyal fan you have already bought the album
Most of the hysteria about Cd's being dead eminates from the US and as we know the US think they are the entire world!
I disagree, the USA, the Five Eyes countries and Europe tend to "follow suit" on this type of stuff.
Pete Pardo's "Sea of Tranquility" channel in the USA has just crossed 100K subscribers (and well done to him) and all he ever talks about are CDs.
So pleased for Pete at SOT, it shows what can be done whilst still not going down the 'clickbait' route which many other channels seems to do. I can see why are negativity wins everytime of social media but I just can't do it. You would believe the titles YT's AI suggests I should use! Phil
@@NowSpinningMagazine I think there's a big difference to treating YT as a more of a hobby rather than making it a large proportion of your livelihood, or even all of it.
I believe Pete's in a full time job anyway and I understand a lot of what you do is via the magazine and web site, so neither of you "depend" on YT's income or hits.
Pete's channel has grown organically without any clickbait nonsense and I sure yours will do the same.
I keep thinking about doing a channel myself (probably a bit of music and computing stuff) but I work full time and am heavily involved in a social club locally, and I just prefer to do things in face-to-face environments there as opposed to online. Any income I was to get from YT (and I am not a Google fan by any stretch of the imagination because of privacy concerns) would just be "pocket money" anyway.