Seriously the biggest airtight method update in a while, that last video with that dude had me pumped for what is to come. We have all the parts, now how can we make it best? It just keeps getting better. Love it.
Yeah, I’m excited about trying this. Seems like there were better methods for cold climates but I was not very satisfied with with a continuous air barrier when doing a conditioned attic. I think this will work well.
Scott's idea is honestly the biggest change for airsealing in construction I've seen. He took the perfect wall that is a niche for great framers and made it attainable for a normal framing crew. I can't wait to try this!
Scott's idea create cavity which cannot dry outside or inside. Thru the open cell foam moisture can easily travel to the cavity and there will condensate especially at winter. Matt's solution is much more bether.
Blake, I think you make an important point here - for framers whose primary focus is on quality work and who are comfortable going outside textbook framing methods, the original ‘Potato Head’ style of Monopoly framing is better, as it has fewer failure points and is less finicky to execute. It also naturally accommodates modern-style structures which might feature a flush eaves (no overhangs). That said, the airtight integrated soffit shown by Scott is of course better than a conventional leaky one, IF those are the only two options. I would see Scott’s method as a handy interim band-aid to be used only while conventional framers get to grips with more high-performance details - I think that should be a priority in the industry, and requires only relatively minor adjustments to current practice.
@@jakubsebor4756 I think they're both using closed cell spray foam, because they talk about the spray foam being used also as an air barrier in the video with Scott and in this one (which would not apply to open cell). But yeah, point taken, in that (1) we should be very clear when talking about spray foam on if we're talking about close cell or open cell, and (2) it is important to get the spray foam all the way to the base of the cavity and fill it completely -- no voids where trapped air can provide condensate during winter months.
@@jakubsebor4756 Matt's solution or his home - he did not diffuse properly at the ridge and he used closed cell on the roof. This fellow, needs to diffuse and your dry outside or inside comment is extremely relevant on both solutions. Matt has created a dumpster fire on air tightness, in my mind, because of his need for sponsorship. He cant provide objective and or accurate design considerations. People need to be careful on You Tube.
I really like this cost saving method of air sealing and will definitely use it when I build my dream home. The cost of home construction has skyrocketed in recent years, but those of us who aren't stinking rich still want a high quality, air tight, water tight home that will stand the test of time. Please keep these building science approved cost saving tips coming!
Amen to that! Scott is really conscientious about costs and I've started following him wherever I could. I also found him being interviewed by Corbett Lunsford on his TH-cam channel. Cheers, Eric
Wow this video came at such a perfect time for me. I had already thought of doing this but there's something about seeing Matt Risingers stamp of approval on an idea!
Working on first new construction framing job, it’s possible from all of the knowledge you have shared over the past few years. Thank you so much for what you do Matt, our industry needs more instruction on best practices.
This definitely looks like the simpler way to go. I do have a few questions. Is it better to go wall sheathing first and then the underside of the overhang, or the other way around? And is there an easier way to address that intersection than to caulk/liquid flash that seam? Should the Zip-R panels be mitered? Do you do Zip-R over the facia board (or in lieu of)? It would be great to have a vid that really steps through the process with illustrations showing construction details.
While this method is a great advance for air sealing a home with a conditioned attic, for those people who plan to build a home with an unconditioned, vented attic there is an even simpler method to air seal the home - build a structural attic floor, run the OSB on top of the attic floor joists and seal the edges and seams with sealant and tape. Then place your raised heel trusses on top of this attic floor "deck" (your truss installers will love being able to walk around on this flat deck). Now your conditioned living space is completely separated from your unconditioned attic space and as a bonus all your pot lights and HVAC ducts can run through the attic floor system (which is within the conditioned space).
Matt is right about closed or open cell for air sealing. I did a total gut remodel of an end townhouse. I wanted to have a conditioned attic space so i blocked all the spaces in the soffit for the closed cell spray foam contractor. After the spray foam the attic looked great. Because i was doing most of the work myself it was a slow build and the drywall was not install for a few months. The broad side of the townhouse sits on the open bay of a barrier island in South Jersey. In the winter the wind can blow unobstructed off the bay at 30 mph. The house was generally comfortable through the winter even without heat when the wind wasn't blowing. One of those winter days during the build with the wind cranking I walked into the corner bedroom and it felt like someone opened a window. there was a void in the spray foam in that corner of the roof. I don't blame the foam contractor as that corner of the attic is very tight and hard to reach. I used can foam to fill and found several much smaller leaks using the cold 30 mph wind as my cheap blower door. if the job was being done by a general contractor it is a good chance it would have never been corrected and i would be wondering why the master bedroom was so cold.
I would think that the inside corner between the wall and the soffit, that is being caulked will have consistency problems and might fail to be airtight. Tape over a long run has pretty consistent airtightness, but caulking up under that corner is awkward for the laborer so they might rush or not be able to see how well they are applying, and caulk doesn't do a good job of bridging more than small separations. A blower door test would be great to see.
I would love to see a video on how to get a conditioned attic space on a retro fit house. One where all the drywall is in. Is that possible. Or some steps to take when putting a new roof on an old house.
Your biggest issue is how you're going to vent the roof assembly if you do a conditioned attic. With that in mind I think Matt's other method of adding rafter tails on afterwards would allow you to do that better.
At the soffit level you are almost creating a sips panel with the sandwich, hats off to everyone In the community for making improvements and small steps to make a better envelope
We did Monopoly framing on our Off Grid home and although it worked I don't plan to do it again. In the future I plan to slip the sheathing up into the soffit space, notching around the trusses (doesn't take long) and then liquid flashing the seams (again, doesn't take that long). Then spray foam and done. I think this will name a much strong overhang vs trying to attach it to the side of the housem. Videos on my channel of the build.
I'm all about the tight budget. I need/ want three foot overhangs or bigger. Thanks. FYI... I've started wrapping the fascia with Ice and Water shield, always gets trimmed after. I tie it into the roof Ice & water shield. Little cost for extra water protection. I got tired of seeing rotten rafter tails. This may be a weird question. Is there a spray on caulk? Faster and easier when using rafters over porches or long overhangs on trusses. Would a spray on basement waterproofing work? I'm thinking something like "Flex Seal". Thoughts?
Probably a huge labor savings in just sheeting in the standard truss or hand-cut rafters versus monopoly framing and adding on overhangs after the fact.. I think a good evolution, but a bit more material and a different look when finished, open tails versus sheeted in eaves. Nice evolution and choices in either case, thanks Matt.
Matt, I am so thankful to you and Scott! This is a brilliant detail using Zip Sheathing. NOW... IF you were to do this again (budget & energy performance in mind), would you use the "InSoFast" as your EXTERIOR insulation? 😜 This is exciting! Cheers, Eric
Very nice. It's so funny looking at the old style of how under the house and the roof / attic being open. This is how our current house is and I can't wait to buy some land and build a new house using a lot of the great tips found on this channel and others. Thanks Matt!
I'm slightly lost on the cost savings on this method vs monopoly. There seems to be more joints to tape or caulk. It does seem to save an entire layer of roof sheathing, though. With this method, could the soffit overhangs not be sealed on the underside of the roof sheathing without the additional sheathing under the soffit? Or is the concern the under side of the roof sheathing (that extends past the floor footprint) should not be exposed to outside air? Would moisture wick up and down, inside and out? There's a lot going on here, would love some more information on the thought process. I also wonder if there's another option to do monopoly, but instead of nailing the overhands on top of the roof deck they could be nailed onto the outside walls and still create the overhang. Imagine a triangular piece of framing with L-brackets that screws into the outside wall, matches roof pitch, and matches height of the roof after adding sheathing on top, and tape the joint from the roof to the overhang. These extensions could be built assembly-line style. The overhang part of the roof sheathing would have the back exposed to outside air, but the interior would still be sealed at the corner joint, and sealed on top to the roof with tape.
The whole point of the “perfect wall” and “perfect roof” system was to bring the insulation to the outside of the frame for simplicity. I’m lost on how this is in any way related when they skip having the empty cavity and spray foam anyway. He’s addicted to that stuff and now we no longer are “on a budget”.
I just had my trusses built to original perfect wall with a 2x12 rim joist around the roof trusses. That results in a super easy to frame perfect wall roof. I then run structural screws through the perfect wall at an upwards angle to attach eaves which are generally made from 2' cut-offs of scrap. Not only are my labor costs actually lower overall, but I have less waste, and I don't create a complex conditioned space.
@@kaiseranonymous i0.wp.com/www.energyvanguard.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/raised-heel-truss-american-plywood-association.jpg?fit=800%2C600&ssl=1 Try that with a 2x12 on top of the wall around the perimeter.
Great solution!, I'm currently building my own house, taking a lot of useful info from you're experience and BSC community, I was wondering how the overhung solution depicted here will support exterior insulation using ventilated roof. Can you elaborate please?
Matt, you have all these solutions for problems few builders considered, my question to you is why is your way better? Do you have historical data to back your recommendations and why hasn't your team installed sensors to monitor moisture infiltration in critical pron areas if what you preach is solid. A lot of us won't be around 100 years to dispute the findings but knowing sensor monitor vital signs of a dwelling may back you clam for years. Like that your on top of new building ideas but history tells us . . .some things just don't work well. Long time fan just my thoughts. . .
Nice alternative. Great budget work around. Show is more after progress is made in the budget friendly alts. Would like to see those. Any follow-up on the hemp bale building down south?I
Instead of using the bird blocking on rafters that are continuous from the roof for the covered porch, why not do this small section with your "monopoly framing" and use a ledger board for tying in the porch rafters; like is done with balloon framing for interior floors or adding a deck. That seems like less labor and material to me.
- this Idea was in my head too - basically double rafter over the external insulation for roof airgap - with eave / escutcheon ledgered off the external insulation )or partly suspended fron the "over rafter"/1.5 inch furring. using strappping... NB, not a builder so I don't know what is impossible yet.
Matt, why not use green glue or a similar product sprayed through an airless on those bird blocks? It can also be used at seams in the framing where foam or anything else can't fit but air gets through.
How do we find builders in our area that subscribe to this type of building. Does Matt have a ongoing list of builders or network. That would be awesome!
can anyone share a link (the best link) on this monopoly framing? I am particularly interested in all aspects of the perfect wall method as well. And yes, I am an older generation builder and I have always had to deal with this intersection using various techniques going back to the mid 1970's. The advancement in this build design is outstanding. As a very neutral and limited knowledge observer, I kind of am in favor of the monopoly framing or perfect wall technique more. I tend to favor the full reframing technique, but will have to look at videos more closely and the details needed. It just seems to limit your overhang design using the "Scott method." But this is better than what most are doing now. Keep up the good work toward building the perfect house as well.
Matt, you talk about building "100-year houses" with Zip system, but Huber guarantees the adhesive on their flashing tape for only 30 years. Does that mean that seams will start to open in year 31? I guess we'll have to wait and see, but it in the meantime I'm having trouble squaring your claims against theirs.
Matt, I’ve been watching you for years, your in Texas and always seal to the exterior. I’m in Alaska so I have to do it the opposite way, got any ideas, thanks
I'm trying to do the math on the closed cell spray foam cost to fill those cavities vs just paying for the labor and diligence to do blocking and air sealing. Seems like each soffit is 14" x 6" x 24", which I think costs $20-30 in spray foam. I imagine someone could add blocking and seal a soffit up in ~30 minutes. Of course, sufficiently cheap labor to meet that pricing probably also means they don't do the blocking and sealing diligence that will produce a comparable outcome. Anyone have any other ideas or comparisons that should be made?
Hi Matt, can the perfect wall system be applied to a post-frame barndominium-style home? My thought is to maximize performance and affordability per sq. ft. with minimal regard to aesthetics or tradition.
with a barn, you could do the "perfect wall/roof" inside the steel rainscreen... OR just put up continuous poly iso or xps.. then frame/finish the interior.
You could do exterior insulation with a solid insulation board product, but I doubt that the price/performance ratio would stand up compared to insulating inside the steel exterior skin. Even with working around the thermal bridging for the posts. The products involved are just too expensive for the quantities needed. Instead I would focus on air-tightness and over-insulating (by conventional standards) using more traditional pole barn construction techniques. Even if you have to box frame around the posts to eliminate thermal bridging. Doing exterior insulation also won't translate well if you have a partially-insulated building, which is one of the big appeals of pole barn construction: you can have an affordable and very large attached garage that is less insulated than the residence. That's harder to manage with exterior insulation since you have to transition.
What is the load bearing capacity of the engineered lumber he used on his house? Or even better, how far is it safe to go out with a 60psf snow load 16 oc?
I would love to see a blower door test BEFORE the spray foam in the ceiling (like after some down near the soffits). How is this a cost savings if you’re going to fill the whole thing with spray foam anyway? The whole point of putting the insulation on the outside in the “perfect” system is because it’s just not very easy to get it in the cavity (and expensive). Really at a loss how it’s a tight budget if they are using all the XPS and Spray foam too??
Why not just tape OSB and then use building paper and EPS foam? Wouldn’t that more or less be the same thing? Yes you have to go around the building a couple extra times, but paper and exterior foam goes fast and is affordable.
To avoid the lapped rafters for the deck roof resulting in bird blocking, couldn't you just terminate the interior rafters into a double rim board (a single might be fine), wrap the taped zip sheathing system from the roof down the side of the exterior down to the rough opening for the slider doors, then attach a ledger board on the outside of the zip system to the doubled rim joist with carriage bolts which would be used to hang the porch roof joists? Then you have an uninterrupted exterior envelope air barrier with the deck roof attached onto the outside of this envelope rather than penetrating it? It's not a cantilevered roof and has a perimeter structure to hold the end of the roof anyway. It would be like building an angled deck but one without a live load calc to hold people.
Typically wall rainscreen is separated from the vented roof deck, ostensibly to prevent fire migration through the structure. Lots of variations are possible.
I'm not loving the diaphragm connection between the roof deck and the walls without blocking. You have your rafters in the "rollover" condition to transfer those forces. I thought code requires blocking for that reason. Also I'm wondering why there isn't strapping or hurricane ties on any of the truss or rafters maybe I'm missing that. Need to have a load path for roof uplift forces.
Hi Matt. It is my understanding that roof sheathing needs to be vented on the underside to maintain shingle warrenty. Additionally you spray foam the underside of the roof sheathing. How do you or don't you handle this? Metal roofing?
That’s an extremely common misconception. Unvented attic assemblies have been used for decades without any degradation of shingle life whatsoever. If you want to check out the research for yourself google “Florida solar commission shingle life study”
@@buildshow So you just ignore the fact that the singles are no longer covered by the warrant? I agree that ventilation isn't required from a building science perspective, but it still seems dangerous for liability. I guess Single manufacture warranties are blatantly promoting antiquated building practices.
@@buildshow Matt, I love your youtube channel, using the best of high performance building techniques. I'm a roofing contractor and general contractor. I want to build my personal home using the monopoly framing method ERV, etc.. How do you handle venting the attic and crawl space when completely sealing all aspects of the home?
This is Texas anyway. No one uses shingle warranties. Everyone who gets their roof replaced gets it through insurance because a hail storm came onto an aged roof. Also, that rule only holds for colder zones.
Hi Matt. I'm planning a house in Canada and want my builder to consider using the Zip system, but he says its 30% more expensive than conventional sheathing and he's not convinced there will be labor savings. Do you have anything I can show him ? Love your channel.
It most likely won't be cheaper than basic sheathing and insulation as there will be a crew "learning curve", but if you want it just tell him how it is, your build your wallet - unless you are getting a project house built then the variation cost will kill the budget most likely. (source the material independently and have the team install it - possibly these are areas when owner builder/self managed project, is better than having a prime contractor, though there are always pitfalls)
I saw on the Zip Sheathing that it was a "30 year system". That concerns me since a house is obviously good for much longer and sheathing isn's something that's exactly easy to replace. What can be expected beyond 30 years?
With my THOW I'm having to think about weight reduction as well. So instead of sheathing the soffit, I'm doing this same detail but by taping delta vent S into place.
i got major daylight on sistered rafters on that patio or eves ............major air leaks when the studs dry , some roll a little and you see daylight
Whenever I approach builders with these super airtight systems, they typically dismiss it. They claim it may look good for a door blower test but over the long term the house doesn’t breath well. Maybe it’s more of a concern because we’re in the NW? Any thoughts on that line of thinking?
It does need dehumidification, and a ERV to bring in fresh air. More concern is needed for make-up air for vents over the stove. If you have a leaky house, make-up air isn’t as much of a concern. It’s a lot easier building a house without having to do a proper HVAC design, but it will be less comfortable and have higher indoor particulates, and more expensive to operate. Change is hard, and those builders aren’t ready for change.
I would love to see the visconn product from 475 supply applied up those bird blocks on the porch. It would be so much faster than caulking, and the labor savings would wash out any labor increase.
Does this outside airtight system work in the colder climates like Canada where I see most effort is put to making the inside airtight and then Tyvek type outside ?
You will add poly to the interior side of the wall in Canada, because you heat in the winter. And if you put closed or open cell foam on the outside - you trap moisture and rot your wall.
Not gonna lie; I wish this info had come out before I started building my own house a year ago. The monopoly framing was difficult to mimic using only TH-cam videos 😂
Matt - for Christmas get those framers a milwaukee m12 caulk gun with sausage tube attachment! With how much yall caulk it will increase efficiency and save their hands/forearms!
This seems like a much better way to build if you want overhangs. Ripping LVLs seems like way too much work in comparison. I'm going to try this method soon on the office shed I'm designing for my brother-in-law.
Homes have moisture (cooking/showering ) if you seal it completely you need to condition the air / keep moisture in check with airco or air exchange system. If you vent the roof the moisture in your house can transfer out to the attic and to the outside.
@@davidbruce5377 @Susy Easterly the simple answer is, if you are building a low air leakage house, you have to have a controlled ventilation system. In this case the attic is conditioned space and wouldn’t have any rot issues. It’s the same air as the house.
@@theleiteone83 Yes, but you have to allow for diffusion at the ridge and that requires, leaving the ridge free of polyiso, closed or open cell. Put Comfortboard up there, but for all reasons, don't put any foam. I didn't here anyone mention the ridge in this video and if folks want to learn from other builders, they need all relevant information. The ridge in my opinion, is where the moisture goes. All the mech venting in the world, will not change that completely.
I see some dumb answers above so I will try to make it clear. In the Monopoly house Matt's built for himself it is sealed on all sides but the roof is not integrated into that structure and there is a venting system between that structure and the roof assembly. Because moisture in the house is taken up by the HVAC system the conditioned attic being included doesn't have moisture problems and the moisture Ingress from the roof assembly is removed by the venting system between the Monopoly house barrier and the roof assembly.
Vapor pressure goes from inside to out so a Zipwall (perm rating 16) will act as a vapor barrier and condensation will occur. Walls in cold climate must be able to dry from the outside.
Are you saying Zipwall is unusable in cold climates? Why would there be vapor pressure if there's no air movement through the wall? If you used zip-r there's probably no chance of condensation?
@@steelddd Zipwall system need a 2 inch spray foam between studs (you can't have vapor barriers on both side), water vapor should never reach it's dew point.
I noticed that European building techniques have everything outside breathable insulation for quick drying and their sheathing+wrb/ab is on the inside. I wonder how their system compares to ours.
The walls in Northern European building are like this: 1) There's wood fiber based breathable but wind proof sheeting behind the cladding (you can leave this out if you're really skimping though), 2) rock wool or other breathable wool insulation within the structure of the wall, 3) inside there's an air/moisture barrier, which can be either basically a very thin plastic wrap, or thicker closed cell plastic sheets taped up to act as both extra insulation and the air/moisture barrier. 4) Inside of that will be drywall, wood paneling or whatever
The reason for this probably is that for the longest part of the year in Northern Europe, outside air will be colder than inside air, so if you did what Matt does here, water would condense at the inside face of the Zip sheeting and run into your framing and insulation, as the Zip sheets can be at way below freezing temperatures. When the moisture barrier is right behind the drywall, the insulation is kept very dry by the freezing outside air.
The majority of UK houses are quite old so it's either solid brick walls or cavity block & brick - both moisture permeable. Solid walls are terrible insulators so now retrofit external insulation is being fitted, often closed cell foam so might be building up a moisture problem in future...
Wondering the same…. Especially in attic spaces that have fireplace flue penetration that has a tendency to warm the attic space. Having soffit and ridge venting in the winter serves to keep this space cool enough to prevent freeze and thaw cycles when snow is on the roof and promotes ice damming.
Moisture gonna rot all that out? I wouldn’t blink twice if the overhangs were level on the underside, but as these are not I would worry about rot. Moisture/humidity can come from inside the house as easily as from the outside.
Seriously the biggest airtight method update in a while, that last video with that dude had me pumped for what is to come. We have all the parts, now how can we make it best? It just keeps getting better. Love it.
Yeah, I’m excited about trying this. Seems like there were better methods for cold climates but I was not very satisfied with with a continuous air barrier when doing a conditioned attic. I think this will work well.
Which video?
@@SgtAlPowellLAPD th-cam.com/video/fjwjeoLi6X0/w-d-xo.html
Scott's idea is honestly the biggest change for airsealing in construction I've seen. He took the perfect wall that is a niche for great framers and made it attainable for a normal framing crew. I can't wait to try this!
Scott's idea create cavity which cannot dry outside or inside. Thru the open cell foam moisture can easily travel to the cavity and there will condensate especially at winter.
Matt's solution is much more bether.
Blake, I think you make an important point here - for framers whose primary focus is on quality work and who are comfortable going outside textbook framing methods, the original ‘Potato Head’ style of Monopoly framing is better, as it has fewer failure points and is less finicky to execute. It also naturally accommodates modern-style structures which might feature a flush eaves (no overhangs). That said, the airtight integrated soffit shown by Scott is of course better than a conventional leaky one, IF those are the only two options. I would see Scott’s method as a handy interim band-aid to be used only while conventional framers get to grips with more high-performance details - I think that should be a priority in the industry, and requires only relatively minor adjustments to current practice.
@@jakubsebor4756 I think they're both using closed cell spray foam, because they talk about the spray foam being used also as an air barrier in the video with Scott and in this one (which would not apply to open cell). But yeah, point taken, in that (1) we should be very clear when talking about spray foam on if we're talking about close cell or open cell, and (2) it is important to get the spray foam all the way to the base of the cavity and fill it completely -- no voids where trapped air can provide condensate during winter months.
5:15 They are in Texas so winter isn't that much of a concern though. Open cell does create an air barrier but it is not a vapor barrier.
@@jakubsebor4756 Matt's solution or his home - he did not diffuse properly at the ridge and he used closed cell on the roof. This fellow, needs to diffuse and your dry outside or inside comment is extremely relevant on both solutions. Matt has created a dumpster fire on air tightness, in my mind, because of his need for sponsorship. He cant provide objective and or accurate design considerations. People need to be careful on You Tube.
I really like this cost saving method of air sealing and will definitely use it when I build my dream home. The cost of home construction has skyrocketed in recent years, but those of us who aren't stinking rich still want a high quality, air tight, water tight home that will stand the test of time. Please keep these building science approved cost saving tips coming!
Amen to that! Scott is really conscientious about costs and I've started following him wherever I could. I also found him being interviewed by Corbett Lunsford on his TH-cam channel.
Cheers, Eric
Scott True's idea seems like one of those revolutionary ideas that change market perspectives.
Wow this video came at such a perfect time for me. I had already thought of doing this but there's something about seeing Matt Risingers stamp of approval on an idea!
Working on first new construction framing job, it’s possible from all of the knowledge you have shared over the past few years. Thank you so much for what you do Matt, our industry needs more instruction on best practices.
Would be awesome to see a blower door test on this house once windows are in(or any house built with this method).
I think he did a comparison video before
Think hes doing one
This definitely looks like the simpler way to go. I do have a few questions. Is it better to go wall sheathing first and then the underside of the overhang, or the other way around? And is there an easier way to address that intersection than to caulk/liquid flash that seam? Should the Zip-R panels be mitered? Do you do Zip-R over the facia board (or in lieu of)?
It would be great to have a vid that really steps through the process with illustrations showing construction details.
While this method is a great advance for air sealing a home with a conditioned attic, for those people who plan to build a home with an unconditioned, vented attic there is an even simpler method to air seal the home - build a structural attic floor, run the OSB on top of the attic floor joists and seal the edges and seams with sealant and tape. Then place your raised heel trusses on top of this attic floor "deck" (your truss installers will love being able to walk around on this flat deck).
Now your conditioned living space is completely separated from your unconditioned attic space and as a bonus all your pot lights and HVAC ducts can run through the attic floor system (which is within the conditioned space).
I am currently doing a project with this exact setup. Doing 2" polyiso on the roof as well.
Finally a short video that isn't a sponsored advertisement. This is what got me watching in the first place
Thanks for bringing this. Best part is appreciating others idea and implementing it
Great tips, Matt. I love the continuous improvement. Hopefully this is a detail that more track home builders will implement.
Matt is right about closed or open cell for air sealing. I did a total gut remodel of an end townhouse. I wanted to have a conditioned attic space so i blocked all the spaces in the soffit for the closed cell spray foam contractor. After the spray foam the attic looked great. Because i was doing most of the work myself it was a slow build and the drywall was not install for a few months. The broad side of the townhouse sits on the open bay of a barrier island in South Jersey. In the winter the wind can blow unobstructed off the bay at 30 mph. The house was generally comfortable through the winter even without heat when the wind wasn't blowing. One of those winter days during the build with the wind cranking I walked into the corner bedroom and it felt like someone opened a window. there was a void in the spray foam in that corner of the roof. I don't blame the foam contractor as that corner of the attic is very tight and hard to reach. I used can foam to fill and found several much smaller leaks using the cold 30 mph wind as my cheap blower door. if the job was being done by a general contractor it is a good chance it would have never been corrected and i would be wondering why the master bedroom was so cold.
That's an install issue not a spray foam issue. Spray foam is a great air barrier.
I would think that the inside corner between the wall and the soffit, that is being caulked will have consistency problems and might fail to be airtight. Tape over a long run has pretty consistent airtightness, but caulking up under that corner is awkward for the laborer so they might rush or not be able to see how well they are applying, and caulk doesn't do a good job of bridging more than small separations.
A blower door test would be great to see.
I would love to see a video on how to get a conditioned attic space on a retro fit house. One where all the drywall is in. Is that possible. Or some steps to take when putting a new roof on an old house.
Your biggest issue is how you're going to vent the roof assembly if you do a conditioned attic. With that in mind I think Matt's other method of adding rafter tails on afterwards would allow you to do that better.
@@danielbuckner2167 I thought the whole idea on a conditioned attic was not to vent the roof? Maybe I am not understanding correctly?
At the soffit level you are almost creating a sips panel with the sandwich, hats off to everyone In the community for making improvements and small steps to make a better envelope
We did Monopoly framing on our Off Grid home and although it worked I don't plan to do it again. In the future I plan to slip the sheathing up into the soffit space, notching around the trusses (doesn't take long) and then liquid flashing the seams (again, doesn't take that long). Then spray foam and done. I think this will name a much strong overhang vs trying to attach it to the side of the housem. Videos on my channel of the build.
With the green zip and gable roof, it actually looks a lot like a monopoly house!
Great video on airtightness on a budget. Great for those who don't have the cost+ money to build a dream home.
I'm all about the tight budget. I need/ want three foot overhangs or bigger. Thanks.
FYI... I've started wrapping the fascia with Ice and Water shield, always gets trimmed after. I tie it into the roof Ice & water shield. Little cost for extra water protection. I got tired of seeing rotten rafter tails.
This may be a weird question. Is there a spray on caulk? Faster and easier when using rafters over porches or long overhangs on trusses. Would a spray on basement waterproofing work? I'm thinking something like "Flex Seal". Thoughts?
This is what the build show is all about, good stuff!
Probably a huge labor savings in just sheeting in the standard truss or hand-cut rafters versus monopoly framing and adding on overhangs after the fact.. I think a good evolution, but a bit more material and a different look when finished, open tails versus sheeted in eaves. Nice evolution and choices in either case, thanks Matt.
Matt,
I am so thankful to you and Scott! This is a brilliant detail using Zip Sheathing.
NOW... IF you were to do this again (budget & energy performance in mind), would you use the "InSoFast" as your EXTERIOR insulation? 😜
This is exciting!
Cheers, Eric
Very nice.
It's so funny looking at the old style of how under the house and the roof / attic being open. This is how our current house is and I can't wait to buy some land and build a new house using a lot of the great tips found on this channel and others.
Thanks Matt!
I'm slightly lost on the cost savings on this method vs monopoly. There seems to be more joints to tape or caulk. It does seem to save an entire layer of roof sheathing, though.
With this method, could the soffit overhangs not be sealed on the underside of the roof sheathing without the additional sheathing under the soffit? Or is the concern the under side of the roof sheathing (that extends past the floor footprint) should not be exposed to outside air? Would moisture wick up and down, inside and out?
There's a lot going on here, would love some more information on the thought process.
I also wonder if there's another option to do monopoly, but instead of nailing the overhands on top of the roof deck they could be nailed onto the outside walls and still create the overhang. Imagine a triangular piece of framing with L-brackets that screws into the outside wall, matches roof pitch, and matches height of the roof after adding sheathing on top, and tape the joint from the roof to the overhang. These extensions could be built assembly-line style. The overhang part of the roof sheathing would have the back exposed to outside air, but the interior would still be sealed at the corner joint, and sealed on top to the roof with tape.
The whole point of the “perfect wall” and “perfect roof” system was to bring the insulation to the outside of the frame for simplicity. I’m lost on how this is in any way related when they skip having the empty cavity and spray foam anyway. He’s addicted to that stuff and now we no longer are “on a budget”.
Great job integrating new approaches--we are always learning something new.
I just had my trusses built to original perfect wall with a 2x12 rim joist around the roof trusses. That results in a super easy to frame perfect wall roof. I then run structural screws through the perfect wall at an upwards angle to attach eaves which are generally made from 2' cut-offs of scrap.
Not only are my labor costs actually lower overall, but I have less waste, and I don't create a complex conditioned space.
Any chance you could email me pictures of what you did?
@@kaiseranonymous i0.wp.com/www.energyvanguard.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/raised-heel-truss-american-plywood-association.jpg?fit=800%2C600&ssl=1
Try that with a 2x12 on top of the wall around the perimeter.
Except like, my top chords are truncated factory to the outside edge of the wall.
Holy cow, a video about actual building concepts and not a blatant product placement! Well done!
Fair
Great solution!, I'm currently building my own house, taking a lot of useful info from you're experience and BSC community, I was wondering how the overhung solution depicted here will support exterior insulation using ventilated roof. Can you elaborate please?
Matt, you have all these solutions for problems few builders considered, my question to you is why is your way better? Do you have historical data to back your recommendations and why hasn't your team installed sensors to monitor moisture infiltration in critical pron areas if what you preach is solid. A lot of us won't be around 100 years to dispute the findings but knowing sensor monitor vital signs of a dwelling may back you clam for years.
Like that your on top of new building ideas but history tells us . . .some things just don't work well. Long time fan just my thoughts. . .
This is a really great technique.
Nice alternative. Great budget work around. Show is more after progress is made in the budget friendly alts. Would like to see those.
Any follow-up on the hemp bale building down south?I
Instead of using the bird blocking on rafters that are continuous from the roof for the covered porch, why not do this small section with your "monopoly framing" and use a ledger board for tying in the porch rafters; like is done with balloon framing for interior floors or adding a deck. That seems like less labor and material to me.
- this Idea was in my head too - basically double rafter over the external insulation for roof airgap - with eave / escutcheon ledgered off the external insulation )or partly suspended fron the "over rafter"/1.5 inch furring. using strappping...
NB, not a builder so I don't know what is impossible yet.
Matt, why not use green glue or a similar product sprayed through an airless on those bird blocks? It can also be used at seams in the framing where foam or anything else can't fit but air gets through.
Love it! I think I'll steal this when I build my house.
Awesome stuff Matt! 😃👍🏻👊🏻
Did the framer cut a BEVEL on both the soffit and roof Zip where it meets that sub-fascia? Or just tape over the straight cuts?
Nice. Matt do you think this method can be applied to and old house already build. Do you think it will be possible without redoing the roof.
many thanks, it is a very important detail!!!
How do we find builders in our area that subscribe to this type of building. Does Matt have a ongoing list of builders or network. That would be awesome!
can anyone share a link (the best link) on this monopoly framing? I am particularly interested in all aspects of the perfect wall method as well.
And yes, I am an older generation builder and I have always had to deal with this intersection using various techniques going back to the mid 1970's. The advancement in this build design is outstanding. As a very neutral and limited knowledge observer, I kind of am in favor of the monopoly framing or perfect wall technique more. I tend to favor the full reframing technique, but will have to look at videos more closely and the details needed. It just seems to limit your overhang design using the "Scott method." But this is better than what most are doing now. Keep up the good work toward building the perfect house as well.
Matt, you talk about building "100-year houses" with Zip system, but Huber guarantees the adhesive on their flashing tape for only 30 years. Does that mean that seams will start to open in year 31? I guess we'll have to wait and see, but it in the meantime I'm having trouble squaring your claims against theirs.
Matt, I’ve been watching you for years, your in Texas and always seal to the exterior. I’m in Alaska so I have to do it the opposite way, got any ideas, thanks
I'm trying to do the math on the closed cell spray foam cost to fill those cavities vs just paying for the labor and diligence to do blocking and air sealing. Seems like each soffit is 14" x 6" x 24", which I think costs $20-30 in spray foam. I imagine someone could add blocking and seal a soffit up in ~30 minutes. Of course, sufficiently cheap labor to meet that pricing probably also means they don't do the blocking and sealing diligence that will produce a comparable outcome.
Anyone have any other ideas or comparisons that should be made?
Hi Matt, can the perfect wall system be applied to a post-frame barndominium-style home? My thought is to maximize performance and affordability per sq. ft. with minimal regard to aesthetics or tradition.
It's been done. The price goes way up. This stuff is $35 a sheet.
Check out Texas Best Construction here on TH-cam. Josh builds barndominiums here in Texas with Zip sheathing.
th-cam.com/video/-s1lCxO_1Ak/w-d-xo.html
with a barn, you could do the "perfect wall/roof" inside the steel rainscreen... OR just put up continuous poly iso or xps.. then frame/finish the interior.
You could do exterior insulation with a solid insulation board product, but I doubt that the price/performance ratio would stand up compared to insulating inside the steel exterior skin. Even with working around the thermal bridging for the posts. The products involved are just too expensive for the quantities needed.
Instead I would focus on air-tightness and over-insulating (by conventional standards) using more traditional pole barn construction techniques. Even if you have to box frame around the posts to eliminate thermal bridging.
Doing exterior insulation also won't translate well if you have a partially-insulated building, which is one of the big appeals of pole barn construction: you can have an affordable and very large attached garage that is less insulated than the residence. That's harder to manage with exterior insulation since you have to transition.
Id love to know your peak kwh usage for a month in your house Matt. I have 5 kids in Houston and am curious how much it all pays off
The video was brilliant.😘
How would you get 10” of open cell on the roof? It looks like a lot smaller cavity between trusses.
What is the load bearing capacity of the engineered lumber he used on his house? Or even better, how far is it safe to go out with a 60psf snow load 16 oc?
Would it make sense to make thicker walls? Better insulation mean smaller hvac load.
I would love to see a blower door test BEFORE the spray foam in the ceiling (like after some down near the soffits). How is this a cost savings if you’re going to fill the whole thing with spray foam anyway? The whole point of putting the insulation on the outside in the “perfect” system is because it’s just not very easy to get it in the cavity (and expensive). Really at a loss how it’s a tight budget if they are using all the XPS and Spray foam too??
Heck ya Matt
Great job brother
Why not just tape OSB and then use building paper and EPS foam? Wouldn’t that more or less be the same thing? Yes you have to go around the building a couple extra times, but paper and exterior foam goes fast and is affordable.
Question on the lvl’s do the letters have to be up right, or does it matter if they are upside down?
Is zip really more airtight than taped osb?
Does zip system have an option for composite ? I’m trying to build without wood.
How much cheaper is this method vs true monopoly framing, and what, if any, performance or structural loss/gain would be expected?
I suggest 2” of closed cell on roof underlayment and then you can add open cell. Much better.
To avoid the lapped rafters for the deck roof resulting in bird blocking, couldn't you just terminate the interior rafters into a double rim board (a single might be fine), wrap the taped zip sheathing system from the roof down the side of the exterior down to the rough opening for the slider doors, then attach a ledger board on the outside of the zip system to the doubled rim joist with carriage bolts which would be used to hang the porch roof joists? Then you have an uninterrupted exterior envelope air barrier with the deck roof attached onto the outside of this envelope rather than penetrating it? It's not a cantilevered roof and has a perimeter structure to hold the end of the roof anyway. It would be like building an angled deck but one without a live load calc to hold people.
How about the rain screen, with this system you cannot have a continuous air flow from the bottom of the siding to the ridge of the roof?
Good point. How do you allow air flow from the wall to escape?
Maybe Matt can do a follow up video or respond. Good questions I am wondering the same thing.
Typically wall rainscreen is separated from the vented roof deck, ostensibly to prevent fire migration through the structure.
Lots of variations are possible.
We definitely need a blower door test on this house after the doors and windows are in.
Grab a small Froth Pack of closed cell foam from IDI and spray the bird blocking at your porch. Faster sometimes equals cheaper.
How would you do a rain screen in this case, if not venting into a vented soffit?
Sorry but what is the point of filling the rafter-tail cavity with spray foam? It seems like a waste of material.
I'm not loving the diaphragm connection between the roof deck and the walls without blocking. You have your rafters in the "rollover" condition to transfer those forces. I thought code requires blocking for that reason. Also I'm wondering why there isn't strapping or hurricane ties on any of the truss or rafters maybe I'm missing that. Need to have a load path for roof uplift forces.
Brilliant
Please do a blower door test!
Hi Matt. It is my understanding that roof sheathing needs to be vented on the underside to maintain shingle warrenty. Additionally you spray foam the underside of the roof sheathing. How do you or don't you handle this? Metal roofing?
That’s an extremely common misconception. Unvented attic assemblies have been used for decades without any degradation of shingle life whatsoever. If you want to check out the research for yourself google “Florida solar commission shingle life study”
@@buildshow So you just ignore the fact that the singles are no longer covered by the warrant? I agree that ventilation isn't required from a building science perspective, but it still seems dangerous for liability. I guess Single manufacture warranties are blatantly promoting antiquated building practices.
@@buildshow Matt, I love your youtube channel, using the best of high performance building techniques.
I'm a roofing contractor and general contractor. I want to build my personal home using the monopoly framing method ERV, etc..
How do you handle venting the attic and crawl space when completely sealing all aspects of the home?
This is Texas anyway. No one uses shingle warranties. Everyone who gets their roof replaced gets it through insurance because a hail storm came onto an aged roof. Also, that rule only holds for colder zones.
Hi Matt. I'm planning a house in Canada and want my builder to consider using the Zip system, but he says its 30% more expensive than conventional sheathing and he's not convinced there will be labor savings. Do you have anything I can show him ? Love your channel.
Why do you think it will be cheaper?
It most likely won't be cheaper than basic sheathing and insulation as there will be a crew "learning curve", but if you want it just tell him how it is, your build your wallet - unless you are getting a project house built then the variation cost will kill the budget most likely. (source the material independently and have the team install it - possibly these are areas when owner builder/self managed project, is better than having a prime contractor, though there are always pitfalls)
I saw on the Zip Sheathing that it was a "30 year system". That concerns me since a house is obviously good for much longer and sheathing isn's something that's exactly easy to replace. What can be expected beyond 30 years?
With my THOW I'm having to think about weight reduction as well. So instead of sheathing the soffit, I'm doing this same detail but by taping delta vent S into place.
So, will he allow for diffusion at the ridge?
i got major daylight on sistered rafters on that patio or eves ............major air leaks when the studs dry , some roll a little and you see daylight
Whenever I approach builders with these super airtight systems, they typically dismiss it. They claim it may look good for a door blower test but over the long term the house doesn’t breath well. Maybe it’s more of a concern because we’re in the NW? Any thoughts on that line of thinking?
It does need dehumidification, and a ERV to bring in fresh air. More concern is needed for make-up air for vents over the stove. If you have a leaky house, make-up air isn’t as much of a concern. It’s a lot easier building a house without having to do a proper HVAC design, but it will be less comfortable and have higher indoor particulates, and more expensive to operate. Change is hard, and those builders aren’t ready for change.
What about retrofitting the zip system to an older home?
I would love to see the visconn product from 475 supply applied up those bird blocks on the porch. It would be so much faster than caulking, and the labor savings would wash out any labor increase.
I would like to see that also.
How is continuous insulation achieved using this method?
Does this outside airtight system work in the colder climates like Canada where I see most effort is put to making the inside airtight and then Tyvek type outside ?
You will add poly to the interior side of the wall in Canada, because you heat in the winter. And if you put closed or open cell foam on the outside - you trap moisture and rot your wall.
how does the rain screen work?
I like the monopoly house framing name
Not gonna lie; I wish this info had come out before I started building my own house a year ago.
The monopoly framing was difficult to mimic using only TH-cam videos 😂
Do you match the R rating inside to the outside on the roof?
Matt - for Christmas get those framers a milwaukee m12 caulk gun with sausage tube attachment! With how much yall caulk it will increase efficiency and save their hands/forearms!
yep save the tennis elbow for sports instead.
This seems like a much better way to build if you want overhangs. Ripping LVLs seems like way too much work in comparison. I'm going to try this method soon on the office shed I'm designing for my brother-in-law.
How could I make this work with a traditional block wall and truss?
Matt, why in traditional homes do the roofs need airflow versus in a monopoly home we eliminate airflow all together? Thank you.
Homes have moisture (cooking/showering ) if you seal it completely you need to condition the air / keep moisture in check with airco or air exchange system. If you vent the roof the moisture in your house can transfer out to the attic and to the outside.
Matt won't answer your fundamental question - because he can't answer it. This guy is a salesman and people have to stop and smell the attic rot.
@@davidbruce5377 @Susy Easterly the simple answer is, if you are building a low air leakage house, you have to have a controlled ventilation system. In this case the attic is conditioned space and wouldn’t have any rot issues. It’s the same air as the house.
@@theleiteone83 Yes, but you have to allow for diffusion at the ridge and that requires, leaving the ridge free of polyiso, closed or open cell. Put Comfortboard up there, but for all reasons, don't put any foam. I didn't here anyone mention the ridge in this video and if folks want to learn from other builders, they need all relevant information. The ridge in my opinion, is where the moisture goes. All the mech venting in the world, will not change that completely.
I see some dumb answers above so I will try to make it clear. In the Monopoly house Matt's built for himself it is sealed on all sides but the roof is not integrated into that structure and there is a venting system between that structure and the roof assembly. Because moisture in the house is taken up by the HVAC system the conditioned attic being included doesn't have moisture problems and the moisture Ingress from the roof assembly is removed by the venting system between the Monopoly house barrier and the roof assembly.
I like it. But in a cold climate there still needs to be outside insulation.
No venting at the roof?
I’ve seen arm pit stains on buildings without proper venting.
How are soffit vents implemented using this technique?
No soffit vents, that defeats the entire purpose. This is not a vented attic or roof system, the venting happens on the 2nd roof layer above.
What does bomber mean? He's always saying that. Or is it balmer?
Fantastic.
An 💥explosively💥 great idea.
Kick ass
Vapor pressure goes from inside to out so a Zipwall (perm rating 16) will act as a vapor barrier and condensation will occur. Walls in cold climate must be able to dry from the outside.
Opposite of southern and southeastern homes.
Are you saying Zipwall is unusable in cold climates? Why would there be vapor pressure if there's no air movement through the wall? If you used zip-r there's probably no chance of condensation?
@@steelddd Zipwall system need a 2 inch spray foam between studs (you can't have vapor barriers on both side), water vapor should never reach it's dew point.
I noticed that European building techniques have everything outside breathable insulation for quick drying and their sheathing+wrb/ab is on the inside. I wonder how their system compares to ours.
The walls in Northern European building are like this:
1) There's wood fiber based breathable but wind proof sheeting behind the cladding (you can leave this out if you're really skimping though),
2) rock wool or other breathable wool insulation within the structure of the wall,
3) inside there's an air/moisture barrier, which can be either basically a very thin plastic wrap, or thicker closed cell plastic sheets taped up to act as both extra insulation and the air/moisture barrier.
4) Inside of that will be drywall, wood paneling or whatever
The reason for this probably is that for the longest part of the year in Northern Europe, outside air will be colder than inside air, so if you did what Matt does here, water would condense at the inside face of the Zip sheeting and run into your framing and insulation, as the Zip sheets can be at way below freezing temperatures. When the moisture barrier is right behind the drywall, the insulation is kept very dry by the freezing outside air.
The majority of UK houses are quite old so it's either solid brick walls or cavity block & brick - both moisture permeable. Solid walls are terrible insulators so now retrofit external insulation is being fitted, often closed cell foam so might be building up a moisture problem in future...
Adding comments here is fruitless -- Matt never replies!
But what about up north? How does this apply up here?
Wondering the same…. Especially in attic spaces that have fireplace flue penetration that has a tendency to warm the attic space. Having soffit and ridge venting in the winter serves to keep this space cool enough to prevent freeze and thaw cycles when snow is on the roof and promotes ice damming.
How do you vent the roof??
You float it over the zipwall deck. The attic is not vented.
Good improper use of an a frame ladder
Moisture gonna rot all that out?
I wouldn’t blink twice if the overhangs were level on the underside, but as these are not I would worry about rot.
Moisture/humidity can come from inside the house as easily as from the outside.
I would worry about formaldehyde forming in the eves with that much spray foam if sprayed all at once.
He didn’t say it was going to all go in at once