The word order in “De brief die ik gekregen heb” versus “De brief die ik heb gekregen” is not always relevant, but it allows a speaker to add a subtle stress difference. The former can be used to indicate that it was me who received the letter. the latter to stress that I _received_ the letter (as opposed to having _sent_ one for example). Besides the subtle difference in meaning, there is a regional difference. Regions closer to Germany will more often use “gekregen heb” and regions closer to the UK will more often use “heb gekregen”. Wrt “herhalen” (loooooong A btw, otherwise people will hear “hallen”): this word has a cognate in other languages: in German it is wiederholen, in Danish gentage. All words use the verb “to take” with a prefix that indicates repetition: her-, wieder-, (i)gen- all (roughly) mean “again”. Even the English verb _to repeat_ has the same roots, albeit from Latin: re-petere, to try to obtain/get again Oh, and Frisian has never been a dialect. It is a language of its own. It has its own grammar, vocabulary, native speakers, centuries of history, early medieval codices. Friesland as a “sovereign” regin existed way before the country The Netherlands existed, and even though modern Frisian is somewhat of a synthetic language, and many Frisians speak Dutch with a Frisian “twist”, it really is a language. Like Catalan is one, or Gaelic.
The Frisians as a people had altercations with the Romans (see Tacitus) well before Nederland was even thought of. A series of forts was built by the Romans along the Rhine, maybe even at Trajectum!
As far as I know, Frisian was never considered a dialect of Dutch because it has always had a separate identity and history. It is in fact more closely related to English than Dutch. It received official status as a language next to Dutch in 1956. Some of the sound changes that affected English and Frisian also affected Dutch, albeit to a lesser degree and a big part of the dialect continuum from the regions more upriver versus the regions closer to the coast has to do with those influences. Zeeuws in particular was influenced by these changes more pronouncedly than standard Dutch. But even the dialects in the Randstad have seen some of these influences. For instance, in standard Dutch, 'kunnen' has the first and third person forms 'kan'. However, in many Randstad dialects you will hear it pronounced as 'ken', which not so coincidentally is also the firs person form of 'kennen'. Children in school are derided for not using the proper form and not 'knowing' the difference between 'kennen' and 'kunnen', when in fact, as far as I now, this is a prime example of such a sound change. Still, it is good to see that dialectal differences are no longer seen as 'defects' in the Netherlands. I myself cherish all those variations and evolutions. Dutch is still evolving, which sometimes is a source of frustration for me. For instance, 'hun' is NOT the subjective form of the third person plural personal pronoun! 'Die' is a demonstrative pronoun in Dutch, not an article! Ok I'll stop now ;-). With regards to the 'ui' sound in Dutch, you're pronunciation of it is excellent. I once explained it to a British colleague who was struggling to learn (a very small bit of) Dutch by having this person say 'huis' the way a Scotsman would pronounce it. From that moment on, the 'ui' sound was no longer a struggle. It was not spot-on, but it came close enough.
My personal pet peeve of recent changes/mistakes that are becoming more widespread and accepted is people using "als" and "dan" interchangeable or reversed (e.g. "ik ben groter als jij" "Suriname is vier keer zo groot dan Nederland")
@@nienke7713 Many dialects only have the one; als. So you're asking people to make a distinction between words that for them aren't distinct at all. The same thing happens to people if they speak a foreign language that has two words for something that the person's native language only has one for. In Dutch for example, we have leren, we use it to say "Ik leer nu Engels" and to say "Mijn leraar leert mij nu Duits aan." In English this is learn and teach, and a lot, and I mean A LOT of Dutch people say learn when they mean teach. Same thing with als and dan.
@@AnnekeOosterink I just said it's a pet peeve of mine, it's something that annoys me, it sounds wrong and as much as I understand the reasons, that doesn't change. The worst part is actually that when I hear/see that, I unconsciously tend to judge the people using it as being less intelligent, and I really need to consciously remind myself that that's neither fair nor accurate. I don't want to judge people like that, but it still happens and it takes effort to overcome that. I also get annoyed when Dutch speakers use "learn" when they mean "teach", but there I am unconsciously a bit more forgiving, I think, because I know they're not native speakers; whereas people speaking a dialect of Dutch do register in my brain as native speakers of Dutch, even though they may not actually be native speakers of Standard Dutch but rather native speakers of their dialect of Dutch (although to be fair, schools are supposed to teach them Standard Dutch, so they should have been taught the right way in Standard Dutch from a fairly early age; I learned English as a second language at a bilingual secondary school and now am fluent in English and frequently think in English as well, so if the school is doing a good job, then they should be able to achieve similar results with teaching kids Standard Dutch besides their native dialect).
That's what we wanted the world to think, Damouze. Sort of a deescalation move. Sort of a civilian tranquilizer, as it were. Of course Frisian is not a language. The idea alone, hahahah... Ask Wiegel, he knows.
(West-)Frisian was indeed never considered a dialect of Dutch due to its different origin, the creation of a separate standard language, and indeed, its official status in the country. However, Frisian was and still is heavily influenced by Dutch, previously Hollandic dialects and currently Standard Dutch. In fact, it wouldn't be odd to argue that Frisian has become a Low Franconian language variety. As a result of these influences, Frisian and Dutch are to very large extents intelligible. "It Nederlânsk is de offisjele taal fan 'e ûnôfhinklike lannen Nederlân, Belgje en Suriname en fan 'e autonome lannen Arûba, Kurasau en Sint-Marten. Yn Belgje dielt it de offisjele status mei it Frânsk en it Dútsk; op Arûba en Kurasau mei it Papiamintsk en op Sint-Marten mei it Ingelsk." This sentence for example is fully comprehensible to Dutch speakers. Grammatical structures and the word order are also identical and the spelling feels familiar. But then... what are the criteria for a vernacular to be called a language?
An American friend of mine mentioned that the Dutch long A was pretty hard for her as wel. Confirmed by me hearing your pronounciation of "halen" as "hallen" untill you spelled it out on screen. :)
As someone already mentioned: your pronunciation of our 'ui' is excellent. And when you started talking about the verbs, I was reminded of the sentence our English teacher in middle school - discussing the number of verb forms in a sentence - wrote a Dutch example on the blackboard after telling a story: somebody was laughed at when he told he was once sitting at a campfire when he was vistited by a bear and ran for it. He answered: "Ik zou jou wel eens hebben willen zien blijven zitten kijken." How's that for a logical sentence with a large number of verbforms.
Isn't the, "ui" sound similar to rounding of the mouth and saying, "ei"? I think saying, "ei" with the mouth rounded should sound like, "ui." I think that's how I was told when I went to Belgium as a student from America. The, "uu" is pronounced as, "ie" with the mouth rounded.
@@evanherk Those go next to last? It has been many years, I just have a difficult time figuring out the main verb sometimes. I know the order is different than usual in German, but I couldn't remember which one had exceptions.
@@Snowshowslow initially I thought the same. Yet “halen” and so getting something and “herhalen” getting something again grow into the Dutch using it later on for other purposes. As we are traders you can imagine it growing from “Een bestelling herhalen” repeating a order, into “wilt u de bestelling herhalen?” De you like to repeat that order? The origin of repeat doesn’t have anything to do with peat btw 😋 I just looked it up and apparently it comes from Latin/France re-petere (Latin: re-seak) -> repeter (old French) -> repeat Edit: I just same Hans C said the same thing a bit earlier 😉
@@SatumangoTheGreat I was thinking is "weg" in weghalen a prefix? Most of the prefix indicate a direction/location. And how about "naar je toe halen", is that also a prefix?
Hi, native speaker here. In my opinion you're pronunciation of the UI sound is quite flawless in this video. Well done! Your pronunciation of halen could be improved though. The A in halen is long like the AA in kaal. You pronounced it like hallen, the plural of hal (English: hall). I think the long A sound might also be absent in the English language.
Interesting to notice how well you pronunce our 'ui' and 'g' sounds that understandably must be quite difficult for native English speakers but on the under hand have difficulties with the long 'a', which to me seems to be much easier.
I live near Kijkduin. Given that both (dutch) _ij_ and _ui_ vowels are 'difficult' for many foreigners, it might be a better lithmus test for 'dutchness' than the more famous 'Scheveningen', located a few kms to the north (used during WW2 to find out whether someone was German or not).
Yes, the 'ij' and 'ui' sound are difficult for foreigners, apparently. My British mother (from Wales actually.... talk about difficult languages....) struggled with this all her life, although she had already spent more time here than in the UK. She pronounced 'Kijkduin' (where we lived) as 'cake-down'. And 'vloer' sounded more like her native 'floor'. Nice subject, thanks.
IJ should not be that dificult for English speakers as it is similar to I or EYE in English. In Dutch we got the lange IJ (long IJ) and the korte EI (short EI), both are prenounced the same.
Hey Eva, About Frisian being a language. Friesland has been a big country with its own language (off course frisian). When Friesland became a part of the Netherlands it was expected that people we gonna switch to Dutch. People didn't but it was allowed. Until a lawsuit. A Milk company wanted that a Frisian farmer sign the milk in Dutch and not in Frisian they gave him a ticket. A man from Heerenveen got a different ticket and wanted to explain in Frisian but wasnt a allowed. This created massive riots called Kneppelfreed. Due to that moment Frisian got it's recognition in the Netherlands.
I think the funny thing with "ui" is, when you pronounce it "ou", it's very often another word, which makes it funny/confusing. Trui -> trouw, buiten -> bouten, lui -> lauw...
One of the first things I noticed when I started making Dutch friends is the huge variety of sounds their language has. They have different “r” sounds, very varied accents and the ability to pronounce pretty much anything in other languages extremely well.
Yes we have surprisingly many dialects for such a small country. In fact most of us can hear, by way of the accent a person uses, which part of the country someone comes from.
Try the dialects in Groningen, they are as different from Dutch as Limburgs is. And what is spoken in West Groningen is closer to Frisian while Oost-Gronings can be understood pretty well by dialect speakers just across the German border
Some Dutch regions have many dialects. Traveling between towns was relatively hard: swamps or open water. Towns had different trading partners all over Europe (f.i. one more with England and the next with Scandinavia), which lead to language differences, different traditional clothing, and incompatible forks of the protestant church. Although those towns are now always connected by roads, these communities have not disappeared (although shrunk). About 3% of the Dutch population.
Yeah, you can stil see there was sea between where I live in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen and Ghent. You actually need to circle anticlockwise via the east and Brughes to Ghent to follow how the accent relates, which spread to the south of middle Zeeuws-Vlaanderen. Hence you travel 2 km through the polder and suddenly there's a huge accent change. Probably how I got interested in language. Mind you, Van Dale of the dictionary was born in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen as well.
@@FrankHeuvelman..... ik woon in landgraaf...dat zijn 3 dorpen die aan elkaar gegroeid zijn.. dus sowieso al 3 dialecten...en in het dorp waarin ik woon ligt de wijk waubach met daarin de groenstraat en zelfs tussen woabichs en grunsjtroats hoor je verschil... waarmee ik dus wil zeggen dat het niet overdreven is,althans voor limburgse dialecten.
It’s so great how you are doing this, it puts a smile on my face! You sound so great while speaking Dutch. I heard you talking many times in dutch and you really nailed it! Keep on doing what you do!!
I'm not claiming every prefix makes sense, but in "afspreken" it does. "Spreken" does not refer to what you are going to do but what you did, you spoke about meeting up, and 'af' means you closed the discussion. So you speak and you come to an agreement, about a date to meet up, or anything else. To understand and memorize Dutch prefixes like that better you might try to approach it a bit more abstract. The tricky thing with Dutch prefixes like af, op, uit, be and ver is that they have different meanings that might nontheless interact and depend on the way it's pronounced, with often only slight differences. This pronunciation can also turn a neutral meaning of the prefix into a rude comment. "Afwerken" is a good thing when making furniture, as in finishing. But with the slightest different tone it expresses a very negativie attitude towards what had to be done. In the word "afgang" the negative association of 'af' as in downward has replaced the original meaning. Technically is just the act of walking off stage after a performance, which tends to be physically downward as well and not just 'af' as in finishing, but has come to mean the embarassement of bad performance on stage. It even got the meaning of an embarrasing performance itself.
There is no rationale to prefixes and prep + verb combinations: they're arbitrary. You need to learn them by heart. That sucks, but there is no other way, unfortunately
Sometimes you can add a prefix to a word, seemingly inverting the meaning, yet both options have the same meaning. Like "guur" and "onguur", which both mean dodgy.
1> I new some native english speaker who could only pronounce the “ui” in the word “stofzuiger” ( hover ). 2> when I moved from Zeist to Haarlem (70km) I had to get use to the difference of interpretation of the word “link” . In Zeist-“dialect” it was dangerous/stupid in Harlem it was new/exciting….(50 years ago). 3> As a child we played with emphesising and how it changed the meanig of what you say. Favoriete was “Ik moet nodig naar de WC. IK moet nodig naar de wc. I have to go to the loo. ( not someone else ) Ik MOET nodig naar de wc. I really have to go to the loo. Ik moet NODIG naar de wc. I desperately need go tot the loo. Ik moet nodig NAAR de wc. I have to go towarts the loo. ( not away from it ) Ik moet nodig naar DE wc. I have to go the the very special toilet. ( not a random one) Ik moet nodig naar de WC. I have to go to the place known as “wc”. ( not to the kitchen. The sentence is exactly the same only the emphesising differ. Fun to play with as child. Can you do that in english as well? For a lot of sentences not for just a few?
As a native Norwegian speaker from the west coast, I have both the "ui" sound (which we write "au", but also "eu" in names like "Europa") and a version of the phlegmy throaty sound (that's how I pronounce the letter "r"), or at least close enough as makes no practical difference. I also use V2 word-order, but unlike Dutch I will also use V2 in subordinate sentences, so no SOV for me (though you can get away with it in poetry). Unlike Dutch I don't get a choice as to word order as in the example "de brief die ik heb gekregen", it has to be that one -- the German-style order would be _verboten_ -- "brevet som jeg har mottatt" or "brevet som eg har motteke" (depending on which written standard of the language is in use). We also have the exact same situation with prefixes. The examples also transfer very well: "Tale" is a very formal word meaning "speak", while "tiltale" means "address" (also "indict(ment)" in law), while "avtale" means "agree" or "appointment" (as for meeting up with someone). Finally, the dialect situation sounds really similar. In our case, the more distant dialects (compared to the more widely used ones) did not get politically labelled as separate languages, but I think the degree of differences are probably comparable to Frisian vs Dutch. Nevertheless, many of these more distant rural dialects, mainly from the west coast, did receive a form of political protection in the form of legal recognition of the Nynorsk written standard.
I'm a Dutch linguist who's been learning Norwegian and I remember being pleasantly surprised by that ui/au sound! One point of clarification: Verb Second and SVO aren't exactly the same thing, although they overlap. Norwegian has SVO in main and subordinate clauses, but it only has V2 in main clauses. If you add an adverb like 'yesterday' to your example you can see that the verb doesn't precede it: 'brevet som du igår har mottatt'
@@Nynke_K I'm not sure I agree, but IANAL (I'm not a linguist) so I may be using the terminology wrongly. I know my own language pretty well, though, and one thing I've noticed is that adverb placement is quite liberal. You can write "brevet som du igår har mottatt" but also "brevet som du har mottatt igår".
When I was learning Norwegian, the word order constantly tripped me up. Also, once I was tour guide for a group of elderly Frisians, all with Frisian as their first language. Many Norwegians thought they spoke Norwegian, albeit an obscure dialect from remote and isolated region. I'll add to this that their Frisian was pretty archaic, and also, in terms of grammar and vocabulary. They had very little difficulty in making themselves understood. Once I saw a couple of men chatting away to some senior Norwegians...
When I was a kid, living near Breda, as soon as somebody said half a sentence I could tell from which village they came. Just by their accent. Nowadays those differences are smaller I guess. But then again a new coworker started 2.months ago and could immediately hear she was from within 20 km of the village I used to live as a kid.
English is a “stapeltaal” while Dutch is a “tangtaal” which means that in English you pile the part on top of each other.. I have read the book. In Dutch it is I have the book read.
Wow, what a great video! I’m also a linguist. Not a trained one, but a situation forced one. I speak 5 languages ( German, Slovak, English, Dutch and Italian) Favorites are German, English, Dutch and love your way of explaining Dutch.
Your "ui" pronunciation is great - as in "perfect" or A+. A nice Dutch word to illustrate your pronunciation point is "tuin" (a fenced-in area and in today's Dutch "garden") that if you mispronounce it becomes "town". And there you have, etymologically, the exact same word.
Perfect UI! It reminds me of my Australian ex learning Dutch. Her favourate word was sneeuwbui and pronouncing that word made her facemuscles do all sort of strange motions.
To complicate the [œy] (ui = onion ) sound story for English speakers: we also have the [ʏː] sound (like in 'deur' = door), and the [ø] sound (like in 'neus' = nose). It all sounds the same for them.
Dutch native speaker here: compliments on pronouncing our notoriously difficult "ui"! You're 99,9% there! Very convincing already. Small tip, to my ears it sounded like you put a slight "w" at the end... "ui-w"... you should think it more towards the spectrum of the 'j', from "je".. like "ui-j"... but without making it a full fledged "j"... think of our plural form of onions, "uien"... we don't say "ui-w-en", but "ui-j-en". Small disclaimer: the past two decades has seen an ever so slightly increase of people in the media pronouncing the "w"... so you'll all of sudden hear the weather forecaster talk about "bui-w-en" instead of "bui-j-en" when addressing the possibility of "buien" in the near future. Maybe they're the forerunners of a shift in how we'll pronounce the "ui" in the future, who knows, but for now the vast majority of native speakers still say "bui-j-en".
Nice topic to discuss, Eva 👏 We're Russian speaking English, Spanish and Polish. So, at the beginning Dutch seems to be simple as English but the deeper we go, the harder it gets. Now we're struggling with irregular word order and those hhhhh and ggggg are something to get used to.
@@DutchAmericano Why you earned your hugs from the Dutch. Yes we have the special sound good for us. Not for the rest of the world though. Not sure if you ever done a video on 'De tekkel tackelde de tekkel, maar toen de tekkel de tekkel tackelde, tackelde de getackelde tekkel de tackelende tekkel terug'? Or 'Als de poes van de postkoetskoetsier in de postkoets kotst, poetst de postkoetskoetsier zijn postkoets met postkoetsenpoets.' Would I like your professional opinion on this as a linguist? Nah I do not but? I want to see you try those on camera!
The difference between saying 'De brief die ik heb gekregen' en 'de brief die ik gekregen heb' is that in the first case the emphasis is on the letter itself and in case of the second one the emphasis is on 'me' having received the letter.
dear Eva who is also a linguist. If you're looking for something really interesting about the dutch language: in certain parts of Flanders there is a dialect where the JA and NEEN (Yes and No) are conjugated, just like a verb. So we have plenty of yes and no variations that contain more information than simply yes or no: it indicates what or who the yes or no relate to. BTW I like your videos, they are interesting, funny, well brought and you have a great voice. Keep going and good luck!
Yes, UI I knew it :) It's funny, whenever we're abroad in England or the US or any other area where they speak English it's funny to use the UI sound to have people look up in wonderment or horror...
About herhalen. The literal translations would be 'retake' which also means to repeat something, but only in a more narrow sense. Meaning you can use retake in less cases than repeat.
The "af" in afhalen isn't the "af" of completing (huiswerk af hebben), but the af that means "off" or "down from", like "het viel van de tafel af"/ it fell off the table. You are getting the food from the restaurant, away from them, hence "af"halen. Similar in "afzetten", to put down from (a car for example), and "afnemen", to take down from, etc.
Ha, Eva, you should know that Zaankanters (people who live in de Zaanstreek around Zaandam) do not pronounce "UI" as ... well ui, but they pronounce it as "EU". I'm not a linguist so I don't know how to write it phonetically, but it's the same as the sound in "deur" (like in a door). So "huis" becomes "heus" (and that would mean "for sure" in Dutch to me). I thought it was really awkward hearing it when I came to live here. Just a fun fact.
A long time ago I lived in Limburg and it freaked me out that the dialect changed very subtle from village to village. And they were less than five minutes apart ... on a bike that is.
The tongue twister I made up for my sister in law for practicing her 'ui' sound is: "We hebben een kruidentuin buiten, met uien en pruimen." Another one to practice serveral different sounds: "Er zit een scheur in de schuine schuurdeur."
Speaking of dialects and weird Dutch diphthongs, you should definitely look into how the ‘ui’ is pronounced in Den Haag haha. The Den Haag accent is brilliant to begin with. You might want to check out some classic Koot & Bie videos to hear it used a lot, for example the ones about ‘de Tegenpartij’.
Dutch has prefixes for verbs, English does the exact same thing, but Dutch compounds the words, while English uses prepositions. To take off, to take on, to take away etc etc. :) Prepositional phrases essentially. Lots of dialects have indeed very small differences, my mother comes from a village and can tell if someone is from that village or a village only 3 km away, by dialect. I can tell the difference between some variations of dialect in the region, but not on that small a scale. :)
In danish we have the letters æ,ø and å. I´ve noticed that the Scots use the æ-sound every time there is an I in a word. Difference will then be dæfference. One other thing I find interesting is sea shanties sung by the German singer, Hannes Wader. The mix of words from Friesian and English and a bit of German is so wonderful. I have an old LP with these shanties. Unfortunately I dont think you can stream them.
Zeeland is interesting for the dialects, there used to be a lot more islands but they were connected... and yes, every island had their own dialect, in fact some islands had even more than 1 dialect as the rivalling villages would have their own dialects, its great
I’m a linguist myself. Don’t practice it anymore, but I’m super aware of language similarities and differences. As a linguist you have a good take on the structures, but you seem to have forgotten that languages slowly develop over time, which is mostly true for words; they move around like crazy and sounds can take changes that makes you not recognize words in another language while they are actually very similar. Take the g to y change, which explains yellow and geel (in Italian something like giallo) and yard and gaard. Also g to w change. French guerre to war and many more. It’s sometimes hard to see similarities. Specially taking things literally, which you seem to have liked to be able to do, doesn’t work.So don’t. Look a little beyond literal meaning. Herhalen makes perfect sense. Her means again, like re in repeat. Halen is to get . So to get again makes sense. Just think back to your English repeat. How does that make sense? Re is again, but what about the peat? It comes from Old English peto which means something like to attack, as in Latin. There are too many false friends between languages to be able to guess unfortunately. A funny one to me was always the highest woman in English, the queen, which in old Dutch would be kweene for witch, the lowest kind of woman. By the way, old English and Dutch are much more similar that present day English and Dutch. A perfect tense used to have ge- in old English: gewriten instead of written. Infinitives would end with -an like to be was sindan: zijn. The old English sentence: Ic hæbe six ond twentig feoh butan min hūs, meant I have twenty six cattle outside my house. In Dutch it would be.ik heb zesentwintig vee buiten mijn huis. See? I love languages. Too bad English took such a different turn, away from its Germanic roots.
Dear Eva, I like your videos so much. Did you know, that Dutch, English and German originate in AngloSaxon? Alquin of York sails to Germany in the year 780 AD (appr.) on his way he visits Utrecht (he calls the city, Traject) and he speaks in his mothertongue to the Dutch (he calls them frisians). He tells this in a poem he wrote about this voyage, the poem is still extend (in latin). By the way, I think your dutch is excellent.... hope to see more videos of your.... vriendelijke groet, frits
Your pronounciation of ‘ui’ is great! I used to teach Dutch to the students in Wageningen and they found this by far the most difficult sound. (Even to hear the difference between ui and au.) But you pronounce it very well! 😃
My apologies to non-Dutch readers, but I just have to put this joke about the Dutch prefix "on-": Jantje zat in de klas, en zijn leraar zei "Als je een woord neemt, en je zet er 'on-' voor, dan wordt de betekenis van het woord negatief. Bijvoorbeeld ONgelukkig, ONzin, ONaardig, ONaangenaam. Wie weet er nog een voorbeeld?" Jantje steekt zijn hand op en zegt "ONderwijs, meneer!"
What a great vlog! Lived on the German border and worked on the German side for a while where the local dialect was very strong for German standards. And you guessed it: it is similar to the stronger variations of Dutch dialect in the region (Achterhoeks). Thanks for the in depth vlog!
I had some difficulty understanding your ‘halen’; i heard ‘hallen’. Isnt’t the long ‘aa’ also a sound you dont often use in english? Oh, halen is akin to hauling in english? Like ‘hauling in the net’. Pulling with your arms? And then generalized to picking up, getting stuff?
halen has a long 'a', hallen has a short 'a'. Trouble is that in English the 'a' sounds differently :-).I don't find, on the top of my head, a word in English with the sound of a Dutch/German/French 'a'. The closest would be the second a in "apartheid".
Perhaps it has been said by someone already, but "afspreken" makes perfect sense if you look at its base meaning. When you agree on something, agree to do something, this agreement has to be found by speaking to each other (well, and listening). When the agreement stands, you're effectively done speaking about it, so af+spreken. The fact that it just so happens that when said agreement is about a meeting, this is often omitted, does not change the core meaning of the verb.
The Dutch dialects can be divided in three large groups Frankish, Frisian and Saxon. The last one Nedersaksisch is officially recognized as a streektaal. A famous Dutch comedian Herman Finkers from Almelo, Twente once said that ABN Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands - General Civilized Dutch is a dialect that is spoken in the region of Haarlem. Have you heard of Tineke Schouten? She uses the Utrecht dialect in her shows and songs.
Hi Ava, interesting video, again. Most of the Dutch speak reasonably English , and here, close te the German border also reasonably Gerrman. English, German and even French is taught already early at school. Besides that, there"s the "natural" way of learning a language just by hearing it a lot and theat"s where the TV comes in. As a kid growing up in the sixties near te German border we also watched several German TV channels, even my younger sister who never learned German at school can speak or at least understand German. Same goes for the countless US TV series of which the kids can't get enough of, in relation of learnig to speak English. However, they already have an American accent and also often use "Urban" language. Last: To speak a language rather well, for example English, you have to "think English" was taught to me "-) Greetz Reggy
Yep, I'm so glad we had/have subtitles instead of dubbing of foreign TV series :-)! In addition to the 'teaching' value, I always enjoy being able to listen to the differences between US/UK/Aussie/South African English, Upstairs/Downstairs speech, Irish/Scottish/Cockney accents, NY vs Deep South etc. etc. Not to mention horrors like "Hände hoch, sir!" in Westerns, or the complaints like "But that is not John Wayne's (or some other actor's) voice!!!!!" which apparently happened in Germany when the original voice actor had died :-). I am told that the subtitle thing was simply a question of money, and I hear people say that it limits how much you can translate in time, but to me it has big advantages!
Small languages have more exceptions than languages which are spoken over a larger area: it is much easier to introduce new words which are understood by everyone. For instance, introduced by a single (comic) TV program or a news-paper article This also happens with sentence construction.
The change in dialects over a relatively short distance happens in England too - probably in most European countries. I remember driving 50 miles from Ipswich to Norwich with a friend who was brought up in Suffolk (rural) - the Norwich locals had a hard time understanding his Suffolk and vice-versa.
Hi Ava, look at it like this: The prefix 'her' means 'again'. So her-halen (to go fetch it again/ to repeat). I'm sure it's not etymologically correct but it's a nice ezelsbrug that might satisfy your need for logic. 'Af' means finished (among other things). So when something is 'afgesproken' it's a done deal. We're finished talking about it and we have agreed. So in this case we've talked about when we will meet and have agreed about the time and place, so that's afgesproken (done deal/ finished). We now have an afspraak. Oh, dialects you say? Flemish guy watching 😏.. Love your videos. Greetings from Antwerp.
I'm not a linguist but when 2 verb orders are technically both ok it feels like Flanders tends to have different preferences on verb orders sometimes. They also have a bunch of actual dialects of course.
Spreken has also a connotational overlap in Dutch with to agree in the sense of ‘met elkaar spreken’. Afspraken are verbale agreements of orgine. I think Dutch is more based on a audible context/connotation and English is more visual based language.
I think that 'afspreken' rather can be translated as 'making an appointment' wherefore you have to speak with each other to achieve that. 'To meet' can be literally translated as 'ontmoeten'; the moment that you see each other on the date and time you did make that appointment.
And "ontmoeten" has nothing (or very little) to do with the verb "moeten" (to must). It has to do with a congretation, a "moet". (or in english, a "meet"-ing), which was a tribe/village meeting for discussion/decision (parliament?). Comparable to the Islandish "Thing" (parliament). Which we also still have in dutch, we find it in a now oldfashioned word for a court case "een rechtsgeding" (geding -> thing).
There is a difference between ui in "huis" and ui in "trui". Only the second is a diphtong, going from the ui itself to i. And the ei/ij is not found either in other languages that I know of. About the long A: If you can say "vuilniszakken" (bin bags) and "vuilniszaken" (garbage business) correctly, you're there.
I would say 'afspreken' means to wrap up the talk, and agree on its conclusion. 'Af' will take is meaning of 'to finish' And even though people use afspraak synonymous with appointment, it's closer to agreement. I don't think it's as random as it seems..
The af prefix often means that something is (being) completed. When you agree with someone about some issue (for instance when to meet up) you are done speaking with them about that issue. Hence afspreken.
spreken - afspreken - toespreken - aanspreken - verspreken - bespreken . Have you ever come across these words, which indeed, when one thinks about it, would baffle a learner of the langwidge (sic!). Nice videos !!
Fries is a very old language, older than Dutch and it was spoken from Denmark to northern France. So this language is more than a dialect, it is the mother of modern Dutch and also modern English. When you look at old English, which is from around the year 700, that is very close to Fries and probably easier to understand by us Dutch than by English natives. I am not a linguïst, just speak a few languages and watch a lot of youtube content on languages where I got the info about old English.
I was born on Aruba (Caribbean island within the Dutch Kingdom). My primary languages are Papiaments (creole language) and English. I speak both at home with my parents and family. Most Arubans also speak Spanish. Mostly because we are so close to South America. On paper Dutch is an official language on all 6 islands, but is not often spoken outside of school etc. So certain things do not come natural to me. I am 42 and I've lived in NL for 20+ years. The biggest thing for me... is when to use 'de' and 'het' (dezelfde, hetzelfde, die, dat etc.) In my head both can sound correct. So often, I have to use de de/het app to see what is correct. Hahahaha
I am learning dutch myself and I admit that ‘ui’ sound is quite hard to pronounce, along with ‘u’, more than the ‘g’ or ‘ch’ sound. And I noticed that the ‘r’ sound are sometimes pronounced differently. But it’s fun to learn actually ✨
Your ui is top notch, Ava. I have never seem a native English speaker successfully make that noise before. I won't lie to you though: That labored, mildly indignant expression on your face when you pronounce it is incredibly cute and funny in a wry kind of way :'D That said... Are you ready to face the Final Boss of the Dutch language? - *Christiaan Huygens?*
I'm from Maastrich and if I speak "Mestreechs" ( wich is the unofficial language ) dutch people cannot understand me.... if you travel in the netherlands on the freeway from south to north, it is said that you will encounter a differant dialect every 10 minutes
If I remember correctly, the two word order weirdness goes back to our occupation by the French under Napoleon. The second form "gekregen heb" is arguably the more formal, literary variant and is less often seen or heard in normal conversation between ordinary people.
Hoi Ava! Leuk filmpje! Ik herken inderdaad wat je zegt over de werkwoorden met prefixen, het kan heel logisch zijn, maar het kan ook helemaal iets anders betekenen - onvoorspelbaar. 🤣 In de video zeg je dat je meerdere talen spreekt, ik vroeg me af: ga je aan de Polyglot Gathering 2022 deelnemen? - Mario
@@anouk1720 "Af" can have a different meaning then "Finish". It also means "downwards" (in motion or as in substract, comparable to the opposite "op"). So that explains the afwateren and afkalven. Afgaan as well I suppose; litterally "to go down".
Aftrappen is more strange I suppose because it indicates the start of something which is quite the opposite of finishing. But maybe this should be seen in the same way as aftellen; the aftrap starts the count down towards the end of an event or match.
Interestingly contradiction regarding the previous opposite pair "af" vs "op" springs to mind. To me both afhalen and ophalen mean exactly the same thing. Maybe it's a matter of perspective; for the one that receives "goods" it would be ophalen, and afhalen is from the perspective of the other side (they will have less goods afterwards).
Having done some real-time translation from Dutch to English, the different position of the verb is rather annoying. If the speaker likes long, complex sentences, there would sometimes by a minute or more where you'd wait for the verb, and then have to catch up when the sentence was completed. I'd even get strange looks: why aren't you translating, the speaker is talking all the time?
If I remember correctly, and I might not, in Dutch if there are two or more infinitive verbs at the end of a sentence, the most important one goes at the end, always in Dutch. In German the most important verb would go next from the end, with some exceptions(?). I saw a Swiss TV program in America and it was my first time hearing Swiss German and it sounded more like Dutch than German to me.
I wonder, since you're a linguist, what you know about and think of the difference between the Dutch "flem added" g-sound, and the Flemish, softly aspirated g-sound. I read somewhere that only a handful of languages actually still use this soft g and it's slowly dying out. Even in Europe the Flemish are apparently the only ones still using it. I far prefer the flemish soft g to the hard dutch gutteral g. But I'm biassed of course... :)
Sorry but the whole south of the Netherlands uses a soft g. It's just as Dutch as the hard g. Don't think it's only the part above the rivers that counts as Dutch. The Netherlands is more!
@@mariadebake5483 Sorrry but that is simply not true. I live in Gent. I personally know people from zealand. And they definetely use the dutch G. Yes it's softer than the northern dutch G, but it's still a more typical dutch guttural G, and NOT the softly aspirated flemish G formed in the roof of the mouth. Even dutch limburgers use a more dutch guttural G than the flemish one. It's only very close to the flemish border that the G becomes as soft as in flanders, like in maastricht. To someone from central or north Nederland the southern accents might sound like they use the soft flemish G, but they don't. They use a softer version of the dutch gutteral G. And a flemish speaker definetely hears the difference. And off course the soft G is just as dutch as harder G, they're both used in dutch dialects aren,t they? Flemish IS a dialect of Dutch. The soft flemish G however, is almost exclusively used in flanders, and only sporadicly in the south of the Netherlands, and even then only really close to the Flemish border.
@@mariadebake5483 Then i'm sorry to say you don't know what you're talking about. The soft flemish G is formed differently in the mouth than the harder Dutch G. And that is the difference i was talking about. It's even different from the harder short German G which isn't aspirated at all, which is more prevalent in limburgish closer to the german border. So yes, the southern provinces of the netherlands use a softer G, but it's still a very dutch gutteral G, formed in the back of the mouth and throat.
@@johanwittens7712 In the Netherlands everyone considers the Brabantian and Limburgian g a soft g. So according to most Dutch it's a soft g. Different standards I presume, so lets agree to disagree then. Prettige zondag!
you are right... it even goes beyond dialect though.... for example the word "ruilen" someone from Amsterdam would tell you past tens is "geruild" yet Brabanders usually will tell you ... nope it is "gerolen"
So much more to say about the various forms of Dutch and where it originates etc, Lower Saxon, Frankian and the lost one. Hope you make a video about that one. Would like to hear more about how written and spoken language influenced each other. If you ever saw a medieval handwritten text with all the m, n, o, i ,u next to each other it becomes more clear why we ended up with ui, oi, ij etc. nd how the various branches of Dutch pronounce it. etc. etc. etc.
With a friend I played word games by creating new words from a base verb like 'lezen' (=read) or 'drinken' (=drink) and all kinds of prefixes, in particular that are not used for that verb. Belezen, Herlezen, Aflezen, Oplezen, Voorlezen are commonly used. But Verlezen is not. And it makes fun to fantasize about possible meanings of that word. Could be like reading something wrong. Verdrinken and Opdrinken are common, Bedrinken less common, Afdrinken only in one specific context (afdronk, meaning aftertaste of wine). But Herdrinken is not. Could be like drinking your drink again (....). Voordrinken could be like what a serve did when drinking it to prevent poisoning his master. Or to give an example how to drink something.
First?!?! I'm curious about your thoughts on "ei" and "ij". Frisian is actually more like (old) English, I think. And the reason for these many dialects, I think, is that a lot of regions are separated by water, so that before there was a good infrastructure most people literally didn't get off of their (linguistic) island.
Don't get me wrong. Below, I wrote a lot of comments, but even when some of them are critical, I want t o stress that I love this vlog and all of the vlogs you publish!! Got that? OK. Then I'll continue the Dutch way: frankly but not rudely - I hope. "de brief die ik gekregen heb" is always followed by a period. If you want to continue the sentence (of course you want to), you must use the other order: "De brief die ik gekregen heb heb ik in mijn tas gestopt." The Dutch are so nice to also allow the other verb order when it's not the end of the sentence, but heb gets the period always. (I never learned this rule, as a native Dutch speaker, but that is what I 'instinctively' know.) :-) My favorite specialty of Dutch is the set of small words we throw in to color what we say. Words (tussenwerpsels: words thrown in) like wel, toch, even, best, lekker, gewoon, er, and verkleinwoordjes which are diminutives. "Ik heb er best wel een beetje zin in gekregen." Untranslatable! Narrowly followed by the virtue of combining clauses. The Dutch easily say: Hoewel ik ...., ben ik toch ...." (Although I ..., I still went ...) But English speakers more easily says: "I ... Yet, in the end ..." That gives the first sentence too much weight!! You're wrong about the Frisians!! They are a distinct people with a special culture, their special character traits and worldviews, and .... language!! It is not a dialect of Dutch. It's related to Scottish, I think. Don't insult the Frisians. They are great people. They have open pride. Therefore they are not jealous. And they saved many more of their Jews during WW II than the Hollanders.
Eva,you should try to understand the language they use in "de haag" even dutch people have difficulties to understand, unless you are from,or around the area,you would have fun trying to see how far you will get over there.
Not sure if anybody pointed this out but halen is pronounced haalen ( long A ), maybe i'm picky but it took me seeing it written before I got the meaning ( your ui sounds fine to me ) ( dutch sometimes does that with haal or loop ) where you do halen or lopen in writting but say haalen or loopen. Afspreken makes sense ( it comes from agreement it means it's the end of the conversation so the conversation is done or af ).
Great video, remember tho that Frisian is a separate language that even comes from a separate branch: Frisian comes from Anglo-Frisian, whereas Dutch comes from Frankonian, and all of this baffles me even more because even tho Dutch and Frisian are separate languages, they are awfully similar
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The word order in “De brief die ik gekregen heb” versus “De brief die ik heb gekregen” is not always relevant, but it allows a speaker to add a subtle stress difference. The former can be used to indicate that it was me who received the letter. the latter to stress that I _received_ the letter (as opposed to having _sent_ one for example). Besides the subtle difference in meaning, there is a regional difference. Regions closer to Germany will more often use “gekregen heb” and regions closer to the UK will more often use “heb gekregen”.
Wrt “herhalen” (loooooong A btw, otherwise people will hear “hallen”): this word has a cognate in other languages: in German it is wiederholen, in Danish gentage. All words use the verb “to take” with a prefix that indicates repetition: her-, wieder-, (i)gen- all (roughly) mean “again”. Even the English verb _to repeat_ has the same roots, albeit from Latin: re-petere, to try to obtain/get again
Oh, and Frisian has never been a dialect. It is a language of its own. It has its own grammar, vocabulary, native speakers, centuries of history, early medieval codices. Friesland as a “sovereign” regin existed way before the country The Netherlands existed, and even though modern Frisian is somewhat of a synthetic language, and many Frisians speak Dutch with a Frisian “twist”, it really is a language. Like Catalan is one, or Gaelic.
"Heb gekregen" is probably related to the French influence on the Dutch language : "j'ai reçu", ai =heb, reçu = gekregen.
It should be ' Heb gekregen' . ' Gekregen heb' is een Germanisme. It is falsely borrowed from the german language.
The stress difference could be important to understand the bigger context in which the sentence is used and to indicate the true subject (Ik/brief)
@@pvisit I learned in school (1970s) that "gekregen heb" is bad form, because it is a germanism.
The Frisians as a people had altercations with the Romans (see Tacitus) well before Nederland was even thought of. A series of forts was built by the Romans along the Rhine, maybe even at Trajectum!
As far as I know, Frisian was never considered a dialect of Dutch because it has always had a separate identity and history. It is in fact more closely related to English than Dutch. It received official status as a language next to Dutch in 1956.
Some of the sound changes that affected English and Frisian also affected Dutch, albeit to a lesser degree and a big part of the dialect continuum from the regions more upriver versus the regions closer to the coast has to do with those influences. Zeeuws in particular was influenced by these changes more pronouncedly than standard Dutch. But even the dialects in the Randstad have seen some of these influences. For instance, in standard Dutch, 'kunnen' has the first and third person forms 'kan'. However, in many Randstad dialects you will hear it pronounced as 'ken', which not so coincidentally is also the firs person form of 'kennen'. Children in school are derided for not using the proper form and not 'knowing' the difference between 'kennen' and 'kunnen', when in fact, as far as I now, this is a prime example of such a sound change.
Still, it is good to see that dialectal differences are no longer seen as 'defects' in the Netherlands. I myself cherish all those variations and evolutions. Dutch is still evolving, which sometimes is a source of frustration for me. For instance, 'hun' is NOT the subjective form of the third person plural personal pronoun! 'Die' is a demonstrative pronoun in Dutch, not an article! Ok I'll stop now ;-).
With regards to the 'ui' sound in Dutch, you're pronunciation of it is excellent. I once explained it to a British colleague who was struggling to learn (a very small bit of) Dutch by having this person say 'huis' the way a Scotsman would pronounce it. From that moment on, the 'ui' sound was no longer a struggle. It was not spot-on, but it came close enough.
My personal pet peeve of recent changes/mistakes that are becoming more widespread and accepted is people using "als" and "dan" interchangeable or reversed (e.g. "ik ben groter als jij" "Suriname is vier keer zo groot dan Nederland")
@@nienke7713 Many dialects only have the one; als. So you're asking people to make a distinction between words that for them aren't distinct at all. The same thing happens to people if they speak a foreign language that has two words for something that the person's native language only has one for. In Dutch for example, we have leren, we use it to say "Ik leer nu Engels" and to say "Mijn leraar leert mij nu Duits aan." In English this is learn and teach, and a lot, and I mean A LOT of Dutch people say learn when they mean teach. Same thing with als and dan.
@@AnnekeOosterink I just said it's a pet peeve of mine, it's something that annoys me, it sounds wrong and as much as I understand the reasons, that doesn't change. The worst part is actually that when I hear/see that, I unconsciously tend to judge the people using it as being less intelligent, and I really need to consciously remind myself that that's neither fair nor accurate. I don't want to judge people like that, but it still happens and it takes effort to overcome that.
I also get annoyed when Dutch speakers use "learn" when they mean "teach", but there I am unconsciously a bit more forgiving, I think, because I know they're not native speakers; whereas people speaking a dialect of Dutch do register in my brain as native speakers of Dutch, even though they may not actually be native speakers of Standard Dutch but rather native speakers of their dialect of Dutch (although to be fair, schools are supposed to teach them Standard Dutch, so they should have been taught the right way in Standard Dutch from a fairly early age; I learned English as a second language at a bilingual secondary school and now am fluent in English and frequently think in English as well, so if the school is doing a good job, then they should be able to achieve similar results with teaching kids Standard Dutch besides their native dialect).
That's what we wanted the world to think, Damouze.
Sort of a deescalation move. Sort of a civilian tranquilizer, as it were.
Of course Frisian is not a language. The idea alone, hahahah...
Ask Wiegel, he knows.
(West-)Frisian was indeed never considered a dialect of Dutch due to its different origin, the creation of a separate standard language, and indeed, its official status in the country. However, Frisian was and still is heavily influenced by Dutch, previously Hollandic dialects and currently Standard Dutch. In fact, it wouldn't be odd to argue that Frisian has become a Low Franconian language variety. As a result of these influences, Frisian and Dutch are to very large extents intelligible.
"It Nederlânsk is de offisjele taal fan 'e ûnôfhinklike lannen Nederlân, Belgje en Suriname en fan 'e autonome lannen Arûba, Kurasau en Sint-Marten. Yn Belgje dielt it de offisjele status mei it Frânsk en it Dútsk; op Arûba en Kurasau mei it Papiamintsk en op Sint-Marten mei it Ingelsk."
This sentence for example is fully comprehensible to Dutch speakers. Grammatical structures and the word order are also identical and the spelling feels familiar. But then... what are the criteria for a vernacular to be called a language?
An American friend of mine mentioned that the Dutch long A was pretty hard for her as wel. Confirmed by me hearing your pronounciation of "halen" as "hallen" untill you spelled it out on screen. :)
What about: verhalen, onthalen, behalen, doorhalen, herhalen, inhalen, overhalen, etc.
@@dutchman7623 And there was me thinking, those are something for Ava to. eh, achterhalen ;-)
@Ava , your "ui" is spot-on, by the way!
@@dutchman7623 En je kan verhalen van ver halen.
@@dutchman7623 Als ik me goed herinner noemden ze een "afhaalchinees" in Groningen een "weghaalchinees".
Yes true she's having problems with the long and short a. I've heard many English speakers have problems with it.
As someone already mentioned: your pronunciation of our 'ui' is excellent. And when you started talking about the verbs, I was reminded of the sentence our English teacher in middle school - discussing the number of verb forms in a sentence - wrote a Dutch example on the blackboard after telling a story: somebody was laughed at when he told he was once sitting at a campfire when he was vistited by a bear and ran for it. He answered: "Ik zou jou wel eens hebben willen zien blijven zitten kijken." How's that for a logical sentence with a large number of verbforms.
The record i've encountered for most verbs in a dutch sentence is "De oude lappen zouden hebben moeten kunnen blijven liggen branden"
Isn't the, "ui" sound similar to rounding of the mouth and saying, "ei"? I think saying, "ei" with the mouth rounded should sound like, "ui." I think that's how I was told when I went to Belgium as a student from America. The, "uu" is pronounced as, "ie" with the mouth rounded.
actually, hebben wiilen zien durven blijven zitten kijken. one up!
@@evanherk Those go next to last? It has been many years, I just have a difficult time figuring out the main verb sometimes. I know the order is different than usual in German, but I couldn't remember which one had exceptions.
@@robinspelbrink4225 "moeten hebben" then, rather than "hebben moeten", if you ask me. Though perhaps grammatically speaking, both are possible.
Yes! Let’s nerd out with more language videos!
Herhalen makes actually sense if you know the “her-“ means the same as “re-“ like in redecorating or in Dutch “herinrichten”.
True, but the "halen" part still doesn't make much sense. Not that the "peat" in repeat speaks to me... English has this exact same problem, haha.
It´s a retake :P
@@Snowshowslow initially I thought the same. Yet “halen” and so getting something and “herhalen” getting something again grow into the Dutch using it later on for other purposes. As we are traders you can imagine it growing from “Een bestelling herhalen” repeating a order, into “wilt u de bestelling herhalen?” De you like to repeat that order?
The origin of repeat doesn’t have anything to do with peat btw 😋 I just looked it up and apparently it comes from Latin/France re-petere (Latin: re-seak) -> repeter (old French) -> repeat
Edit: I just same Hans C said the same thing a bit earlier 😉
@@Snowshowslow I can imagine that it means something like 'getting it back from the past again'. The word 'inhalen' however...
@@SatumangoTheGreat I was thinking is "weg" in weghalen a prefix? Most of the prefix indicate a direction/location. And how about "naar je toe halen", is that also a prefix?
Hi, native speaker here. In my opinion you're pronunciation of the UI sound is quite flawless in this video. Well done! Your pronunciation of halen could be improved though. The A in halen is long like the AA in kaal. You pronounced it like hallen, the plural of hal (English: hall). I think the long A sound might also be absent in the English language.
Interesting to notice how well you pronunce our 'ui' and 'g' sounds that understandably must be quite difficult for native English speakers but on the under hand have difficulties with the long 'a', which to me seems to be much easier.
I live near Kijkduin. Given that both (dutch) _ij_ and _ui_ vowels are 'difficult' for many foreigners, it might be a better lithmus test for 'dutchness' than the more famous 'Scheveningen', located a few kms to the north (used during WW2 to find out whether someone was German or not).
Yes, the 'ij' and 'ui' sound are difficult for foreigners, apparently. My British mother (from Wales actually.... talk about difficult languages....) struggled with this all her life, although she had already spent more time here than in the UK. She pronounced 'Kijkduin' (where we lived) as 'cake-down'. And 'vloer' sounded more like her native 'floor'. Nice subject, thanks.
IJ should not be that dificult for English speakers as it is similar to I or EYE in English.
In Dutch we got the lange IJ (long IJ) and the korte EI (short EI), both are prenounced the same.
Hey Eva,
About Frisian being a language. Friesland has been a big country with its own language (off course frisian). When Friesland became a part of the Netherlands it was expected that people we gonna switch to Dutch. People didn't but it was allowed. Until a lawsuit. A Milk company wanted that a Frisian farmer sign the milk in Dutch and not in Frisian they gave him a ticket. A man from Heerenveen got a different ticket and wanted to explain in Frisian but wasnt a allowed. This created massive riots called Kneppelfreed. Due to that moment Frisian got it's recognition in the Netherlands.
Hey fellow American linguistics student here! Love seeing passionate linguists, keep up the awesome work 🙂
I think the funny thing with "ui" is, when you pronounce it "ou", it's very often another word, which makes it funny/confusing. Trui -> trouw, buiten -> bouten, lui -> lauw...
One of the first things I noticed when I started making Dutch friends is the huge variety of sounds their language has. They have different “r” sounds, very varied accents and the ability to pronounce pretty much anything in other languages extremely well.
Linguists think there are either 267 dialects or 613 dialects (depending on who you aks). There are so many subtle differences!!!
Yes we have surprisingly many dialects for such a small country. In fact most of us can hear, by way of the accent a person uses, which part of the country someone comes from.
Try the dialects in Groningen, they are as different from Dutch as Limburgs is. And what is spoken in West Groningen is closer to Frisian while Oost-Gronings can be understood pretty well by dialect speakers just across the German border
Some Dutch regions have many dialects. Traveling between towns was relatively hard: swamps or open water. Towns had different trading partners all over Europe (f.i. one more with England and the next with Scandinavia), which lead to language differences, different traditional clothing, and incompatible forks of the protestant church. Although those towns are now always connected by roads, these communities have not disappeared (although shrunk). About 3% of the Dutch population.
Yeah, you can stil see there was sea between where I live in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen and Ghent. You actually need to circle anticlockwise via the east and Brughes to Ghent to follow how the accent relates, which spread to the south of middle Zeeuws-Vlaanderen. Hence you travel 2 km through the polder and suddenly there's a huge accent change. Probably how I got interested in language. Mind you, Van Dale of the dictionary was born in Zeeuws-Vlaanderen as well.
_"Some Dutch regions have many dialects. "_
Je kunt ook overdrijven, Mark.
It's not _that_ bad.
@@FrankHeuvelman..... ik woon in landgraaf...dat zijn 3 dorpen die aan elkaar gegroeid zijn.. dus sowieso al 3 dialecten...en in het dorp waarin ik woon ligt de wijk waubach met daarin de groenstraat en zelfs tussen woabichs en grunsjtroats hoor je verschil... waarmee ik dus wil zeggen dat het niet overdreven is,althans voor limburgse dialecten.
@@hideouspatje Dan zullen jullie in het verleden best wel een hoop ruzie met elkaar hebben gemaakt.
@@FrankHeuvelman burgeroorlogen...loopgraven in de straat....airstrikes....tactical nukes...de hele rataplan
It’s so great how you are doing this, it puts a smile on my face! You sound so great while speaking Dutch. I heard you talking many times in dutch and you really nailed it! Keep on doing what you do!!
I'm not claiming every prefix makes sense, but in "afspreken" it does. "Spreken" does not refer to what you are going to do but what you did, you spoke about meeting up, and 'af' means you closed the discussion. So you speak and you come to an agreement, about a date to meet up, or anything else.
To understand and memorize Dutch prefixes like that better you might try to approach it a bit more abstract. The tricky thing with Dutch prefixes like af, op, uit, be and ver is that they have different meanings that might nontheless interact and depend on the way it's pronounced, with often only slight differences.
This pronunciation can also turn a neutral meaning of the prefix into a rude comment. "Afwerken" is a good thing when making furniture, as in finishing. But with the slightest different tone it expresses a very negativie attitude towards what had to be done. In the word "afgang" the negative association of 'af' as in downward has replaced the original meaning. Technically is just the act of walking off stage after a performance, which tends to be physically downward as well and not just 'af' as in finishing, but has come to mean the embarassement of bad performance on stage. It even got the meaning of an embarrasing performance itself.
German has the same notion in the noun "Abrede" and the verb "verabreden".
There is no rationale to prefixes and prep + verb combinations: they're arbitrary. You need to learn them by heart. That sucks, but there is no other way, unfortunately
I really thought that your 'afwerken' example was going towards how the word is also used in terms of how prostitutes 'afwerken' their customers.
Sometimes you can add a prefix to a word, seemingly inverting the meaning, yet both options have the same meaning. Like "guur" and "onguur", which both mean dodgy.
In English too: flammable vs inflammable.
Really? I’ve never heard “guur” in the meaning of dodgy. I’ve only ever heard “guur” in the context of bad weather.
@@RosesAndIvy How about "gure types" / "ongure types"? And even in the context of weather the same goes for onguur and guur.
Eva, you did the "UI" perfect.
1> I new some native english speaker who could only pronounce the “ui” in the word “stofzuiger” ( hover ).
2> when I moved from Zeist to Haarlem (70km) I had to get use to the difference of interpretation of the word “link” . In Zeist-“dialect” it was dangerous/stupid in Harlem it was new/exciting….(50 years ago).
3> As a child we played with emphesising and how it changed the meanig of what you say. Favoriete was “Ik moet nodig naar de WC.
IK moet nodig naar de wc. I have to go to the loo. ( not someone else )
Ik MOET nodig naar de wc. I really have to go to the loo.
Ik moet NODIG naar de wc. I desperately need go tot the loo.
Ik moet nodig NAAR de wc. I have to go towarts the loo. ( not away from it )
Ik moet nodig naar DE wc. I have to go the the very special toilet. ( not a random one)
Ik moet nodig naar de WC. I have to go to the place known as “wc”. ( not to the kitchen.
The sentence is exactly the same only the emphesising differ. Fun to play with as child. Can you do that in english as well? For a lot of sentences not for just a few?
As a native Norwegian speaker from the west coast, I have both the "ui" sound (which we write "au", but also "eu" in names like "Europa") and a version of the phlegmy throaty sound (that's how I pronounce the letter "r"), or at least close enough as makes no practical difference. I also use V2 word-order, but unlike Dutch I will also use V2 in subordinate sentences, so no SOV for me (though you can get away with it in poetry). Unlike Dutch I don't get a choice as to word order as in the example "de brief die ik heb gekregen", it has to be that one -- the German-style order would be _verboten_ -- "brevet som jeg har mottatt" or "brevet som eg har motteke" (depending on which written standard of the language is in use).
We also have the exact same situation with prefixes. The examples also transfer very well: "Tale" is a very formal word meaning "speak", while "tiltale" means "address" (also "indict(ment)" in law), while "avtale" means "agree" or "appointment" (as for meeting up with someone). Finally, the dialect situation sounds really similar. In our case, the more distant dialects (compared to the more widely used ones) did not get politically labelled as separate languages, but I think the degree of differences are probably comparable to Frisian vs Dutch. Nevertheless, many of these more distant rural dialects, mainly from the west coast, did receive a form of political protection in the form of legal recognition of the Nynorsk written standard.
I'm a Dutch linguist who's been learning Norwegian and I remember being pleasantly surprised by that ui/au sound! One point of clarification: Verb Second and SVO aren't exactly the same thing, although they overlap. Norwegian has SVO in main and subordinate clauses, but it only has V2 in main clauses. If you add an adverb like 'yesterday' to your example you can see that the verb doesn't precede it: 'brevet som du igår har mottatt'
@@Nynke_K I'm not sure I agree, but IANAL (I'm not a linguist) so I may be using the terminology wrongly. I know my own language pretty well, though, and one thing I've noticed is that adverb placement is quite liberal. You can write "brevet som du igår har mottatt" but also "brevet som du har mottatt igår".
When I was learning Norwegian, the word order constantly tripped me up. Also, once I was tour guide for a group of elderly Frisians, all with Frisian as their first language. Many Norwegians thought they spoke Norwegian, albeit an obscure dialect from remote and isolated region. I'll add to this that their Frisian was pretty archaic, and also, in terms of grammar and vocabulary. They had very little difficulty in making themselves understood. Once I saw a couple of men chatting away to some senior Norwegians...
When I was a kid, living near Breda, as soon as somebody said half a sentence I could tell from which village they came. Just by their accent. Nowadays those differences are smaller I guess. But then again a new coworker started 2.months ago and could immediately hear she was from within 20 km of the village I used to live as a kid.
SAME! I knew by the specific vocabulary of swear words from which vilage around me people where :P
Yes I am from Kaatsheuvel, living in Tilburg for more than 40 years now, and experienced the same!
English is a “stapeltaal” while Dutch is a “tangtaal” which means that in English you pile the part on top of each other.. I have read the book. In Dutch it is I have the book read.
Well explained!
Wow, what a great video! I’m also a linguist. Not a trained one, but a situation forced one. I speak 5 languages ( German, Slovak, English, Dutch and Italian) Favorites are German, English, Dutch and love your way of explaining Dutch.
Your "ui" pronunciation is great - as in "perfect" or A+. A nice Dutch word to illustrate your pronunciation point is "tuin" (a fenced-in area and in today's Dutch "garden") that if you mispronounce it becomes "town". And there you have, etymologically, the exact same word.
I thought her stand-alone ui was incorrect, but in huis/trui was OK.
A+ ... or in the Dutch university system: a 75
Perfect UI! It reminds me of my Australian ex learning Dutch. Her favourate word was sneeuwbui and pronouncing that word made her facemuscles do all sort of strange motions.
To complicate the [œy] (ui = onion ) sound story for English speakers: we also have the [ʏː] sound (like in 'deur' = door), and the [ø] sound (like in 'neus' = nose). It all sounds the same for them.
I think the "spreken" in "afspreken" refers to the speaking you do with someone to make an arrangement or come to an agreement beforehand
Dutch native speaker here: compliments on pronouncing our notoriously difficult "ui"! You're 99,9% there! Very convincing already. Small tip, to my ears it sounded like you put a slight "w" at the end... "ui-w"... you should think it more towards the spectrum of the 'j', from "je".. like "ui-j"... but without making it a full fledged "j"... think of our plural form of onions, "uien"... we don't say "ui-w-en", but "ui-j-en". Small disclaimer: the past two decades has seen an ever so slightly increase of people in the media pronouncing the "w"... so you'll all of sudden hear the weather forecaster talk about "bui-w-en" instead of "bui-j-en" when addressing the possibility of "buien" in the near future. Maybe they're the forerunners of a shift in how we'll pronounce the "ui" in the future, who knows, but for now the vast majority of native speakers still say "bui-j-en".
Nice topic to discuss, Eva 👏 We're Russian speaking English, Spanish and Polish. So, at the beginning Dutch seems to be simple as English but the deeper we go, the harder it gets. Now we're struggling with irregular word order and those hhhhh and ggggg are something to get used to.
So many languages!
@@DutchAmericano Why you earned your hugs from the Dutch. Yes we have the special sound good for us. Not for the rest of the world though. Not sure if you ever done a video on 'De tekkel tackelde de tekkel, maar toen de tekkel de tekkel tackelde, tackelde de getackelde tekkel de tackelende tekkel terug'? Or 'Als de poes van de postkoetskoetsier in de postkoets kotst, poetst de postkoetskoetsier zijn postkoets met postkoetsenpoets.' Would I like your professional opinion on this as a linguist? Nah I do not but? I want to see you try those on camera!
The difference between saying 'De brief die ik heb gekregen' en 'de brief die ik gekregen heb' is that in the first case the emphasis is on the letter itself and in case of the second one the emphasis is on 'me' having received the letter.
20 minutes on a bicycle brings you in a different dialect, 20 minutes in a car or train brings you at the oposit side of the province).
From Utrecht the train brings you to Gelderland, Noord Holland, Zuid Holland and to the tip of Noord Brabant all in 20 minutes.
dear Eva who is also a linguist. If you're looking for something really interesting about the dutch language: in certain parts of Flanders there is a dialect where the JA and NEEN (Yes and No) are conjugated, just like a verb. So we have plenty of yes and no variations that contain more information than simply yes or no: it indicates what or who the yes or no relate to.
BTW I like your videos, they are interesting, funny, well brought and you have a great voice. Keep going and good luck!
Yes, UI I knew it :) It's funny, whenever we're abroad in England or the US or any other area where they speak English it's funny to use the UI sound to have people look up in wonderment or horror...
You pronounced ui perfectly.
About herhalen. The literal translations would be 'retake' which also means to repeat something, but only in a more narrow sense. Meaning you can use retake in less cases than repeat.
9:35 - "wrong, not always" - case in point: _aftrekken,_ which means "subtract" but also has a completely unrelated meaning which may surprise you.
The "af" in afhalen isn't the "af" of completing (huiswerk af hebben), but the af that means "off" or "down from", like "het viel van de tafel af"/ it fell off the table.
You are getting the food from the restaurant, away from them, hence "af"halen.
Similar in "afzetten", to put down from (a car for example), and "afnemen", to take down from, etc.
Ha, Eva, you should know that Zaankanters (people who live in de Zaanstreek around Zaandam) do not pronounce "UI" as ... well ui,
but they pronounce it as "EU". I'm not a linguist so I don't know how to write it phonetically, but it's the same as the sound in "deur" (like in a door).
So "huis" becomes "heus" (and that would mean "for sure" in Dutch to me). I thought it was really awkward hearing it when I came to live here. Just a fun fact.
A long time ago I lived in Limburg and it freaked me out that the dialect changed very subtle from village to village. And they were less than five minutes apart ... on a bike that is.
Finally the language video! I was hoping on something like this for so long. I hope you do more of them!
The tongue twister I made up for my sister in law for practicing her 'ui' sound is: "We hebben een kruidentuin buiten, met uien en pruimen." Another one to practice serveral different sounds: "Er zit een scheur in de schuine schuurdeur."
Speaking of dialects and weird Dutch diphthongs, you should definitely look into how the ‘ui’ is pronounced in Den Haag haha. The Den Haag accent is brilliant to begin with. You might want to check out some classic Koot & Bie videos to hear it used a lot, for example the ones about ‘de Tegenpartij’.
Actually, Den Haag has at least two dialects; 'Hoog Haags' and 'Laag Haags' (or: 'bekakt' and 'Hagenees').
Dutch has prefixes for verbs, English does the exact same thing, but Dutch compounds the words, while English uses prepositions. To take off, to take on, to take away etc etc. :) Prepositional phrases essentially.
Lots of dialects have indeed very small differences, my mother comes from a village and can tell if someone is from that village or a village only 3 km away, by dialect. I can tell the difference between some variations of dialect in the region, but not on that small a scale. :)
Besides "ui" you could also mention "eeuw". I notice that a lot of non-native speakers tend to pronounce for example "sneeuw" as "sneu".
In danish we have the letters æ,ø and å. I´ve noticed that the Scots use the æ-sound every time there is an I in a word. Difference will then be dæfference.
One other thing I find interesting is sea shanties sung by the German singer, Hannes Wader. The mix of words from Friesian and English and a bit of German is so wonderful. I have an old LP with these shanties. Unfortunately I dont think you can stream them.
Btw, I wonder if "halen" is related to the English "haul"? Because then "herhalen" etc. makes sense.
probably!
In main clauses, Dutch is an SOV language. "Ik slacht het paard". As opposed to French, for instance, which is an SOV language.
I think you meant "In main clauses, Dutch is an SVO language..."
Zeeland is interesting for the dialects, there used to be a lot more islands but they were connected... and yes, every island had their own dialect, in fact some islands had even more than 1 dialect as the rivalling villages would have their own dialects, its great
I’m a linguist myself. Don’t practice it anymore, but I’m super aware of language similarities and differences. As a linguist you have a good take on the structures, but you seem to have forgotten that languages slowly develop over time, which is mostly true for words; they move around like crazy and sounds can take changes that makes you not recognize words in another language while they are actually very similar. Take the g to y change, which explains yellow and geel (in Italian something like giallo) and yard and gaard. Also g to w change. French guerre to war and many more. It’s sometimes hard to see similarities. Specially taking things literally, which you seem to have liked to be able to do, doesn’t work.So don’t. Look a little beyond literal meaning. Herhalen makes perfect sense. Her means again, like re in repeat. Halen is to get . So to get again makes sense. Just think back to your English repeat. How does that make sense? Re is again, but what about the peat? It comes from Old English peto which means something like to attack, as in Latin.
There are too many false friends between languages to be able to guess unfortunately. A funny one to me was always the highest woman in English, the queen, which in old Dutch would be kweene for witch, the lowest kind of woman. By the way, old English and Dutch are much more similar that present day English and Dutch. A perfect tense used to have ge- in old English: gewriten instead of written. Infinitives would end with -an like to be was sindan: zijn. The old English sentence: Ic hæbe six ond twentig feoh butan min hūs, meant I have twenty six cattle outside my house. In Dutch it would be.ik heb zesentwintig vee buiten mijn huis. See?
I love languages. Too bad English took such a different turn, away from its Germanic roots.
In swedish. Kvinna means women
Dit was een erg leerzame vlog . Ik vond t erg goed , mag je van mij vaker doen zo , erg interessant.
Wat erg zeg, je hebt drie keer dat woord erg in één zin gebruikt. 🤣
Dear Eva, I like your videos so much. Did you know, that Dutch, English and German originate in AngloSaxon? Alquin of York sails to Germany in the year 780 AD (appr.) on his way he visits Utrecht (he calls the city, Traject) and he speaks in his mothertongue to the Dutch (he calls them frisians). He tells this in a poem he wrote about this voyage, the poem is still extend (in latin). By the way, I think your dutch is excellent.... hope to see more videos of your.... vriendelijke groet, frits
Your pronounciation of ‘ui’ is great! I used to teach Dutch to the students in Wageningen and they found this by far the most difficult sound. (Even to hear the difference between ui and au.) But you pronounce it very well! 😃
My apologies to non-Dutch readers, but I just have to put this joke about the Dutch prefix "on-":
Jantje zat in de klas, en zijn leraar zei "Als je een woord neemt, en je zet er 'on-' voor, dan wordt de betekenis van het woord negatief. Bijvoorbeeld ONgelukkig, ONzin, ONaardig, ONaangenaam. Wie weet er nog een voorbeeld?"
Jantje steekt zijn hand op en zegt "ONderwijs, meneer!"
Haha, die moet ik onthouden:) Net zoiets als woorden waar TE voor staat. Te veel, Te weinig, Te lang, Te kort. Behalve Tevreden 😄
ONderbroek
with "halen" another meaning is "to reach". You can see this with verbs like "behalen". I think "herhalen" is something like "re-reach".
What a great vlog! Lived on the German border and worked on the German side for a while where the local dialect was very strong for German standards. And you guessed it: it is similar to the stronger variations of Dutch dialect in the region (Achterhoeks). Thanks for the in depth vlog!
I had some difficulty understanding your ‘halen’; i heard ‘hallen’. Isnt’t the long ‘aa’ also a sound you dont often use in english? Oh, halen is akin to hauling in english? Like ‘hauling in the net’. Pulling with your arms? And then generalized to picking up, getting stuff?
halen has a long 'a', hallen has a short 'a'. Trouble is that in English the 'a' sounds differently :-).I don't find, on the top of my head, a word in English with the sound of a Dutch/German/French 'a'. The closest would be the second a in "apartheid".
Dankjewel voor het uitleggen van mijn taal. You are amazing in explaining some of the ordinary things in life.
Perhaps it has been said by someone already, but "afspreken" makes perfect sense if you look at its base meaning. When you agree on something, agree to do something, this agreement has to be found by speaking to each other (well, and listening). When the agreement stands, you're effectively done speaking about it, so af+spreken.
The fact that it just so happens that when said agreement is about a meeting, this is often omitted, does not change the core meaning of the verb.
The Dutch dialects can be divided in three large groups Frankish, Frisian and Saxon. The last one Nedersaksisch is officially recognized as a streektaal. A famous Dutch comedian Herman Finkers from Almelo, Twente once said that ABN Algemeen Beschaafd Nederlands - General Civilized Dutch is a dialect that is spoken in the region of Haarlem. Have you heard of Tineke Schouten? She uses the Utrecht dialect in her shows and songs.
You're doing great with the "ui"! Especially when I compare it to my expat friends trying to pronounce my name 😆
Hi Ava, interesting video, again. Most of the Dutch speak reasonably English , and here, close te the German border also reasonably Gerrman. English, German and even French is taught already early at school. Besides that, there"s the "natural" way of learning a language just by hearing it a lot and theat"s where the TV comes in.
As a kid growing up in the sixties near te German border we also watched several German TV channels, even my younger sister who never learned German at school can speak or at least understand German.
Same goes for the countless US TV series of which the kids can't get enough of, in relation of learnig to speak English.
However, they already have an American accent and also often use "Urban" language.
Last: To speak a language rather well, for example English, you have to "think English" was taught to me "-) Greetz Reggy
Yep, I'm so glad we had/have subtitles instead of dubbing of foreign TV series :-)! In addition to the 'teaching' value, I always enjoy being able to listen to the differences between US/UK/Aussie/South African English, Upstairs/Downstairs speech, Irish/Scottish/Cockney accents, NY vs Deep South etc. etc. Not to mention horrors like "Hände hoch, sir!" in Westerns, or the complaints like "But that is not John Wayne's (or some other actor's) voice!!!!!" which apparently happened in Germany when the original voice actor had died :-).
I am told that the subtitle thing was simply a question of money, and I hear people say that it limits how much you can translate in time, but to me it has big advantages!
Small languages have more exceptions than languages which are spoken over a larger area: it is much easier to introduce new words which are understood by everyone. For instance, introduced by a single (comic) TV program or a news-paper article This also happens with sentence construction.
The change in dialects over a relatively short distance happens in England too - probably in most European countries. I remember driving 50 miles from Ipswich to Norwich with a friend who was brought up in Suffolk (rural) - the Norwich locals had a hard time understanding his Suffolk and vice-versa.
Hi Ava, look at it like this:
The prefix 'her' means 'again'. So her-halen (to go fetch it again/ to repeat). I'm sure it's not etymologically correct but it's a nice ezelsbrug that might satisfy your need for logic.
'Af' means finished (among other things). So when something is 'afgesproken' it's a done deal. We're finished talking about it and we have agreed. So in this case we've talked about when we will meet and have agreed about the time and place, so that's afgesproken (done deal/ finished). We now have an afspraak.
Oh, dialects you say? Flemish guy watching 😏..
Love your videos. Greetings from Antwerp.
I'm not a linguist but when 2 verb orders are technically both ok it feels like Flanders tends to have different preferences on verb orders sometimes. They also have a bunch of actual dialects of course.
Spreken has also a connotational overlap in Dutch with to agree in the sense of ‘met elkaar spreken’. Afspraken are verbale agreements of orgine. I think Dutch is more based on a audible context/connotation and English is more visual based language.
I think that 'afspreken' rather can be translated as 'making an appointment' wherefore you have to speak with each other to achieve that.
'To meet' can be literally translated as 'ontmoeten'; the moment that you see each other on the date and time you did make that appointment.
And "ontmoeten" has nothing (or very little) to do with the verb "moeten" (to must).
It has to do with a congretation, a "moet". (or in english, a "meet"-ing), which was a tribe/village meeting for discussion/decision (parliament?).
Comparable to the Islandish "Thing" (parliament). Which we also still have in dutch, we find it in a now oldfashioned word for a court case "een rechtsgeding" (geding -> thing).
There is a difference between ui in "huis" and ui in "trui". Only the second is a diphtong, going from the ui itself to i.
And the ei/ij is not found either in other languages that I know of.
About the long A: If you can say "vuilniszakken" (bin bags) and "vuilniszaken" (garbage business) correctly, you're there.
I would say 'afspreken' means to wrap up the talk, and agree on its conclusion. 'Af' will take is meaning of 'to finish' And even though people use afspraak synonymous with appointment, it's closer to agreement.
I don't think it's as random as it seems..
The Dutch "ui" sound can be found in Norwegian (øy) and Icelandic (au) too.
There is a hard g (with flem) north of the rivers. And a soft g . Below
The af prefix often means that something is (being) completed. When you agree with someone about some issue (for instance when to meet up) you are done speaking with them about that issue. Hence afspreken.
spreken - afspreken - toespreken - aanspreken - verspreken - bespreken . Have you ever come across these words, which indeed, when one thinks about it, would baffle a learner of the langwidge (sic!). Nice videos !!
Fries is a very old language, older than Dutch and it was spoken from Denmark to northern France.
So this language is more than a dialect, it is the mother of modern Dutch and also modern English.
When you look at old English, which is from around the year 700, that is very close to Fries and probably easier to understand by us Dutch than by English natives.
I am not a linguïst, just speak a few languages and watch a lot of youtube content on languages where I got the info about old English.
Halen is an action
Spreken is verbal afspreken is a verbal agreement.
I was born on Aruba (Caribbean island within the Dutch Kingdom). My primary languages are Papiaments (creole language) and English. I speak both at home with my parents and family. Most Arubans also speak Spanish. Mostly because we are so close to South America. On paper Dutch is an official language on all 6 islands, but is not often spoken outside of school etc. So certain things do not come natural to me. I am 42 and I've lived in NL for 20+ years. The biggest thing for me... is when to use 'de' and 'het' (dezelfde, hetzelfde, die, dat etc.)
In my head both can sound correct. So often, I have to use de de/het app to see what is correct. Hahahaha
The closest another language comes to the Dutch ‘ui’ is the Canadian ‘ou’, as in ‘house’ or ‘about’, in my experience.
Good point.
I am learning dutch myself and I admit that ‘ui’ sound is quite hard to pronounce, along with ‘u’, more than the ‘g’ or ‘ch’ sound. And I noticed that the ‘r’ sound are sometimes pronounced differently. But it’s fun to learn actually ✨
Your ui is top notch, Ava. I have never seem a native English speaker successfully make that noise before. I won't lie to you though: That labored, mildly indignant expression on your face when you pronounce it is incredibly cute and funny in a wry kind of way :'D
That said... Are you ready to face the Final Boss of the Dutch language? - *Christiaan Huygens?*
I'm from Maastrich and if I speak "Mestreechs" ( wich is the unofficial language ) dutch people cannot understand me.... if you travel in the netherlands on the freeway from south to north, it is said that you will encounter a differant dialect every 10 minutes
Couldn't agree more, especially when trying to pronounce 'huis' when thinking of 'house'...
If I remember correctly, the two word order weirdness goes back to our occupation by the French under Napoleon. The second form "gekregen heb" is arguably the more formal, literary variant and is less often seen or heard in normal conversation between ordinary people.
Just as often heard and used as the other one
Your "UI" pronunciation is spot on. Don't worry about using it
Hoi Ava! Leuk filmpje! Ik herken inderdaad wat je zegt over de werkwoorden met prefixen, het kan heel logisch zijn, maar het kan ook helemaal iets anders betekenen - onvoorspelbaar. 🤣 In de video zeg je dat je meerdere talen spreekt, ik vroeg me af: ga je aan de Polyglot Gathering 2022 deelnemen?
- Mario
Afspreken = "finish speaking" about what you two are going to do. These verb-extensions all make sense in some way.
@@anouk1720 "Af" can have a different meaning then "Finish". It also means "downwards" (in motion or as in substract, comparable to the opposite "op"). So that explains the afwateren and afkalven. Afgaan as well I suppose; litterally "to go down".
Aftrappen is more strange I suppose because it indicates the start of something which is quite the opposite of finishing. But maybe this should be seen in the same way as aftellen; the aftrap starts the count down towards the end of an event or match.
Interestingly contradiction regarding the previous opposite pair "af" vs "op" springs to mind. To me both afhalen and ophalen mean exactly the same thing. Maybe it's a matter of perspective; for the one that receives "goods" it would be ophalen, and afhalen is from the perspective of the other side (they will have less goods afterwards).
Having done some real-time translation from Dutch to English, the different position of the verb is rather annoying. If the speaker likes long, complex sentences, there would sometimes by a minute or more where you'd wait for the verb, and then have to catch up when the sentence was completed.
I'd even get strange looks: why aren't you translating, the speaker is talking all the time?
If I remember correctly, and I might not, in Dutch if there are two or more infinitive verbs at the end of a sentence, the most important one goes at the end, always in Dutch. In German the most important verb would go next from the end, with some exceptions(?). I saw a Swiss TV program in America and it was my first time hearing Swiss German and it sounded more like Dutch than German to me.
I wonder, since you're a linguist, what you know about and think of the difference between the Dutch "flem added" g-sound, and the Flemish, softly aspirated g-sound. I read somewhere that only a handful of languages actually still use this soft g and it's slowly dying out. Even in Europe the Flemish are apparently the only ones still using it.
I far prefer the flemish soft g to the hard dutch gutteral g. But I'm biassed of course... :)
Sorry but the whole south of the Netherlands uses a soft g. It's just as Dutch as the hard g. Don't think it's only the part above the rivers that counts as Dutch. The Netherlands is more!
@@mariadebake5483 Sorrry but that is simply not true. I live in Gent. I personally know people from zealand. And they definetely use the dutch G. Yes it's softer than the northern dutch G, but it's still a more typical dutch guttural G, and NOT the softly aspirated flemish G formed in the roof of the mouth. Even dutch limburgers use a more dutch guttural G than the flemish one. It's only very close to the flemish border that the G becomes as soft as in flanders, like in maastricht.
To someone from central or north Nederland the southern accents might sound like they use the soft flemish G, but they don't. They use a softer version of the dutch gutteral G. And a flemish speaker definetely hears the difference.
And off course the soft G is just as dutch as harder G, they're both used in dutch dialects aren,t they? Flemish IS a dialect of Dutch. The soft flemish G however, is almost exclusively used in flanders, and only sporadicly in the south of the Netherlands, and even then only really close to the Flemish border.
@@johanwittens7712 I didn't say we have a Flemish g, only we have a soft g.
@@mariadebake5483 Then i'm sorry to say you don't know what you're talking about. The soft flemish G is formed differently in the mouth than the harder Dutch G. And that is the difference i was talking about. It's even different from the harder short German G which isn't aspirated at all, which is more prevalent in limburgish closer to the german border.
So yes, the southern provinces of the netherlands use a softer G, but it's still a very dutch gutteral G, formed in the back of the mouth and throat.
@@johanwittens7712 In the Netherlands everyone considers the Brabantian and Limburgian g a soft g. So according to most Dutch it's a soft g. Different standards I presume, so lets agree to disagree then.
Prettige zondag!
you are right... it even goes beyond dialect though.... for example the word "ruilen" someone from Amsterdam would tell you past tens is "geruild" yet Brabanders usually will tell you ... nope it is "gerolen"
So much more to say about the various forms of Dutch and where it originates etc, Lower Saxon, Frankian and the lost one. Hope you make a video about that one.
Would like to hear more about how written and spoken language influenced each other. If you ever saw a medieval handwritten text with all the m, n, o, i ,u next to each other it becomes more clear why we ended up with ui, oi, ij etc. nd how the various branches of Dutch pronounce it.
etc. etc. etc.
With a friend I played word games by creating new words from a base verb like 'lezen' (=read) or 'drinken' (=drink) and all kinds of prefixes, in particular that are not used for that verb.
Belezen, Herlezen, Aflezen, Oplezen, Voorlezen are commonly used. But Verlezen is not. And it makes fun to fantasize about possible meanings of that word. Could be like reading something wrong.
Verdrinken and Opdrinken are common, Bedrinken less common, Afdrinken only in one specific context (afdronk, meaning aftertaste of wine). But Herdrinken is not. Could be like drinking your drink again (....). Voordrinken could be like what a serve did when drinking it to prevent poisoning his master. Or to give an example how to drink something.
First?!?!
I'm curious about your thoughts on "ei" and "ij".
Frisian is actually more like (old) English, I think.
And the reason for these many dialects, I think, is that a lot of regions are separated by water, so that before there was a good infrastructure most people literally didn't get off of their (linguistic) island.
Let's just say Frisian is close to Danish, where the Germanic origins are.
Well, that explains why duolingo always tells me I’m saying “huis” wrong
You nailed the ui. I am impressed.
Don't get me wrong. Below, I wrote a lot of comments, but even when some of them are critical, I want t o stress that I love this vlog and all of the vlogs you publish!! Got that? OK. Then I'll continue the Dutch way: frankly but not rudely - I hope.
"de brief die ik gekregen heb" is always followed by a period. If you want to continue the sentence (of course you want to), you must use the other order: "De brief die ik gekregen heb heb ik in mijn tas gestopt." The Dutch are so nice to also allow the other verb order when it's not the end of the sentence, but heb gets the period always. (I never learned this rule, as a native Dutch speaker, but that is what I 'instinctively' know.) :-)
My favorite specialty of Dutch is the set of small words we throw in to color what we say. Words (tussenwerpsels: words thrown in) like wel, toch, even, best, lekker, gewoon, er, and verkleinwoordjes which are diminutives. "Ik heb er best wel een beetje zin in gekregen." Untranslatable!
Narrowly followed by the virtue of combining clauses. The Dutch easily say: Hoewel ik ...., ben ik toch ...." (Although I ..., I still went ...) But English speakers more easily says: "I ... Yet, in the end ..." That gives the first sentence too much weight!!
You're wrong about the Frisians!! They are a distinct people with a special culture, their special character traits and worldviews, and .... language!! It is not a dialect of Dutch. It's related to Scottish, I think. Don't insult the Frisians. They are great people. They have open pride. Therefore they are not jealous. And they saved many more of their Jews during WW II than the Hollanders.
"De brief die ik gekregen heb, was veel te lang." sounds perfectly fine to me.
@@MarcoSwartJe hebt gelijk.
Eva,you should try to understand the language they use in "de haag" even dutch people have difficulties to understand, unless you are from,or around the area,you would have fun trying to see how far you will get over there.
Not sure if anybody pointed this out but halen is pronounced haalen ( long A ), maybe i'm picky but it took me seeing it written before I got the meaning ( your ui sounds fine to me ) ( dutch sometimes does that with haal or loop ) where you do halen or lopen in writting but say haalen or loopen.
Afspreken makes sense ( it comes from agreement it means it's the end of the conversation so the conversation is done or af ).
Great video, remember tho that Frisian is a separate language that even comes from a separate branch: Frisian comes from Anglo-Frisian, whereas Dutch comes from Frankonian, and all of this baffles me even more because even tho Dutch and Frisian are separate languages, they are awfully similar
What I was taught is the past participle should always go at the end of the sentence. Note the word "should".
In the decades after WW II there was a strong push to make Dutch as different from German as possible.