Avoiding costly PTO repairs. Clutching before engagement.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
- A walk through our service shop revealed the damage that can be caused by not clutching before engaging your PTO.
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My wife always complains when noise comes from my rear end.
Hopefully you properly clutched her before engagement.
🤣😅😂
Thanks! I asked long ago for more videos like this, and you delivered in spades. More service/mechanical videos please :)
Great video boss 👍, I've been researching tractor videos for about 4 months now and you do a lot of just informational videos that has been so important to a person like me looking to buy a tractor for the first time we inherited 30 acres of land from my father-in-law and we looking to buy one here in Texas so thanks for the time you put in to help us all.
My tractor is a different color but I always enjoy the information you put out on these videos. Thanks and Merry Christmas!
Good video and thanks for the shown n tell. I have a 2014 MX and I added an old style override clutch to the pto like I had on my 53 Ford for different reasons….I understood that adding this cheap part will help reduce wear on the internals.
Still idle down and clutch before engaging or disengaging cuz I know splitting a tractor for repairs is a bank breaker.
Interesting video. I'm surprised/disappointed that the outside of the housing wasn't cleaned before splitting the tractor...looks like an easy route for contamination to enter the transmission.
That's my favorite thing about kubota is that they took notes on parts that worrying incorrectly and the improve it
Good video! Would love to see more of these, dealing with the internals. Is there an equivalent tip for one of the newer "electric over hydraulic" push-button PTO engagement mechanisms? Would it be to always press the PTO button with the engine at lower RPM, then throttle up to PTO speed?
You'll never go wrong pressing at low RPMs. It's not necessary on many of those because they have a hydraulic clutch.
I cringe on my M7060 at an idle. Its real aggressive especially on "E" pto setting due to the higher gear ratio. Really wish there was a hand clutch to engage easy instead of the turn the knob "BANG".
I'm thinking about buying one of those, that's unfortunate it bangs on so hard. Did you have problems with the parking brake too? I've heard the tractor can roll away.
@@Fervor2Germinate With a high inertia pto start up it can be abrupt. I do not like the " park " position as the only brake. I have had it get really hung in park when a high load is on the park pawl. I did have an issue with the initial factory shifting adjustment. I tried to shift into a higher gear it in the middle of the road, and it jambed in park. I could not move it. I had to adjust the linkage and it has been fine since.
@@1958johndeere620 Hey thanks for the reply. I've heard about needing to adjusting the linkage. Thanks for sharing.
Really enjoy getting to see into the guts!
I enjoy this type of videos
I helped a lady mow her pasture a few years back and the guy before me blew that to pieces on a B7610, needless to say it cost her a lot of money.
hey its really interesting how the machines change over the years i own a russian mtz 50 a older one built between 1961-1966 i believe then thy made a redisain and the way they did the 2wd and 4wd the main difference is they have one extra gear in the trans and on a 50 like i have its 2wd and the 52 is 4wd and how they did it is they have a extra gear in the trans and 50 has a blate on the side and 52 has a reductor so you can convert it if you have the gear and dont even need to take the trans out just get the reductor and the driveshaft and the powered front axle so its really easy i believe theres some power steering linkage you need to change but thats little stuff like its made real easy my granpa did ti himself he has a mtz 80 50 and 80 have the same trans and rear axle and he just put the powered axle and the driveshaft on it and has a 82 basically and also russians made one thing better than the americans or anyone out there most things on tractors are based on the same thing lets take a pony motor as an example all russian tractors used the same engine just set up a little different some were started from left like the mtzs and some were started from right and thats it also the hydraulic valves you just flip them upside down and put levers on the other way and you can use it they made everything fit with everything atleast for the most part and they are really strong machines and get alot of power to the ground and my tractor can soposedly lift 2 metric tons with the 3pt hitch if tahts over half the machines weight it ways 3.5 tons might need some weight up front
Great video!!!!! What I really want to know is how to really check my fluids with that tiny sight glass stuffed under the tunnel below my seat on my L2501 LOL. Sometimes I get nervous. Tractors not leaking at it 'looks' full but it really depends on the day, the sun and my vision LOL
My way of doing it on my L2501.
I had the same problem seeing the oil level was to remove the cover over the top of the transmission with the four screws that hold it down and actually treat it like a differential cover and take The plug out to see if the oil comes out.
Excellent video Neal.
Is there a trans strainer on my L3800HST??
Great video. Is there and difference with the electronically engaged PTO?
usually those will have a clutch pack turning on the PTO, different design than this.
So it does not have a independent PTO? If maybe worth explaining the different between. I can see a bunch of people insisting you have to clutch to engage an independent PTO after watching this.
Yes, its independent. some still benefit from clutching.
Should I clutch an M7040 when engaging the PTO? I always throttle don’t to idle first but I don’t always have the clutch pressed.
No need, hydraulic clutch on that one.
I’m confused. My machine (an L4701) doesn’t have a clutch; it’s a hydrostatic machine. I engage the PTO by reducing the engine speed to idle, then pushing/twisting the PTO engagement knob. When the PTO is engaged, I throttle up to 550 rpm and go to work. I disengage by once again reducing the engine speed to idle, then smacking the PTO button to send it to its disengaged position. Is this correct or am I doing something wrong?
Correct. Different mechanical design than this.
I sure wish the automotive manufacturers cared as much about their products as Kubota does about their tractors. Today's cars seem almost disposable, and engines never get the bugs sorted out.
How does clutch work on an older BX 2680 with a lever to engage? I keep thinking it is slipping.
I believe those are wet clutches that is inline, The lever that engages actually brings two gears together. IMO more reliable
This is correct. Most tractors after this generation use a wet clutch.
BX uses a hydraulic clutch pack to engage the PTO. Moving the PTO lever is actually opening a valve to allow hydraulic pressure to the PTO clutch pack.
@@kmac6399 Which if I'm thinking correctly, allows for the PTO components to gradually come up to speed rather than the sudden engagement of other PTO systems, meaning a much longer life and less wear. Also, I think moving the lever slowly to the engaged position gives a more gradual start? With my BX2680 it seems like this is the case, it'll start relatively easy without you really noticing that its engaged, all I have right now is a Roto-Tiller that is PTO operated, there's no sudden jolt, or vibration from the PTO engaging, at low RPM I have to look back and make sure its actually working LOL.
I even lower the engine speed on my commercial mower before engaging the electric blade clutch, cool clutches live longer. Great discussion, thanks!
When my zero turn clutch engages it really lugs my engine down. I have found that if you simultaneously floor the engine while engaging the clutch it doesn’t slam hard or big the engine as the engines governor is giving it full power vs at mid or full rpm where is holding it back from over revving.
@@FishFind3000 Hmm. I think I'd rather lug my engine down than slam that clutch at high revs.
@@paullambert2668 The thing is the crazy hard lug happens at middle rpm or max. If I'm throttling up at the same time as engaging the blades there's almost no change in engine rpm or noise since the governor is not cutting the throttle back.
It's a synchronized motion that makes it the easiest on my machine. The way I go is from idle to full throttle in one motion and as I get to half throttle I click the PTO so the deck is engaging at half throttle but cant stall my engine like it try's to when my rpm is held constant at half throttle and then engaging the deck before throttling up.
Its nice to know that a manufacturer listens to the problems whether big of small.
Thanks for this video Neil! Thanks for all your videos! I always use my clutch but now I know "why" I'm supposed to use my clutch. I like to know the "why." Keep them coming!!!
I just went through this with my 2001 L3710 HST cab. The mechanic showed me the exact same piece. I hope I got the newly improved part. It was no fun seeing my pristine, like new condition 21 year old tractor broken into 3 big parts. Close to $3k to split it because of the cab. The mechanic recommended engaging the PTO at low idle to reduce wear.
exactly the same setup as this one.
💥 Thanks for showing us how that all comes together. I love there type of videos.
*Keep on tractoring!*
Can you do an explanation for the electric pto like in my mx5400? I always wince when I engage the pto. Feels like it hits hard even at low rpm.
I'll have to watch for one that's opened up. That's a little different than this.
Wondering the same thing. For pure electric, there isn't much you can do but lower the RPM as far as possible. Not as certain about the electric over hydraulic that many tractors have, though.
@@MessicksEquip that would be awesome
I have Mx 6000, even at low idle, I can shear a pto shear pin on rotary cutter.
Does your MX5400 have a clutch pedal? My MX5200 has a clutch and I fully depress it before engaging the PTO. I also keep the revs down, around 1000 RPM.
$250 in parts $2500 in labor, how many hours on that tractor? Thanks
These type video’s are fantastic.
These are good videos too show tractor owners . The newer electric pto switch with hydraulic clutch ptos have brakes that can be damaged by turning off a wood chipper / bush hog / flail mower and just about anything that winds up too high momentum and takes time too wind down . Shutting off the pto before full wind down can take out the break stop on the disc . Also engaging at high speed warp the clutch disc from over heating . Would be good if you could do a proper video on engagement and disengagement on these type ptos 👍
I always engage and disengage the PTO at low RPM, there's no reason to have the engine speed any higher to engage or disengage....the only thing I'm not understanding from what you are saying is the winding down of an implement, its not going to wind down with the PTO spinning, and it'll continue to wind down after the PTO is disengaged, there's no way around that I don't think.
@@wildbill23c When the engine rpm is down all the way that’s correct . The brake is designed too stop the attachment from turning at that lower speed . But lots of people don’t wait and shut the pto off at high speed thinking the hydraulic brake is ok too use like that . In a emergency yes but constantly no . I see it all the time . Because it’s just a switch and thinking it’s hydraulic relief it’s ok but there hammering the brake disc inside slowly damaging it .
Clutching before engagement sounds like a bathroom issue
Hi Neil - great video once again! Very informative with clear explanations of how the parts work, where they are located and what can be done to ensure longevity!
That was very interesting, thanks for showing that
So if we don’t have a clutch on our tractor, just starting the PTO at slow RPM is the only thing we can do? I already do this but just making sure there’s nothing else I can do
Correct, different design than this regardless... but throttling down is best.
@@MessicksEquip my tractor is from the 90’s, there’s no changing the design now. But ok thanks
Great info, Neil! I’ve never seen that much detail about how the PTO actually works.
I own a M7070 and when I engage the pto, it really hits hard. I always throttle down, but it doesn't make any difference. Its a live pto so the clutch doesnt disengage the pto.
Hydraulic pto, different design.
Great to see the internals of the PTO engagement. This video was so close to helping me out! I have a L2900 PTO that will not disengage and I was hoping your video would highlight why that would happen. It would seem that when I move my PTO lever to 'disengage', the arm on the transmission would rotate the engagement dog shaft away from the other one. If mine isn't doing that, what does the arm on the transmission connect to inside the case that would have failed? Do you have any videos on that or method to repair? Thank you!
Great video.
Great demonstration and explanation, Neill!!!👍
Can someone tell me the name of the two pieces he's talking about for the first 4 minutes and 30 seconds?
Exactly why I like the clutch on a Lxx01 verses the new clutchless Lxx02 !
I never started my mower without stepping on the clutch first and s l o w l y bringing it up to speed. Saves the PTO and gives you time in case something else is wrong.
The clutch less designs allows the same thing to be accomplished simply by engaging with the engine at lower RPM. The electric design itself ramps pressure up gradually (hydraulics are used to engage the plates).
I have watched your videos for a few years, last week I was able to pass by your new store. That was a treat to see. I spent my childhood summers down in Gap area on my grandparents fruit farm. I now live in Idaho.
Always nice to have visitors. Stop if you have time.
Neil, I have no clue what it would cost to split a tractor. Is that a $500 or $5000 job?
$500-$5000 is about right :-). It can vary quite a bit. On these smaller tractors its a full days job for an experienced tech, we also split large farm tractors, those take a lot more time.
👍😁👨🚒
Neal, how does the weight of a sprayer or hydraulic pump affect the pto shaft and seals? We just slide on pumps and really don't think about the weight of it on the shaft. Should these pumps be supported somehow? Maybe this will prevent premature wear of the seals or possibly bending the shaft?
Never seen the inside view like this before! Is that how they do it on all sizes of tractor, or just the smaller ones? I understand the bigger ones have electro-hydraulic engagement and such- just talking about the "clutch" parts.
Great video thanks very much outstanding presentation and information, the pinion bearings on my lawn sweeper use the same kind of mechanism, which I have just recently replaced now I understand the process much better thanks again
Is clutching during PTO engagement something that should be done with recent L2501?
Great video. I think you need more light to show what you’re trying to explain. Thanks.
larger and more deluxe tractors have a clutch pack and you do not have to push your clutch in, need to know what you have and read your operators manual
Great to see that you are on top of your game. Great video thank you Neil! 🤠
Excellent info.
Thanks for sharing.
Great information thanks Neil and merry Christmas to all.
What about those tractors with hydrostatic transmissions and with nothing more than a button to push/pull to engage the PTO? Same issue? Idle the engine, engauge the PTO then bring everything up to the rated engine speed for 540rpm speed? Great video! Love what your doing.
most of those have clutch packs doing the engagement, but its always best to throttle down first.
When you say pressing the clutch will help with the wear some tractors like my 1994 L 2900 The PTO is not controlled by the clutch so it continues to turn independently even if you put the clutch in so is that type of transmission different?
Yes.
That looks like one expensive repair!
nice view inside Thanks!
Anybody else running their 3 point from outside the cab while logging - and doesn't clutch the 3 point before engaging? Will have to try sitting in the seat, engaging the 3 point with the clutch, then getting out of the cab and flipping the seat before the engine shuts down. Seems a bit tricky to me as a thought experiment. Anybody else operating the 3 point from outside the cab? How do you do what Neil is telling us we need to be doing? Thanks for some suggestions.
On my B2601 I'm always operating the chipper from outside the tractor (no cab, but same principle). It also clogs reasonably frequently, so I disengage, clear it, reengage. But I think it's a hydraulic clutch, it doesn't seem to slam in like I'd imagine that L would if I did the same.
(Tip for new players - I once decided I could clear the chipper chute from the top without turning it off. That's a really bad idea, your fingers can reach the blades. Thought I was gonna lose my whole hand.....but was only a broken finger tip. Rather wear my PTO clutch out than cut off my fingers)
After seeing this, I’m surprised my brush hog with all its momentum follows the engine when majorly throttling down - instead of slipping internally. L3200.
Your engine doesn't have enough torque when idling down to break the friction in that clutch mechanism. If your engine was off and the pto was still spinning and you tried engaging it then I'm sure you would hear it.
I have an L3901HST, and my dealer told me to let the engine come to an idle, push the clutch, engage the pto, let the clutch out, and then bring it up to op speed. Is that correct?
Yes
What about those of us with a b2650 that has no clutch. I pretty much always start my pto at idle but again it has no clutch to disengage
Yes, start at idle.
2 questions. How many hours is that repair?
I have an L6060 hydro. So no clutch, I lower the RPM when engaging the PTO but I have to assume there is some sort of "clutching " going on on these???
Yes, that has a clutch pack. 3000ish hours if I remember right?
@@MessicksEquip ooh sorry, by hours I meant how many hours does that repair call for? Looks like a very spendy repair.
Thanks. I learned much from this video. I have a new L4701. Don't have a clutch. What is the solution for this issue with my tractor?
throttle down before engaging.
@@MessicksEquip What I thought. Thanks.
Is that also an overrunning clutch as well?
Yes.
Interesting video Neil. When I think of a clutch I'm thinking of something similar to the clutch on a manual transmission equipped truck, or car, where you have actual friction material...interesting to know that isn't always the case in a tractor's transmission.
When I did the 50 hour service on my Kubota BX2680 this past summer, I went ahead and changed the hydraulic fluid as well, and pulled that strainer out, I was quite surprised how clean it was, after watching several service videos on the BX series and quite a few showing a pretty plugged up screen, I was surprised when mine came out very clean. The fluid itself wasn't very dark but figured at 50 hours since I was servicing everything else I'd change the hydraulic fluid too and switched over to the UDT-2 fluid. Should be good to go for a while now. In the year and a half I've had my BX2680 I've only put 62 hours on it, but it has saved me so much time and manual labor in the short time I've had it. Looking at getting it over to the dealership and having the 3rd function valve and rear remotes added for some upcoming attachment purchases, and planning on getting a hydraulic top link here soon so the remote in the back will be needed for that function. Trying to plan to get the tractor in on the off-season so hopefully I'll get it back sooner than later.