in addition to the aroace erasure, a friend and i were especially upset by the fact that the show offered us a disabled werewolf and then took her back almost right away.
I didn't like Enid wolfing out in the last episode. Enid had werewolf powers (the painted claws and super strength), she was a werewolf regardless. I would have loved it if Enid had come to Wednesdays defence and fought the Hyde with her nails and super strength alone, no wolfing out needed.
It was also a blood moon. The strongest effecting moon on Lycans. Asking her to not fully wolf out is like asking a healthy/normal female never to get her period.
She could even be more of an intersex stand-in, which would have been the closest analogue. It would have been perfect if all she gets is nails growing longer and realizing she does get stronger in the full moon. She does not transform as visibly, but she didn't need a medical intervention to be a whole functional wolf.
I would have preferred they reversed the paradigm, where werewolves start out in wolf form and assume human form in order to fit in with social normativity. The camp should have been something imposed on the character, not by parents who are also werewolves, but by a society that wants to force them to fit in by erasing anything that makes them special. I think that's a much better queer allegory.
33:17 shipping is a whole can of worms. Like I get why allo queer people see homoerotisism in certain characters, and I get why they want confirmation of that so they can have actual gay rep, but as an aroace....eh. Aces really do get shunted by the rest of the community. Cuz when I see characters like Arthur and Merlin, Dean and Cas, Crowley and Aziraphale, it reads to me as so obviously queerplatonic. And I hate the insistence that if something isn't explicitly confirmed as homosexual then that means it isn't queer. The VAST majority of people, even queer people constantly discount or ignore ace, aro, or queerplatonic relationships and I'm so sick of it. Those relationships ARE queer and you aren't losing out of rep if your faves aren't confirmed gay. Oh yeah, and the Addams were weirdly not okay with muder?
to be fair, as an ace grayro, I ship Arthur and Merlin and I see Aziraphale and Crowley as non sexual but romantic partners. trust me, I understand queerplatonic relationships lol, im in one. on the other hand, Wednesday is absolutly aroace and all the shipping in that show seems forced. I think sometimes it is allo queer people ignoring stuff like that (especially allo people w/ ineffable husbands) but not always. I think enid and wednesday would be great qpr rep cause those relationships are so important, I just dont think enough non aro/ace people know ab them :/ to add onto that regarding az and crowley, most queer people view them as nonbinary/ w/out gender and i think that reducing them to gay isnt totally accurate. I hope this doesnt come off as hostile this is just my view :)
@@olliewithab1926 I also think Wednesday is very aroace and that her and Enid would make a cute qpr. I highly doubt anyone in the mainstream media would ever do that tho. And Merlin and Arthur have a very good case for being in a relationship. Some of the actors n stuff have legit said that what they have is a love story and enjoy the ship a lot. (They producers would never allow it tho.) I remember an interview with Morgana's actor and someone else talking about it. Also, sometimes the lines between romance or whatever is kinda messy, and relationships might not fit perfectly into one definition. So I'm not really upset at people shipping characters I think are queerplatonic, I just don't like when they say queerplatonic relationships aren't real, or aren't actually queer, or aren't a genuine partnership. I don't like when folks consider attraction or romance as the be all end all for what makes something queer. 🤷 As for Crowley and Az, I wouldn't really consider it reducing per se. I'm genderqueer and if I was in a partnership with another genderqueer person, I'd personally consider it gay since we would have the same identity. That's just me tho. I can see why someone else might not use that term for it.
I mean they gay baited the hell out of Dean and Cas for i think at least a decade and then the wildly ridiculous love confession at the end was the cherry on top of the gaybaiting pie. Thing is I don't expect the writers of Supernatural to have intended the aroace reading, i would be surprised if they were even aware of it, they were too busy baiting with the homoerotic reading between them. So I don't blame fans getting invested in that dynamic, since the writers were clearly dangling hints throughout. For reference I watched the show eons ago, but stopped the plot kinda lost me and I don't personally ship them. So then I would catch bits and pieces that escaped the fandom, since I intersect some shipping spaces from time to time, especially the end because it was kind of inescapable the memes were kinda everywhere. Don't know much about Arthur/Merlin, save for it exists and there's a gay ship that never sailed in canon. I can see your reading of Aziraphale/Crowley though, plus it nicely ties in the reaction to the kiss, which felt really really weird, the kiss not the reaction.
@@willowarkan2263 Ya I'm pretty sure MOST writers never intend it in a queer way. It's always seems like something they did accidentally. I stopped watching Supernatural around season 11, but I'm pretty sure the confession thing was because of how much people shipped them. I mean Cas wasn't even supposed to be a regular. He was gonna get killed off after a season but the audience liked him too much so they kept him. Merthur was never canon, but even the actors liked them together. The showrunners didn't like it tho so it never happened. And the AziCrow kiss definitely felt they only did it to prove something. Less of a character choice and more of a director choice.
Its been a year now & we expected more wednesday addams but now we have more tv shows with acezuak themes . Plus harry potter . Which as the story will go. At first harry potter in a glacevseems asexual . But ends up in cuppa tea british definition
I hope Wednesday doesn't become more like Morticia if they make more seasons, but I also feel like that's kind of how they set it up... Typically, Hollywood tries to give their main characters some kind of internal character arc, like they have to "learn" something and then change by the end of the story. The better compromise would be to make Wednesday realize that she likes having close friends who she can rely on. She was legitimately distressed when Thing was dying, and she visited her bee keeper friend in the hospital. So that could have been a wake up call for her that she DOES actually care about friends/family, and needs them in her life. But the concern I have is that in season two the show will push Wednesday's character arc further into desiring romantic/sexual relationships... Which I would HHAAAATTEE.
I share your concern, but it wouldn't be diverging from the classical Wednesday character - just watch "Season 2 episode 11 - Fued in the Addams Family". So f they give her an arc where she pursuit romance I would be fine with it, but hopefully they do it a bit subtle, because if it get to much focus it would be distasteful.
I feel like "young girl is a vicisious sadist and her family treats it as adorable" is a subversion. "young boy is a vicisious sadist and his family treats it as adorable" is a reflection of current societal norms (and priviledge, given that they are rich) and I don't think Netflix and Tim Burton are brave enough to go there. Also, if they did "Tim Burton's Puglsy" Pugsly would just be a Tim Burton self insert, and no one wants to watch that...
Honestly, it just felt like the typical "teenage girl doesn't know she actually wants to shed her entire personality for a guy" plot to me. But then other moments were "how would you know to say that without talking to aromantic people about being aromantic?" The irony for me is that I didn't see Wednesday as arospec at all until I watched the show, and now I do, and I was queerbaited (not by the drag show, I didn't know about that until after I watched it, but by the early hints of queer rep without any actual pay off). And I'm conflicted, because I genuinely enjoyed a solid 90% of the show, and am intrigued on where it goes. But I also don't want to watch a character I relate to slowly lose everything that makes her herself before ending up with a generic guy.
As soon as they started leaning into Wednesday feeling some type of romance towards that bland coffee shop boy I started checking out. I was like, nope that ruined this for me. No thanks. Also Enid and Wednesday had zero romantic chemistry, so no thanks to that too. I'm usually one to ship something if I see some on-screen chemistry or some hints (yes, I fall for the queerbaiting every time😓) but even I was like, nah they're good buddies and that's it. The conversion therapy...omg I was so confused. This would have worked if Enid was the only one in the family who was a werewolf and the parents gave her a brochure to a conversion therapy to NOT "wolf out" lol, then that scene would have made more sense, but as it is, it's just ??? The whole show was disappointing to be honest.
Yess so much queer erasure and lack of black or asian characters but I think my biggest gripe of all was the lack of disabled characters. That school was for "outcasts" and I cannot think of a setting that would have been more appropriate in terms of the way disabled people are often treated societally. Like even just a kid in a wheelchair in the background, heck you could even make it part of their "monster" character such as a naga or a siren/mer character that can't switch to a human form. All we had was Enid who ended up just being a "late bloomer".
In talking about this episode with my partner I realised a running joke on the Addams family was that the kids do things to horrify the townsfolk and the parents would be proud of them for doing so. But the premise of the new show is that Wednesday is sent away for misbehaving. That doesn't make sense except as a poorly thought out way to get her into a high school clique situation
The parents wouldn't transfer her to a new school, it's just that her former school expelled her so she needs to get education somewhere else. Nevermore is the perfect school for her, she can do whatever n low chances to be expelled, that's why her parents sent her away
@@GyaruLokal I guess that is true. The whole show still feels out of character for the Addams family though. Like a Harry Potter spinoff that happens to feature Wednesday Addams.
I'm definitely going to be upset if Wednesday doesn't turn out aroace, but it already seems like they're going that route... a Wenclair QPR would be adorable and perfect!
I'm glad to finally hear a review of Wenesday that questioning the aro/ace side of this tv show. I interpreted Enid's story as a (failed) asexual conversion therapy allegory and Wednesday as aro/ace (she's not even with one of her love interest at the end of the show !) I thought I was the only one and apparently I'm not (not really). It's so good to hear someone who have the same opinion I felt alone with all the Enid x Wednesday's shippers (no hate to them) ! So, well, thank you very much for that and thank you to be here I'm gonna explore your channel x)
25:45 if that was what they were thinking of then I'd hate it even more. Like sooooo much. Werewolves are some of the most queer monsters there are. Like the trans allegory is right there. And for them to make it like wolfing out is the normal and typical thing just grinds my gears. This video honestly reminds me of all the things I didn't like. Wednesday being the perfect aroace character but they probably won't do that. The weird tone-deaf things with race. Like Morticia literally says at one point that "someone like you could never understand what it's like to not be believed" which I think was about womanhood but she said it to a black man. Like... I'm pretty sure a black man in America also knows a thing or to about not being believed. I also just hate the way they talk and the dialogue was so dumb. It felt like pandering honestly. Wednesday was pretty stupid when it came to decision making to. Like with that one kid that was so obviously framed. Oh! And another thing was how people kept getting on Wednesday for supposedly being awful and cold when most of the things they attributed to that were common things among autistic people. The list goes on.
Wendell & Wild successfully did all the things that Wednesday failed at. It's well written with fully developed characters and good queer representation. The story somewhat similar too, wouldn't surprise me if Tim Burton ripped it off, along with ripping of Harry Potter and Mean Girls.
Another series that successfully pulled off the things that Wednesday failed at (well written & developed characters + good queer rep) is The Bastard Son and The Devil Himself. Sadly, both Bastard Son and Wendell & Wild got basically no promo from Netflix.
I would have handled the werewolf character very differently. In my own stories, the wolf is considered their true form, and the human form is a guise they assume to fit in with normative society. Staying in human form too long makes them uncomfortable, which is why some choose not to fit in at all, regardless of how much society fears them. Since werewolves are shapeshifters associated with nature, which is constantly in flux, they feel most at home in places where they can change as often as they want. In other words, my werewolves are a trans allegory. I suppose this is consistent with the many other missed opportunities of the series you mentioned.
Okay so I actually really enjoyed the show and loved the platonic friendship between Wednesday and Enid. I read the werewolf change as her protectiveness for Wednesday is what triggered the change. Why I did see Enid as a queer coded character she's literally a walking rainbow it's sad they didn't do anything like that with her But god did I hate the how love triangle was. I honestly posted about how much I disliked Xavier as a character and how I hated the way they tried to write their relationship and I got so many replies saying it was "sexually tension” which is weird.
For Wednesday i agree she is def ace . But enid could be bi. She's screaming bi. Maybe it would be cool if enid fell in love with Wednesday and both at the same time explored their sexualities so they end up not together. But both going through this together
thank you! the conversian therapy part irked me so bad when I saw the show and I haven't seen anyone else talk about how weird it was! like if you are going to offend us at least make the metaphor make sense!!!!
Fun fact: My octoling oc is named after Pugsley's pet octo Aristotle. Her name is Aris Otto (it was Ari Star Tole but that didn't really roll off the tongue. lol). Also I want more qpr rep in stuff. I don't have Netflix so I can't watch the show but I love The Addams Family. I've been a fan for ages. I've got the original series on DVD. When I heard in a clip Wedenesday say "I'm never going to fall in love" my brain went straight to aroace and it was something I suddenly wanted. Then a coworker said she had not one but two love interests and my heart sank. Bluh. I want a main lady lead who doesn't have a romantic interest at all. If she isn't into it I don't want the story to force it so she "feels more human" or whatever because I know where that inevedably leads. bluh.
Y’all might like the animated film from the 2010s if you wanna see more Pugsley. And God, the idea of a series around Fester definitely... Festered in my mind now, thanks for that.
I think part of why Wednesday gets so much more attention in Addams family media (and fandom) isn't just because of her recognizable branding, but also because Pugsley isn't seen as "conventionally attractive" being a fat boy. I always enjoyed his dynamic with Wednesday, his fun antics, and the way he brought a unique perspective to the family, and as much as I think being fat doesn't make you less appealing as a character, there's a very real bias in fans and studios that might be shining through. Giving him his own show would mean putting a young fat actor in the spotlight, and the cynical part of me thinks that that was seen as too risky and unappealing of a choice to make.
Don't worry all. I'm sure Enid, Bee Boy & and definitely any new second season character will become/are LGBT. I mean Wednesday will probably visit Enid in San Francisco for crying out loud. Why not Thing? He loves manicures. I also agree the whole conversion camp pamphlet scene fell flat. It only works if Enid doesn't want wolf out or become a normie. Yeah, the whole ancestry thing seems weird. Goody Addams is "a Mexican ancestor" yet looks like a blonde Scandinavian (yes I know she played by the hispanic JO). In the orginal adaptations of TAF they had witch ancestors on both sides. So that could explain her being an Addams instead of a Frump which is Mortisha's maiden name.
I definitely Wednesday as Aroace. buuut i am also a hopeless romantic and one of my favorite pairings is what i call "Parrot and Raven" so i kinda like the ship
I've just finished watching the show and it's...really not worth the hype for me . The love triangle thing was so boring,I really don't want Wednesday to be in a relationship with anyone tbh including Enid,I do ship them,but only really in a strong platonic sense . The werewolf conversion therapy thing I agree was weirdly done,it didn't seem to make sense and the queer metaphors were often just throwaway lines rather than actual representation We need to see more ace and aro people on screen because there are too many misconceptions about it .
I have a lot of opinions on the show, and these are just the ones I thought of because of this video. Enid defiantly didn't get the love and care she deserved for her werewolf storyline, I know they wanted to make her seem like an outcast *2 because she wasn't able to "wolf out" like the rest of her family and was afraid of becoming ostracized and made to be a lone wolf. If they wanted to make it a better metaphor for sexuality or identity, they could have shown that she was afraid of not meeting the standards of the rest of the community, but then shown her family as being loving and supportive of her whether or not she was able to transform, pushing it into an internal conflict and possibly even a story of self acceptance. From the get go, it was clear she would eventually "wolf out" and it would when she absolutely needed to, but they could have had her use her intelligence in order to save Wednesday rather than forcing this shallow and half hearted resolution that is really predictable. I had a huge problem with the love triangle, I think they could have used it to really push an uncomfortable situation that Wednesday has to learn to navigate with her not being interested in romance or dating,. We did get to see a little bit of that like with her asking Xavier to the Raven in order to monitor him, or telling Tyler they were going on a date in order to get him to drive her to the mansion. I feel like they could have shown her being really repulsed by the idea of dating while still holding space for these intimate friendships. I feel they also could have used Tyler being manipulated by Thornhill as a way to put more romantic pressure on Wednesday, allowing her to really state firmly that she doesn't want that and that she doesn't see anyone in that way, but instead they wasted a lot of time trying to push this love triangle that doesn't even really work because of the level of distain she seems to have towards Xavier the entire series until the very end. The fact that the plot line where she plans to go to the dance with Xavier to keep an eye on him is completely thrown out the window when Tyler shows up it her door is super off-putting as well, Wednesday is not a shy person and when she is on a mission she sticks to it, I feel that she wouldn't have just abandoned her original plan just to avoid a conflict. There are a lot things that I personally feel like they fumbled; like her ancestor being an Addams, I remember talking to my s.o. about how that was strange, the issue where her family just dropped her off then didn't resurface until they were needed for the plot, brushing past her admittance to the school and how everyone else in attendance has some sort of power, as well as just hinting at character development for a majority of the cast then trying to shoehorn it in wherever they could. When I first watched the show I questioned their decision in focusing solely on Wednesday, I think they could have had a lot more fun and done something more imaginative and immersive, like focusing on a different family member for each season or episode and having those storylines intertwine. Doing something like that would give them so much more opportunity to develop the entire family as well as any supporting characters, as well as call backs to previous episodes or seasons.
I didn't saw Enid as aroace coded, just badly gay coded but Wednesday is for me very aroace coded. And I do ship them together, but not in romantic way. Like I would love to them to be in qpr Also i may be wrong, but I think that it was a collaboration? So it was aired not only on Netflix do maybe that was the reason for the previously?
I would just like too say, as someone who was in the group of people who were really into/hyped about the series before it even came out, the series / Wednesday and Enid relationship gained a lot of traction because of the shippers and edits made before hand and what i remember the marketing was sort of made in a way to hint at their relationship
sorry but no one wants a pugsley show lmao, I wish Wednesday was better but not pugsley please. there are so many smart inventor boy characters out there already
I had fun watching Wednesday seeing her through an aroace lense until it was unfortunately not cannon and that aroace psychopath girl boss is all I’ll ever get out of the series
Haven't watched the show yet, but mentioned the queerbaiting to a coworker who got into a (friendly) argument with me about it. She's challenging what evidence do we have that Wednesday was ever AroAce. I tried to cite scenes from the 90s movies, but coworker insists this Wednesday is based on the original 60s show, in which she was a child who didn't show an orientation yet. Therefore AroAces are making assumptions based on incomplete information. Does my coworker's argument have merit?
Regarding the failed werewolf allegory, you two (and many others) were struggling to find a real-world example that Edith's issues could have been better compared to. I thought of one. Her parents' view of her inability to wolf out could be seen as them forcing a change on her so she is what her parents believe to be more 'biologically' correct. Perhaps this could be compared to how intersex people are often treated. Doctors and parents think they need to 'fixed' to be more 'biologically' correct.
I think that's a stretch and a half to think that Burton was thinking of intersex people in that moment. Do you immediately think it's zebras when you hear hoof beats, too?
@@thekarret2066 That's not what I said at all. The podcast hosts were trying to come with better real-world examples the show COULD have used in their allegory that would have made a bit more sense. I just suggested one. (I have added "I thought of one" to the first sentence in case it wasn't clear enough.)
@@mudling Ah. Gotcha. I still think it's giving the writers too much credit, from the sounds of things, they seem to have made it like a normie's perspective of what "outcasts"/ "darkly inclined" folks are like. I doubt they'd have even thought of intersex folks. I wouldn't try going to extra effort to make them seem like they're actually really smart on some LGBT shit, when it looks pretty obvious that they were just grabbing at a superficial phrase they know is bad like they did something clever, when the 00s X-Men movies already did it and it actually made sense.
It's interesting to hear your opinion on the Werwolf conversion camp. Because to me it was perfectly implementing how weird the concept of a camp like that is! "Sending a queer person to conversion and expecting them to become cishet is like forcing a werewolf to go somewhere trying to change the way they are a werewolf" (I hope you understand what I am trying to say, English isn't my first language) Also that Enid was able to transform to a werewolf at the end was because she had to protect Wednesday. So it was her love to her giving her this new stage of being a werewolf (if platonic or romantic doesn't matter to me. Because either way it is just a proof for their strong connection) I also disagree very hard about the thing with the two moms. I mean they being casually put in there is just a way of showing how normal it is. Being represented doesn't always need to be the center point of everything. Sometimes little things are the way to show the queer normative in life. And all that about the black characters just went completely over my head. Perhaps because I grew up in an environment where skincolor doesn't really matter. So I am confused why it is bad that they played those characters?
The werewolf conversion camp thing would only work if she COULD transform or whatever and her parents were trying to send her to a conversion camp to NOT be able to transform. This was more like... sending a legitimately cishet person to a cishet camp that brings out their cishet-ness, which was already going to happen anyway. Also - when they advertised the show in such an LGBT way [doing the drag race thing], it gives off an expectation that the LGBT rep would be much more pronounced than the "Disney's first gay couple" in a blink-and-you-miss-it moment. Also also - on its own, there's nothing wrong with it... but Burton hasn't almost any black characters before that had any plot relevance, so when he hasn't done that in his career, and the so far only time he has, he portrays them as seductive, but also manipulative and corrupt and the antagonists..... it looks bad on his ability to write black characters.
You probably will never read this but I have to disagree with you here 29:06. I’m aroace myself, I don't fall in love or have crushes, I don't experience limerence. Romantic attraction is limerence not love but passion and desire, but as an aro, I have still emotional needs or interests including romantic ones. Limerence is a state of mind that don't last, that's why we're told that "love last three years." But as a married couple, I'm sure you understand that long-term commitment must be based on more durable emotions than limerence/romantic attraction to sustain itself. As a cupioromantic, I'm interested in engaging myself in a romantic relationship in the future and I observed that alloromantic long-term relationships rest upon platonic love like tenderness, akin to friendship and familial love just like queer platonic relationships. For me, there is no really difference between QPR and long-term romance. In fact a lot of allos I know in stable long-term relationships described the aftermath of the the three first years full of a passion as a transition to a love similar to a deep friendship. This is why, IRL aromantics can end up in couple like my closest friend who is also aroace and is in a long term relationship with her boyfriend. So I disagree that good aro representation means automatically celibacy. Being reduced to "the one who's single or is destined to stay single all their life" is depressing and for me at least arophobic - like it's not up to you to seek what you want because you're lacking the ability to choose. There is a deep misunderstanding of what love is to expect some psychological determinism can prevent aros to engage themselves in relationships. And it also expects all alloromantics to have a love life and that alloromantic celibates could not be happy, which is also demeaning. Sure being in a relationship, living with someone, sharing intimacy is not a easy choice of life, it's demanding and compromising. Like having children or any life engagement. That's why people chose to remain single or childless, ect... And limerence can be a good motivation to start a relationship but when the limerence disapears, it's hard for the couple to transit to a long-term relationship. But celibacy remains a choice nonetheless, I will make no compromise about it. However, I’m the first to not be thrilled by Hollywood's tendency to always put superficial romance as a shortcut to emotional relationships between characters. I want them to explore more platonic relationships but for everyone in the spectrum, not just the aces. For me the aroaces characters aren't here to play the celibate stand-in that shows the rest that you can live without a partner, everyone can understand that and with alloromantic and allosexual characters. So no, I don't see a romance as something that can erase an entire side of the ace spectrum. I didn’t like Wednesday being in a love triangle with Tyler and Thorpe and I’m not a Enid/Wednesday shipper because of Wednesday’s personality, not vibes about her sexual orientation. And also because none of these characters have chemistry.
"Asexuality is often abbreviated as ace, a phonetic shortening of asexual, and the community as a whole is likewise referred to as the ace community. Despite lacking sexual attraction, some asexuals might engage in purely romantic relationships, while others may not." -your loving friend, google also some aces use the ace of hearts as a symbol for ace with a romantic lean and the ace of spades as a symbol for aro/ace, so there's the card suit angle as well
It's just because "ace" is a preexisting term for other things, including as a slang term to call something good, that sounds the same as the beginning of the word "asexual" so it makes a good shortening
I'm sorry but the premise of this critique is such bullshit. If you want the story told exactly the way you want it told, you're going to have to write that story yourself - not wait for some writers that aren't like you to write specifically for you. We all want representation, we all should get it, but this show never promised you an aromantic storyline.
@@Hugo-G Sounds like it was kinda shit, tbh. Sounds like boring, basic normie shit - like what a normie thinks darkly inclined or outcast folks enjoy. Because Burton is Hollywood's "darkly inclined guy" even though he's been a shitty director and writer for the movies he's made the past couple of decades, and the main shit he was involved in that was good, he was mostly just the art director [which is definitely his lane, he really shines well with the visuals... but that's it; he can't write for shit].
Or maybe directors and writers could think a little bit more about the messages they send out when damn near ALL media requires that to "humanize" a character, they give them a love interest. SO sorry you have to think about what that kind of messaging does to people who have no interest in romance or sex. Maybe if you'd been made aware of it before, you'd be able to see how this is more of a "oh god, don't do this AGAIN to YET ANOTHER CHARACTER" complaint instead of a "You better do it my way or I'm going to flip shit and raise hell" complaint.
I really liked the show and I definitely don't think it's racist. Actually I didn't even once think about the colour of anyone's skin or their sexuality when I was watching it. 🙂 I'm glad they didn't go all woke on this show and just cast the people who were talented and needed for the roles. I'm sick of shows needing to 'represent' everyone and even when they do they still get crapped on for it as it's not the 'right' representation. But none the less, it was interesting to hear your thoughts and opinions on this show even if I disagree with most of it.
The show sounds like typical Burton trash he keeps churning out. But by him having the Addams Family be Latino and some main antagonists black, he's already trying to be woke, he just sucks at it because he doesn't know how to write interesting POC characters. He's honestly not a great writer OR director. He's good with the art direction and aesthetics and people think that makes him qualified to direct or write shit, but he's trash at it and has been for decades now. His clique of more talented friends elevate his trash to mediocrity. Also -- if someone does a piss poor job of representing a different type of character, that should be called out, and also instead of the same handful of bland, stock caricatures, it's refreshing to see stories of characters from different backgrounds and identities; a true challenge for someone who considers themselves a serious director that few actually seem interested in trying out, in favor of those bland, cardboard cut outs they call "characters". I'm personally tired of seeing the same shit after the same shit after the same shit. It's old, boring and trite. Regardless of the "muh representation" aspect of wanting diverse characters.... diverse characters - _well-made_ diverse characters - can make a show really engaging to expand your world of possibilities beyond those bland, tired ass same old stock stereotypes parading around in skin to be called a "character".
It didn't have to be a week old - I heard Burton was directing it and knew it would be trash because he can't direct for shit. He's good for the aesthetics and that's it. He can't write plots or make compelling characters and hasn't been able to for decades now. He's just Hollywood's go-to "darkly inclined" dude, even though he's piss poor at what they made his job. idk if it's a massive ego problem, or if he knows he's put in this awkward position and just doesn't know how to do better .... but I feel like it's probably the former; if I knew I was terrible at something, I would ask a more competent writer/director to help bring the stories to life while I focus on doing what I'm good at.
in addition to the aroace erasure, a friend and i were especially upset by the fact that the show offered us a disabled werewolf and then took her back almost right away.
I didn't like Enid wolfing out in the last episode. Enid had werewolf powers (the painted claws and super strength), she was a werewolf regardless. I would have loved it if Enid had come to Wednesdays defence and fought the Hyde with her nails and super strength alone, no wolfing out needed.
It was also a blood moon. The strongest effecting moon on Lycans. Asking her to not fully wolf out is like asking a healthy/normal female never to get her period.
Okay that would have been pretty cool
She could even be more of an intersex stand-in, which would have been the closest analogue. It would have been perfect if all she gets is nails growing longer and realizing she does get stronger in the full moon. She does not transform as visibly, but she didn't need a medical intervention to be a whole functional wolf.
I would have preferred they reversed the paradigm, where werewolves start out in wolf form and assume human form in order to fit in with social normativity. The camp should have been something imposed on the character, not by parents who are also werewolves, but by a society that wants to force them to fit in by erasing anything that makes them special. I think that's a much better queer allegory.
33:17 shipping is a whole can of worms. Like I get why allo queer people see homoerotisism in certain characters, and I get why they want confirmation of that so they can have actual gay rep, but as an aroace....eh. Aces really do get shunted by the rest of the community. Cuz when I see characters like Arthur and Merlin, Dean and Cas, Crowley and Aziraphale, it reads to me as so obviously queerplatonic. And I hate the insistence that if something isn't explicitly confirmed as homosexual then that means it isn't queer. The VAST majority of people, even queer people constantly discount or ignore ace, aro, or queerplatonic relationships and I'm so sick of it. Those relationships ARE queer and you aren't losing out of rep if your faves aren't confirmed gay.
Oh yeah, and the Addams were weirdly not okay with muder?
to be fair, as an ace grayro, I ship Arthur and Merlin and I see Aziraphale and Crowley as non sexual but romantic partners. trust me, I understand queerplatonic relationships lol, im in one. on the other hand, Wednesday is absolutly aroace and all the shipping in that show seems forced. I think sometimes it is allo queer people ignoring stuff like that (especially allo people w/ ineffable husbands) but not always. I think enid and wednesday would be great qpr rep cause those relationships are so important, I just dont think enough non aro/ace people know ab them :/ to add onto that regarding az and crowley, most queer people view them as nonbinary/ w/out gender and i think that reducing them to gay isnt totally accurate. I hope this doesnt come off as hostile this is just my view :)
@@olliewithab1926 I also think Wednesday is very aroace and that her and Enid would make a cute qpr. I highly doubt anyone in the mainstream media would ever do that tho. And Merlin and Arthur have a very good case for being in a relationship. Some of the actors n stuff have legit said that what they have is a love story and enjoy the ship a lot. (They producers would never allow it tho.) I remember an interview with Morgana's actor and someone else talking about it.
Also, sometimes the lines between romance or whatever is kinda messy, and relationships might not fit perfectly into one definition. So I'm not really upset at people shipping characters I think are queerplatonic, I just don't like when they say queerplatonic relationships aren't real, or aren't actually queer, or aren't a genuine partnership. I don't like when folks consider attraction or romance as the be all end all for what makes something queer. 🤷
As for Crowley and Az, I wouldn't really consider it reducing per se. I'm genderqueer and if I was in a partnership with another genderqueer person, I'd personally consider it gay since we would have the same identity. That's just me tho. I can see why someone else might not use that term for it.
I mean they gay baited the hell out of Dean and Cas for i think at least a decade and then the wildly ridiculous love confession at the end was the cherry on top of the gaybaiting pie. Thing is I don't expect the writers of Supernatural to have intended the aroace reading, i would be surprised if they were even aware of it, they were too busy baiting with the homoerotic reading between them. So I don't blame fans getting invested in that dynamic, since the writers were clearly dangling hints throughout. For reference I watched the show eons ago, but stopped the plot kinda lost me and I don't personally ship them. So then I would catch bits and pieces that escaped the fandom, since I intersect some shipping spaces from time to time, especially the end because it was kind of inescapable the memes were kinda everywhere.
Don't know much about Arthur/Merlin, save for it exists and there's a gay ship that never sailed in canon.
I can see your reading of Aziraphale/Crowley though, plus it nicely ties in the reaction to the kiss, which felt really really weird, the kiss not the reaction.
@@willowarkan2263 Ya I'm pretty sure MOST writers never intend it in a queer way. It's always seems like something they did accidentally. I stopped watching Supernatural around season 11, but I'm pretty sure the confession thing was because of how much people shipped them. I mean Cas wasn't even supposed to be a regular. He was gonna get killed off after a season but the audience liked him too much so they kept him.
Merthur was never canon, but even the actors liked them together. The showrunners didn't like it tho so it never happened.
And the AziCrow kiss definitely felt they only did it to prove something. Less of a character choice and more of a director choice.
Its been a year now & we expected more wednesday addams but now we have more tv shows with acezuak themes . Plus harry potter . Which as the story will go. At first harry potter in a glacevseems asexual . But ends up in cuppa tea british definition
I hope Wednesday doesn't become more like Morticia if they make more seasons, but I also feel like that's kind of how they set it up... Typically, Hollywood tries to give their main characters some kind of internal character arc, like they have to "learn" something and then change by the end of the story. The better compromise would be to make Wednesday realize that she likes having close friends who she can rely on. She was legitimately distressed when Thing was dying, and she visited her bee keeper friend in the hospital. So that could have been a wake up call for her that she DOES actually care about friends/family, and needs them in her life. But the concern I have is that in season two the show will push Wednesday's character arc further into desiring romantic/sexual relationships... Which I would HHAAAATTEE.
I share your concern, but it wouldn't be diverging from the classical Wednesday character - just watch "Season 2 episode 11 - Fued in the Addams Family". So f they give her an arc where she pursuit romance I would be fine with it, but hopefully they do it a bit subtle, because if it get to much focus it would be distasteful.
Apparently this show is another instance of Tim Burton getting credit for something that’s not all his
I feel like "young girl is a vicisious sadist and her family treats it as adorable" is a subversion. "young boy is a vicisious sadist and his family treats it as adorable" is a reflection of current societal norms (and priviledge, given that they are rich) and I don't think Netflix and Tim Burton are brave enough to go there.
Also, if they did "Tim Burton's Puglsy" Pugsly would just be a Tim Burton self insert, and no one wants to watch that...
Honestly, it just felt like the typical "teenage girl doesn't know she actually wants to shed her entire personality for a guy" plot to me. But then other moments were "how would you know to say that without talking to aromantic people about being aromantic?" The irony for me is that I didn't see Wednesday as arospec at all until I watched the show, and now I do, and I was queerbaited (not by the drag show, I didn't know about that until after I watched it, but by the early hints of queer rep without any actual pay off).
And I'm conflicted, because I genuinely enjoyed a solid 90% of the show, and am intrigued on where it goes. But I also don't want to watch a character I relate to slowly lose everything that makes her herself before ending up with a generic guy.
As soon as they started leaning into Wednesday feeling some type of romance towards that bland coffee shop boy I started checking out. I was like, nope that ruined this for me. No thanks. Also Enid and Wednesday had zero romantic chemistry, so no thanks to that too. I'm usually one to ship something if I see some on-screen chemistry or some hints (yes, I fall for the queerbaiting every time😓) but even I was like, nah they're good buddies and that's it.
The conversion therapy...omg I was so confused. This would have worked if Enid was the only one in the family who was a werewolf and the parents gave her a brochure to a conversion therapy to NOT "wolf out" lol, then that scene would have made more sense, but as it is, it's just ???
The whole show was disappointing to be honest.
Yess so much queer erasure and lack of black or asian characters but I think my biggest gripe of all was the lack of disabled characters. That school was for "outcasts" and I cannot think of a setting that would have been more appropriate in terms of the way disabled people are often treated societally. Like even just a kid in a wheelchair in the background, heck you could even make it part of their "monster" character such as a naga or a siren/mer character that can't switch to a human form. All we had was Enid who ended up just being a "late bloomer".
In talking about this episode with my partner I realised a running joke on the Addams family was that the kids do things to horrify the townsfolk and the parents would be proud of them for doing so. But the premise of the new show is that Wednesday is sent away for misbehaving. That doesn't make sense except as a poorly thought out way to get her into a high school clique situation
The parents wouldn't transfer her to a new school, it's just that her former school expelled her so she needs to get education somewhere else. Nevermore is the perfect school for her, she can do whatever n low chances to be expelled, that's why her parents sent her away
@@GyaruLokal I guess that is true. The whole show still feels out of character for the Addams family though. Like a Harry Potter spinoff that happens to feature Wednesday Addams.
I'm definitely going to be upset if Wednesday doesn't turn out aroace, but it already seems like they're going that route... a Wenclair QPR would be adorable and perfect!
I'm glad to finally hear a review of Wenesday that questioning the aro/ace side of this tv show. I interpreted Enid's story as a (failed) asexual conversion therapy allegory and Wednesday as aro/ace (she's not even with one of her love interest at the end of the show !) I thought I was the only one and apparently I'm not (not really). It's so good to hear someone who have the same opinion I felt alone with all the Enid x Wednesday's shippers (no hate to them) ! So, well, thank you very much for that and thank you to be here I'm gonna explore your channel x)
25:45 if that was what they were thinking of then I'd hate it even more. Like sooooo much. Werewolves are some of the most queer monsters there are. Like the trans allegory is right there. And for them to make it like wolfing out is the normal and typical thing just grinds my gears.
This video honestly reminds me of all the things I didn't like.
Wednesday being the perfect aroace character but they probably won't do that.
The weird tone-deaf things with race. Like Morticia literally says at one point that "someone like you could never understand what it's like to not be believed" which I think was about womanhood but she said it to a black man. Like... I'm pretty sure a black man in America also knows a thing or to about not being believed.
I also just hate the way they talk and the dialogue was so dumb. It felt like pandering honestly.
Wednesday was pretty stupid when it came to decision making to. Like with that one kid that was so obviously framed.
Oh! And another thing was how people kept getting on Wednesday for supposedly being awful and cold when most of the things they attributed to that were common things among autistic people.
The list goes on.
Wendell & Wild successfully did all the things that Wednesday failed at. It's well written with fully developed characters and good queer representation. The story somewhat similar too, wouldn't surprise me if Tim Burton ripped it off, along with ripping of Harry Potter and Mean Girls.
Another series that successfully pulled off the things that Wednesday failed at (well written & developed characters + good queer rep) is The Bastard Son and The Devil Himself. Sadly, both Bastard Son and Wendell & Wild got basically no promo from Netflix.
I would have handled the werewolf character very differently. In my own stories, the wolf is considered their true form, and the human form is a guise they assume to fit in with normative society. Staying in human form too long makes them uncomfortable, which is why some choose not to fit in at all, regardless of how much society fears them. Since werewolves are shapeshifters associated with nature, which is constantly in flux, they feel most at home in places where they can change as often as they want. In other words, my werewolves are a trans allegory.
I suppose this is consistent with the many other missed opportunities of the series you mentioned.
Okay so I actually really enjoyed the show and loved the platonic friendship between Wednesday and Enid. I read the werewolf change as her protectiveness for Wednesday is what triggered the change. Why I did see Enid as a queer coded character she's literally a walking rainbow it's sad they didn't do anything like that with her
But god did I hate the how love triangle was. I honestly posted about how much I disliked Xavier as a character and how I hated the way they tried to write their relationship and I got so many replies saying it was "sexually tension” which is weird.
Also it was a full moon
For Wednesday i agree she is def ace . But enid could be bi. She's screaming bi. Maybe it would be cool if enid fell in love with Wednesday and both at the same time explored their sexualities so they end up not together. But both going through this together
Finally someone is talking about this ugh everyone focus on wenclair (it's fine) when the answer is literally right there she screams aroace
thank you! the conversian therapy part irked me so bad when I saw the show and I haven't seen anyone else talk about how weird it was! like if you are going to offend us at least make the metaphor make sense!!!!
Fun fact: My octoling oc is named after Pugsley's pet octo Aristotle. Her name is Aris Otto (it was Ari Star Tole but that didn't really roll off the tongue. lol).
Also I want more qpr rep in stuff. I don't have Netflix so I can't watch the show but I love The Addams Family. I've been a fan for ages. I've got the original series on DVD. When I heard in a clip Wedenesday say "I'm never going to fall in love" my brain went straight to aroace and it was something I suddenly wanted. Then a coworker said she had not one but two love interests and my heart sank. Bluh. I want a main lady lead who doesn't have a romantic interest at all. If she isn't into it I don't want the story to force it so she "feels more human" or whatever because I know where that inevedably leads. bluh.
Y’all might like the animated film from the 2010s if you wanna see more Pugsley.
And God, the idea of a series around Fester definitely... Festered in my mind now, thanks for that.
I enjoyed the unfortunately very short youtube series Adult Wednesday Addams by and with Melissa Hunter. It's not very aroace though.
I enjoyed the show fine, but the love triangle wigged me out when I read her as a 100% aromantic
I think part of why Wednesday gets so much more attention in Addams family media (and fandom) isn't just because of her recognizable branding, but also because Pugsley isn't seen as "conventionally attractive" being a fat boy. I always enjoyed his dynamic with Wednesday, his fun antics, and the way he brought a unique perspective to the family, and as much as I think being fat doesn't make you less appealing as a character, there's a very real bias in fans and studios that might be shining through. Giving him his own show would mean putting a young fat actor in the spotlight, and the cynical part of me thinks that that was seen as too risky and unappealing of a choice to make.
Don't worry all. I'm sure Enid, Bee Boy & and definitely any new second season character will become/are LGBT. I mean Wednesday will probably visit Enid in San Francisco for crying out loud. Why not Thing? He loves manicures. I also agree the whole conversion camp pamphlet scene fell flat. It only works if Enid doesn't want wolf out or become a normie. Yeah, the whole ancestry thing seems weird. Goody Addams is "a Mexican ancestor" yet looks like a blonde Scandinavian (yes I know she played by the hispanic JO). In the orginal adaptations of TAF they had witch ancestors on both sides. So that could explain her being an Addams instead of a Frump which is Mortisha's maiden name.
What if the 2 guys after Wednesday get turned away because she is ace, but in the meantime the guys are getting closer and end up together?
I definitely Wednesday as Aroace. buuut i am also a hopeless romantic and one of my favorite pairings is what i call "Parrot and Raven" so i kinda like the ship
I've just finished watching the show and it's...really not worth the hype for me . The love triangle thing was so boring,I really don't want Wednesday to be in a relationship with anyone tbh including Enid,I do ship them,but only really in a strong platonic sense . The werewolf conversion therapy thing I agree was weirdly done,it didn't seem to make sense and the queer metaphors were often just throwaway lines rather than actual representation
We need to see more ace and aro people on screen because there are too many misconceptions about it .
I have a lot of opinions on the show, and these are just the ones I thought of because of this video.
Enid defiantly didn't get the love and care she deserved for her werewolf storyline, I know they wanted to make her seem like an outcast *2 because she wasn't able to "wolf out" like the rest of her family and was afraid of becoming ostracized and made to be a lone wolf. If they wanted to make it a better metaphor for sexuality or identity, they could have shown that she was afraid of not meeting the standards of the rest of the community, but then shown her family as being loving and supportive of her whether or not she was able to transform, pushing it into an internal conflict and possibly even a story of self acceptance. From the get go, it was clear she would eventually "wolf out" and it would when she absolutely needed to, but they could have had her use her intelligence in order to save Wednesday rather than forcing this shallow and half hearted resolution that is really predictable.
I had a huge problem with the love triangle, I think they could have used it to really push an uncomfortable situation that Wednesday has to learn to navigate with her not being interested in romance or dating,. We did get to see a little bit of that like with her asking Xavier to the Raven in order to monitor him, or telling Tyler they were going on a date in order to get him to drive her to the mansion. I feel like they could have shown her being really repulsed by the idea of dating while still holding space for these intimate friendships. I feel they also could have used Tyler being manipulated by Thornhill as a way to put more romantic pressure on Wednesday, allowing her to really state firmly that she doesn't want that and that she doesn't see anyone in that way, but instead they wasted a lot of time trying to push this love triangle that doesn't even really work because of the level of distain she seems to have towards Xavier the entire series until the very end.
The fact that the plot line where she plans to go to the dance with Xavier to keep an eye on him is completely thrown out the window when Tyler shows up it her door is super off-putting as well, Wednesday is not a shy person and when she is on a mission she sticks to it, I feel that she wouldn't have just abandoned her original plan just to avoid a conflict.
There are a lot things that I personally feel like they fumbled; like her ancestor being an Addams, I remember talking to my s.o. about how that was strange, the issue where her family just dropped her off then didn't resurface until they were needed for the plot, brushing past her admittance to the school and how everyone else in attendance has some sort of power, as well as just hinting at character development for a majority of the cast then trying to shoehorn it in wherever they could.
When I first watched the show I questioned their decision in focusing solely on Wednesday, I think they could have had a lot more fun and done something more imaginative and immersive, like focusing on a different family member for each season or episode and having those storylines intertwine. Doing something like that would give them so much more opportunity to develop the entire family as well as any supporting characters, as well as call backs to previous episodes or seasons.
I didn't saw Enid as aroace coded, just badly gay coded but Wednesday is for me very aroace coded. And I do ship them together, but not in romantic way. Like I would love to them to be in qpr
Also i may be wrong, but I think that it was a collaboration? So it was aired not only on Netflix do maybe that was the reason for the previously?
the 2019 cartoon focuses a bit more on Pugsley, but they gave Wednesday the octopus though🙁
I would just like too say, as someone who was in the group of people who were really into/hyped about the series before it even came out, the series / Wednesday and Enid relationship gained a lot of traction because of the shippers and edits made before hand and what i remember the marketing was sort of made in a way to hint at their relationship
Ace wednesday in a queerplatonic relationship with Enid in my AO3 fanfiction...more likely than you think
sorry but no one wants a pugsley show lmao, I wish Wednesday was better but not pugsley please. there are so many smart inventor boy characters out there already
I had fun watching Wednesday seeing her through an aroace lense until it was unfortunately not cannon and that aroace psychopath girl boss is all I’ll ever get out of the series
Haven't watched the show yet, but mentioned the queerbaiting to a coworker who got into a (friendly) argument with me about it. She's challenging what evidence do we have that Wednesday was ever AroAce. I tried to cite scenes from the 90s movies, but coworker insists this Wednesday is based on the original 60s show, in which she was a child who didn't show an orientation yet. Therefore AroAces are making assumptions based on incomplete information. Does my coworker's argument have merit?
Regarding the failed werewolf allegory, you two (and many others) were struggling to find a real-world example that Edith's issues could have been better compared to.
I thought of one.
Her parents' view of her inability to wolf out could be seen as them forcing a change on her so she is what her parents believe to be more 'biologically' correct.
Perhaps this could be compared to how intersex people are often treated. Doctors and parents think they need to 'fixed' to be more 'biologically' correct.
I think that's a stretch and a half to think that Burton was thinking of intersex people in that moment. Do you immediately think it's zebras when you hear hoof beats, too?
@@thekarret2066 That's not what I said at all. The podcast hosts were trying to come with better real-world examples the show COULD have used in their allegory that would have made a bit more sense. I just suggested one.
(I have added "I thought of one" to the first sentence in case it wasn't clear enough.)
@@mudling Ah. Gotcha.
I still think it's giving the writers too much credit, from the sounds of things, they seem to have made it like a normie's perspective of what "outcasts"/ "darkly inclined" folks are like. I doubt they'd have even thought of intersex folks. I wouldn't try going to extra effort to make them seem like they're actually really smart on some LGBT shit, when it looks pretty obvious that they were just grabbing at a superficial phrase they know is bad like they did something clever, when the 00s X-Men movies already did it and it actually made sense.
It's interesting to hear your opinion on the Werwolf conversion camp. Because to me it was perfectly implementing how weird the concept of a camp like that is!
"Sending a queer person to conversion and expecting them to become cishet is like forcing a werewolf to go somewhere trying to change the way they are a werewolf" (I hope you understand what I am trying to say, English isn't my first language)
Also that Enid was able to transform to a werewolf at the end was because she had to protect Wednesday. So it was her love to her giving her this new stage of being a werewolf (if platonic or romantic doesn't matter to me. Because either way it is just a proof for their strong connection)
I also disagree very hard about the thing with the two moms. I mean they being casually put in there is just a way of showing how normal it is. Being represented doesn't always need to be the center point of everything. Sometimes little things are the way to show the queer normative in life.
And all that about the black characters just went completely over my head. Perhaps because I grew up in an environment where skincolor doesn't really matter. So I am confused why it is bad that they played those characters?
The werewolf conversion camp thing would only work if she COULD transform or whatever and her parents were trying to send her to a conversion camp to NOT be able to transform. This was more like... sending a legitimately cishet person to a cishet camp that brings out their cishet-ness, which was already going to happen anyway.
Also - when they advertised the show in such an LGBT way [doing the drag race thing], it gives off an expectation that the LGBT rep would be much more pronounced than the "Disney's first gay couple" in a blink-and-you-miss-it moment.
Also also - on its own, there's nothing wrong with it... but Burton hasn't almost any black characters before that had any plot relevance, so when he hasn't done that in his career, and the so far only time he has, he portrays them as seductive, but also manipulative and corrupt and the antagonists..... it looks bad on his ability to write black characters.
They can still try to save it and make Wednesday demi although I doubt they will.
You probably will never read this but I have to disagree with you here 29:06. I’m aroace myself, I don't fall in love or have crushes, I don't experience limerence. Romantic attraction is limerence not love but passion and desire, but as an aro, I have still emotional needs or interests including romantic ones. Limerence is a state of mind that don't last, that's why we're told that "love last three years." But as a married couple, I'm sure you understand that long-term commitment must be based on more durable emotions than limerence/romantic attraction to sustain itself. As a cupioromantic, I'm interested in engaging myself in a romantic relationship in the future and I observed that alloromantic long-term relationships rest upon platonic love like tenderness, akin to friendship and familial love just like queer platonic relationships. For me, there is no really difference between QPR and long-term romance. In fact a lot of allos I know in stable long-term relationships described the aftermath of the the three first years full of a passion as a transition to a love similar to a deep friendship.
This is why, IRL aromantics can end up in couple like my closest friend who is also aroace and is in a long term relationship with her boyfriend. So I disagree that good aro representation means automatically celibacy. Being reduced to "the one who's single or is destined to stay single all their life" is depressing and for me at least arophobic - like it's not up to you to seek what you want because you're lacking the ability to choose. There is a deep misunderstanding of what love is to expect some psychological determinism can prevent aros to engage themselves in relationships. And it also expects all alloromantics to have a love life and that alloromantic celibates could not be happy, which is also demeaning. Sure being in a relationship, living with someone, sharing intimacy is not a easy choice of life, it's demanding and compromising. Like having children or any life engagement. That's why people chose to remain single or childless, ect... And limerence can be a good motivation to start a relationship but when the limerence disapears, it's hard for the couple to transit to a long-term relationship. But celibacy remains a choice nonetheless, I will make no compromise about it.
However, I’m the first to not be thrilled by Hollywood's tendency to always put superficial romance as a shortcut to emotional relationships between characters. I want them to explore more platonic relationships but for everyone in the spectrum, not just the aces. For me the aroaces characters aren't here to play the celibate stand-in that shows the rest that you can live without a partner, everyone can understand that and with alloromantic and allosexual characters. So no, I don't see a romance as something that can erase an entire side of the ace spectrum. I didn’t like Wednesday being in a love triangle with Tyler and Thorpe and I’m not a Enid/Wednesday shipper because of Wednesday’s personality, not vibes about her sexual orientation. And also because none of these characters have chemistry.
I loved the series, except episode 4 - it made me feel nauseous, but not in a good way. However I loved the new portrayal of Wednesday.
I enjoyed the show, I think Bianca is an interesting character she didn't want to use her siren song and at the end she helps Wednesday.
Can someone please explain where the "C" in "ace" comes from?
"Asexuality is often abbreviated as ace, a phonetic shortening of asexual, and the community as a whole is likewise referred to as the ace community. Despite lacking sexual attraction, some asexuals might engage in purely romantic relationships, while others may not."
-your loving friend, google
also some aces use the ace of hearts as a symbol for ace with a romantic lean and the ace of spades as a symbol for aro/ace, so there's the card suit angle as well
It's just because "ace" is a preexisting term for other things, including as a slang term to call something good, that sounds the same as the beginning of the word "asexual" so it makes a good shortening
I'm sorry but the premise of this critique is such bullshit. If you want the story told exactly the way you want it told, you're going to have to write that story yourself - not wait for some writers that aren't like you to write specifically for you. We all want representation, we all should get it, but this show never promised you an aromantic storyline.
i agree
The show never promised you an alloromantic storyline either.
@@Crypto5201 It didn’t have to. As long as the story is good that’s all I care about. And it was good.
@@Hugo-G Sounds like it was kinda shit, tbh. Sounds like boring, basic normie shit - like what a normie thinks darkly inclined or outcast folks enjoy. Because Burton is Hollywood's "darkly inclined guy" even though he's been a shitty director and writer for the movies he's made the past couple of decades, and the main shit he was involved in that was good, he was mostly just the art director [which is definitely his lane, he really shines well with the visuals... but that's it; he can't write for shit].
Or maybe directors and writers could think a little bit more about the messages they send out when damn near ALL media requires that to "humanize" a character, they give them a love interest. SO sorry you have to think about what that kind of messaging does to people who have no interest in romance or sex. Maybe if you'd been made aware of it before, you'd be able to see how this is more of a "oh god, don't do this AGAIN to YET ANOTHER CHARACTER" complaint instead of a "You better do it my way or I'm going to flip shit and raise hell" complaint.
I really liked the show and I definitely don't think it's racist. Actually I didn't even once think about the colour of anyone's skin or their sexuality when I was watching it. 🙂 I'm glad they didn't go all woke on this show and just cast the people who were talented and needed for the roles. I'm sick of shows needing to 'represent' everyone and even when they do they still get crapped on for it as it's not the 'right' representation.
But none the less, it was interesting to hear your thoughts and opinions on this show even if I disagree with most of it.
The show sounds like typical Burton trash he keeps churning out. But by him having the Addams Family be Latino and some main antagonists black, he's already trying to be woke, he just sucks at it because he doesn't know how to write interesting POC characters. He's honestly not a great writer OR director. He's good with the art direction and aesthetics and people think that makes him qualified to direct or write shit, but he's trash at it and has been for decades now. His clique of more talented friends elevate his trash to mediocrity.
Also -- if someone does a piss poor job of representing a different type of character, that should be called out, and also instead of the same handful of bland, stock caricatures, it's refreshing to see stories of characters from different backgrounds and identities; a true challenge for someone who considers themselves a serious director that few actually seem interested in trying out, in favor of those bland, cardboard cut outs they call "characters". I'm personally tired of seeing the same shit after the same shit after the same shit. It's old, boring and trite. Regardless of the "muh representation" aspect of wanting diverse characters.... diverse characters - _well-made_ diverse characters - can make a show really engaging to expand your world of possibilities beyond those bland, tired ass same old stock stereotypes parading around in skin to be called a "character".
Ain’t no way y’all sending out cancel culture to a week old show 😭
It didn't have to be a week old - I heard Burton was directing it and knew it would be trash because he can't direct for shit. He's good for the aesthetics and that's it. He can't write plots or make compelling characters and hasn't been able to for decades now. He's just Hollywood's go-to "darkly inclined" dude, even though he's piss poor at what they made his job. idk if it's a massive ego problem, or if he knows he's put in this awkward position and just doesn't know how to do better .... but I feel like it's probably the former; if I knew I was terrible at something, I would ask a more competent writer/director to help bring the stories to life while I focus on doing what I'm good at.
God forbid having criticisim
Giving a negative review is not "cancellation." Is this your first day on Earth?