Pond Liner Comparison - Ask T.P.D. #30
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2015
- Not all Pond Liner types are created equal. In today's episode of Ask The Pond Digger we will explain the difference between EPDM rubber liner and RPE liners. We review the advantages and disadvantages of the different varieties and tell you when and where we use each. You keep asking pond questions and I'll keep answering them.
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Each Friday we release a new How to episode of the "Ask The Pond Digger" where we answer koi pond and water garden related questions. We discuss different philosophies on how to build a pond, tips and tricks on pond maintenance, water turtles, aquatic plants, goldfish and much more.
If you want a chance for us to answer your question on the show, use the hashtag #asktheponddigger, type your question and post it as a comment on one of our TH-cam tutorial videos, or Twitter, or Facebook, or Instagram and we'll do our best to capture your questions and use them on the show! - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
I watched my neighbor digging his 20x15x 3 feet deep pond with one of those mini diggers. When he brought out the liner for the pond I went round and asked him "Hey! you must have spent a fortune on that pond liner" He told me that it was actually the waterproof membrane that roofers use and was a lot cheaper than the regular pond liner. I decided to do the same but on a smaller scale as he had a fair bit left over. Well his pond is now 10 years old and mine is 8 and they are both still going strong with no problems at all. Just thought I'd say is all. Hope you don't mind
That's pretty cool. I've been thinking of tearing out my above ground pool and using the liner from that. It's free, but idk how much id like the blue hue
@@VanillaCoke64oz Those are usually bad liners. The one this guy used was EPDM
@@dinmavric5504 Roofers membranes are also EPDM might not be 45mil but is EPDM
This is very helpful. Appreciate it. Looking to make a pond in my yard out here in Dallas.
Excellent video. I hoped you'd do something with this specific topic, thank you! :)
This video helped me decide on the flexible liner instead of the reinforced liner for my koi pond.
We have a small 11x11 about 2 ft deep...and thanks to your video I will stay with the epdm...hopefully we won't need a new liner....came home today and found our pond almost empty with the liner having pockets of air or water underneath...not sure just what happened...liner we have now is close to 20 year old...thanks again for your info...
Thank you for the great videos I was hoping you would have also talked about HDPE or HDR PE the HDPE seems to be getting pretty popular it's pretty thin but it is very tough! but it is very very affordable.
Thank you for this! I'm currently trying to figure out whether I can seal my pond with clay. If it turns out that I can't, I'll be choosing between EPDM and LLDPE; the former for all the obvious reasons and the latter for its lower weight, hence better maneuverability
Great information as always.
Not sure when I will be digging out my pond, maybe in 1yr or 2 yr time but still collecting information, so which is better rubber liner or concrete for a pond? What should I go for, if I consider lifespan of the pond, budget restraint, viability of the pond.
But up to now, you don't seem to have done any pond with concrete.
I put my backyard pond in about 25+/- years ago and used the RPE liner. I have a 340 gal pond, hour glass shape, 18" deep with a 6" shelf on 2 sides. I believe that was the liner available at that time, never heard of the EPDM liner till I watched your videos, and it looks a lot easier to install. The RPE liner is hard to fold, and the creases stick out about 1-2". About 6 years ago I got a leak above the shelf, bought the same liner again, cut the old one at the shelf line and reinstalled the new one. Again the folds are sticking out 1-2". About 3 years ago, my rescue dog was pulling on a fold and punctured it. I put the recommended patch on it, and so far so good. I"m learning a lot with your videos, I have plants and fish, and in our hot summer months I could never get clear water. I use a Pondmaster 1250, and have used various bacteria, algea kill, barley straw, and blue die. This last year I got closer to the right combination of bacteria and blue die ( and added pea gravel ). As I watch your videos I'm getting some ideas on redesigning to having some sort of bog filter stream/water fall on one end and a skimmer on the other. Meanwhile, I think I'm going to get the Airmax Pondair to get the oxygen level up. Do you think with my pond as is now, getting some oxygen flowing will help with the algae growth, and I can spend less time cleaning! Puyallup, WA, we have 3-4 months hot 70-90, and dry. Thanks again for your videos!
Air is an excellent idea and will greatly benefit your pond and your maintenance routine.
Well if I ever get a answer from your face book page on the evaluation on my pond this will come in very handy to help with my pond. Great video and very informative
Stephanie Rogers I found your messages. For some reason the messages are hard to find on my mobile device through the Fanpage management apps. Looking forward to your decision on your project and I never found your video.
I am looking at a 10' round, 3' deep pond and since I have rocks here, I think I will opt for the EDPM. It is also more accessible, but the greater flexibility and ease of use are big selling points for me. If I was doing a very large project then I would consider saving the 30%
I just put the 45mil Firestone rubber liner in my 10'x15' pond. 👍🏼 That's all I have ever used. I've only built 4 ponds so I'm Not a pro. Lol. Thanks for your helpful info bro!
Keep up the great work Chad!
Thats about 1.1mm thick
I am using Edpm, if I used the reinforced liner for my project I don't think I would be here today. Would have died of frustration.lol. Thanks for all the hard work on the videos, they are a tool kit for anyone interested in building a pond.
Musabe009 45 mil rules! RPE would have made you insane!!!
I use old rubber roofing. Works great I got a hole in it and shot silicon in it without draining any water out, just put the silicone gun under the water and squeezed. Leak sealed never had a problem again.
I'm working on a 70' x 100' 8' deep with the apron. No live stock I was thinking of back filling with a sandy loam couldnt find ANY info about it until just now thank you.
Hello from Slovenia!
I've looked into the RPE liner aswell and the only reason was, becouse I've thought that it is more puncture resistant. Which you proved me wrong :)
Main reason... We've got a Golden Retriever, who is crazy about water. I think it's in breeds DNA, so...
when he drinks, he puts front two paws into the pond (plastic atm).
And now I'm planning to build a brand new one 5000 l / 1350 gal, (about which you inspired me btw) and trying to find a solution. Do you think covering the EPDM liner with lots of gravel should be fine, or should I go with a concrete?
Keep up the good work, love watching your videos :)
I attempted to use RPE for my 10x30x4 rectangular swim pond. It has straight-ish sides, no shelves and a flat bottom, so I thought it was a good candidate. After 2 days of fighting with the RPE, I went & bought EPDM.
I repurposed the RPE to line my 16×4×2 water lily growing tanks. After 1 yr, I can see that anywhere I put a serious crease in it (like you did) I've gotten a leak. Never again.
+DeMe Srvl EPDM RULES!!
In my mom's pond it is RPE and it sucks punctured by dog toe nails to easy. Was installed by total rookies. When I redo her pond next year it will be with 45 mil EPDM liner. Thanks for the info.
Robert Hansberger 45 mil rules!
I was going to be using EPDM liner before, but now I have even more of a reason to do so! lol
+Leslie Kite BOOM!
Thank u that help and epdm liner for me now
Pedro Marquez You bet!
Used RPE on my small pond. Wish I had seen your video. Would have used EPDM because of flexibility. Was worried about tearing but video proved otherwise. Next pond will be EPDM.
My RPE liner is now leaking at the folds/creases after 5 years, what a pain trying to repair. Im going EPDM as replacement.
i want to build a raceway 80' long x 3' wide x 3' deep, , what material would you recommend. for aquaponics
I have epdm 45 miles Firestone in my koi pond works great with deep sharp walls
50f150 45mil RULES!!
Any suggestions about preventing damage done by the neighborhood deer? Will rocks and gravel protect the bottom of the pond from their hooves? Thanks!
Started real small with the cheaper 20 mil stuff, never again, built a figure 8ish pond 25 x 12 w/ a side 8ft "P" shaped pond that ran into the big pond that solely served as a Bog filter and loved it. Now moved to florida and just started planning a 35ft x 15ft Dogleg pond with a built in Bog filter and wouldn't use anything less than a 45 mil. On a side note I would never have another pond without a Bog filter the benefit of one of those is unbelievable especially after I added it after my 25x12 was finished.
#asktheponddigger, just catching some of your great videos... i have a quick question, have you ever heard of concrete fabric as a liner? I recently saw some companies now talking about this concrete Fabric that is used to line pond/lakes and once laid it is watered to form a concrete barrier. do you know if this product and have you ever worked with it ?
May I ask, what do you think about the American Talapia Liner? Does it stretch and flexible like the EPDM or its like a RPE liner? Im waiting for your reply. Thanks you!
We have one section with liner and one without - the one with line we use rubber liner. We have a lot of shelfs , curves and stuff in that section so I'd say we did the right choice.
TORE ANDERSSON Sounds about right!
I am using EPDM liner in the ponds, and plan to change the bog filters to EPDM when needed. I used to have PVC liner but have found that they tend to go brittle after a couple of years....
Hans Hartman I am not a fan of PVC liner for that reason.
I figure I should ask the expert. I'm building a raised pond out of Wood between 500-600 gallons. I see rubberized paintable liners and wondering what you think about using them for a cleaner look and finish. thank you,
I have the 45 mil liner in pond which I installed in 1999! It’s still hanging in there but we’re going larger this year so I will be using same on new installation.
Which is better pondling 500micron of 7 layer or 5 layer
I have a pond dug... it is 125x 70 and 14 ft deep in the deepest parts. Sides in deep end are pretty deep. What would you reccomend? Do you sell product?
I have 12 x 15 pond with a rubber liner, I have 2inch pvc pipe for over flow. I use silicone to seal around the pipe it stick good for 2 years then it starts leaking. Is there a special seal to use. PS I have a small amount of water running in all the time.
Which pond liner is best for Australian red claw crawfish?
Eric, a few words about the longevity of a pond seal would be good in the comparison here. Some liners last a decade or two while other types last for centuries and longer. ;)
Are all Large sized 24 or 30 Mil RPE pond liners seam welded together from 10' or 12' rolls or can they be purchased as one manufactured sheet.
Disclaimer: Do not attempt to drive your car or truck into someones pond to test what type of liner they have or prove Eric wrong! Especially mine lol. Nice topic!
Joe Popp Bahahahaha!!! YEah right!
Can RPE be seamed/glued like EPDM ?
I'm looking our large liner that's not black but will hold up to swimming and some shelves with gravel bags and pebbles. The deep portion won't have rock or gravel and will be able to see the liner because we want it like a pool, but I can't find large liners that are gray, white or tan that will be an adequate mil. Any suggestions for colored liners? FYI no fish, no plants.
hi my yard is sandy soil and i want to built a koi fish pond am am in tanzania.
the option we hav here is pvc linner.i dont know if it will work coz i cumz in a sheet of 2mtrs width and .
so ill hav to keep in pieces or joint them
Glad I found this. I’ll definitely go with the EPDM for my back yard small pond.
i have a total pond pvc liner, does anyone know what side is up? both sides look the same, thanks!
i understand there is a few different thicknesses. .. but my question is what thickness did you demonstrate in your video? im assuming the 40 mil..
45
i would use RPE liners on the surface of the pond and EPDM rubber liner on top of RPE liner and around the pond.
What's the expected life of a rubber liner in Florida? I have a low area on my lot that puddles when it rains a foot deep and I want to build a 15'x15' by 3 foot deep pond there and want to slope and vein other parts of the lot to feed it. I had this idea to solar pump and filter that water in place so that it can be further filtered and consumed... but not sure it's possible or safe. Given it's going to be a mix of rain water and top soil that will sit it will collect silt and pathogens. Are their filters or affordable treatment systems in the market that can do this? Any way to combat evaporation?
I I've had my pond in for 12 years or so, I believe it's the EP DM rubber liner but not sure it was 45 mills of time. One question that I would like to see or example is splicing liners or seeming it in the field. Have you done any shows on that yet?
eroggero THis is a tutorial we do plan on filming soon!
Where can the EPDM be purchased. Thanks
I have a 40 X 50 pond dug already. I’m thinking of lining it with old carpet as underlayment for a rubber liner. What do you think about this idea? I thought it would give it a puncture resistant layer and maybe prolong the life of the pond.
I've thought the same, I dont see how it could hurt it. Cheap underlayment
Im building a stream with a bog filter and a pond. I have geotextile fabric and 60 mil eddm rubber to line it all. But I also have some large tarps that I no longer need. Would it harm anything if I put the tarps down too, and if so, in what order...tarp, geo, then liner...or geo, then tarp, then rubber liner?
Do you know where I can get a clear pond liner
How do you compare this to a geosynthetic clay liner?
Sir please tell me pond liner Material plastic or Rubber ???
Sir which pond liner is very best for 40 feet Fish pond Please tell me its very Important ,,,,
Your all videos very very nice & knowledgefull
thnkss and All the best👌👍👍👍
I am a Chinese manufacturer of geomembrane and geotextiles. I can give you a comprehensive explanation on the installation of pond liner, size，materials and costs. If you have any questions, please send me an email sales5@hdpetgm.com ！
What happens when it breaks after a decade or two? Im asking because it's said that pond get better in ecosystem with time, no one would probably want to excavate the pond for the sake of liner. Can a pond survive any unknown puncher?
Eric, I use FireStone EPDM in every pond i biuld.... in ground or above ground in patio boxes.
Does the Firestone stick well to wood? I'm in the process of buying supplies to build a 4x8 above ground pond out of machine grade plywood.
@@bwortham1987 I have a 12x3x4 indoor pond framed with 2x4s and plywood . I have 1/2" foamular insulation between the wood and the liner. The liner is not sticky but it stays in place from the water pressure. The top edge of the liner is held down with wood trim board. The king of diy has a video on an indoor pond. Here on TH-cam that you can watch for ideas. Or feel free to private messages me and I will share pics onmy build
@@Jimi182 Yea I know about Joey, I'm Subscribed to his channel. Although he gives detailed info on each build, you can never get enough info. I've watched numerous of videos and I'll take bits and pieces of each idea and implement it on my project. I just revised my build 2 days ago and I'm going to build a 12x4x3 and yes, I'd love to see yours. Only thing I'm dreading is the pond liner. I'm sure its simple but it looks difficult lol. Question, did you get the pressure treated lumber or just the regular kind? I've priced the lumber I need for the build and corner bracing and it tallies up to $399 just for lumber and #10 wood screws from Lowes here in Houston Tx...
@@bwortham1987 I used regular framing lumber. If you go 12' long you will need to put support across the tank from side to side. I used 3/8" all thread with fender washers and nylock nuts. Where the treaded rod goes across the top of the tank I covered it with 1/2" c-PVC pipe. I also put the same threaded rod through the ends few inches from the top to make sure there is no chance of a failure.
@@bwortham1987 my all tread supports are every 4 feet. So one at each end and two across the open area in the top.
Which type of pond lining is better for guppy and its price for one meter replay pleace
I have got a 250 pond liner will it get a hole it hasn't leaked yet
is it good to keep the old liner in the pond and put the new liner on top of it good idea or bad idea
Bad Idea. Don't do it.
Epdm 45 mil liner. The only way to go in a small backyard pond! Is Pat's acreage pond a rpe liner with sand on top?
Matt Clark AGREED!
The only liner around me is super expensive from local pond store. Could I use epdm roofing liner with seam tape as liner? I have a 30×20 pond with roughly a 15×10 cascade area.
+Robert Gould Jr. I don't recommend using roofing liner however people have done it for years. There is certainly some risk.
ThePondDigger Risks being leakage or leaching?
I watched my neighbor digging his 20x15x 3 feet deep pond with one of those mini diggers. When he brought out the liner for the pond I went round and asked him "Hey! you must have spent a fortune on that pond liner" He told me that it was actually the waterproof membrane that roofers use and was a lot cheaper than the regular pond liner. I decided to do the same but on a smaller scale as he had a fair bit left over. Well his pond is now 10 years old and mine is 8 and they are both still going strong with no problems at all. Just thought I'd say is all. Hope you don't mind
Damn I used a 30mil rpe liner on my rectangular pond and it was so difficult to work with. I got too many creases near the corners and bottom drain area.
would you recommend using HDPE liner for pond building? i did a quick search on the net and HDPE is the only available liner offered in my area, mostly from hardware shop2 and it's said to last 15years tops maybe. i can't seem to find epdm anywhere near me and the only source i know, which a koi specialist(?) close up shop few years ago.
on a different note, i'm wondering if we can use a make-shift pool to hold fishes while a new pond is contructed because buying a specialised tank might be expensive and considering i'm living under my parents roof, such an option will be protest even if you have a steong reasoning..
+Nano Kumo HDPE is a viable option for water proofing. We use it on large projects a couple times a year.
make shift pond can be very effective for temporary ponds while construction is underway! Go for it.
45 gallon drums work for me , stick my round filters in bottom, keeps my fish all winter
What is the thickness of pond liner ? Is it rubber liner? Is it flexible? I want price details of fish pond 15 meter length x 9 meter width pond what is the price cost of this size?
darn not get notices on new video's .I am lost .I had that rpe in my lotus lily pond and it is hard to work with and it cracked on me around the top where it was exposed over the winter to weather ,I replaced it .Not sure if that is normal for it to do that .I got it cheap and only needed a smaller piece ,not worth the little savings .45 mil ..I know at least this will last .I did put 30 mil in lotus lily pond this past spring
sissy murphy I think the notices were messes up for a couple days when TH-cam was making changes. They had the comments page turned upside down too.
ThePondDigger Thought maybe you didn't like me any more : + ) LOL
what thickness is that rpe? i think the 24 is quite a bit more flexible
RPE is has a couple thickness offerings. I think 20 is a standard
Is it possible to use pond liner for a tarp
This topic about pond liner got me to thinking about larger natural ponds. Have you ever constructed a pond with no liner, like an all clay bottom pond? #asktheponddigger If so what are the pro's and cons of this type of construction, and what are the filtration needs for this type of pond?
Cazee Ponds The Casey Compound Pond is a clay bottom!
Cazee... this may answer many of your questions. www.aquahabitat.com/pond.liners.html Clay is still a liner or seal.
For a horse rehab swim pond what do you suggest?
Anyone know about mortaring stone directly on pondliner, im talking edging
+Juan Torres Using mortar on the coping stone is common and is done directly on the pond liner.
what is your take on using rubber flat roof liner? in the uk that all they use is fire stone roof liner,, taken from how to tube videos the garden shops here in Ontario Canada, say oh you cant use that, it will kill your fish,, I used it 15 years ago, in a 65ml that was half the price of a much thinner pond liner, no problem with fish or plants, sure I had a bit of what would look like spots of say gas. oil on the top of the water for a few days, it skimmed off, I don't know if you get that with the so called pond liner,, all I know is I got a much thicker liner using rubber roof line and saved a ton of money
I have a question for anyone out there I have some scrap Rpe cell liner it's about 10 gage thick does any one have some advice on how to smooth it out inside my small fish pond and remove wrinkles
Not sure we get EPDM in South Africa. I have a dedicated concrete Koi pond with a LLDPE liner for the waterfall / water feature flowing into the pond. LLDPE is also nice and flexible to work with. I just do not know how to repair it. Joining is done with dedicated 'welding' equipment. We also get cheaper PVC liners but I advise staying away from it if you prefer doing things once.
Willie Swart Yes I know you have different resources out of the country. Thanks for the feedback!
I heard some ponds utilize a base of bentonite clay with no liner at all. How thick it needs to be I'm not sure.
Can i pour cement over an existing pond liner
where can i buy this material
for a 0.6 ha shrimp pond which is more ideal
Hey eric I have a question why is in so hard to get UK style filters in the USA like the kockney brand an cloverleaf and would you know where to look for as a US dealer
50f150 Importation fees and the cost of freight make these filters hard to bring into the country and stay competitively priced.
ThePondDigger would you happen to know of any US brand here in the states simular to these
rubber liner 10' x 4' pond.
Hands down EPDM rubber liner.
D S Koi RIght????
I don't get it; so your not allowed to give the thickness of the rpe? Rpe comes in 20-40+ mil and varying layers.. Also, how do companies offer 20 year warranties on rpe with no underlayment required while epdm warranties require underlayment?
I am a Chinese manufacturer of geomembrane and geotextiles. I can give you a comprehensive explanation on the installation of pond liner, size，materials and costs. If you have any questions, please send me an email sales5@hdpetgm.com ！
I just made a 7feet x 13 feet x 2.5 deep and I a PVC pond Skins
Is hdpe good?
Bought the pond liner o.33 mil. And it looks as if it's going to crack and in some spots it looked like dents!..it has a 10 yr guarantee..so we had a kind of hard time not so flexable..installed and next morning pond was almost empty. DEVASTATED TO SAY THE LEAST..MY POND IS ONLY 55 GALLONS WITH A LITTLE WATERFALL
Decks RPE require an underlayment ❓
so has anybody looked into or used these used billboard signs as liner ? the company is named billboard tarps. I called them talked to them and of course said the spider to the fly" ya they work great easy to use last forever wont kill your fish. price is awesome on them but just not sure its worth the risk.
Dennis Scogin Dude that would be EPIC to have a billboard tarp advertising the wild animal park, BEER, Baseball or something completely random! I imagine they would be livestock friendly but here would be my concerns - The tarps do take a beatin' up on the side of the freeway and could have some small punctures not to mention the installers don't really worry about small pin holes when dragging them up and down the ladders. If you did in fact have a hole what would protocol be for repairing the hole. EPDM patches the most readily available repair kits are not recommended for other liner types. That's what's on my mind. Keep us posted.
I build ponds for a livin and the first year I started a had a client go and and buy a sign tarp, I told her I was very unexperienced with this type of material for koi ponds and couldn’t guarantee it. I installed it with her insisting I use it, within two days of finishing it started loosing water like crazy. After examining it I found a bunch of little holes that matched the size of her dogs paws and nails. So it would jump in or run up and down the stream and pop hole after hole, now I absolutely refuse to work with sign liner, it’s terrible and not meant for ponds. Just my 2sense
EPDM 45 mil here.
+Kathy Malaspina Good Stuff1
How long does the liner last ? (45 mil)
20 years if covered properly
I’m confused!! 45mm? 4.5cm?
Or are u talking imperial?
Sorry, what is the usual thickness in metric for the EPDM for a pond pool please?
@@SinfidelityMusic We dont use metrics.... that's why we're the best.
Frankie Fernandez 😂😂😜
I want to know the price and how can I get
I am a Chinese manufacturer of geomembrane and geotextiles. I can give you a comprehensive explanation on the installation of pond liner, size，materials and costs. If you have any questions, please send me an email sales5@hdpetgm.com ！
I am a manufacturer of Pond Liner. I can give you a comprehensive explanation on the installation of pond liner, size，materials and costs. If you have any questions
Hello fin jack. Can you please send me mail about the pond liner. chhetrisandesh.sc@gmail.com
@@fsn5607 ok
watch out now here comes a curve ball...........not going to use a liner in my next project. FRP(fiberglass reinforced panel) is made of 3/4" pressure treated plywood with a sheet of fiberglass laminated to the panel. I will send you a sample
Jeff Franz Fantastic!
and what about pvc liner?
+vdDool I am not a fan of pvc liners. They do not have uv resistance.
+ThePondDigger Thanks, but what about using it inside a greenhouse or behind a window?
14 year old PVC and this year it has fallen apart.
firestone 45 mil epdm rubber for me.
solid choice
HDPE 500micron for 6x4feet pond.
+Harshit Singh Rathore Interesting! Thanks for sharing!
45mil epmd liner, how do you hide folds on curves in your ponds, I don't have stones lining my pond
Adrian Garcia You can tape the folds with seam tape liner if the folds are bothering you.
+Adrian Garcia I have sometimes used Rock On A Roll to hide liner. The tan color matches my favorite rock, and when it gets folded, it looks even more rock-like.
PVC. New liner will be EPDM.
12 year old PVC i am about to replace.
a rubbermaid stock tank...im cheating
My theory is that the dog was playing around with the fish & somehow he pushed the fish over to the pool