The major issue with WASM is DOM access: it's really _really_ slow, so slow that native JS is typically faster. This is changing though, direct DOM access in WASM is a top priority by the looks of things.
Doubt it's an actual issue for this game though, but yes that's totally true if you were to build some interactive website kind of thing, dom access is primordial.
It's been a top priority for a couple years. There's too many cooks in the kitchen with wasm now and everything is done by committee and takes forever.
@@HalfMonty11 Its not up to wasm to implement that though, its the browsers that have to implement direct dom access and define the api's wasm will have to interact with.
I'm not a web person, but surely one of the benefits of WASM is that you don't need the DOM, its kind of the point. You draw to the "screen" and talk to the network and db, synchronously or asynchronously, like a regular native compiled program. And as such there's no necessary jank from dealing with a DOM.
@@pineappleus3031 he made none of the actual stuffs people use today, all that stuff made by other great programmers. This guy,just hobbyist. He is really great tho, just not practical
I like how your videos aren’t interrupted by ads every few minutes. It’s also impressive how fast you’re able to troubleshoot things, it’s like you’re plugged straight into the mainframe of the matrix.
I expected the wasm bundles to be big in size, but they're just 16.7KB, good job! I guess the counter arguments for wasm always assume you're using Emscriptem or a bloated language with a big runtime. Will be interesting to see how this project evolves.
An alternative would be allocating a SharedArray in JS - at least that what ChatGPT suggest, unfortunatelly even then you have to copy it into the ImageData
Things like the first 30min of this video are why I love your channel (besides your sense of humor). I learn in a similar way by trying to understand how/why the things work at a simple level with less moving parts, but even as a noob recreational programmer I'm not as good at any of this type of lower level language stuff yet. It's a great glimpse into how to troubleshoot and work with a compiler like that, glad you're being a bit unconventional and not just using the build system (even though as a noob if I decide to get into C3 eventually I'd probably start with using the build system personally).
The footnote was really interesting! I had similar issues with C++ and I had to call the "initialise" function from my JS in order to get anything "global" working.
1:51:21 I think it comes from the fact that anything to do with games / graphics has a lot more "mystery" to the general audience than, let's say, content aware scaling. The same can be said for programming languages, which is probably why it's one of your most popular series
I'd suggest making a lib that implements functions like fmodf, fminf, fmaxf, etc. and linking it only when making the wasm. This way I guess the performance would be so much better than calling them in JS (but I'm not sure how it does exactly work). The thing is those functions are called a quadrillion times per second, so I think I'd be the best approach. In fact you'll have the implementation on the std lib probably, so you could just copy paste. Btw, the ImageData data property is already a Uint8ClampedArray. Also just out of curiosity I'd compare accessing the buffer from JS to get the image bytes with a function that spits it directly, in the end you'll get a copy of the bytes anyway and my guess is it'll be faster in wasm. Maybe I'm wrong, but my assumption is this would dramatically improve performance.
@@MDMAviation that should happen automatically if you compile the runtime but Tsosin wanted to keep it small to see how the mechanism works (also WASI should provide some of them?)
@@MDMAviation it’s sad that you can’t flip(double buffer) canvas into a shared array without re-setting the InageData - that would really help wasm animations (like it seems to work with WebGL?)
Hello, do you do a type of coding coaching? I really enjoy programming and I am new to c, I originally learned programming through web development (help me) haha
I’m so pleased you managed to leverage C3 and now the game is running at 60fps. I really enjoy and appreciate your videos. A lot of people will learn a lot from your content. Thanks.
Okay, offtop but serious. How did you make a custom title for subtitles? (It shows as "English - Twitch chat" for me) I've tried googling, and found nothing. I know I need this
The performance in my firefox is consistently worse (40fps) than in chrome. It used to be both 60fps, but something changed. Chrome is still 60. I don't know if this is some kind of bug, I don't know how to investigate. EDIT: ah, there's probably nothing happening here. Firefox's javascript is just slower. When the game used to be simpler, my firefox was able to do 60fps and not more, since it's locked by the monitor.
at the end, what would be the real improvement if you didn't put an fps limit? and the streaming conditions would be the same. really good content btw ❤
Can anyone tell me how his terminal expands to show output and then remains a single line when not active? I have scoured his dotfiles but couldn't figure it out
1:10 when people argue that they like javascript (or whatever programming language), most of the time it's just that it's the language they know the most and are scared to go into something they dont know or have to learn new things or cant do the things the way they know how to. So they interpret or express that as being "better".
I personally like JS's object, it's like a Lua table except 40x more powerful and modern. The fake not-fake OOP in it is also perfectly understandable. It's not that bad.
I like javascript (typescript actually) and I worked professionally with js, C#, python and tried on my own C/++, Julia, F#, elixir (each at least one full personal proiect). It's my 2nd favorite language and my favorite language from the ones that you can get paid for using on a commercial project. It's quite expressive, easy to learn but with powerful features/ paradigms for advanced programmers and has a mature ecosystem. If it ever gets rid of the reverse compatibility weirdness and gets and official type system I would have absolutely no complains about the language.
@@Sammysapphira yeah, it's still cool to see him write something in JavaScript and then see it converted to web assembly like that. Cool as hell. Was curious if react or some web framework could start using this to boost web performance.
Would it be OK for you to create a Mastodon account? I am from Brazil and X is unfortunately blocked in my country, but I love your content and I want to know what are you up to 🤣🤣🤣🤣
WebAssembly is a failure by design. You can‘t access the DOM or interact with the Browser directly. Which makes it pretty useless for most things apart from maybe offloading some heavy lifting for performance. I was super hyped but so far only had one use case where it made sense (parsing some file format where there was a library in Rust but none in TypeScript).
The reality is no one cares. You care because you are a nerd and this is how you make money. But in the real world not everyone should use wasm, not even for games.
Figma, Google docs, Photoshop, twitch, zoom, meets, cloudflare, docker, unity, Spotify, Tesla, netflix... List goes on. Wasm is being used, and not very many people know it, you should definitely learn it
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.15 (1/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TLBjiHvkKtE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 86 | คู่เอก "คมเพชร vs ชาติพยัคฆ์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m3q_dRYDuU8/mqdefault.jpg)
'The biggest crime of this game is that it is written entirely in javascript'. Epic.
The best thing I can say if you wan to learn DO NOT FOCUS ON JS and REACT. Javascript was never meant to all this stuff.
@@Joshua.Developer you meant TS?
let me guess you also love Epic Games and Fortnite.
you used the wrong quotes. In real programming you use "" for strings
I just watched the footnote since i watched the stream, I really appreciate mr zozin's content
The major issue with WASM is DOM access: it's really _really_ slow, so slow that native JS is typically faster. This is changing though, direct DOM access in WASM is a top priority by the looks of things.
Doubt it's an actual issue for this game though, but yes that's totally true if you were to build some interactive website kind of thing, dom access is primordial.
It's been a top priority for a couple years. There's too many cooks in the kitchen with wasm now and everything is done by committee and takes forever.
@@HalfMonty11 Its not up to wasm to implement that though, its the browsers that have to implement direct dom access and define the api's wasm will have to interact with.
In that specific case it would be enough to map the canvas to wasm memory
I'm not a web person, but surely one of the benefits of WASM is that you don't need the DOM, its kind of the point. You draw to the "screen" and talk to the network and db, synchronously or asynchronously, like a regular native compiled program. And as such there's no necessary jank from dealing with a DOM.
just write in whatever language and ship your website as subscription service via CD ROM
So this is the guy who design all the leetcode problems.
and he's fucking great
@@pineappleus3031 he made none of the actual stuffs people use today, all that stuff made by other great programmers. This guy,just hobbyist. He is really great tho, just not practical
I like how your videos aren’t interrupted by ads every few minutes.
It’s also impressive how fast you’re able to troubleshoot things, it’s like you’re plugged straight into the mainframe of the matrix.
I expected the wasm bundles to be big in size, but they're just 16.7KB, good job! I guess the counter arguments for wasm always assume you're using Emscriptem or a bloated language with a big runtime. Will be interesting to see how this project evolves.
Nice that you got dynamic allocation working in the end!
An alternative would be allocating a SharedArray in JS - at least that what ChatGPT suggest, unfortunatelly even then you have to copy it into the ImageData
Things like the first 30min of this video are why I love your channel (besides your sense of humor). I learn in a similar way by trying to understand how/why the things work at a simple level with less moving parts, but even as a noob recreational programmer I'm not as good at any of this type of lower level language stuff yet. It's a great glimpse into how to troubleshoot and work with a compiler like that, glad you're being a bit unconventional and not just using the build system (even though as a noob if I decide to get into C3 eventually I'd probably start with using the build system personally).
do not, please, ever, stop making clickbait titles. I love you with all my heart.
The footnote was really interesting! I had similar issues with C++ and I had to call the "initialise" function from my JS in order to get anything "global" working.
1:51:21 I think it comes from the fact that anything to do with games / graphics has a lot more "mystery" to the general audience than, let's say, content aware scaling. The same can be said for programming languages, which is probably why it's one of your most popular series
Title: "Everyone should use WebAssembly"
Intro: "HELLO EVERYONE" 💀
I'd suggest making a lib that implements functions like fmodf, fminf, fmaxf, etc. and linking it only when making the wasm. This way I guess the performance would be so much better than calling them in JS (but I'm not sure how it does exactly work). The thing is those functions are called a quadrillion times per second, so I think I'd be the best approach.
In fact you'll have the implementation on the std lib probably, so you could just copy paste.
Btw, the ImageData data property is already a Uint8ClampedArray.
Also just out of curiosity I'd compare accessing the buffer from JS to get the image bytes with a function that spits it directly, in the end you'll get a copy of the bytes anyway and my guess is it'll be faster in wasm.
Maybe I'm wrong, but my assumption is this would dramatically improve performance.
@@MDMAviation that should happen automatically if you compile the runtime but Tsosin wanted to keep it small to see how the mechanism works (also WASI should provide some of them?)
@@MDMAviation it’s sad that you can’t flip(double buffer) canvas into a shared array without re-setting the InageData - that would really help wasm animations (like it seems to work with WebGL?)
Hello, do you do a type of coding coaching? I really enjoy programming and I am new to c, I originally learned programming through web development (help me) haha
Dhanyavad
Wasm isn't perfect for everything, but it's also pretty dang good for most things. It's a really cool technology
I’m so pleased you managed to leverage C3 and now the game is running at 60fps. I really enjoy and appreciate your videos. A lot of people will learn a lot from your content. Thanks.
okay this was fun!
Nice, next do items in rust, walls in jai etc xD
you can override the webassembly interface in typescript to make it know about your custom methods and the buffer
Thanks for the vid!
я БЛЯДЬ УМЕР на 48:18
сказал же, ёба, падажди стсуко
What does that mean
@@samuraijosh1595 the author says: B**CH HOLD ON A SEC
the commenter says: i was goddamn astonished
@@samuraijosh1595 that means 'wait, fucker' or something like that
ПАДАЖИ ЙОБА
Okay, offtop but serious. How did you make a custom title for subtitles? (It shows as "English - Twitch chat" for me) I've tried googling, and found nothing. I know I need this
You make a regular subtitle file like srt.
The performance in my firefox is consistently worse (40fps) than in chrome. It used to be both 60fps, but something changed. Chrome is still 60. I don't know if this is some kind of bug, I don't know how to investigate.
EDIT: ah, there's probably nothing happening here. Firefox's javascript is just slower. When the game used to be simpler, my firefox was able to do 60fps and not more, since it's locked by the monitor.
ah yes, my man is back
WebAssembly is not something you "use". It's simply just compile target.
Can you implement the rollback netcode ? i know its hard but i think you can do it
lovely recreational programming session ❤
Where did you learn computer graphics ?
shouldve written it in zig
at the end, what would be the real improvement if you didn't put an fps limit? and the streaming conditions would be the same. really good content btw ❤
@@joaquinfontana7135 there are enough known optiksatins that it’s not worth to worry about the fps just yet (for example inlining the fabs functions)
Who else watches tsoding on 2x?
when I have the focus to keep up withit
who on 3x?
@@bibliusz777 who scans the compressed mp4 bytes?
Can anyone tell me how his terminal expands to show output and then remains a single line when not active? I have scoured his dotfiles but couldn't figure it out
"Porn Folder: 43.1 GiB (too smol PepeHands)" 😭
1:33:07 lol bitrate was not happy about that
everybody wasm ganxta until pointers go brrrr
POG
embedded programming when
Does that mean WASM is better than C? Oh no! I'm getting a spwasm!
I agree
Thank you....
Very interesting.
New Stream YAY
This game actually runs at 120 FPS on my phone
😮 holy moly
1:10 when people argue that they like javascript (or whatever programming language), most of the time it's just that it's the language they know the most and are scared to go into something they dont know or have to learn new things or cant do the things the way they know how to. So they interpret or express that as being "better".
I personally like JS's object, it's like a Lua table except 40x more powerful and modern. The fake not-fake OOP in it is also perfectly understandable. It's not that bad.
I like javascript (typescript actually) and I worked professionally with js, C#, python and tried on my own C/++, Julia, F#, elixir (each at least one full personal proiect). It's my 2nd favorite language and my favorite language from the ones that you can get paid for using on a commercial project. It's quite expressive, easy to learn but with powerful features/ paradigms for advanced programmers and has a mature ecosystem. If it ever gets rid of the reverse compatibility weirdness and gets and official type system I would have absolutely no complains about the language.
Start watching on 21:40, can anyone say me where is beat from?
Darude - Sandstorm
I'm probably off the mark but what with the cuppa tea it reminds me of Bottom - Gas man by Guru mediator
doesnt help w/ non-standard text
LOCKED 60 FPS in the end. awesomee
wasnt streaming
@@Czeckie Or he implemented some faster code in the mean time and spoilered it.
1:07:41 Я бы объявил функцию RGBA в СЗ выше, возвращающую цвет.)))
What is WebAssembly for? Is this JS?
it's for making hard computations fast
@@MaximShershen so why don't all websites use this?
@@bbrother92 every website do use javascript as main tool for manipulating with DOM.
damn, he went from 38-40fps in JavaScript to capping at 60fps in web assembly
Duh? Javascript isn't meant for graphics rendering
@@Sammysapphira yeah, it's still cool to see him write something in JavaScript and then see it converted to web assembly like that. Cool as hell. Was curious if react or some web framework could start using this to boost web performance.
It was 60 at the end because he didn't stream, not because of c3
zig
No zigooners allowed
I miss Nob
Would it be OK for you to create a Mastodon account? I am from Brazil and X is unfortunately blocked in my country, but I love your content and I want to know what are you up to 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Epic wasm club
I remember looking at wasm around 2018 I believe
haha this man is a genius
right
mmmmm Nu.
Imma use electron-vite.
2:17:23 que loco!
next time use Odin!
Я не знаю англійської, але звучить ніби ти дуже круто щось пояснюєш
2:14:20 15 28
0.1 seconds 0 views lil bro fell off
blud thought he was cooking
This comment trend fell off less than two days after it started. That was a long time ago. You're a lame late spammer.
Is this the new "first"?
@@juniorceccon did you mean "drop-in replacement"? Yeah it seems
@@juniorcecconit’s quite old actually. Haven’t seen such a comment in a while.
🎉 what is this
Stockholm syndrome. 🤣
WebAssembly is a failure by design. You can‘t access the DOM or interact with the Browser directly. Which makes it pretty useless for most things apart from maybe offloading some heavy lifting for performance. I was super hyped but so far only had one use case where it made sense (parsing some file format where there was a library in Rust but none in TypeScript).
#StopKillingGames
"You like Stockholm syndrome" said the guy that programs in C and uses JavaScript for other than its main purposes and it works.
He actually has Stockholm syndrome with C. Its okay I have that too.
@@theevilcottonball I know. I meant it partially as a compliment. I love C but I couldn't actually do what he does. It's impressive.
Jesus Christ loves you. He died on the cross for all our sin.
The reality is no one cares. You care because you are a nerd and this is how you make money. But in the real world not everyone should use wasm, not even for games.
Figma, Google docs, Photoshop, twitch, zoom, meets, cloudflare, docker, unity, Spotify, Tesla, netflix... List goes on. Wasm is being used, and not very many people know it, you should definitely learn it
Learn flutter bro it is better.
#notForJobInAmerica.
flutter deez nutszz
It's good on native devices but it sucks in the browser
@@ZedDevStuff Good on native devices is enough for me. But the performance on browsers is not that bad after loading.