Thank you. All I could focus on was the label on the top! I want to know how much they cost, and what store still individually prices cans! Sorry, I'll be quiet now.
Not boring at all. I love how you talk of your practice with such care and precision. You clearly measure your words with same care as you measure your surface plate.
Robrenz it is the educational kind of Yacking. Not boring to me at all. I'm always in the mood to listen to you and learn from you. Thanks for taking your time to help us learn.
The sharp carbide buttons are a great idea, but if you use them, make very sure to slide the tooling on the plate carefully and using the proper technique -- every time (of course, we should be doing that already...) If not, there will be little chips taken out of the plate by the sharp corners.
I would love to be your apprentice. Thank you for sharing your knowledge Robin. You think you're not an expert, and your reasons are fair (and modest,) but to many of us you are.
You are the perfect example of youtube recommandation gone awry, I was just watching a perfectly reasonable Keith Fenner doing marine shafting and general "a few thou" reparations, and now I'm here watching an extremist spending hours discussing diamond grit sizes, temp gradients and millionth's of an inch. Thank you. You are giving information for cheap that was before only in very available in expensive textbooks.
Robin, please, please please dont let the people out there that always know better get to you! Me, and I'm sure many many other people gain some knowledge from what you are doing! And if, there is a procedure that you practice that I dont agree with, its my problem, not yours!! Thank you very much for the time you take from a busy schedule to make these videos! Much appreciated Ian
Wow! That was a fast half an hour. Your humility before the alter of striving for excellence is heartening, and in my sight, laudable. The humble mind is open to learning: the person who already "knows" already knows and can not learn except by accident. You have a fortunate son who most certainly has a fortunate father. And, thanks for sharing.
You realy have excellent skills and knowledge. There is far too much skill, craft and knowledge being lost in our trade and I thank you immensely for sharing your video's with the world.
Loved the video! It's odd, some people (NOT me) like watching folks dribble a basketball up and down the floor. I like watching a guy rub a chunk of metal on a chunk of rock to make the rock flat, and explaining the process.
Your technical understanding of the various processes involved in getting the results you desire is well above my pay grade. Needless to say I am educated every time I watch your videos. Thanks Robin for another good one! I learned a lot from your explanation. Appreciate your humility!
Thanks for taking the time Robin, to explain and enlighten us on the nuances of lapping and precision. You are very humble regarding your knowledge and your expertice. In my book that makes you some one to take knowledge from. So many cocksure people out there not knowing one thing from the other. We're about the same age (well you might be a bit younger), and in my engineering work I always felt that other people in my trade was so much better than me. That just made me work much harder to learn more, and to be better. It never stops, there is always more knowledge to be found. In short: I like your style, and I enjoy listening and learning from you
You are a VERY humble man. I really enjoy watching your videos. You clearly have a lot of knowledge about many things, I especially like your attention for details and ability to take all those small things into consideration. I really look forward to seeing the end result of your surface plate journey. Best regards Steinar
This was super enriching Robin. I had (almost) every one of those questions at least somewhat in my mind after watching the first video, and it really multiplied the learning experience to have you walk through. I'm so grateful to you for providing this resource. I'm down for watching whatever you put up, but this one was a very good choice, content-wise, in my view :)
This is ridiculously informative and entertaining. There is so much going on. So much of it is non-intuitive if not informed by facts. I love your videos. Thanks so much for the insights and information!
You may not think you are an expert. I'll have you know that after watching hours of videos on machining and listening to you. You are more of an expert than you think you are sir. Do not sell yourself short. Much respect.
I find myself looking forward to the next episode in this series as much any episode of 24 / Dexter / etc ever did, and your content holds my attention completely. I am sure it was probably not planned but tantalising us with a description of the "RenzoMeter" in ep1 and a glimpse in ep2 has left me salivating for the full explanation. great work + thanks.
Ascedorf a I am always waiting patiently for the next episode also. Like a few others on here he is teaching something that is unique . After watching thousands of milling machine and lathe videos it is like watching everybody bake the same cake over and over again. I love seeing him on the surface grinder. An old tool and die maker that worked for me used to tell me that grinding was the most efficient way to remove material. Robin has demonstrated this in some of his earlier videos. He certainly has earned my respect and attention.
I appreciate safety measures that you take, and the good example you’re setting. I’ve seen guys not wearing safety glasses while op a machine or they’re walking around their in flip flop. You rock sir.
Great video as always, Robin! I actually went by my old shop again this week to continue trying to convince them to sell me some old equipment they haven't used in over a decade including a black granite Mitutoyo plate and a cast iron plate. I'll wear them down over time (there's a lapping joke in there somewhere...). Cheers!
As always another interesting and very informative video Robin. And I think you being far too modest. Maybe it's an age thing, but I quickly learned to be a bit patient while watching some of the best in the YT machinist community. Anyone like Yourself, Tom, Adam, Brian, Keith and many others do know what there doing and that anything that might not be immediately apparent in one video usually becomes clear and logical over a few more videos. Trying to second guess someone highly knowledgeable without having all the information they do never works out well. :-) I've been in mining for a lot of years and yes it's obvious that silica isn't good for you. But if anyone who's concerned about it would do a little research it takes decades of breathing high concentrations of the dust to develop silicosis. Yes you should be proactive in protecting your lungs, but the little that would get stirred up while flattening this plate can be pretty much ignored.
Brian Bloc or bcbloc02 for the channel name. And the ones you mentioned would have been covered by my "many others". Anyone subscribed to Robins channel would I'm sure know of all the ones we both mentioned.
A very smart and clever guy ajtrvll. Most of his videos in the last 2 + years are of him single handedly rebuilding an old falling down tobacco barn into a new shop. He does some custom engine components for tractor pulling among other things. He's just starting to move some equipment into the new shop so people like us should find something of interest on his channel. Jan Sverre Haugjord would be another good channel for very high accuracy machine tool rebuilding if that interests you.
Just wanted to check in and say "thank you" for taking the time to do this. Even if you're not an expert, between your experience and the comments down here I think we're all getting educated... and having the opportunity to start thinking about the many variables that are involved in precision work.
Excited video Robin! Thanks for sheeding more light on those questions. I love that your anwers are full of well explained content and never once the mention of "just because" or I've been doing this for X years. It's the sign a true master. I think the hardest part of designing or analizing anything is the application of constraints. In the first video it was so easy to get hung up on the intro to diff levels. But the stiffness of the plate like you said got bumped into the whole system. I litterly hit my self in the for head saying of course the loads on the plate are negligable. Ahhahh moment achieved!
I suppose that pros don't use grooved laps as a matter of safety margin. Once the layer of dust floats the lap enough to affect cutting it's probably a good point at which to stop and check their work. Being able to feel and hear the change in cutting action likely helps prevent too much material removal.
Humility like that is why you garner such appreciative loyalty among us viewers. You might not view yourself as an expert but with over half a century of experience most of us would be pushing it to consider ourselves enthusiastic amateurs by comparison. Thanks for the video, Mr Renzetti. I always look forward to virtual apprenticing on your channel. That guy's idea about unlimited funds would be great!! :)
I must have seen these videos at least 3 times and I am still learning new things each time. Each time I am leaning forward on the tip of my chair so I don't miss even one word 😁
The economics of getting a plate certified versus scrapping it and buying a new one can be extrapolated to how a lot of machine tools find their way into home shops. Simply because a machine tool is beyond its useful life in terms of profitable operation doesn’t mean it is beyond its useful life to make useful parts given enough “free” labor by the home hobbyist to keep the machine running to useful tolerances. One need only look at any given shaper running in a home shop to see that principle in operation.
Thank you for addressing others concerns. You certainly have a way of presenting material that could not offend anyone. Another informative interesting video, don't sell yourself short you know what you are talking about.
Robin, the work you do, the way you explain your techniques and challenge your own beliefs/knowledge is surely a sign of a committed practitioner. At this point i would like to give a massive shout out to Stephen Hawking, who, like you, challenged norms and previously accepted wisdom. We can only be grateful we were able to share some of his lifetime. Please keep up these challenging videos they are a real source of wonder and amazement to many of your viewers. Most sincerely. Kindest regards. Joe.
Hi Robin, You're one of the very few that will keep me sitting for over 30 minutes listening at a complete video... (Actually 17 minutes 1 second, twice the speed... ) Guess that every time we disturb something on our side of the planet, the Chinese "feel it" and vice versa... Interesting.... ;) Great source of reflections on the subject in one video, glad you shared. Cheers, Pierre
I am a glutton for punishment? Your types of wisdom, common sense and reasoning are a delight to hear and watch. But am anxiously awaiting the next video. When can we expect to see it?
Thank you. I really enjoy the feedback of a Comments Q&A video. I know that it takes you far more time to do it this way, but it brings out some of the nuanced points into clearer detail. And BTW you use the shower curtains to limit distraction, and then you input a can of olives into the scene. All I could focus on was the label on top. Great work, thank you for your time and efforts. R.J.
Thanks Robin. Excellent recap. Theory and practice makes for understanding - as you have kindly shown us. Some folks would gripe if they were given everything for free. _Dan_
Thanks Rob, I love how in depth the conversation is. Reminds me I may still have critical thinking skills. I have a question with no condescending intent at all: If getting your checking instruments correct includes compensating for things like leaning on the table, where is that kind of accuracy in a part - important?? Is it accuracy for accuracy's sake?? I had a family friend that had a career machining for a nuclear trigger plant. He said once that they would take the engineering plans and cut the tolerances by a factor of 100, and in one phase of the project they were scrapping parts based on the time of day they were made. It eventually was discovered this effect was because a coal train would pass by a mile away. I always thought, is that level of tolerance really important? Thanks for the vids, another great series!
I don't know any independently wealthy benefactors who would go for that deal (too bad), but there is another way to accomplish it, more or less: crowdsourced through Patreon. I don't have many subscriptions there but you would absolutely be on my list. I've searched and your name doesn't come up. You don't need to pitch it in your videos. Just create the account and those who want to repay just a little of what we've gained from your wisdom will find you. Think of it as just money for materials for projects if you're resistant to the idea.
i chose a career in machining, of course I'm a glutton for punishment. excellent video, i actually have an idea on charging some conical laps for cleaning up a heat treated surface after the first two videos
Hi Robin, You being able to explain afterwards what you explained in the first instance makes me confident in that you know what you talks about, a good old carbide sharp edged thumbs up to you.
I have had some instructors thatcould make the secrets of tje universe boring. You are definitely of the small group who could / can make reading the back of a match packet or in this case making a stone flat interesting. Thanks Will
"I'm only after .005" - what's the point? .... you need to have a process that is technically correct" I'll use your own words to sum up this video ... and your entire channel. Thanks for taking the time for this Robin.
I have learned a lot more today, I like your common sense approach we should all know it cannot be perfect something we attempt to achieve. Good video I am waiting for some more. regards, Ted.
Nice points Robin, the carbide feet view is new on me, makes good sense. Had to laugh when you mentioned some guys getting their panties in bunch about the last video, popcorn ready and off to enjoy the show lol.
Nope, it was not boring. But it was informative and interesting. It's been a while since I paid such close attention to a half hour long technical talk. I was one of those people concerned about the plate at rest warping the stone. What you said makes sense, and it is obvious that the calibration people considered this long ago.
Robin. You may not be an expert but from what I've seen of your work, you have no need to apologize or explain your methods. In the end I am quite sure you plate will be perfect. You're that kind of person. Excellent videos. Thanks and keep smiling.
I worked at an outfit where they had a laser interferometer set up on a granite plate about 6x10x2 feet and if you placed your hand gently on it body heat would warp it enough to be detected on the interferometer. Yup they flex. Blew me away.
Very informative i could watch your videos for hours,don't know what that says about me,but you have a way of getting your point across in a very easy to understand way.Keep up the good work and hopefully some rich person will finance you, we all wish for a rich benifactor ..
Great video! I really like watching the work and then hearing people’s question get answered. I helps me better understand the topic better. Keep the videos coming! Thanks for your time and effort in doing them.
Lapping can be soooo very enjoyable , (though quite frustrating at times ). I've designed a rather large number of faceted gemstone cuts. . . with a worn out machine , so I'm painfully aware of the micro nuances of pressure & angles to hold as rigidly as possible.. *I believe the term , 'cheat you blind' is in reference to making micro adjustments to angles , while doing final cuts with finer grits; ESPECIALLY in the process of polishing !!! Where angles meet to form point intersections can be very challenging, especially when dozens of facets meet at that point. I've found that using a halogen bulb of 50 watts to be just right for illuminating facets during polishing, & that 20 power magnification gives unreal results. I've learned through trials , that working to a single wavelength of light is possible 'by eye' . . . through visually making the reflected color of a facet the same as it's 'fellow' facets at the same angle ! I've often used hard stones as my charging tool. Mineral oil works very well to disperse / and distribute diamond grit over the surface of the lap. I use copper laps that can be very tricky to work with . Sometimes , 'less is more', when charging laps ! * Overly charged laps tend to cause 'floating' of the lap, instead of cutting . Great work, Robin - 'Looking forward to your continued progress !
Thanks, all good points you bring up. I have never done faceting of gemstones but I completely understand the issues with facets intersecting properly. I am glad its you doing them :-) Thanks for watching and commenting.
A true expert in "leveling" a surface plate who repeatedly asserts that anything that touches a surface plate "distorts" and "bends" it therefore making a surface plate pretty much impossible to "level" since you can't "level" it with "nothing". How does the "level" plate stay "level" or "flat" with parts and tools on it for "measurement"?
Robin, after watching this, I have another question. Do I need to switch from canned peaches to a can of pitted olives? My lapping keeping coming out a bit out of spec, and I am looking for answers.
My understanding is the Figure 8 pattern is used to constantly change the leading edge of the lap, or part if lap is stationary, in relation to the direction of motion. Moving the lap or part straight back and forth tends wear the ends. This tendency is averaged by the figure 8 motion. The lap and piece being lapped still need to be turned and spun around with regards to the lapper in regular intervals to compensate for unavoidable variations and bias in technique Although not entirely the same, this also applies to stoning a part. Stones moved straight back and forth wear into convex or low on the ends, and things sharpened or flatted on the stone tend to have rounded edges and corners. Lapping machines have the lap and parts along with the wear rings moving in counter rotation to one another, which negates this.
Great video. I understand the concept of everything moves but I don't know the techniques to minimize the distortion. Your talk helps fill in the practical side. Thank You!
Thank you for the video! I'm proud to be the only 21 year old I know who is fascinated by setup plates! Im obsessed with flatness, which means there's no way I can afford the milling machine that has the accuracy I would like to have!
One minor point, but like repeatability vs flatness, one that I have seen causes confusion, is regarding "certification". Unless things are drastically different in the US compared to elsewhere in the world I'd respectfully suggest Robin Renzetti does not hold the authority to "certify" that plate ... or any other plate for that matter ;) Nor would the Renzetti-meter be approved for that purpose. Both could arguably be achieved by jumping through the appropriate bureaucratic hoops, but I doubt that will be done. That doesn't of course mean that it can't be proven to one's own satisfaction to meet the required specification using any method one likes, it's just that it will not technically be "certified" to that standard and that would need to come from an approved authority. It may seem like a moot point, but it's not at all for organisations who need to produce products to meet a specific standard and require their metrology equipment to be within current certification.
Pete F - Fair point. Personally, if given the choice between a marketplace certified plate and a one-off Renzetti-certified plate, I would choose the latter without hesitation.
Well, a certificate of traceable calibration certifies that the calibration chain is unbroken back to a national standards bureau, which in turn used approved methods to create standards conformant to the SI. That chain of traceability is important for many users, especially those who need to prove legally that their equipment meets the standards.
SAI Peregrinus - Agreed, but how many individuals are involved in this process of certification, and how many plates does each one certify every week? People make mistakes. I'd wager a one-off Renzetti-certified plate is more likely to be on-spec than (almost) any marketplace certified plate. ... I probably should wipe the brown off my nose, lol.
Likely just the same number of people involved in the certification as are involved in Robin's checking ie one! Because of the process involved in certification, the likelihood of a mistake being made in certifying a surface plate is very low indeed. As mentioned, the entire metrology chain involved in that calibration has been checked and is in itself certified. In practice a decent lab will likely be using differential levels that auto-input to the software. The Union Jack pattern used is not coincidental and where each line crossed the errors obtained by each independent line will be compared and anomalies detected by the software automatically. None of this is to take anything away from Robin, nor alternative techniques he's developed. He is an extremely careful worker and has inspired me to work better. It's just that the word "certification" has a specific meaning, and it's not a synonym for accuracy or measuring, though it involves checking both.
@ROBRENZ You got a whole lot of flak for the last video, and this one, but I'd really like to see a continuation of this. I think everyone has figured out this was as much a learning experience for you as for us.
Perfect, answered all my questions about part 1 and some I hadn't thought of. Keep'em coming, and if I hit the lottery You will be the second on my list. Thanks
Humble and brilliant. Talk away. Anyone who can't be bothered to listen is missing out.
Didnt fall asleep, but watch it twice :)
Are those special toolmaker olives?
Talk to you soon.
Tom
Thank you. All I could focus on was the label on the top! I want to know how much they cost, and what store still individually prices cans! Sorry, I'll be quiet now.
Popeye had Spinach for the tough spots, I have olives :-)
ATB, Robin
Popeye also had Olive Oyl for the tender spots 😉
Ahhh mr Lipton, when can we, the viewers, expect a new video from you???
YES... you are missed, Mr. Lipton.
Not boring at all. I love how you talk of your practice with such care and precision. You clearly measure your words with same care as you measure your surface plate.
Robrenz it is the educational kind of Yacking. Not boring to me at all. I'm always in the mood to listen to you and learn from you. Thanks for taking your time to help us learn.
Thank you Robin. I enjoyed the talk just as much as the actual lapping 👌👍
Thanks Steve and thanks for watching and commenting,
ATB, Robin
So once you perfect your technique when did you say we were doing my 4ftx6ft plate? :-)
The sharp carbide buttons are a great idea, but if you use them, make very sure to slide the tooling on the plate carefully and using the proper technique -- every time (of course, we should be doing that already...) If not, there will be little chips taken out of the plate by the sharp corners.
I would love to be your apprentice. Thank you for sharing your knowledge Robin. You think you're not an expert, and your reasons are fair (and modest,) but to many of us you are.
Renzetti apprenticeship: take a number, Brubaker! 😉
+1
Damn, there's already a list?
the shortest 34:02 minutes video I ever watched - just excellent - thanks a million for sharing your thoughts and knowledge
You are the perfect example of youtube recommandation gone awry, I was just watching a perfectly reasonable Keith Fenner doing marine shafting and general "a few thou" reparations, and now I'm here watching an extremist spending hours discussing diamond grit sizes, temp gradients and millionth's of an inch. Thank you. You are giving information for cheap that was before only in very available in expensive textbooks.
Hi Robin,
I really enjoyed the video. You have a gift for teaching and I appreciate your willingness to share with us.
Steve
Thanks Steve, I appreciate what you share also.
ATB, Robin
Robin, please, please please dont let the people out there that always know better get to you! Me, and I'm sure many many other people gain some knowledge from what you are doing!
And if, there is a procedure that you practice that I dont agree with, its my problem, not yours!!
Thank you very much for the time you take from a busy schedule to make these videos!
Much appreciated
Ian
Wow! That was a fast half an hour. Your humility before the alter of striving for excellence is heartening, and in my sight, laudable. The humble mind is open to learning: the person who already "knows" already knows and can not learn except by accident. You have a fortunate son who most certainly has a fortunate father. And, thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the very kind words and thanks for watching and commenting.
EXCELLENT VIDIO AGAIN WELL DONE ROBIN KEEP THEM COMING
You realy have excellent skills and knowledge. There is far too much skill, craft and knowledge being lost in our trade and I thank you immensely for sharing your video's with the world.
Allways educational, allways informative, just keep it up Robin, many thanks
Loved the video! It's odd, some people (NOT me) like watching folks dribble a basketball up and down the floor. I like watching a guy rub a chunk of metal on a chunk of rock to make the rock flat, and explaining the process.
Amen
Your technical understanding of the various processes involved in getting the results you desire is well above my pay grade. Needless to say I am educated every time I watch your videos. Thanks Robin for another good one! I learned a lot from your explanation. Appreciate your humility!
Robin, if you're not an expert, there is no such thing as an expert.
Thanks for taking the time Robin, to explain and enlighten us on the nuances of lapping and precision. You are very humble regarding your knowledge and your expertice. In my book that makes you some one to take knowledge from. So many cocksure people out there not knowing one thing from the other. We're about the same age (well you might be a bit younger), and in my engineering work I always felt that other people in my trade was so much better than me. That just made me work much harder to learn more, and to be better. It never stops, there is always more knowledge to be found. In short: I like your style, and I enjoy listening and learning from you
Great comment on the sharp carbide feet, I may never lap a plate but I love the little tid bits like that I learn from you.
You are a VERY humble man. I really enjoy watching your videos. You clearly have a lot of knowledge about many things, I especially like your attention for details and ability to take all those small things into consideration. I really look forward to seeing the end result of your surface plate journey.
Best regards
Steinar
Excellent session. Thank you Robin.
I swear I've watched the first video 3 or 4 times, can't get enough!
being questioned and asking questions is one of the best ways to learn.
As I grow older, I have learned I know less than I use too. Ignorant dogs can learn new tricks if they’re not ignorant. Thanks for the videos!
Ignorance is fine, its when were unaware of own ignorance it becomes a problem. Im as ignorant as they come ;)
This was super enriching Robin. I had (almost) every one of those questions at least somewhat in my mind after watching the first video, and it really multiplied the learning experience to have you walk through. I'm so grateful to you for providing this resource. I'm down for watching whatever you put up, but this one was a very good choice, content-wise, in my view :)
This is ridiculously informative and entertaining. There is so much going on. So much of it is non-intuitive if not informed by facts. I love your videos. Thanks so much for the insights and information!
Oh you also had to re watch to just have all the info settle
You may not think you are an expert. I'll have you know that after watching hours of videos on machining and listening to you. You are more of an expert than you think you are sir. Do not sell yourself short. Much respect.
Thanks for the kind words, It's not a good idea to think too highly of ones self :-)
I find myself looking forward to the next episode in this series as much any episode of 24 / Dexter / etc ever did, and your content holds my attention completely. I am sure it was probably not planned but tantalising us with a description of the "RenzoMeter" in ep1 and a glimpse in ep2 has left me salivating for the full explanation. great work + thanks.
Ascedorf a I am always waiting patiently for the next episode also. Like a few others on here he is teaching something that is unique . After watching thousands of milling machine and lathe videos it is like watching everybody bake the same cake over and over again. I love seeing him on the surface grinder. An old tool and die maker that worked for me used to tell me that grinding was the most efficient way to remove material. Robin has demonstrated this in some of his earlier videos. He certainly has earned my respect and attention.
I appreciate safety measures that you take, and the good example you’re setting. I’ve seen guys not wearing safety glasses while op a machine or they’re walking around their in flip flop. You rock sir.
Great video as always, Robin! I actually went by my old shop again this week to continue trying to convince them to sell me some old equipment they haven't used in over a decade including a black granite Mitutoyo plate and a cast iron plate. I'll wear them down over time (there's a lapping joke in there somewhere...). Cheers!
You are far more patient than I am with questions and my hat is off to you for your tenor and responses.
As always another interesting and very informative video Robin. And I think you being far too modest. Maybe it's an age thing, but I quickly learned to be a bit patient while watching some of the best in the YT machinist community. Anyone like Yourself, Tom, Adam, Brian, Keith and many others do know what there doing and that anything that might not be immediately apparent in one video usually becomes clear and logical over a few more videos. Trying to second guess someone highly knowledgeable without having all the information they do never works out well. :-)
I've been in mining for a lot of years and yes it's obvious that silica isn't good for you. But if anyone who's concerned about it would do a little research it takes decades of breathing high concentrations of the dust to develop silicosis. Yes you should be proactive in protecting your lungs, but the little that would get stirred up while flattening this plate can be pretty much ignored.
Who's this Brian?
To the list, I would add Stefan, Chris and Dan.
Brian Bloc or bcbloc02 for the channel name. And the ones you mentioned would have been covered by my "many others". Anyone subscribed to Robins channel would I'm sure know of all the ones we both mentioned.
Turning Point - Thanks! I did not know of Brian Bloc (bcbloc02)... will check him out.
A very smart and clever guy ajtrvll. Most of his videos in the last 2 + years are of him single handedly rebuilding an old falling down tobacco barn into a new shop. He does some custom engine components for tractor pulling among other things. He's just starting to move some equipment into the new shop so people like us should find something of interest on his channel.
Jan Sverre Haugjord would be another good channel for very high accuracy machine tool rebuilding if that interests you.
You are the Socrates of mechanics :) keep the good content up!!!
Rob even though you're way over my head for my home shop raggety machines I still learn a lot from you and I appreciate it thank you
Loved it! 30 minutes flew by! Thanks for sharing all the answers to the questions you received. Keep up the good work!
Thanks for addressing my questions. I appreciated each of the 34 minutes.
Nice answers. Keep up the great work!
Just wanted to check in and say "thank you" for taking the time to do this. Even if you're not an expert, between your experience and the comments down here I think we're all getting educated... and having the opportunity to start thinking about the many variables that are involved in precision work.
Excited video Robin! Thanks for sheeding more light on those questions. I love that your anwers are full of well explained content and never once the mention of "just because" or I've been doing this for X years. It's the sign a true master. I think the hardest part of designing or analizing anything is the application of constraints. In the first video it was so easy to get hung up on the intro to diff levels. But the stiffness of the plate like you said got bumped into the whole system. I litterly hit my self in the for head saying of course the loads on the plate are negligable. Ahhahh moment achieved!
I suppose that pros don't use grooved laps as a matter of safety margin. Once the layer of dust floats the lap enough to affect cutting it's probably a good point at which to stop and check their work. Being able to feel and hear the change in cutting action likely helps prevent too much material removal.
Humility like that is why you garner such appreciative loyalty among us viewers. You might not view yourself as an expert but with over half a century of experience most of us would be pushing it to consider ourselves enthusiastic amateurs by comparison. Thanks for the video, Mr Renzetti. I always look forward to virtual apprenticing on your channel. That guy's idea about unlimited funds would be great!! :)
I must have seen these videos at least 3 times and I am still learning new things each time.
Each time I am leaning forward on the tip of my chair so I don't miss even one word 😁
Glad to help
Thanks for your efforts - I'm sure I'm not the only one enjoys them.
F Terry Smith - No... you most definitely are not the only one. 😁
The economics of getting a plate certified versus scrapping it and buying a new one can be extrapolated to how a lot of machine tools find their way into home shops. Simply because a machine tool is beyond its useful life in terms of profitable operation doesn’t mean it is beyond its useful life to make useful parts given enough “free” labor by the home hobbyist to keep the machine running to useful tolerances. One need only look at any given shaper running in a home shop to see that principle in operation.
Thank you for thanking the time to answer the temperature question. It gives me much to think about for setting up my future workspace.
Thank you for addressing others concerns. You certainly have a way of presenting material that could not offend anyone. Another informative interesting video, don't sell yourself short you know what you are talking about.
Robin, the work you do, the way you explain your techniques and challenge your own beliefs/knowledge is surely a sign of a committed practitioner. At this point i would like to give a massive shout out to Stephen Hawking, who, like you, challenged norms and previously accepted wisdom. We can only be grateful we were able to share some of his lifetime. Please keep up these challenging videos they are a real source of wonder and amazement to many of your viewers. Most sincerely. Kindest regards. Joe.
Thanks for the very kind words Joe, Hope to contribute till I drop also.
ATB, Robin
Hi Robin,
You're one of the very few that will keep me sitting for over 30 minutes listening at a complete video... (Actually 17 minutes 1 second, twice the speed... )
Guess that every time we disturb something on our side of the planet, the Chinese "feel it" and vice versa... Interesting.... ;)
Great source of reflections on the subject in one video, glad you shared.
Cheers, Pierre
Thanks Pierre, that just shows you have poor judgement on what you watch :-)
Thanks for watching and commenting.
ATB, Robin
LOL...!!!
I am a glutton for punishment? Your types of wisdom, common sense and reasoning are a delight to hear and watch. But am anxiously awaiting the next video. When can we expect to see it?
I feel calm, enlightened and happy now. Thank you Robin!
I enjoyed the video Robin!
Thank you. I really enjoy the feedback of a Comments Q&A video. I know that it takes you far more time to do it this way, but it brings out some of the nuanced points into clearer detail. And BTW you use the shower curtains to limit distraction, and then you input a can of olives into the scene. All I could focus on was the label on top. Great work, thank you for your time and efforts. R.J.
Thanks Robin. Excellent recap. Theory and practice makes for understanding - as you have kindly shown us. Some folks would gripe if they were given everything for free.
_Dan_
The vid is a gold mine of insight, as usual.
Glutton here.
Keep going Rob.
I shall never use the knowledge per sé but enjoying understanding the nuances of precision measurement.
Some folks are allergic to glutten.
Some pretend to be allergic to it.
Personally, I'm glutton for glutten. 😉
Steve Williams - Wait a minute... what about my joke?... leaving me to hang, are you?
Another gem! Thanks for your humble sharing of smarts. 😄
Thanks Rob, I love how in depth the conversation is. Reminds me I may still have critical thinking skills. I have a question with no condescending intent at all: If getting your checking instruments correct includes compensating for things like leaning on the table, where is that kind of accuracy in a part - important?? Is it accuracy for accuracy's sake?? I had a family friend that had a career machining for a nuclear trigger plant. He said once that they would take the engineering plans and cut the tolerances by a factor of 100, and in one phase of the project they were scrapping parts based on the time of day they were made. It eventually was discovered this effect was because a coal train would pass by a mile away. I always thought, is that level of tolerance really important? Thanks for the vids, another great series!
Great little series you have going here, looking forward to part 2!
I don't know any independently wealthy benefactors who would go for that deal (too bad), but there is another way to accomplish it, more or less: crowdsourced through Patreon. I don't have many subscriptions there but you would absolutely be on my list. I've searched and your name doesn't come up. You don't need to pitch it in your videos. Just create the account and those who want to repay just a little of what we've gained from your wisdom will find you. Think of it as just money for materials for projects if you're resistant to the idea.
i chose a career in machining, of course I'm a glutton for punishment. excellent video, i actually have an idea on charging some conical laps for cleaning up a heat treated surface after the first two videos
Hi Robin, You being able to explain afterwards what you explained in the first instance makes me confident in that you know what you talks about, a good old carbide sharp edged thumbs up to you.
Thanks Robin, especially the part about not using the same hardness for lap and the piece to be lapped was interesting to know.
Learned a lot from this video!!!! Thanks Robin for sharing it.
Awesome! Really enjoy you videos. Your physical and mental attention to detail is a pleasure to watch in action.
Great video, very informative, thanks Rob..
I have had some instructors thatcould make the secrets of tje universe boring. You are definitely of the small group who could / can make reading the back of a match packet or in this case making a stone flat interesting.
Thanks Will
Brilliant explanation Rob 👍 looking forward to more work on the plate.
Alan.
"I'm only after .005" - what's the point? .... you need to have a process that is technically correct" I'll use your own words to sum up this video ... and your entire channel. Thanks for taking the time for this Robin.
Thanks Justin and thanks for watching and commenting!
ATB, Robin
Great info Robin, you attention to detail is very inspiring.
Another awesome show... Thank you for sharing your time and many talents!
I have learned a lot more today, I like your common sense approach we should all know it cannot be perfect something we attempt to achieve. Good video I am waiting for some more. regards, Ted.
Nice points Robin, the carbide feet view is new on me, makes good sense. Had to laugh when you mentioned some guys getting their panties in bunch about the last video, popcorn ready and off to enjoy the show lol.
Can't wait to see how you use the Ripe Pitted Olives in this process. :)
Dirty martinis are highly recommended after a hard day's night working on the lap.
The ridge around the bottom of the can keeps it from becoming convex during the lapping, and olives in brine are good dampeners against chatter... 8^)
Nope, it was not boring. But it was informative and interesting. It's been a while since I paid such close attention to a half hour long technical talk. I was one of those people concerned about the plate at rest warping the stone. What you said makes sense, and it is obvious that the calibration people considered this long ago.
Robin. You may not be an expert but from what I've seen of your work, you have no need to apologize or explain your methods.
In the end I am quite sure you plate will be perfect. You're that kind of person. Excellent videos. Thanks and keep smiling.
I worked at an outfit where they had a laser interferometer set up on a granite plate about 6x10x2 feet and if you placed your hand gently on it body heat would warp it enough to be detected on the interferometer. Yup they flex. Blew me away.
Yea thats what I want, a plate and metrology tooling that can measure atomic scale!
Like the man said: when doing high precision, everything is rubber.
😔
Very informative i could watch your videos for hours,don't know what that says about me,but you have a way of getting your point across in a very easy to understand way.Keep up the good work and hopefully some rich person will finance you, we all wish for a rich benifactor ..
Very good Robin. Thanks
glutton for punishment.... t'is but a scratch Sir. keep them coming
Thank you for yet another informative video!
Great video! I really like watching the work and then hearing people’s question get answered. I helps me better understand the topic better. Keep the videos coming! Thanks for your time and effort in doing them.
Lapping can be soooo very enjoyable , (though quite frustrating at times ). I've designed a rather large number of faceted gemstone cuts. . . with a worn out machine , so I'm painfully aware of the micro nuances of pressure & angles to hold as rigidly as possible.. *I believe the term , 'cheat you blind' is in reference to making micro adjustments to angles , while doing final cuts with finer grits; ESPECIALLY in the process of polishing !!! Where angles meet to form point intersections can be very challenging, especially when dozens of facets meet at that point. I've found that using a halogen bulb of 50 watts to be just right for illuminating facets during polishing, & that 20 power magnification gives unreal results. I've learned through trials , that working to a single wavelength of light is possible 'by eye' . . . through visually making the reflected color of a facet the same as it's 'fellow' facets at the same angle !
I've often used hard stones as my charging tool. Mineral oil works very well to disperse / and distribute diamond grit over the surface of the lap. I use copper laps that can be very tricky to work with . Sometimes , 'less is more', when charging laps ! * Overly charged laps tend to cause 'floating' of the lap, instead of cutting .
Great work, Robin - 'Looking forward to your continued progress !
Thanks, all good points you bring up. I have never done faceting of gemstones but I completely understand the issues with facets intersecting properly. I am glad its you doing them :-) Thanks for watching and commenting.
Thanks for the explanation Robin.
I'm seriously learning a lot from these, thanks for sharing!
Glad to hear it!
Amazing I learned so much and corected a few mistakes I thought I knew thanks rob
Always great to watch a fanatical point of view, adjusted for a bit of reality. The sign of a true expert. Thanks.
A true expert in "leveling" a surface plate who repeatedly asserts that anything that touches a surface plate "distorts" and "bends" it therefore making a surface plate pretty much impossible to "level" since you can't "level" it with "nothing". How does the "level" plate stay "level" or "flat" with parts and tools on it for "measurement"?
Robin, after watching this, I have another question. Do I need to switch from canned peaches to a can of pitted olives? My lapping keeping coming out a bit out of spec, and I am looking for answers.
My understanding is the Figure 8 pattern is used to constantly change the leading edge of the lap, or part if lap is stationary, in relation to the direction of motion. Moving the lap or part straight back and forth tends wear the ends. This tendency is averaged by the figure 8 motion. The lap and piece being lapped still need to be turned and spun around with regards to the lapper in regular intervals to compensate for unavoidable variations and bias in technique Although not entirely the same, this also applies to stoning a part. Stones moved straight back and forth wear into convex or low on the ends, and things sharpened or flatted on the stone tend to have rounded edges and corners.
Lapping machines have the lap and parts along with the wear rings moving in counter rotation to one another, which negates this.
You are brilliant Rob. A real gem on TH-cam. I really like your videos. They do have very good content. thanks a lot!
Really liked your figure-8 explanation. 👍
If you're ever lean on discussion topics: cutting oil, when is it useful and when it's not?
Great video. I understand the concept of everything moves but I don't know the techniques to minimize the distortion. Your talk helps fill in the practical side. Thank You!
Just enjoy your presentations.
Thank you for the video! I'm proud to be the only 21 year old I know who is fascinated by setup plates! Im obsessed with flatness, which means there's no way I can afford the milling machine that has the accuracy I would like to have!
I learned something tonight, thank you.
One minor point, but like repeatability vs flatness, one that I have seen causes confusion, is regarding "certification".
Unless things are drastically different in the US compared to elsewhere in the world I'd respectfully suggest Robin Renzetti does not hold the authority to "certify" that plate ... or any other plate for that matter ;) Nor would the Renzetti-meter be approved for that purpose. Both could arguably be achieved by jumping through the appropriate bureaucratic hoops, but I doubt that will be done. That doesn't of course mean that it can't be proven to one's own satisfaction to meet the required specification using any method one likes, it's just that it will not technically be "certified" to that standard and that would need to come from an approved authority.
It may seem like a moot point, but it's not at all for organisations who need to produce products to meet a specific standard and require their metrology equipment to be within current certification.
Agreed Pete, I will correct that in the next video.
ATB, Robin
Pete F - Fair point. Personally, if given the choice between a marketplace certified plate and a one-off Renzetti-certified plate, I would choose the latter without hesitation.
Well, a certificate of traceable calibration certifies that the calibration chain is unbroken back to a national standards bureau, which in turn used approved methods to create standards conformant to the SI. That chain of traceability is important for many users, especially those who need to prove legally that their equipment meets the standards.
SAI Peregrinus - Agreed, but how many individuals are involved in this process of certification, and how many plates does each one certify every week? People make mistakes. I'd wager a one-off Renzetti-certified plate is more likely to be on-spec than (almost) any marketplace certified plate.
... I probably should wipe the brown off my nose, lol.
Likely just the same number of people involved in the certification as are involved in Robin's checking ie one! Because of the process involved in certification, the likelihood of a mistake being made in certifying a surface plate is very low indeed. As mentioned, the entire metrology chain involved in that calibration has been checked and is in itself certified. In practice a decent lab will likely be using differential levels that auto-input to the software. The Union Jack pattern used is not coincidental and where each line crossed the errors obtained by each independent line will be compared and anomalies detected by the software automatically.
None of this is to take anything away from Robin, nor alternative techniques he's developed. He is an extremely careful worker and has inspired me to work better. It's just that the word "certification" has a specific meaning, and it's not a synonym for accuracy or measuring, though it involves checking both.
fantastic explanations - thank you!
@ROBRENZ You got a whole lot of flak for the last video, and this one, but I'd really like to see a continuation of this. I think everyone has figured out this was as much a learning experience for you as for us.
Perfect, answered all my questions about part 1 and some I hadn't thought of. Keep'em coming, and if I hit the lottery You will be the second on my list. Thanks