Don't forget to go to harbor freight for tarps. They sell both sun mesh that blocks out 70% of the sun's light and some privacy, and a canvis tarp that is breathable and mildew resistant. Either one should help prolong your storage totes life and conceal them better.
The bugs are much more efficient if you will grind and drain produce. That will let you ditch the drain tube also. Balance the moister out with dry food like grounds and bread. A single pod 2x2 1/2 feet has been producing 1/2 gallon of larva daily all summer being fed about 10 lbs a day. Larva reach peak nutritional value at 15 days. Most of what is fed to 15 birds are large white larva while most of the black pre-pupa are released to mature and return with eggs. Not including the family of 5 sweet little Wrens that eat bugs out of the bin all day. Have to come up with accommodations for the song birds when the operation is moved indoors and ramped up in January.
For those in mosquito prone areas, the stagnate water at the base of the legs would be a problem. However, if you made it deep enough, perhaps you could also have some mosquito fish living in there to keep the mosquito larvae at bay.
it sounds to me the grubs wont grow for the winter seasons. So do we dry store the excess grubs during the season and fee the chickens during the cold seasons?
Could probably vacuume seal bags of em and freeze them. Dehydration and rehydration could probably work too, or dehydrat and grind into a meal that could be made into paste or pellets
They form into a chrysalis a week or so after becoming the black grubs. You can take that, and stick it in the fridge, it's good for a long while like that, and the chickens will eat them even in the chrysalis. They don't hang like caterpillars, they just get kinda stiff and don't move.
No , Black soldiers fly not a predator Other fly didn't exist because the food sources occupied already by the black ,so the other will looking other food sources
Thank you for the creative video. Inspired by your video of the first bio pod I have made one for a neighbor. To mount the cardboard I have just used sharpened studding. This makes it easy to remove old cardboard and install new one. Just spike it up.
Well, this looks like a very well thought idea, congratulations. I don't know if in europe we have these flies (hope not but probably yes?) but I remember from when I was a kid that you could do something like this with some scarabs that ate paper and flour. People with terrariums and so had big jars with self sustaining (well, if you provided flour and paper) worm populations.
Why does he need too? The ingredients are in the video? A tub? A pvc fitting? Coffee grounds? Cardboard? And organic material? How do you not have a brain big enough to put all of this together?? With the 30 likes your comment has I can't believe this has to be said but here I am. People are so dense.
@@unpopularopinions-e2ces gibt 2 arten von menschen. die einen machen sich drüber lustig, wenn jemand etwas nicht kann oder weiß, die anderen haben genug gehirn um zu verstehen, dass niemand alles wissen bzw alle skills besitzen kann und helfen dementsprechend auch gerne. mit handwerklichem zeug habe ich bisher einfach net viel zu tun gehabt, dafür bin ich dir aber in ganz anderen bereichen überlegen ;) ich weiß wenn ich so ein video sehe nicht, was für schwierigkeiten und komplikationen auf mich zukommen, deswegen hätte ich mir einfach n tutorial dazu gewünscht. gute tutorials haben mir schon viel weitergeholfen :) p.s. so ein kasten steht bei mir bereits seit letztem jahr im garnet und das habe ich auch ganz ohne tutorial geschafft 😂😂💪🏽 nur weil ich mir ein tutorial wünsche heißt es also nicht, dass ich etwas nicht hinbekomme. also nochmal ein fazit an dich: denk bevor du sprichst oder schreibst und sei nicht immer so angreifend. ich verstehe, dass du n schlechten tag hattest, aber im internet sitzen auch nur menschen. die brauchst du nicht so dumm anzumachen :)
Do you have concerns about things tipping over during a storm? What would be the impact of it accidentally opening up and spilling the larvae everywhere?
2:30 It's mostly a good idea. We have fireants here that do the ant raft thing to get over water 🥺. However, I've noticed fireants go more crazy for junk food. Basic food like coffee and greens like shown above is better than breads and other stuff.
Literally every single thing you need to know is in this video? I don't even own chickens or a farm and I completely understand how to replicate this and how this process works effectively by just watching and listening to him. His title is not misleading? This is exactly how you make these bio pods? What are you so confused about? You can answer your own questions by rewatching the video and paying close attention? Why does he need to re do this entire video in extreme detail? so you can have someone hold your hand? I don't get it.
@@unpopularopinions-e2c You just said you don't own chickens or a farm and yet you think you could completely replicate it with no problems...you don't even know what OP's moisture problem is or why he has it. You are a shining example of the Dunning-Kruger effect and you've never even actually tried doing it. Unbelievable. "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra
This is really good. Just a thought, wouldn't it be easier to just place this next to the chicken coop sticking through the side and then just have the grubs fall out of the end right into the chocken pen? Which would act as a kind of natural, automated system?
Definitely needs to be protected from extreme cold and heat. I would say ideally anywhere between 64f - 87f. That’s just an example point. I’m sure in extreme conditions that it doesn’t produce nearly the ideal amount.
Hi i'm from Poland and I'm planing to move to country side and I want to have chickens some day and Im wondering if this could work in Poland with other fly spices
From Wikipedia: The black soldier fly "is native to the Neotropical realm, but in recent decades has spread across all continents, becoming virtually cosmopolitan. It is present in most of North America and Europe". So black soldier flies might already live in Poland. I would give it a try and see what happens.
Love this idea, but nobody calling out they switched the design mid video and then it switched back? Which version works better, bucket inside or out? Or is it preference?
Have someone look into 3d printing a better bed/nest for the soldier fly’s to lay there eggs. Could probably maximize more eggs than the cardboard maybe? Gonna give it a shot when I build mine. Great vid!
I’m still confused what to do with the castings. Do you add them straight to the garden or do they need to go to another compost pile first. Does the moisture stop at a certain point? Can you use the moisture as fertilizer too?
From my understanding, the flies process scraps faster than worms, are a more protein rich food for chickens, and can be fed foods that worms can't eat (like citrus, meat scraps, and dairy).
Great idea! I would like to implement this, but I'm pretty sure there are no Black Flies in Canary Islands (islands located in the Atlantic, near south Morocco). Is there an alternative fly type that can be used? This is a pretty dry and volcanic landscape btw
Black soldier flies are "native to the Neotropical realm, but in recent decades has spread across all continents, becoming virtually cosmopolitan. It is present in most of North America and Europe, including the Iberian Peninsula, southern France, Italy, Croatia, Malta, the Canary Islands". - Wikipedia
Oh please could you help me figure out a way to feed our feral cats here in the Big island? Without bugs or anything getting to the food ? We have so many here it’s insane to try to feed them without the mongooses getting their food . I’m stumped. But you kids have a brain that could probably come up with something simple. I love your show building a cabin with minimal moneys and we’re campers from way back . Lived in a big blue bus for five years and lived it. Thanks I look forward to hearing from you. Aloha
Those are two versions! The one with the bucket in front for harvesting is an older model. The one with the bucket inside under the ramp is better. Our DIY plans will go over the newer model.
Hi! Is this system sustainable? How did you grow adult fly if the larvae fall into the bucket? Do you have a system also where you put the black larvae that grows into adult fly then back into that system?
I wonder if you could store some over the winter in a fridge, if they would stay dormant and alive for long enough to make this feasible as a food source year-round.
Have observed that BSF also helps control flies. And also seen some BSF larva eat fly larva. I don't know if they really do or if it was only an instance.
Sorry if the question sounds a bit dumb, but, would any kind of fly be attracted by these bio pods? I’m asking cause I’d like to see if this is viable in South America
Great idea! I can't wait to see the plans to build one. We have chickens are I'm always looking for ways to save money. Thanks so much for sharing info like this.
Fantastic idea but as others have written do these work with other flies, such as Bluebottles in the UK or is it only the black fly colony building that makes this work? Might be useful to have on your site what flies/ worms etc will work else where if possible.
@@Q-BOTyou're exactly right, every single piece of information you need to do this yourself is all in the video if you extract the information yourself without someone holding your hand, he's explaining how the process works scientifically, if you can't understand that the ingredients here is a tub, pvc pipe, coffee grounds and organic material, and a decent sized brain to put it all together, then you don't deserve to have this knowledge. Period, end of story.
Facts you kinda just gotta take what he said and build your own contraption he shows it all thou. I just sent it to my mom so if she can do it then you sir are the problem.
My only concern is the water trap around the legs. With our current invasion of mosquitoes, that would really not be good in SoCal. Is that really necessary? What happened before you added that? I guess ants ate the larva? Anyone have ideas other than a water trap for keeping them out? Perhaps tanglefoot would work instead.
The BSF doesn't have any teeth or stingers. They don't carry disease or hurt the garden. Sole purpose is to lay more eggs which the larvae do all the work.
Why would you feed table scraps (that the chickens can already eat) to bugs, just to feed those same chickens the worms you created with the scraps they could have eaten? Genuinely wondering if this is necessary in like a survival situation
Mans created a minecraft mob grinder 💀
.... 😂😂😂😂😂
Don't forget to go to harbor freight for tarps. They sell both sun mesh that blocks out 70% of the sun's light and some privacy, and a canvis tarp that is breathable and mildew resistant. Either one should help prolong your storage totes life and conceal them better.
The bugs are much more efficient if you will grind and drain produce. That will let you ditch the drain tube also. Balance the moister out with dry food like grounds and bread. A single pod 2x2 1/2 feet has been producing 1/2 gallon of larva daily all summer being fed about 10 lbs a day. Larva reach peak nutritional value at 15 days. Most of what is fed to 15 birds are large white larva while most of the black pre-pupa are released to mature and return with eggs.
Not including the family of 5 sweet little Wrens that eat bugs out of the bin all day.
Have to come up with accommodations for the song birds when the operation is moved indoors and ramped up in January.
For those in mosquito prone areas, the stagnate water at the base of the legs would be a problem. However, if you made it deep enough, perhaps you could also have some mosquito fish living in there to keep the mosquito larvae at bay.
Put BTi in the water.
I homestead in Texas and mosquitos came to my mind immediately when I saw the stagnant water. Great idea otherwise.
Maybe soap dish soap too, to break the surface tension...
it sounds to me the grubs wont grow for the winter seasons. So do we dry store the excess grubs during the season and fee the chickens during the cold seasons?
Could probably vacuume seal bags of em and freeze them. Dehydration and rehydration could probably work too, or dehydrat and grind into a meal that could be made into paste or pellets
you can process them into some kind of grubs flour.
They form into a chrysalis a week or so after becoming the black grubs. You can take that, and stick it in the fridge, it's good for a long while like that, and the chickens will eat them even in the chrysalis. They don't hang like caterpillars, they just get kinda stiff and don't move.
Protein is protein, dont judge me
😂
02:18 That is great liquid fertiliser (leachate), capture it. Pipe should go into a sealed bottle. Use to feed plants in 20:1 leachate/water mix.
Super great! Thanks for the look into your biopod for black soldier fly larvae nourishment, growth, and harvest.
They eat other fly larvae that’s why there’s no other pest flies.
Do they eat mosquito larvae
@@TherealAsanDmosquitoes lay thier eggs in standing water. So... no.
No , Black soldiers fly not a predator
Other fly didn't exist because the food sources occupied already by the black ,so the other will looking other food sources
can you freeze the grubs until winter when there won't be production due to weather?
Freaking captain america flies
you do whatever you want. its your life. if you want to, you can.
Thank you for the creative video. Inspired by your video of the first bio pod I have made one for a neighbor. To mount the cardboard I have just used sharpened studding. This makes it easy to remove old cardboard and install new one. Just spike it up.
You are amazing. Can't wait to see the full DIY video of this 😍😍😍🔥
Well, this looks like a very well thought idea, congratulations.
I don't know if in europe we have these flies (hope not but probably yes?) but I remember from when I was a kid that you could do something like this with some scarabs that ate paper and flour. People with terrariums and so had big jars with self sustaining (well, if you provided flour and paper) worm populations.
What flies can replace the black soldiers flies in southamerica?
I would love to know as well
Mosca soldado!
@@HectorNoya thanks. Mas precisa colocar a larva no ecossistema ou ela ja está por aqui?
@@allankokkonen5722 ela vem até se você não quiser! Kkkkkk
I read recently that Black Soldier Flies originate from South America. There should be some there, too.
can you pls do a building tutorial of this boxes?
Frfr
Why does he need too? The ingredients are in the video? A tub? A pvc fitting? Coffee grounds? Cardboard? And organic material? How do you not have a brain big enough to put all of this together?? With the 30 likes your comment has I can't believe this has to be said but here I am. People are so dense.
@@unpopularopinions-e2ces gibt 2 arten von menschen. die einen machen sich drüber lustig, wenn jemand etwas nicht kann oder weiß, die anderen haben genug gehirn um zu verstehen, dass niemand alles wissen bzw alle skills besitzen kann und helfen dementsprechend auch gerne. mit handwerklichem zeug habe ich bisher einfach net viel zu tun gehabt, dafür bin ich dir aber in ganz anderen bereichen überlegen ;)
ich weiß wenn ich so ein video sehe nicht, was für schwierigkeiten und komplikationen auf mich zukommen, deswegen hätte ich mir einfach n tutorial dazu gewünscht. gute tutorials haben mir schon viel weitergeholfen :)
p.s. so ein kasten steht bei mir bereits seit letztem jahr im garnet und das habe ich auch ganz ohne tutorial geschafft 😂😂💪🏽
nur weil ich mir ein tutorial wünsche heißt es also nicht, dass ich etwas nicht hinbekomme.
also nochmal ein fazit an dich:
denk bevor du sprichst oder schreibst und sei nicht immer so angreifend. ich verstehe, dass du n schlechten tag hattest, aber im internet sitzen auch nur menschen. die brauchst du nicht so dumm anzumachen :)
@@Geh_Dama_Weg👍🏽
@@Geh_Dama_WegGood, I support your response 100%, 👍.
Do you get black soldier flies in Australia?
Apparently. The Gardening Australia channel has a video on farming black soldier flies.
Great video! I live in the tropics and have quail and chickens…. So need to start this!
Did you know some crazy people were considering feeting this chicken worm food to people?
Do you have concerns about things tipping over during a storm? What would be the impact of it accidentally opening up and spilling the larvae everywhere?
You can always let chickens out so they can pick all of the larvae
Simply let the chicken have a fun filled day of eating 😆🥰🥰🥰
Great video..waiting for the next.
When purchased do better instructions come with pods ?
We are releasing our own DIY plans in 2 weeks!
@@acornlandlabsthis all sounds good but why not feed the food scraps straight to the chickens?
@@GLG_YTas mentioned in the video, to provide protein to the chickens. Most of their food scraps are probably not protein
@@acornlandlabs nice !
@@looneyknight21 Correct!
2:30
It's mostly a good idea. We have fireants here that do the ant raft thing to get over water 🥺.
However, I've noticed fireants go more crazy for junk food. Basic food like coffee and greens like shown above is better than breads and other stuff.
Where are plans? Would love to compare to the one I built. Moisture management is the biggest issue I have.
Do you have the tube leading out the back? Is your system at an angle?
Literally every single thing you need to know is in this video? I don't even own chickens or a farm and I completely understand how to replicate this and how this process works effectively by just watching and listening to him. His title is not misleading? This is exactly how you make these bio pods? What are you so confused about? You can answer your own questions by rewatching the video and paying close attention? Why does he need to re do this entire video in extreme detail? so you can have someone hold your hand? I don't get it.
@@unpopularopinions-e2c You just said you don't own chickens or a farm and yet you think you could completely replicate it with no problems...you don't even know what OP's moisture problem is or why he has it. You are a shining example of the Dunning-Kruger effect and you've never even actually tried doing it. Unbelievable.
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra
Really great sustainable idea! Congrats !!!
The most important question you didnt discuss: ehats the design and how do u do it?
You can't determine what you need from the video?
Thanks for Sharing really good idea!
As the food waste accumulates do you empty out portions throughout the season from the container?
It's compose.
@@CALCOBRA94 thank you
When building this, will black solider flies just appear? Or do they need to be introduced first, and can they be invasive
Whether they are invasive or not depends on the country/ state you live in
If they're around, they come for the stink.
I’m so glad I came across your channel
This is really good. Just a thought, wouldn't it be easier to just place this next to the chicken coop sticking through the side and then just have the grubs fall out of the end right into the chocken pen? Which would act as a kind of natural, automated system?
This was my thought as well... ima gunna try it, what could possibly go wrong... haha
Such a wholesome channel. Definitely subscribing. Great content!
Do these produce larva year round where you are located? Do they need to stay warm during the winter?
Definitely needs to be protected from extreme cold and heat. I would say ideally anywhere between 64f - 87f. That’s just an example point. I’m sure in extreme conditions that it doesn’t produce nearly the ideal amount.
When will the plans be available on your site?
I love this channel ❤
Hi i'm from Poland and I'm planing to move to country side and I want to have chickens some day and Im wondering if this could work in Poland with other fly spices
From Wikipedia: The black soldier fly "is native to the Neotropical realm, but in recent decades has spread across all continents, becoming virtually cosmopolitan. It is present in most of North America and Europe".
So black soldier flies might already live in Poland. I would give it a try and see what happens.
Hello, I’m wondering if the plans or building tutorial were ever posted anywhere? Great video and concept.
Hey, whatever happened to the that long video of the DIY BioPod???
Great content 🙏 thanks for sharing with us ❤ from Australia ❤
Love this idea, but nobody calling out they switched the design mid video and then it switched back? Which version works better, bucket inside or out? Or is it preference?
This is amazing! You should make a video of the step by step breakdown of how you made this.
Does it work all year or it is just at a certain time when they reproduce
How to prevent cockroaches? They could easily get in wouldn't they?
I really like this idea, I live off-grind and have about 35 chickens, and I'm always looking for ideas to bring my feed cost down.
Nice work guys :)
How much does feed for that many chickens cost you normally?
They will go crazy for the grubs
@@anthonymazzeo6123 Alot. Free range chickens will get them to be profitable. Cage chickens are a negative investment
Off grid you mean. Join the club. Unfortunately my cat would kill the chickens.
Have someone look into 3d printing a better bed/nest for the soldier fly’s to lay there eggs. Could probably maximize more eggs than the cardboard maybe? Gonna give it a shot when I build mine. Great vid!
I’m still confused what to do with the castings. Do you add them straight to the garden or do they need to go to another compost pile first. Does the moisture stop at a certain point? Can you use the moisture as fertilizer too?
Can the soldierfly larva also be food for other critters, like reptile snacks or fish bait
Sure, if they like to eat them
Yes I feed them to my cichlids
awesome thanks. will be trying!
So why is this system with the flys better than the one with worms?
From my understanding, the flies process scraps faster than worms, are a more protein rich food for chickens, and can be fed foods that worms can't eat (like citrus, meat scraps, and dairy).
Nice video I will certainly be making one of these in the future 💖
Great idea! I would like to implement this, but I'm pretty sure there are no Black Flies in Canary Islands (islands located in the Atlantic, near south Morocco).
Is there an alternative fly type that can be used? This is a pretty dry and volcanic landscape btw
just ship the worms. BSF is the most ideal.
But next on queue is mealworms.
No te preocupes. Hay insectos descomponedores en todos los ecosistemas. En España tenemos varias especies de descomponedores.
Black soldier flies are "native to the Neotropical realm, but in recent decades has spread across all continents, becoming virtually cosmopolitan. It is present in most of North America and Europe, including the Iberian Peninsula, southern France, Italy, Croatia, Malta, the Canary Islands". - Wikipedia
Can u use the compost left behind?
Can't wait to get the plan.
does that work with house flies as chicken feed?
Oh please could you help me figure out a way to feed our feral cats here in the Big island? Without bugs or anything getting to the food ? We have so many here it’s insane to try to feed them without the mongooses getting their food . I’m stumped. But you kids have a brain that could probably come up with something simple. I love your show building a cabin with minimal moneys and we’re campers from way back . Lived in a big blue bus for five years and lived it. Thanks I look forward to hearing from you. Aloha
Can you use the liquid from the moisture for something , like fermented with grain
One scene shows the vent holes with no pvc pipes then in the end of the video it shows them On. Do I need them or not.
Maybe you should watch again.
The video shows two versions but BOTH have ventilation.
Those are two versions! The one with the bucket in front for harvesting is an older model. The one with the bucket inside under the ramp is better. Our DIY plans will go over the newer model.
Neat design but what do you do for mosquitoes in the bug mote water? Veg. oil?
Hi! Is this system sustainable? How did you grow adult fly if the larvae fall into the bucket? Do you have a system also where you put the black larvae that grows into adult fly then back into that system?
Instead of coffee can we use used tea
Yes. All types of organic matter
Was the longer guide on how to build the biopod ever released?
I wonder if you could store some over the winter in a fridge, if they would stay dormant and alive for long enough to make this feasible as a food source year-round.
Are there BSF in the Mojave Desert?
Lazy low effort way I do this is just put food waste in a box, drill holes in it and open the lid when larve develop and let the chickens have at it
Is there is DIY video or build plans for the Biopod?
Have observed that BSF also helps control flies. And also seen some BSF larva eat fly larva. I don't know if they really do or if it was only an instance.
Are you selling this box yet ?
So what other animals would eat this larva species? Would ducks benefit from this?
Thank you for your sharing ❤
Will this work in Tucson Arizona?
Yes! It’s important to not let the heat get too hot for your pods or the substrate in the pod from getting too dry
Great video! Are the plans available for purchase yet?
Do you have ants getting into the pods?
How much protein do you get from the black Soldier fly larvae?
the gruberinos : "Finally we're Freeeeee---ack!"
Which better, Bsf or earthworm?
Both are great in their own way! Best of your project
I love this idea, but I didn't see a build video that you said would be out. Is there one, and I just missed it?
This is genius. Well done
Sorry if the question sounds a bit dumb, but, would any kind of fly be attracted by these bio pods? I’m asking cause I’d like to see if this is viable in South America
This is a great video, great work guys :)
Great idea! I can't wait to see the plans to build one. We have chickens are I'm always looking for ways to save money.
Thanks so much for sharing info like this.
you should also consider a worm tower with the three bucket system. another way to get chicken feed.
Fantastic. I really want to make this. Is it in the little book you made?
What about wasps like yellow jackets? Do they find there way in?
I really amazed how smart you are
Wow intro so smooth I love it
Roughly how much does each bipod make in larvae in a season?
Bro made a mob farm irl
NO bites or stings from the
Black soldier flies. 👍🖖
Not sure how winters are in the area you are located. Thats my concern. Winter food sources
02:27 Everything here is good except the "water barrier". This absolutely won't stop ants or other insects but WILL attract mosquitoes!
How did you make that ramp for them to self harvest
4:44 Long-form spring video where?
Is the course teach how to make the box ? And teach everything ?
If your chickens eat all the larvae, how do you maintain a fly population?
is the bin food grade and if it is where did you get it
Fantastic idea but as others have written do these work with other flies, such as Bluebottles in the UK or is it only the black fly colony building that makes this work?
Might be useful to have on your site what flies/ worms etc will work else where if possible.
You can do your own research too.....not just waiting some dobthe job for you..
Or - -You could make a video about that.
Can you please make a video of all supplies needed to build a biopod similar to yours?!
Where are the plans? The title of this video is “HOW TO MAKE…”
He explains it pretty well. While its not a step by step guide, all the information is here.
@@Q-BOTyou're exactly right, every single piece of information you need to do this yourself is all in the video if you extract the information yourself without someone holding your hand, he's explaining how the process works scientifically, if you can't understand that the ingredients here is a tub, pvc pipe, coffee grounds and organic material, and a decent sized brain to put it all together, then you don't deserve to have this knowledge. Period, end of story.
Bro it's a bucket with rubbish in it on a brick.
It’s all in the video man 😭
Facts you kinda just gotta take what he said and build your own contraption he shows it all thou. I just sent it to my mom so if she can do it then you sir are the problem.
My only concern is the water trap around the legs. With our current invasion of mosquitoes, that would really not be good in SoCal. Is that really necessary? What happened before you added that? I guess ants ate the larva? Anyone have ideas other than a water trap for keeping them out? Perhaps tanglefoot would work instead.
Get some Bifen IT and add a tablespoon to each. Prevents larval mosquitos from maturing into adults.
Look into BTI granules. It’s a type of bacteria that kills mosquito larva
Do they bite? Do they get out & eat your regular garden, or, bother the ecosystem if they get out?
The BSF doesn't have any teeth or stingers. They don't carry disease or hurt the garden. Sole purpose is to lay more eggs which the larvae do all the work.
I accidentally caught black soldier fly in my outdoor worm bin and missed them completely in the 2 bins I set up to attract them. Oh well!
Can I use maggots in that grow in sheep manure to feed my chickens?
Why would you feed table scraps (that the chickens can already eat) to bugs, just to feed those same chickens the worms you created with the scraps they could have eaten? Genuinely wondering if this is necessary in like a survival situation