American Pie & The Cult Of Misogyny
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2024
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this is for people who really wanna give me some money.
In this video I decide to go over all 9 of the american pie movies (which I adored as a teenager), and try to see what kind of lessons does the franchise try to teach, some of these movies are 100% better than others, so don't assume that I feel a certain way about all of them based on this title alone or I'll be very sad.
this thing took me a month to make, not only because it's a big project, but also because I got sick right at the start of making it and also went through some sad real life stuff. I feel like I'm slowly getting back on my feet right now though and I have some pretty cool ideas in mind, so hopefully you guys are ready for that :)
if you read this description let me know in the comments so I know you're a real pinely fan
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Hope you liked this video, took me a while!! Thanks to MANSCAPED for sponsoring today’s video! Get 20% OFF + Free International Shipping + 2 Free Gifts with promo code “PINELY” at mnscpd.com/Pinely
Thanks for an 1-hour video.
The first few seconds were too funny. I died. Thank you.
One hour video?! Box daddy truly has smiled upon us this day.
Wow
THAT’S NOT PINE TREE! THAT’S MR. YOUTUB- oh shit, sorry- sorry. I didn’t realize he wasn’t wearing glasses… Sorry,
I believe there is a inter-generational cause-effect between 2000s movie's virginity obsession -> friend zone / nice guy phenomena -> incels / andrew tate hyper-misogyny
Facts
The nice guy/friend zone phenomenon was pretty terrible. You're definitely right about them feeding into each other. I remember how back in the day when I was attempting dating, my friends unknowingly made me feel like an idiot for acting nice towards women. I say unknowingly cause it was the culture at the time, and it kinda always is, just in different shapes and forms.
@@yourewelcome5493bc you got girls & they didn’t lmao
@@Tw0Dots he def did not get any bruh, neither of u pussys dont get any. and if u do, its a bunch of 3s and 2s who are body positive and have great relationships with their fathers.
I never thought of that but it makes sense
Ok why did my dad recommend me to watch these years ago, stating that they would make me "learn about social interactions"? All someone could learn from these is how to get on the sex offender list
I think he wanted you to watch these movies on how not to act
@@BlueBlazeKing that would have made more sense
Probably because he's suffering from brain rot or is apart of the stiffler cult
Tough look for you dad lol
Your username should be on the sex offender list lmao
One thing you missed in the first American Pie - Oz actually lies to all his friends after prom and tells them that he didn't do it. It was a single line so maybe you missed it.
I feel like that makes it different than him "getting what he wanted before he learned his lesson." Because the whole point of what he originally wanted was bragging rights and claiming some toxic masculine victory. Instead, he told his friends he was still a virgin and kept sex as something special and private between him and his girl. Very different.
this video is stupid. i can't believe how many zoomers are up in arms about cancel culture lol give it a rest. the ending of the movie is the point of it. the guys don't care about the sex anymore and literally the ending monologue is something along the lines of being best friends and not letting sex get in the way of it etc. I mean guys come on the movie is based off horny teenagers it's not that deep you absolute snowflakes.
toxic masculine is so all used and damaging
Yeah I specifically remember Jim saying some shit like “hang in there it’ll happen”
Well the creator of the vid completely missed the point of you know... Comedy . So it's not a shock that he overlooked this. That and the weird circle jerk comment section of people with no sense of humor is kind of baffling. Unless everyone who commented is 15. Then I'll completely understand.
@@JayBigDadyCyyou're right if you watch these movies and think "cult of misogyny" you're probably a brainwashed idiot. People are sensitive, not much else to say.
the amount of times my gf and I have been asked to kiss each other, so men can see makes me sick to my stomach. That scene was hard to watch.
I don't believe you. Nobody goes up to any couple, lesbian or straight and asks that you absolute lying liar.
@@killuminatoV01 just because it hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it never happens. There are some people who will turn your relationship into just a fetish for them. I'm sorry.
@@killuminatoV01 some MFs weren't raised right
@@killuminatoV01 I live in the bible belt... it happens often. But what can I say im just a lying liar :'(
@@hmmmidk6690 thats exactly what it is, and its because of people growing up on shit like this.
"One time at band camp..." was the "That's what she said!" of my high school years. I'm 35.
I completely forgot to mention that and its one of my favourite bits in the movie
Ugh, ugh. I could go the rest of my life without ever hearing that phrase again 😅
100% 😂
I’m 30. And it’s still the, that’s what she said.
Same!
During the Choir scene in AP1: Her saying he had a "Frank Sinatra thing going on" she wasn't doing it to say he was good at singing it was a reference to the "scooby-dooby-doo-bop" he was tacking onto the end of the song, Sinatra has a famous scat line from the song Strangers in the Night "doo-be-doo-be-doo" which was misheard by Fred Silverman head of CBS as "scooby-dooby-doo" that he used to name the Talking Dog in this new little cartoon they were working on. Actually a pretty multilayered reference for a 2000s comedy lol.
Whoa that’s an awesome little tidbit! Very interesting! Thanks for sharing
What a stupid name, I doubt that talking dog cartoon got very far in the world of media.
I was a redhead who was in band camp when that movie came out and American Pie made my life considerably more annoying for many years
Ouch.
My friend was a redhead who played flute in marching band! She got A LOT of gross comments
As someone who's never had sex in their life. The whole concept of virginity is mostly taught to convince teens of abstention. It's been proven time and time again that it doesn't work for teens, because if you tell a teenager not to do something, they'll want to do it anyways. I feel like the real problem in these movies is that there is no care for sex education, for a movie that's completely about sex.
There's no care for sex education in the US. And, only in 15 states is sex education needs to be scientifically accurate. This only pushes that "virgins should be girls, but if you're a boy, you should already be laid" agenda. It's really disheartening to me, because of the misogyny I've experienced in real life, because of my appearance. It's really messed with my body image. These movies were everywhere when I was a kid.
I've never seen American pie myself and with this video I don't think I'll ever need to.
It’s these dumb Christian conservatives that does not believe sex education that should be taught.
The Girl Next Door did more for sex education than the 9 American Pie movies, and that's a movie about a dude trying to date a (retired?) prawn actress.
@@bararobberbaron859 isn't girl next door a movie about the worst crime to happen in America?...
@@paracuna there’s a 2004 romcom and 2007 horror thriller. the later is the one based on Sylvia Likens case
That dialogue about the girl having an easier time with being a virgin honestly p¡ssed me off as someone who grew up with purity culture.
The writers didn't even consider what kind of trauma it causes young girls.
"It's easier for you because you stay pure and innocent longer."
"Oh, yeah? It's so easy that I constantly live in fear of my family disowning me if I even look at a boy and now I'm dealing with a boyfriend who's trying to guilt-trip me into doing something that I'm not comfortable with. But sure, I'll give up my 'innocence' so your bros can give you a high five later. 🙄"
People in the comments keep bringing up being asexual as part of the reasoning they always found these movies gross or uncomfortable, but I need people to really internalize that you don't need to be on the ace spectrum to not find shit like this okay or appealing. I can guarantee you that a good chunk of us non-asexuals are grossed out by stuff like this too. In fact I'd even venture to say that media like this was actively harmful for many of us growing up because we DID have sexual urges and feelings, but movies like this made these very natural feelings seem like such a predatory and gross thing that we ended up with a lot of people growing up who felt alienated or even scared by it.
People can say what they want about movies like this just being simply gross out comedies that don't matter that much, but they absolutely DID reflect overall cultural attitudes at the time (I remember them well lol) which were very toxic to developing a healthy sexuality. It only reinforced the idea that women's bodies and sex were only useful for the entertainment of men, and that all straight men were predatory shallow freaks who could only barely contain their sex obsession. It was just garbage all around and I'm honestly glad to not live in that era of media anymore lmao. Good riddance.
This is one of the best comments ever ty
As like a wlw, I'd like to add that i really struggled with internalised homophobia over feeling sexually attracted to women because of how.... Shitty Hollywood potrayed men who were attracted to women. I felt like i was doing to other women what I'd hate men doing to me. But like I'd just be 'oh she's pretty' or 'oh she's hot' and then feel really guilty about it. American pie definitely didn't help. And I'm like a certified slut TM who has a fairly high sex drive.
Right, these films come off as creepy and ... well boring. These "wankers" are so obsessed with sex that nothing else matters. It's like everyone around them is normal and then you have these characters. It's hard to find anything funny about this thing, add the grossness on top of it and see what's left.
I was a het girl or teen when I watched the first or second movie and they made me go "????.... Is this supposed to be entertaining. Everyone is so dumb!" If you aren't into the (cringe) "humour" then this thing fails as an entertainment piece, too.
@@nithi9638 i mean that's not really internalized homophobia, because men deal with the same issues...
I am not asexual but aromantic and I despise this franchise more than anything for how it portrays sex. I have a burning hatred for garbage these are
When the American Pie movies came out I was too young for them and never ended up watching them. I've always wanted to know their cultural impact without actually having to go through them. Thank you Pinely, you solved a very particular dilemma in my life that has been long-standing. I thank you and thank you also for doing nothing weird with the pie you were eating. Even for a joke I don't condone pie crimes.
I was too old for it, but I saw Revenge of the Nerds, so I felt confident that I understood.
And I was right.
Ok but I had this same dilemma! I watched like 5 mins of one and was yeah I don't wanna watch it but why was it such a big thing cause bleh
I watched them when i was like 10-12, and as a kid they were hilarious. Now they're just uncomfortable lol. The first one can still get a few good laughs out of me but that's about it.
>I've always wanted to know more about a movie without seeing said movie
??
The one comment I was looking for
My family always was like “these are so raunchy you should watch them as a teenager with your friends” and we did at like 16 and 17 and let me tell you I’m pretty sure it singlehandedly turned my best friend at the time ace. They have some aight moments but then there’s some moments that feel like you stepped on a nail but can’t say anything yet
People cannot be "turned" any orientation it doesn't work
@@adrienneczerni6516
Maybe not but it might put things into perspective
We really need to normalize communication and not just assume that smth is fine to do to another person. Humans are not a telepathic species.
Most humans used to be able to read body language. Not sure what happened since, I guess plastic is too blame?
@@julius43461 Body language isn't universal, stop relying on false ideas of a homogeneous humanity. Behaviour (which body language is) is learned and cultural.
@@Jane-oz7pp I’d like to see a proven source in this, can you link it? Last I checked, mirrored neurons are a thing….
Obviously these movies are harmful to women but also I think it's pretty damaging to men too. Growing up as a girl seeing these (and similar) movies, I genuinely thought for a long time that men are actually like gross cavemen like that, like lurking beneath the surface of even my male friends was some animal, and it can't feel good for guys to be thought of like that.
Not only that, the issue with movies like these is that they confirm the notion that men have to start having sex asap and "conquer" as many women as possible, or else there's something wrong. That's the first step towards becoming an incel. Because if you can't live up to that absurd expectation, it's a massive hit to your self esteem, which can lead to a downward spiral into shame, resentment and then hate.
@@ninawth good point
Men do have urges, that's true.
@@senister14 ...did you not read anything else that they said?
@@SpicyGelato98 I did and???
THANK YOU for addressing the fetishization of lesbians in media. Especially when those couples represented are usually just bi and conventionally femme and attractive. It plays off lesbianism as a sexual kink for bi women and straight men. It’s fucked up, and hardly anyone addresses it fully in the way you do when it shows up in movies and tv.
God who cares!
whatisgoingon I care. So does the person who commented in the first place.
@@killuminatoV01 You care enough to reply
@@M50A1 Exactly. Lol No logic there whatsoever.
Being bi doesn’t equate to lesbianism, we’re just bi. My sexuality is not some kind of kink, I fall in love with women just like lesbians. I just so happen to be open to others and am not limited to my partners only having a vagina. You may not of meant this in an aggressive way, if so there’s a better way to word this. If you did mean it in a malicious way (because bisexuality isn’t valid) then good for you, I guess.
It’s so refreshing to hear a dude talk about these movies like this.
These movies WERE super influential in its time. Mixed with a bunch of media with the same tone and the misleading idea of sex and women that main stream p*rn portrays, so many dudes have been unknowingly conditioned to view women they’re attracted to as sex objects.
And women have been conditioned by conflicting ideas of what the perfect woman is vs having sex = being a “wh0re”. It’s extremely frustrating and confusing to even view yourself as a human being and not try to be the fantasy that these types of movies/ media project.
And it’s even more frustrating to talk to men about it because it doesn’t effect them on a personal level the way it effects women.
Yeah not like youre talking like men are cavrmen that wont listen,its weird how many incel superiority shit women can get praised for
@HoNk I have, a lot. It’s 100% effected the way I view myself and value myself and I’m finally letting it go. So I’m not gonna cry about it anymore, I’m finally freeing myself
It’s a comedy. Get over it. American Pie movies still air on Tv and will live on forever while snowflakes like you will be mocked
American Pie feels so 2000 and reminds me how 2000 were sex obsessed and obsession with virginity
My generation was the tail end of this and I hated it. You gotta appreciate the irony that a girl was expected to put out for a guy but was ALSO considered a slut the second she did. You can't win for losing. I heard awful rumours about people I didn't even know.
The first one was 1999 though. So it was more late 90s.
@@TheListenerCanon The misogny was timeless though lol. I misread OP's comment. The American Pie culture of slut shaming women for literally anything was still super prevalent when I was in highschool and I graduated in 2013
And sadly, things haven’t changed.
@@rawkguy4896 Project X?
I'm more surprised they wanted me, an actual high-school kid at the time, to believe these adults, who LOOKED like adults, were high-school kids. Almost as bad as Grease lol
Believe it or not, this is what Hollywood thought teenagers looked like.
Jake Gyllenhaal was considered a "child" despite being in his 30's at the time.
@@i_will_not_elaborate That's because real teens had stage parents, worked shorter hours and needed tutors on set.
Don’t forget High School Musical
@@Space_CowboyHD they were late teens at least
So I’ve never seen these movies, but I’m assuming that using actual teens in these films would have been borderline CP.
Thanks for calling out the lesbian fetishization 🙃🙃🙃 that scene is so gross and i hate how men see women in love as something to insert themselves into
i'm amab nb and grew up on stuff like this and i agree they're people not living fl3shl1ghts.
To be fair that also happens the other way around, look at fujoshis. I say this is a gay man.
That scene was funny asf. When they tried to make the dudes kiss each other. Lolll
@@killuminatoV01 your gross 😷
@@killuminatoV01 plus i bet you have never see lesbians outside of the mae gaze in the first place.
Can confirm. This movie came out when I was in HS. The cultural shift these movies caused in the way dudes treated us was significant and horrible. Completely upended the dynamic and was extremely dehumanizing. It has been made worse and worse over the years via more and more “cultural shifts” creating a more and more dangerous environment for highschool girls, but the boys don’t notice the shift. Frog in pot analogy at play plus the fact that they are not the victims (although it negatively impacts them in other ways) Like Steve Bannon putting all the Mercer money into gamergate to create the alt right for political gain, which in turn exposed nearly ALL teen boys to incel/MRA/PUA concepts that got implemented into their everyday lives bcs they are at such an impressionable age (which was Bannons goal, as it shapes a mindset into one that is malleable into accepting the narratives that would make them vote in the ways he needs them to in due time) and that exposure accelerated/grew those movements. Hell, just the simp meme alone created a wave that made HS environments so toxic for girls that the local HS here creates a program that provided therapy counselors.
Edit to add a reminder that another part of the gamergate plan Bannon deployed was the creation of Milo Yiannopoulos. The Mercers (and a few others) gave Bannon endless funds to create such figures to “force white nationalist talking points into the zeitgeist” Their words.
Holy heck….I’d never heard of these movies, so I didn’t think they’d have an influence on culture at large, but egads…
"which in turn exposed nearly ALL teen boys to in El/MRA/PUA concepts"
You know those are not all the same right?.. They are different groups.. And HS girls are fine.. You guys are being hyperbolic with the language you are using..
@@Jaydavid25. With all due respect, Just because you aren’t aware of the nuance/intricacies behind how subtext and impact create a causal relationship does not mean it does not exist. Folks like Bannon KNOW you won’t get it/see it, that’s precisely why he pounced on the opportunity. Bannons influence alone has significantly decreased the quality of life for men/boys that the MRA/Incel/PUA groups prey on as well. Yes, literally prey upon. Bannon put a shit ton of money into deploying paid bot nets to those online forums to radicalize those men too.
As for HS girls, you haven’t the slightest clue what you’re talking about. I lived it first hand as a HS girl and living it first hand again by way HAVING a daughter in HS, engaging in community/mental health outreach with them etc.
The sooner you realize this reality the better off you will be, too. It’s very real and very purposeful. We have been living in an online ecosystem of purposeful manipulation for political gain/profit by MULTIPLE nefarious groups for some time now. If you’ve never heard of the frog in the pot analogy, google it. That’s where you are right now. You are in fact being significantly negatively impacted as we speak as well. Just because you don’t realize it doesn’t mean it isn’t true. Your refusal to accept someone’s lived experience in defense is a side effect of that.
Truly wish you the best regardless
@@lindenshepherd6085 You are much better off having never heard of them. Unfortunately most people don’t realize just how much these things impact societal norms.
@@Crystal-iq3wt With all due respect you typed a whole lot of... Nothing.. I gives no care for "Steve Bannon".. You keep putting those groups together just because they are groups that mostly consist of men, but they are different groups.. Being an Incel is not even particularly a bad thing.. It just is.. Do you know that men are 40+% of domestic violence cases (probably more) yet only have 2 shelters in the entirety of the U.S?.. And that for the first one feminist lobbied for it not to exist.. Young boys draw to those groups because they want something that won't tell them they are predators, misogynistic, and damn near worthless if they don't treat women like queens.. Girls in HS are fine for the most part.. They go through no more than boys in HS.. So yeah..
The ‘redemption’ of these characters isn’t a redemption, it’s just them realizing they can still get what they want without crime
Pinely, English is your second language? Seriously? As an English teacher I would like to commend you. *high five*
He speaks Hebrew and Italian too so English might be his 3rd language.
First time I'm watching him. In the intro I thought he wasn't a native English-speaker..? But then I thought he was? Haha. Its so subtle.
Learning additional languages is so difficult for me. I am so impressed by anyone who knows more than one language!
Whoa I’m impressed 🥳
I second Keeley’s sentiment. As a cake decorator, I am absolutely impressed with your confidence and ability to not only make great content but also being bi-lingual.
Don't feel bad, Pine. In AP Literature my senior year of high school we were reading out loud and I also said eh-peh-tome. It was a decade ago and I can still feel my other native English speakers judging the crap out of me.
I like the idea that people who mispronounce difficult words have often only read them, and more self-directed and autodidactic. For instance, I have very well read parents who could always help me with pronunciation of academic words, but for people without that kind of environment, it's inevitable they'll mispronounce words like epitome.
@@mekko902 yeah exactly! those who are self-taught in language tend to pronounce things in the way that makes sense to them. I mostly learned English by reading and being exposed to media so I still get it wrong occasionally despite having a high English comprehension level. however now I have some English speaking friends that were raised in an English speaking environment who have no problem correcting me!
Besides English is one weird language at times, its like there are no rules to it
Pronunciation is hard even for people gifted and talented at English. No amount of reading books will help, you'd have to look up how to say every word you aren't sure on, only to forget a large amount of them.
English is a non-sensical and weirdly difficult language! Literally anyone who learns how to be even mildly conversational in it as their second language is soooooooo impressive to me (I've studied Arabic and Japanese AND lived in areas where it was spoken for a year and still never got to the point I see most ESL people at)
Epitome is also a SUPER commonly mispronounced word 🙄How the hell is anyone who hasn't heard it regularly supposed to know it isn't pronounced like "tome" or "dome"!??!?!? People are just being jerks.
Oh man, me too. My teacher called me right out for that during a class speech. I was embarrassed and it made me never forget that word again.
This is awesome. I am 36, and always felt this way about these movies. Thank you for making this. The first movie was released the summer before I entered high school. I knew many guys who idolized Stifler and I feel it definitely has shaped the dating world that I grew up in. I had to deal with a lot of Stiflers before I found my hubby, and a lot of men my age still act like these movies are socially acceptable or relevant. Maybe it's a "pie in the sky" hope, but I believe your generation is changing the accepted misogynistic norms seen in society and reflected in these types of National Lampoon movies.
My dad loves these movies. So much so that he watched it in front of my sibling and I (we are both AFAB people that are part of the LGBTQ+). I was always grossed out and uncomfortable by it due to the sexual themes, as well as my sibling. My dad was clearly affected by it, being open to talking about vulgar topics involving 'what he would do' with women, be them fictional characters or REAL PEOPLE he doesn't know and just saw on the street (btw, we were both underage then). He also told my sibling and I when we came out as on the transgender spectrum that he still sees us as women, which only makes those conversations even more uncomfortable. It is kind of the idea that he doesn't seem to view women as people, and he says he views us as women still, so even if we know he cares about us because we are his children, it is still very weird.
Oh fuck, that sounds horrifying. I'm sorry that happened, that's not okay. Also, as an non binary person, I hope you had a good transition (in whatever way that was to you) and you are living your best, happiest life rn!
Tell more about your father.
Oh damn, I feel so sorry for your father.
@@basilchannel7673 based on low iq definitely
That's an awful thing to have to go through, I'm so sorry. I hope you and your sibling are doing well.
oh my, the early 2000s era of gross-out American movies, this should be good
Edit: btw, I read the description, it's nice to have you in good health again Pinely and I was right, it was a good video and an even greater pie
ooh ofc! eating a pie! I need pie in my life. :'(
yea :/
Fun fact Stiffler tested so positively with test audiences they added more of him in.
God that’s not surprising but still disappointing
That wasn't fun to hear. Stiffler guys were kind of hard to get along with.
yeah the 2000s did not like women that much.......unless they were hot and living s3x dolls.
Not the kind of positive testing you'd hope to see for that character.
Stiffler always got his comeuppance though that's what I liked most about his character he was a douche but ended up drinkin jizz unknowingly, had his enemy fuck his mum, was admittedly the grown loser in the later films to see stiffler fail was great
I was a "pick-me" "cool girl" back then, so of course, I loved these types of movies. I even went as far as to say this was my favorite movie at the time! It wasn't until I watched it again many years later (after I grew out of trying to be "not like other girls") that I realized how horrible most of it is. Yike.
Doesn’t deserve multiple yikes, just the singular Yike
God o fucking have the word pick me
@@chichichichichichiOwO dawg are you like 10
And then you became a “pick me” but for a different crowd lmao. You still seek constant validation
@@Space_CowboyHD right? I hate how this whole thing was created in the first place. "pick me" is horrible and used to shut down women especially if they are voicing something out that people don't like.
I can’t believe how many guy friends, male peers, or crushes told me to watch this or tried to make me because it was just ‘so good.’ Thank god I never took them up on that offer.
“How many cousins can Stifler have on just his dads side of the family that are all male?”
Me, whose dad has 8 brothers: Nope, that part actually makes sense
27:34 Fetishising a lesbian relation for jokes : can get problematic in time
someone get hit by a bell: NEVER get old
Bigotry is temporary, BELL IS ETERNAL
BELL SUPREMACY
@@stupidass69420 your name makes this so much funnier
Its satire the entire seroes is satire the characters are supost to be bad characteres of poblematic tropes
@@demonic_myst4503 'satire' that fails to be recognised as satire is not satire. satire actually has to make an argument against what it's mocking
I used to watch these movies when I was about 10-13 years old. As a little girl, these movies really shaped my view of sex, love, relationships, etc.
Not in a good way, obviously. I learned far too much from them bc my parents were neglectful at best so I learned what I could when I could sneak it yknow.
I wish I hadnt seen alla that at 10-13
This movie is a horrible and unconscious testimony of what Zizek explains about post modern society: pleasure is no longer a sin but an obligation, if you fail to live up the standards of constant extasis you feel guilt like a religious person when they do the opposite.
45:21 This was so triggering 😑 seeing someone trying to coerce their so into having sex with them and actually succeeding sends a very wrong message.
Lol
Arguably , the wrongest of messages.
Even ignoring the fact that he's manipulating her, that scene doesn't even consider her point of view on the matter.
"It's easier for you(a girl) to be a virgin because it means you'll stay pure."
Yeah, no. It's just as hard for women as it is for men except we also have to deal with a thing called Purity Culture.
To sum up; on one hand, we have adults telling us that if we're not a virgin, we're a wh*re and on the other hand, we have have our peers constantly pressuring us that we *need* to have s3x because it's cool.
You could easily look at it another way and say from the result of the scene that it sends the right message, she says, “It doesn’t work that way” and yeah he responds with an off the cuff childish line but the result is no, tough shit, it doesn’t matter what you want if she doesn’t consent to it. A pretty good message to get across to your audience.
@@KLOC2812 I get your point but it doesn't make sense that minuets later she was ready to have sex. if you're pressured into saying yes by manipulation you're not actually consenting.
The annoying thing is that characters who are awful people like the Stifflers can work, I’m thinking of Dennis from Its Always Sunny but he’s not treated as a hero at all lol. There are no fake nicey scenes at the end which make you sympathetic with him.
Yeah but you still like the character, it's called the ladies man. Arch type.
@@senister14 you’re supposed to not like Dennis’s character, that’s the whole point of him and the show??
@@Hi-en7xx really? We clearly have different view points because a lot of people like the show. It's very popular. Also it's okay to like Dennis on some level, like Joey from friends and Barney from how I met your mother. You like these guys for the same reason of liking Willey coyote from looney toons.
@@senister14 I love the show but the whole point is we’re following pretty horrible people, and yeah when you follow characters there are moments where you’re supposed to like or sympathize with them but they’re not likable people.
@@Hi-en7xx okay and? I would say they are in their own way, they do good things sometimes and they do have a moral compas of some type.
Just finding out half the misogynistic bullshit that was rampant in high school were mimics of plot lines from this movie is depressing
the thought of some creeps breaking into my girlfriends or my place in hopes of watching us have sex makes me wanna vom😭🤢and i would go absolutely ape shit on them if that happened, i wouldn't wanna play some stupid sex game💀
Your English is great, Pinely. Even native speakers mess up pronunciation cuz somtimes we've only ever read the word but never heard it said out loud. Like, other native English speakers, you know? Definitely not me no no no
A hour long, and on a 'Cult' classic no less
My favorite cult classic is _Puppet Master_ and _Evil Bong_
@@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943 Whose your favorite puppet? Mine is Jester.
@@PlagueDragonRat Six Shooter
holy crap somebody finally talked about it.the early 2000 were the misoginy years no cap
Eh. Pretty sure they were just an extension of the misogyny eras that preceded it. 🙃
@Ichijou Miyamoto They do have mental illness.
I see many cats in your future.
@@BishopWalters12 I see lots more of your mother's basement in your future.
@@Venonex Try harder, buttercup
Asexual woman here. Thank you. I'm not going to do the whole "me being asexual made me find this movie gross" song and dance, since I'm sure most decent people find this movie gross. I'd rather like to thank you for addressing how lesbians, bi women, and ace women are fetishized by society. I cannot speak firsthand on what lesbians and bi women go through, as I am not part of those groups, but I can speak on how ace women are treated. It's exhausting. People may label you as a tease or a waste and try to "change" you, they'll constantly say that you can't possibly be ace, and they might see you as simply less worthy of their time, or as inhuman or fundamentally broken.
The way sexuality is treated as a sign of maturity and adulthood in our society, is also gross and exclusionary (not just to ace people, but to people who may like to participate but cannot due to trauma or a disability), and leads to people feeling as if they are entitled to women's bodies, seeing us as commodities and toys, because of how sexual prowess is used to determine men's worth, somewhat related to how sexual attractiveness is used to determine a woman's worth.
An additional thank you, since as a man, people are so much more likely to listen to what YOU have to say, and the fact that you're trying to talk to people about this subject means that more people may begin to consume their media critically, and think about the way they think about sex, consent, and not just the women in their lives, but everyone in their lives. Misogyny runs deep, and it hurts women the most by a wide margin, but men don't exactly go unharmed either.
Someone here loves being a victim and putting labels
@@keylanoslokj1806 Gee, maybe it is the person who is labelling others as faux victims.
Yeah. Any person perceived as sexually unavailable to men is in for some bullshit. It's disheartening that this mindset is alive and well within queer communities, like Ace folks being told we "don't contribute anything" to the community. No matter the orientation, there's always some dude mad that you don't exist specifically for him.
the meta-humor of the girlbossification of american pie is funnier than the franchise itself could ever hope to be.
nice video! wish you had included a part about whatever the fuck stifler's mom was up to, iirc didn't she predate on a teenager? idk it's been a while since i watched them. always thought they sucked, even as a teen in the 2000s i only found them uncomfortable. this video however was very enjoyable, i hope you'll continue to do more long-form content!
yeah i think you’re right. very weird and creepy
Pretty sure they're all supposed to be 18 in the movie. They're high school seniors about to graduate
@@inyrui gonna be honest with you, i think that's still predatory, especially since iirc she's framed as seductive throughout and has known him and been around him for years. turning 18 unfortunately doesn't magically make you a adult with the same kind of maturity and agency as someone in their 40s who has literally seen you grow up. it's sad to me that media regularly frames this as somehow aspirational, especially when the teen/young adult is a boy.
like it's weird for an adult woman to f**k teen b........oh wait it is she should be in jail.
@@alljustletters I would agree, but it's a comedy movie where the whole plot revolves around them trying to lose their virginity in any way possible lol. They're of legal age and consented. In reality obviously it would be weird (although still legal), but it's a movie. An American Pie movie. No one is taking social cues from this film haha. Pretty easy to separate over exaggerated fantasy from reality for any intelligent human watching the film. That's just me though, I can usually let a lot of taboo shit fly if it's for the sake of a joke in a movie because i know where the real world begins and where make believe starts
I think the problem with a movie like this where the joke might be the characters are awful and we know what there doing is bad, you get people (whos personality matched what is being portrayed) who think you're laughing with them and not at them
Eh it's kinda on them if they dont get the joke.
@@dustygozangas8191 Not really if they're just children who dont have the logic to realize these are awful people, and then thi nk it's funny or cool to be like that as an adult. I think a lot of these movies are being completely sincere in their glorification of being a gross misogynist who doesn't value women or his friends. Not saying there aren't other great properties that accomplish the opposite (It's Always Sunny) while still having idiotic fans who miss the point but that is not the case with the AP franchise as a whole
Yeah, like chauvinistic predatory sexual fiends
@@herefortheshrimp1469 But isn't that a flaw with the person and not the movie? Just because a movie depicts something doesnt mean it glorifies. I'm not even of a fan of this franchise but going as far as claiming this movie glorifies gross misogyny seems reaching. I mean it's the violent video game argument all over again. Is personal accountability not a factor in this equation?
@@herefortheshrimp1469 Also even if this movie and others like it didn't depict such horrible behavior, assholes like that would still be a big problem regardless. As influential and corrupting as media can be, we can't just blame every social ill on it. There's other more corrupt institutions out there doing far more serious damage out there. Movies just happen to be the easiest target.
"this is just another language for me" is unironically a hard af flex.
Most bullies love passivism. That's not to say they themselves are pacifist, but people shaming you for fighting back usually arnt willing to practice what they preach.
I mean, passivism and pacifism are entirely separate concepts. One means to be passive, un-acting.
The other means to be peaceful.
I’m a 22 year old woman and while I remember the popularity of the AP movies in middle school and the “jokes” that became popular as a result, but it was never something that interested me. I love Eugene Levy as much as the next guy, but there’s some things I just won’t put myself through.
he really carried the first film.
AP movies is a very misleading acronym
I'm so glad that I'm not a Zoomer.
That last part is me with The Lone Ranger. I love Johnny Depp dearly but I’m not about to put myself through the horror that is a white guy playing a Native American character.
@@starrsmith3810 It's acting and Depp does have a little indian in him.
I'm AFAB asexual, and this sort of thing low-key scared me as a teen. I didn't get the appeal of sex, and the idea that it would be a huge part adulthood, whether I liked it or not, was terrifying.
Afab?
@@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943 it means ‘assigned female at birth’ :)
Same.
@@lesbianjimmyfallon For fuck's sake
Holy shit as an also afab ace it scared the crap outta me too. I never got the appeal as soon as I was old enough to “get” what sex was too and now on my early adulthood it feels like it’s still kind of inevitable which scares me but I try to get through it day by day
The misogynist-comedy trend of this era really did an outstanding job of catering to teenage boys by outright mimicking how an immature teenage boy would write a movie.
Even Austin Powers understood what consent was
Also pie🥧
It's not like we were chill with these movies at the time, but its wild looking back at the culture and seeing how we just gave this bs a pass😅
I feel bad for little girl me having to grow up alongside these movies
Was from this generation and loved these movies as a teen when they came out. Everyone I knew had seen them. The number of these "stunts" that were pulled on my friends and I in school later on (and how uncomfortable they were, but you were expected to be okay with it all), is pretty alarming to look back at
On the whole lesbian thing. I witnessed something like that when I went clubbing with a lesbian couple in high school. They were making out outside a bar and almost immediately got harassed by a group of guys.
However, one of the girls was famous in our school for her short temper, and sucker punched one of these guys. In response, his girlfriend started fighting, not acknowledging at all he tried to grind against these girls moments before. Ended up being a massive brawl with police involved. Worst part is we almost got arrested for 'initiating the fight.'
Teen sex comedies are fun to watch but I can tell the difference between right and wrong. The ones that can’t now watch Andrew Tate.
Theory: Steve and Matt Stiffler's grandfather was a cult leader, what in _Law & Order SUV_ called a "reproductive predator" or "reproductive abuser" (a guy who thinks a male's only purpose on life is to have children with as many women as possible). Grandpa Stiffler had lots of children, and instructed all his sons to have a lot of sex with a lot pf women, so the Stiffler clan could keep growing... or maybe to create the Ultimate Sex-Addict, the _Seductor Absolutis,_ the Definitive Sex Machine, the _Kwisatz Haderach of Poon Tang_ .... but that's just a theory... a PIE theory
Pitch that plot as a horror/thriller prequel to AP 💰
Kwisatz Hadarach of Poon Tang oml in dying!
NOT THE KWISATZ HADERACH OF POON TANG 😭😭😭 Dead. I have been killed.
I'm so glad that a dude is criticizing these bc other dudes will be more likely to listen and understand that WOMEN ARE NOT TOYS. Edit: also, pie.
Uughh we know that. This is just a dumb movie.
@@killuminatoV01 this dumb movie influences the people who watch it, especially young kids who probably shouldn't be watching it who do any way
@@killuminatoV01
So many kids learn about sex through media
@@namerequired8203 except literally everyone is treated like shit and not just women 🙄
Nobody in their right mind thinks women are toys.. LMAO..
"One time at band camp..." was constantly said on stage during a high school production as we extras were in the background pretending to party in a 1920s speakeasy. It made us laugh every time someone said it. I have never seen these movies but I just know that line used as an inside joke during showtime when we all had to laugh on cue in the background xD
I'm 33 and always wondered why everyone at my school was obsessed with these movies. They always made me super uncomfortable, being a woman may have had something to do with it
I mixed up American Pie and American Beauty in my head and was so fucking confused by the beginning of this video
It's fine I did that a lot during middle school and my first year of high school to lol
My high school friend's younger brother was raised on these and the epic movie style shit. I don't think it was the lone thing that made him a misogynist (the army sure helped 🙄) but it all came to a head when he tried to forcibly kiss me and played it off as a joke. It sucked, but not quite as much as as being forced to watch American pie 1-3 when me and my bff had to babysit his dumb ass.
I'm so sorry that happened to you.
I've been hit on in awkward ways, but thankfully nobody ever touched me or tried to. I was almost followed home twice but I got away both times. It's mostly much older guys that would do crap like stare at my curves or try to to look down the top of my dress/shirt.
I definitely think analysing the media at the time explains a lot. For example, I live in the UK so the films guys watched that parallels this would be The Inbetweeners. The UK one, obviously. That movie series actually holds up and isn't problematic so you can see how guys who watched it would realise women are actually people (most of the guys are awkward or idiots and the show and movies make it very clear they need to grow up before they get anywhere with girls).
Not saying there isn't problematic stuff from the UK, or that we don't watch American stuff, but The Inbetweeners is definitely the best example of a popular series that defined the culture.
Im genuinely so sorry. A kid I was TRAINING while I was in the military tried to do that to me once while WE WERE ON DUTY because another guy we worked with thought it would be funny to tell his dumb ass that I'd be into it...that should've been a bigger red flag because that other guy did turn out to be everything women are afraid of.
Ah yes a movie that shows both men and women constantly around sex is misogynistic even though they are treating everyone equally
@@chichichichichichiOwO I don’t think you know what the word “equally” means. You should learn more about it
@@herefortheshrimp1469 im sure i know more about it then you. has a man ever came up to you and actually talked about abuse that he has been through? if not then that goes to show no man feels comfortable enough to tell you it becuase their instincts tells them that you wont treat them with respect
Honestly a movie like this but with the target girl being a serial killer would be peak camp. She doesn't even know they're trying to do perverted pranks she thinks it's an investigation so she's doing some way too drastic shit to avoid being spotted at all and the dudes still brush it off until they get killed 1 by 1. Not to be taken seriously obvs just pure cheesiness.
fr everytime some fanboy defends american pie its always some comment about being too sensitive or not understanding the movie. noone has an issue with a movie addressing horniness of teenagers in a comedic framing, but as soon as it gets fetishised or misguided then the argument falls apart. i think it would be hysterical to watch a movie where they do dumb shit to get a girl aslong as the counterparts actually seem like proper people and not objects. this doesnt feel like okay anymore if they make up dumb shit about women and then it appears to be correct assumptions? like what??
“The Cult of Misogyny” is just how us women in indie film refer to Hollywood.
Well that's just plain not true
@@tacomaneternal6926 if is not progressive then is misogynistic maybe?
"If you don't protest the problem you are part of the problem something something blah blah blah"
I suppose that's the angle.
Or maybe they are talking about some barriers for women in the industry itself not in the movies produced, idk I am pretty dumb tbh
@@tacomaneternal6926 Are we already forgetting about epstein Island?
@@technicolorbarf6734 Epstein wasn't in the movie business tho
@@Puerco-Potter maybe but id say that hollywood has many female actresses, directors and producers hell my favourite movie of all time lost in translation has a female lead and director
so id say hollywood is pretty balanced
During my high school years, American Pie was so popular. Watched it and didn't like it. I thought it was incredibly stupid at the time. Basically I went from watching the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter and then going into American Pie and my standards for movies was like "American Pie ain't it."
Thank you for making this. It’s kinda fucked up how deeply sexual assault has been normalized in some of our media, and in specific nieches it thrives! But I’m glad to be here, but in with fuckers
As a musician, I’ve been told by most adults in my life that I simply must watch american pie because of the running gag about band camp which the series apparently has. I’m glad I didn’t bother.
I love the idea of you transitioning into longer form videos. They're my favorite ❤
Never really knew what American Pie was, and I never really cared to look into it. Doesn't look like I'm missing out on much.
I enjoyed the commentary and analysis in this video though! That pie you were eating looked good
I remember when I was little, being in the room with all of my older cousins who were watching the very first one and my mom came in and got SO mad. For the longest time I was convinced the movie was actually about pie and thought kids weren't allowed to eat it
Nice video, it's wild to look back and see what was acceptable back when my generation was growing up, and surreal to remember that I lived through it and accepted it in turn, especially as a queer woman. That said, it's important to remember that art reflects society, and that a mainstream writer's job is to attract a mainstream audience. Moreso than telling an impressionable audience what they should find acceptable (although that's a factor), they pander to what a wider audience has already decided is acceptable.
In a world where American Pie was never written, it'd never be pitched or probably even conceived of today, because it's so out of step with modern values that it'd not only be offensive but would read as unrelatable nonsense (of course the franchise is still going, but only as low budget derivatives cashing in on the in-built niche created by the existing name and nostalgia, it's not cashing in on the fact that wider society accepts these kinds of themes anymore). Similarly, something like Book Smart would never be pitched back in 2000 (or would have been horribly botched if it had been) because the whole concept would just be completely alien to the times.
The OG American Pie films are a time capsule, a reflection/observation of the early 2000s attitudes and, believe it or not, are a more empathetic and elevated derivative of similar raunchy comedies of the 80s and 90s (many of which were so problematic that they depicted straight up assault without writers or audiences alike even realising it, because the conversation around female autonomy was so nonexistent back then).
Without American Pie, Supabad wouldn't have had a convention to critique. Without social progress, Book Smart wouldn't have new social trends and perspectives to observe. The degree to which the events in American Pie horrify us today is a wonderful reminder of how far we've come in terms of social progress. From American Pie's "women are objects" to Supabad's "friendship is more important than women" to Book Smart's "turns out women are actually people too - even the gay ones!" we've come a very long way in just 20 odd years.
It's also interesting to see in the comments how many people (including myself) were quietly confused/uncomfortable with aspects of these movies as kids and it's so interesting and vindicating to see that conversation happening. And I have to wonder if that's not part of the reason we as a society have been able to move beyond this sort of writing. I'm sure there's also plenty of damage that's been done, but I think when you compare the past to the present it's clear that progress is winning.
how nonsensical to suggest that a writer is meant to only reflect without commentary. Art shapes society as much as it is shaped by it.
As such, mainstream writers have a duty to steer away from horrible crap like the American Pie series.
@@Jane-oz7pp Didn't say that, but ok
The only American Pie I will acknowledge is the Don McLean song.
An hour long pinely video?? Guess I gotta clear my schedule!
FCK the schedule.
Pinely is eternal
Life has no schedule. Life is what you want it to be. Time doesn’t exist. Everything always is
I love when someone is able to point out a movie or other type of media’s sexism or racism etc. without coming off as being really moralizing and without buzzwords like ‘problematic’ all the time. It’s really refreshing and shows that you don’t have to be super self-serious and righteous sounding just to make a point. Great job bro.
Yea I hate when people use words and have moral positions. Just be mute and amoral ya dweebs
I assume Levy wasn’t in the last one because he was busy with Schitt’s Creek. Dodged a bullet there.
I've literally never watched American Pie because it always seemed gross.
I can't wait to watch you destroy them.
Same.
You can't wait to see him destroy a 9 film series despite the fact you've never watched any of them? That's proper psycho talk
@@liamwynne566 dude it's a movie
@@liamwynne566 it's a movie mate, get over yourself.
@@cthrugrl it ony a movie
The only experience I've had with American Pie was seeing an NSFW scene at my friend's house and being confused because I was still too young to understand the need for horny. Was kinda put off from the get-go, and never watched it.
I think the point of Superbad's ending was a culmination of all the homoerotic subtext, the two boys realizing they had feelings for one another and that their fervent need to have sex with the girls stemmed from societal expectation and peer pressure rather than actual desire
they definitely did not have romantic or sexual feelings towards each other. they were good friends. and yes of course there is societal expectations of them it's a teen movie relax.
Lol this is an L take
@@iamhocus bro just ruined my night
Can we STOP EROTICISING HEALTHY MALE FRIENDSHIPS AND PLATONIC TOUCH?!
This attitude literally contributes to the s-cide rate of men because they _can't have a platonic intimate moment without having their sexuality dismissed, questioned or ridiculed._
As a mother with a young son who LOVES cuddling his friends and brother, I am so FUCKING SICK of this nonsense being spread and harming our boys.
I was 9 when the first movie came out and my parents let me watch it because they had poor judgement.
My dad took me to see the second one in theaters and when we were leaving he was like, "I...shouldn't have done this."
FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT. I recently watched the first two movies for the first time and was HORRIFIED by how disgusting and misogynistic they were. Even more horrified to see how many people just uncritically praised them wtf. About damn time this garbage pile was called out. thank youuuuuu ♥
Are you a Zoomer?
Get a grip
Because they a funny and gross. I don't see these moronic characters as examples to be emulated.
sorry about these losers above me, your comments is true and valid
@@YeTism no u
Don't feel bad. English is one of the languages I grew up learning, and having only seen 'epitome' be used in books, I pronounced it the exact same way for a long time. 😩
Paradigm is hard too, why would you spell it as paradigm instead of paradime?
I just learned today, after 27 years of life and a year after this video was published that I have been thinking and pronouncing both epitome and paradigm wrong. Why is English so weird?!
Did you say Stifler becomes a porn director!?
I work in the porn industry as a performer and I promise you that the industry would never let him in.
I’m also a lesbian and I genuinely think growing up with the trilogy actively stopped me from realising I was a lesbian years before I should have.
Oh also, PIE
I thought most porn directors don't see women as people, given all the rumored "rape on set" cases that have been going around.
Or the "you've arrived. But instead of fucking 1 like we said upon hiring, you're going to work with 9 men. If you leave you won't be paid a dime" scenarios
@@AleTitan I’m not going to pretend like the industry is perfect but for me personally I’ve had nothing but respectful interactions with producers and performers. I’m based in the UK so can only speak for our porn scene but I feel more respected in this job than any I’ve previously had.
It's kinda the point, it's so satire
@@massetozacarias5693 what’s satirical about it?
the lesbian fetishization and just the misogyny in general had me wrinkling my nose and thinking "ugh what the hell" but at 29:47 with the dog joke i swear my stomach DROPPED. the people who made these films srsly need a morality check
I worked at blockbuster when American pie came out. Our boss, a woman, took the entire staff to it. I remember sitting right next to her. This was also in Minneapolis and I'm from a tiny country town that I hated hence why I was living in Minneapolis. Lol. Anyway, it was very uncomfortable but she laughed hard through the entire thing
Thank you for being an ally to women, even when you'll inevitably get flack for it. It means a lot because, as much as it sucks to admit it, some men aren't going to listen to women when we voice our concerns. No matter what we do, some men are always going to think we're being shrill or overemotional.
I like that you're balanced, recognizing the merits of the works while still pointing out the toxic attitudes that can arise under the right conditions.
But yeah...I just thought I'd chime in and say thank you for being vocal about this kind of thing. I know there's a lot of pressure as an influencer, but it's still nice to see more men in the commentary genre supporting women.
honestly pinely is a good guy.
@@ddjsoyenby
He’s goated with the sauce
I'm sorry ma'am but uh where have you been?.. Women get all the support in the world.. People "men and women" listen to them all the time..
the films satire its not glorifying the behavior stiflers meant to be a unlikalkble dick but a satire of high scvhool popularity
@@Jaydavid25. I have to laugh at this. You're a comedian.
This stuff poisoned my impressionable mind so thoroughly I'm still trying to get rid of it
I was never allowed to watch these movies growing up because they were too misogynistic.
…I see why now.
It's so satire that people took it seriously
@@massetozacarias5693 It’s satire but child me wouldn’t’ve gotten that so it probably would’ve went to my head and fueled an opinion of women that isn’t true. You see what I’m getting at here?
@@xxxstellarxxx same as cartoons acting so exaggerated where I thought a banana peel can kill me, you see what I'm saying?
@@massetozacarias5693 Every child knows cartoons aren’t real. They don’t know that about movies.
Im about to turn 31 and i still remember the sound of the person behind me at the cinema gagging when stifler ate the turd. Im sure it will be echoing in my head until the moment i die.
What a great video, I always had a problem with these movies and I was quite sure why, this was an excellent breakdown of all the issues with the franchise. Well done pienely
I feel like there’s for sure a stiffler-to-tate pipeline
Loved this video, I totally forgot I even saw these movies until you gave a synopsis and I was like “ugh…yeah I rmemeber now..”
I have an interview with the actress from AP5 I still need to finish putting up, Christine Barger....turns out she went through some horrible shit as a result from playing in a comedic nude sex scene in a movie. She worked at a factory with her dad and some PoS coworker printed out a screenshot from the sex scene in the movie (this was pre-social media) and posted it in the lunch room for everyone to see. Ironically she's trying to make it as a children's puppeteer now. But hey, if Blippi can do it, anyone can! (he used to be a gross-out actor...look it up)
Dude i love the editing for the clips, really helps set the tone that it's old and outdated. Your content is still getting better with each upload, really digging the new style.
never knew the clasic line "one time in band camp" that my family references so much is from such an... interesting couple of movies. pie cant believe it
The Stifler reset after American Wedding falls into the "lovable misogynist" trope that Pop Culture Detective has talked about. You know, the idea that this type of guy is funny and harmless, and shouldn't be expected to change. And, you know, I think you're right. Movies like the entire American Pie series kind of inoculated misogyny for an entire generation, portraying women as objects to be possessed and implanting the idea that treating women like objects is just a fun, goofy, harmless thing to do.
Hes come so far. Hes dyed his hair like a real youtuber.
English is my first language and I still mispronounce Epitome. Good job, way to go pinely 💖
When an actor plays a villain so well that you despise and wish them dead I’m always amazed at their acting skills. So either Sean William Scott is an amazing actor…. or a total asshat in real life.
Edit: pie 😉
From what I heard, he’s a real down to earth guy.
i'm glad the "sex comedy" drama just died out
HEY! there are countlessss native english speakers that pronounce epitome that way. if you've only read it, it's hard to guess at that pronunciation. you're killing it!
I was today years old when I found out Jim in American pie, in fact, was not played by Adam Sandler.
The last American pie was 2020 😳 tf is wrong with this country.
2020 was a year of many plagues.
The fact that less than 20 years ago these movies were considerated "acceptable" and even "funny", shows that us as a society...might not be doing so bad of a job as we might think.
These movies were so bad, that even by the time the last one released on theathers came out (2012, I believe), it was kinda meta, and even made fun at how bad and ridiculous the previous ones were.
Only good thing this franchise did, was pretty much kill the "group of teenagers have to lose their virginity before graduation" genre.