I have cought salmon and steelhead near Happy Camp many years ago, thos fish were so tainted with algae they were not edable, fish ladders are not the cure, the salmon has collapsed, we have no choice but remove the dams.
What about the water that flows out of Klamath Lake? It gets lethally warm in summer and early fall. And it experiences major algae blooms. The rainbow trout that inhabit the lake must escape to springs or spring fed tributaries in order to survive. The thermal block created by the warm water will in essence act as a barrier to salmon migration. Plus, factor in all the other things that are causing the Chinook numbers to dwindle all the way to Alaska. We humans love to get caught up in simple solutions to very complex problems. And don't compare the Klamath River situation to the Elwha River in Washington. Very different situations.
So you moved here from Lompoc California, read one book, and now you know more about the Klamath watershed than literally hundreds of fish biologists, hydrologists, an countless experts that supplied the supporting evidence to implement this project. I am no expert, but I worked with many experts for over 15 years for the States of California and Oregon on the Klamath river. Klamath Lake would not turn into a dust bowl if the small dam at the outlet were removed! Please. That is just not true! Many of the statements you regurgitate from that book are simply not true. It's so frustrating to hear people say some of the things you said in this video. It's just a lot of misinformation. Unsupported, misinformation.
I appreciate your comment, I dont claim to be an expert at all. I am learning daily. As for the Link river and Dam, please look at my latest posting on this. Some evidence is undeniable. I understand the reason for this project, but I do believe many have unreal expectations of what they think will happen. I hope it does work. I have great respect to all those experts and laborers on this project. Thank you for your insight. Again, please see my latest video on the Link and the reference link I put into the description. The experts are aligned on the Upper Klamath
Thank you for being a voice of reason, George. It is much appreciated. Misinformation spreads faster than it can be corrected and for whatever reason people love to naysay wonderful projects such as dam removal and river restoration. Makes no sense at all.
@@terribleatfishing I saw that video but I'm done arguing with you. Like I said literally hundreds of experts have studied this. And you are going to sit here and tell me you know more about the historic range of salmon than literally hundreds of top level scientists! I'm done arguing with people like you. Misinformation is a real thing and you are the cause.
@@fourseasons_total_laptops I'm done arguing with people like this. I've dealt with them my entire life. It's so frustrating! I can't tell if they really think they know more than hundreds of top scientists? Or are they just trying to perpetuate a false narrative? But I have to maintain my composure. Thank you for acknowledging common sense and facts!
The fish passage was no good even with whatever they had. Not only is spawner fish passage an issue, but smolt out migration is an issue too, getting through the lakes with increased temperatures and invasive predators such as bass and then, getting sucked into the turbines. The smolt out migration was severely impacted by the dams.
I agree. That is why the real reason was water quality. Please see my latest video on the link river which is the start of the Klamath river. That history will open you up to a realization that you may not have.
100% correct Grey Ghost. Everyone just wants to look at the big adult fish, but fail to see the out-migrating juveniles. In order for this project to really work to its full potential, Keno dam will eventually need to be removed.
@@terribleatfishing I think it was water quality, and more so price of retrofitting them to pass current standard building codes for dams. It was cheaper for them to tear the dams down
Several of the dams slated for removal did not have fish ladders but yes, the water quality and temps were hostile to salmonid species in general. Taking those 4 dammed bathtubs out of the equation should lower water temps and substantially increase water quality.
The biggest reason for getting rid of these dams was also their age. Some were built in the 1920's, and it is wildly expensive to maintain these dams up to current standards, plus the amount of power or other revenue these dams would generate didn't justify the expense. It's literally cheaper to tear them down. Fish ladders just don't work. The fish often times cant find them and the grade is too steep for most fish to make it. Then you have all the baby fish trying to make it back down stream, and they are not very successful in doing that either.
it was alot cheaper when pacificorp or whoever owned them figured out, " hey will will just sign them over and take taxpayer and rate payer money to cover their removal while pretending to be "For the Fish" .
From wiki: Fish ladders vary in effectiveness for different types of species, with one study showing that only three percent of American Shad make it through all the fish ladders on the way to their spawning ground.
The sediment in Klamath Lake has been happening for 1000s of years, yes, BUT, in the 1960s the lake was deep enough to have power boat races off of Moore Park, Klamath Lake was well know for the sailing regattas sponsored by the Klamath Yacht Club, and Don Stonehill attempted a world record pulling water skiers. The ferry that used to run from Klamath Falls to Eagle Ridge sunk back in the 40s. That ferry was a popular diving attraction into the late 70s. Since then the sediment as accumulated so much only the top of the bell tower is visible. When I was in high school in late 70s we used to waterski at Cove Point. Now you cannot even run a boat out there.
@@terribleatfishing No sir. That is incorrect. The reason the lake has become so shallow is the result of an abnormal amount of sediment coming into the lake from agricultural runoff. The influx of sediment has been accelerated tremendously and is 100% caused by human activity! Had humans not built all the dykes levies and withdrawals all around the lake and in all the tributaries, Klamath Lake would be substantially deeper and clearer.
Klamath Lake will eventually become a meadow. But as it gets increasingly shallow over time, it will effectively become even warmer. When I read the glowing predictions about recovering salmon in this system, no one seems to acknowledge the effects of Klamath Lake on Klamath River. Plus all the other factors affecting the demise of Chinook up and down the coast, all the way to Alaska. Sorry to be the party pooper.
@@davidsalo8397 We stopped duck hunting at Klamath Lake 40 years ago. The ducks tasted like duck mud when you ate them. All the decomposed algae leaves a very distinct taste.
The dams needed to be removed ! But the sediments needed to be dredged out before removal plain and simple. It will take decades to flush out into the mudhole in the pacific out front of the klamath. Decades for the trees willow ash etc to grow to shade the river again.. As far as the sasenach narrating this go home to where you come from ! The river will heal itself just gona take time lots of time!
They have a new agreement. Pacific Corps has given control of the lake bed property's back to the Tribes. Your comment about the Tribes "changed their minds" is a problematic. A hundred years ago the Tribes had no voice. If they did. The dams never would have been built. Which Tribal members were part of the agreement? It is a long river. Separate tribes as I know them. Yurok, Karuk, Modoc, Hoopa, Shasta, Paitute.
The Elwha was blocked after dam removal with a rock slide so that may have slowed recovery of the salmon and other fish. The Elwha dam removal was the largest and a guide for future removals. It seems like the Klamath plan has much more of a ecosystem restoration effort.
You are mistaken about fish ladders allowing free passage up Klamath River from the ocean. Of the four dams being demolished, only JCB had a fish ladder installed. No fish ladders at Copco 1, Copco 2, Iron Gate. Also, Link River dams are close to but not the same height as the original head of Link River, thus if restored to original height I don't follow how you think it would drain the whole lake.
The agreements you speak of were never agreements between equals. And the book you read from doesn't cover much time as we FIRST Nations see time or history, we are still here in our territories
Great video. Never forget the entire Klamath River would have been destroyed for salmon had “Ah Pah Dam” been built. Also, why does no one bring up the 1 million plus salmon that migrated up Klamath River around 2011-12??? I believe water quality will improve with the dam removals but you’ll still have algae blooms on Upper Klamath Lake and Lake Ewauna. Tribes will also lobby for permanent minimum year round flows below Link River Dam. This is assuredly going to affect farmers in Klamath Basin. Also, what is being done to re-introduce beavers to Klamath Basin.
Absolutely! As for the water battles between the farmers and the native Americans, it will continue to get worse over time. The Klamath Lake area is a hotspot for drought. Check out the NOAA precipitation deficit maps.
Hi. They will only remove the dams that do not have fish passage. Copco 1 and 2, JC Boyle and Iron gate. The remaining dams already have fish passage in place. Part of the reason why the upgrade option was so expensive was due to adding fish ladders. The power company agreed and turned the dams over for removal. The restoration project is a victory for the ecosystem. Soon Salmon will return to the upper Klamath.
all three copco dams had fish ladders, the real reason was the water quality hurting the migration and ecosystem.. Yes it may be a victory for the ecosystem, nature will always find a way. THe Upper Klamath will never hold salmon I am afraid. It needs to be drained too and let the natural laws take hold. Look at my update on a lake on life support.. This predates mans intervention.
JC Boyle has a fish ladder. Copco 1 and Irongate do not have fish ladders. Copco 2 is removed now, but didn't have a fish ladder. Irongate had a salmon hatchery to mitigate for the lack of fish passage and the subsequent loss of salmonid production upstream.
Salmon will never return to upper Klamath without massive restoration taking place first. There is no way for any salmon to go beyond Keno dam. There are spawning areas north of Klamath Lake, but Klamath Lake and Lake Ewauna water temperature is too warm for smelt to survive. Then consider the drainage from the Klamath Reclamation Projects and Lost River are even warmer and flow into the Klamath River.
@@terribleatfishing There are only two dams at Copco. No, Copco 1 and Copco 2 dams on the Klamath River did not have adequate fish ladders: Explanation The four dams on the Klamath River that were removed, including Copco 1 and Copco 2, were not built with fish ladders that could accommodate anadromous fish. The dams blocked fish from migrating upstream for nearly a century. Removal In November 2022, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) approved the removal of the four dams. The removal of the dams started shortly after the approval. Fish ladders on other dams The Link River Dam and Keno Dam, which remain in place, have fish ladders that allow fish to pass through
Yes, prior to white people settling in the basin, putting cows everywhere, draining and flooding the region, the Klamath was pristine and literally full of salmonids. The Bureau of Reclamation and the agricultural interests it defends are still trying to make up this false narrative that the river was always a nasty warm algae stream. It's just not true! but some people are gullible enough to believe it. That's the sad part.
The removal of the dams thrills me, but I fear there will be trouble ahead. Long ago, beavers were plentiful along the Klamath River and all its tributaries, and their dams provided shelter for fish and other wildlife. The wetlands they created fed cool clean water to the river in the hot, dry months of summer. Today, most of the beavers and their wetlands are gone, and the long hot, dry months of summer are as fierce as they ever were. I fear that without the beavers, the river will become a trickle of water that is too hot for fish to survive during the late summer, and that the water quality will be as bad or worse than before the dam removal. The river restoration will never be complete or successful without serious habitat restoration and the return of beaver populations. I believe the tribal nations understand the necessity of habitat restoration, but I fear that most others believe the removal of the dams is all that needs to be done.
Man foolishly applies simple solutions to complex problems. It's almost like we humans think we can make right all of the problems we create with a solution that only addresses a mere part of the issues we now face. PBS Terra has elucidated the state of various ecosystems on and around planet earth. Very sobering.
My research is thorough. The silt is over 80 years of accumulation and is released all at once. It has made the river a sewer, ask anyone on the river. It is atm deadly to fish. Please watch my other videos in this play list and you will see the people doing this agree with this fact. There are no gaurantees this will work just optimism.
@@terribleatfishing Yeah, ask anyone on the river..... Well I'm on the river, been here for almost 40 years, and it's late January 2025. It's not a sewer. In fact it looks better than I've ever seen it! Right now I'm looking at big, bright 24" long steelhead swimming up Jenny Creek. Next I'm going to Spencer Creek where JC Boyle used to be, and I'm sure I'll see steelhead there too. Have a nice day, and I hope you live long enough to enjoy some steelhead fishing in the Link river in a few years.😊
Millions of migratory waterfowl historically use the Klamath/Tule Lake basin, so they also have to compete with agriculture and fisheries. Need to ensure these birds get their share of water too...
Another self appointed 'expert'. When he said he said carcinogens cause cancer, does he know his a** from a hole in the ground? Of course carcinogens cause cancer, that's why they are labeled carcinogens. Get a clue.
I love this comment.. I guess you don't mind that Upper Klamath is so toxic from time to time.. You just made fun of me, not really addressing the point. I am uploading another video atm, so you can hear from the experts and from those actually responsible for the project.
@@terribleatfishing your guess is as god as mine. Maybe get some schooling (college or university), before pontificating about stuff will help in your quest for le3gimacy. Guesses without facts make you look silly and paranoid. One of the things I have learned from decades of an analysis of chemistry experiments, computer programs and physics results is that larger problems tend to generate lots of smaller ones, first address the larger ones (undam the lower Klamath), see what happens and go from there.
I still like your arrogance. You don't know my level of education nor the contributions I have made for science. You see, you are at least perhaps as smart as the physicists I worked with at NASA, or your not. I am not sure, I will guess your smart. I have suffered many strokes and yes my mind isn't as clear as it use to be, but I believe what I have lost and what I retain is still good enough to combat you and many others. As for my impetuous nature, chalk that up to being Sicilian. Look at my latest video and perhaps you will see I am willing to look at all sides. @@TheFarmanimalfriend
And flood control, Pat. So when the next atmospheric river hit northern california and there is massive flooding down stream don’t start whining like…we’ll like a californian.
@@gibsonclan1able There was no flood control done by those dams. They stayed full year round. Flood control dams are lowered in the fall and winter to allow for runoff to collect
No matter your arguments for or against dams, ladders and other aspects of it. You have to know that fish thrived for eons. After the dams they can no longer thrive. The stream worked fine without dams and means dams don’t make it better.
Through the research I have done, which is quite a bit. I am convinced the Klamath River didn't flow as robustly as many think it did. If you believe in climate change, then there is another reason it will not spring back. My link river video shows crucial areas that choked the river dry before dams were ever created. In the end, we have what we have and I hope it works out. In the mean time, countless animals are dying and fish kills are abundant. Let's hope for the best.
Removing the dams will never, ever, increase the water flow! If anything, it will decrease water flow in the lower river. There is no water storage now. The dams, which regulated the water flow in the lower river, are gone. Water storage between Keno Dam and Link River Dam will only have limited amounts of water to support the lower river. Water fowl, protected bald eagle nesting sites, and other resources require that water level. Water levels of Upper Klamath Lake are protected due to restrictions by the endangered species act that protect the habitat of the two species of short nose suckers found in Klamath Lake. Sounds like maybe we need a fish hatchery near the mouth of Spencer Creek! Without Topsy Reservoir there should be a lot of open land to build it.
have you NOT seen the documentation on the recovery of the Elwa River? you need to do a lot more than just read an antiquated book to understand the ecosystems of riparian zones
Just another person moving here from California who knows it all and basically blaming the native americans for the water problems. Go drain some lakes and destroy some more ecosystems for farming and cry about the water afterward. In fact, go look at Lost River, and you'll see exactly what your dams do to a river for irrigation....it's a swamp, not a river anymore.
In this series of videos, please look at the one with the history of the Link River. I never claimed to be even close to having full knowledge. I simply am presenting facts as I find them. Yes the Lost river is another example. You will see the indigineous people built the first dam at the link without success. Sometimes nature chooses a way we don't like, like the upper Klamath drying up, the link drying up, marsh lands and forests replacing the water. Please look at the link river video. I don't claim to know is all. I am just learning like you.
The book I said has an extensive bibliography. Please look at my latest post on the link river and in the description you will find a link with FACTS. I am learning so much and so will you if you have an open mind. Thank you again for your comments @@GeorgeWHaydukeIII6396
I am poor! I have suffered many strokes as well so I am not as fluent as I use to be. I would hire Claudia Shiffer if I could would really help the viewership
I Live along the upper Klamath River and unless you live here you can't really understand the reality Of this. Killed everything living thing in The Klamath River. It has destroyed this Community. For a few Salomon that may or may not come up make it up there. They pulled the Plug and left. 😢
Here let’s give you a little bit more information from what you didn’t understand. The Hydro like the dams are considerably out of and don’t produce of energy first of all to be worthwhile to say keep open. Just like the old white Americans who came in here and raped in the Native Americans that they made all the money they can possibly squeeze out of this area. They’re going to give the water rights back to the Native American tribes. If you didn’t know Pacific KoRe main stockholder who helped to get all those dams installed to make all the money is Warren Buffett There were salmon species in this area one time and now we’re down to two. It’s the same old bullshit that people have to build hydroelectric dams to make themselves more money while fucking over the rest of the people in this goddamn state especially the Native American tribes But I didn’t need to go. I live here in Oregon to figure that out. I just did some research online.
You need to watch all videos in this series, it was the natives that wanted dams built (they tried building and failed the first dam in the 1800s), with agreements for hatcheries which were created. Drought is something that killed salmon migration and the dams were created to keep the flow. Please as I learned the videos become a lot more informative and you will learn something too. Unfortunately there is no going back as well intentioned the removal is, it will NOT create what they think it will. This is long term optimism with NO guarantees by anyone!
I have cought salmon and steelhead near Happy Camp many years ago, thos fish were so tainted with algae they were not edable, fish ladders are not the cure, the salmon has collapsed, we have no choice but remove the dams.
What about the water that flows out of Klamath Lake? It gets lethally warm in summer and early fall. And it experiences major algae blooms. The rainbow trout that inhabit the lake must escape to springs or spring fed tributaries in order to survive. The thermal block created by the warm water will in essence act as a barrier to salmon migration. Plus, factor in all the other things that are causing the Chinook numbers to dwindle all the way to Alaska. We humans love to get caught up in simple solutions to very complex problems. And don't compare the Klamath River situation to the Elwha River in Washington. Very different situations.
So you moved here from Lompoc California, read one book, and now you know more about the Klamath watershed than literally hundreds of fish biologists, hydrologists, an countless experts that supplied the supporting evidence to implement this project. I am no expert, but I worked with many experts for over 15 years for the States of California and Oregon on the Klamath river. Klamath Lake would not turn into a dust bowl if the small dam at the outlet were removed! Please. That is just not true! Many of the statements you regurgitate from that book are simply not true. It's so frustrating to hear people say some of the things you said in this video. It's just a lot of misinformation. Unsupported, misinformation.
I appreciate your comment, I dont claim to be an expert at all. I am learning daily. As for the Link river and Dam, please look at my latest posting on this. Some evidence is undeniable. I understand the reason for this project, but I do believe many have unreal expectations of what they think will happen. I hope it does work. I have great respect to all those experts and laborers on this project. Thank you for your insight. Again, please see my latest video on the Link and the reference link I put into the description. The experts are aligned on the Upper Klamath
Thank you for being a voice of reason, George. It is much appreciated. Misinformation spreads faster than it can be corrected and for whatever reason people love to naysay wonderful projects such as dam removal and river restoration. Makes no sense at all.
th-cam.com/video/haC--_SjnL4/w-d-xo.html
@@terribleatfishing I saw that video but I'm done arguing with you. Like I said literally hundreds of experts have studied this. And you are going to sit here and tell me you know more about the historic range of salmon than literally hundreds of top level scientists! I'm done arguing with people like you. Misinformation is a real thing and you are the cause.
@@fourseasons_total_laptops I'm done arguing with people like this. I've dealt with them my entire life. It's so frustrating! I can't tell if they really think they know more than hundreds of top scientists? Or are they just trying to perpetuate a false narrative? But I have to maintain my composure. Thank you for acknowledging common sense and facts!
The fish passage was no good even with whatever they had. Not only is spawner fish passage an issue, but smolt out migration is an issue too, getting through the lakes with increased temperatures and invasive predators such as bass and then, getting sucked into the turbines. The smolt out migration was severely impacted by the dams.
I agree. That is why the real reason was water quality. Please see my latest video on the link river which is the start of the Klamath river. That history will open you up to a realization that you may not have.
100% correct Grey Ghost. Everyone just wants to look at the big adult fish, but fail to see the out-migrating juveniles. In order for this project to really work to its full potential, Keno dam will eventually need to be removed.
100% agree
@@terribleatfishing I think it was water quality, and more so price of retrofitting them to pass current standard building codes for dams. It was cheaper for them to tear the dams down
Several of the dams slated for removal did not have fish ladders but yes, the water quality and temps were hostile to salmonid species in general. Taking those 4 dammed bathtubs out of the equation should lower water temps and substantially increase water quality.
Not only terrible at fishing,but also not an expert in marine biology and conservation 😂😂
Please continue the play list, I get better LOL
The biggest reason for getting rid of these dams was also their age. Some were built in the 1920's, and it is wildly expensive to maintain these dams up to current standards, plus the amount of power or other revenue these dams would generate didn't justify the expense. It's literally cheaper to tear them down. Fish ladders just don't work. The fish often times cant find them and the grade is too steep for most fish to make it. Then you have all the baby fish trying to make it back down stream, and they are not very successful in doing that either.
it was alot cheaper when pacificorp or whoever owned them figured out, " hey will will just sign them over and take taxpayer and rate payer money to cover their removal while pretending to be "For the Fish" .
From wiki: Fish ladders vary in effectiveness for different types of species, with one study showing that only three percent of American Shad make it through all the fish ladders on the way to their spawning ground.
I'd love for The Pitt River to flow into Goose Lake...
The sediment in Klamath Lake has been happening for 1000s of years, yes, BUT, in the 1960s the lake was deep enough to have power boat races off of Moore Park, Klamath Lake was well know for the sailing regattas sponsored by the Klamath Yacht Club, and Don Stonehill attempted a world record pulling water skiers. The ferry that used to run from Klamath Falls to Eagle Ridge sunk back in the 40s. That ferry was a popular diving attraction into the late 70s. Since then the sediment as accumulated so much only the top of the bell tower is visible. When I was in high school in late 70s we used to waterski at Cove Point. Now you cannot even run a boat out there.
Thats why I mad ethe video a lake on life support. Upper Klamath in reality should not exist at the moment. The link dam is the reason it does.
@@terribleatfishing No sir. That is incorrect. The reason the lake has become so shallow is the result of an abnormal amount of sediment coming into the lake from agricultural runoff. The influx of sediment has been accelerated tremendously and is 100% caused by human activity! Had humans not built all the dykes levies and withdrawals all around the lake and in all the tributaries, Klamath Lake would be substantially deeper and clearer.
Klamath Lake will eventually become a meadow. But as it gets increasingly shallow over time, it will effectively become even warmer. When I read the glowing predictions about recovering salmon in this system, no one seems to acknowledge the effects of Klamath Lake on Klamath River. Plus all the other factors affecting the demise of Chinook up and down the coast, all the way to Alaska. Sorry to be the party pooper.
I have a video of a "Lake on life support" that talks about just what you said. @@davidsalo8397
@@davidsalo8397 We stopped duck hunting at Klamath Lake 40 years ago. The ducks tasted like duck mud when you ate them. All the decomposed algae leaves a very distinct taste.
The dams needed to be removed !
But the sediments needed to be dredged out before removal plain and simple.
It will take decades to flush out into the mudhole in the pacific out front of the klamath.
Decades for the trees willow ash etc to grow to shade the river again..
As far as the sasenach narrating this go home to where you come from !
The river will heal itself just gona take time lots of time!
They have a new agreement. Pacific Corps has given control of the lake bed property's back to the Tribes. Your comment about the Tribes "changed their minds" is a problematic. A hundred years ago the Tribes had no voice. If they did. The dams never would have been built. Which Tribal members were part of the agreement? It is a long river. Separate tribes as I know them. Yurok, Karuk, Modoc, Hoopa, Shasta, Paitute.
excited, it's going to be nice, looking forward to floating the Klamath
Check out the Elhwa post dams removal. I see good things for both rivers go forward
No. They are very different situations. Please do your homework on this.
The Elwha was blocked after dam removal with a rock slide so that may have slowed recovery of the salmon and other fish. The Elwha dam removal was the largest and a guide for future removals. It seems like the Klamath plan has much more of a ecosystem restoration effort.
You are mistaken about fish ladders allowing free passage up Klamath River from the ocean. Of the four dams being demolished, only JCB had a fish ladder installed. No fish ladders at Copco 1, Copco 2, Iron Gate. Also, Link River dams are close to but not the same height as the original head of Link River, thus if restored to original height I don't follow how you think it would drain the whole lake.
Pleas3 look at my link river video it will clear things up a lot
The agreements you speak of were never agreements between equals. And the book you read from doesn't cover much time as we FIRST Nations see time or history, we are still here in our territories
Please se my link river video. Lots of documentation and thousands of years historical insights
Great video. Never forget the entire Klamath River would have been destroyed for salmon had “Ah Pah Dam” been built. Also, why does no one bring up the 1 million plus salmon that migrated up Klamath River around 2011-12??? I believe water quality will improve with the dam removals but you’ll still have algae blooms on Upper Klamath Lake and Lake Ewauna. Tribes will also lobby for permanent minimum year round flows below Link River Dam. This is assuredly going to affect farmers in Klamath Basin. Also, what is being done to re-introduce beavers to Klamath Basin.
I posted a video of the Link dam history and it is sobering. Please check it out. Thank you for watching
Absolutely! As for the water battles between the farmers and the native Americans, it will continue to get worse over time. The Klamath Lake area is a hotspot for drought. Check out the NOAA precipitation deficit maps.
Hi. They will only remove the dams that do not have fish passage. Copco 1 and 2, JC Boyle and Iron gate. The remaining dams already have fish passage in place. Part of the reason why the upgrade option was so expensive was due to adding fish ladders. The power company agreed and turned the dams over for removal. The restoration project is a victory for the ecosystem. Soon Salmon will return to the upper Klamath.
all three copco dams had fish ladders, the real reason was the water quality hurting the migration and ecosystem.. Yes it may be a victory for the ecosystem, nature will always find a way. THe Upper Klamath will never hold salmon I am afraid. It needs to be drained too and let the natural laws take hold. Look at my update on a lake on life support.. This predates mans intervention.
JC Boyle has a fish ladder. Copco 1 and Irongate do not have fish ladders. Copco 2 is removed now, but didn't have a fish ladder. Irongate had a salmon hatchery to mitigate for the lack of fish passage and the subsequent loss of salmonid production upstream.
please see my latest video on the history of link river. You will see that salmon never was a feature of upper klamath
Salmon will never return to upper Klamath without massive restoration taking place first. There is no way for any salmon to go beyond Keno dam. There are spawning areas north of Klamath Lake, but Klamath Lake and Lake Ewauna water temperature is too warm for smelt to survive. Then consider the drainage from the Klamath Reclamation Projects and Lost River are even warmer and flow into the Klamath River.
@@terribleatfishing There are only two dams at Copco. No, Copco 1 and Copco 2 dams on the Klamath River did not have adequate fish ladders:
Explanation
The four dams on the Klamath River that were removed, including Copco 1 and Copco 2, were not built with fish ladders that could accommodate anadromous fish. The dams blocked fish from migrating upstream for nearly a century.
Removal
In November 2022, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) approved the removal of the four dams. The removal of the dams started shortly after the approval.
Fish ladders on other dams
The Link River Dam and Keno Dam, which remain in place, have fish ladders that allow fish to pass through
Upper Klamath lake is naturally eutriphic. You did not mention the damage that ag runoff caused to the lake....just sayin'
check out my link river video
Yes, prior to white people settling in the basin, putting cows everywhere, draining and flooding the region, the Klamath was pristine and literally full of salmonids. The Bureau of Reclamation and the agricultural interests it defends are still trying to make up this false narrative that the river was always a nasty warm algae stream. It's just not true! but some people are gullible enough to believe it. That's the sad part.
so do you gain property?
I dont live in those reservoir areas. I live next to the Link River just below the Upper Klamath
I live in newberg only been k falls area once.
Below mean high water it belongs to the state.
The removal of the dams thrills me, but I fear there will be trouble ahead. Long ago, beavers were plentiful along the Klamath River and all its tributaries, and their dams provided shelter for fish and other wildlife. The wetlands they created fed cool clean water to the river in the hot, dry months of summer. Today, most of the beavers and their wetlands are gone, and the long hot, dry months of summer are as fierce as they ever were. I fear that without the beavers, the river will become a trickle of water that is too hot for fish to survive during the late summer, and that the water quality will be as bad or worse than before the dam removal. The river restoration will never be complete or successful without serious habitat restoration and the return of beaver populations. I believe the tribal nations understand the necessity of habitat restoration, but I fear that most others believe the removal of the dams is all that needs to be done.
I agree
Man foolishly applies simple solutions to complex problems. It's almost like we humans think we can make right all of the problems we create with a solution that only addresses a mere part of the issues we now face. PBS Terra has elucidated the state of various ecosystems on and around planet earth. Very sobering.
You need to research better the silt is caused by the reservoirs. The normal river flow carries most of the silt out of the system.
My research is thorough. The silt is over 80 years of accumulation and is released all at once. It has made the river a sewer, ask anyone on the river. It is atm deadly to fish. Please watch my other videos in this play list and you will see the people doing this agree with this fact. There are no gaurantees this will work just optimism.
@@terribleatfishing Yeah, ask anyone on the river.....
Well I'm on the river, been here for almost 40 years, and it's late January 2025. It's not a sewer. In fact it looks better than I've ever seen it! Right now I'm looking at big, bright 24" long steelhead swimming up Jenny Creek. Next I'm going to Spencer Creek where JC Boyle used to be, and I'm sure I'll see steelhead there too. Have a nice day, and I hope you live long enough to enjoy some steelhead fishing in the Link river in a few years.😊
@@GeorgeWHaydukeIII6396 thank you, I am glad it is turning out well. I am hearing good reports too
Millions of migratory waterfowl historically use the Klamath/Tule Lake basin, so they also have to compete with agriculture and fisheries. Need to ensure these birds get their share of water too...
Another self appointed 'expert'. When he said he said carcinogens cause cancer, does he know his a** from a hole in the ground? Of course carcinogens cause cancer, that's why they are labeled carcinogens. Get a clue.
I love this comment.. I guess you don't mind that Upper Klamath is so toxic from time to time.. You just made fun of me, not really addressing the point. I am uploading another video atm, so you can hear from the experts and from those actually responsible for the project.
@@terribleatfishing your guess is as god as mine. Maybe get some schooling (college or university), before pontificating about stuff will help in your quest for le3gimacy. Guesses without facts make you look silly and paranoid. One of the things I have learned from decades of an analysis of chemistry experiments, computer programs and physics results is that larger problems tend to generate lots of smaller ones, first address the larger ones (undam the lower Klamath), see what happens and go from there.
I still like your arrogance. You don't know my level of education nor the contributions I have made for science. You see, you are at least perhaps as smart as the physicists I worked with at NASA, or your not. I am not sure, I will guess your smart. I have suffered many strokes and yes my mind isn't as clear as it use to be, but I believe what I have lost and what I retain is still good enough to combat you and many others. As for my impetuous nature, chalk that up to being Sicilian. Look at my latest video and perhaps you will see I am willing to look at all sides. @@TheFarmanimalfriend
I ask why were the dams built in the first place.
hydro power. Each dam has a plant.
And flood control, Pat. So when the next atmospheric river hit northern california and there is massive flooding down stream don’t start whining like…we’ll like a californian.
@@gibsonclan1able There was no flood control done by those dams. They stayed full year round. Flood control dams are lowered in the fall and winter to allow for runoff to collect
If the local lake community is/was interested in maintaining the lake and their lake fronts, why didn't the community buy the dams and upgrade them?
Funny we are SLO transplants to Richland Wa, my family supports spacex at vandenburg
It was a great town to grow up in.
No matter your arguments for or against dams, ladders and other aspects of it. You have to know that fish thrived for eons. After the dams they can no longer thrive. The stream worked fine without dams and means dams don’t make it better.
Through the research I have done, which is quite a bit. I am convinced the Klamath River didn't flow as robustly as many think it did. If you believe in climate change, then there is another reason it will not spring back. My link river video shows crucial areas that choked the river dry before dams were ever created. In the end, we have what we have and I hope it works out. In the mean time, countless animals are dying and fish kills are abundant. Let's hope for the best.
The Dam Scam
Removing the dams will never, ever, increase the water flow! If anything, it will decrease water flow in the lower river. There is no water storage now. The dams, which regulated the water flow in the lower river, are gone. Water storage between Keno Dam and Link River Dam will only have limited amounts of water to support the lower river. Water fowl, protected bald eagle nesting sites, and other resources require that water level. Water levels of Upper Klamath Lake are protected due to restrictions by the endangered species act that protect the habitat of the two species of short nose suckers found in Klamath Lake. Sounds like maybe we need a fish hatchery near the mouth of Spencer Creek! Without Topsy Reservoir there should be a lot of open land to build it.
I agree with you and is you see the Topsy area now it is a wimpy creek
Dams are gone now remove the Nets permanently.
Sure, along with all the honky snaggers!
have you NOT seen the documentation on the recovery of the Elwa River? you need to do a lot more than just read an antiquated book to understand the ecosystems of riparian zones
thumbs down. get off the stage
continue with the playlist, I have done a lot more research on this subject. I appreciate you watching this.
Just another person moving here from California who knows it all and basically blaming the native americans for the water problems. Go drain some lakes and destroy some more ecosystems for farming and cry about the water afterward. In fact, go look at Lost River, and you'll see exactly what your dams do to a river for irrigation....it's a swamp, not a river anymore.
In this series of videos, please look at the one with the history of the Link River. I never claimed to be even close to having full knowledge. I simply am presenting facts as I find them. Yes the Lost river is another example. You will see the indigineous people built the first dam at the link without success. Sometimes nature chooses a way we don't like, like the upper Klamath drying up, the link drying up, marsh lands and forests replacing the water. Please look at the link river video. I don't claim to know is all. I am just learning like you.
@@terribleatfishing You keep calling what you read "facts" without even citing a source. You regurgitate opinions.
The book I said has an extensive bibliography. Please look at my latest post on the link river and in the description you will find a link with FACTS. I am learning so much and so will you if you have an open mind. Thank you again for your comments
@@GeorgeWHaydukeIII6396
You need to hire someone to do your presentation...
I am poor! I have suffered many strokes as well so I am not as fluent as I use to be. I would hire Claudia Shiffer if I could would really help the viewership
@@terribleatfishing I enjoy your videos which are closer to how I would present them as an interested person but not an expert youtube presenter.
@@sinna7060 thank you so much
I Live along the upper Klamath River and unless you live here you can't really understand the reality
Of this. Killed everything living thing in The Klamath River. It has destroyed this Community. For a few Salomon that may or may not come up make it up there.
They pulled the Plug and left. 😢
Cry me a river!,
very funny
Thanks!
Here let’s give you a little bit more information from what you didn’t understand.
The Hydro like the dams are considerably out of and don’t produce of energy first of all to be worthwhile to say keep open.
Just like the old white Americans who came in here and raped in the Native Americans that they made all the money they can possibly squeeze out of this area. They’re going to give the water rights back to the Native American tribes.
If you didn’t know Pacific KoRe main stockholder who helped to get all those dams installed to make all the money is Warren Buffett
There were salmon species in this area one time and now we’re down to two.
It’s the same old bullshit that people have to build hydroelectric dams to make themselves more money while fucking over the rest of the people in this goddamn state especially the Native American tribes
But I didn’t need to go. I live here in Oregon to figure that out. I just did some research online.
You need to watch all videos in this series, it was the natives that wanted dams built (they tried building and failed the first dam in the 1800s), with agreements for hatcheries which were created. Drought is something that killed salmon migration and the dams were created to keep the flow. Please as I learned the videos become a lot more informative and you will learn something too. Unfortunately there is no going back as well intentioned the removal is, it will NOT create what they think it will. This is long term optimism with NO guarantees by anyone!