I love your channel and it brings back so many good memories for me. I'm so glad I was able to save most of my AH games and miss the days I could pick up a new game at the local toy store. Also, I didn't realize there were so many gaming conventions back then. Too bad I was too young to travel to any of them.
Excellent history of the pinnacle of Avalon Hill. At one time I owned close to 30 Avalon Hill titles, today I only own 4. One of them, my favorite of all time, is Up Front and its companion expansions. It is one of the most replayable games I’ve ever owned, and love the tension you can create in such a short space of time. I had forgotten, or hadn’t realized, how much production AH put into fantasy games. They were never my cup of tea, so I pretty much ignored them. I just could not get into ASL because of the sheer heaviness of the game, but I know there are a lot of devoted fans out there and it’s a great system.
A nice retrospective. I owned several of these games. Forgot just how much fantasy stuff they had put out, which I didn't ever touch. Advanced Squad Leader kind of annoyed me because they made it more complicated, and then there was the buying it all over again aspect. I only bought the first module. Up Front is one of the few games I hung on to when I made a major move 20 years ago. It is another that I didn't bother to get the add ons. From your information, I am glad that I didn't, as the lack of new cards for jungle and desert is a bit of a cop out. The artwork on the cards was nice in the original game. Thanks for putting this together.
Thanks for watching! Yes, the new nationalities for Up Front were pretty cool, but the lack of new cards was not only disappointing but surprising for such a successful and highly regarded game
I own a copy of Up Front and the expansion, Banzi. It is quite detailed in that you are playing with a squad of indivigual men who have to be manuvered seperately. It's a realy good game.
4x games have come a long way. My first intro into the SciFi genre was an obscure "square & counter" board game called Second Empire by a forgotten company named Dimension Six. Also loved playing "Master of Orion" on DOS 5 of my 386sx computer which I understand was MicroProse's attempt to bring Stellar Conquest to PC gaming.
@@LegendaryTactics Absolutely. Space Empires 4x was what brought me back into board games and Eclipse 2nd Dawn is my favorite, beautiful engine and presentation.
While this is video is about board games, I still have my cassette tape of Midway Campaign from AH microcomputer games division. From 1983 for a number of 8 bit micros. It was the first game I bought for my C64.
As do I. I remember that that program was just a simple game in BASIC, it wasn't protected at all, and I was able get into the code and alter the forces to make the game harder.
Naval War is a super fun beer drinking game. This is the game we would play when we were more interested in drinking and teasing each other over other games. Another game like this (not AH) is Nuclear War. It's a card game as well with about the same difficulty and complexity as Naval War. Many of the event cards were quite funny as well, on purpose. Risque sounds like an early predecessor to Card Against Humanity
Funny cards in a game called Nuclear War? Interesting. Yes, it's possible Risque inspired other games, but I don't think it sold terrifically well, so it may not have had the necessary... exposure...
@@LegendaryTactics Yeah it had some funny 'event cards' not funny in their effect, but the wording and artwork is often tongue in cheek. The game ended in a tie quite often, as losing your last population lets you do a final strike with whatever cards you have remaining. I've seen a 4 player game where everyone was alive at the start of the turn, and nobody was left at the end of it. There is an expansion, too called Nuclear Escalation. Basically just some new card additions. If you ever see a cheap copy somewhere, I strongly suggest you pick it up. Fun ,easy, light. It's got some strategy, too. You have to play cards two turns in advance. In other words, you have 2 down cards, and each turn you put down a third card and flip the first card, so you are always choosing cards that wont get played until 2 turns following. A strike consists of two elements, the payload and the delivery system. So the first card you play may be a rocket (Saturn, Polaris, Atlas, etc) and the 2nd is the payload, up to 100 megatons. No dice but there is a spinner that gives results of the strike. Lots more than that. Defense platforms, propaganda cards, it's got some depth for such a simple game.
Yes, of course! I always need to take a bit of a break after each one, as the research, writing, and editing is a little intense, but I will definitely finish the series by the end of this year!
I realize this channel is devoted to boardgames, but I'd love it if you guys did a video of the best PC game equivalents to a boardgame. For example, I feel like Steel Panthers is the closest equivalent to Squad Leader. One of the Hearts of Iron games (I prefer Darkest Hour) is the closest thing to Third Reich. Conquistador mentioned in this video reminds of the Europa Universalis series of games or Victoria series of games. Just an idea I had.
Yes, I like the idea. I'll add it to our list. Not sure when we could get to it as we would like to try as many of these games as possible before presenting on them, but it's a good idea for a video or even a series. Thanks!
@@LegendaryTactics Awesome. And I should have added the PC games I mentioned are only the ones I'm most familiar with. I believe Matrix Games has produced a series of games closer to Third Reich than Paradox's Hearts of Iron, but I've never played those.
I've been enjoying the series and it's actually what influenced me to subscribe. IMO, Gunslinger isn't unique. Worthington has published Cowboys and then Cowboys ll where players are engaging in gunfights amongst themselves. Sure, they can also do other things (Bank robberies, cattle rustling, stagecoach holdups, jail breaks, lynch mobs), but PVP is a large part of the game, and they do have many western personalities (Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday, Jesse James, Billy the kid).
I hadn't heard of that one! It looks like Cowboys came out in 2007 and Cowboys 2 in 2020. And it definitely looks like Gunslinger! You would think with the widespread popularity of the Wild West in general that there would be a deluge of games on the topic.
@@LegendaryTactics Yeah, I agree. Board games, not so much. I don't think Worthington sold as many Cowboy lls as they had hoped. Shadows of Brimstone merged the West with horror. Now in RPG there are a bunch focused on the West (but again, usually merged with horror/weird magic). This year, Weird Frontiers came out. The book was massive (900 pages) and about half of it is magic. LOL It's based off DCC (Dungeon Crawl Classics), so while you could shoot each other, it's more likely your group will be going up against bandits, outlaws, or crazy gonzo magic stuff. I look at WF as the answer to the question 'what would SoB look like as a RPG?' *grins*
The lineage of gunslinger is most likely the countless cowboy gunfight miniatures games of the 60s and 70s. Have a deck of randomly drawn playing cards where numbers or suites were assigned gunslinger like actions were common as well.
Hi there! Thanks for letting me know about that. I'd have to double check, but it may be simply that there wasn't an image available. As I can't own them all, I have to rely on images that I can find, and preferably as generic as possible. Some games have very little footprint online, so I do my best with what I have.
I'm surprised to hear that the colonial theme is becoming less popular in wargames due to supposed moral scruples! So, one can play without hesitation as the armies of Hitler, Stalin, or even Julius Caesar (the latter having massacred a quarter of the population of Gaul during his conquest), but on the other hand, we cannot play as the Conquistadors! It seems completely incomprehensible to me. Thanks nonetheless for your work on the history of Avalon Hill.
Yes, I know - it's all very inconsistent. An example of this is Puerto Rico, which was reworked into the 1897 edition, which had a more palatable format.
@@LegendaryTactics a long script or whats 😁? anyway excellent channel , good editing even if i don't like so much the background music for this series. I'm really new to the hobby and your help me a lot . A really good channel to learn what is this hobby and understood rules! 👌
Well, there are some games that are being remade, like Puerto Rico 1897, to remove colonial elements. There is a lot of discussion about that on Reddit and the 'Geek, for example, that you can check out.
Brilliant stuff. I've just been loaned a copy of panzerblitz. B17 Qots looks so good. I have GMT The hunters which I believe is inspired by that. Would love to play it. Big question: why can't these classics by AH be reissued? Kickstarter could help, no? Sorry if I've missed something.
The question is always a financial one. There are some people who would buy a brand new B-17 QOTS, for example, but are there enough? Everyone is so obsessed with the newest designs these days, to the point where a game that is only a few years old will get overlooked. I think GMT Games is doing the best they can with reprints for MBT and The Russian Campaign, etc. So I would look at supporting their efforts using their P500 system. If there is enough demand, the games will get remade and will survive, or even thrive!
@LegendaryTactics thank you. I played a limited copy of the hunters, that i printed myself from files on bgg, cutting out little tokens myself, then finally got the p500 (hooray!) from gmt once it reached its target. I absolutely love it ( terrific game imo). Back to b17. I've seen dogeared copies of it on ebay for varying amounts. Supplementary question: who "owns" the A.H properties now? Or will I find out in further videos? My pal has just told me that I can have panzerblitz...so that's a boost. My first foray into hex game, but another pal played it in his youth, so i hopefully will get a game soon. I should add, I don’t play online. Physical copies only.
I dont get the big deal about playing colonialism style games. 1. its just a game 2. If we dont REMEMBER history we are doomed to repeat it. 3. Great video series btw 4, we play ww2 games and hitler was a horrific monster! same with games with the soviets but in that case Stalin
I agree with all of your points (especially point 3 LOL). I think wargaming itself is a specific niche, and that niche is very interested in recreating history as it happened. More broadly, I think people prefer themes that are more palatable and safe, for better or for worse.
Cool! I even saw myself, as an ASL Leader 8-1 Sgt! Earned through "skill" of answering a tactical puzzle in "The General"
Wow! Congratulations! You will live on forever in cardboard form!
I love your channel and it brings back so many good memories for me. I'm so glad I was able to save most of my AH games and miss the days I could pick up a new game at the local toy store. Also, I didn't realize there were so many gaming conventions back then. Too bad I was too young to travel to any of them.
Yes, I never went to a game convention until going to Gen Con in 2016! I was missing out! Thanks so much for watching!
this is such a great series on a great company. i still have upfront
Thank you so much, and thank you for watching!!
Excellent history of the pinnacle of Avalon Hill. At one time I owned close to 30 Avalon Hill titles, today I only own 4. One of them, my favorite of all time, is Up Front and its companion expansions. It is one of the most replayable games I’ve ever owned, and love the tension you can create in such a short space of time.
I had forgotten, or hadn’t realized, how much production AH put into fantasy games. They were never my cup of tea, so I pretty much ignored them. I just could not get into ASL because of the sheer heaviness of the game, but I know there are a lot of devoted fans out there and it’s a great system.
Up Front is a great game, and I still want to do a bunch of coverage of that for the channel!
A nice retrospective. I owned several of these games. Forgot just how much fantasy stuff they had put out, which I didn't ever touch.
Advanced Squad Leader kind of annoyed me because they made it more complicated, and then there was the buying it all over again aspect. I only bought the first module.
Up Front is one of the few games I hung on to when I made a major move 20 years ago. It is another that I didn't bother to get the add ons. From your information, I am glad that I didn't, as the lack of new cards for jungle and desert is a bit of a cop out. The artwork on the cards was nice in the original game.
Thanks for putting this together.
Thanks for watching! Yes, the new nationalities for Up Front were pretty cool, but the lack of new cards was not only disappointing but surprising for such a successful and highly regarded game
Yea up front is a bit of a keeper 👍
Thanks for an enjoyable walk down memory lane. I have always thought Conquistador was under appreciated.
You're welcome! It looks really interesting, but I haven't tried it yet...
Thank you for this series. I believe Up Front was the best original game AH published and I have a lot of them!
Awesome! I am finishing up the series now and it should be completed in the next few weeks
I own a copy of Up Front and the expansion, Banzi. It is quite detailed in that you are playing with a squad of indivigual men who have to be manuvered seperately. It's a realy good game.
It is really good! I have the base game and both expansions myself.
I still have both games, too.
Have you made Part 7? I'm very intrigued by your series.
Yes, it's all done and scheduled for Wednesday of this week!
@@LegendaryTactics Sweet! I loved these games and the General magazine.
4x games have come a long way. My first intro into the SciFi genre was an obscure "square & counter" board game called Second Empire by a forgotten company named Dimension Six. Also loved playing "Master of Orion" on DOS 5 of my 386sx computer which I understand was MicroProse's attempt to bring Stellar Conquest to PC gaming.
Yes, things have come a long way. Are you a fan of Eclipse? Space Empires 4x?
@@LegendaryTactics Absolutely. Space Empires 4x was what brought me back into board games and Eclipse 2nd Dawn is my favorite, beautiful engine and presentation.
While this is video is about board games, I still have my cassette tape of Midway Campaign from AH microcomputer games division. From 1983 for a number of 8 bit micros. It was the first game I bought for my C64.
Nice! Once this series is done, I will be doing an episode on the video game division of Avalon Hill!
That's so awesome. I sometimes forget that AH had a computer game division. I've always wondered how good and fun those games were.
As do I. I remember that that program was just a simple game in BASIC, it wasn't protected at all, and I was able get into the code and alter the forces to make the game harder.
Naval War is a super fun beer drinking game. This is the game we would play when we were more interested in drinking and teasing each other over other games. Another game like this (not AH) is Nuclear War. It's a card game as well with about the same difficulty and complexity as Naval War. Many of the event cards were quite funny as well, on purpose.
Risque sounds like an early predecessor to Card Against Humanity
Funny cards in a game called Nuclear War? Interesting.
Yes, it's possible Risque inspired other games, but I don't think it sold terrifically well, so it may not have had the necessary... exposure...
@@LegendaryTactics Yeah it had some funny 'event cards' not funny in their effect, but the wording and artwork is often tongue in cheek. The game ended in a tie quite often, as losing your last population lets you do a final strike with whatever cards you have remaining. I've seen a 4 player game where everyone was alive at the start of the turn, and nobody was left at the end of it. There is an expansion, too called Nuclear Escalation. Basically just some new card additions. If you ever see a cheap copy somewhere, I strongly suggest you pick it up. Fun ,easy, light. It's got some strategy, too. You have to play cards two turns in advance. In other words, you have 2 down cards, and each turn you put down a third card and flip the first card, so you are always choosing cards that wont get played until 2 turns following. A strike consists of two elements, the payload and the delivery system. So the first card you play may be a rocket (Saturn, Polaris, Atlas, etc) and the 2nd is the payload, up to 100 megatons. No dice but there is a spinner that gives results of the strike. Lots more than that. Defense platforms, propaganda cards, it's got some depth for such a simple game.
Will there be a part 7 of this great series?
Yes, of course! I always need to take a bit of a break after each one, as the research, writing, and editing is a little intense, but I will definitely finish the series by the end of this year!
Awesome! I'm really looking forward to it! @@LegendaryTactics
Waiting for part 7 …
Working on it now! The whole series will be done by the end of the year, I promise!
There's an ASL-ish game on Steam now called Second Front.
Ooo, thanks for the heads-up - I'll take a look
I realize this channel is devoted to boardgames, but I'd love it if you guys did a video of the best PC game equivalents to a boardgame. For example, I feel like Steel Panthers is the closest equivalent to Squad Leader. One of the Hearts of Iron games (I prefer Darkest Hour) is the closest thing to Third Reich. Conquistador mentioned in this video reminds of the Europa Universalis series of games or Victoria series of games. Just an idea I had.
Yes, I like the idea. I'll add it to our list. Not sure when we could get to it as we would like to try as many of these games as possible before presenting on them, but it's a good idea for a video or even a series. Thanks!
@@LegendaryTactics Awesome. And I should have added the PC games I mentioned are only the ones I'm most familiar with. I believe Matrix Games has produced a series of games closer to Third Reich than Paradox's Hearts of Iron, but I've never played those.
I've been enjoying the series and it's actually what influenced me to subscribe.
IMO, Gunslinger isn't unique. Worthington has published Cowboys and then Cowboys ll where players are engaging in gunfights amongst themselves. Sure, they can also do other things (Bank robberies, cattle rustling, stagecoach holdups, jail breaks, lynch mobs), but PVP is a large part of the game, and they do have many western personalities (Wyatt Earp, Doc Holliday, Jesse James, Billy the kid).
I hadn't heard of that one! It looks like Cowboys came out in 2007 and Cowboys 2 in 2020. And it definitely looks like Gunslinger! You would think with the widespread popularity of the Wild West in general that there would be a deluge of games on the topic.
@@LegendaryTactics Yeah, I agree. Board games, not so much. I don't think Worthington sold as many Cowboy lls as they had hoped. Shadows of Brimstone merged the West with horror. Now in RPG there are a bunch focused on the West (but again, usually merged with horror/weird magic). This year, Weird Frontiers came out. The book was massive (900 pages) and about half of it is magic. LOL It's based off DCC (Dungeon Crawl Classics), so while you could shoot each other, it's more likely your group will be going up against bandits, outlaws, or crazy gonzo magic stuff. I look at WF as the answer to the question 'what would SoB look like as a RPG?' *grins*
The lineage of gunslinger is most likely the countless cowboy gunfight miniatures games of the 60s and 70s. Have a deck of randomly drawn playing cards where numbers or suites were assigned gunslinger like actions were common as well.
37:35 Tha's MMP's version of Beyond Valor, not Avalon Hill's. Why not show the original?
Hi there! Thanks for letting me know about that. I'd have to double check, but it may be simply that there wasn't an image available. As I can't own them all, I have to rely on images that I can find, and preferably as generic as possible. Some games have very little footprint online, so I do my best with what I have.
I'm surprised to hear that the colonial theme is becoming less popular in wargames due to supposed moral scruples! So, one can play without hesitation as the armies of Hitler, Stalin, or even Julius Caesar (the latter having massacred a quarter of the population of Gaul during his conquest), but on the other hand, we cannot play as the Conquistadors! It seems completely incomprehensible to me. Thanks nonetheless for your work on the history of Avalon Hill.
Yes, I know - it's all very inconsistent. An example of this is Puerto Rico, which was reworked into the 1897 edition, which had a more palatable format.
What happened AFTER 1985? This is a cliffhanger finish!
I just finished the script! I'm away at the moment but stay tuned! I want to finish off this series as soon as I can!
@@LegendaryTactics a long script or whats 😁?
anyway excellent channel , good editing even if i don't like so much the background music for this series.
I'm really new to the hobby and your help me a lot . A really good channel to learn what is this hobby and understood rules! 👌
Russian Front was my favorite simulation of WW II eastern front war.
Yes, I've heard great things about it, although I feel obligated to try the Russian campaign first
I think you meant Streets of Fire, not Streets of Despair.
Oops, yes, I made a mistake on that one
@@LegendaryTactics I really enjoy these videos. I remember when I got my first copy of Tactics II, early 80s I think.
The line should be "People who forgot history actually happened are uncomfortable with themes of colonialism" lol
Yes, it's a tricky topic, and one that is still being debated fiercely
"board gamers have become increasingly uncomfortable with colonialism" Source?
Well, there are some games that are being remade, like Puerto Rico 1897, to remove colonial elements. There is a lot of discussion about that on Reddit and the 'Geek, for example, that you can check out.
Brilliant stuff. I've just been loaned a copy of panzerblitz. B17 Qots looks so good. I have GMT The hunters which I believe is inspired by that. Would love to play it. Big question: why can't these classics by AH be reissued? Kickstarter could help, no? Sorry if I've missed something.
The question is always a financial one. There are some people who would buy a brand new B-17 QOTS, for example, but are there enough? Everyone is so obsessed with the newest designs these days, to the point where a game that is only a few years old will get overlooked. I think GMT Games is doing the best they can with reprints for MBT and The Russian Campaign, etc. So I would look at supporting their efforts using their P500 system. If there is enough demand, the games will get remade and will survive, or even thrive!
@LegendaryTactics thank you. I played a limited copy of the hunters, that i printed myself from files on bgg, cutting out little tokens myself, then finally got the p500 (hooray!) from gmt once it reached its target. I absolutely love it ( terrific game imo). Back to b17. I've seen dogeared copies of it on ebay for varying amounts. Supplementary question: who "owns" the A.H properties now? Or will I find out in further videos?
My pal has just told me that I can have panzerblitz...so that's a boost. My first foray into hex game, but another pal played it in his youth, so i hopefully will get a game soon. I should add, I don’t play online. Physical copies only.
Is there a part 7?
Yes, it is on the way! I promise to have the whole series wrapped up by Christmas! 🎄
NO i want it now! lol
@@LegendaryTactics
I dont get the big deal about playing colonialism style games. 1. its just a game 2. If we dont REMEMBER history we are doomed to repeat it. 3. Great video series btw 4, we play ww2 games and hitler was a horrific monster! same with games with the soviets but in that case Stalin
I agree with all of your points (especially point 3 LOL). I think wargaming itself is a specific niche, and that niche is very interested in recreating history as it happened. More broadly, I think people prefer themes that are more palatable and safe, for better or for worse.