Ben Cobley: How & why identity politics dominates our culture
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ส.ค. 2024
- Peter Whittle's guest this week is Ben Cobley, author of The Tribe: The Liberal-Left and the System of Diversity.
He discusses with Peter who is behind identity politics, how it came to dominate our culture and how they maintain their influence over the narrative.
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As a SWAN - straight working class Anglican nationalist I'm one of the disposables according to the new left. 😇
"White male culture" he said, more like "swipe male culture" say I. One more swipe to the left and we're gone (that's how disposable we are)
Oh, so you're a Straight Working class Anglican Nationalist opposed to "Identity Politics"?
SWAN sounds so positive. Wouldn’t SCUM be a better acronym?
Straight, Cis, Unmelaninated, Male
It’s a work in progress.
@@seraeggobutterworth5247 ....... SWAN sounds more dignified and in control of the situation (please yourselves I'll just cruise around this lake)
@Chris Needham Dignified? In CONTROL? You must have missed the memo: Your lot is supposed to self-flagellate and lean the f*** out.
sheesh
As an old fashioned Lefty, I have always considered that the greatest victory of Thatcher, which was continued by Blair, was to atomise the working class into powerless individuals, who were stripped of political influence and rendered impotent in the face of oppressive labour laws and rapacious capital interests. Identity politics seems to seek to further entrench that isolation to ensure the working class is permanently divided. Positive discrimination ensures that each group is stripped of those equipped to organise and articulate the working class's predicament in the political arena, thus ensuring that the working class remain powerless and tractable, as they compete in a job market which has been fixed in total favour of employers.
The UK's biggest problem is the complacency of its citizens.
@@amraceway Well done on proving his point.
It’s not just the UK though. The same neo-Marxist structure is being rolled out across the western world.
It's fear of engaging with society. Why remove your head from the sand?
@@dickyr3295 but you could equally argue that there is a right wing populist movement taking over the world. From Brazil, to Europe, to Australia.
@@jordank1489 The thing about populist movements is that they are popular, as measured by actual votes. The thing about the progressives is they are not particularly popular, as measured by actual votes. Hillary fans might possibly have cottoned onto that reality but seemingly not.
As soon as people realise that identity politics is very useful for making its proponents feel good about their own moral superiority and worthy because of their victimhood and nothing else besides, then we can move on and take on the real problem of authoritarianism.
Give me individual liberty any day rather than the dead hand of authority telling me what is acceptable to say and what is an acceptable way to act. Populists run counter to the left because the left fear that the ordinary person, given freedom, will act in a way that will increase that worst of all possible things - inequality of outcome.
Another interesting video. It's staggering to me how hypocritical and ironically subconsciously racist people can be when they rely on identity politics as a base for their "arguments". I was always taught that skin colour is irrelevant when I was growing up, but now it seems to be the first consideration and a fixation for some people....
Which country do your parent's grandparents come from, let's say you return to your hereditary roots and do well, couple of million in the bank ect you get the country going to an acceptable level of comfort for all.................................... Then the guys with the white skins come along and disturb all your hard work and efforts, are you going to welcome the white skins or are you going to fight them? Id like to know how racist you would be, while you were fighting the white skins, it does not have to be white skins obviously it could be aliens for all I care...... Why would you fight the invader and become racist? Skin colour does not matter, white or black, what matters is the countries resources and the depletion of said resources... I am not afraid of the word racist as it means that I am a defender of my country and resources, nothing personal just business...
They rely on others to think for them. That's the problem here.
@@richardsinclair9449 Too Clarify surely you mean the 'white skinned fellows' swinging the red flags liberating your millions. Perhaps you meant the the Asian fellows, again with a red flags again liberating your millions. Homo Sapiens do crappy things to one another move on and make it better for tomorrow rather than attempting to push people back into their identity cages.
Another really interesting discussion. “So what you’re saying is” now a weekly must watch.
The more "diverse" a place becomes the more everything becomes about identity politics.
E.g a conversation about the NHS becomes not how many nurses there are but how many black nurses there are.
lee boss But never how many male nurses there are, or should be.
Simon Webb I jokingly refer to the BBC Folk awards as the MOWO's.
It's amazing how much things have changed in the past 15 years.
I think the best example of a history of change is to think back on 2003 when the first series of Little Britain was produced. Remember the men dressed as women claiming "I am a lady" as well as Gavin being "The only gay in the village".
Political correctness and victim groups really have reached a peak of insanity during that time.
Agree. Was thinking about this and it's really noticeable in shows that had been running between 2014 and today. Most of them change massively between seasons. Uncle is the one I'm currently watching. Between season 2 and 3 Twitter comes into existence and the change is seen in language (characters making twitter references and in jokes) and politics (patriarchy and gender references). These ideas just don't exist in the first two seasons.
Just wanna add that it's a great show and even in the third season it's worth watching.
@@peterc3262 Thanks for the tip I may have a look at Uncle.
Before googling it I thought it might be a remake of The Man From Uncle.
@@Slarti Really funny show, but rude if that matters to you. Don't put it on with the kids around! Haha.
@john hansberry did it? I know that the airport one that followed on from it had a blackface character.
Also remember papa lazarou from the league of gentlemen.
@john hansberry thanks, I just looked it up and remember ting tong in particular or was it tong ting 😉
John cleese... London is not English anymore. Me with a strong London accent, asked by an Indian man who lives in ilford in east London If I'm Irish! A man lives in east London and he has never heard a cockney before.
This is a very, very good channel. I'm learning a lot from it and thank you for representing the views of common sense!
Where I work all web pages etc are littered with pictures of black women, on posters on the wall the same, women and people with dark skin, when we take online training courses they are all illustrated with the same, a lot of women, the reality are totally different, almost 100% men and also mostly white men, not one single women, in 30 years I have had 2 female colleagues and known about 2 others, at least 3 of them have been kind of protected as females and do not count in my eyes, so, basically, I have worked with 1 women in ~30 years, but if you look at my companys website you get the impression it is females and blacks working there, pretty ridiculous
Katsu Zatoichi - Toronto professor Jordan Peterson discusses this very subject of corporate HR departments being infiltrated and permeated by leftist cultural Marxist ideology. I work at a bank and it’s the same there. They have diversity initiatives and actually have groups for each race and sexual orientation. It’s quite disgusting how this division is encouraged now.
@@parnpichate - we white heterosexual men are good enough to do the work but people can not give us the appreciation we deserve, when I have done another days work the black women and homosexuals of the world get the recognition while I am made invisible
Ben hit the nail on the head - Identitarian Politics is superficial, easy to mimic and calls for self-righteous indignation that easiest and emotionally rewarding of responses an individual might claim.
it also gives a weapon to powerless weaklings who would otherwise never amount to anything.
Most of my friends/family are blissfully unaware of this. I'm away from the Uk a lot so maybe I see the undermining of traditional values, especially free speech,more keenly. The pace of change has been astonishing over recent years. At this pace any pretence of democracy will be dead in a very short time.
PW nails it again with a great guest. Fascinating insights and a general broadening to the outskirts of clarity regarding The Culture War..
@@amraceway Hi Bill. Thank you for interacting. Can you expand a bit please? The term "Culture War" may be a tad overblown, but not entirely disingenuous given the general focus on contemporary cultural rifts. I'd be interested in a robust opposing view. Cheers.
@@amraceway Thanks Bill. That's an interesting response, I'll have another look at the video and think on. I'll probably then come back to you with an updated POV. Appreciate you taking the time to interact.
I just had a half hour walk to work in London - trust me, it's not really English anymore (apart from the grey and the rain LOL)
Good to see that Rotherham came up in the discussion of some of the really toxic consequences of identity politics. It set the marker that in identity politics the interests women as a 'protected group' (in this case young English girls being sexually predated and pimped out) are trumped by ethnicity (in that case the Pakistani predators/pimps and their Pakistani clientele). It'll be interesting to see how the current dispute at a Birmingham primary school plays out, in which the interests of two protected groups (muslims and LGBT activist) are in direct conflict.
Yes, quite. I have been thinking along those lines for years but it does now seem to be coming to a head. Basically which minority/protected group comes first and why? How can people tolerate one group which doesn't tolerate others if we are supposed to be fostering a more tolerant and equal society only to see more divisions springing up in the process?
Identitarianism is ultimately doomed to failure as an experiment unless of course the purpose is merely to cause as much unrest as possible before the best before date wears off the package. In the meantime still terrible for people who get caught in the crossfire, careers wrecked and reputations tarnished over a few misconstrued words or legit whistleblowing.
Surprised that the predominance of identity politics within the media and the BBC wasn't mentioned. In this way a smaller political group can appear far more important than it actually is in real life.
How can someone who is a labour supporter complain about identity politics, they were the ones who made it grow massively. He woke up against it, but it was way too late.
He's old enough to remember the pre-Corbyn pre-Blair era, when Labour's primary function was to stick up for worker's rights, rather than virtue signal 24/7.
Easy, he's still a child lol
Cuz that's exactly how kids act.
Idealism appeals to the young, as it presents a simple and emotionally appealing way to rationalise a hugely complex world. It’s natural that it’s many shortcomings become apparent to people as they age and gain more experience of life, and they become cynical about any ideals they may have previously held.
The Labour vote was a working class socially conservative one. This has been turned on its head to a middle class, metropolitan, intellectual, so-called progressive Identitarian one in a relatively short period of time. It coincided with the Tories embracing social and economic liberalism and anti-conservative manifestos. Labour voters as closet Marxists is a polemic designed to advance neo-liberalism in the mainstream. A Labour voter is typically a social conservative who doesn't believe there's evidence for trickle down economics, a mixed economy is better than a service one, and the nation state is still the best means of accommodating the needs of its citizens.
@@neonatalpenguin Sorry but Labour post WW2 have always been for the welfare state and entitlement. If I am entitled to live at the expense of someone else, then I am entitled to their speech and what they can and cannot say, and there is no justification as to why that natural extension should not exist, once the precedent is set. This is just a new form of entitlement, based on the original identity politics of 'rich' and 'poor'.
All so true and all by design, accountability. transparency and democracy can be found in the cemetery dead and long gone .
As usual, a very interesting discussion . . .
Depressing however in that it reminds us that we are unlikely to be any more than simple spectators upon the unstoppable implementation of our own doom . . .
Long ago our Nations funeral pyre was busilly heaped up, a match was applied (the race relations act of 1965) and the resulting flames have now all but exhausted their fuel . . .
This man's book is sadly no more than a cupped handful of water bravely thrown toward that conflagration, it will undoubtably produce a valiant little puff of steam as it encounters the heat but will inevitably vanish without trace . . .
R.I.P. our wonderful society, we loved you so and it was a privilege indeed to live within you . . How sad that future generations will not have that undoubted honour . . .
portlandstone3mw . Philby and Burgess had to become traitor/spies to do what is now accomplished by the citizens, themselves. Ex-Soviet disinfo/infiltration experts can hardly believe what they worked for being so successful.
@@m.burgesszbikowski8049 Yes, successful is probably the word, although a miserable, heart breaking and grotesque success it has to be said. . .
portlandstone3mw . Russia It's self has rejected it, now. The Churches flourish, and finally their citizens want to remain in their own Country! Not certain how we rid ourselves of the cursed ideology. ?
@@m.burgesszbikowski8049 I think the Russians have freed themselves from one devil only to fall into the hands of another
The scenery has been replaced, the furniture has been re-arranged but are they any better off ? . . . The "Oligarchs" have raped the wealth of the people, a Mafia now rules the nation with a puppet called Putin as it's front man . . .
Some even hanker after a return to the former Soviet totaliarian tyranny . . . I think they need another revolution . . . Perhaps we need revolution too . .
I appreciate how respectful Peter is to allow his guest to fully share their thoughts without interrupting. Whether I agree with every viewpoint is irrelevant~ these interviews are a pleasure to watch.
Identity politics is the cancer we face today
This channel is a very valuable and welcome addition to serious discussion on You Tube. A pleasure to hear ideas being developed and considered without constant interruption, contradiction and attack. Peter Whittle does an excellent job of directing his guests' thoughts in a way that is constructive, and not least of all polite. Much appreciation.
Well said. He listens then allows the the other person to speak. The British Bias Corporation have their minion to give their own agenda. The truth will out.
I enjoy these sensible, calm, reasoned discussions with such interesting guests and an excellent interviewer. Thank you. More please.
Another great podcast with an excellent guest Peter. My only complaint is these podcasts are too short. Keep up the good work guvnor
'Unconscious bias training' sounds like something the Nazis would have loved. We have to do something about this. After Brexit we must take the opportunity to make a social, political & cultural Reformation. Could be our last chance.
another fascinating and interesting discussion, thank you New Culture Forum
Often these liberal attitudes are merely Virtue Signalling. Scratch the surface and many members of the public don’t actually go along with all the diversity and other nonsense. Brilliant interview.
Brilliant topic choice, thank you Peter and all others. Great guest.
A great discussion, thanks for this.
Thanks for uploading this video. It is very informative and interesting.
Great interviews, brilliant listening.
Great conversation. I really like this guy's way of thinking and his integrity in the way he answers questions. I bought his book 'The Tribe'. It is a brilliantly written insightful book, the best book I have read on the subject. I urge you to get it.
I`m no genius, but even i saw this on the horizon twenty odd years ago. Why are `some people` surprised?
Very depressing stuff. As a Londoner l can safely say London is no longer
ethnically English. There are lots of people who have British passports and who live in
London but sorry, that is not the same.
Those of us not left leaning need to wake up. We are being far too tolerant of this IP crap. How do we do this peacefully.....not sure that it's possible. The problem is we are rather too nice and tolerant! Dilemma!
Those of us who are moderately left leaning need to wake up even more, imo. We need to acknowledge that our own desire to be nice and tolerant can go too far and that some people on “our side” have jumped the shark. We need to understand that the consequences will be extremely bad for everyone if we don’t open our frigging mouths in real life and call out the craziness on our own side, as JBP says. I think that’s the only way the problem can be peacefully addressed.
Join the Brexit Party. The IP lot hate us. Britian is fighting back. The people political revolution via the ballot box.....hit them where it hurts!
Ser Aeggo Butterworth Mass public offence forcing the police state to arrest thousands of regular people might be the wake up call that works, but ultimately hone your arguments and challenge every IP statement made. Never apologise for your opinion, and never accept anyone else’s claims without demonstrable evidence.
Once again, a great interview. I heard Cobley on Delingpole's podcast the other week and found him slightly lacking in energy, but he seems a bit more enthusiastic here!
Book purchased. Thanks Ben
I just found this channel and spent the whole of this day listening its so interesting. Soon i will run out of content😂
Great show. Will these ever be on Spotify? It would save me so much money
Great discussion. Scary too.
Double thumbs up to this one.
The tribe indeed.
The Charity sector is a racket and needs radical reform-any charity engaging in political discourse should lose their charitable status. e Should also remove gift aid-it has allowed this sector to become bloated and corporate-there's plenty more but those things would be a start
Is there a leftwing version of the New Culture Forum? I'd love to watch.
Mind you they’re eating their own of late , look at their race to bottom with their victim hood olympics , all in fighting .
the number you are looking for is 1984
Hi Peter. I have enjoyed your You Tube channel but wanted to listen on a pod-cast. I finally found it. I searched by your name. Nothing. New Culture Forum. Nothing. So what you are saying is. Bingo. Can you publish the podcast link on your video please? Many thanks
Always afraid to use the word conspiracy and playing their game. It obviously IS a kind of conspiracy.
An interview with Sarah Champion would be interesting to see
Ben Cobley's book is excellent and accurate.
Never thought I'd say it, about someone who's virtually (important modifier there) a Communist - but I'm starting to like Claire Fox a lot.
UKIP tried - valiantly tried - to be a counter-narrative, but couldn't get a word in edge-ways in the mainstream media, in the recent E.U. elections. (The Brexit party got loads of coverage, which I find very fishy + I sense a merge with the Conservative party.)
UKIP is our only hope. We must stand with them while they rebuild. With every new crazy cultural shift, more and more people will realise they were wrong to dismiss them. Boiling frog syndrome.
Great Interview. Pretty much sums up how I feel .. both overwhelmed (in quantity) and underwhelmed (by quality) of intersectional political identity victim hood and 'protected' status bollocks. It is the current cultural hegemony and freedom of speech and artistic expression now have to submit before it or be judged accordingly by screechy activists. And of course John Cleese isn't a racist ! But he may possibly be a very naughty boy !
To the list of those working in the civil service, charities, educational institutions and the arts, must be added HR departments in the professions and financial institutions. They are almost universally and exclusively liberal left and female.
People must keep calling out the utter bullshit of identity politics and say NO
My understanding of '''the tribe''' is very different to how Ben explained it.
You're a flatulent pain in the arse. I didn't mean to be so rude.
@@peterc3262 You're not the first person to point that out.... A terrible racist once said exactly the same thing just before demanding money.
@@mr.shankly At least he's famous. Better than being righteous or holy any day.
@@peterc3262 Absolutely.... I often wonder if he succeeded in catching something he might be ashamed of.
There's a conspicuous absence in Ben's list of "favoured groups" at 3:41. Can anyone guess who it is?
Well it ain’t the Four by Twos...
@@benjaminwaterhouse4879 For God's sake man, hush, or you'll have the Anti-Specific-Size-Of-Plank-Defamation League after you.
gurugeorge note the fine traditional imperial sizes, none of that nihilistic republican metric rubbish...
@@benjaminwaterhouse4879 One wouldn't mind so much, if it weren't for the, "imperial sizes for me, nihilistic republican metric rubbish for thee" schtick ;)
Minority issues have become a Trojan Horse for fascism
It's safe to say that things will get a lot worse before they get better. If things get better; they might just keep on getting worse.
The rise of transgender politics is fascinating. If you subtract those who are simply homosexual, physically hermaphrodite or use gender in sexual role play, gender fluidity is a niche inside a niche. Yet it leads on news stories constantly and everyone is supposed to have an informed opinion on it. It seems like an experiment in the extremes to which victimhood can be taken with a straight face (sic).
What Cobey calls the 'favoured and unfavoured' Tom Sowell calls the 'anointed and benighted'. Much better terms.
The illusion of permanence... I can grasp & accept culture changes with each generation, but what I can't stomach is a future where IP has total control and society is returned to a segregation/caste system. I don't want the post war to 2000s period to be the high watermark of our culture.
I have heard black people say openly that they prefer to socialise and live among there own group, and this is on mainstream radio shows...when will people finally admit that in-house racial and cultural bias is a real thing and is practiced by ALL groups, it’s natural and doesn’t mean you hate others
Good to hear that Claire Fox helped.
The tragedy of this is the remark on how thousands of vulnerable children were thrown under the bus just because their victim score was lower than the people abusing them. The obvious oppression that goes with diversity will be it's eventual undoing.
A leftist who can think. We do not have this in Sweden. I am impressed because every time a hear about England a am embarrested. A good leftist at last. Thank you.
We don't have too many of them here Mr. Rousu and those who do exist would never be seen on the B.B.C. for example. Watching mainstream media you wouldn't know that there was such a thing as "Left Leave" (in relation to leaving the E.U.), but there is. P.W. does a good job in finding these people and giving them a voice.
Generalized conspriacy?
Blame game?
The system can be unpicked very easily by making charities pay tax.
If you want to get really radical put the money for 'good causes' from the Lottery into the prize pot.
And if you want to start a genuine revolution defund the arts council.
Overnight the money-laundering would stop, and the whole scam will come tumbling down... with the benefit that business will make money.
Jeremy Corbyn should be bummed by an angry rhinoceros until he shuffles off his mortal coil.
There actually is an angry rhinoceros 'bumming' him. It's called the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
Since arts are so much about appearance, identity politics and judging people by how they look, what category they fit and being leftist is right up that alley. People should be looking more at substance and what is being said and not so much the way things look on the surface.
Lord of the Flies...Anyone ??
Many people from all over the world must look upon our obsession with identity politics and the new orthodoxy of victimhood and white bias with incredulity. We are perceived as mad, and, as we are allowing these self-harming theories to take hold and grow, threatening the very bedrock and structures of our relatively successful liberal society, we are mad indeed.
Institutions interested in promoting truth, democracy and beauty? Sounds like the Church to me.
Andy Kench - Im not religious, but I have a deep appreciation for Judeo-Christian values and belief that have molded the west.
cyborg1320 - secular leftist activism has most certainly become their religion. Looking at them as zealots helps to make sense of their behavior and actions.
Interesting that so many of the prominent speakers on the sensible right are gay - and thank God for them.
2021: Sarah Champion is still there. She is still working for her constituents, who need her.
You are british that is it if you wont to be aney thing ells go back to wher your roots are from and live a happy life with no more complaints. And go back into you cupboards
Rome was destroyed in the same way. Christians went from being an inflexible and slightly persecuted minority to being an aggressive majority who intentionally and systematically destroyed the ancient culture of Rome; its buildings, its philosophy, its art, its government, which of course was only open to fellow Christians, and ultimately they ended up running a closed shop superstition which was dominated by aggressive incomers who ran the collapsed mess to suit themselves.
Eastern Europe has embraced Christianity and we have embraced Marxism - that's what's happened..
You missed out Jews.
I don't think indoctrinate is a strong word in this context, it is indoctrination pure and simple.
Not sure Ben Cobley knows that much about Identity politics, it's a lot of talking points with no real substance behind his statements. Maybe his book is better and he's not much of talker.
Wait till he hears that Jesus was BLACK ...
not enough non white faces on this show
Diversity is progress what are you scared of? "Unbiased training" in Corporations have to exist because white people communicate and behave differently with Black people. White prejudice distorts rational thinking so you judge, mistrust and don't give blacks the same advantages and chances of whites. You hold on to racist racial stereo types because you feel threatened, especially when we are highly qualified and experts in our field. This is a white problem and you bemoan and witheringly complain. Black British people have no issue with white society it's "White entitlement " and bigotry that got you into this mess
I would certainly hope you have no problem with white society. Being given the right to live in the UK for a black person is like being given a winning lottery ticket. Gratitude would be the appropriate response...........or you could go and live in a black country. No? I bet that prospect concentrates the mind.