I really enjoy having a kind of introduction to greek literature. I’ve already read The odyssey, but other pieces of Greek literature are semi-obscure. I know them but not all of them or what they’re called. After a disastrous reading of Dante translated by Longfellow I learned translations were important
Classic American. My version of the Odyssey, Iliad and Aeneid are translated by Robert Fitzgerald. All of my Greek plays are translated by David Greene and Richmond Lattimore (Univ of Chicago Press). Ovid Metamorphoses translated by Rolfe Humphries.
It would be so interesting to read American translations of Greek texts. It's fun to compare translations and reading them side by side and see how widely they differ.
Interesting, because as an American 3rd grader: I read Fitzgerald for my Odyssey and Fragles for my Iliad. Reflecting as an adult, I respect Fitzgerald, maybe only because of his association with Flannery O'Conner and the whole mid-centry Southern Gothic/Modernist school. It's a tangential association, but a powerful one, poetry-wise.
Thank you SO much, Cinzia! :D I am studing comparative literature at an university in Germany where the classics get very little attention outside of philosophy (generally speaking). So, this video is a perfect starting point for me to get into ancient literature too. Also I really appreciate you stressing, that ancient philosophy is a lot less complex than academic gate-keeping can make them seem. :)
Utterly brilliant! Diving into Homer, I find Fitzgerald to be the easiest and most fun read and Rouse for a more clever use of English. Of course, in university, learning Ancient Greek, I was amazed at what had to be done to make Homer's works fit English.
Of course!! you have your own life, chummie! I don't expect you to be there every week or watch every video - you don't ever have to apologise! I hope you had a lovely evening (:
I agree with your take on Stephen Fry’s Mythos! His reading is simply divine but overcomplicating things for the fun of it drives me crazy. Thank you for these amazing recommendations, I’ll pick some of them up!
This was very interesting, thank you! I think you'd be a great lecturer, I love how passionate you are and how you light up when talking about your favourite subjects :)
Brilliant! I'm so glad we studied Greek and Roman myths and legends at school, it has taken away some of the worries that these texts are difficult to read. I'm from the Balkans and these stories are quite familiar to me, maybe not in such depth but still ☺️🌷
I have enjoyed every broadcast you have recorded. Ever thought of listing all of the books you have on your bookshelves or categorizing them into general themes? I would love to go over that list. I still have a ton I used for reference materials when I worked on my doctorate. Some day I hope to finish reading them.
When I read the "Argonautica" by Apollonius Rhodius, I was surprised by the depiction of Medea. It says that Aphrodite (If I recall) "charmed" Medea to fall in love with Jason. After that, she is described as an automaton, possessed by the goddess of love! She does lots of bad, even murderous, things to support Jason and they are all described as, "The goddess made her do it!" No personal responsibility at all. I had never seen that before in literature and found it interesting.
A few years ago I became interested in reading the Iliad, never having read it before. I searched Amazon for a Kindle edition. I came across "The War That Killed Achilles" by Caroline Alexander, and I found the title to be so intriguing that I bought it and gave it a try. My own experience, that of an old guy who has read extensively but never this classic, is that it is an excellent read. I highly recommend it.
What about "The Landmark Thucydides" aka "The Peloponneian War" Superb in text footnotes, excellent maps that keep the reader up to speed on where all various battles are taking place. The Landmark edition of Zenophone is equally ambitious.
To those who actually want to lean Greek language: Athenaze whas reccomended to me, as well as the Loeb library. I personaly use L.S Coronalis intro to Greek (it is in dutch though) There are several volumes for beginner to intermediate learners. and also Ben Schomakers Aristotles translation with original. For Anglophones there is Luke Rainiery at Polymathy. he also does a proper cource at Ancient Language dot com. (If you just have $800 laying around) Plus an unnoficial audio book for Athenaze. For dictionaries: the oxford pocket dictionary is decent. It's for intermediate Greek learners though. Haven't had any real experience with others.
I worked at a college and got free credits I could use for classes. One of the literature classes I took had me reading Greek plays. I decided I liked them. At the time, I earned little money & did not have TV, but I could afford paperback books. I read lots of Greek tragedies. Anthologies is a good choice for Greek plays. I was also into science fiction and read pounds of books on that. I got a bunch of used books too (maybe the college library was discarding some.) Again, I picked some Greek tragedies. I was in college when I read the Odyssey the first time. I later read the Iliad on my own. I was recently re-reading parts of the Iliad and was discouraged how many translators insist on using affectatiously high language and/or insist on translating all the god & goddess name to their Roman equivalents. I once got an early audio version of the "Argonautica" by Apollonius Rhodius, on cassette tapes. I planned to listen to them while driving. (I commuted a long distance.) I found I could not drive and listen to epic poetry at the same time. I recently got an audio version of the "Iliad" on Chirp (a source of audio books.) I have a hard time concentrating on that. Maybe its's the version. It supposedly was originally an epic poem recited for entertainment. I find I just can't focus on it. I will get a paper back or Kindle book version. I was reading a few versions online and was OK, depending on the version.
I hope you post your patreon rant on Higgins to TH-cam or make a dedicated video; there's very little content about that book since it came out so recently
Cinzia!! I am a long subscriber of yours and your video always gives me new perspectives. I also remember your apartment tour like 7 years ago which became the inspiration for my room at that time ^^ If you could, maybe one day can I have an updated apartment tour? Even thought you may think it hasn't changed a lot, I would love to see how you settle and grow in that place:)
Hello lovely! How kind of you to leave a comment, I appreciate it so much! Thank you for being around for so long! I actually took down my apartment tour for privacy sake (someone found out where I lived), so I’m afraid I won’t be repeating that kind of content again. But I appreciate in inspired you!
I started reading the Richmond Lattimore translation of The Iliad, but didn't get very far. I find it difficult to make sense out of poetry. I found the Literature and History podcast to be a great introduction to ancient literature.
This has made me want to finally pick up the Illyad. I'm not sure if you're aware of the youtuber Lindybeige? I found his video on the Illyad very intriguing, and along with this I'm much more at ease with giving it a go.
Great channel and anyone who loves book is existentially awesome! I have done a few years of koine and understand a general grammar overview, where would I start do you think? (actually in Greek, not translations). I am a good self learner (and know how to study languages effectively). I have a basic foundation and want to go from there (I love myths, history etc. but not poetry). Thankyou!!
BTW! I am trying to save money! Ah well, it is Books! Whats that quote from Socrates, I think, "When I have money, I buy books. If there's any left I buy food and clothing."
I just wanna be honest I love Greek history well maybe through the lens of Percy Jackson but tat made me think I wonder wat if I went from English styled books to Greek styled books where would I go then I found cleopatra dear god I was in love with the book but never read it the size was Ike game of thrones books ohh child no think but for a reader like me whom like to read books abt women being at the very top of history plz advice ♥️🤭☕🔥
Kind of had a similar question regarding Wilson and Alexander. I just finished (well, a few weeks ago) Emily Wilson's translation of The Odyssey, and it is absolutely revelatory, and many others seem to agree. I also really liked Caroline Alexander's translation of The Iliad - it's actually still sitting on my (very messy) desk - but it honestly feels like I'm in the minority on this one. Admittedly, I did like Wilson's translation more, but this could also just be because I like The Odyssey more. What did you think of Alexander's translation? Do the majority of classicists still prefer Fagles or Lattimore? Why? I read Fagles' translation in college, and honestly, found it to be a bit of a snooze fest. Consequently, I didn't pick The Iliad back up for over a decade after that (despite having literally gone to war in the time between - could have been an edifying read prior to or during that deployment). I found Alexander's translation to be leaner, faster (barring of course, the catalogue of ships, but there's really no way around that, I suppose) and more emotive. Maybe I'm just older and more patient 🤷🏽♂️ idk - very interested to hear what the academic reception of Alexander's work was/is.
Damn I knew I started early but not that early. I was 11 when I read Illiad and 12 for the Odyssey. My school librarian gave me Oedipus Rex when I was 13, she was worried I might get freaked out at certain parts. Instead of doing P.E I got to choose another class, so without any trepidation I said Classics/Latin. 🤟
I think that Christopher Shield's "Aristotle" (2nd edition) is much better for thepurpose of serving a first exposition to Aristotle than the VSI by Jonathan Barnes. Also, I absolutely disagree that "the classics are actually not that hard" when it comes to Plato and Aristotle, or even worse, the Presocratics.
I've been trying to read Martin Hammond's prose translation of the Iliad and it's so dense and such a slog. I'm determined not to DNF but I know I definitely want to read a better translation afterwards
The chronological order of Greek Mythology is something that I'm always frustrated with. So many people write on certain myths like they happened in a bubble, but they didn't. Theseus kidnapped Helen when she was a child, then did his thing with Minos. Laertes, father of Odysseus, was on the Argo alongside Heracles, who freed Prometheus. These events didn't happen hundreds of years apart, they all were supposed to have happened within two or three lifetimes, roughly 100 or so years.
I have a theory that the reason Stephen Fry is such a successful narrator, is because he soothes people off to the land of Nodd with his soft tones.....
I commented on one of your recent Instagram posts asking about an accessible recommendation for The Odyssey - so I really appreciate this video! (I tried to reply to your comment on insta but it just wouldn't let me for some reason) Thank you Cinzia 😊
ive made a bit of a roman man cave out of my garage with various swords pictures helmet and armor , weapons , plenty of literature im looking to get the Iliad and the Odyssey but before i do i was hoping to find a decent bust for my Corinthian column , anyways , love your videos love your enthusiasm , thanks again @@CinziaDuBois
I am interested in philosophy and have read Plato's republic. Where would you recommend I could go next? I am considering his symposium but I am not sure as there is so much out there! Loved this video, making these wonderful works more accesible to us!
@@CinziaDuBois You mentioned it in the starting of this video. I may be wrong though ( so sorry in advance 🙂). BTW this video was super helpful. I just wanted to know is there some pre reading needed for reading Iliad ( I have Robert fagles version). I have read the introduction from the book, a very short introduction of Trojan war and Homer, watched the movie Troy, read Plato's five dialogues and Aristotle, but some people recommend reading entire Stephen fry's trilogy. I am confused. Still thanks for making such helpful videos.
wow… even I don’t know what video I was talking about in this video haha. I even looked at all my old content and I have zero idea what I was referring to as I can’t find any 😂 I’m reply sorry about the confusion.
Lol this joke has prob been made before but I know Greek and Latin so I just read the story in the original. It's funny how I always agree with my translation best!
I'm a bit intense in everything I do so I've been learning ancient Greek to do away with translations (I'm absolutely serious). I'm already very comfortable with Latin so I figured why not. I'm reading the Anabasis as I go along (mostly because it's impeccably "standard" Attic making it great for learning) and even with my snail's pace, there's really no way any translation can come close. "Traduttore, tradittore", say the Italians, and I share the sentiment, especially with ancient texts, the structure provided by the original language in which the text was produced is part of the text itself, and any translation is at best a derivative work. PS: no wonder many followed Cyrus the Younger, the man was an ancient gigachad
I have enjoyed a lot of your videos, but I'm wondering how are you doing a PhD in Classics without knowledge of ancient Greek? What school are you going to?
Artemis be feeling herself while you were recording 😂 I feel stupid asking this but greek plays aren't my thing (yet) but would they (the ones about the Gods anyways) be considered mythology like the Iliad and the Odyssey poems? Have you read Gods and Heros of Ancient Greece by Gustav Schwab? I like it so far, I'm not that far in it but the main reason why I bought it is because it mentions myths or characters that aren't talked about as much like the ages of man, Tantalus, and Pelops. I bought Classical Mythology by H.A. Guerber a couple years ago and in my unprofessional professional opinion it sucks. It says "Greek and Roman" mythology but like 98- 99% of the names were the Roman equivalent names of the Gods, all the photos were of Roman statues (which isn't too bad), some of the myths had the Greek names which doesn't make sense because the majority of them had Roman names, like why would you do that? For example, she used Amphitrites name but not Salacia which is her Roman. Like she uses quotes from Homer and such which he used the Greek names but yet she used translated versions that used the Roman, like what? If I could rate this book 0 out of 5 I would.
There is a problem with Greek comedy, like "Lysistrata." While very famous, humor is very "local" in time and place. It lampoons ancient people in Greek civic life and we have no reference for most of them. Suppose we found a very funny comedy,, lampooning members of American congress & English parliament from about 1875. Unless you are a serious historian, you will have no reference for most of the jokes.
nice person trying to encourage people to read the greeks: "greek philosophy is not that difficult. Just read them. people who say that philosophy is difficult might just be overacting or be a bit pretentious." greek philosophy: "Among things that exist, some are said-of a subject but not in any subject. For example, man is said-of a subject, the individual man, but is not in any subject. Some are in a subject but not said of any subject. By subject I mean what is in something, which, not belonging to it as a part does, cannot exist seperately from what it is in. For example, an individual bit of grammatical knowledge is in a subject, the soul, but is not said-of any any subject [...]" "Well, but Plato's republic is very easy to read." Plato's republic: "What do you suppose would be his answer if we wer to tell him that he had seen nothing but trash heretofore, but that now, because he is somewhat closer to reality and has turned towards more real things he sees more correctly? and if we were to point to each of these passing objects and make him answer the question "What is it?", don't you suppose he would be puzzled and count the things he had been seeing heretofore more true than the ones pointed out to him now?" (I know this passage might seem harmless to anyone who does not trip over the notion of degrees of truth, which is, however, quite central to the metaphysics, th epistemology, the category theory and the logic presented in the Republic) I know from first hand experience that philosophy seems easy once one is willing to ignore everything which one does not understand. If you do this, you read on, don't puzzle about what you don't understand and miss the entire point. The difficulty lies not in confirming to oneself well-known platitudes like "Plato wants philosophers to be kings. lol such a donkey". It lies in understanding the details? What does he mean by his theory of the degrees of truth and reality? How does he argue for it? How well does it cohere with other theories also put forth by Plato? Stuff like this you know. Philosophers like Gregory Vlastos, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Thomas Aquinas, Harry Frankfurt, Bertrand Russell, Christopher Shields, Martin Heidegger, ... you name them, they are all still very much puzzled and intrigued by these dialogues and treatises, even thousands of years after they have been written! btw. the many very accomplished and respected "ancient scholars" are not well known outside their bubble, but that is because A) their work is very specialiced and B) ancient philosophy is so super hard. Philosophy in itself is hard, but with the ancients you can add an entire level of exegetical problems, which you would not get with more contemporary writers. Problems like that the philosophies to which they are referring are lost, linguistic problems, problems of ordering the text passages, problems with possible subsequent editing etc, and a total lack of modern academic conventions, like "Define your concepts first, lay out the structure of your argument etc." Modern analytic philosophy is so beautiful, especially because it is so scholastic.
I’m really into what you promote, but you speak too fast for an international public, allthough you are vere charming british, please consider us “ slow ones” ❤️🤗 Maybe you’re just trying to reach a british audience, then my apoligies !
I have ADD. I’m not aiming for any audience - it’s just how I am I’m afraid. There’s little I can do about it, but you can slow down my videos using the speed monitoring. 🙂
Thank you, I kind of knew that, but it’s so much easier when the mothership it self speak slow, instead of all the roundabouts having to adjust speed of speech every time there is a message. 🖖
@@kille-4B I wish it were easier for the mothership to speak slower - but it's not when that mothership has ADD. I listen to all media, including TH-cam and films at 2x speed because everyone talks too slowly for me!
![Where to start with Ancient Greek literature according to an Ancient Historian [cc]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0eF1_lppHug/mqdefault.jpg)
![Where to start with Ancient Greek literature according to an Ancient Historian [cc]](/img/tr.png)
I really enjoy having a kind of introduction to greek literature. I’ve already read The odyssey, but other pieces of Greek literature are semi-obscure. I know them but not all of them or what they’re called. After a disastrous reading of Dante translated by Longfellow I learned translations were important
Classic American. My version of the Odyssey, Iliad and Aeneid are translated by Robert Fitzgerald. All of my Greek plays are translated by David Greene and Richmond Lattimore (Univ of Chicago Press). Ovid Metamorphoses translated by Rolfe Humphries.
It would be so interesting to read American translations of Greek texts. It's fun to compare translations and reading them side by side and see how widely they differ.
@@CinziaDuBois In my BA we had two courses heavily relying on comparing translations, it was very interesting.
Interesting, because as an American 3rd grader: I read Fitzgerald for my Odyssey and Fragles for my Iliad. Reflecting as an adult, I respect Fitzgerald, maybe only because of his association with Flannery O'Conner and the whole mid-centry Southern Gothic/Modernist school. It's a tangential association, but a powerful one, poetry-wise.
Thank you for this video! My list of books to buy is growing significantly after watching this.
Thank you SO much, Cinzia! :D
I am studing comparative literature at an university in Germany where the classics get very little attention outside of philosophy (generally speaking). So, this video is a perfect starting point for me to get into ancient literature too.
Also I really appreciate you stressing, that ancient philosophy is a lot less complex than academic gate-keeping can make them seem. :)
You're so welcome!
Utterly brilliant! Diving into Homer, I find Fitzgerald to be the easiest and most fun read and Rouse for a more clever use of English. Of course, in university, learning Ancient Greek, I was amazed at what had to be done to make Homer's works fit English.
A fabulous start to the day, thank you Cinzia
Thanks, I actually never thought of exploring classical literature, but you convinced me to at least dip my toe into it!
I'm loving seeing you draw on your expertise. Very helpful for you to point out that different people emphasize different parts of the myths.
Thank you so much for this ancient Greek literature for beginners video!! 🙆♀️
Very sorry I missed your livestream today, I wish they could be archived somewhere, but it's probably okay to miss things sometimes 🙃
Of course!! you have your own life, chummie! I don't expect you to be there every week or watch every video - you don't ever have to apologise! I hope you had a lovely evening (:
I meant more sorry for myself, since I love when you read to us! But I still had a good day too! ☺
I've been searching for a video like this FOR SO LONG 😭😭 THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS!!!!
The Anabasis of Xenophon, and the movie based on it ‘The Warriors’ ‘77 - and the SF re-write Andre Norton’s ‘Star Guard’
Thanks for this video - been wanting to get more understanding of Greek myths so have just ordered the Higgins book
I’m listening to Emily Wilson’s translation of the Odyssey and I love it.
Ah I just found your channel and I am obsessed! I wrote down all the books you listed and I am excited to learn more
I agree with your take on Stephen Fry’s Mythos! His reading is simply divine but overcomplicating things for the fun of it drives me crazy. Thank you for these amazing recommendations, I’ll pick some of them up!
This was very interesting, thank you! I think you'd be a great lecturer, I love how passionate you are and how you light up when talking about your favourite subjects :)
You don't want to know who much I needed this video, thank you :)
You're so welcome!
Thanks, I pick out two and add them to my wish list
Brilliant! I'm so glad we studied Greek and Roman myths and legends at school, it has taken away some of the worries that these texts are difficult to read. I'm from the Balkans and these stories are quite familiar to me, maybe not in such depth but still ☺️🌷
This was *brilliant* thank you Cinzia (coming from a person whose never read an ancient classic) but will be toe dipping this year!!💚👍😊
Glad you enjoyed it!
I have enjoyed every broadcast you have recorded. Ever thought of listing all of the books you have on your bookshelves or categorizing them into general themes? I would love to go over that list. I still have a ton I used for reference materials when I worked on my doctorate. Some day I hope to finish reading them.
When I read the "Argonautica" by Apollonius Rhodius, I was surprised by the depiction of Medea. It says that Aphrodite (If I recall) "charmed" Medea to fall in love with Jason. After that, she is described as an automaton, possessed by the goddess of love! She does lots of bad, even murderous, things to support Jason and they are all described as, "The goddess made her do it!" No personal responsibility at all. I had never seen that before in literature and found it interesting.
A few years ago I became interested in reading the Iliad, never having read it before. I searched Amazon for a Kindle edition. I came across "The War That Killed Achilles" by Caroline Alexander, and I found the title to be so intriguing that I bought it and gave it a try. My own experience, that of an old guy who has read extensively but never this classic, is that it is an excellent read. I highly recommend it.
Thank you for making this video Cinzia! Bookmarking this for future reference for sure :D
What about "The Landmark Thucydides" aka "The Peloponneian War" Superb in text footnotes, excellent maps that keep the reader up to speed on where all various battles are taking place.
The Landmark edition of Zenophone is equally ambitious.
This is really fantastic. Thanks.
To those who actually want to lean Greek language:
Athenaze whas reccomended to me, as well as the Loeb library.
I personaly use L.S Coronalis intro to Greek (it is in dutch though)
There are several volumes for beginner to intermediate learners.
and also Ben Schomakers Aristotles translation with original.
For Anglophones there is Luke Rainiery at Polymathy.
he also does a proper cource at Ancient Language dot com. (If you just have $800 laying around)
Plus an unnoficial audio book for Athenaze.
For dictionaries: the oxford pocket dictionary is decent.
It's for intermediate Greek learners though.
Haven't had any real experience with others.
This helped alot, i recently picked up Emily Wilsons translation of the Odyssey
Thanks so much!!!
Your speaking voice is excellent. Next time I'm in Scotland, drinks are on me. If for no reason then to hear you haver about subjects we both enjoy.
Fantastic recommendations, thank you ✅
I worked at a college and got free credits I could use for classes. One of the literature classes I took had me reading Greek plays. I decided I liked them. At the time, I earned little money & did not have TV, but I could afford paperback books. I read lots of Greek tragedies. Anthologies is a good choice for Greek plays. I was also into science fiction and read pounds of books on that. I got a bunch of used books too (maybe the college library was discarding some.) Again, I picked some Greek tragedies. I was in college when I read the Odyssey the first time. I later read the Iliad on my own. I was recently re-reading parts of the Iliad and was discouraged how many translators insist on using affectatiously high language and/or insist on translating all the god & goddess name to their Roman equivalents.
I once got an early audio version of the "Argonautica" by Apollonius Rhodius, on cassette tapes. I planned to listen to them while driving. (I commuted a long distance.) I found I could not drive and listen to epic poetry at the same time. I recently got an audio version of the "Iliad" on Chirp (a source of audio books.) I have a hard time concentrating on that. Maybe its's the version. It supposedly was originally an epic poem recited for entertainment. I find I just can't focus on it. I will get a paper back or Kindle book version. I was reading a few versions online and was OK, depending on the version.
I hope you post your patreon rant on Higgins to TH-cam or make a dedicated video; there's very little content about that book since it came out so recently
Cinzia!! I am a long subscriber of yours and your video always gives me new perspectives. I also remember your apartment tour like 7 years ago which became the inspiration for my room at that time ^^ If you could, maybe one day can I have an updated apartment tour? Even thought you may think it hasn't changed a lot, I would love to see how you settle and grow in that place:)
Hello lovely! How kind of you to leave a comment, I appreciate it so much! Thank you for being around for so long! I actually took down my apartment tour for privacy sake (someone found out where I lived), so I’m afraid I won’t be repeating that kind of content again. But I appreciate in inspired you!
@@CinziaDuBois Oh!! I see 😥 That's a bummer but I 100% understand you. Please keep making videos on books, your thoughts or anything 🙏😊
I started reading the Richmond Lattimore translation of The Iliad, but didn't get very far. I find it difficult to make sense out of poetry. I found the Literature and History podcast to be a great introduction to ancient literature.
My new favourite quote: "There's an anthology for that!"
This has made me want to finally pick up the Illyad. I'm not sure if you're aware of the youtuber Lindybeige? I found his video on the Illyad very intriguing, and along with this I'm much more at ease with giving it a go.
Great channel and anyone who loves book is existentially awesome! I have done a few years of koine and understand a general grammar overview, where would I start do you think? (actually in Greek, not translations). I am a good self learner (and know how to study languages effectively). I have a basic foundation and want to go from there (I love myths, history etc. but not poetry). Thankyou!!
BTW! I am trying to save money! Ah well, it is Books! Whats that quote from Socrates, I think, "When I have money, I buy books. If there's any left I buy food and clothing."
I just wanna be honest I love Greek history well maybe through the lens of Percy Jackson but tat made me think I wonder wat if I went from English styled books to Greek styled books where would I go then I found cleopatra dear god I was in love with the book but never read it the size was Ike game of thrones books ohh child no think but for a reader like me whom like to read books abt women being at the very top of history plz advice ♥️🤭☕🔥
Kind of had a similar question regarding Wilson and Alexander. I just finished (well, a few weeks ago) Emily Wilson's translation of The Odyssey, and it is absolutely revelatory, and many others seem to agree. I also really liked Caroline Alexander's translation of The Iliad - it's actually still sitting on my (very messy) desk - but it honestly feels like I'm in the minority on this one. Admittedly, I did like Wilson's translation more, but this could also just be because I like The Odyssey more. What did you think of Alexander's translation? Do the majority of classicists still prefer Fagles or Lattimore? Why? I read Fagles' translation in college, and honestly, found it to be a bit of a snooze fest. Consequently, I didn't pick The Iliad back up for over a decade after that (despite having literally gone to war in the time between - could have been an edifying read prior to or during that deployment). I found Alexander's translation to be leaner, faster (barring of course, the catalogue of ships, but there's really no way around that, I suppose) and more emotive. Maybe I'm just older and more patient 🤷🏽♂️ idk - very interested to hear what the academic reception of Alexander's work was/is.
Thank you, this is so helpful!
Damn I knew I started early but not that early. I was 11 when I read Illiad and 12 for the Odyssey. My school librarian gave me Oedipus Rex when I was 13, she was worried I might get freaked out at certain parts. Instead of doing P.E I got to choose another class, so without any trepidation I said Classics/Latin. 🤟
Probably a long shot, but do you know where I would have to look to find Greek Horror stories?
I think that Christopher Shield's "Aristotle" (2nd edition) is much better for thepurpose of serving a first exposition to Aristotle than the VSI by Jonathan Barnes. Also, I absolutely disagree that "the classics are actually not that hard" when it comes to Plato and Aristotle, or even worse, the Presocratics.
I've been trying to read Martin Hammond's prose translation of the Iliad and it's so dense and such a slog. I'm determined not to DNF but I know I definitely want to read a better translation afterwards
The chronological order of Greek Mythology is something that I'm always frustrated with. So many people write on certain myths like they happened in a bubble, but they didn't. Theseus kidnapped Helen when she was a child, then did his thing with Minos. Laertes, father of Odysseus, was on the Argo alongside Heracles, who freed Prometheus. These events didn't happen hundreds of years apart, they all were supposed to have happened within two or three lifetimes, roughly 100 or so years.
I have a theory that the reason Stephen Fry is such a successful narrator, is because he soothes people off to the land of Nodd with his soft tones.....
I commented on one of your recent Instagram posts asking about an accessible recommendation for The Odyssey - so I really appreciate this video! (I tried to reply to your comment on insta but it just wouldn't let me for some reason) Thank you Cinzia 😊
where do you get the greco roman busts behind you in the library ? very nice touch !
Antique shops 🙂
ive made a bit of a roman man cave out of my garage with various swords pictures helmet and armor , weapons , plenty of literature im looking to get the Iliad and the Odyssey but before i do i was hoping to find a decent bust for my Corinthian column , anyways , love your videos love your enthusiasm , thanks again @@CinziaDuBois
Hey, I can't seem to find your introduction to classical literature. Could you provide a link?
Do you have an annotation video on how to annotate ? Thank you !
Dictionnaire de la mythologie grecque et romaine from pierre grimal help me a lot, i think you can find it in english
I am interested in philosophy and have read Plato's republic. Where would you recommend I could go next? I am considering his symposium but I am not sure as there is so much out there!
Loved this video, making these wonderful works more accesible to us!
I have a whole video on this on my channel: philosophy books for beginners 😊
@@CinziaDuBois oh yes of course thanks!
@@CinziaDuBois I can't seem to find that video, am I blind?
I love Greek history and mythology. I bought The Iliad and could not read it, It was just too hard to follow...and I know these stories well!
Ahhh, they used old language. I just found it impossible with all of that.
@@noizeemama3697 perhaps you could try a different translation?
does anyone have any recommendations on Roman literature or history?
I'll be making a video on this (:
Every library needs a Pomeranian guard dog.
Why did you removed your older video about classical literature?
I'm afraid you may be mixing me up with someone else. I didn't have another video on classical literature, this was the only one.
@@CinziaDuBois You mentioned it in the starting of this video. I may
be wrong though ( so sorry in advance 🙂). BTW this video was super helpful. I just wanted to know is there some pre reading needed for reading Iliad ( I have Robert fagles version). I have read the introduction from the book, a very short introduction of Trojan war and Homer, watched the movie Troy, read Plato's five dialogues and Aristotle, but some people recommend reading entire Stephen fry's trilogy. I am confused.
Still thanks for making such helpful videos.
wow… even I don’t know what video I was talking about in this video haha. I even looked at all my old content and I have zero idea what I was referring to as I can’t find any 😂 I’m reply sorry about the confusion.
"Aristotle: A Very Short Introduction" is bold... very bold.
(It's good, tho. Plato too.)
Lol this joke has prob been made before but I know Greek and Latin so I just read the story in the original. It's funny how I always agree with my translation best!
Commenting for the algorithm
right on, thank you. i enjoyed this. :P
I'm a bit intense in everything I do so I've been learning ancient Greek to do away with translations (I'm absolutely serious). I'm already very comfortable with Latin so I figured why not. I'm reading the Anabasis as I go along (mostly because it's impeccably "standard" Attic making it great for learning) and even with my snail's pace, there's really no way any translation can come close. "Traduttore, tradittore", say the Italians, and I share the sentiment, especially with ancient texts, the structure provided by the original language in which the text was produced is part of the text itself, and any translation is at best a derivative work. PS: no wonder many followed Cyrus the Younger, the man was an ancient gigachad
Great video.
Glad you enjoyed it
Is Greek Plays Book written in a crystal clear language ? Or super complicated ??
Very clear - there’s nothing complicated about the language 🙂
I have enjoyed a lot of your videos, but I'm wondering how are you doing a PhD in Classics without knowledge of ancient Greek? What school are you going to?
Being greek myself and checking what do foreigners read from Greece.
❤
Thank You For The beautiful Insights.
I Hope one day you will share Books on love,healthy loving relationship,marriage..
Akkadian prose
Loeb. The original. Just do it.
Artemis be feeling herself while you were recording 😂 I feel stupid asking this but greek plays aren't my thing (yet) but would they (the ones about the Gods anyways) be considered mythology like the Iliad and the Odyssey poems? Have you read Gods and Heros of Ancient Greece by Gustav Schwab? I like it so far, I'm not that far in it but the main reason why I bought it is because it mentions myths or characters that aren't talked about as much like the ages of man, Tantalus, and Pelops. I bought Classical Mythology by H.A. Guerber a couple years ago and in my unprofessional professional opinion it sucks. It says "Greek and Roman" mythology but like 98- 99% of the names were the Roman equivalent names of the Gods, all the photos were of Roman statues (which isn't too bad), some of the myths had the Greek names which doesn't make sense because the majority of them had Roman names, like why would you do that? For example, she used Amphitrites name but not Salacia which is her Roman. Like she uses quotes from Homer and such which he used the Greek names but yet she used translated versions that used the Roman, like what? If I could rate this book 0 out of 5 I would.
I want to read greek literature in greek 🗿
Oh my gosh, Artemis is obviously demanding burnt offerings from you Cinzia. She must be saddened by the lack of devotion from modern society ;)
There is a problem with Greek comedy, like "Lysistrata." While very famous, humor is very "local" in time and place. It lampoons ancient people in Greek civic life and we have no reference for most of them. Suppose we found a very funny comedy,, lampooning members of American congress & English parliament from about 1875. Unless you are a serious historian, you will have no reference for most of the jokes.
nice person trying to encourage people to read the greeks: "greek philosophy is not that difficult. Just read them. people who say that philosophy is difficult might just be overacting or be a bit pretentious."
greek philosophy: "Among things that exist, some are said-of a subject but not in any subject. For example, man is said-of a subject, the individual man, but is not in any subject. Some are in a subject but not said of any subject. By subject I mean what is in something, which, not belonging to it as a part does, cannot exist seperately from what it is in. For example, an individual bit of grammatical knowledge is in a subject, the soul, but is not said-of any any subject [...]"
"Well, but Plato's republic is very easy to read."
Plato's republic:
"What do you suppose would be his answer if we wer to tell him that he had seen nothing but trash heretofore, but that now, because he is somewhat closer to reality and has turned towards more real things he sees more correctly? and if we were to point to each of these passing objects and make him answer the question "What is it?", don't you suppose he would be puzzled and count the things he had been seeing heretofore more true than the ones pointed out to him now?" (I know this passage might seem harmless to anyone who does not trip over the notion of degrees of truth, which is, however, quite central to the metaphysics, th epistemology, the category theory and the logic presented in the Republic)
I know from first hand experience that philosophy seems easy once one is willing to ignore everything which one does not understand. If you do this, you read on, don't puzzle about what you don't understand and miss the entire point. The difficulty lies not in confirming to oneself well-known platitudes like "Plato wants philosophers to be kings. lol such a donkey". It lies in understanding the details? What does he mean by his theory of the degrees of truth and reality? How does he argue for it? How well does it cohere with other theories also put forth by Plato? Stuff like this you know. Philosophers like Gregory Vlastos, Ludwig Wittgenstein, Thomas Aquinas, Harry Frankfurt, Bertrand Russell, Christopher Shields, Martin Heidegger, ... you name them, they are all still very much puzzled and intrigued by these dialogues and treatises, even thousands of years after they have been written!
btw. the many very accomplished and respected "ancient scholars" are not well known outside their bubble, but that is because A) their work is very specialiced and B) ancient philosophy is so super hard. Philosophy in itself is hard, but with the ancients you can add an entire level of exegetical problems, which you would not get with more contemporary writers. Problems like that the philosophies to which they are referring are lost, linguistic problems, problems of ordering the text passages, problems with possible subsequent editing etc, and a total lack of modern academic conventions, like "Define your concepts first, lay out the structure of your argument etc." Modern analytic philosophy is so beautiful, especially because it is so scholastic.
IS THAT ACCENT FAKE
Yes, obviously, English people don't exist, we're just a figment of the American imagination
I’m really into what you promote, but you speak too fast for an international public, allthough you are vere charming british, please consider us “ slow ones” ❤️🤗 Maybe you’re just trying to reach a british audience, then my apoligies !
There are closed captions.
I have ADD. I’m not aiming for any audience - it’s just how I am I’m afraid. There’s little I can do about it, but you can slow down my videos using the speed monitoring. 🙂
You can slow down the play back speed in the settings of the video. I do that when watching videos in other languages.
Thank you, I kind of knew that, but it’s so much easier when the mothership it self speak slow, instead of all the roundabouts having to adjust speed of speech every time there is a message. 🖖
@@kille-4B I wish it were easier for the mothership to speak slower - but it's not when that mothership has ADD. I listen to all media, including TH-cam and films at 2x speed because everyone talks too slowly for me!
Get a Greek dictionary
I’d have to speak Greek for that to be useful
Not Greek to Greek
Greek to English
I know, but it still wouldn't be helpful because I don't read Greek XD
@@CinziaDuBois
You study Classics.
Why haven't you learnt Greek ?
This is hot .. someone’s about to be picked up and precariously pinned to a wall .,
Wtf.
What's your opinion of Nietzsche's The Birth of Tragedy?