Half of the shit Vaush says can be made into Cards Against Humanity cards. "I have never heard a credible legal or moral argument against _." Perfect card right there. Someone please make a Vaush CAH card pack.
Bro if you only got a gram of copper and was told to make your own pennies with it every time he embarrassed himself you'd still have enough to buy a couple houses.
This was extremely uncomfortable but I’m glad you covered it and even argued in his favor when possible. It makes it clear that his underlying thought-process is a lot worse than just a bad out of context clip
Nux's coverage IMO here was well done, maybe the best one since I've seen this story blow up. Voosh is a politically tarded pervert, I already knew that but Nux's video here absolutely killed it. He was even very charitable for Voosh which lot of the other coverage is not, everyone is ripping on him.
Destiny and Sneako are both cucks that love the movie cuties, with one of them out right admitting he is attracted to the children in the movie, and the other calling it their favorite movie.
It's not just that you can make clothes ethically but can't make child porn ethically. it's that clothes in and of themselves aren't unethical, but child porn in and of itself is unethical. it's not just the support of an unethical industry that's the problem, it's the consumption of the content itself that is unethical, or at the very least extremely weird.
Wrong comparison You can ethically make clothes; you can ethically make porn You cant ethically use child slave labor, just as you cant ethically make cp
Its a funny take from a democrat, since they're such big fans of the CCP, a perpetuator of child labor, maybe even one of the biggest ones. Hes a hypocrite, through and through.
Exactly. It only exists because there is a demand for it. It’s evil. Anyone who watches it, regardless of whether they’re paying for it, they’re contributing to a completely evil “industry” and they know it, they know it’s evil, there’s absolutely no excuse.
The first time I heard his child labor argument I was wearing a sweater I knitted, with yarn I bought from a local alpaca farm, and dyed with poke berries from my own yard. I know that’s not a common situation these days, but it struck me as ironic
I've never been in the business of psychoanalyzing and thoughtpolicing people for what weird shit they're into behind closed doors, as long as they're not hurting anyone with it, but clowning on someone for being a hypocrite and a dumbass is always welcome.
That is a powerful statement. If you're serious, it could be the most ironic thing you've ever typed. I'd expect this from a lemon, but orange juice can be just as sour. (ーー)
@@alexbennet4195 I specifically meant in the context of drawing deeper meaning from degenerate kinks. Guro, waterworks, beast, etc. Even if someone gets off on it habitually, that doesn't necessarily mean they feel that way towards it in reality. Though you're right that it's probably one of the same excuses they use with themselves, I feel like there's a distinction to be made. Unlike just about everything on the wider internet, CP isn't something that someone just accidentally gets ahold of. You can just about prove intent from possession alone, it's not like anyone is getting their hands on something that illegal through legal channels. The way I feel about it, is that if someone is consuming real life CP or snuff, even if they're not directly funding it, they're enabling it.
Vashs entire brand is mind reading and using bad faith arguments to smear others. He's happy to dish it out but can't take being held to any standards let alone the ones he judges others by.
Also, as a 15 year old boy with 0 life experience, it does seem to me that teenage girls in the West are kind of sexualized, not by the majority of society but still a noticeable percentage, dress like adults going to the club, which I find kind of weird
I think there's a big difference between teenagers dressing maturely and society sexualizing teenage girls. Like I know that there are people in the west who sexualize teens, but I wouldn't say there's nearly enough of them to consider it a society thing. For the most part it's still young women that are being sexualized as the ideal, it's just that teenagers are for one reason or another feeling the need or desire to try and fill that role early (which still is a problem, it's just a different one). Japan on the other hand is an example of a society that does have a problem with this with the way they sexualize the concept of high-school girls.
@@WolforNuva "between teenagers dressing maturely" there's nothing mature about dressing up like how western teens do. It's quite literally a child's idea of maturity. Also, OP, don't use the word" sexualized" because these girls choose those clothes on their own. "Sexualization" is a dumb word feminist use to pretend a young woman's bad decisions aren't hers, all to avoid accountability.
@denkerbosu3551 You're projecting you're insecurities and biases all over this one lad, touch grass. Im a man, but I like to wear sleeveless shirts and shit cause its socially common in australia and I have good arms, people like to look good, you're subjective views on it dont mean shit.
Seeee the "an old stupid point i argued early in my career has haunted me" only works when you are moving on from who you used to be lol, having those photos on YOUR PC in a file next to YOUR FUCKING TAXES means nothing has fucking changed and that you aren't even trying to change.
Even if you wanted to make that argument and you where not a pedo you would say: the production and cunsumption of items made with child slaves should be prosecuted as harshly as CP.
its also false equivalency. With iphones and blood diamonds the child suffering is an unnecessary byproduct. With cp the child suffering IS the product.
I will say the take about the oversexualization of minors in the west isn't really sus. (the 36:00 minute argument) The easiest examples are with how we've normalized bikini on minors (bikinis are hyper sexualized in our culture, just look at magazine covers) , have generally promoted fashion that is "sexy" to not only be worn by adults but also teens, and also with how we portray minors in romance movies and shows (the highschool setting is literally portraying minors yet there commonly shots sexualizing the main characters and or love interests). Nux kinda wrote off the argument but it is a pretty mild and common take, just because he talked about the oversexualization of minors doesn't mean he supports it. TLDR Vaush may be a self reporting pedophile, but his take on how minors are oversexualized isn't really sus.
You are 100% correct about this, its amazing how much oversexualization we have put on children and teens. However, i believe that when Vaush goes and explains this, its sus. Because he has attacked a bunch of loli stuff as being CP, while at the same time saying CP is less horrible than child exploitation while also having loli on his folder. What sparks me as super hypocritical is that, whenever these people see CP, incest, SA, any type of serious topic in a LIVE ACTION show. They don't really bat an eye. Game of Thrones, Cuties, 50 Shades of Grey, etc., but the moment a piece of fiction that says these serious topics on videogames, cartoons, anime, comics, manga and books... well everyone loses their minds!
The issue here, and why it comes back around to "Vaush sus" is because in the states (I can't speak for other countries) there's only one group of people that openly support sexualization of minors as well as made (making) attempts to shove pedos into the LGBT++++++++ and become a protected class, and it's a group that Vaush publicly supports.
@@WokioWolfy Everyone went APE mode when cuties came out. Including myself. Truly disgusting.. I never watched Game of Thrones either, probably won't bother, never was into that sort of series.
If I were Vaush - which thank God I am not - I'd have simply said "Yeah that was an attempt to be an edgy boi and point out the hypocrisy of how okay everyone is with child exploitation in other circumstances. Was a shit argument and I kick myself for trying to use shock content in that way." But I guess at this point, trying to back off of the whole thing is...well. That ship sailed. To the moon.
@@taanwallbanks9841 No it isn't, he says 'what-about-ism' but never denounces the statement about CP, he never says it is wrong, never, despite it being brought up countless times over years.
@@Nioclas64 "this statement is obviously optically bad, but logically bad, let me explain why." The entire section of the video he's telling us he's cringing at how needlessly edgy he was
@@taanwallbanks9841 I mean yeah. Honestly, with most things in this video I didn't get the vibe that Vaush was actually defending CP. My guess is he wanted to point out how fucked up society is for accepting child exploitation when it comes to child labour, child actors, child beauty pageants and until very recently in Europe, corporal punishment. The problem is how much he defended his original point instead of just coming out with "Okay, I'll take that L, that was a braindead edgy boi take."
@@CidVeldorilhe wasn't defending it though, he was explaining the thought process, because many of the people who hate him for that clip, don't believe him if he says that and nothing else
You can like whatever H stuff you like IMO. Or heck at least with H we can have a discussion of what you find acceptable or not. With CP however i don't know how the F you can defend real kids getting harmed. And i don't know how you can simultaneously defend CP and call anime fans the P word. And even then you have a folder full of the stuff you say to despise so much? Yeah he's quite a disturbing individual to say the least.
It's interesting how Vaush doesn't defend cp and also doesn't have a folder of it. He had 1 picture in there of an anime like character that looks older that is apparently supposed to be loli, which Vaush claims he didn't know. You can say that's suspect, sure, but I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt when Vaush regularly speaks out against CP and loli
@@zechariah22 he's been pretty vocal about his views on CP. Like ine time he said he hasn't heard a single good argument moral or legal about why CP should be illegal or how we have soo many industries that have child exploitation on them so why CP should be banned. There are many clips dating years.
@@papita_vTuberFanThe fact he didn't even think of the basic reason of kids not being mature enough to even understand that kind of stuff says it all ngl.
The nail is that he saved it. It stuck out to him, he liked it and he wanted to come back to it. He can’t even argue a separation between drawings and the real thing because he himself conflated the two.
You should check out "Vaush is unironically evil video" although it's a bit dry it's pretty good info I think, it's been a few years since I've watched it though....
Oh yeah, that one was so good, and his reaction to it literally made the video's point for him, he watched like 10 minutes on stream, didn't really address the criticism, and rage quit.
That video was really good, it was made by a liberal so nux doesn’t have to worry about edginess or whatever, it’s one of the best videos arguing against vaush in good faith.
@@johnmcauliffe8824 He's getting to a point where he won't even watch shit barely anymore, the whole H3H3 thing where he refused to actually watch the stream and instead read comments of people defending him, That's like 3 layers of strawman at this point, we are talking about whole ass haybales now.
@@doctorgrubious7725 it's so crazy, like that is his one job, actually his one job is to respond to shit people say and he's managed to bastardize it into responding to what chat tells him people said.
38:12 How many romance movies, books, horror movie sex scenes, video game protagonists, anime waifus, fanfictions, photography shoots, teen dramas and other shit have you watched, Nux? Because growing up, I was fed a bunch of media about teens being sexual and horny and attractive. Beach episodes, kids getting frisky at school, dark romances that bordered on obsession. I think it's fair to say that minors are hyper sexualized to the point it had an effect on western youths. The same way Disney's anthropomorphizing animal trend may have had an effect on the furry epidemic, just saying.
As Nux pointed out the most damning thing for Vaush is how his narrative shifted from "These drawings aren't loli because I thought they were drawn like goblins are" to "They aren't loli, just trust me bro". And this argument is made even worse by the fact that he goes on to say "Obviously do not go looking for them", implying that it would be lolicon, because if they were adult women THERE WOULD BE NO PROBLEM IN SEEKING THE IMAGES OUT. Because then it would just be regular anime hentai. If he really wanted to vindicate himself he would have said "Yeah go and find the images and you will be able to clearly tell they aren't lolis at all". His only weak defense is "I couldn't tell they were at the time", as if there is some wiggle room, when he's making it sound like yeah they totally are lolis, don't go looking for them because it's incredibly obvious they are. At that point in the video Vaush is just lying. He has to lie because he's not going to come out and admit he has no problem with wacking off to loli while weaponizing against other people. Massive flub. L + Ratio. Dead to rights. Negative rizz. I'd say do better but his audience is still mostly sticking with him so they don't care about getting bottom tier sludge arguments and Vaush basically admitting he's into lolicon but in a roundabout way that will fool his dumb impressionable audience.
You're completely fabricating what he actually said. His explanation never changed; he said that there were two images in his folder that he later found out were drawn by a lolicon artist. Only one of them had a loli character and he said he hadn't realized it was a loli until he looked at it with that knowledge in mind. It's not an outrageous claim that he didn't look closely at every character in a hentai picture he saved while scrolling through twitter. He had a folder loaded with horse c*ck hentai and one of those images had a loli along side an adult female character and a horse; what part of the picture do you think he was focused the most on? You really think he was focusing on the one loli character that shows up in the whole folder or the woman getting f*kd by a giant horse c*ck, like in all his other hentai pictures?
Yup. He accidentally downloaded loli instead of regular hentai anddddd he labels a majority of anime & manga fans Yahtzees and perverts... why does he enjoy anime and not one of these things? And he happened to download it which is what makes Rev Says Desu, Pippa, et al...yahtzees... but it was an accident. Sure bro. Also your political opinions suck. This whole muddying of the waters thing is giving anime & manga a bad name (like we're all deranged perverts and "alt-roight" lmao what? there are fans of this all over the world of all stripes) and I'm not sure how it's gonna shake out.
You can tell how full of s**t he is about the "I didn't know they were lolis" excuse, simply by watching his reaction to accidentally showing the images on screen. I saw his reaction and it was INSTANT "Whoaaaaaa!" and lightning fast click off. These are the actions of someone who KNOWS their guilty, no mercy to him I say after all the cr*p he puts everyone else through!
So I'm a girl and when I was a preteen/teen I noticed there was an odd amount of adult men who were more into me then than when I became an adult. Overall I think it was somewhat balanced ie I have more people who are interested in me now as an adult then before, however there are alot of expectations and institutions that fetishize youth and looking as young as possible as a girl like the whole jailbait porn catagory and weird men counting down the days until a underage female celebrity is "legal". BUT (and it's a big but lmao) vaush clearly doesn't say this sort of shit out of any sort of care for young women and girls or any attempt to have any level of nuance for womens experiences, it's clearly more to sort of try to make himself feel better about his nasty ass takes. I have no clue if the dude is a pedophile but a LOT of the stuff that comes out of his mouth feels wrong and self incriminating. Like it's one thing to say "we fetishize youth of women to an unhealthy degree" compared to "you know everyone is kind of lead to be attracted to 14 year Olds like that's normal" like no dude it's not normal and the fact that you think it is is genuinely concerning and I think you should probably be on a watch list somewhere.
Agree 1000% with everything you said. I was catcalled by adult men when I was 12 to 19. Once I hit like 25 it stopped dramatically. There's definitely something to the commentary on the fetishizing of teenage girls, but Vaush says it in such a weird way that it feels uncomfortable.
I’m sorry you had to deal with that at such a young age. It’s fucked up how people fetishized youth like that. I agree, Vaush leading with crazy takes like “it’s normal for us to be attracted to 14 year olds.” Is beyond fucked up. Vaush just doesn’t understand he’s a bad person. Thats really my takeaway.
You are absolutely right. I remember the amount of old men that would approach me and my friends when we were young teens. Also, now I see a lot of young girls being sexualized on tik tok in a very normalized way. But every time Vaush comments on this topic, he words it so weirdly it makes you question his intentions in doing so, especially considering how eloquent he can be
Have you actually listened to Vaush discussing this topic or only other people clipping him to make him look bad? It's very obvious to anyone that has listened to Vaush a decent amount of times on this issue that he is coming at it from a feminist perspective. He has said himself that the age of consent should be 21 and that he finds women generally more attractive in their late 20s/30s than in their late teens/early 20s, and that most people who feel otherwise are influenced by unhealthy societal standards. He said on many occasions that too many cultures have an unhealthy obsession with glorifying and fetishizeing youthful traits in women.
@@bunklypeppz have you seen The Authenic Observer's video on Vaush? Anything he does "from a feminist perspective" feels disingenuous when he's so willing to attack a woman for not following his idea of feminism
Oh he is a debater. He is the purest distillation of bad faith that has ever been seen, making great leaps in the fields of deflection, optic management and applied sophistry. He debates without honor or principles, but he still does it.
Agree, simple answer just like Yes and No will be spinned into "in our society bla bla bla ...." just like his recent video. In recent comment i wrote " No Vaush this is not about the society, this is about you and your problem. Don't try to spin it into meaningless term"
@@Struggler-e6h I don't know what you understand as principles, but what I mean is that someone with principles will not flip-flop on what they believe depending on whether or not it's convenient at the time. Vaush has explicitly said that whatever principles are, he didn't believe in them.
The only way to believe there is no moral argument against CP is to believe there is no such thing as moraility. But that's the thing, in Vaush's head the only morality that exists is whatever morality momentarily allows him to bring down others to make himself look superior.
He wasn’t arguing that there wasn’t a moral argument against CP, he simply argued that all those moral arguments are applicable to child exploitation through labour.
Vaush’s take about grown men being attracted to 14 year olds isn’t that strange unfortunately. I started getting catcalled by grown men when I was 12 and it didn’t stop happening to me regularly until I was well into my 20’s. It’s gross. But I guarantee if you ask your women friends when they started getting sexual advances from men most of them would say it happened well before 18.
Everything is a seethe and cope over loli, now everyone has to have a hot take on vaush because of it( comps of cp discussions and clips) followed by loli is collectively sus to the internet yet there are far worse things but no the lines is drawn at loli. Mutha has a axe to grind despite him making content about dark web seen cartel killings Papa meat follows a loli vtuber and had collab with her. The list goes on
@@doctorgrubious7725 One of the largest Lolicons on TH-cam whose platform is mostly being anti-anti-lolicon and posting twitter-based videos which go over retweet ratios and 'liked' media. Nux called the guy an anti-sjw-sjw last year when Rev made a weak callout against Nux.
I wouldn't say he's one of the "largest lolicons" on TH-cam, but I would say his entire career profits from being miserable and making others miserable @@T.BG822
The problem with Vox’s “argument” is we need clothes and unfortunately there’s very few companies and very few affordable companies that make clothes not in sweat shops even buying second hand most of those clothes still wear probably made in a sweat shop but at least it lessens the demand for new sweat shop clothes. We don’t need CP there is no argument for its existence no necessity for it and there is no way to make it without hurting children severely. You can’t argue for it in any way.
But here’s the thing, the argument doesn’t rely on being something you need. Be honest, the device you used to type this comment, is it only at the minimum you need for it to function in everything you need? Or is it either a computer that’s better than you NEED a computer to be or a phone that is better than you NEED a phone to be? Almost certainly. Which isn’t an indictment of you, it’s something true for most people. You can make the exact same argument about gaming computers, or really nice smartphones, or nicer cars. There’s plenty of other examples you can choose from of items that are needed in some capacity but the level of luxury we get from the ones we purchase are completely unnecessary, and we make that purchase knowing full well that children almost guaranteed suffered and possibly died somewhere in the chain of its creation AND that the purchase goes on to indirectly funding the continuation of that practice. That’s the crux of the argument. If you can justify making CP illegal and imprisoning people who buy it, EXPLICITLY for the exact reasoning of “it is an item that was obtained directly through the suffering of children” and “the purchase of which is indirectly supporting the continued abuse of children”, then how can you morally justify completely abdicating any moral or legal responsibility on the part of everyone in the developed world purchasing items that exactly that same reasoning we used to condemn CP purchases also applies to? It’s not an argument in favor of CP, it’s a condemnation of hypocrisy on how we treat our daily participation in the system of slavery.
@@gryph0n55 I mean in my case unfortunately I need a smart phone because the god damn landlord changed all the locks to “smart locks” that need a stupid fucking app to get in my apartment so unless I want to be immediately homeless I gotta have a stupid smartphone because all the affordable apartments in the area changed to these keyless locks. It’s becoming harder and harder to still be a part of society while living differently even slightly differently like not having a smartphone and unfortunately with all the taxes, fees, environmental laws, and other laws it becomes impossible to manufacture affordable products in the country where they can be properly monitored. And so we are in the current mess we are in today. Personally I think we should look at all the taxes laws and fees see which ones are actually needed and remove the one that just line the pockets of the government and their friends because there are definitely some laws that and taxes that only enrich the government and do nothing else. It will still be more expensive then how things are made now because we would still have laws and regulations compared to the places that have none but it will at least open the door for manufacturing to be done here and hopefully create competition that can force the larger companies to change their business practices.
We need those other things, but his argument is that we don't need to rely on unethical means to produce them. His whole point is that people should be less accepting of companies that use child slaves. They use slaves because it costs less, not because slaves are necessary.
@@gryph0n55 absolutely agree, but i believe since we are so used to buying items made by children in so many ways, it starts to seem like a necessity. so when you bought your actually needed items like clothes in expense of these children, you will buy your luxury items, like a gaming computer, also in expense of these children because it seems like an unavoidable extension of that child labor. This is different for CP. CP forces the children to do different horrible things to produce a luxury good (CP) and it seems distinct to the child labor. and so while child labor will be seen as an unavoidable thing to buy basic good + luxury goods as an extension since it already exists anyways, it's normalized But CP is never a necessity and the production method is different entirely (and people will also see this "work" as worse as the labor) + it serves only the people who are hated anyways. i hope i explained it well enough, just wanted to add my thought.
@@bunklypeppz the problem is there is no affordable competition that doesn’t follow theses practices. Due to excessive regulations we have unintentionally created an almost monopoly on the majority of products and have priced out our ability to manufacture locally. The only two directions we can now go is to ether completely cut ties from the world economy and manufacturing accepting the over inflation of prices caused by extreme taxation, fees and regulations or careful deregulation making sure nothing important is removed (such as child labor laws) to allow both new competition and local manufacturing opportunities forcing the current companies to ether change or be replaced by new companies that manufacture locally.
11:40 hot take - exploiting child labor is more ethical than exploiting the bodies of children. There is no equivalence to measure. Kids working in sweat shops is not a good thing, but at least they have some sanctity of self. Cp throws that out the window and is just wholly exploitative
Sanctity of self? Says who? Most kids in sweat shop work live on the verge of starvation, staying in unventilated rooms, surrounded by unguarded machinery for 12+ hours a day; it typically results in over 20 million deaths per year. Not to mention that child slaves are almost invariably victims of sexual abuse as a result of their situation.
Nux, I've been watching you for a long time, and don't really care a whole lot for most of this situation, but your read on this video seemed to be really off the mark in many ways. I'm at 44:00 rn and there've been maybe 5 or 6 things that made me want to write a comment on their own, but at this moment it when you said "20-30 people out of 370" is 30%, when its closer to 5% Having watched his video, it seems really quite consistent to me that there is a line of thinking like this: "CP is one of the worst things that can elicit reactions from people, I'm an edgy debate bro who goes for shock value to prove points, so I used it as an anchoring/reference point quite a few times (especially early in my career)". What seems telling to me is that the Vaush shown in literally every single clip that is brought up looks extremely different from the Vaush of today, like physically. It seems like they all came from a pretty similar time very early on when he claims (and seems to have been) much edgier than he is now I know first hand how irony and edginess can be abused by bad actors to try and paint a bad picture, so maybe I'm just primed to be a bit more forgiving for most of these clips, but even if someone isn't as willing to adjust their view (like you in this scenario, who is biased by your own admission), it's still just a bad read on the things he was trying to explain here. Like you say "I've now heard the full context according to him and still thing xyz", but at least to me, it doesn't feel like you actually understood
54:50 No, that's NOT what he said. He said "in the last 4 years", he's been streaming for 5. Basically getting at what I said here where all of these clips are very old, from the same period, when he was still new to streaming,
Exactly my thoughts. Nux be like "bro you keep trying to explain us context, we understand context", proceeds to completely misrepresent context (like saying his arguments are apologetic of pedophilia, which I haven't heard in any of the clips) To me his Discord messages seemed by far the worst out of any of it, the guy totally deserves hate for those.
There's a video out there that's already a few years old, and it's called "Vaush is unironically evil" and that was all the info I ever needed on him to know he's bad. Of course this means I need to watch more as he takes more Ls :D
From what I've seen, the poppy situation was a lot less cut and dry than a lot of people make it sound. Poppy was apparently totally fine with sexual conversations and direct DMs with Vaush aka IrishLaddie. Until she wasn't. And then she was. And then she wasn't. And then she started to threaten and possibly blackmail Vaush. At which point he leaked the totality of their DMs himself. Maybe I'm wrong, but Destiny did a lot of explaining why what Vaush did was actually not that bad.
Honestly, as a lady, when I was younger. Like, 15 I had my first encounter, and yes, there's a LOT of pedos. I didn't look like a woman until like 21. And honestly, when I'd let people know, "Yo, im 16" they didn't care, and sometimes, they seemed psyched about it. These guys were 25+ and should have definitely been able to tell. Im personally passed all those experiences. But please know, there's more than you'd hope. And there's plenty of people who are fine until giving the opportunity.
I mean. He's openly admitted to acting on his freakish tendencies on his own pets much like a Californian woman. I'm not saying that's definitive proof he's acted on them with children, but its certainly enough to not give him that much benefit of the doubt. .-.
At least people like Rev own their interests, and have a good separation in their minds between fiction and reality which means he doesn't see anime characters as representing anything real. Vaush has shown that he conflates the two, which is sus af in this context. Massive red flags all over. Vaush could have made the child labour argument, without saying that CSEM is somehow acceptable for him to own because he owns products made via child slavery. He's using his ownership of the latter to justify his likely ownership of the former. There's no further context that can make this better. He could've just said he wished that child slavery was taken as seriously as CSEM if that's what he really meant, but he didn't say that, so that's not what he meant. Sorry. Dude's a creep. His "further context" only ever makes it worse.
The argument comparing CSEM to child slavery is ridiculous anyway because _children cannot consent to sex with adults._ It's rape by definition. Creating phones and shirts can be done ethically by hiring adults to do the work and paying fair wages, having safety standards, etc, but exploitative corporations are gonna corporate.
@@ChargedJolteon2 Okay? His character model is literally a loli though, he has said he finds lolis cute and he defends lolicon regularly. Whether or not he IDs as one, he's active in that space and markets his vtuber character towards lolicons. This hairsplitting is pointless.
Speaking of Rev Says Desu... they keep bring up that Taiga crap, and omg, they need to stop... I even told them politely to just chill... it's absolutely biasless when you apologized and the man Taiga himself accepted.
As a former Vaush fan, I would say that the production of goods using child labor is unethical and should be illegal, and that the production of 🌽 is its own form of unethical production, and combining the two means it is twice as unethical and should be twice as illegal as child labor should be.
Vaush was literally saying that both were bad and there was no argument against child pornography that did not also apply to child labor. Do I agree? ...Eh... I don't think child labor encourages harmful behavior in the end consumer in the same way.
@@Grubleafeater It's also extremely dishonest to compare child labor from foreign counties, because you'll actually find HARD to find a country where they actually ENSLAVE their own children like cattle and even harder to find people that buy their stuff, because those methods are extremely unproductive even if you factor in extremely low wages (transportation is still a factor too) and extremely bad for your image as a company in the west. And usually what Vaush and others call "child slavery" is a combination of a lower age to enter the job market and a more pressing societal/economic necessity for families to get their kids working asap. And obviously we can debate about the ethics of a law in a foreign country allowing 16 year old kids to enter the work force and if we should buy said products or not, but what is NOT DEBATABLE is that this is somehow a "moral equivalent" to what will likely be someone MUCH YOUNGER THAN 16 getting sexually assaulted AND recorded for the sexual pleasure some inhuman abomination.
@@Z7Games Okay? I'm not really defending his original take. VAUSH isn't defending his original take. I'm just saying that his original statements were horrible, his original chain of logic was bad, but his intent? His intent was good. He wasn't trying to minimize child porn, he was trying to cast light on the harm of child labor using child porn as a lens. I think we can all sit at our computers and agree that, for many of the same reasons that child pornography is bad, child labor is bad. CP is obviously much worse than child labor, and our consumption of goods produced using child labor is obviously nowhere near as bad as the ones actually applying that child labor are, owing to our lack of alternatives in many instances, and awareness in many others.
@@Grubleafeater I was just adding further reasoning to why the argument is bad, not "attacking" or "defending" anyone. Not everything has to be a "debate me bro"
I'm very confused on how Nux watches the clips of Vaush arguing that CP is bad and PDF's are bad and comes out with the take that he's legitimizing and/or lending moral credence to CP and PDF's. Could someone explain Nux's argument? Or is it just that by trying to logic your way through it rather than simply giving an emotional argument, you're outing yourself as a PDF?
@@bengonzales3434he uses it as a reference point to argue how when it comes to exploiting Children in CP we care, but we don’t care about the children being exploited by child labour. He is morally putting child exploitation through labour in the same category as child exploitation through sexual acts. It’s a bad comparison, but it’s even more hurt by the illiterate People who aren’t reading between the lines.
You really need an explanation why directly getting off to children being viciously abused is incomparable to turning blind eye or being unaware of children working? No matter what kind of mental gymnastics you'd try to apply, wether intentionally or not, Vaush did tried to diminish severity of child abuse.
@andragonm8932 yeah you're right that doesn't mean anything. Besides the fact you're a psycho that downloads & sorts p0rn on your PC in the age of the Internet. Also, using "I thought they were short stack goblins" is a laughable excuse. No one is mistaking L0LIS Short stacks for short stacks
I don't think vaush said that child porn is really moral, he just saying that you can't ignore something similar because it's convenient like child slavery and if you do, you can't really saying anything about children without being a hypocrite.
Except that isn't how he argued it, and he also ignores SIGNIFICANT issues with that argument. Imagine arguing that owning a shirt that went through like 30 different companies and being told "this is literally the same or worse than buying CP"
I mean noncon has it's community which isnt by itself concerning. What is concerning is having multiple of these in tandem. Some SA survivors will use noncon as a coping mechanism to regain control mentally over situations they didnt have any for example. But that's not what we're talking about here. Mostly because it implies the one participating in noncon is having it happen to them, not the other way around. To make clear statements that being into loli hentai is the same as CP [which is false equivalence], and then to go further and call those that consume that media PDF files and then be caught with loli hentai on his system alongside expressing noncon fantasies it's all very sus. There are plenty of people into noncon who do it in a safe manner with rules and their partners - safewords, aftercare, boundaries all that good stuff in bdsm. There are plenty of people who consume loli hentai that arent into noncon. I feel like there is a very specific brand of individual that are into both noncon and loli hentai. There is also a further distinction between whether the loli hentai is featuring petite women or teens. Cause one is obviously way worse than the other. To circle back around: The only reason i can see someone conflating loli h and cp is that they are intentionally trying to make cp more socially acceptable by increasing the severity of loli h in peoples minds. If loli h is near to or as bad as cp then if you personally think that loli h isn't bad then because cp has been put on the same pedistal of wrongness, cp by default shouldnt be that bad. Which is obviously a disgusting attempt at lowering standards for what is acceptable by using comparative logic. They are not the same. A child is actively harmed and exploited in many facets in one case, the other is entirely fictional. I dont know how he thought this was an acceptable stance. It's a similar talking point I've seen from other people outed as PDF Files online - namely EDP
Fun fact tho: There are therapists to help pedos both before and after offending. They use what is called 'hard empathy' (iirc) to try and be empathetic to help the person even if they hate what they did or think. Its to try and help the person (if they are open/willing to participate in therapy) to make it so they won't harm kids again or reduce the risk of re-offending as much as possible. There are some (not all) cases where unresolved trauma of being a victim of a pedo can damage someone enough they re-inact the behaviors as adults which imo is even sadder because to me it sounds a lot like generational trauma in a way where the trauma is passed on from an adult to a child and it becomes a cycle which perpetuates the harm. (don't get me wrong though, I do still think that they need to face consequences if they hurt a child regardless of trauma, trauma isn't an excuse to be abusive). Then there are also cases Ive heard where some pedos (both before and after offending) are reported to have OCD like thoughts about it and treatment can help (iirc and obviously if they are receptive/stick to treatment or even want it). Like the thoughts would be intrusive thoughts, so some cases could be a case of OCD's obsessive thoughts fixating on children sexually rather than 'genuinely' being attracted to kids, if that makes sense? (this is dark but reason I view it like this is when untreated my depression/anxiety made me have intrusive thoughts of 'game over' even though I didn't genuinely want to 'game over', it just made me 'think' I wanted to because it was twisting my brain but also were persistent and I felt trapped in the my situation which is obviously very different in this situation but I wanted to give that example) ngl I am 50% in agreement with his take on the demonizing of it due to the fact that 1) in regards to supporting 'demonizing it' I do think it should NOT be seem in good light as the act of harming a kid is horrendous and making light of it and not emphasizing how socially and morally unacceptable it is could lead to people trying to make it seem morally acceptable (like the pedos pushing for LGBT+ including them but I hope the community made it clear we don't claim them!). Also rug sweeping and not openly talking about it, imo, puts kids at risk because we HAVE to talk to kids about autonomy so they know they can say no if they aren't comfortable and know they can come to an adult they trust to speak about it, be the safe adult! Also what is really important (that ironically was made to seem like your being a pedo doing it) is teaching the right names for the kids genitals rather than shit like 'cookie' because otherwise you have instances of kids trying to express that a relative was 'licking their cookie' and adults think they are being 'cute' or joking when in reality they are being abused and it flies under the radar for YEARS until it escalates. So I think talking about it and making kids aware if an adult touches you in Xyz places that they aren't safe in an age appropriate way while also making it clear that hurting a child will NOT be tolerated by you in a way to hopefully make it so kids of any age can feel safe telling you. 2) in regards to support not demonizing it however, I do think that if the person hasn't physically harmed a kid or consumed any CP (and if they just started, like literally JUST went down that path, but had a wake up call to get help so they stop is better then them continuing or physically hurting a child themselves imo) then I don't think they should be demonize if they genuinely want to seek help because them seeking help not only means they get help for whatever tf is going on in their brain making them feel the need/want to do or see that shit but it also can prevent potential victims in the future. I think thats what people overlook when they think abusers don't deserve therapy or prisoners don't deserve rehabilitation, trying to rehabilitate or 'fix' them/whatever is causing them to be abusive can 1) help their current/past victims hopefully not have to face their abuse anymore and 2) help prevent future victims. I know when someone who was abusive towards me got help I finally stopped being harassed by them (98% of the time, sometimes they crawl out of the wood works) to forgive them and let them back in my life. Its still a different scenario I will again say however even though therapy isn't a fix all thing I do think it could potentially help reduce or prevent damage if the person is willing but that won't excuse their crimes if they did hurt a child or see CP obviously. I think that it should be made more aware that you can talk with a therapist about this shit and not be judged and be helped (however obviously if you hurt a child or consumed CP then they would have to report it, thats common sense). I think some pedos who haven't done any pedo stuff yet are so ashamed of it that they bottle it up and think that even a therapist will judge them/not want to help them and this leads them to hurt a child or consume CP as they eventually cave. So, to summarize the general of the last couple paragraphs: I do think that it 100% shouldn't be taken lightly but I think that it should be talked about more that there is help (if your able to get it/want it) if you are having those thoughts and don't like them or not want to act on them (I think there was a thing awhile ago with self-proclaimed pedos who haven't harmed or are against harming children but admitted to be attracted to kids, it was weird to see/learn about tbh because I've never seen someone openly talk about that but also be against what is commonly associated with something they identify as). Sorry for long rambling about this. Also when watching I got the vibe the dude is trying to copium with Loli corn while also demonizing it because he is attracted to kids, knows how horrible it is thus feels guilt/shame but is both overcompensating to protect the truth of him being a pedo by demonizing lolis (but ironically not actual CP) but also is shaming himself when doing it bc just like how you said he can't not know what he is jerking off to the same goes that he can't not know he is the very person he himself is demonizing. Idk just some interesting what ifs for psychology/behavior stuff. He also, despite being well talking, in some of those 'gotcha' clips he seems to want validation, like the clip of his 'post-nut loli clarity' thing, the way his voice wavers and the 'facade' falls a bit while trying to pass off the 'joke'. If that makes sense? If anyone has read this far, good job, hope you didn't mind the rambling and would love to hear your takes on this.
It those not work. At least as far as caught male offenders goes, the recidivism in that group is huge it dwarfs stuff like drug addiction or alcoholism, and even medication has only a partial success rate. You can try theraphy with male victims , and even there you have an over 40% chance that a victim will become an offender too. And if the person was between 9 and 13 , the % almost doubles. And that is with theraphy, under observation and reported.
@@piotrjeske4599 Sorry if these are random questions but since you know some statistics on this I was wondering about some statistics you said and your knoweledge/takes on these: Do you know/think if the timing of the intervention using therapy affects the statistics of becoming predators by chance? I feel the earlier the trauma is dealt with it might help as usually the earlier the intervention for trauma the better, especially if its in young kids. I was wondering about if timeline between the abuse and treatment would affect the outcome (like likihood of re-offending) as I feel like most do not get therapy until they are older/adults because due to society's stereotypes for men, especially in the past, there is always an emphasis to keep things bottle up (which doesn't help as the shame/guilt of being SA'd , or being actively SA'd, especially if it was by someone they trusted, would make them even less likely to come forward until it's 'too late'). I feel like the % doubling during 9-13 does kinda make sense because those years, especially like 12-13, that is when pre-teen/teen years start and are the beginning of on of some key years for socialization iirc, including beginning to be attracted to others romantically/sexually so being assaulted/groomed could maybe even subconviously affect the brains social wiring. I wonder if the rate of re-offending is higher in those during that time who were repeatedly assaulted or if the rate of re-offending was the same as if someone was assaulted once. Those years are also when puberty can start to take ahold which can affect brain chemistry and trauma can affect the brain a fuck ton. So the changes due to both the trauma and the change in brain chemistry due to puberty would, imo, understandably make it have a higher impact. Also is the therapy you mentioned: would it be outside or inside prison? I am just wondering because in prison it would probably be mandatory therapy and so it might be worth seeing if the statistics would include seperate stats for pedos who didn't want/were forced into therapy and ones who actively wanted it. Its possible that statistic of re-offending even with therapy includes those guys who didn't want therapy, whom of which definitely wouldn't give two shits about re-offending and are, imo, the most dangerous ones with it probably being easy to see how likely they are to re-offend depending on if they have obvious pushback on it. it would interesting to see the data with the willing participants and those unwilling and how they vary tbh. Also sorry for the long ass rambling. I am very interesting in learning more about how the brain could work/psychology and I have ADHD which makes me ramble. Also I hope my questions don't come off as I am trying to justify it, I am just genuinely curious about the statistics you mentioned
As a former fan of vaush's; this is the shit that killed it for me. I saw the loli crap and walked. Unsubscribed and blocked. Screw this attempt at normalizing this crap.
@@Dragno666 community don’t need u anyway. It’s ok though, many are seeing through the bs. Even Ethan’s community is tired of him beating the dead horse now. Vowshites stay winnin 😎
Lets not compare evils. It only serves to delegitimize the other crime. There are many arguments you can use without making light of the oppressions others have faced. Think of saying that to a kid who died being crushed under the debris of a coal mine. There must be solidarity among all wronged peoples.
At 13:01 Vaush makes the argument that we should cut out brands that knowingly use child labor in an effort to stop child labor and how he was trying to use his CP argument to fight for that point, however insinuating that everybody knows what brands use child labor is false! To gain that information you have to actively take time out of your day to do research where these brands get their labor from as not all companies are going to be shady in that manner and not everybody has that time! Most working class people work two or more jobs just to keep a roof over their heads and use any extra time they have to catch up on sleep! CP though, it is common knowledge that children are abused to get that product as without children it's just porn! Even if it's AI or drawing CP, it's still bad because it promotes the production of CP! So saying people making CP and people using child labor is equivalent is simply false!
I think he was making a legal argument, not a moral one in that first clip, but to call people hypocrites for owning pcs and condemning CP was incredibly dumb
@@monmusuaficionado2132 he literally says, "I have yet to hear a moral reason for CP to be illegal" and child labor is illegal here in the states, the problem is that most big companies have the labor done in other countries that do use child labor because it's cheaper than hiring American workers. Which is a lot harder to control as we can't make other countries change their laws to match ours and the brands can say they had no idea who the factory hired, just how much they needed to pay said factory.
@@TheArtChickRosie you got that completely wrong (surprisingly so did Nux). 8:08 "...yet to hear a moral or LEGAL argument for POSSESSION of CP to be illegal". I haven't heard him defend making CP, all of his arguments were about possession, which is a vastly different subject.
@@monmusuaficionado2132 He still uses emotional wording to argue his case, stating if you hate CP you should hate child labor too. Besides, both are illegal here in the states! You also have yet to argue with any of my actual points as I did provide an argument for both the moral, in my original comment, and the legal, in my comment responding to you. Instead you seem more fixated on if he was fighting for the moral or the legal argument which is kinda irrelevant as again both are illegal here in the states! So unless he's trying to get other countries to change their laws to match ours, then there is no legal argument! And if he is trying to get other countries to change their laws, then why is it targeting his debate to Americans? We have no control over what other countries do!
Underage porn is weird as shit. I even had to look up loli. My dumbass just thought it was short people not kids. Loli porn is a weird thing to even exist.
Loli means fictional anime characters of a certain body type. Loli is not an age. Its a body type. Vaush has been demonizing lolicons for years, so its frustrating that when he's finally discovered to be a massive hypocrite, people still only care about attacking drawings instead of the real thing.
@@norwa3518 I had to ban someone from my discord server after multiple rule violations (all within like five minutes of each other...) after they started going after someone hardcore for being a lolicon, throwing around pedophile like it's some flail. You know what doing that crap ACTUALLY does? it hurts real children, cause now when people hear "pedophile" (like the words "racist" "sexist" "homophobic" "n@zi" etc) they question it "Is it really a pedo, or is this another rant about drawings again?"
@@bengonzales3434 I'm not saying its not weird. It is weird. I'm just correcting him on the age part. Loli is a body type. Tatsumaki from OPM is 28 years old and is by definition a loli. The artist even refers to her as such. Is it weird? Yeah, it is. Should we criminalize and demonize people for liking fictional cartoon characters? No. I encourage you to be more respectful. Thats all I'm asking.
Can we seriously stop devaluing this term? Is LP weird? Yes. Is going out of your way to defend it sus? Yes. Do I think we'd be better off if it didn't exist? Probably. Is it CP? Absolutely not. In no way shape or form is it CP. CP is something that's extremely dark and evil, and anyone who partakes in it should be gone from this world. It should be treated with the utmost importance, and acting like LP is the same thing is stupid af.
The only diffrence is that one is fictional and the other isn't. No matter what argument you could make, they're the same thing but one is fictional, which doesn't make it any better.
@@zorgonvoir6896 So, any time you've murdered someone in a game or committed war crimes, you've basically done so in real life, right? Do you hear yourself? "The only difference is that one is real and one isn't." That's a pretty big fucking difference, lol.
@@SurrealEuphoria That's a horrible argument and the fact you think it's valid, is honestly terrifying to me. Let me help you, it's not about what you do in the game, it's about what you do in real life. When i kill someone in minecraft, it's a game, not big deal both in game and outside of it. I'm just having fun playing a harmless game. However, when you do what you're doing, you're both commiting predatory activites in the said game and you're doing something incredibly illegal in real life. But why don't you go outside and say that entire paragraph next to the police station? I'm sure they'll explain the entire thing to you in better detail.
@zorgonvoir6896 What you are doing in real life is getting off to an animation/drawing on a screen, just like in real life, you're pressing buttons to kill a character in a game. You not understanding the difference between reality and fiction is FAR more terrifying. It is also not illegal, so take that bad faith argument elsewhere. And what would the police do, hm? Oh yeah, they'd understand reality vs fiction as well. You genuinely need to seek help if a drawn character feels real to you.
Honestly Vaush says as much in his context video, the CP argument was terribly worded. But the argument itself is valid when you understand what it’s arguing (hint: the argument is explicitly against CP, it doesn’t even really make sense unless it is a condemnation of CP) It’s pretty simple at its core, the same reasoning applies to two things but one is convenient for us to condemn for those reasoning yet the other is inconvenient so we ignore it. There are so many items we purchase that have the stain of slavery, including child slavery, imprinted into them and we KNOW that’s what’s happening. And you can say “well we need things like clothes and there’s not a lot of options to get around it’s poor creation conditions”. But this argument applies beyond what you need. Be honest, the device you used to read this comment, is it only at the minimum you need for it to function in everything you need? Or is it either a computer that’s better than you NEED a computer to be or a phone that is better than you NEED a phone to be? Almost certainly. Which isn’t an indictment of you, it’s something true for most people. You can make the exact same argument about gaming computers, or really nice smartphones, or nicer cars, or a whole slew of items. There is a high probability the overwhelming majority of people here are using a device that is FAR nicer than they functionally need a device to be, and likely purchased it at a higher price than they might have had to pay, thus voluntarily choosing to indirectly support slavery and find personal entertainment and pleasure from a purchase of an item made with the suffering or even deaths of children. There’s plenty of other examples you can choose from of items that are needed in some capacity but the level of luxury we get from the ones we purchase are completely unnecessary, and we make that purchase knowing full well that children almost guaranteed suffered and possibly died somewhere in the chain of its creation AND that the purchase goes on to indirectly funding the continuation of that practice. That’s the crux of the argument. If you can justify making CP illegal and imprisoning people who buy it, EXPLICITLY for the exact reasoning of “it is an item that was obtained directly through the suffering of children” and “the purchase of which is indirectly supporting the continued abuse of children”, then how can you morally justify completely abdicating any moral or legal responsibility on the part of everyone in the developed world purchasing items that exactly that same reasoning we used to condemn CP purchases also applies to, even when many of those purchases are not necessary nor would lead to a significant reduction in quality of life if it had been avoided? It’s not an argument in favor of CP, it’s a condemnation of hypocrisy on how we treat our daily participation in the system of slavery. If we were at all morally consistent then we would at least put SOME responsibility of slavery on the people who voluntarily unnecessarily benefit from children’s suffering and give more financial support to it than they need to. But that would mean we have to take moral/ethical/legal responsibility for the decisions we make to make our lives better at the expense of others, and that isn’t a nice thought, so we go on with our lives using the very same logic that should condemn us to instead condemn others. Notice how this argument makes no sense as an approval of CP? Because it’s not. Vaush, as an inexperienced streaming using shock value to generate interest, chose a really garbage way of phrasing a decently valid argument. Now there’s definitely better ways of framing the argument. But nonetheless it is a valid argument and one that pretty concretely puts the one making it in opposition to CP, not in favor of it.
@@rich9684 that’s not exactly how I’d describe the argument. But the essence is there. If you own CP you are indirectly supporting CP production, likewise if you buy items you know were made with slavery you are also indirectly supporting slavery. It’s a valid question, if you can be charged for simply owning the byproduct of something evil for nothing more than because you indirectly supported said evil thing, then where is that line drawn? Most people who own the newest iPhone don’t NEED the newest and best smartphone you can buy, yet they do so knowing full well their money will trickle down into funding and supporting slave labor around the world whether it’s child slaves mining cobalt in Africa or effectively slaves toiling away in abusive sweatshops to put the phones together. If the argument as to why there needs to be legal consequences for owning CP is exclusively that by owning this product that was made by an evil method and through the suffering of people you have indirectly supported the continuation of that evil method and the suffering of people, then that exact argument can be applied to any luxury purchase someone makes out of desire rather than necessity when it comes to products that have slave labor as some part of the material gathering or production chain of said product’s creation. Which that argument is not a defense of CP, it’s a condemnation of both CP and slavery.
@@gryph0n55 no if you own CP you are directly supporting its production. If you own an iPhone you are not directly supporting slavery. I don’t buy an iPhone thinking “oh good a human is being exploited for its production”. An iPhone can be made without the exploitation of people, the same cannot be said for CP.
Been a fan of nux for a long time. 1. He didnt dodge the animal question. He just knows his community has joked on him for wanting to be a horse/have a horse dong for so long that its well known and memed. Its to the point that said point has been beaten like a dead horse. In a world of bad dregoon wahmen and rule 34 artists theres alot of yal weird in different ways. 2. The actual convo to be had about how fucking creepy and austracize worthy the loli portion of the drama is valid but the info out here is fucking wild. Seeing people shrieking that they saw him have a folder full of cp. Others saying its one image of a character who is supposed to be drawn up that can be misinterprited. Everyone screaming that they are right but everyones stories are extremely varying and if that doesnt give yal pause to take a moment and look round. We should be grilling mfs over the coals for shit they actually did or actually said. Not for portions or mob heresay. Love that the drama community been eating good it just seems like a weirdly avoidable game of telephone where the info keeps morphing channel to channel.
The fact that *VOOSH* has only lost 12k subs while his main attacker H3 lost 40k *and climbing* proves he should actually run because he would be a *very effective politician* 😮 Either that or it's a great argument for removing the ability to vote from all his paypig subs, _top lel_ 😏
As a vaush hater: saying something is illegal is not a sum total argument. It's a really simple minded view of the topic, and it's why people male fun of Nux for this take. There's Moral arguments against P3do stuff. It just requires people to use their brains
I'm a lolicon supporter, but more than that I'm a fiction supporter (hot take, ANYTHING goes if it's fictional). Having said that, I hate that this Vaush situation has overall turned into "lolicon bad", or worse, "anime bad" instead of "Vaush is a hypocrite" But I'm glad Nux is keying in on the hypocrisy part.
right, you can bring the most vile and horrible things to paper and it will never hurt anyone. As long as someone sticks to that to satisfy their needs, no one should care.
When it comes to drawn or digital characters as minors i dont see how it would be any more sus than someone playing GTA being sus. In GTA you commit crimes of genocide for fun so if we consider commiting crimes in virtual media to be totally ok i dont see how one is worse than the other. You might find it weird, but weird is not an argument, that is an appeal to emotions fallacy. If shooter games dont make you a school shooter then watching loli stuff shouldnt make you a predator.
@@aoihitori So you assume people who disagree with the norm are instantly creeps? By that logic, people who play GTA should be put on a watch list. Its only logically consistent.
@zukodude487987 I'm not gonna say your argument is flawed logically, because that seems like the start of a internet debate in one of the worst possible places to have one (and they aren't fun at the best of times). I am going to say I wouldn't blame parents for not leaving their children alone in a room with you after hearing you make this argument.
@@tylerbranson2099 What is the argument? Why are people concerned about guys that consume loli media, but not about people who play games about killing innocent people for fun? Why arent they concerned that the GTA player will just kill their child? Give me an argument instead of a biased appeal emotion fallacy.
for the 14-17 segement of the video: lots of points can be made for age of consent being 12-17 depending on country/state. I doubt its a most but you have to admit there are a lot of people who go for barely legal or injoy barely legal content. so you have to ask your self if they lowered legal what would be their aim. what makes people in their 20s and 30s use cremes and regimens to try to look more youthful. when someone says they say they want someone older than 18 they usually say the maturity aspect as in they think they will be less wild / likely to cheat / make massive and selfish mistakes with life choices. they asked what age would (mostly male) people would to look at not try to settle in and marry who is less likely to screw you over when there is such little control over the stability of a relationship.
Nux casually walking past vaush and throwing a match a few weeks after that digital circus thumbo is a bit of irony i didnt know i needed for my day. Blessed be the dumpster fire and the content it brings
can anyone tell me why people download "stuff"? If you can't hop online in any way and won't be able to for long enough you need a folder that's overflowing but still have access to your desktop/phone, you probably have other more important things to worry about.
Man, when even normies like nux are realizing that vaush is unironically evil, and making vids about it... Well it's not something i expected to see this soon and I've been waiting on it for 4 years already. I expected at least a decade.
The easy way to tale apart these fallacious arguments is to remove the emotionally charged elements and look at the pure sylogism. A is bad. B is bad. A is illegal. B is legal. It does not follow that A should be legal.
EXACTLY. His argument is always "all or nothing" for "moral reasons" which is bullshit, no, that isn't how morality works. You should be looking to reduce bad things, not reason into more.
@@HenrythePaleoGuy with "it" not with "them", this is not a single isolated case of him using this argument style, nor even that argument. The fact that you will see a single instance of something broken down as evidence against anything larger is pretty telling, imo. Also, no shit he doesn't agree with it now, it's something that he gets called out for and generally, attitudes against it have gotten more uptight. He shifts based on the movement of surrounding context and attitudes, or at the very least, shifts what he claims to think. You cannot come up to something controversial 100 times in a row and say "that's old and I no longer agree with it" because that's the same thing countless other celebs, e-celebs, and streamers do that he and others in his circles still rag on - for less, as well.
@@Ryzard Yeah, cause it was an easy edgy example to make. You thinking it means he's projecting his own desires is the thing that's really off. And yeah, that's one of the reasons why he dropped it, but he's still grown as a person over the last few years regardless. His behaviour and how he's gone about this whole bullshit situation that pops up now and then is not consistent with him being a harmful actor, especially compared to how other people who have handled similar and worse situations.
@@HenrythePaleoGuy other people have never even done things to get into this situation to begin with, and other people who have so many less reasons to be mature have done so in the face of much worse controversy. I don't think making a video essay really changes much about the scenario besides having a larger brain than h3. The fact that so many people are addressing old takes and not his folder is also incredibly confusing to me, though I assume it's because a lot of the community back and forth is to whatever h3 was on... But h3 is an idiot so like... Why... Also, again, not just one instance, a pattern spanning more than just one argument style, including stuff said off stream. Ultimately that folder is why I'm here, and it absolutely makes a lot of his prior quotes and statements much more of an issue to me despite following his train of thought given context. I get the arguments. They aren't the issue though. Him just skirting around that and the tied-in beastiality issue are also huge problems in my book. He does the commentary channel thing of providing an absurd amount of explanation on parts that do not matter, like why it was shown to begin with, etc.etc.etc... but not why stuff was what it was, the implications, and the way that pokes holes in other stuff he has said.
00:56 I went and watched the full video just to be completely certain. He never actually DEFENDS so-called “ethical consumption of CP”, whatever that means. Just putting that out there. Even in his most scandalous take. He just tries (poorly) to use it as an analogical argument, which he admits was shakily grounded in any case, and the video shows that clearly. Personally, I fault him for being an idiot, not a predator. On the horse thing, he doesn’t defend it, I’m pretty sure that falls under the “furry prom” portion of the vid where he talks about his prom folder. I get that you don’t like the guy, but please just attack him for the things he’s actually guilty for - you don’t need to spin falsities to find reasons why he’s degen-mode. You’re just doing the same thing that the Vtube community did to you a while back.
People don’t talk about pedophilia this much unless they’re thinking about it more than normal. This is very much a “thou doth protest too much” situation
Half of the shit Vaush says can be made into Cards Against Humanity cards. "I have never heard a credible legal or moral argument against _." Perfect card right there. Someone please make a Vaush CAH card pack.
that would actually be really funny
This would be an amazing idea.
holy shit you're right
Now THIS is someone we allow to cook
This'll get me and the boys back into the game
Don't let vaush learn about Bojack horseman
It's literally one of his favorite shows of all time.
I hear he's auditioning for a role on interspecies review.
@@VespoLiveGamingbruhh 💀
I thinking Bojack is too old for vaush
@@lanereynolds4567
Nah man, vaush likes to imagine himself as the horse.
If I had a nickle for every time Vaush embarrassed himself online, I could invest in a money bin.
I would actually have a wife a kid a business I would be set for life Personally
your money bin will need to be the size of Scrooge McDuck's vault.
Bro if you only got a gram of copper and was told to make your own pennies with it every time he embarrassed himself you'd still have enough to buy a couple houses.
I would have enough booze to be the golden guest of the month on Epstein's magical island
This was extremely uncomfortable but I’m glad you covered it and even argued in his favor when possible. It makes it clear that his underlying thought-process is a lot worse than just a bad out of context clip
Nux's coverage IMO here was well done, maybe the best one since I've seen this story blow up. Voosh is a politically tarded pervert, I already knew that but Nux's video here absolutely killed it. He was even very charitable for Voosh which lot of the other coverage is not, everyone is ripping on him.
Mr. Girl is the guy who defended the existence of the Cuties movie
that doesn’t look like sneako
@@endernightblade1958It's both of them 😆
Both defended it.
Naw, Sneako defended it on like... a really bad film critic kind of way.
Mr Girl said it was sexy.
Destiny and Sneako are both cucks that love the movie cuties, with one of them out right admitting he is attracted to the children in the movie, and the other calling it their favorite movie.
“We looked into the abyss, and the abyss looked at children… and horses”
So made in abyss anime?
@@kyriss12except not even good.
If you stare long enough into the abyss it will neigh.
Part of me is concerned about what is in his taxes folder.
yeah and only his "to be organized" folder was leaked. bro has so much porn downloaded that there was a need to have separate folders for it 💀
@@f_eg how much more organized do you have to be? videos in one folder, pics in another. must have a veritable library of stuff on his harddrive.
A massive security vulnerability. Never keep your taxes in an unencrypted folder.
Horses doing taxes
He is commie we know there definitely no plans for him to pay taxes in there 😂😂😂
Vaush: I'm not a pedophile. I'm a fucking idiot
Me: Why not both?
One usually includes the other :edit: always includes the other
He's both and even more 💀
"I'm not a groomer, I'm just a loser" vibes
@@kdorkolikjerkoliI'm late. That's exactly what I thought but I wasn't sure how to spell ukulele. [See that doesn't look right]
Vaush: I may share some characteristics that pedophile has, but I'm only attracted to 2D.
It's not just that you can make clothes ethically but can't make child porn ethically. it's that clothes in and of themselves aren't unethical, but child porn in and of itself is unethical. it's not just the support of an unethical industry that's the problem, it's the consumption of the content itself that is unethical, or at the very least extremely weird.
THANK YOU.
Wrong comparison
You can ethically make clothes; you can ethically make porn
You cant ethically use child slave labor, just as you cant ethically make cp
Its a funny take from a democrat, since they're such big fans of the CCP, a perpetuator of child labor, maybe even one of the biggest ones. Hes a hypocrite, through and through.
Exactly. It only exists because there is a demand for it. It’s evil. Anyone who watches it, regardless of whether they’re paying for it, they’re contributing to a completely evil “industry” and they know it, they know it’s evil, there’s absolutely no excuse.
The children yearn for the mines, Nux, but they do not yearn to be fucked, I think that is the real argument against moral equivalence.
They yearn for the mines that's for sure but I haven't met any that yearn towards having the soap shower prison treatments
Mhm mhm
The first time I heard his child labor argument I was wearing a sweater I knitted, with yarn I bought from a local alpaca farm, and dyed with poke berries from my own yard. I know that’s not a common situation these days, but it struck me as ironic
Yeah, that's why it's a REALLY bad argument. Wearing clothes isn't inherently bad, where as consuming CP IS.
I've never been in the business of psychoanalyzing and thoughtpolicing people for what weird shit they're into behind closed doors, as long as they're not hurting anyone with it, but clowning on someone for being a hypocrite and a dumbass is always welcome.
That is a powerful statement. If you're serious, it could be the most ironic thing you've ever typed. I'd expect this from a lemon, but orange juice can be just as sour. (ーー)
Based. The thought police shouldn't be allowed to tell us that we can't think Vaush is a stupid pedophile.
So wait, would you apply that to someone downloading ACTUAL СР to their PC, or would you consider THAT “hurting someone”
@@alexbennet4195 I specifically meant in the context of drawing deeper meaning from degenerate kinks. Guro, waterworks, beast, etc. Even if someone gets off on it habitually, that doesn't necessarily mean they feel that way towards it in reality. Though you're right that it's probably one of the same excuses they use with themselves, I feel like there's a distinction to be made.
Unlike just about everything on the wider internet, CP isn't something that someone just accidentally gets ahold of. You can just about prove intent from possession alone, it's not like anyone is getting their hands on something that illegal through legal channels.
The way I feel about it, is that if someone is consuming real life CP or snuff, even if they're not directly funding it, they're enabling it.
Vashs entire brand is mind reading and using bad faith arguments to smear others.
He's happy to dish it out but can't take being held to any standards let alone the ones he judges others by.
Also, as a 15 year old boy with 0 life experience, it does seem to me that teenage girls in the West are kind of sexualized, not by the majority of society but still a noticeable percentage, dress like adults going to the club, which I find kind of weird
I think there's a big difference between teenagers dressing maturely and society sexualizing teenage girls. Like I know that there are people in the west who sexualize teens, but I wouldn't say there's nearly enough of them to consider it a society thing.
For the most part it's still young women that are being sexualized as the ideal, it's just that teenagers are for one reason or another feeling the need or desire to try and fill that role early (which still is a problem, it's just a different one). Japan on the other hand is an example of a society that does have a problem with this with the way they sexualize the concept of high-school girls.
@@WolforNuva "between teenagers dressing maturely" there's nothing mature about dressing up like how western teens do.
It's quite literally a child's idea of maturity.
Also, OP, don't use the word" sexualized" because these girls choose those clothes on their own.
"Sexualization" is a dumb word feminist use to pretend a young woman's bad decisions aren't hers, all to avoid accountability.
@@denkerbosu3551tbf, I think op's statement about "dressing maturely" is more about them emulating styles from young adults
@@denkerbosu3551you know you can sexualize yourself, right?
@denkerbosu3551 You're projecting you're insecurities and biases all over this one lad, touch grass. Im a man, but I like to wear sleeveless shirts and shit cause its socially common in australia and I have good arms, people like to look good, you're subjective views on it dont mean shit.
Vaush loves horses💀
@@lorddoomer7271 ikr
He is a size queen as he said.
@@KaiserTrigger he cant take that size, i'm sure
Funny horsey 🐴
Of course, of course
Positive outcomes for the child? POSITIVE OUTCOMES!?!? POSSIBLY!?!
Goodbye world, I'll see you all in therapy. 💀
Seeee the "an old stupid point i argued early in my career has haunted me" only works when you are moving on from who you used to be lol, having those photos on YOUR PC in a file next to YOUR FUCKING TAXES means nothing has fucking changed and that you aren't even trying to change.
I mean, that folder definitely isn't taxes
What? What's the correlation supposed to be there?
Vaush equating wearing clothes to watching CP is absolutely insane.
I used to know a guy who was so coom brained he’d just watch porn for entertainment value. Not even jerk off he was just completely obsessed with sex.
Even if you wanted to make that argument and you where not a pedo you would say: the production and cunsumption of items made with child slaves should be prosecuted as harshly as CP.
its also false equivalency. With iphones and blood diamonds the child suffering is an unnecessary byproduct. With cp the child suffering IS the product.
to be fair though, he acknowleges that. He realized that four years ago. That was kinda the point of the video.
Yup. That's EXACTLY his point, good job.
I will say the take about the oversexualization of minors in the west isn't really sus. (the 36:00 minute argument) The easiest examples are with how we've normalized bikini on minors (bikinis are hyper sexualized in our culture, just look at magazine covers) , have generally promoted fashion that is "sexy" to not only be worn by adults but also teens, and also with how we portray minors in romance movies and shows (the highschool setting is literally portraying minors yet there commonly shots sexualizing the main characters and or love interests). Nux kinda wrote off the argument but it is a pretty mild and common take, just because he talked about the oversexualization of minors doesn't mean he supports it.
TLDR Vaush may be a self reporting pedophile, but his take on how minors are oversexualized isn't really sus.
You are 100% correct about this, its amazing how much oversexualization we have put on children and teens. However, i believe that when Vaush goes and explains this, its sus. Because he has attacked a bunch of loli stuff as being CP, while at the same time saying CP is less horrible than child exploitation while also having loli on his folder.
What sparks me as super hypocritical is that, whenever these people see CP, incest, SA, any type of serious topic in a LIVE ACTION show. They don't really bat an eye. Game of Thrones, Cuties, 50 Shades of Grey, etc., but the moment a piece of fiction that says these serious topics on videogames, cartoons, anime, comics, manga and books... well everyone loses their minds!
This is fair
The issue here, and why it comes back around to "Vaush sus" is because in the states (I can't speak for other countries) there's only one group of people that openly support sexualization of minors as well as made (making) attempts to shove pedos into the LGBT++++++++ and become a protected class, and it's a group that Vaush publicly supports.
@@WokioWolfy Everyone went APE mode when cuties came out. Including myself. Truly disgusting.. I never watched Game of Thrones either, probably won't bother, never was into that sort of series.
If I were Vaush - which thank God I am not - I'd have simply said "Yeah that was an attempt to be an edgy boi and point out the hypocrisy of how okay everyone is with child exploitation in other circumstances. Was a shit argument and I kick myself for trying to use shock content in that way."
But I guess at this point, trying to back off of the whole thing is...well. That ship sailed. To the moon.
But that is what he said, unfortunately in more words but that is his stance on that statement
@@taanwallbanks9841 No it isn't, he says 'what-about-ism' but never denounces the statement about CP, he never says it is wrong, never, despite it being brought up countless times over years.
@@Nioclas64 "this statement is obviously optically bad, but logically bad, let me explain why." The entire section of the video he's telling us he's cringing at how needlessly edgy he was
@@taanwallbanks9841 I mean yeah. Honestly, with most things in this video I didn't get the vibe that Vaush was actually defending CP. My guess is he wanted to point out how fucked up society is for accepting child exploitation when it comes to child labour, child actors, child beauty pageants and until very recently in Europe, corporal punishment.
The problem is how much he defended his original point instead of just coming out with "Okay, I'll take that L, that was a braindead edgy boi take."
@@CidVeldorilhe wasn't defending it though, he was explaining the thought process, because many of the people who hate him for that clip, don't believe him if he says that and nothing else
You can like whatever H stuff you like IMO. Or heck at least with H we can have a discussion of what you find acceptable or not. With CP however i don't know how the F you can defend real kids getting harmed. And i don't know how you can simultaneously defend CP and call anime fans the P word. And even then you have a folder full of the stuff you say to despise so much? Yeah he's quite a disturbing individual to say the least.
It's interesting how Vaush doesn't defend cp and also doesn't have a folder of it. He had 1 picture in there of an anime like character that looks older that is apparently supposed to be loli, which Vaush claims he didn't know. You can say that's suspect, sure, but I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt when Vaush regularly speaks out against CP and loli
@@zechariah22no, he claimed it was a goblin, not "that he didn't know". Sure are giving a hypocrite a lot of leeway there.
@@zechariah22 he's been pretty vocal about his views on CP. Like ine time he said he hasn't heard a single good argument moral or legal about why CP should be illegal or how we have soo many industries that have child exploitation on them so why CP should be banned. There are many clips dating years.
@@zechariah22bro pulled a vaush & just didn't actually watch the video, damn that's crazy.
@@papita_vTuberFanThe fact he didn't even think of the basic reason of kids not being mature enough to even understand that kind of stuff says it all ngl.
The nail is that he saved it. It stuck out to him, he liked it and he wanted to come back to it. He can’t even argue a separation between drawings and the real thing because he himself conflated the two.
I imagine when Vaush passed away, he wants to be isekai'ed into a horse
And if there is a god, he will be a gelding.
"Into" not like "becoming" the other "into" knowing him.
1:01:55 What the actual fuck? A character being loli is the most _immediately obvious thing_ in an image. It's what attracts lolicons to the image!
You should check out "Vaush is unironically evil video" although it's a bit dry it's pretty good info I think, it's been a few years since I've watched it though....
Oh yeah, that one was so good, and his reaction to it literally made the video's point for him, he watched like 10 minutes on stream, didn't really address the criticism, and rage quit.
That video was really good, it was made by a liberal so nux doesn’t have to worry about edginess or whatever, it’s one of the best videos arguing against vaush in good faith.
@@johnmcauliffe8824 He's getting to a point where he won't even watch shit barely anymore, the whole H3H3 thing where he refused to actually watch the stream and instead read comments of people defending him,
That's like 3 layers of strawman at this point, we are talking about whole ass haybales now.
What do you mean by a bit dry?
@@doctorgrubious7725 it's so crazy, like that is his one job, actually his one job is to respond to shit people say and he's managed to bastardize it into responding to what chat tells him people said.
38:12
How many romance movies, books, horror movie sex scenes, video game protagonists, anime waifus, fanfictions, photography shoots, teen dramas and other shit have you watched, Nux?
Because growing up, I was fed a bunch of media about teens being sexual and horny and attractive. Beach episodes, kids getting frisky at school, dark romances that bordered on obsession.
I think it's fair to say that minors are hyper sexualized to the point it had an effect on western youths. The same way Disney's anthropomorphizing animal trend may have had an effect on the furry epidemic, just saying.
As Nux pointed out the most damning thing for Vaush is how his narrative shifted from "These drawings aren't loli because I thought they were drawn like goblins are" to "They aren't loli, just trust me bro". And this argument is made even worse by the fact that he goes on to say "Obviously do not go looking for them", implying that it would be lolicon, because if they were adult women THERE WOULD BE NO PROBLEM IN SEEKING THE IMAGES OUT. Because then it would just be regular anime hentai.
If he really wanted to vindicate himself he would have said "Yeah go and find the images and you will be able to clearly tell they aren't lolis at all". His only weak defense is "I couldn't tell they were at the time", as if there is some wiggle room, when he's making it sound like yeah they totally are lolis, don't go looking for them because it's incredibly obvious they are. At that point in the video Vaush is just lying. He has to lie because he's not going to come out and admit he has no problem with wacking off to loli while weaponizing against other people.
Massive flub. L + Ratio. Dead to rights. Negative rizz. I'd say do better but his audience is still mostly sticking with him so they don't care about getting bottom tier sludge arguments and Vaush basically admitting he's into lolicon but in a roundabout way that will fool his dumb impressionable audience.
You're completely fabricating what he actually said. His explanation never changed; he said that there were two images in his folder that he later found out were drawn by a lolicon artist. Only one of them had a loli character and he said he hadn't realized it was a loli until he looked at it with that knowledge in mind. It's not an outrageous claim that he didn't look closely at every character in a hentai picture he saved while scrolling through twitter. He had a folder loaded with horse c*ck hentai and one of those images had a loli along side an adult female character and a horse; what part of the picture do you think he was focused the most on? You really think he was focusing on the one loli character that shows up in the whole folder or the woman getting f*kd by a giant horse c*ck, like in all his other hentai pictures?
Man is about as credible as a sexual dehumidifier now.
The way you phrased this was understandable and relatable. Thank you for the tldr.
Yup. He accidentally downloaded loli instead of regular hentai anddddd he labels a majority of anime & manga fans Yahtzees and perverts... why does he enjoy anime and not one of these things? And he happened to download it which is what makes Rev Says Desu, Pippa, et al...yahtzees... but it was an accident. Sure bro. Also your political opinions suck. This whole muddying of the waters thing is giving anime & manga a bad name (like we're all deranged perverts and "alt-roight" lmao what? there are fans of this all over the world of all stripes) and I'm not sure how it's gonna shake out.
You can tell how full of s**t he is about the "I didn't know they were lolis" excuse, simply by watching his reaction to accidentally showing the images on screen. I saw his reaction and it was INSTANT "Whoaaaaaa!" and lightning fast click off. These are the actions of someone who KNOWS their guilty, no mercy to him I say after all the cr*p he puts everyone else through!
So I'm a girl and when I was a preteen/teen I noticed there was an odd amount of adult men who were more into me then than when I became an adult. Overall I think it was somewhat balanced ie I have more people who are interested in me now as an adult then before, however there are alot of expectations and institutions that fetishize youth and looking as young as possible as a girl like the whole jailbait porn catagory and weird men counting down the days until a underage female celebrity is "legal". BUT (and it's a big but lmao) vaush clearly doesn't say this sort of shit out of any sort of care for young women and girls or any attempt to have any level of nuance for womens experiences, it's clearly more to sort of try to make himself feel better about his nasty ass takes. I have no clue if the dude is a pedophile but a LOT of the stuff that comes out of his mouth feels wrong and self incriminating. Like it's one thing to say "we fetishize youth of women to an unhealthy degree" compared to "you know everyone is kind of lead to be attracted to 14 year Olds like that's normal" like no dude it's not normal and the fact that you think it is is genuinely concerning and I think you should probably be on a watch list somewhere.
Agree 1000% with everything you said. I was catcalled by adult men when I was 12 to 19. Once I hit like 25 it stopped dramatically. There's definitely something to the commentary on the fetishizing of teenage girls, but Vaush says it in such a weird way that it feels uncomfortable.
I’m sorry you had to deal with that at such a young age. It’s fucked up how people fetishized youth like that. I agree, Vaush leading with crazy takes like “it’s normal for us to be attracted to 14 year olds.” Is beyond fucked up.
Vaush just doesn’t understand he’s a bad person. Thats really my takeaway.
You are absolutely right. I remember the amount of old men that would approach me and my friends when we were young teens. Also, now I see a lot of young girls being sexualized on tik tok in a very normalized way. But every time Vaush comments on this topic, he words it so weirdly it makes you question his intentions in doing so, especially considering how eloquent he can be
Have you actually listened to Vaush discussing this topic or only other people clipping him to make him look bad? It's very obvious to anyone that has listened to Vaush a decent amount of times on this issue that he is coming at it from a feminist perspective. He has said himself that the age of consent should be 21 and that he finds women generally more attractive in their late 20s/30s than in their late teens/early 20s, and that most people who feel otherwise are influenced by unhealthy societal standards. He said on many occasions that too many cultures have an unhealthy obsession with glorifying and fetishizeing youthful traits in women.
@@bunklypeppz have you seen The Authenic Observer's video on Vaush? Anything he does "from a feminist perspective" feels disingenuous when he's so willing to attack a woman for not following his idea of feminism
He's not a "debater"? He pivots when ever he's backed into a corner and then says some idiotic stuff to sound smart.....
Oh he is a debater. He is the purest distillation of bad faith that has ever been seen, making great leaps in the fields of deflection, optic management and applied sophistry. He debates without honor or principles, but he still does it.
Agree, simple answer just like Yes and No will be spinned into "in our society bla bla bla ...." just like his recent video.
In recent comment i wrote " No Vaush this is not about the society, this is about you and your problem. Don't try to spin it into meaningless term"
@@thomaslacroix6011nobody debates with principles debate isn’t meant to convince your opponent it’s meant to convince your and their audience
@@Struggler-e6h I don't know what you understand as principles, but what I mean is that someone with principles will not flip-flop on what they believe depending on whether or not it's convenient at the time. Vaush has explicitly said that whatever principles are, he didn't believe in them.
Sure, hes a debater. You could call him a "mastur" of it, too, if his To Be Sorted is any indication...
The only way to believe there is no moral argument against CP is to believe there is no such thing as moraility. But that's the thing, in Vaush's head the only morality that exists is whatever morality momentarily allows him to bring down others to make himself look superior.
He wasn’t arguing that there wasn’t a moral argument against CP, he simply argued that all those moral arguments are applicable to child exploitation through labour.
Vaush’s take about grown men being attracted to 14 year olds isn’t that strange unfortunately. I started getting catcalled by grown men when I was 12 and it didn’t stop happening to me regularly until I was well into my 20’s.
It’s gross. But I guarantee if you ask your women friends when they started getting sexual advances from men most of them would say it happened well before 18.
Yep, same sadly. About when I was 12 I started getting attention from men.
vaush is so in the debate bro mindset that he can't relate to relatively normal humans anymore.
Wonder what Nux's opinion on RevSaysDesu is, a year after the larger beef and with the context of MeatCanyon's video.
Weird-ass grifter LOL
What's the context of that and who is that 💀
Everything is a seethe and cope over loli, now everyone has to have a hot take on vaush because of it( comps of cp discussions and clips) followed by loli is collectively sus to the internet yet there are far worse things but no the lines is drawn at loli.
Mutha has a axe to grind despite him making content about dark web seen cartel killings
Papa meat follows a loli vtuber and had collab with her. The list goes on
@@doctorgrubious7725 One of the largest Lolicons on TH-cam whose platform is mostly being anti-anti-lolicon and posting twitter-based videos which go over retweet ratios and 'liked' media. Nux called the guy an anti-sjw-sjw last year when Rev made a weak callout against Nux.
I wouldn't say he's one of the "largest lolicons" on TH-cam, but I would say his entire career profits from being miserable and making others miserable @@T.BG822
The problem with Vox’s “argument” is we need clothes and unfortunately there’s very few companies and very few affordable companies that make clothes not in sweat shops even buying second hand most of those clothes still wear probably made in a sweat shop but at least it lessens the demand for new sweat shop clothes. We don’t need CP there is no argument for its existence no necessity for it and there is no way to make it without hurting children severely. You can’t argue for it in any way.
But here’s the thing, the argument doesn’t rely on being something you need. Be honest, the device you used to type this comment, is it only at the minimum you need for it to function in everything you need? Or is it either a computer that’s better than you NEED a computer to be or a phone that is better than you NEED a phone to be? Almost certainly. Which isn’t an indictment of you, it’s something true for most people. You can make the exact same argument about gaming computers, or really nice smartphones, or nicer cars.
There’s plenty of other examples you can choose from of items that are needed in some capacity but the level of luxury we get from the ones we purchase are completely unnecessary, and we make that purchase knowing full well that children almost guaranteed suffered and possibly died somewhere in the chain of its creation AND that the purchase goes on to indirectly funding the continuation of that practice.
That’s the crux of the argument. If you can justify making CP illegal and imprisoning people who buy it, EXPLICITLY for the exact reasoning of “it is an item that was obtained directly through the suffering of children” and “the purchase of which is indirectly supporting the continued abuse of children”, then how can you morally justify completely abdicating any moral or legal responsibility on the part of everyone in the developed world purchasing items that exactly that same reasoning we used to condemn CP purchases also applies to?
It’s not an argument in favor of CP, it’s a condemnation of hypocrisy on how we treat our daily participation in the system of slavery.
@@gryph0n55 I mean in my case unfortunately I need a smart phone because the god damn landlord changed all the locks to “smart locks” that need a stupid fucking app to get in my apartment so unless I want to be immediately homeless I gotta have a stupid smartphone because all the affordable apartments in the area changed to these keyless locks. It’s becoming harder and harder to still be a part of society while living differently even slightly differently like not having a smartphone and unfortunately with all the taxes, fees, environmental laws, and other laws it becomes impossible to manufacture affordable products in the country where they can be properly monitored. And so we are in the current mess we are in today. Personally I think we should look at all the taxes laws and fees see which ones are actually needed and remove the one that just line the pockets of the government and their friends because there are definitely some laws that and taxes that only enrich the government and do nothing else. It will still be more expensive then how things are made now because we would still have laws and regulations compared to the places that have none but it will at least open the door for manufacturing to be done here and hopefully create competition that can force the larger companies to change their business practices.
We need those other things, but his argument is that we don't need to rely on unethical means to produce them. His whole point is that people should be less accepting of companies that use child slaves. They use slaves because it costs less, not because slaves are necessary.
@@gryph0n55 absolutely agree, but i believe since we are so used to buying items made by children in so many ways, it starts to seem like a necessity. so when you bought your actually needed items like clothes in expense of these children, you will buy your luxury items, like a gaming computer, also in expense of these children because it seems like an unavoidable extension of that child labor. This is different for CP. CP forces the children to do different horrible things to produce a luxury good (CP) and it seems distinct to the child labor.
and so while child labor will be seen as an unavoidable thing to buy basic good + luxury goods as an extension since it already exists anyways, it's normalized
But CP is never a necessity and the production method is different entirely (and people will also see this "work" as worse as the labor) + it serves only the people who are hated anyways.
i hope i explained it well enough, just wanted to add my thought.
@@bunklypeppz the problem is there is no affordable competition that doesn’t follow theses practices. Due to excessive regulations we have unintentionally created an almost monopoly on the majority of products and have priced out our ability to manufacture locally. The only two directions we can now go is to ether completely cut ties from the world economy and manufacturing accepting the over inflation of prices caused by extreme taxation, fees and regulations or careful deregulation making sure nothing important is removed (such as child labor laws) to allow both new competition and local manufacturing opportunities forcing the current companies to ether change or be replaced by new companies that manufacture locally.
This man exudes the meme, "Tell me you're a pedophile without saying you're a pedophile"
11:40 hot take - exploiting child labor is more ethical than exploiting the bodies of children. There is no equivalence to measure. Kids working in sweat shops is not a good thing, but at least they have some sanctity of self. Cp throws that out the window and is just wholly exploitative
Sanctity of self? Says who? Most kids in sweat shop work live on the verge of starvation, staying in unventilated rooms, surrounded by unguarded machinery for 12+ hours a day; it typically results in over 20 million deaths per year. Not to mention that child slaves are almost invariably victims of sexual abuse as a result of their situation.
I thought it could not get worst than a vtuber agency forcing its talent into sex work, but i was wrong.
its hard to change your mind, almost as hard as vaush gets when he sees horses
Nux, I've been watching you for a long time, and don't really care a whole lot for most of this situation, but your read on this video seemed to be really off the mark in many ways. I'm at 44:00 rn and there've been maybe 5 or 6 things that made me want to write a comment on their own, but at this moment it when you said "20-30 people out of 370" is 30%, when its closer to 5%
Having watched his video, it seems really quite consistent to me that there is a line of thinking like this: "CP is one of the worst things that can elicit reactions from people, I'm an edgy debate bro who goes for shock value to prove points, so I used it as an anchoring/reference point quite a few times (especially early in my career)".
What seems telling to me is that the Vaush shown in literally every single clip that is brought up looks extremely different from the Vaush of today, like physically. It seems like they all came from a pretty similar time very early on when he claims (and seems to have been) much edgier than he is now
I know first hand how irony and edginess can be abused by bad actors to try and paint a bad picture, so maybe I'm just primed to be a bit more forgiving for most of these clips, but even if someone isn't as willing to adjust their view (like you in this scenario, who is biased by your own admission), it's still just a bad read on the things he was trying to explain here. Like you say "I've now heard the full context according to him and still thing xyz", but at least to me, it doesn't feel like you actually understood
54:50
No, that's NOT what he said. He said "in the last 4 years", he's been streaming for 5. Basically getting at what I said here where all of these clips are very old, from the same period, when he was still new to streaming,
Exactly my thoughts. Nux be like "bro you keep trying to explain us context, we understand context", proceeds to completely misrepresent context (like saying his arguments are apologetic of pedophilia, which I haven't heard in any of the clips) To me his Discord messages seemed by far the worst out of any of it, the guy totally deserves hate for those.
@@monmusuaficionado2132that's fair, it's dope to see some nuance in the comments here, wasn't expecting it.
There's a video out there that's already a few years old, and it's called "Vaush is unironically evil" and that was all the info I ever needed on him to know he's bad.
Of course this means I need to watch more as he takes more Ls :D
Both Sneako and Mr. Girl defended the Cuties movie.
Lois: "Vaush, The Horse Is Here..." 🐴
Hahaha. Nux saying "he has not acted on this inclination" obviously Nux has no idea about Poppy.
I completely forgot about him sexually harassing Poppy
He also refused to apologise and called her "sub-human"@@Nioclas64
Elaborate? 😢
From what I've seen, the poppy situation was a lot less cut and dry than a lot of people make it sound.
Poppy was apparently totally fine with sexual conversations and direct DMs with Vaush aka IrishLaddie. Until she wasn't. And then she was. And then she wasn't. And then she started to threaten and possibly blackmail Vaush. At which point he leaked the totality of their DMs himself.
Maybe I'm wrong, but Destiny did a lot of explaining why what Vaush did was actually not that bad.
@@ms6534he was sexting a minor....................................... Destiny really defended that?
Honestly, as a lady, when I was younger. Like, 15 I had my first encounter, and yes, there's a LOT of pedos. I didn't look like a woman until like 21. And honestly, when I'd let people know, "Yo, im 16" they didn't care, and sometimes, they seemed psyched about it. These guys were 25+ and should have definitely been able to tell.
Im personally passed all those experiences. But please know, there's more than you'd hope. And there's plenty of people who are fine until giving the opportunity.
I still remember one guy who was absolutely freaked out and full stop. One.
The gym teacher at my high school would "jokingly" Ask fit girls if they were "18 yet."
Nux should definitely debate Vaush and have some notes on hand
Why? Are you into bad faith and lies that much?
I mean. He's openly admitted to acting on his freakish tendencies on his own pets much like a Californian woman. I'm not saying that's definitive proof he's acted on them with children, but its certainly enough to not give him that much benefit of the doubt. .-.
At least people like Rev own their interests, and have a good separation in their minds between fiction and reality which means he doesn't see anime characters as representing anything real. Vaush has shown that he conflates the two, which is sus af in this context. Massive red flags all over.
Vaush could have made the child labour argument, without saying that CSEM is somehow acceptable for him to own because he owns products made via child slavery. He's using his ownership of the latter to justify his likely ownership of the former. There's no further context that can make this better.
He could've just said he wished that child slavery was taken as seriously as CSEM if that's what he really meant, but he didn't say that, so that's not what he meant. Sorry. Dude's a creep. His "further context" only ever makes it worse.
I wouldn't trust rev or vaush to babysit my children, but I wouldn't trust vaush to even be NEAR my children.
@@ChargedJolteon2 His model is literally a loli character because he finds lolis cute at minimum.
The argument comparing CSEM to child slavery is ridiculous anyway because _children cannot consent to sex with adults._ It's rape by definition. Creating phones and shirts can be done ethically by hiring adults to do the work and paying fair wages, having safety standards, etc, but exploitative corporations are gonna corporate.
@@ChargedJolteon2 Okay? His character model is literally a loli though, he has said he finds lolis cute and he defends lolicon regularly. Whether or not he IDs as one, he's active in that space and markets his vtuber character towards lolicons. This hairsplitting is pointless.
@@JayneAFK chill
Less internet drama.. More Adventure Time.
LOL
Speaking of Rev Says Desu... they keep bring up that Taiga crap, and omg, they need to stop... I even told them politely to just chill... it's absolutely biasless when you apologized and the man Taiga himself accepted.
Mr.girl is the guy that defended the movie Cuties from Netflix 🤮
As a former Vaush fan, I would say that the production of goods using child labor is unethical and should be illegal, and that the production of 🌽 is its own form of unethical production, and combining the two means it is twice as unethical and should be twice as illegal as child labor should be.
Vaush was literally saying that both were bad and there was no argument against child pornography that did not also apply to child labor. Do I agree? ...Eh... I don't think child labor encourages harmful behavior in the end consumer in the same way.
@@Grubleafeater
It's also extremely dishonest to compare child labor from foreign counties, because you'll actually find HARD to find a country where they actually ENSLAVE their own children like cattle and even harder to find people that buy their stuff, because those methods are extremely unproductive even if you factor in extremely low wages (transportation is still a factor too) and extremely bad for your image as a company in the west.
And usually what Vaush and others call "child slavery" is a combination of a lower age to enter the job market and a more pressing societal/economic necessity for families to get their kids working asap.
And obviously we can debate about the ethics of a law in a foreign country allowing 16 year old kids to enter the work force and if we should buy said products or not, but what is NOT DEBATABLE is that this is somehow a "moral equivalent" to what will likely be someone MUCH YOUNGER THAN 16 getting sexually assaulted AND recorded for the sexual pleasure some inhuman abomination.
@@Z7Games Okay? I'm not really defending his original take. VAUSH isn't defending his original take.
I'm just saying that his original statements were horrible, his original chain of logic was bad, but his intent? His intent was good. He wasn't trying to minimize child porn, he was trying to cast light on the harm of child labor using child porn as a lens.
I think we can all sit at our computers and agree that, for many of the same reasons that child pornography is bad, child labor is bad.
CP is obviously much worse than child labor, and our consumption of goods produced using child labor is obviously nowhere near as bad as the ones actually applying that child labor are, owing to our lack of alternatives in many instances, and awareness in many others.
@@Grubleafeater
I was just adding further reasoning to why the argument is bad, not "attacking" or "defending" anyone.
Not everything has to be a "debate me bro"
This whole thing feels like it can be summed up as "I ain't judging...but I'm drawing conclusions. A *LOT* of conclusions"
I'm very confused on how Nux watches the clips of Vaush arguing that CP is bad and PDF's are bad and comes out with the take that he's legitimizing and/or lending moral credence to CP and PDF's. Could someone explain Nux's argument? Or is it just that by trying to logic your way through it rather than simply giving an emotional argument, you're outing yourself as a PDF?
@@bengonzales3434he uses it as a reference point to argue how when it comes to exploiting Children in CP we care, but we don’t care about the children being exploited by child labour. He is morally putting child exploitation through labour in the same category as child exploitation through sexual acts. It’s a bad comparison, but it’s even more hurt by the illiterate People who aren’t reading between the lines.
@@bengonzales3434 yeah tbf that sounds very idiotic to say. Never really heard about this guy before the video, but he definitely seems creepy/weird.
You really need an explanation why directly getting off to children being viciously abused is incomparable to turning blind eye or being unaware of children working?
No matter what kind of mental gymnastics you'd try to apply, wether intentionally or not, Vaush did tried to diminish severity of child abuse.
Making vegan gain seem sane its actually insane
Did Vaush dare to compare himself to Sideshow Bob, the heresy on it all
"How do I prove my intentions?!"
Idk bro I think the folder name is a rather clear proof
To be sorted?
@andragonm8932 yeah you're right that doesn't mean anything.
Besides the fact you're a psycho that downloads & sorts p0rn on your PC in the age of the Internet.
Also, using "I thought they were short stack goblins" is a laughable excuse. No one is mistaking L0LIS Short stacks for short stacks
@@andragonm8932 Implies he might have a "loli hentai" folder somewhere.
“I thought it was goblin corn.” ….How? And what???
I don't think vaush said that child porn is really moral, he just saying that you can't ignore something similar because it's convenient like child slavery and if you do, you can't really saying anything about children without being a hypocrite.
Except that isn't how he argued it, and he also ignores SIGNIFICANT issues with that argument. Imagine arguing that owning a shirt that went through like 30 different companies and being told "this is literally the same or worse than buying CP"
Nice LA Noire reference! “Doubt X”
"Taxes Folder"
Homeboy was really trying to compare PDF files to commodity goods. Big fucking yikes.
He also skipped the leaked discord convo where he also seems to be not just into dominance but rxpe fantasy.
Oh, he's a rape fetishist too? Not surprising.
Ok that's it, put that guy on FBI watchlist.
I mean noncon has it's community which isnt by itself concerning. What is concerning is having multiple of these in tandem.
Some SA survivors will use noncon as a coping mechanism to regain control mentally over situations they didnt have any for example.
But that's not what we're talking about here. Mostly because it implies the one participating in noncon is having it happen to them, not the other way around.
To make clear statements that being into loli hentai is the same as CP [which is false equivalence], and then to go further and call those that consume that media PDF files and then be caught with loli hentai on his system alongside expressing noncon fantasies it's all very sus.
There are plenty of people into noncon who do it in a safe manner with rules and their partners - safewords, aftercare, boundaries all that good stuff in bdsm.
There are plenty of people who consume loli hentai that arent into noncon.
I feel like there is a very specific brand of individual that are into both noncon and loli hentai.
There is also a further distinction between whether the loli hentai is featuring petite women or teens. Cause one is obviously way worse than the other.
To circle back around: The only reason i can see someone conflating loli h and cp is that they are intentionally trying to make cp more socially acceptable by increasing the severity of loli h in peoples minds. If loli h is near to or as bad as cp then if you personally think that loli h isn't bad then because cp has been put on the same pedistal of wrongness, cp by default shouldnt be that bad. Which is obviously a disgusting attempt at lowering standards for what is acceptable by using comparative logic.
They are not the same. A child is actively harmed and exploited in many facets in one case, the other is entirely fictional.
I dont know how he thought this was an acceptable stance. It's a similar talking point I've seen from other people outed as PDF Files online - namely EDP
@@rasmachris94now this is something i can read and understand, unlike whatever vaush is cooking... Shi is burnt
@@rasmachris94THIS!!! 100%!!! THIS FEELS EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID
Just for the record, the argument he makes at 41:30 of your video, he cuts off the end of that "joke" where he yells that he doesn't care.
Fun fact tho: There are therapists to help pedos both before and after offending. They use what is called 'hard empathy' (iirc) to try and be empathetic to help the person even if they hate what they did or think. Its to try and help the person (if they are open/willing to participate in therapy) to make it so they won't harm kids again or reduce the risk of re-offending as much as possible.
There are some (not all) cases where unresolved trauma of being a victim of a pedo can damage someone enough they re-inact the behaviors as adults which imo is even sadder because to me it sounds a lot like generational trauma in a way where the trauma is passed on from an adult to a child and it becomes a cycle which perpetuates the harm. (don't get me wrong though, I do still think that they need to face consequences if they hurt a child regardless of trauma, trauma isn't an excuse to be abusive).
Then there are also cases Ive heard where some pedos (both before and after offending) are reported to have OCD like thoughts about it and treatment can help (iirc and obviously if they are receptive/stick to treatment or even want it). Like the thoughts would be intrusive thoughts, so some cases could be a case of OCD's obsessive thoughts fixating on children sexually rather than 'genuinely' being attracted to kids, if that makes sense? (this is dark but reason I view it like this is when untreated my depression/anxiety made me have intrusive thoughts of 'game over' even though I didn't genuinely want to 'game over', it just made me 'think' I wanted to because it was twisting my brain but also were persistent and I felt trapped in the my situation which is obviously very different in this situation but I wanted to give that example)
ngl I am 50% in agreement with his take on the demonizing of it due to the fact that
1) in regards to supporting 'demonizing it' I do think it should NOT be seem in good light as the act of harming a kid is horrendous and making light of it and not emphasizing how socially and morally unacceptable it is could lead to people trying to make it seem morally acceptable (like the pedos pushing for LGBT+ including them but I hope the community made it clear we don't claim them!). Also rug sweeping and not openly talking about it, imo, puts kids at risk because we HAVE to talk to kids about autonomy so they know they can say no if they aren't comfortable and know they can come to an adult they trust to speak about it, be the safe adult! Also what is really important (that ironically was made to seem like your being a pedo doing it) is teaching the right names for the kids genitals rather than shit like 'cookie' because otherwise you have instances of kids trying to express that a relative was 'licking their cookie' and adults think they are being 'cute' or joking when in reality they are being abused and it flies under the radar for YEARS until it escalates. So I think talking about it and making kids aware if an adult touches you in Xyz places that they aren't safe in an age appropriate way while also making it clear that hurting a child will NOT be tolerated by you in a way to hopefully make it so kids of any age can feel safe telling you.
2) in regards to support not demonizing it however, I do think that if the person hasn't physically harmed a kid or consumed any CP (and if they just started, like literally JUST went down that path, but had a wake up call to get help so they stop is better then them continuing or physically hurting a child themselves imo) then I don't think they should be demonize if they genuinely want to seek help because them seeking help not only means they get help for whatever tf is going on in their brain making them feel the need/want to do or see that shit but it also can prevent potential victims in the future.
I think thats what people overlook when they think abusers don't deserve therapy or prisoners don't deserve rehabilitation, trying to rehabilitate or 'fix' them/whatever is causing them to be abusive can 1) help their current/past victims hopefully not have to face their abuse anymore and 2) help prevent future victims. I know when someone who was abusive towards me got help I finally stopped being harassed by them (98% of the time, sometimes they crawl out of the wood works) to forgive them and let them back in my life. Its still a different scenario I will again say however even though therapy isn't a fix all thing I do think it could potentially help reduce or prevent damage if the person is willing but that won't excuse their crimes if they did hurt a child or see CP obviously.
I think that it should be made more aware that you can talk with a therapist about this shit and not be judged and be helped (however obviously if you hurt a child or consumed CP then they would have to report it, thats common sense).
I think some pedos who haven't done any pedo stuff yet are so ashamed of it that they bottle it up and think that even a therapist will judge them/not want to help them and this leads them to hurt a child or consume CP as they eventually cave.
So, to summarize the general of the last couple paragraphs: I do think that it 100% shouldn't be taken lightly but I think that it should be talked about more that there is help (if your able to get it/want it) if you are having those thoughts and don't like them or not want to act on them (I think there was a thing awhile ago with self-proclaimed pedos who haven't harmed or are against harming children but admitted to be attracted to kids, it was weird to see/learn about tbh because I've never seen someone openly talk about that but also be against what is commonly associated with something they identify as).
Sorry for long rambling about this. Also when watching I got the vibe the dude is trying to copium with Loli corn while also demonizing it because he is attracted to kids, knows how horrible it is thus feels guilt/shame but is both overcompensating to protect the truth of him being a pedo by demonizing lolis (but ironically not actual CP) but also is shaming himself when doing it bc just like how you said he can't not know what he is jerking off to the same goes that he can't not know he is the very person he himself is demonizing. Idk just some interesting what ifs for psychology/behavior stuff. He also, despite being well talking, in some of those 'gotcha' clips he seems to want validation, like the clip of his 'post-nut loli clarity' thing, the way his voice wavers and the 'facade' falls a bit while trying to pass off the 'joke'. If that makes sense?
If anyone has read this far, good job, hope you didn't mind the rambling and would love to hear your takes on this.
It those not work. At least as far as caught male offenders goes, the recidivism in that group is huge it dwarfs stuff like drug addiction or alcoholism, and even medication has only a partial success rate. You can try theraphy with male victims , and even there you have an over 40% chance that a victim will become an offender too. And if the person was between 9 and 13 , the % almost doubles. And that is with theraphy, under observation and reported.
@@piotrjeske4599 Sorry if these are random questions but since you know some statistics on this I was wondering about some statistics you said and your knoweledge/takes on these:
Do you know/think if the timing of the intervention using therapy affects the statistics of becoming predators by chance? I feel the earlier the trauma is dealt with it might help as usually the earlier the intervention for trauma the better, especially if its in young kids.
I was wondering about if timeline between the abuse and treatment would affect the outcome (like likihood of re-offending) as I feel like most do not get therapy until they are older/adults because due to society's stereotypes for men, especially in the past, there is always an emphasis to keep things bottle up (which doesn't help as the shame/guilt of being SA'd , or being actively SA'd, especially if it was by someone they trusted, would make them even less likely to come forward until it's 'too late').
I feel like the % doubling during 9-13 does kinda make sense because those years, especially like 12-13, that is when pre-teen/teen years start and are the beginning of on of some key years for socialization iirc, including beginning to be attracted to others romantically/sexually so being assaulted/groomed could maybe even subconviously affect the brains social wiring. I wonder if the rate of re-offending is higher in those during that time who were repeatedly assaulted or if the rate of re-offending was the same as if someone was assaulted once.
Those years are also when puberty can start to take ahold which can affect brain chemistry and trauma can affect the brain a fuck ton. So the changes due to both the trauma and the change in brain chemistry due to puberty would, imo, understandably make it have a higher impact.
Also is the therapy you mentioned: would it be outside or inside prison? I am just wondering because in prison it would probably be mandatory therapy and so it might be worth seeing if the statistics would include seperate stats for pedos who didn't want/were forced into therapy and ones who actively wanted it.
Its possible that statistic of re-offending even with therapy includes those guys who didn't want therapy, whom of which definitely wouldn't give two shits about re-offending and are, imo, the most dangerous ones with it probably being easy to see how likely they are to re-offend depending on if they have obvious pushback on it.
it would interesting to see the data with the willing participants and those unwilling and how they vary tbh.
Also sorry for the long ass rambling. I am very interesting in learning more about how the brain could work/psychology and I have ADHD which makes me ramble. Also I hope my questions don't come off as I am trying to justify it, I am just genuinely curious about the statistics you mentioned
This was savage in every sense of the word. Absolutely no mercy. Great video 👍👌
As a former fan of vaush's; this is the shit that killed it for me. I saw the loli crap and walked. Unsubscribed and blocked. Screw this attempt at normalizing this crap.
Yeah that definitely happened. I also love blocking people on TH-cam.
@@KufLMAO I think it's actually clicking the not for me not interested button. But I digress. Not sure why you are sceptical about my claim but okay.
@@Dragno666 community don’t need u anyway. It’s ok though, many are seeing through the bs. Even Ethan’s community is tired of him beating the dead horse now. Vowshites stay winnin 😎
You should watch the beef between Vaush and Pippa, its funny AF
All exploitation is not created equally… child labor is not in the same level as cp.
cp is 100x worse than child labor.
Lets not compare evils. It only serves to delegitimize the other crime. There are many arguments you can use without making light of the oppressions others have faced. Think of saying that to a kid who died being crushed under the debris of a coal mine.
There must be solidarity among all wronged peoples.
In one the abuse is to cut costs and the other the abuse is the product
Isn't the second thing technically also child labor, meaning it's everything bad about child labor, plus several other bad things?
At 13:01 Vaush makes the argument that we should cut out brands that knowingly use child labor in an effort to stop child labor and how he was trying to use his CP argument to fight for that point, however insinuating that everybody knows what brands use child labor is false! To gain that information you have to actively take time out of your day to do research where these brands get their labor from as not all companies are going to be shady in that manner and not everybody has that time! Most working class people work two or more jobs just to keep a roof over their heads and use any extra time they have to catch up on sleep! CP though, it is common knowledge that children are abused to get that product as without children it's just porn! Even if it's AI or drawing CP, it's still bad because it promotes the production of CP! So saying people making CP and people using child labor is equivalent is simply false!
I *have to* buy clothes from _whatever company_ makes rire resistant pants.
I think he was making a legal argument, not a moral one in that first clip, but to call people hypocrites for owning pcs and condemning CP was incredibly dumb
@@monmusuaficionado2132 he literally says, "I have yet to hear a moral reason for CP to be illegal" and child labor is illegal here in the states, the problem is that most big companies have the labor done in other countries that do use child labor because it's cheaper than hiring American workers. Which is a lot harder to control as we can't make other countries change their laws to match ours and the brands can say they had no idea who the factory hired, just how much they needed to pay said factory.
@@TheArtChickRosie you got that completely wrong (surprisingly so did Nux). 8:08 "...yet to hear a moral or LEGAL argument for POSSESSION of CP to be illegal". I haven't heard him defend making CP, all of his arguments were about possession, which is a vastly different subject.
@@monmusuaficionado2132 He still uses emotional wording to argue his case, stating if you hate CP you should hate child labor too. Besides, both are illegal here in the states! You also have yet to argue with any of my actual points as I did provide an argument for both the moral, in my original comment, and the legal, in my comment responding to you. Instead you seem more fixated on if he was fighting for the moral or the legal argument which is kinda irrelevant as again both are illegal here in the states! So unless he's trying to get other countries to change their laws to match ours, then there is no legal argument! And if he is trying to get other countries to change their laws, then why is it targeting his debate to Americans? We have no control over what other countries do!
Underage porn is weird as shit. I even had to look up loli. My dumbass just thought it was short people not kids. Loli porn is a weird thing to even exist.
Loli means fictional anime characters of a certain body type.
Loli is not an age. Its a body type.
Vaush has been demonizing lolicons for years, so its frustrating that when he's finally discovered to be a massive hypocrite, people still only care about attacking drawings instead of the real thing.
@@norwa3518 I had to ban someone from my discord server after multiple rule violations (all within like five minutes of each other...) after they started going after someone hardcore for being a lolicon, throwing around pedophile like it's some flail. You know what doing that crap ACTUALLY does? it hurts real children, cause now when people hear "pedophile" (like the words "racist" "sexist" "homophobic" "n@zi" etc) they question it "Is it really a pedo, or is this another rant about drawings again?"
@@bengonzales3434 I'm not saying its not weird. It is weird.
I'm just correcting him on the age part. Loli is a body type. Tatsumaki from OPM is 28 years old and is by definition a loli. The artist even refers to her as such.
Is it weird? Yeah, it is. Should we criminalize and demonize people for liking fictional cartoon characters? No. I encourage you to be more respectful. Thats all I'm asking.
To paraphrase John Oliver: "'well, where will it end? Where do you draw the line?' I'll tell you: FUCKING SOMEWHERE."
Can we seriously stop devaluing this term? Is LP weird? Yes. Is going out of your way to defend it sus? Yes. Do I think we'd be better off if it didn't exist? Probably. Is it CP? Absolutely not. In no way shape or form is it CP. CP is something that's extremely dark and evil, and anyone who partakes in it should be gone from this world. It should be treated with the utmost importance, and acting like LP is the same thing is stupid af.
The only diffrence is that one is fictional and the other isn't. No matter what argument you could make, they're the same thing but one is fictional, which doesn't make it any better.
@@zorgonvoir6896 So, any time you've murdered someone in a game or committed war crimes, you've basically done so in real life, right? Do you hear yourself? "The only difference is that one is real and one isn't." That's a pretty big fucking difference, lol.
@@SurrealEuphoria That's a horrible argument and the fact you think it's valid, is honestly terrifying to me. Let me help you, it's not about what you do in the game, it's about what you do in real life. When i kill someone in minecraft, it's a game, not big deal both in game and outside of it. I'm just having fun playing a harmless game. However, when you do what you're doing, you're both commiting predatory activites in the said game and you're doing something incredibly illegal in real life. But why don't you go outside and say that entire paragraph next to the police station? I'm sure they'll explain the entire thing to you in better detail.
@@SurrealEuphoria I'm also waiting for the paragraph about the horse thing, i think you'll want to protect it too.
@zorgonvoir6896 What you are doing in real life is getting off to an animation/drawing on a screen, just like in real life, you're pressing buttons to kill a character in a game. You not understanding the difference between reality and fiction is FAR more terrifying. It is also not illegal, so take that bad faith argument elsewhere. And what would the police do, hm? Oh yeah, they'd understand reality vs fiction as well. You genuinely need to seek help if a drawn character feels real to you.
This feels like the pot calling the kettle black
Honestly Vaush says as much in his context video, the CP argument was terribly worded. But the argument itself is valid when you understand what it’s arguing (hint: the argument is explicitly against CP, it doesn’t even really make sense unless it is a condemnation of CP)
It’s pretty simple at its core, the same reasoning applies to two things but one is convenient for us to condemn for those reasoning yet the other is inconvenient so we ignore it.
There are so many items we purchase that have the stain of slavery, including child slavery, imprinted into them and we KNOW that’s what’s happening. And you can say “well we need things like clothes and there’s not a lot of options to get around it’s poor creation conditions”. But this argument applies beyond what you need. Be honest, the device you used to read this comment, is it only at the minimum you need for it to function in everything you need? Or is it either a computer that’s better than you NEED a computer to be or a phone that is better than you NEED a phone to be? Almost certainly. Which isn’t an indictment of you, it’s something true for most people. You can make the exact same argument about gaming computers, or really nice smartphones, or nicer cars, or a whole slew of items.
There is a high probability the overwhelming majority of people here are using a device that is FAR nicer than they functionally need a device to be, and likely purchased it at a higher price than they might have had to pay, thus voluntarily choosing to indirectly support slavery and find personal entertainment and pleasure from a purchase of an item made with the suffering or even deaths of children.
There’s plenty of other examples you can choose from of items that are needed in some capacity but the level of luxury we get from the ones we purchase are completely unnecessary, and we make that purchase knowing full well that children almost guaranteed suffered and possibly died somewhere in the chain of its creation AND that the purchase goes on to indirectly funding the continuation of that practice.
That’s the crux of the argument. If you can justify making CP illegal and imprisoning people who buy it, EXPLICITLY for the exact reasoning of “it is an item that was obtained directly through the suffering of children” and “the purchase of which is indirectly supporting the continued abuse of children”, then how can you morally justify completely abdicating any moral or legal responsibility on the part of everyone in the developed world purchasing items that exactly that same reasoning we used to condemn CP purchases also applies to, even when many of those purchases are not necessary nor would lead to a significant reduction in quality of life if it had been avoided?
It’s not an argument in favor of CP, it’s a condemnation of hypocrisy on how we treat our daily participation in the system of slavery. If we were at all morally consistent then we would at least put SOME responsibility of slavery on the people who voluntarily unnecessarily benefit from children’s suffering and give more financial support to it than they need to. But that would mean we have to take moral/ethical/legal responsibility for the decisions we make to make our lives better at the expense of others, and that isn’t a nice thought, so we go on with our lives using the very same logic that should condemn us to instead condemn others.
Notice how this argument makes no sense as an approval of CP? Because it’s not. Vaush, as an inexperienced streaming using shock value to generate interest, chose a really garbage way of phrasing a decently valid argument. Now there’s definitely better ways of framing the argument. But nonetheless it is a valid argument and one that pretty concretely puts the one making it in opposition to CP, not in favor of it.
So paying for something that indirectly supports slavery is the “same” as directly supporting CP? That isn’t a great argument.
@@rich9684 that’s not exactly how I’d describe the argument. But the essence is there.
If you own CP you are indirectly supporting CP production, likewise if you buy items you know were made with slavery you are also indirectly supporting slavery. It’s a valid question, if you can be charged for simply owning the byproduct of something evil for nothing more than because you indirectly supported said evil thing, then where is that line drawn?
Most people who own the newest iPhone don’t NEED the newest and best smartphone you can buy, yet they do so knowing full well their money will trickle down into funding and supporting slave labor around the world whether it’s child slaves mining cobalt in Africa or effectively slaves toiling away in abusive sweatshops to put the phones together.
If the argument as to why there needs to be legal consequences for owning CP is exclusively that by owning this product that was made by an evil method and through the suffering of people you have indirectly supported the continuation of that evil method and the suffering of people, then that exact argument can be applied to any luxury purchase someone makes out of desire rather than necessity when it comes to products that have slave labor as some part of the material gathering or production chain of said product’s creation.
Which that argument is not a defense of CP, it’s a condemnation of both CP and slavery.
@@gryph0n55 no if you own CP you are directly supporting its production. If you own an iPhone you are not directly supporting slavery. I don’t buy an iPhone thinking “oh good a human is being exploited for its production”. An iPhone can be made without the exploitation of people, the same cannot be said for CP.
Um ackshually vaush is right because * WALL OF TEXT*
@@swiggynutmcgee2186 unironically yes
Bro is trying to save the titanic with a bucket with holes. 😂😂
Been a fan of nux for a long time.
1. He didnt dodge the animal question. He just knows his community has joked on him for wanting to be a horse/have a horse dong for so long that its well known and memed. Its to the point that said point has been beaten like a dead horse. In a world of bad dregoon wahmen and rule 34 artists theres alot of yal weird in different ways.
2. The actual convo to be had about how fucking creepy and austracize worthy the loli portion of the drama is valid but the info out here is fucking wild. Seeing people shrieking that they saw him have a folder full of cp. Others saying its one image of a character who is supposed to be drawn up that can be misinterprited. Everyone screaming that they are right but everyones stories are extremely varying and if that doesnt give yal pause to take a moment and look round. We should be grilling mfs over the coals for shit they actually did or actually said. Not for portions or mob heresay.
Love that the drama community been eating good it just seems like a weirdly avoidable game of telephone where the info keeps morphing channel to channel.
Jesus... The gecko thing just makes me sad, man :(
The fact that *VOOSH* has only lost 12k subs while his main attacker H3 lost 40k *and climbing* proves he should actually run because he would be a *very effective politician* 😮
Either that or it's a great argument for removing the ability to vote from all his paypig subs, _top lel_ 😏
Actually blood diamonds are illegal to own or sell in several countries including America and Canada
His moral argument could literally be applied to the act of murder. "We accept some bad things, therefore we should accept all bad things".
"Hmmm put the kids to work ? Or grape the kids?"
As a vaush hater: saying something is illegal is not a sum total argument. It's a really simple minded view of the topic, and it's why people male fun of Nux for this take. There's Moral arguments against P3do stuff. It just requires people to use their brains
I'm a lolicon supporter, but more than that I'm a fiction supporter (hot take, ANYTHING goes if it's fictional). Having said that, I hate that this Vaush situation has overall turned into "lolicon bad", or worse, "anime bad" instead of "Vaush is a hypocrite"
But I'm glad Nux is keying in on the hypocrisy part.
right, you can bring the most vile and horrible things to paper and it will never hurt anyone. As long as someone sticks to that to satisfy their needs, no one should care.
When it comes to drawn or digital characters as minors i dont see how it would be any more sus than someone playing GTA being sus. In GTA you commit crimes of genocide for fun so if we consider commiting crimes in virtual media to be totally ok i dont see how one is worse than the other. You might find it weird, but weird is not an argument, that is an appeal to emotions fallacy.
If shooter games dont make you a school shooter then watching loli stuff shouldnt make you a predator.
🤔📸
@@aoihitori So you assume people who disagree with the norm are instantly creeps? By that logic, people who play GTA should be put on a watch list. Its only logically consistent.
@zukodude487987 I'm not gonna say your argument is flawed logically, because that seems like the start of a internet debate in one of the worst possible places to have one (and they aren't fun at the best of times). I am going to say I wouldn't blame parents for not leaving their children alone in a room with you after hearing you make this argument.
@@tylerbranson2099 What is the argument? Why are people concerned about guys that consume loli media, but not about people who play games about killing innocent people for fun? Why arent they concerned that the GTA player will just kill their child? Give me an argument instead of a biased appeal emotion fallacy.
@@zukodude487987 yep, It got worst as I expected. Just emoji is enough to spill the beans on it's own. 📸
33:45 Nux he is referencing actual studies, he says it in the clip
for the 14-17 segement of the video: lots of points can be made for age of consent being 12-17 depending on country/state. I doubt its a most but you have to admit there are a lot of people who go for barely legal or injoy barely legal content. so you have to ask your self if they lowered legal what would be their aim. what makes people in their 20s and 30s use cremes and regimens to try to look more youthful. when someone says they say they want someone older than 18 they usually say the maturity aspect as in they think they will be less wild / likely to cheat / make massive and selfish mistakes with life choices. they asked what age would (mostly male) people would to look at not try to settle in and marry who is less likely to screw you over when there is such little control over the stability of a relationship.
He sounds like he'd be friends with NAMBLA or North American Man/Boy Love Association.
Nux casually walking past vaush and throwing a match a few weeks after that digital circus thumbo is a bit of irony i didnt know i needed for my day. Blessed be the dumpster fire and the content it brings
I wonder if we're gonna see a video about Papa Meat's and Rev's beef
I need content about his, what beef and how does involve Papa Meat and Rev's?
wasnt cuties a french film?
can anyone tell me why people download "stuff"? If you can't hop online in any way and won't be able to for long enough you need a folder that's overflowing but still have access to your desktop/phone, you probably have other more important things to worry about.
Man, when even normies like nux are realizing that vaush is unironically evil, and making vids about it... Well it's not something i expected to see this soon and I've been waiting on it for 4 years already. I expected at least a decade.
The easy way to tale apart these fallacious arguments is to remove the emotionally charged elements and look at the pure sylogism.
A is bad.
B is bad.
A is illegal.
B is legal.
It does not follow that A should be legal.
EXACTLY. His argument is always "all or nothing" for "moral reasons" which is bullshit, no, that isn't how morality works. You should be looking to reduce bad things, not reason into more.
@@Ryzard Always? You do realise that his argument is well over 5 years old now and he doesn't agree with it now?
@@HenrythePaleoGuy with "it" not with "them", this is not a single isolated case of him using this argument style, nor even that argument.
The fact that you will see a single instance of something broken down as evidence against anything larger is pretty telling, imo.
Also, no shit he doesn't agree with it now, it's something that he gets called out for and generally, attitudes against it have gotten more uptight. He shifts based on the movement of surrounding context and attitudes, or at the very least, shifts what he claims to think.
You cannot come up to something controversial 100 times in a row and say "that's old and I no longer agree with it" because that's the same thing countless other celebs, e-celebs, and streamers do that he and others in his circles still rag on - for less, as well.
@@Ryzard Yeah, cause it was an easy edgy example to make. You thinking it means he's projecting his own desires is the thing that's really off.
And yeah, that's one of the reasons why he dropped it, but he's still grown as a person over the last few years regardless. His behaviour and how he's gone about this whole bullshit situation that pops up now and then is not consistent with him being a harmful actor, especially compared to how other people who have handled similar and worse situations.
@@HenrythePaleoGuy other people have never even done things to get into this situation to begin with, and other people who have so many less reasons to be mature have done so in the face of much worse controversy. I don't think making a video essay really changes much about the scenario besides having a larger brain than h3.
The fact that so many people are addressing old takes and not his folder is also incredibly confusing to me, though I assume it's because a lot of the community back and forth is to whatever h3 was on... But h3 is an idiot so like... Why...
Also, again, not just one instance, a pattern spanning more than just one argument style, including stuff said off stream.
Ultimately that folder is why I'm here, and it absolutely makes a lot of his prior quotes and statements much more of an issue to me despite following his train of thought given context. I get the arguments. They aren't the issue though. Him just skirting around that and the tied-in beastiality issue are also huge problems in my book.
He does the commentary channel thing of providing an absurd amount of explanation on parts that do not matter, like why it was shown to begin with, etc.etc.etc... but not why stuff was what it was, the implications, and the way that pokes holes in other stuff he has said.
43:27 Did he say... 'commit sudoku'? Ahahaha, omg.
Leopard geckos are so cute. I had one growing up, why would anyone use them for degenerate things 😢
Were those actually live animals? And he confessed to sexually abusing them? How has he not been arrested yet, I'm pretty sure that's illegal??
He has different gekos not sure the name
Great videos broski... never let up
Why does he think that child labour and child rape is on the same level. Like wtf.
00:56 I went and watched the full video just to be completely certain. He never actually DEFENDS so-called “ethical consumption of CP”, whatever that means. Just putting that out there. Even in his most scandalous take. He just tries (poorly) to use it as an analogical argument, which he admits was shakily grounded in any case, and the video shows that clearly. Personally, I fault him for being an idiot, not a predator.
On the horse thing, he doesn’t defend it, I’m pretty sure that falls under the “furry prom” portion of the vid where he talks about his prom folder.
I get that you don’t like the guy, but please just attack him for the things he’s actually guilty for - you don’t need to spin falsities to find reasons why he’s degen-mode.
You’re just doing the same thing that the Vtube community did to you a while back.
People don’t talk about pedophilia this much unless they’re thinking about it more than normal. This is very much a “thou doth protest too much” situation
He wants to BE the HORSE
"Theres no laws against the pokemon Batman"
-Joker