First time home owner 2 years ago, I have the same as your old setup. I was going to eventually go VFD because i HATE the pressure swings. It's especially bad because I have an in-law unit sharing my water. It's a townhouse style and their second floor (actually third floor counting ground level garage) notices it the most. It's the furthest and highest distance from the pressure tank by far.... I might try this solution instead of VFD.
If you narrow the range and you don't have a large pressure tank your pump will cycle on and off more frequently resulting in MORE wear. So yeah, we all want constant pressure but comes at the expense of pump wearing out faster. (unless you compensate with larger tank)
I like this setup and also add that with power outages you would still have water for a bit as opposed to constant pressure only operate with power available.
Thanks for the video! I had my Franklin Electric 3HP/230V motor replaced a couple years ago with a new model 2823028110, and also got a new pressure tank as the other started leaking (new one is 82 gallons, model H2PL82). I can't stand the 40-60psi differential, kicks on pretty loud, and when I'm watering my yard or someone's using the bath/shower in the new bathroom in the new 1,000sq ft addition we added on to our 2,088 sq ft home, the pressure stinks. We have an AirBnB on the backside of our detached garage and in the Summer I'm a little worried about the low pressure for our guests. My concern in the main house is my whole house water filter gets dirty super fast, is caked brown in just a couple weeks. I've been told a VFD would fix that (less of a violent kick on like my current system, so wouldn't bring up as much silty water). Guessing this digital controller wouldn't fix that issue?
Gosh, this is a tricky one. I can’t imagine your pump is kicking up silt at startup, and if it is, perhaps it needs to be raised in your well casing. The clogged filter is the cause of your poor pressure, so you may want to look at larger capacity filters and more of them (stepped down) before you drop several thousand in a VFD. Also, the digital pressure controller could help, but it can’t handle 3HP motors, so you’d need to wire it into a contactor switch and then to the pump. You probably already have a contactor switch in place if you currently are using a pressure switch, because most pressure switches wouldn’t be rated for 3HP either. Hope this helps
I can't speak to the pros and cons of a VFD, but I have one and have had lots of trouble. My well was drilled 5-6 years ago and a VFD system was installed. Immediately there was water hammer every time the pump cycled on. The installer couldn't resolve it and ended up pulling the pump and replacing it three years ago. The water hammer persisted. He then replaced the VFD, but that did not help. Last week the second pump failed and he replaced that. The water hammer is gone, but so is the pressure. The pumps were replaced under warranty, but I paid for the second VFD. I don't know much about water systems, but I suspect the constant cycling of a VFD has caused two pump failures in less than six years.
Oh goodness! I’m so sorry to hear that. As someone in the industry, I really get frustrated when I hear that people were up-sold a VFD system for no good reason. It’s a large price to pay for a little bit of convenience. Hopefully this video helped imagine new possibilities for your home down the road, and best of luck to you!
I have a family friend who uses her pump only for watering the lawn. They seem to have sized her pump big and her pressure tank small so she has to run a ton of sprinklers simultaneously to try to get the pump to stay on instead of cycling on and off very frequently. The pump will turn on and off in 20 seconds then drain down pretty fast because she only has a 33 gallon tank (30/50 switch so I think that should give her 9 gallons of draw down or something. Anyway, forgive me for being dense but I couldn't conceptualize whether this would help with her problem. If she set her turn on pressure high like 55 and cut off pressure at 60 would that make the pump turn and stay on because it wants to keep the pressure up and even one sprinkler would keep it below 55 thus stopping the cycling? Gould 1hp submersible pump Well is 65 ft deep and the static water level was 15 ft. She doesn't know what depth the pump was placed at
This is a tricky issue to discuss without a full picture of the irrigation system and what each zone requires in terms of pressure and flow. Typically, irrigation zones have to be designed around the output of the pump, or you get issues like this. When we do irrigation systems, we install a Pump Start Relay tied in to the irrigation controller to turn on the pump every time a zone opens, and then we use a Pressure Relief Valve on the supply line to blow excess pressure back into the well/cistern/pond, and then you don’t even need a pressure tank. BUT, again, we only do that after careful work to ensure the pump matches the flow/pressure of each zone. Yes, you could use this as a possible solution, but I would expand the operating pressure differential instead of shrinking it if your goal is to reduce pump run time.
This is a tricky issue to discuss without a full picture of the irrigation system and what each zone requires in terms of pressure and flow. Typically, irrigation zones have to be designed around the output of the pump, or you get issues like this. When we do irrigation systems, we install a Pump Start Relay tied in to the irrigation controller to turn on the pump every time a zone opens, and then we use a Pressure Relief Valve on the supply line to blow excess pressure back into the well/cistern/pond, and then you don’t even need a pressure tank. BUT, again, we only do that after careful work to ensure the pump matches the flow/pressure of each zone. Yes, you could use this as a possible solution, but I would expand the operating pressure differential instead of shrinking it if your goal is to reduce pump run time.
Will this work with a 40 or 60 gallon tank? I live alone, and will prob run a dishwasher twice a week and the laundry once. A 119g tank is way big for my demand. (I know they only hold 1/3 of their volume due to the air inside.) Thanks!
Thanks for content. I won't have a basement to store pressure tanks. Is VFD most current method to eliminate pressure tanks? My goal in 2024 and beyond, is to obtain good water pressure inside of buildings, and not have pressure tanks. What is best practice to do that? New well is 300" deep, water is at 240' or 260 feet without looking at the well permit. The driller log states well flows 12-15gpm. My plan is to have two large underground well cisterns connected together to store well water from the well pump. From the well cisterns what is the best way to provide well water to two or more buildings (a garage/shop and a house) with room for expansion as I develop the lot. Water Well sharing is common in this area of the State using a well sharing agreement and fund. (like an hoa membership) Yes, I want constant water pressure to keep up with water demand in the buildings. So is the VFD pump the only way to provide variable water pressure to my future buildings?
VFDs don’t eliminate the need for pressure tanks, but they do allow you to reduce the size of the pressure tank. Yes, for your application, you have no choice but to use a VFD
Using the constant water pressure pump, do we need to install the blue tank or use a small one gallon reservoir? The contractor is asking for $5500 installing including labor. Is that fair price?
Most constant pressure pumps require at least a small pressure tank, yes. $5500 may be a fair price if you need a high horsepower pump (like a 2-3HP) due to having a deep well. But it is a ton of money if it’s a smaller horsepower pump, and the small convenience of having constant pressure is not worth the large investment, in my opinion. I’ve never had a constant pressure pump for my house and it’s barely noticeable, and not noticeable at all once I did the install noted in this video.
Hello. Will installing the digital switch and reducing the gap in pressure, won’t it make the water pump in the well work harder and decrease the life of the water pump as the water pump made for the standard pressure tank has a hard start and hard stop as compared to the constant pressure tank which has a softer start and softer stop. Can you please advise on this ? Thanks
That’s what the large pressure tank is for - it decreases the frequency of the start/stop cycles. Also, constant pressure pumps aren’t necessarily soft start (it depends on your demand), and I haven’t seen any evidence that soft start pumps allow for a longer pump life. The only way to guarantee a longer pump life is by reducing the amount of cycling on your motor, and that’s what this video shows how to do. Constant pressure pumps, in contrast, run much more frequently than a pump with a pressure switch
Ideally you set your tank pressure to 2 PSI less than your cut-in pressure. So if you set your low side cut in pressure to 50, then tank pressure should be 48 PSI
My home gets about 43psi from the city. Was hoping to bump it up to a constant 60-65 ish with a booster. After watching some videos I'm guessing I would need a constant pressure system, but it sounds like those are expensive and don't last very long?
You should have more subscribers. I was checking reviews on Amazon in this switch has 26% one stars claiming that. The switch is poorly made only last about 8 months tops. Just ask me if you've had these same problems.
Actually, we’ve been selling them for two years now and I have yet to have a problem with any of them that we’ve sold. I installed one at my own house (this video was filmed in my house), and I have been extremely happy with this product. It doubles as a pump protection device and will shut the pump down if air is detected in the line. We rigorously test all our products and, if something proves to be even slightly unreliable, we stop carrying it.
Big flaw in your logic. By reducing the differential in the set points you are effectively doing the same thing as putting in a smaller air tank. The pump will cycle on and off more frequently. The amount of water needed per use dictates whether a CSV or a larger tank makes more sense to reduce the amount of pump cycling. A CSV definitely makes more sense for maintaining a constant pressure for longer period of time.
Thank you for sharing your opinion, but that is simply not correct. Yes, shrinking the differential will cause the pump to cycle more frequently than if there was a large differential, but having a large pressure tank greatly reduces pump cycles. All a cycle stop valve does is keep the pump running. I am trying to mimic a VFD system, but am also trying to reduce electrical consumption as much as possible, and this is the only way to accomplish both. I have installed thousands of pumps over the course of two decades, and this is what I do at my own house. Our well serves two households and with this technique, we’ve effectively run the pump off solar, we cycle the pump on three times a day (on average), and my wife never complains about a swing in water pressure - win, win, win!
7:52 Mechanical is not reliable. I beg to differ.. So don't buy and electrical VFD just an electrical pressure switch with a smaller differential because its better. Have you seen mechanical constant pressure valves? Look into Cycle Stop Valves you will reduce electrical footprint, use smaller cheaper tanks, and much more reliable than any electric product.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Yes, I have quite a bit of experience with Cycle Stop Valves. However, it is not my experience that they reduce electrical usage. In fact, the opposite is true - CSVs use a lot more electricity because they cause the pump to run every time water is demanded, and they cause the pump to continue running so as to reduce short cycling. A pressure tank is the only way to effectively reduce electrical usage, but more importantly it is the only way to reduce pump cycles and thereby extend a pump’s life. Take care
Also, keep in mind that you still have to use a pressure switch with a CSV. All a Cycle Stop Valve does is regulate the flow to extend the run time of the pump to eliminate short cycling. It does not eliminate the need for an electrical switch. The reason that I made this video is that I believe (in my two decades of working on pump systems) that what I mentioned in the video is the best, most affordable, most long-lasting approach to creating an effective pumping system. In fact, this is what I use at my own home. I stopped using CSVs a good 15 years ago because they just don’t make sense in my experience.
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any regular switch you can adjust by turning the nuts to whatever you wanr
Yes, you’re right. It is difficult to fine tune standard pressure switches though
Pressing the up and down arrows simultaneously for 3 seconds should flip the digital readout 180 degrees
GREAT tip!!
First time home owner 2 years ago, I have the same as your old setup. I was going to eventually go VFD because i HATE the pressure swings. It's especially bad because I have an in-law unit sharing my water. It's a townhouse style and their second floor (actually third floor counting ground level garage) notices it the most. It's the furthest and highest distance from the pressure tank by far.... I might try this solution instead of VFD.
Oh wow - yes, I hear ya! Pressure swings can be frustrating. Best of luck to you
If you narrow the range and you don't have a large pressure tank your pump will cycle on and off more frequently resulting in MORE wear. So yeah, we all want constant pressure but comes at the expense of pump wearing out faster. (unless you compensate with larger tank)
Yes that’s exactly right. That’s why we recommend the larger pressure tank in this alternative setup
I like this setup and also add that with power outages you would still have water for a bit as opposed to constant pressure only operate with power available.
Thanks for the video! I had my Franklin Electric 3HP/230V motor replaced a couple years ago with a new model 2823028110, and also got a new pressure tank as the other started leaking (new one is 82 gallons, model H2PL82). I can't stand the 40-60psi differential, kicks on pretty loud, and when I'm watering my yard or someone's using the bath/shower in the new bathroom in the new 1,000sq ft addition we added on to our 2,088 sq ft home, the pressure stinks. We have an AirBnB on the backside of our detached garage and in the Summer I'm a little worried about the low pressure for our guests. My concern in the main house is my whole house water filter gets dirty super fast, is caked brown in just a couple weeks. I've been told a VFD would fix that (less of a violent kick on like my current system, so wouldn't bring up as much silty water). Guessing this digital controller wouldn't fix that issue?
Gosh, this is a tricky one. I can’t imagine your pump is kicking up silt at startup, and if it is, perhaps it needs to be raised in your well casing. The clogged filter is the cause of your poor pressure, so you may want to look at larger capacity filters and more of them (stepped down) before you drop several thousand in a VFD. Also, the digital pressure controller could help, but it can’t handle 3HP motors, so you’d need to wire it into a contactor switch and then to the pump. You probably already have a contactor switch in place if you currently are using a pressure switch, because most pressure switches wouldn’t be rated for 3HP either. Hope this helps
I can't speak to the pros and cons of a VFD, but I have one and have had lots of trouble. My well was drilled 5-6 years ago and a VFD system was installed. Immediately there was water hammer every time the pump cycled on. The installer couldn't resolve it and ended up pulling the pump and replacing it three years ago. The water hammer persisted. He then replaced the VFD, but that did not help. Last week the second pump failed and he replaced that. The water hammer is gone, but so is the pressure. The pumps were replaced under warranty, but I paid for the second VFD. I don't know much about water systems, but I suspect the constant cycling of a VFD has caused two pump failures in less than six years.
Oh goodness! I’m so sorry to hear that. As someone in the industry, I really get frustrated when I hear that people were up-sold a VFD system for no good reason. It’s a large price to pay for a little bit of convenience. Hopefully this video helped imagine new possibilities for your home down the road, and best of luck to you!
I have a family friend who uses her pump only for watering the lawn. They seem to have sized her pump big and her pressure tank small so she has to run a ton of sprinklers simultaneously to try to get the pump to stay on instead of cycling on and off very frequently. The pump will turn on and off in 20 seconds then drain down pretty fast because she only has a 33 gallon tank (30/50 switch so I think that should give her 9 gallons of draw down or something.
Anyway, forgive me for being dense but I couldn't conceptualize whether this would help with her problem. If she set her turn on pressure high like 55 and cut off pressure at 60 would that make the pump turn and stay on because it wants to keep the pressure up and even one sprinkler would keep it below 55 thus stopping the cycling?
Gould 1hp submersible pump
Well is 65 ft deep and the static water level was 15 ft. She doesn't know what depth the pump was placed at
This is a tricky issue to discuss without a full picture of the irrigation system and what each zone requires in terms of pressure and flow. Typically, irrigation zones have to be designed around the output of the pump, or you get issues like this. When we do irrigation systems, we install a Pump Start Relay tied in to the irrigation controller to turn on the pump every time a zone opens, and then we use a Pressure Relief Valve on the supply line to blow excess pressure back into the well/cistern/pond, and then you don’t even need a pressure tank. BUT, again, we only do that after careful work to ensure the pump matches the flow/pressure of each zone.
Yes, you could use this as a possible solution, but I would expand the operating pressure differential instead of shrinking it if your goal is to reduce pump run time.
This is a tricky issue to discuss without a full picture of the irrigation system and what each zone requires in terms of pressure and flow. Typically, irrigation zones have to be designed around the output of the pump, or you get issues like this. When we do irrigation systems, we install a Pump Start Relay tied in to the irrigation controller to turn on the pump every time a zone opens, and then we use a Pressure Relief Valve on the supply line to blow excess pressure back into the well/cistern/pond, and then you don’t even need a pressure tank. BUT, again, we only do that after careful work to ensure the pump matches the flow/pressure of each zone.
Yes, you could use this as a possible solution, but I would expand the operating pressure differential instead of shrinking it if your goal is to reduce pump run time.
Will this work with a 40 or 60 gallon tank? I live alone, and will prob run a dishwasher twice a week and the laundry once. A 119g tank is way big for my demand. (I know they only hold 1/3 of their volume due to the air inside.) Thanks!
Absolutely! I always recommend getting the largest pressure tank you can afford and have room for.
Thanks for content. I won't have a basement to store pressure tanks. Is VFD most current method to eliminate pressure tanks?
My goal in 2024 and beyond, is to obtain good water pressure inside of buildings, and not have pressure tanks. What is best practice to do that? New well is 300" deep, water is at 240' or 260 feet without looking at the well permit. The driller log states well flows 12-15gpm.
My plan is to have two large underground well cisterns connected together to store well water from the well pump.
From the well cisterns what is the best way to provide well water to two or more buildings (a garage/shop and a house) with room for expansion as I develop the lot. Water Well sharing is common in this area of the State using a well sharing agreement and fund. (like an hoa membership)
Yes, I want constant water pressure to keep up with water demand in the buildings. So is the VFD pump the only way to provide variable water pressure to my future buildings?
VFDs don’t eliminate the need for pressure tanks, but they do allow you to reduce the size of the pressure tank. Yes, for your application, you have no choice but to use a VFD
Using the constant water pressure pump, do we need to install the blue tank or use a small one gallon reservoir? The contractor is asking for $5500 installing including labor. Is that fair price?
Most constant pressure pumps require at least a small pressure tank, yes. $5500 may be a fair price if you need a high horsepower pump (like a 2-3HP) due to having a deep well. But it is a ton of money if it’s a smaller horsepower pump, and the small convenience of having constant pressure is not worth the large investment, in my opinion. I’ve never had a constant pressure pump for my house and it’s barely noticeable, and not noticeable at all once I did the install noted in this video.
Hello. Will installing the digital switch and reducing the gap in pressure, won’t it make the water pump in the well work harder and decrease the life of the water pump as the water pump made for the standard pressure tank has a hard start and hard stop as compared to the constant pressure tank which has a softer start and softer stop. Can you please advise on this ? Thanks
That’s what the large pressure tank is for - it decreases the frequency of the start/stop cycles. Also, constant pressure pumps aren’t necessarily soft start (it depends on your demand), and I haven’t seen any evidence that soft start pumps allow for a longer pump life. The only way to guarantee a longer pump life is by reducing the amount of cycling on your motor, and that’s what this video shows how to do. Constant pressure pumps, in contrast, run much more frequently than a pump with a pressure switch
What do you set your tank pressure to if you are able to change your low side of the switch like that?
Ideally you set your tank pressure to 2 PSI less than your cut-in pressure. So if you set your low side cut in pressure to 50, then tank pressure should be 48 PSI
My home gets about 43psi from the city. Was hoping to bump it up to a constant 60-65 ish with a booster. After watching some videos I'm guessing I would need a constant pressure system, but it sounds like those are expensive and don't last very long?
You may want to consider just adding a booster pump. No need for a constant pressure pump for your application, in my opinion
You should have more subscribers. I was checking reviews on Amazon in this switch has 26% one stars claiming that.
The switch is poorly made only last about 8 months tops.
Just ask me if you've had these same problems.
Actually, we’ve been selling them for two years now and I have yet to have a problem with any of them that we’ve sold. I installed one at my own house (this video was filmed in my house), and I have been extremely happy with this product. It doubles as a pump protection device and will shut the pump down if air is detected in the line. We rigorously test all our products and, if something proves to be even slightly unreliable, we stop carrying it.
Big flaw in your logic. By reducing the differential in the set points you are effectively doing the same thing as putting in a smaller air tank. The pump will cycle on and off more frequently. The amount of water needed per use dictates whether a CSV or a larger tank makes more sense to reduce the amount of pump cycling. A CSV definitely makes more sense for maintaining a constant pressure for longer period of time.
Thank you for sharing your opinion, but that is simply not correct. Yes, shrinking the differential will cause the pump to cycle more frequently than if there was a large differential, but having a large pressure tank greatly reduces pump cycles. All a cycle stop valve does is keep the pump running. I am trying to mimic a VFD system, but am also trying to reduce electrical consumption as much as possible, and this is the only way to accomplish both. I have installed thousands of pumps over the course of two decades, and this is what I do at my own house. Our well serves two households and with this technique, we’ve effectively run the pump off solar, we cycle the pump on three times a day (on average), and my wife never complains about a swing in water pressure - win, win, win!
7:52
Mechanical is not reliable. I beg to differ.. So don't buy and electrical VFD just an electrical pressure switch with a smaller differential because its better. Have you seen mechanical constant pressure valves? Look into Cycle Stop Valves you will reduce electrical footprint, use smaller cheaper tanks, and much more reliable than any electric product.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Yes, I have quite a bit of experience with Cycle Stop Valves. However, it is not my experience that they reduce electrical usage. In fact, the opposite is true - CSVs use a lot more electricity because they cause the pump to run every time water is demanded, and they cause the pump to continue running so as to reduce short cycling. A pressure tank is the only way to effectively reduce electrical usage, but more importantly it is the only way to reduce pump cycles and thereby extend a pump’s life. Take care
Also, keep in mind that you still have to use a pressure switch with a CSV. All a Cycle Stop Valve does is regulate the flow to extend the run time of the pump to eliminate short cycling. It does not eliminate the need for an electrical switch. The reason that I made this video is that I believe (in my two decades of working on pump systems) that what I mentioned in the video is the best, most affordable, most long-lasting approach to creating an effective pumping system. In fact, this is what I use at my own home. I stopped using CSVs a good 15 years ago because they just don’t make sense in my experience.