I think what you two are doing is really changing the standard for how videos on guitar sound are done. Even as goofy as it is, this video is so thorough, using video and sound to show us what is going on, with careful explanation at each step. These videos will stand as the go-to's for how-to's for years to come! Well done, gentlemen.
This is possibly the best demonstration for anyone wanting to learn about mic placement I have ever seen and I spent three years doing audio engineering at university. I spent £9000 a year and That Pedal Show are doing it better!
I think I've learned more watching this show than I have in the last 10 years. It's not always about technique or ability in your playing ( though I still need major help here, but that's on me to practice). Thank you guys so much for all the info and making it digestible, and direct and fun!
Dan and Mick, it is very important that no one EVER hook up a PASSIVE ribbon mic to phantom power, as that will destroy the ribbon element. If one is using an ACTIVE ribbon, it requires phantom power, but none should ever confuse these two, and always know that if phantom power is switched on a mixer or a channel from a preamp, NEVER plug in a PASSIVE ribbon mic to that device or channel. A cloud lifter is often used to boost signal from a dynamic mic, say a Shure SM7 b or a passive ribbon mice, and it may require phantom power to activate the lifter, but it will not pass the 48v phantom power to the mic. Please pass the warning along, thanks.
Awesome stuff, good to see a visual and aural representation of how the positioning affects the tone, i think its even more crucial for a gainy sound. Really helpful for those of us who don't have a studio setting to test these things. BTW the soundman placing a mic on the amp head has happened to me, however a funnier one is one of my fellow guitar players was experiencing 60 cycle hum from his rig, then i watched the sound man get down to his pedalboard with his ear flush to the pedals to see which one was humming, speechless
Thanks guys. I am in the midst of a recording session in a very high profile studio in 6 months, and you solved my issue in how to mic my amp properly. I cannot thank you enough :D
This video let me understand two things: A) I have to put more attention on how I mic my amp during my gigs; B) Every review on TH-cam is highly influenced by micing technics (so maybe crap is not crap..); Thank you guys! You're always great. I definitely have to buy a t-shirt.. :-)
Great video guys. I got an internship at a studio last year in an attempt to find out what to do with my life, (turns out I probably want to be an engineer) and this was very informative, encouraging, and fun to watch. Keep up the great work!
A general note for all: When using more than one mic remember to check your phase relationships gang. Especially with distance micing. (You could really hear it in this wonderful video when the dynamic and condenser were compared and summed during the distance and room micing sections) Cheers!
+Ed Pettersen Good shout Ed. We mention phase at the end. Obviously critically important to understand. Not just to make sure it's always in, but to know when it sounds cool out! Thanks for watching!
Absolutely! And one of the first things I learned as an engineer that could be helpful as well to those digging deeper (I know Dan knows this): Polarity is an electromagnetic concept. Phase is a relationship between waves. Rock on!!
YES! I'm ever so glad you mentioned phase at the end. throughout the video on the double mic'd bits I had this uneasy feeling inside that people were learning double mic'ing without learning about phase coherency! i was indeed screaming at the screen WHAT ABOUT THE PHAAAAASE!!!
What I like most about both of you, and the reason I subscribed is your attitude towards life. I can see you guys are passionate about what you do and the joy, positivity, and enthusiasm can be seen in every video. Keep on rockin mate!
I think it would be great to see a video of your ideal rigs. For example, everything from your favorite guitars to your favorite pedals to your favorite amp configuration to create your favorite tones!
Dan, I've got to say mate, every time I watch the show I always get excited when you play. You've got so many cool licks that I keep trying to incorporate into my playing. Seriously love your playing man. Cheers for inspiring a young Queenslander! Much platonic love.
I remember watching Glenn's Mic episode and being blown away by the impact of micing. An excellent refresher with my band heading to the studio to record soon. Great episode!
AWESOME episode guys!! I asked a question on a video a couple of days ago regarding what Mic's you use on the amps, and you release this episode today! Amazing! Love you guys, and the show!!
No that's a linear law. I think you are meaning the inverse square law (applies to photography as well) which states that if the mic distance is doubled, the sound intensity is (1/2)^2= 1/4, only one quarter of the original mic position's intensity. Thanks for a very wholesome video! Cheers
I've always had trouble getting a good dirt sound from a condenser/capacitor, but it's fantastic for cleans. Ended up settling on a sm57 for dirty and a condenser/capacitor (or both) for cleans! And thanks for the awesome post editing!
+ Nate Col - Shure sure got the SM 57 and 58 right the first time around. All these years later and they're still in use world-wide. Basically the Strat and Les Paul of microphones.
Really depends on the mic. I use a Neumann KM140 for most everything /sometimes with a Sennheiser MD441/ and it makes the guitars sit with bass and vocals instantly.
Ibanezman03 100%!!! I'm sure a better quality mic would help, but I'm speaking mainly from a budget friendly point of view. Condensers around the same price point as an sm57 just don't cut it for higher gain sounds IMO.
Jup, definitely. Investing in 1 or 2 Neumann- pencil condensers is definitely worth it. You can use them for most everything and they are durable like a sm57.
I love the SM27. Great for just about everything and takes high SPL. I used to have a pair and used them for everything. Great close and far on guitar.
I've tried almost everything, and the one I keep coming back to is the Beyer M160 ribbon - not too close, and angle it from edge to centre of the cone to get more/less brightness. I've been using mine for 30 years now, and it's always given me a sound which is good to incredible.
Guys! What an awesome video. This really usable advice. I don't have access to the recording software and mics you guys have so this shows me what to look for when miking my little combo amp. I use an sm57 and I've never been happy with the low-end response. I might just upgrade to the e906 after hearing this. Thanks for what you do!
Man, I love this channel. The stuff I learned from you guys have been some of the most valuable info regarding guitars that I've ever come across. You made me realize I need proper power for my pedals (which was a huge deal for me) and you also inspired me to really get my pedal board to a better level. You guys have opened me up to so many new tonal possibilities. For example, I just bought a Mesa lone star special and got it in the mail yesterday, and Mick inspired me to do so! I know you have the LSC, but that's beside the point. I never would've bought a Mesa before, and I absolutely love this amp. I guess I just want to say thanks for being so awesome. Also, I love that you're pretty much the only channel that talks about Kingsley pedals. You need to pull a few strings and get Simon to send you one of his amps! I'm on the waitlist (2.5 years!!) but I'd love to see more of his stuff in your show.
That ribbon is gutsy! I was just at a recording seminar with Mark Hornsby and Don Carr at Sweetwater here in the states specifically on this topic, and they recommended using a ribbon for the chunky low end, and a dynamic for the crisp top end. They used a Royer R121 and an SM57, and it was magic!
YES YES YES YES!! Haven't even watched it yet but know it's going to be a great vid. Can't wait to watch when I get home. Thank you for covering such important topics.
Every time I think I've got my sound down and have everything I need you guys do an episode and I'm like, "ooh, I need one of those!" Great show as always.
Ohhhhhhhh it was the Room Mic! THAT'S what added all the sweetness, a bit of thickness and movement and loveliness to your show! That thing would've been solid gold for the Rotary episode... (PS: You guys ever considered doing an episode about the Boss DS1 and variants? You've done the Tubescreamers so the DS1 seems like a logical next step...)
+Fabio Suenaga Incredible technology, and we'd say probably better than micing if you play heavier music with a really dense mix. For our kind of thing however - very traditional guitars and vintage style amps and music - you can't beat the sound of a mic on a proper amp. Thing is with a lot of modern heavy music, it's sooooo produced in terms of compression, EQ, quantising etc etc etc, I've been to a few recording sessions with modern bands and just been astounded at how much everything is manipulated. So traditional amps and mics are just a PITA in that situation. May as well do it all digitally from the top. For roots and more vintagey sounds, not so much. In my opinion (Mick here).
Synth... :O) In the last 27 years, I've watched them come and go, but only recently seen the Fishman Triple Play (and I see the kinda Roland hex pickup still there) and though it actually seems to work, in the end I'd rather make a guitar sound crazy, and use that sound, that do Guitar to MIDI.
The e906 is my personal favorite, but I really like the addition of the XY room mic. it's like an analog dry-through on a reverb pedal: you've still got your attack, but with a little extra something. Great video guys!
Very useful video! Esp. the bit at the end that show all the lead/rythm placement/panning combinations. My takeaways: - It turns out my ears liked... a dynamic mic, right on the grill, just off axis. Surprise! But now I know *why* we all do it. - Even better, same but also blend in a condenser a little further away. - For a huge 70s rhythm sound: one close dynamic, one further condenser, each panned all the way L/R. - The room x/y overheads didn't do much for me personally. But I'm sure that depends on the room.
Still watching this but the wheely trolley mic stand is brilliant !!! So effective at demonstrating the difference in frequency range depending on mic placement.
thanks, this is exactly what I wanted. your videos have been an immense help ever since I started my 'tone journey' and after a year of playing I'm just starting to reach the point where your videos make sense. keep going guys, great stuff!
You guys should do more challenges! We love them! A most versatile board challenge would be cool. Least versatile with most pedals, most expensive, etc
Studio 1 at Abbey Road is the really big room - great for orchestras and choirs. The Sennheiser E906 DOES have a supercardioid pattern - supercardioid has a slightly tighter pattern ( heart shaped .. or squashed kidney if you like ) but also picks up from the rear of the mic in a very tight pattern. ) Excellent, REALLY excellent show !!
Where they recorded "Shine On You Crazy Diamond". They stuck Gilmour's amps in there and moved the mic's to the back of the studio to get that sound of a huge space. Or so I believe....
I'm so happy to know you have been using the Sennheiser E-906. It is a secret weapon. Everyone talks about the Shure SM57, which is great, BUT the E-906 sounds just amazing to my ears. It's my number one mic for guitars by a long shot.
+David Morley Yep, Mick here. Use it for pretty much everything. I love that mic. (Or at least I trust it/it's easy to carry and use etc etc.) Thanks for watching!
Good demo of miking techniques. The three microphones are "worlds apart" from each other. I've found that a 57 or the awesome e906 (my favourite) work for every electric guitar recording and live situation. They always help the guitar find its place in the mix.
Brilliant job gentleman- an excellent tutorial on mics, mic positioning, and an overall basic approach to getting tones from an amp. Thank you as always for your dedication to the instrument.
Great playing as always to both of you. Thanks very much for showing the context of the mics in a mix at the end. Lots of helpful stuff again this week, keep up the good work.
Thumbs up before watching! I know that cab sims and IRs are great and simple but for me miking and its challenges are part of the fun (no deadlines looming probably help :). Great episode!
The guys at Tiny Desk often use those long, thin style mics, though I'm sure a modern equivalent, and I've always been impressed with the quality of the recordings. Edit: The section where you wheeled the mic across the face of the speaker has to be one of the best demonstrations I've seen for this. Great job! It truly shows why I've always preferred slightly off-center.
Those are shotgun condenser mics, used a lot in video recording because they're suuuuuper directional. They're specially designed to eliminate off-axis sound (using cool science and stuff), so they really only capture what they're pointing at and nothing else. That makes them very useful for recording in a noisy environment like an outdoor interview, a movie set (one mic pointing at whomever's talking) or a band with a singer that's really close to other noisy instruments. :-)
Thanks for another great video guys! I've never miced an amp, nor tried to learn about it either so what you've show me here will be very helpful in knowing what I want in the micing section of my two notes cab! It wasn't that cab sim video that is incoming someday, but it's still massively applicable!
I have watched a lot of your videos. I enjoy them all, but this one was outstanding for being so informative and eye opening! As always, thanks for sharing your insights!
A very cool special effect microphone that is relatively affordable is the Placid Audio Copperphone. I have one and it's great for an old school, lo-fi sound. Green Day uses them live, I think. Be sure to check those out if you want to add a unique texture to your mic collection. I also recommend the Cascade Fathead ribbon mics for budget-oriented players. Works especially well blended with a 609 or SM57. For recording with only 1 mic, I personally really dig the sound of a ribbon mic spaced back from the amp a bit so that the opposite side of the figure 8 pattern picks up some room sound. Royer 121, Neumann U87 or Shure SM7B on the front with SM57 in the open back of my combo has been great in the studio. Can't go wrong with an SM57 or e609 live, the 609 is super convenient.
Will you perhaps make an update-video to this one? I understand you use ribbon mics these days. Also some tips on how to get rid of (mitigate) the "hum" and "sis" and "sshhhh" sounds that come out of the amp. Cheers!
Hello! We do use ribbons sometimes, but mostly it’s large diaphragm capacitors these days. All of those things you mention can be mitigated to a large extent by mic position. Also be aware that some of the hiss and hum might come from your mic preamp (or input on your interface) being turned up very loud. To check this, turn the amp off and listen to what’s coming in, turning the preamp/input gain on the mic pre/interface up and down. Some of them can be really noisy. Good luck!
Great vid guys, brings back memories of staying at my mate Pete Harwood's place (Guitarist of Morpheus Rising and guitar tech to Steve Rothery). He'd just got his mic set up on his cab exactly right and was very wary any time my slightly drunken form swayed towards the mics as it had taken him weeks to get them just right. He had a ribbon mic and an SM57. The mixed sound from the two was HUGE! Thinking about investing in the Senneheiser you use here, and possibly a cheaper ribbon mic, to experiment with recording my lovely little Epiphone Century Amp. Maybe next month though ;)
What a great episode! I've always used dynamic mics, because I was told they were the best long ago. Now hearing this episode I really want a ribbon mic!!!!!
+Brandon Lewis Yeah, we're going to be using that mic a LOT more. Needs to be closer to the centre of the speaker for the sizzle, but man it's good! E906 has a nice bit of pronounced upper mid - great for live - but sometimes you don't want that. Thanks for watching!
I use a Royer R-121 80% of the time, and an SM57 20% of the time. I find the R121 allows lots of track stacking for guitar orchestra effects, and the SM57 for a more in-your-face sounds for solos or melodic line overdubs.
Really great show guys! Have totally wondered about this concept before and never cared about looking into it. This whole channel seems to be about how to understand sound and how to understand the nuances and manipulate them so you can get what you want in any given circumstance. As a gigging bass player I feel this is soooo important for room sound. I can't wait o have my next gig in a boomy-ass room so I can show it who's boss...only to have it eat me alive for the first set. One day...
+Aaron Carothers Hahah!!! Thanks for the kind words Aaron. That's exactly it. We're all a little bit obsessed with wondering what gear is 'best' and sometimes that can feel like the point of the show. But as you say, it's really not - it's about just trying to have an arsenal of knowledge and experience that can get you to the best place for you personally. That's what we're here for! Thanks for watching!
with the amount of stuff you guys cover, i'm surprised there hasn't been one on what TYPES of guitars you both prefer. as in would you rather have a strat or a tele? or a prs vs a les paul. Or talking about what kind of stuff you liked when you were younger vs what you actually use now to gig/record :) keep it up, you guys
you guys... cardioid: heart-shaped :) cardioid, cardio, cardiac... Thanks for this show, btw. I was just starting to set up my own little recording area; fortuitous timing!
TL;DR: Use YOUR ears and trust YOUR ears. Also try refining/checking mic placement with a high gain sound; the added harmonic content makes the phase and room response more audible. 48:28 As far as I understand it, that "powers of three" rule works for direct sound to the mic; which does indeed make it a great 'rule of thumb' approach for any room. Something that is harder to account for is the reflections in the room that the mic may also pick up. The room reflections could make the distant mic accentuate things that you don't like, even though when they are combined, the If you have a depth you like, One trick is to solo the room and try adjusting the HEIGHT of the microphone. And be extreme with it. Put it at shoe level, put it as high as your stand can go, and everywhere in between until you get a room sound you want. Then combine it with the close mic and move the room mic a few inches closer or farther away until they are in phase. You likely wont need to move it around too much unless you changed the height dramatically. Another note of caution is that this does not work with room mics that are relatively close to the cabinet, you have to be at least 4 or 5 feet away.
I liked listening to the clean sound as you backed away with the condenser mic. It made me wonder if people have ever literally walked around the room while recording to do manual phasing. Also, a great technique in setting up the room mic is to use an oscilloscope to test for phase coherence. Because although moving the mic further away from the source will reduce the amount of dbs reaching the capsule, this can be slightly reversed if the microphones are in phase with each other.
absolutely the best one of these kinds of videos I've seen, and in my years of semi-pro recording and live sound (as in I make money but not my primary income) I've seen a LOT of these kinds of videos. You did a killer job at making the right points to get someone thinking about mics and placement correctly. The only thing I would have added is that mics and placement are massively important, but they can only record what's coming out of the amp, and sometimes what sounds good when you're getting "your sound" sounds terrible for a mic that's super close. So I like to think of it as my "live sound" vs my "recording sound" and really my recording sound is just me trying to recreate what the player loves about their live sound. Don't try to sound good in the room, try to sound good in the recording! High fives to the both of you for a great and entertaining video that I'm definitely going to share around.
+JKM395 Excellent - good luck to you. If we may offer a tiny bit of advice... try not to sweat it. Stick the mic a few inches off the grille somewhere just off the centre of the cone. Then concentrate on playing. :0)
good stuff. Not boring to me at all. Great to hear insight on things like this. would love a video on different speaker comparison. V30, Creamback 65m, alnico cream etc shootout.
Killer episode. Great job guys. It was super informative. Close up, I found the ribbon to muddy and the condenser too spiky. The dynamic was just right. Somehow it's mids we're the most pleasant. The combo of close dynamic, slightly off center with the condenser far off was the best sound today. Killer tone.
+Frank N Hey Frank. The condenser and Ribbon sound very different depending on placement. Same as the dynamic. So they weren't presented in their perfect lights in that demo. We'll be using the Delta quite a bit more in coming weeks. :9)
Anyone else re-watching this to be re-educated whilst attempting some home recording during lockdown..? Stay safe everyone.
here too mate
yep and depressed that the ribbon mics are 10000000000x more expensive than the other mics : (
Yup
I can only watch 2/3 of your videos before you are drowned out by the noise of my guitar.
happens to me all.the.time!!!
but not today, it was way too interesting to skip!
+Kane Dypka Excellent! We'd call that a win-win!
I'm guilty of that too. Also, as far as ocd goes, I wont freak out as long as you sit on the same side.
+1
TRUE. This also happens to me when I'm watching movies or TV.
"Axis: Bold as Miking" is my favourite album by Jimi Impedance.
Isn't that the one where he does the impy dance at Woodstock?
I watch that at ohm all time…
I think what you two are doing is really changing the standard for how videos on guitar sound are done. Even as goofy as it is, this video is so thorough, using video and sound to show us what is going on, with careful explanation at each step. These videos will stand as the go-to's for how-to's for years to come! Well done, gentlemen.
+Matthew Turner ah, cheers Matt :)
I am having a few beers in the land of Oz & That Pedal Show just showed up in my subscriptions.....I am very happy to be alive
scottwillott1 Having a drink in California and feeling the same. Cheers.
scottwillott1 it's a great beer night binge watch. Welcome friend!
This is possibly the best demonstration for anyone wanting to learn about mic placement I have ever seen and I spent three years doing audio engineering at university. I spent £9000 a year and That Pedal Show are doing it better!
+Connor Godfrey Wow, thanks Connor!
It’s been two years but this is gold. Especially now I’m obsessed with mics and using multiple with my amp.
I think I've learned more watching this show than I have in the last 10 years. It's not always about technique or ability in your playing ( though I still need major help here, but that's on me to practice).
Thank you guys so much for all the info and making it digestible, and direct and fun!
Blown away. I had no idea about most of this. The differences in sound in relation to mic placement is profound.....wow.
Dan and Mick, it is very important that no one EVER hook up a PASSIVE ribbon mic to phantom power, as that will destroy the ribbon element. If one is using an ACTIVE ribbon, it requires phantom power, but none should ever confuse these two, and always know that if phantom power is switched on a mixer or a channel from a preamp, NEVER plug in a PASSIVE ribbon mic to that device or channel. A cloud lifter is often used to boost signal from a dynamic mic, say a Shure SM7 b or a passive ribbon mice, and it may require phantom power to activate the lifter, but it will not pass the 48v phantom power to the mic. Please pass the warning along, thanks.
Awesome stuff, good to see a visual and aural representation of how the positioning affects the tone, i think its even more crucial for a gainy sound. Really helpful for those of us who don't have a studio setting to test these things. BTW the soundman placing a mic on the amp head has happened to me, however a funnier one is one of my fellow guitar players was experiencing 60 cycle hum from his rig, then i watched the sound man get down to his pedalboard with his ear flush to the pedals to see which one was humming, speechless
Thanks guys. I am in the midst of a recording session in a very high profile studio in 6 months, and you solved my issue in how to mic my amp properly. I cannot thank you enough :D
+tokoulli1 our pleasure :)
This video let me understand two things:
A) I have to put more attention on how I mic my amp during my gigs;
B) Every review on TH-cam is highly influenced by micing technics (so maybe crap is not crap..);
Thank you guys! You're always great. I definitely have to buy a t-shirt.. :-)
+Daniele Rizzetto Incredible isn't it! The recording/post prod is (almost) everything. Thanks for watching!
Great video guys. I got an internship at a studio last year in an attempt to find out what to do with my life, (turns out I probably want to be an engineer) and this was very informative, encouraging, and fun to watch. Keep up the great work!
A general note for all: When using more than one mic remember to check your phase relationships gang. Especially with distance micing. (You could really hear it in this wonderful video when the dynamic and condenser were compared and summed during the distance and room micing sections) Cheers!
+Ed Pettersen Good shout Ed. We mention phase at the end. Obviously critically important to understand. Not just to make sure it's always in, but to know when it sounds cool out! Thanks for watching!
Absolutely! And one of the first things I learned as an engineer that could be helpful as well to those digging deeper (I know Dan knows this): Polarity is an electromagnetic concept. Phase is a relationship between waves. Rock on!!
YES! I'm ever so glad you mentioned phase at the end. throughout the video on the double mic'd bits I had this uneasy feeling inside that people were learning double mic'ing without learning about phase coherency! i was indeed screaming at the screen WHAT ABOUT THE PHAAAAASE!!!
+Ed Pettersen Mick knows this too.
Of course! I should have known!! g>
What I like most about both of you, and the reason I subscribed is your attitude towards life. I can see you guys are passionate about what you do and the joy, positivity, and enthusiasm can be seen in every video. Keep on rockin mate!
Thank you Caleb - the only reason we do this is because we love it. Thanks for watching!
FINALLY we(I) get to hear your playing in a "band" context!!!!!Best part of the video!!!!
I think it would be great to see a video of your ideal rigs. For example, everything from your favorite guitars to your favorite pedals to your favorite amp configuration to create your favorite tones!
Alex Church hope you’re still watching because this just happened.
Thanks guys! At last! I asked you for this couple of times and finally! I'm gonna enjoy it for sure. Cheers!
Dan, I've got to say mate, every time I watch the show I always get excited when you play. You've got so many cool licks that I keep trying to incorporate into my playing. Seriously love your playing man. Cheers for inspiring a young Queenslander! Much platonic love.
+John Patchy Millar ah, cheers John. That's what it's all about :) QUEENSLANDER!
I remember watching Glenn's Mic episode and being blown away by the impact of micing. An excellent refresher with my band heading to the studio to record soon. Great episode!
Watching you two react to one another as you played over the backing tracks was a treat.
AWESOME episode guys!! I asked a question on a video a couple of days ago regarding what Mic's you use on the amps, and you release this episode today! Amazing! Love you guys, and the show!!
+Kyle Burdy Yeah baby!
The e906 sounds great. Best of all worlds IMO. Great with cleans and OD. I bought one a few months ago and I think it's fantastic.
No that's a linear law. I think you are meaning the inverse square law (applies to photography as well) which states that if the mic distance is doubled, the sound intensity is (1/2)^2= 1/4, only one quarter of the original mic position's intensity. Thanks for a very wholesome video! Cheers
I've always had trouble getting a good dirt sound from a condenser/capacitor, but it's fantastic for cleans. Ended up settling on a sm57 for dirty and a condenser/capacitor (or both) for cleans!
And thanks for the awesome post editing!
+ Nate Col - Shure sure got the SM 57 and 58 right the first time around. All these years later and they're still in use world-wide. Basically the Strat and Les Paul of microphones.
Really depends on the mic. I use a Neumann KM140 for most everything /sometimes with a Sennheiser MD441/ and it makes the guitars sit with bass and vocals instantly.
Ibanezman03 100%!!! I'm sure a better quality mic would help, but I'm speaking mainly from a budget friendly point of view. Condensers around the same price point as an sm57 just don't cut it for higher gain sounds IMO.
Jup, definitely. Investing in 1 or 2 Neumann- pencil condensers is definitely worth it. You can use them for most everything and they are durable like a sm57.
I love the SM27. Great for just about everything and takes high SPL. I used to have a pair and used them for everything. Great close and far on guitar.
I've tried almost everything, and the one I keep coming back to is the Beyer M160 ribbon - not too close, and angle it from edge to centre of the cone to get more/less brightness.
I've been using mine for 30 years now, and it's always given me a sound which is good to incredible.
Guys! What an awesome video. This really usable advice. I don't have access to the recording software and mics you guys have so this shows me what to look for when miking my little combo amp. I use an sm57 and I've never been happy with the low-end response. I might just upgrade to the e906 after hearing this. Thanks for what you do!
+Danocaster cheers D, so glad you dig our stuff :)
Man, I love this channel. The stuff I learned from you guys have been some of the most valuable info regarding guitars that I've ever come across. You made me realize I need proper power for my pedals (which was a huge deal for me) and you also inspired me to really get my pedal board to a better level. You guys have opened me up to so many new tonal possibilities. For example, I just bought a Mesa lone star special and got it in the mail yesterday, and Mick inspired me to do so! I know you have the LSC, but that's beside the point. I never would've bought a Mesa before, and I absolutely love this amp. I guess I just want to say thanks for being so awesome. Also, I love that you're pretty much the only channel that talks about Kingsley pedals. You need to pull a few strings and get Simon to send you one of his amps! I'm on the waitlist (2.5 years!!) but I'd love to see more of his stuff in your show.
+NTfilms Thank you for such a ringing endorsement. We're very glad to have you on board - enjoy that LS! :0)
That ribbon is gutsy! I was just at a recording seminar with Mark Hornsby and Don Carr at Sweetwater here in the states specifically on this topic, and they recommended using a ribbon for the chunky low end, and a dynamic for the crisp top end. They used a Royer R121 and an SM57, and it was magic!
I'm liking the jams and backing tracks of late!
YES YES YES YES!! Haven't even watched it yet but know it's going to be a great vid. Can't wait to watch when I get home. Thank you for covering such important topics.
+SupaTravis Williams Thanks for watching - hope you enjoy the show!
Every time I think I've got my sound down and have everything I need you guys do an episode and I'm like, "ooh, I need one of those!" Great show as always.
Ohhhhhhhh it was the Room Mic! THAT'S what added all the sweetness, a bit of thickness and movement and loveliness to your show! That thing would've been solid gold for the Rotary episode...
(PS: You guys ever considered doing an episode about the Boss DS1 and variants? You've done the Tubescreamers so the DS1 seems like a logical next step...)
45:43 was a perfect demo to show how the positions work! thank you Mick and Dan! Has helped me learn a lot.
Nice Sound!!!
Im fully on board with IR now... never thought i would but it definitely improved my live sound a lot. I had tried all, very happy pangeae owner now.
+Fabio Suenaga Incredible technology, and we'd say probably better than micing if you play heavier music with a really dense mix. For our kind of thing however - very traditional guitars and vintage style amps and music - you can't beat the sound of a mic on a proper amp. Thing is with a lot of modern heavy music, it's sooooo produced in terms of compression, EQ, quantising etc etc etc, I've been to a few recording sessions with modern bands and just been astounded at how much everything is manipulated. So traditional amps and mics are just a PITA in that situation. May as well do it all digitally from the top. For roots and more vintagey sounds, not so much. In my opinion (Mick here).
Yep, VERY useful to actually HEAR the differences between different positions, different mics, etc. Thanks guys.
+E.G. Systems No worries. It was a fun one to do. (For me. Dan was a bit bored bless him. Repayment for the synth episode). :0)
Synth... :O) In the last 27 years, I've watched them come and go, but only recently seen the Fishman Triple Play (and I see the kinda Roland hex pickup still there) and though it actually seems to work, in the end I'd rather make a guitar sound crazy, and use that sound, that do Guitar to MIDI.
This has got to be one of the best videos on micing up a guitar amp ever, so helpful guys! Awesome work!
the humor guys puts this show over the top
I use a 609 too! Excellent video! It's amazing how much different just an inch off center to the cone makes!
The e906 is my personal favorite, but I really like the addition of the XY room mic. it's like an analog dry-through on a reverb pedal: you've still got your attack, but with a little extra something. Great video guys!
Very useful video! Esp. the bit at the end that show all the lead/rythm placement/panning combinations. My takeaways:
- It turns out my ears liked... a dynamic mic, right on the grill, just off axis. Surprise! But now I know *why* we all do it.
- Even better, same but also blend in a condenser a little further away.
- For a huge 70s rhythm sound: one close dynamic, one further condenser, each panned all the way L/R.
- The room x/y overheads didn't do much for me personally. But I'm sure that depends on the room.
The blues backing track sounds strikingly like John Mayer's "I'm Gonna Find Another You". Love it!
+Blake Larson Same chords, yep. :0)
Very cool video, guys, and those backing track bits were glorious. Damn, I love Friday mornings with That Pedal Show!
Still watching this but the wheely trolley mic stand is brilliant !!! So effective at demonstrating the difference in frequency range depending on mic placement.
thanks, this is exactly what I wanted. your videos have been an immense help ever since I started my 'tone journey' and after a year of playing I'm just starting to reach the point where your videos make sense. keep going guys, great stuff!
You guys should do more challenges! We love them! A most versatile board challenge would be cool. Least versatile with most pedals, most expensive, etc
Studio 1 at Abbey Road is the really big room - great for orchestras and choirs. The Sennheiser E906 DOES have a supercardioid pattern - supercardioid has a slightly tighter pattern ( heart shaped .. or squashed kidney if you like ) but also picks up from the rear of the mic in a very tight pattern. ) Excellent, REALLY excellent show !!
Where they recorded "Shine On You Crazy Diamond". They stuck Gilmour's amps in there and moved the mic's to the back of the studio to get that sound of a huge space. Or so I believe....
great episode guys! very informative. look forward to the show each week, love it. thumbs up from down under!
+Ryan Hilton Cheers Ryan!
I'm so happy to know you have been using the Sennheiser E-906. It is a secret weapon. Everyone talks about the Shure SM57, which is great, BUT the E-906 sounds just amazing to my ears. It's my number one mic for guitars by a long shot.
+David Morley Yep, Mick here. Use it for pretty much everything. I love that mic. (Or at least I trust it/it's easy to carry and use etc etc.) Thanks for watching!
Thanks for your videos!
Good demo of miking techniques. The three microphones are "worlds apart" from each other. I've found that a 57 or the awesome e906 (my favourite) work for every electric guitar recording and live situation. They always help the guitar find its place in the mix.
+Lawrence Gillespie Absolutely. Presumably why they're so blimmin popular. Thanks for watching Lawrence!
They're so blumlein popular :-)
This episode bears a repeat while routed through the studio monitors or stereo speakers. Good episode, thanks guys!
+Brad R Absolutely. Headphones is where you really hear it all.. cheers!
Brilliant job gentleman- an excellent tutorial on mics, mic positioning, and an overall basic approach to getting tones from an amp.
Thank you as always for your dedication to the instrument.
+Francis Gori Cheers Francis - we appreciate the appreciation!
Great playing as always to both of you. Thanks very much for showing the context of the mics in a mix at the end. Lots of helpful stuff again this week, keep up the good work.
Man!! Every single time that Dan plays that Tele in these videos is like "Damn, that Tele sounds GLORIOUS!!"
Finally someone agrees with me with the capacitor/ condenser mix up.
SM57 has pretty much been my go-to and haven't had any issues. Love 'em
+Jon Gauthier You and most of the rest of the world Jon. It's a classic for good reason!
That Pedal Show Don't I know it! Keep up the good work, Fellas! Love your show.
Getting back to this video and didn’t read the description before, the SOS article is pretty good thanks!
Thumbs up before watching! I know that cab sims and IRs are great and simple but for me miking and its challenges are part of the fun (no deadlines looming probably help :). Great episode!
+Kari Abspoel Quite. Can sims are fantastic tools. Mics are instruments.
That Pedal Show that is a really good way to put it - you can "play" a great mic really badly and vice versa
on a side note, the drive sound with "more" you're using around 14:40 it's killer!
Thanks a million guys! Very helpfull
The guys at Tiny Desk often use those long, thin style mics, though I'm sure a modern equivalent, and I've always been impressed with the quality of the recordings.
Edit: The section where you wheeled the mic across the face of the speaker has to be one of the best demonstrations I've seen for this. Great job! It truly shows why I've always preferred slightly off-center.
Those are shotgun condenser mics, used a lot in video recording because they're suuuuuper directional. They're specially designed to eliminate off-axis sound (using cool science and stuff), so they really only capture what they're pointing at and nothing else. That makes them very useful for recording in a noisy environment like an outdoor interview, a movie set (one mic pointing at whomever's talking) or a band with a singer that's really close to other noisy instruments. :-)
This is very helpful, detailed and informative on an incredibly important and overlooked aspect of guitar playing and recording. Very well done
Brilliant idea having the Sennheiser on a moving caddy to demonstrate going inside/outside of the speaker cone.
Thank you for covering this topic! I've been discovering how touchy any variable can be, can be very frustrating. This helps!
Thanks for another great video guys! I've never miced an amp, nor tried to learn about it either so what you've show me here will be very helpful in knowing what I want in the micing section of my two notes cab! It wasn't that cab sim video that is incoming someday, but it's still massively applicable!
I have watched a lot of your videos. I enjoy them all, but this one was outstanding for being so informative and eye opening! As always, thanks for sharing your insights!
+mesadurham Thank you!
Yes I've finally found the mythical episode where a loop is used to A/B test something!!! Just kidding, love you guys!
A very cool special effect microphone that is relatively affordable is the Placid Audio Copperphone. I have one and it's great for an old school, lo-fi sound. Green Day uses them live, I think. Be sure to check those out if you want to add a unique texture to your mic collection.
I also recommend the Cascade Fathead ribbon mics for budget-oriented players. Works especially well blended with a 609 or SM57.
For recording with only 1 mic, I personally really dig the sound of a ribbon mic spaced back from the amp a bit so that the opposite side of the figure 8 pattern picks up some room sound. Royer 121, Neumann U87 or Shure SM7B on the front with SM57 in the open back of my combo has been great in the studio. Can't go wrong with an SM57 or e609 live, the 609 is super convenient.
For everyone getting started: a MXL Cube is a great cheap mic to start with. For my band's demos I use it for guitars and vocals. Does a great job
This video is super helpful I really appreciate you guys literally would be lost without you guys!
50minutes of tangents and nerding out😂I love you guys!
Absolutely the best mic placement tutorial video ever! Thank you so much.
+David Rohland Wow, thanks David - glad you find it useful!
A Joe's Garage reference? And the playing over the backing tracks section was awesome!
Will you perhaps make an update-video to this one?
I understand you use ribbon mics these days.
Also some tips on how to get rid of (mitigate) the "hum" and "sis" and "sshhhh" sounds that come out of the amp.
Cheers!
Hello! We do use ribbons sometimes, but mostly it’s large diaphragm capacitors these days. All of those things you mention can be mitigated to a large extent by mic position. Also be aware that some of the hiss and hum might come from your mic preamp (or input on your interface) being turned up very loud. To check this, turn the amp off and listen to what’s coming in, turning the preamp/input gain on the mic pre/interface up and down. Some of them can be really noisy. Good luck!
Great vid guys, brings back memories of staying at my mate Pete Harwood's place (Guitarist of Morpheus Rising and guitar tech to Steve Rothery). He'd just got his mic set up on his cab exactly right and was very wary any time my slightly drunken form swayed towards the mics as it had taken him weeks to get them just right. He had a ribbon mic and an SM57. The mixed sound from the two was HUGE! Thinking about investing in the Senneheiser you use here, and possibly a cheaper ribbon mic, to experiment with recording my lovely little Epiphone Century Amp. Maybe next month though ;)
What a great episode! I've always used dynamic mics, because I was told they were the best long ago. Now hearing this episode I really want a ribbon mic!!!!!
+Brandon Lewis Yeah, we're going to be using that mic a LOT more. Needs to be closer to the centre of the speaker for the sizzle, but man it's good! E906 has a nice bit of pronounced upper mid - great for live - but sometimes you don't want that. Thanks for watching!
Good fun infotainment and a relevant topic to the vast majority of guitarists. Well done as always!
Best explanation out there guys thanks, simple and concise!
+Roy Alvalle cheers Roy
That Pedal Show if TH-cam had two thumbs up I'd hit that!
I use a Royer R-121 80% of the time, and an SM57 20% of the time.
I find the R121 allows lots of track stacking for guitar orchestra effects, and the SM57 for a more in-your-face sounds for solos or melodic line overdubs.
Really great show guys! Have totally wondered about this concept before and never cared about looking into it. This whole channel seems to be about how to understand sound and how to understand the nuances and manipulate them so you can get what you want in any given circumstance. As a gigging bass player I feel this is soooo important for room sound. I can't wait o have my next gig in a boomy-ass room so I can show it who's boss...only to have it eat me alive for the first set. One day...
+Aaron Carothers Hahah!!! Thanks for the kind words Aaron. That's exactly it. We're all a little bit obsessed with wondering what gear is 'best' and sometimes that can feel like the point of the show. But as you say, it's really not - it's about just trying to have an arsenal of knowledge and experience that can get you to the best place for you personally. That's what we're here for! Thanks for watching!
with the amount of stuff you guys cover, i'm surprised there hasn't been one on what TYPES of guitars you both prefer. as in would you rather have a strat or a tele? or a prs vs a les paul. Or talking about what kind of stuff you liked when you were younger vs what you actually use now to gig/record :) keep it up, you guys
Thank you a million times for making this amazing resource.
Love you guys!
16:24 "Generally speaking... generally speaker-ing.." Haha! THat was amazing Mick! :D
Thanks for this guys! Very very helpful
Super interesting video! As a guitarist who's done lot's of playing and very little recording, this was a really informative eye-opening video.
Great stuff! I've read that Jimmy Page actually mic-d up his amps from a different room(very ambient room) in parts of Zep ll to get a natural echo.
you guys... cardioid: heart-shaped :) cardioid, cardio, cardiac... Thanks for this show, btw. I was just starting to set up my own little recording area; fortuitous timing!
TL;DR: Use YOUR ears and trust YOUR ears. Also try refining/checking mic placement with a high gain sound; the added harmonic content makes the phase and room response more audible.
48:28 As far as I understand it, that "powers of three" rule works for direct sound to the mic; which does indeed make it a great 'rule of thumb' approach for any room. Something that is harder to account for is the reflections in the room that the mic may also pick up. The room reflections could make the distant mic accentuate things that you don't like, even though when they are combined, the
If you have a depth you like, One trick is to solo the room and try adjusting the HEIGHT of the microphone. And be extreme with it. Put it at shoe level, put it as high as your stand can go, and everywhere in between until you get a room sound you want. Then combine it with the close mic and move the room mic a few inches closer or farther away until they are in phase. You likely wont need to move it around too much unless you changed the height dramatically.
Another note of caution is that this does not work with room mics that are relatively close to the cabinet, you have to be at least 4 or 5 feet away.
Finally! How to choose a cabinet? How to choose speakers?
Watching back. Just starting to record. Helpful.
YES! I've been waiting for this one. Cheers, lads!
I liked listening to the clean sound as you backed away with the condenser mic. It made me wonder if people have ever literally walked around the room while recording to do manual phasing.
Also, a great technique in setting up the room mic is to use an oscilloscope to test for phase coherence. Because although moving the mic further away from the source will reduce the amount of dbs reaching the capsule, this can be slightly reversed if the microphones are in phase with each other.
absolutely the best one of these kinds of videos I've seen, and in my years of semi-pro recording and live sound (as in I make money but not my primary income) I've seen a LOT of these kinds of videos. You did a killer job at making the right points to get someone thinking about mics and placement correctly.
The only thing I would have added is that mics and placement are massively important, but they can only record what's coming out of the amp, and sometimes what sounds good when you're getting "your sound" sounds terrible for a mic that's super close. So I like to think of it as my "live sound" vs my "recording sound" and really my recording sound is just me trying to recreate what the player loves about their live sound. Don't try to sound good in the room, try to sound good in the recording!
High fives to the both of you for a great and entertaining video that I'm definitely going to share around.
+Sven Johnson Thank you Sven, very kind of you to say and god advice too. Thanks for watching!
I'd love to see an episode on getting good tones from difficult to use pedals like the fuzz factory!
Great episode. I think people often forget the power of panning in a mix.
Very helpful guys, especially since I'm getting ready to jump into the world of recording
.
Thank you guys for doing this. I'm about to start recording with my new amp and I'm totally new at all this. I appreciate the advice.
+JKM395 Excellent - good luck to you. If we may offer a tiny bit of advice... try not to sweat it. Stick the mic a few inches off the grille somewhere just off the centre of the cone. Then concentrate on playing. :0)
good stuff. Not boring to me at all. Great to hear insight on things like this. would love a video on different speaker comparison. V30, Creamback 65m, alnico cream etc shootout.
One of your best guys! Well done.
Killer episode. Great job guys. It was super informative. Close up, I found the ribbon to muddy and the condenser too spiky. The dynamic was just right. Somehow it's mids we're the most pleasant. The combo of close dynamic, slightly off center with the condenser far off was the best sound today. Killer tone.
+Frank N Hey Frank. The condenser and Ribbon sound very different depending on placement. Same as the dynamic. So they weren't presented in their perfect lights in that demo. We'll be using the Delta quite a bit more in coming weeks. :9)