I would always take the 10 4 5 spot if going first (securing Brick, Wheat, & Lumber) then develop to the left towards the Wheat Port. (If the Wheat Port is blocked, moving down to the 9 5 12 spot secures the required Sheep) There is plenty of high value Ore available for 2nd round... much of it attached with Sheep, thus no need to secure Ore in the 1st round. There are clear lines available towards the Sheep, Wheat, & ? Ports... allowing future creation of Resources. EDIT - Commenting on 1st board
@@Treeckosaurus I think if you take 5/4/10 someone else will definitely take the 10/9/5, then you can't get the 9 of sheep. If you build on 5/4/10 the 9 of sheep can only be combined with the 5 of lumber and the 12 of ore. So there is a decent chance that spot won't be taken and you can get to the 9 of sheep 10 of clay on the wheat port, or else the 9/5/12 if someone beats you to the wheat port.
In the second example, 3rd pick should take the 6-9-2 and monopolise the Ore market, pointing road inwards to get a 3/1 port. Then take whichever of the 8-5-10 or 4-8-3 is open. This gives all resources, with strong hybrid OWS possibilities, a free road, and decent port access.
1st pick: 8-5-10, road downwards (if you go right, you get cutoff by 6-5-9 with free road) 2nd pick: 3-4-8, road downwards (4-11-5 will always be taken) 3rd pick: 4-11-5, road towards 9-4 spot (9-4 spot will be free, and you're very likely to get a good Wood/Brick spot in second round) 4th pick: 6-2-9, road towards wood port (best wheat on the board, wood port strong with 5th pick) 5th pick: 5-6-9, road towards 10-9 (strongest production spot in the game, storng road production and wood port fuel) 6th pick: 5-8-10, road upwards (strong production spot, completing all resources, free road for the 9-4 settlement, can battle for longest road and largest army) 7th pick: 11-3-6, road to the right (don't want to race 3rd pick to the 9-10-11 as yuou have weaker wood/brick, and the 6-11-12 should be free but may be able to sneak to sheep port) 8th pick: 8-4-3, road towards the sheep port (need sheep above all else, strong classic OWS, need to trade aggresively so that 2nd pick doesn't beat you to the sheep port)
I see you're very OWS reliant, which is not a bad thing. The Longest Road strategy may be just as strong though, if played well. To me, the 6/5/9 is the second pick. 5/8/10 as 3rd. And 4th position wants to play defensively, while taking 8/4/3 (ore) imo.
@@Treeckosaurus good point. Is there a general rule of thumb for when picking an OWS spot is bad? Less than 8 points of production, etc? I find myself taking something like 4(sheep)-9(wheat) 11(ore) as my first settlement spot but I don't seem to have enough production
If there's a 13-point spot on the board, you don't want to go lower than 11 production points just to get an OWS set-up. Every rule in Catan has exceptions though. In auto-matches it's generally smart to play with OWS, but in high-level matches like in King of Catan, OWS players get targeted a lot, so then you'd have to look at way more variables than production and efficiency.
@@Treeckosaurus thanks! I'm in the habit of taking OWS spots regardless of the board state, I probably need to practice alternate strategies and consider things a bit more
White (1st position) Blue (2nd position) Red (3rd position) and Green (4th position) for 3rd board 1st Pick 6 5 9 (Wood Ore Brick) It's the highest production spot with 3 different resources, and I don't think you can get locked out of wheat and even then, I feel like you'll find another strong spot as well. I would point the road down to the super strong 9 10 (Brick Wheat) 3:1 port spot. 2nd Pick 8 5 10 (Ore Ore Wheat) What can I say, the Ore and Wheat spot is super strong for city and dev card material. I'd say this has good settlement outs. The only problem is that the wheat is a bit low, but it technically will be a strong OWS setup still depending on settlement outs. I wouldn't risk racing white to the 9 10. So, I would point down towards the 3:1 doubling the 8 ore and 10 wheat. 3rd Pick 8 5 10 (Sheep Brick Wood) It's also another strong Wood and Brick spot and has the highest production besides what 1st and 2nd position took. Especially since the brick is rare on this board, and this is the only last strong brick spot. It also has strong settlement outs such as the 6 9 2 (Wood Wheat Ore), 5 4 11 (Ore Sheep Wheat), and the 8 4 3 (Ore Sheep Wheat). I would point up towards both 3:1 ports since pointing other directions will get blocked off most likely. 4th Pick 6 9 2 (Wood Wheat Ore), and 5th Pick 8 4 3 (Ore Sheep Wheat). I'd say this is the best chance green can win with those setups. Mainly because it does well for a Hybrid OWS Setup instead of a weak 5 resource setup play. Green has heavy dev card city game. Note: I'd like to mention that it is similar with it if you take 6 9 2 and 5 4 11 instead. But I feel like losing both 3:1 ports is not worth it. For the 6 9 2, I would point downwards towards the wheat port and the 9 4. I feel like directly to the coast wood port would be weak since you double on the 2 ore, and for the 8 3 4, I'd obviously point downwards towards both 3:1 ports. 6th Pick 5 4 11 (Ore Sheep Wheat) This makes red have all 5 resources with those setups. It has decent OWS and good wood and brick material. I would point left since you need more wheat because you only have 2 points of wheat. And red would know that blue and white would not lock the 9 4 and the 9 10 11 for red. 7th Pick 6 3 11 (Wood Brick Sheep) While the other spots such as the 8 4 3 (Sheep Sheep Brick) can work. I feel like the 6 3 11 setup has the best chance for white to win, especially with a free road and 5 resources. I would obviously point upwards to expand to the 4 11 sheep port, or if the 8 4 3 (Sheep Sheep Brick) spot if it is left open for sure to play a strong OWS and become flexible. 8th Pick (This was the hardest decision to come up with the best setup at this point). But anyways, here's what I chose. 9 10 11 (Wheat Wood Wheat) This gives you strong wheat to match with ore since no wheat = defeat usually. I wouldn't really choose the 8 4 3 (Sheep Sheep Brick) if blue pointed upwards towards the sheep port. I would most likely point downwards, racing towards the 9 4 (Wheat Sheep). If it was table talk, what you could do is to ask extorsions for red to not point downwards, but to point right. You could also ask blue to not race you towards the 8 4 3 (Sheep Sheep Brick) if you give nonblocks or something like that. Otherwise, I'd point downwards. While it might seem dangerous. Red started with Ore, Wheat and Sheep for the second settlement pick. So, it could work better to race there since it destroys red's game by having low wheat. What did you think about my picks?
I would prefer the ore-wheat 8/5/10 as first, because I expect there to be multiple players competing for the Longest Road on this board. With less competition for the Largest Army, I'd rather play for that. 6/5/9 is never wrong of course. Outside of that, I like your picks.
@@Treeckosaurus Thanks, it's cool to have opinions like this my man, I would think Largest Army would be competitive way more in that board since brick is rare to get.
@@Treeckosaurus Also, thanks for posting again. I don't want you to miss out on a lot for your channels about Catan. Like I mean, we all care about catan channels like yours though. Anyways, do you actually want me to place out other boards in this video?
Something I forgot to mention in the video is my doubt about whether I should or shouldn't add (background) music to the video. What are your thoughts on this?
Spoiler alert; best guess for puzzle at the end: Paired: 1&8; 2&7; 3&6; 4&5 1: 8/5/10 double ore wheat too good to pass up; points road down 2: 6/5/9 gets ore and highest production spot on board; points road down to build on 9/10/ore port so getting wheat. 3: 4/3/8(ore) has to take this or player 4 will; good ore low wheat sheep; points road down 4: 11/4/5 takes last remaining ore spot; points road towards 9 wheat; (there will be a spot to build on later) 5: 5/8/10(wood); points road up; has balanced hand 6: 2/6/9 points road towards wood port; strengthens wheat in his hand; prevents player 2 from having wood port strategy; starts with ore in hand 7: 8/4/3(brick) has to take this spot or player 1 will; points road up as player 1 will block path to sheep port. (alternative is 10/9/11; but then has no sheep) 8: 3/11/6 points road up; on first turn uses road in hand to point to sheep port; once built on sheep port has a very strong o/w/s set up. Feedback welcome.
Hey Haba, thanks for filling this out. As promised, I've looked at the picks as well. I think you did an excellent job with the first 5 picks , road-placements and especially the reasoning behind it! For the 6th pick my initial thought was the 6/9/2 as well, but I changed it to 6/3/11 (sheep) and road to the sheep-port. I think both picks work fine with the 8/3/4 and I think you can make it more difficult for 7th and 8th pick by placing on the 6/3/11, because one of them will lack sheep and/or brick/wheat. My 7th pick would be either the 8/3/4 or the 6/9/2, because I prefer more production over necessarily having all 5 resources. Both picks are fine for your own game and I think picking the 8/3/4 makes it more difficult for first position (8th pick). Point upwards indeed. The 8th pick would either be the 10/3/11 or the 6/9/2. Picking up some brick-gain is probably worth it. I find the ore-wood-wheat combi very difficult to win with and you have good odds of building on a triple-hex (6/9/2 or 10/9/2) with your third settlement. So I think I would go with the 10/3/11. I like your placements a lot and if you can do placements like this you will win a ton against human players as well! Cheers
@@Treeckosaurus Thanks Treeck; yeah, 6th pick was the tricky one; I like your alternative strategy to mine. I can reason this sort of stuff out fairly well given enough time, but it's much harder in a CU game with a time limit working :)
Aha. It works; at least against the AI on CU. Thank you. Just need to test it in real life now. What software do you use to draw the circles? I've used Paint 3D but it is a bit cumbersome. And I would suggest no background music. Did you ever post your solution for the puzzle at the end?
I use Movavi Video Editor (paid around €40), the circles are just images with a transparent background. In later videos, more specifically King of Catan, I use animated circles from the video editor.
5:02 I wouldn’t take the 5-9-10 because I think it’s too risky. You need wheat and ore for your second pick and there is only one wheat and ore spot that other players will take. No wheat = defeat and No ore = 7 points score But this is still a difficult map for 1st position :)
I agree. Back then, I focused on total production wthout giving much thought to the value of individual resources (extra value for ore/wheat). Although I disagree with the sayings "no wheat = defeat" and "no ore = 7 point score", I agree they have more value than the other resources, because cities and devs are really strong.
I seriously don't get how you think first position made a good choice in the first game. He was left with massive excess lumber, tons of ore with no wheat, no useful ports that are easily (road settle) accessible, and the only wheat he can really get is an 11 wheat, after he has already settled. Compare that to if he took 8/10/3 and started off with easy access to the sheep port (for which he would have 8 points of production when he reaches it) and which would encourage other players to make placements that are less likely to hog all of the massive wheat production.
This video is more about the system than about making the perfect play every time, because consistency is key. Outside of that, 5/9/10 is very reasonable here and it's unlikely you can get a good wheat-spot on your way back. 8/4/3 needs either a high producing non-wheat spot or a good wheat spot to be winning.
Here is my result when playing with myself on the placement. Red starts: Red : 6 Forest, 9 Hill, 5 Mountain;Road 10 Grain field Green : 8 Pasture, 5 Hill, 10 Forrest;Road 3 Hill White : 8 Mountain, 5 Mountain, 10 Grain field;Road 9 Hill Blue : 8 Pasture, 4 Pasture, 3 Hill, Road 11 Pasture Blue : 10 Forrest, 9 Grain field, 11 Grain field, Road 4 Pasture White : 2 Mountain, 6 Forrest, 9 Grain field; Road Desert Green : 8 Mountain, 4 Pasture, 3 Grain field;Road desert Red : 4 Pasture, 11 Pasture, Sheep haven;Road to water at 11 Maybe not automated but definitly possible. Didn't watch after the challenge thing... and skipped most parts before :D Sry
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I would always take the 10 4 5 spot if going first (securing Brick, Wheat, & Lumber) then develop to the left towards the Wheat Port. (If the Wheat Port is blocked, moving down to the 9 5 12 spot secures the required Sheep) There is plenty of high value Ore available for 2nd round... much of it attached with Sheep, thus no need to secure Ore in the 1st round. There are clear lines available towards the Sheep, Wheat, & ? Ports... allowing future creation of Resources.
EDIT - Commenting on 1st board
It's a solid option. What makes the 5/4/10 better than the 8/4/10 in your opinion?
@@Treeckosaurus I think if you take 5/4/10 someone else will definitely take the 10/9/5, then you can't get the 9 of sheep. If you build on 5/4/10 the 9 of sheep can only be combined with the 5 of lumber and the 12 of ore. So there is a decent chance that spot won't be taken and you can get to the 9 of sheep 10 of clay on the wheat port, or else the 9/5/12 if someone beats you to the wheat port.
In the second example, 3rd pick should take the 6-9-2 and monopolise the Ore market, pointing road inwards to get a 3/1 port. Then take whichever of the 8-5-10 or 4-8-3 is open. This gives all resources, with strong hybrid OWS possibilities, a free road, and decent port access.
Yea, I was too focused on the 5 resource set-up and having high production. I agree the 6/9/2 is a killer spot on this board.
1st pick: 8-5-10, road downwards (if you go right, you get cutoff by 6-5-9 with free road)
2nd pick: 3-4-8, road downwards (4-11-5 will always be taken)
3rd pick: 4-11-5, road towards 9-4 spot (9-4 spot will be free, and you're very likely to get a good Wood/Brick spot in second round)
4th pick: 6-2-9, road towards wood port (best wheat on the board, wood port strong with 5th pick)
5th pick: 5-6-9, road towards 10-9 (strongest production spot in the game, storng road production and wood port fuel)
6th pick: 5-8-10, road upwards (strong production spot, completing all resources, free road for the 9-4 settlement, can battle for longest road and largest army)
7th pick: 11-3-6, road to the right (don't want to race 3rd pick to the 9-10-11 as yuou have weaker wood/brick, and the 6-11-12 should be free but may be able to sneak to sheep port)
8th pick: 8-4-3, road towards the sheep port (need sheep above all else, strong classic OWS, need to trade aggresively so that 2nd pick doesn't beat you to the sheep port)
I see you're very OWS reliant, which is not a bad thing. The Longest Road strategy may be just as strong though, if played well. To me, the 6/5/9 is the second pick. 5/8/10 as 3rd. And 4th position wants to play defensively, while taking 8/4/3 (ore) imo.
@@Treeckosaurus good point. Is there a general rule of thumb for when picking an OWS spot is bad? Less than 8 points of production, etc? I find myself taking something like 4(sheep)-9(wheat) 11(ore) as my first settlement spot but I don't seem to have enough production
If there's a 13-point spot on the board, you don't want to go lower than 11 production points just to get an OWS set-up. Every rule in Catan has exceptions though. In auto-matches it's generally smart to play with OWS, but in high-level matches like in King of Catan, OWS players get targeted a lot, so then you'd have to look at way more variables than production and efficiency.
@@Treeckosaurus thanks! I'm in the habit of taking OWS spots regardless of the board state, I probably need to practice alternate strategies and consider things a bit more
White (1st position) Blue (2nd position) Red (3rd position) and Green (4th position) for 3rd board
1st Pick 6 5 9 (Wood Ore Brick) It's the highest production spot with 3 different resources, and I don't think you can get locked out of wheat and even then, I feel like you'll find another strong spot as well. I would point the road down to the super strong 9 10 (Brick Wheat) 3:1 port spot.
2nd Pick 8 5 10 (Ore Ore Wheat) What can I say, the Ore and Wheat spot is super strong for city and dev card material. I'd say this has good settlement outs. The only problem is that the wheat is a bit low, but it technically will be a strong OWS setup still depending on settlement outs. I wouldn't risk racing white to the 9 10. So, I would point down towards the 3:1 doubling the 8 ore and 10 wheat.
3rd Pick 8 5 10 (Sheep Brick Wood) It's also another strong Wood and Brick spot and has the highest production besides what 1st and 2nd position took. Especially since the brick is rare on this board, and this is the only last strong brick spot. It also has strong settlement outs such as the 6 9 2 (Wood Wheat Ore), 5 4 11 (Ore Sheep Wheat), and the 8 4 3 (Ore Sheep Wheat). I would point up towards both 3:1 ports since pointing other directions will get blocked off most likely.
4th Pick 6 9 2 (Wood Wheat Ore), and 5th Pick 8 4 3 (Ore Sheep Wheat). I'd say this is the best chance green can win with those setups. Mainly because it does well for a Hybrid OWS Setup instead of a weak 5 resource setup play. Green has heavy dev card city game. Note: I'd like to mention that it is similar with it if you take 6 9 2 and 5 4 11 instead. But I feel like losing both 3:1 ports is not worth it. For the 6 9 2, I would point downwards towards the wheat port and the 9 4. I feel like directly to the coast wood port would be weak since you double on the 2 ore, and for the 8 3 4, I'd obviously point downwards towards both 3:1 ports.
6th Pick 5 4 11 (Ore Sheep Wheat) This makes red have all 5 resources with those setups. It has decent OWS and good wood and brick material. I would point left since you need more wheat because you only have 2 points of wheat. And red would know that blue and white would not lock the 9 4 and the 9 10 11 for red.
7th Pick 6 3 11 (Wood Brick Sheep) While the other spots such as the 8 4 3 (Sheep Sheep Brick) can work. I feel like the 6 3 11 setup has the best chance for white to win, especially with a free road and 5 resources. I would obviously point upwards to expand to the 4 11 sheep port, or if the 8 4 3 (Sheep Sheep Brick) spot if it is left open for sure to play a strong OWS and become flexible.
8th Pick (This was the hardest decision to come up with the best setup at this point). But anyways, here's what I chose. 9 10 11 (Wheat Wood Wheat) This gives you strong wheat to match with ore since no wheat = defeat usually. I wouldn't really choose the 8 4 3 (Sheep Sheep Brick) if blue pointed upwards towards the sheep port. I would most likely point downwards, racing towards the 9 4 (Wheat Sheep). If it was table talk, what you could do is to ask extorsions for red to not point downwards, but to point right. You could also ask blue to not race you towards the 8 4 3 (Sheep Sheep Brick) if you give nonblocks or something like that. Otherwise, I'd point downwards. While it might seem dangerous. Red started with Ore, Wheat and Sheep for the second settlement pick. So, it could work better to race there since it destroys red's game by having low wheat.
What did you think about my picks?
I would prefer the ore-wheat 8/5/10 as first, because I expect there to be multiple players competing for the Longest Road on this board. With less competition for the Largest Army, I'd rather play for that. 6/5/9 is never wrong of course. Outside of that, I like your picks.
@@Treeckosaurus Thanks, it's cool to have opinions like this my man, I would think Largest Army would be competitive way more in that board since brick is rare to get.
@@Treeckosaurus Also, thanks for posting again. I don't want you to miss out on a lot for your channels about Catan. Like I mean, we all care about catan channels like yours though. Anyways, do you actually want me to place out other boards in this video?
What do you mean? And, sure, go for it!
@@Treeckosaurus I meant you haven't posted for like a year
Something I forgot to mention in the video is my doubt about whether I should or shouldn't add (background) music to the video. What are your thoughts on this?
No music please. Too distracting while your explaining the strategies
Spoiler alert; best guess for puzzle at the end:
Paired: 1&8; 2&7; 3&6; 4&5
1: 8/5/10 double ore wheat too good to pass up; points road down
2: 6/5/9 gets ore and highest production spot on board; points road down to build on 9/10/ore port so getting wheat.
3: 4/3/8(ore) has to take this or player 4 will; good ore low wheat sheep; points road down
4: 11/4/5 takes last remaining ore spot; points road towards 9 wheat; (there will be a spot to build on later)
5: 5/8/10(wood); points road up; has balanced hand
6: 2/6/9 points road towards wood port; strengthens wheat in his hand; prevents player 2 from having wood port strategy; starts with ore in hand
7: 8/4/3(brick) has to take this spot or player 1 will; points road up as player 1 will block path to sheep port. (alternative is 10/9/11; but then has no sheep)
8: 3/11/6 points road up; on first turn uses road in hand to point to sheep port; once built on sheep port has a very strong o/w/s set up.
Feedback welcome.
Hey Haba, thanks for filling this out. As promised, I've looked at the picks as well. I think you did an excellent job with the first 5 picks , road-placements and especially the reasoning behind it!
For the 6th pick my initial thought was the 6/9/2 as well, but I changed it to 6/3/11 (sheep) and road to the sheep-port. I think both picks work fine with the 8/3/4 and I think you can make it more difficult for 7th and 8th pick by placing on the 6/3/11, because one of them will lack sheep and/or brick/wheat.
My 7th pick would be either the 8/3/4 or the 6/9/2, because I prefer more production over necessarily having all 5 resources. Both picks are fine for your own game and I think picking the 8/3/4 makes it more difficult for first position (8th pick). Point upwards indeed.
The 8th pick would either be the 10/3/11 or the 6/9/2. Picking up some brick-gain is probably worth it. I find the ore-wood-wheat combi very difficult to win with and you have good odds of building on a triple-hex (6/9/2 or 10/9/2) with your third settlement. So I think I would go with the 10/3/11.
I like your placements a lot and if you can do placements like this you will win a ton against human players as well!
Cheers
@@Treeckosaurus Thanks Treeck; yeah, 6th pick was the tricky one; I like your alternative strategy to mine.
I can reason this sort of stuff out fairly well given enough time, but it's much harder in a CU game with a time limit working :)
Aha. It works; at least against the AI on CU. Thank you. Just need to test it in real life now.
What software do you use to draw the circles? I've used Paint 3D but it is a bit cumbersome.
And I would suggest no background music.
Did you ever post your solution for the puzzle at the end?
Hi Haba! I'm glad to read your comment. It's not a perfect placement strategy, but it helps with 90% of the placement decisions you make!
I use Movavi Video Editor (paid around €40), the circles are just images with a transparent background. In later videos, more specifically King of Catan, I use animated circles from the video editor.
I don't I've ever posted the solution for the puzzle haha, want to do a guess? Then I'll take a look!
5:02 I wouldn’t take the 5-9-10 because I think it’s too risky. You need wheat and ore for your second pick and there is only one wheat and ore spot that other players will take. No wheat = defeat and No ore = 7 points score
But this is still a difficult map for 1st position :)
I agree. Back then, I focused on total production wthout giving much thought to the value of individual resources (extra value for ore/wheat). Although I disagree with the sayings "no wheat = defeat" and "no ore = 7 point score", I agree they have more value than the other resources, because cities and devs are really strong.
I seriously don't get how you think first position made a good choice in the first game. He was left with massive excess lumber, tons of ore with no wheat, no useful ports that are easily (road settle) accessible, and the only wheat he can really get is an 11 wheat, after he has already settled. Compare that to if he took 8/10/3 and started off with easy access to the sheep port (for which he would have 8 points of production when he reaches it) and which would encourage other players to make placements that are less likely to hog all of the massive wheat production.
This video is more about the system than about making the perfect play every time, because consistency is key. Outside of that, 5/9/10 is very reasonable here and it's unlikely you can get a good wheat-spot on your way back. 8/4/3 needs either a high producing non-wheat spot or a good wheat spot to be winning.
Here is my result when playing with myself on the placement. Red starts:
Red : 6 Forest, 9 Hill, 5 Mountain;Road 10 Grain field
Green : 8 Pasture, 5 Hill, 10 Forrest;Road 3 Hill
White : 8 Mountain, 5 Mountain, 10 Grain field;Road 9 Hill
Blue : 8 Pasture, 4 Pasture, 3 Hill, Road 11 Pasture
Blue : 10 Forrest, 9 Grain field, 11 Grain field, Road 4 Pasture
White : 2 Mountain, 6 Forrest, 9 Grain field; Road Desert
Green : 8 Mountain, 4 Pasture, 3 Grain field;Road desert
Red : 4 Pasture, 11 Pasture, Sheep haven;Road to water at 11
Maybe not automated but definitly possible. Didn't watch after the challenge thing... and skipped most parts before :D Sry
Thanks for your response! Soon I'll make a video with my answer and why I think that should be the answer.