Given my familiarity with Ditko's independent comics as well as his personal essays the most shocking revelation in this video is Stanton's claim that Steve had a sense of humor.
Dude even had a reputation in his family as the “fun uncle” and a bit of a prankster. My favorite Ditko comics are the ones where that shines through, ha
I actually was lucky enough to meet and speak with Steve Ditko back in 2012. What surprised me most about him was his mischievous sense of humor. RIP Steve - a true legend!!!
I read an Eric Stanton comic because the naked girls and women were drawn hot, then realized that it was horribly mean incest. I never looked at his work again.
This has always been a thing with pulp entertainment. Pulp writers would write for "spicy" rags, along with westerns, adventure, science fiction, mystery, you name it. You gotta make money somehow.
@@bluemooninthedaylight8073 awhile back, i was a member of a writers' group. Some were able to make some money on various stories, but for many(like myself) it was not much. One day, one of the members told us they had sold out and we're making a ton of cash. "What are you writing?" "Lol. Porn"
It’s another anecdote, but Russ Maheras mentioned Ditko saying that he thought a big advantage to his art was that he had no set, distinctive style. I can’t help but think with the Stanton stuff that Ditko didn’t realize just how recognizable he was
I was able to recognize Ditko instantaneously when I was 12 years old. I very much disliked his art style at that time. My opinion changed a lot since then, but he IS unmistakable.
As a fan of both artists, I'm glad you made this video. I'd heard much of this before, but your take on this topic (or any other) is always welcome. I just wish I could see the Patreon version. Sigh. Anyway, well done, sir.
Thank you! I really wish I could have uploaded the uncensored version here. To my eyes, it's pretty tasteful. But I know the TH-cam bots would flag it immediately. Image-wise, there's a fair amount of difference. Otherwise, the content of the video is exactly the same. A few audio edits, but that's it.
Some *very* tangential thoughts I had while watching: ~Sweeter Gwen's "rival dom" looks very much inspired by cheesecake models of the day, like Betty Page and Tura Satana. It could've just been a common aesthetic. ~When Harry Osborn is sabotaging Peter and Gwen's assignment in lab, the monochrome green color is a neat (probably inadvertent?) foreshadowing of his becoming the Goblin. ~I'll be damned if Sweeter Gwen's abductor D'astardly did not directly inspire the look of the Purple Pie-Man from the old Strawberry Shortcake cartoon in the 80's. That resemblence is uncanny. And f**ed up. Maybe both were influenced by older film tropes. Thank you, Mr. Casavettes; I've really loved every bit of your content I've watched!
D'astardly is really just a parody of Sir Dystic (Sadistic) D'Arcy, one of the villains from the original Sweet Gwendoline fetish comics by John Willie. And Willie basically designed D'Arcy as a good-natured parody of himself.
I don't know whether its ironic or unsurprising how many legends of Superhero comics were heavily involved in BDSM: see also Joe Shuster and William Moulton Marston.
Ditko didn’t allow his family members inside his studio when they visited. Considering his religious background, I think Ditko was a bit embarrassed so he hid his involvement with Stanton.
@@leroypreston2973 steve grew up as a Byzantine catholic in his household. When he lived on his own I’m sure he moved away from that based on the things he would talk about.
@@resistancepublishing got it and thanks. Think even if he moved on to have his own beliefs through Objectivism, he still retained his family's views concerning sexuality?
Fascinating. Your episodes are always totally immersive, regardless of how the subject material may vary. Seriously, I'd love a segment where you cover the "bad girls" of kid comics, ie.: Veronica Lodge, Mayda Munny (from Richie Rich), etc. Just for shits and giggles.
also, some people have pointed out the similarities between spiderman's mask and a gimp mask maybe spiderman's design is not that uncommon nowadays, but back then it did stand out
One of the things i like the most about this channel is that it tries to be objective, other comic book youtube channels seem to have problems with their own personal biases, meanwhile SBP puts a lot of effort on being objective.
@@StrangeBrainParts Hi Strange, i really like your channel, i have a suggestion for a video, an eternal debate on the Green Goblin and Norman Osborn, mainly because both Stan and Steve had their own version of what happened but both of those versions contradict the versions of Roy Thomas (Alter Ego #50, "Rascally Roy Thomas Talks About the 1960s and Early ‘70s", 2005) and John Romita Sr (The Web-Spinner #5, "Rambling with Romita", 1966) amd it seems both creators had memory lakes on that matter and i think it could be an interesting topic for a video.
Thank you. I do try to accurately or factually look at whatever the topic may be. And when I am biased that's mentioned upfront. I don't try to hide behind excuses or rhetoric.
I was expecting some deep stuff, like extremism, maybe dogwhistles in his work, lmao As a fan of manga, anime and JP video games, I'm so used to creators I enjoy having backgrounds in adult content. Yusuke Murata of One Punch Man fame began drawing rawnchy strips for fan magazines, if I'm not mistaken, Kouta Hirano recycled a bunch of stuff from his adult doujin days in Hellsing, and Masami Obari, a respected animator in Japan, is also credited for Angel Blade (more educated people can probably bring up more examples) So many indie games and mobile gatchas hire the talent of R34 artists, and I imagine many of these artists will use the opportunity to boost their careers and get started on more "respected" works
Obari was inspired by his classmate Satoshi Urushihara to become an animator, the ladder would later be known as "the breast master" and did some animation work on the 86 transformers movie. On the other topic, its kinda sad and hypocritical how people see adult ilustrators as something to be embarrassed off, when illustrators in general are known for being horny mfs, I bet every known artist has a folder of nsfw stuff in their archives they did just for fun.
I’ve never heard of this element of Spider-Man or Ditko’s history, and I’m a lifelong Spider-Man fan. Thanks for the well researched, well written video, it’s a fascinating subject!
When I saw the title of this video, I figured you must have been talking about the Eric Stanton stuff. Although I guess it's not impossible that Steve still has a secret yet to be discovered.
Regarding undiscovered secrets, I’ve been arguing for years that Dr. Strange was a reboot of the short-lived Marvel hero Dr. Droom, from early issues of Amazing Adventures. Similar origin story and powers.
I just recently found your channel, and I've got to say that the few videos I've watched so far have been fascinating topics that go above and beyond. Great work, looking forward to your future vids and catching up on the previous ones.
Ditko wasn't the only comics artist to go down that rabbit hole. Golden Age artist Bill Ward & early African American comics artist Gene Bilbrew did a great deal of BDSM art. Archie artist Dan DeCarlo did a lot of adult cartoons for men's magazines as well.
Your research is so good. You should make a "Life after Superman" video. There's not alot of TH-cam videos covering Siegel and Shuster decline and legal battles with National and your style is fitting in that regard. Keep making videos they're so good. P. S: It's that a Roberto Bolaño reference in your forehead?
That's a very good subject! Thank you for the suggestion. As for the reference: It's playing with the notion that I am an AI voice, which some have suggested. :)
Serendipitously, I'm reading through the Eerie Archives and finding Ditko there more than I had previously realised. It's not surprising he (or other comics artists - Wally Wood would be the most obvious) did this sort of material, purely because it paid well and it was probably more easy to do than complex plots, characters with depth and so on. Another fascinating video essay, thank you.
It would be interesting if you could do a video focusing on Ditko's work at Warren Magazines. Perhaps his greatest post-Marvel work. I would say evolutionary, in that it continued his growth as an artist.
Thanks for making and sharing this video essay. Always fascinated by anything about Ditko, one of my favorite artists and comics writers of all time. Very interesting stuff. Keep up the good work.
Been paying attention of your channel for a bit now. I think that if the men worked in such close corners as they did (I have that particular Stanton book), there would have HAD to be ideas tossed around and art done for each other. It would have been a natural situation to do so. Like you said though, it is all speculation as there is no hard facts. It is a great topic.
I think it's only natural, right? Especially if you got along with someone and respected their opinion. You'd likely be asking for advice or an opinion whenever you were not too sure about what you were doing. It makes sense to anyone who's worked in a collaborative medium.
From what I vaguely remember, Ditko's response to being accused of being influenced by a "Spiderman" kids' Halloween costume (1958) for his own costume design for Spidey (1962); or working on erotiic comics with a friend and former studio mate (Stanton?); both fell along the lines of...: It's up to the accuser to PROVE it! I wonder what Mr.A would have said about this?
The kids custom was bullshit and you'd have to be blind to think it was close to any similarity. The erotic comics were a known thing even in his time.
@@dakotah7683 Have you actually seen the "Spiderman" kid costume? Because it doesn't sound like you have. The company even secured the rights with Marvel years later to do an official Spidey Halloween costume. There are quotes on various subjects that were from Ditko's essays, letters and "hearsay" comments from people he had spoken with but the latter are the least reliable due to the elasticity of human memory!
@@dakotah7683 you'd have to be blind to think there was any similarly? Really? Design-wise, the costumes are almost identical. The only real difference is the colour.
Didn't some of the early SUPERMAN artists get accused of doing Tijuana Bibles in the 40s and 50s? Usually unsigned, but they could probably pay a bar tab or two.
And now Eric Stanton would be a highly regarded artist with award-nominated books at Image with a Substack and or Patreon. There are a few Shounen Jump artists who publically started with hentai and there are examples of mangaka who do Shounen work and porn at the same time.
I love your videos. You always put out such intelligent work. As it pertains to Ditko and Stanton. They have no reason to be ashamed of the adult comics they made. And if anyone doesn't like them, then simply read something else.
If those two creators got along that well, it's more than likely that they shared a common interest in that particular subject. And although this maybe a bit of a stretch, when you think about it, Ditko's Spidey *is* a closeted persona/alter-ego of an emotionally suppressed, angry teen that dons a skin-tight, fetish-esque costume and *does* have a penchant for restraining and photographing his ops in webbing. Spiders are also considered to be "creepy" by most women according to some polls. Anyways, insightful video. Thanks.
The art Ditko did not claim, would fit in with two other comic book art that I appreciate: "Lady Death" by Brian Pulido "F.A.K.K.2" by Simon Bisley I have bought issues of "Lady Death" and Simon Bisley's hard cover "F.A.K.K.2" art. Nothing could detract from Steve Ditko's classic "Spider-Man" and "Dr.Strange" art.
Well up until now, I thought (and was even told) a long time ago, that ''Eric Stanton Was Steve Ditko'' and all Stanton art was actually by Ditko, Now seeing this, and that Ditko did pencil and ink some of Stanton's work, I can see the connection, and that my friends comment may have been more sarcasm than serious.
I'd never heard this before, but of course it makes sense. The number of prominent cartoonists who have turned their hand to this kind of content would shock the prudish, so why not Ditko? Also the quote about Ditko actually laughing warm my heart.
Whenever I see the Zodiac Killer's composite sketch, I always think it looks like Steve Ditko. Needless to say, when I saw the title of this video, I thought the secret exposed might be a much worse secret.
In the 50's & 60's comics were primarily for children & teenagers. I can see Ditko not wanting to admit, at least publicly, his involvement with such risqué &/fetishist comics. It could have severely limited his ability to get work. Also he might have gotten paid less &/not been credited since he was a "pervert" artist 🎨.
I knew this was going to be about his smut era. TBH I think it's a lot better drawn than most of the stuff you can find back then. Heck, a lot of the comic book smut tends to be barely readable even today so it's noteworthy in that respect.
I can recommend Rhymes With Lust by Matt Baker, more like an amped up Douglas Sirk movie than smut. Lots of heaving bosoms and light physical abuse, exquisitely drawn
Nice sleuthing, but the "cross-pollination" between the two seems trivial at best. I won't fault you for the click-bait-ish title. Ya gotta do watcha gotta do. Top-notch video, as always.
Some of the panels undeniably indicate that Ditko was involved in illustration of some of those spicy comic books to some extent. His art style is too recognisable.
It's really hard to say. It does appear that Ditko did, at least, ink some of that work. But then, having the same teacher and working in the same studio could easily have influenced the work of either of them to occasionally look like that of the other. In a shades of grey perspective, I think he probably did since Stanton's work was mostly just racy while the work of some contemporaries, like Ward, were downright explicit. Btw, has anyone else noticed that Kamala Khan's powers are reminiscent of Shade: The Changing Man's? LOL
Could you please provide a link to the video where Stan Lee claims that he created all of these characters and wrote all of the stories? Cus if any of this stuff exists you know that Stan Lee would make that claim and then on the seventh day he rested!
Steve Ditko was also a conservative guy, who later in life became extremely conservative. So given his disposition it's understandable that he'd be embarrassed to be associated with fetish comics.
"Ditko Shrugged" led me to think you would talk about his Objectivism. Ayn Rand's books had a weird way of giving the reader "permission" to misbehave.
If you tried to count how many artists and writers put and disguised their fetishes on their work, you have counted everyone, but like 10 people, but that's still too many people that didn't put their fetishes in their work
My bit of speculation: I wonder if Ditko would have been less reluctant to be associated with Stanton if Stanton had stuck to things like Sweeter Gwen, vs his later, more extreme work. In later years, when Ditko was doing indie work, and had his lasting rep from Spider-Man, I can't see how the past silliness of Sweeter Gwen would hurt his prospects, so I doubt financial or career reasons would be involved. But being associated with an artist who's done things like shemales dominating men, with full frontal nudity? Maybe that was a bit much.
I would say that Stanton's stuff while NSFW for its time is tame by today's standards. It being more sexy women in sexy outfits with nudity at most but nothing explicit. More softcore by today's standards and there's loads of artists who have done stuff of that level nowadays.
I believe Ditko’s collaborations with Stanton were “open secrets.” One source said that Stanton’s marriage is what ended the friendship as Steve thought Eric was making a big mistake. No other evidence to support that but one has to wonder if Ditko might have had an element of misogyny.
Man, now that I'm famous, I hope nobody finds out I did cheap smut and erotica on the side. Man, wouldn't it be great to discover they did cheap smut and erotica in addition to their regular work? I'm glad times have changed, and creating adult content isn't *as* career-wrecking as it used to be.
This is nothing new and wasn't much of a secret at all. It was a known fact he worked with Stanton and was a decent friend of his for some time. It was most likely done as a favor.
Honestly, it seems like Ditko's involvement is limited at most and more of a favor for a friend than anything else. Which honestly, I'm glad Ditko didn't go down that road, not because I'm a snob (far from it), but because I feel like ditko's style doesn't really mesh well with nsfw material. NSFW is best when it's pretty and soft, even when portraying hardcore kinks, and Ditko's style is way too off kilter and weird to be a good fit. Plus, I never seen him draw a woman's face that was appealing to look at.
Amazing how insanely bold & creative that stuff was & still looks 100X better than the absolute trash the current (2024) comic artists shovel as “modern”. Love how all the girls were absolute femme fatales & most of the men were bizarre weirdo’s. Lolz! That stuff is GOLD! Modern artist (comics) suck!
Despite all of this, everything that we know about Ditko (never married, no kids, no known romantic interests) seems to suggest that he may have been asexual.
Given my familiarity with Ditko's independent comics as well as his personal essays the most shocking revelation in this video is Stanton's claim that Steve had a sense of humor.
Ha ha ha. Go figure.
Hahahahahahhaha
Dude even had a reputation in his family as the “fun uncle” and a bit of a prankster. My favorite Ditko comics are the ones where that shines through, ha
I actually was lucky enough to meet and speak with Steve Ditko back in 2012. What surprised me most about him was his mischievous sense of humor. RIP Steve - a true legend!!!
I read an Eric Stanton comic because the naked girls and women were drawn hot, then realized that it was horribly mean incest. I never looked at his work again.
You've probably got the best comics channel on youtube. You deserve way more subscribers.
Thank you very much! One day this channel will grow up and get more subscribers. Maybe.
Legendary science fiction writer Robert Silverberg wrote many spicy novels under a pseudonym in the 50s and 60s. The pay was better. 🤷♂️
This has always been a thing with pulp entertainment. Pulp writers would write for "spicy" rags, along with westerns, adventure, science fiction, mystery, you name it. You gotta make money somehow.
@@bluemooninthedaylight8073 awhile back, i was a member of a writers' group. Some were able to make some money on various stories, but for many(like myself) it was not much.
One day, one of the members told us they had sold out and we're making a ton of cash.
"What are you writing?"
"Lol. Porn"
Gotta have a side hussle, ya dig
Forrest Ackerman as well
It’s another anecdote, but Russ Maheras mentioned Ditko saying that he thought a big advantage to his art was that he had no set, distinctive style. I can’t help but think with the Stanton stuff that Ditko didn’t realize just how recognizable he was
If true, that lack of self-awareness totally tracks.
I was able to recognize Ditko instantaneously when I was 12 years old. I very much disliked his art style at that time. My opinion changed a lot since then, but he IS unmistakable.
Thanks for covering this unsung hero of comics. Your videos always make my day. Keep up the good work, sir.
Thank you! I will continue to make them as long there are people like yourself watching them.
unsung hero -- presumably you're referring to Eric Stanton
@@noneofyourbusiness4616 hopefully
As a fan of both artists, I'm glad you made this video. I'd heard much of this before, but your take on this topic (or any other) is always welcome. I just wish I could see the Patreon version. Sigh. Anyway, well done, sir.
Thank you! I really wish I could have uploaded the uncensored version here. To my eyes, it's pretty tasteful. But I know the TH-cam bots would flag it immediately. Image-wise, there's a fair amount of difference. Otherwise, the content of the video is exactly the same. A few audio edits, but that's it.
Some *very* tangential thoughts I had while watching:
~Sweeter Gwen's "rival dom" looks very much inspired by cheesecake models of the day, like Betty Page and Tura Satana. It could've just been a common aesthetic.
~When Harry Osborn is sabotaging Peter and Gwen's assignment in lab, the monochrome green color is a neat (probably inadvertent?) foreshadowing of his becoming the Goblin.
~I'll be damned if Sweeter Gwen's abductor D'astardly did not directly inspire the look of the Purple Pie-Man from the old Strawberry Shortcake cartoon in the 80's. That resemblence is uncanny. And f**ed up. Maybe both were influenced by older film tropes.
Thank you, Mr. Casavettes; I've really loved every bit of your content I've watched!
I hope this is true, Strawberry Shortcake always gave me the creeps.
"hope this is true"😂😂 For some reason I find that really funny!
D'astardly is really just a parody of Sir Dystic (Sadistic) D'Arcy, one of the villains from the original Sweet Gwendoline fetish comics by John Willie. And Willie basically designed D'Arcy as a good-natured parody of himself.
This is the absolute best comic book related channel in the planet. I love your focus on creators.
Thank you very much! I appreciate that.
Okay firstly -- you have the *most absolutely perfect* voice to recite the old mantra, "Viewer discretion is advised."
Hah! I am available, if anyone wants me to record warnings for their videos. :)
I don't know whether its ironic or unsurprising how many legends of Superhero comics were heavily involved in BDSM: see also Joe Shuster and William Moulton Marston.
You are the best in comic history and commentary.
Thank you very much!
Man what a deep cut. I’m so glad I came across your channel. Keep it up!
Thank you. I'll keep making them if you keep watching. :)
Now THIS is the quality content I subscribed for
Ditko didn’t allow his family members inside his studio when they visited. Considering his religious background, I think Ditko was a bit embarrassed so he hid his involvement with Stanton.
What was his family's religious background?
Was it Presbyterian, methodist,catholic, lutheran, mormon, what?
@@leroypreston2973 steve grew up as a Byzantine catholic in his household. When he lived on his own I’m sure he moved away from that based on the things he would talk about.
@@resistancepublishing got it and thanks. Think even if he moved on to have his own beliefs through Objectivism, he still retained his family's views concerning sexuality?
And/or wouldn't want them to know he worked on smut?
Fascinating. Your episodes are always totally immersive, regardless of how the subject material may vary. Seriously, I'd love a segment where you cover the "bad girls" of kid comics, ie.: Veronica Lodge, Mayda Munny (from Richie Rich), etc. Just for shits and giggles.
You know, that's not a bad idea! Thank you for the suggestion.
Thank you for making this video. Any look into the great Steve Ditko is always appreciated.
Sounds like he should have been roommates with Marston and giving ideas on Wonder Woman.
I'm glad you are covering this one
I remember hearing about Ditko's "true origins" years ago in a podcast but not many people on YT talk about it
also, some people have pointed out the similarities between spiderman's mask and a gimp mask
maybe spiderman's design is not that uncommon nowadays, but back then it did stand out
man i love this channel so much.
This channel loves you right back.
One of the things i like the most about this channel is that it tries to be objective, other comic book youtube channels seem to have problems with their own personal biases, meanwhile SBP puts a lot of effort on being objective.
@@StrangeBrainParts Hi Strange, i really like your channel, i have a suggestion for a video, an eternal debate on the Green Goblin and Norman Osborn, mainly because both Stan and Steve had their own version of what happened but both of those versions contradict the versions of Roy Thomas (Alter Ego #50, "Rascally Roy Thomas Talks About the 1960s and Early ‘70s", 2005) and John Romita Sr (The Web-Spinner #5, "Rambling with Romita", 1966) amd it seems both creators had memory lakes on that matter and i think it could be an interesting topic for a video.
Thanks for the suggestion. I will see what I can see.
Thank you. I do try to accurately or factually look at whatever the topic may be. And when I am biased that's mentioned upfront. I don't try to hide behind excuses or rhetoric.
I do love rabbit holes and looks into obscure history. Great video as always
I was expecting some deep stuff, like extremism, maybe dogwhistles in his work, lmao
As a fan of manga, anime and JP video games, I'm so used to creators I enjoy having backgrounds in adult content. Yusuke Murata of One Punch Man fame began drawing rawnchy strips for fan magazines, if I'm not mistaken, Kouta Hirano recycled a bunch of stuff from his adult doujin days in Hellsing, and Masami Obari, a respected animator in Japan, is also credited for Angel Blade (more educated people can probably bring up more examples)
So many indie games and mobile gatchas hire the talent of R34 artists, and I imagine many of these artists will use the opportunity to boost their careers and get started on more "respected" works
Obari was inspired by his classmate Satoshi Urushihara to become an animator, the ladder would later be known as "the breast master" and did some animation work on the 86 transformers movie. On the other topic, its kinda sad and hypocritical how people see adult ilustrators as something to be embarrassed off, when illustrators in general are known for being horny mfs, I bet every known artist has a folder of nsfw stuff in their archives they did just for fun.
I’ve never heard of this element of Spider-Man or Ditko’s history, and I’m a lifelong Spider-Man fan. Thanks for the well researched, well written video, it’s a fascinating subject!
Thank you! I thought it was interesting too. I mean, the history. Not necessarily the video I put together. :)
@@StrangeBrainParts Don’t sell yourself short, you managed to make a video that includes Spider-Man history AND BDSM, that’s an achievement!
Admittedly, it's not something that comes up in Spidey's history. :)
I have that Sweeter Gwen book, and honestly, I thought of it principally as a comedy. I remember it being suggestive, but not explicit.
Well this ain't gonna show up in Beyond the Spiderverse.
....dammit
When I saw the title of this video, I figured you must have been talking about the Eric Stanton stuff. Although I guess it's not impossible that Steve still has a secret yet to be discovered.
Regarding undiscovered secrets, I’ve been arguing for years that Dr. Strange was a reboot of the short-lived Marvel hero Dr. Droom, from early issues of Amazing Adventures. Similar origin story and powers.
The art is beautiful.
I just recently found your channel, and I've got to say that the few videos I've watched so far have been fascinating topics that go above and beyond. Great work, looking forward to your future vids and catching up on the previous ones.
Welcome aboard. I hope you find a variety of material you enjoy.
Really interesting deep dive into a fascinating rabbit hole. Always brilliant content from your channel, fascinating stuff!
Ditko wasn't the only comics artist to go down that rabbit hole. Golden Age artist Bill Ward & early African American comics artist Gene Bilbrew did a great deal of BDSM art. Archie artist Dan DeCarlo did a lot of adult cartoons for men's magazines as well.
Your research is so good. You should make a "Life after Superman" video. There's not alot of TH-cam videos covering Siegel and Shuster decline and legal battles with National and your style is fitting in that regard. Keep making videos they're so good.
P. S: It's that a Roberto Bolaño reference in your forehead?
That's a very good subject! Thank you for the suggestion.
As for the reference: It's playing with the notion that I am an AI voice, which some have suggested. :)
Serendipitously, I'm reading through the Eerie Archives and finding Ditko there more than I had previously realised. It's not surprising he (or other comics artists - Wally Wood would be the most obvious) did this sort of material, purely because it paid well and it was probably more easy to do than complex plots, characters with depth and so on. Another fascinating video essay, thank you.
Great video. I love the Ditko content. Given his personal integrity, I wonder if he was also respecting his role as a ghost artist for the work.
It would be interesting if you could do a video focusing on Ditko's work at Warren Magazines. Perhaps his greatest post-Marvel work. I would say evolutionary, in that it continued his growth as an artist.
Cant watch right now but I liked and commented for the push. I'll watch as soon I get home, I suspect the naughty topic for the vid jeje 😂
Thanks for making and sharing this video essay. Always fascinated by anything about Ditko, one of my favorite artists and comics writers of all time.
Very interesting stuff. Keep up the good work.
The kinky Ditko stuff looks like Gilbert Hernandez of Love & Rockets fame took some inspiration.
You always deliver such good stuff!!!
This is such a cool exploration! Huge fan.
Been paying attention of your channel for a bit now. I think that if the men worked in such close corners as they did (I have that particular Stanton book), there would have HAD to be ideas tossed around and art done for each other. It would have been a natural situation to do so. Like you said though, it is all speculation as there is no hard facts. It is a great topic.
I think it's only natural, right? Especially if you got along with someone and respected their opinion. You'd likely be asking for advice or an opinion whenever you were not too sure about what you were doing. It makes sense to anyone who's worked in a collaborative medium.
I think I've also seen '"Stanton" work where a character had more than a passing resemblance to Harry Osborn.
From what I vaguely remember, Ditko's response to being accused of being influenced by a "Spiderman" kids' Halloween costume (1958) for his own costume design for Spidey (1962); or working on erotiic comics with a friend and former studio mate (Stanton?); both fell along the lines of...: It's up to the accuser to PROVE it! I wonder what Mr.A would have said about this?
The kids custom was bullshit and you'd have to be blind to think it was close to any similarity. The erotic comics were a known thing even in his time.
@@dakotah7683 Have you actually seen the "Spiderman" kid costume? Because it doesn't sound like you have. The company even secured the rights with Marvel years later to do an official Spidey Halloween costume.
There are quotes on various subjects that were from Ditko's essays, letters and "hearsay" comments from people he had spoken with but the latter are the least reliable due to the elasticity of human memory!
@@pulsarstargrave256I've seen it, the 1960's Ben Cooper one. It's at least plausible.
@@pulsarstargrave256 Fucking blind it is then.
@@dakotah7683 you'd have to be blind to think there was any similarly? Really? Design-wise, the costumes are almost identical. The only real difference is the colour.
Didn't some of the early SUPERMAN artists get accused of doing Tijuana Bibles in the 40s and 50s? Usually unsigned, but they could probably pay a bar tab or two.
And now Eric Stanton would be a highly regarded artist with award-nominated books at Image with a Substack and or Patreon.
There are a few Shounen Jump artists who publically started with hentai and there are examples of mangaka who do Shounen work and porn at the same time.
I love your videos. You always put out such intelligent work. As it pertains to Ditko and Stanton. They have no reason to be ashamed of the adult comics they made. And if anyone doesn't like them, then simply read something else.
Thank you very much. And I agree.
If those two creators got along that well, it's more than likely that they shared a common interest in that particular subject. And although this maybe a bit of a stretch, when you think about it, Ditko's Spidey *is* a closeted persona/alter-ego of an emotionally suppressed, angry teen that dons a skin-tight, fetish-esque costume and *does* have a penchant for restraining and photographing his ops in webbing. Spiders are also considered to be "creepy" by most women according to some polls. Anyways, insightful video. Thanks.
Please do a Ramon Fradon video one day...🥲
I second this.
Suggestion taken into consideration!
Thirded. She's easily the most underappreciated golden/silver age artist.
The art Ditko did not claim, would fit in with two other comic book art that I appreciate:
"Lady Death" by Brian Pulido
"F.A.K.K.2" by Simon Bisley
I have bought issues of "Lady Death" and Simon Bisley's hard cover "F.A.K.K.2" art.
Nothing could detract from Steve Ditko's classic "Spider-Man" and "Dr.Strange" art.
Well up until now, I thought (and was even told) a long time ago, that ''Eric Stanton Was Steve Ditko'' and all Stanton art was actually by Ditko, Now seeing this, and that Ditko did pencil and ink some of Stanton's work, I can see the connection, and that my friends comment may have been more sarcasm than serious.
I'd never heard this before, but of course it makes sense. The number of prominent cartoonists who have turned their hand to this kind of content would shock the prudish, so why not Ditko? Also the quote about Ditko actually laughing warm my heart.
Right!? There's very few anecdotes where he's, you know, a human being.
@@StrangeBrainParts other than Wally Wood, Ditko has always struck me as one of the saddest stories in the history of comics.
Wally Wood's story is pretty damn sad. He deserved a lot better.
Whenever I see the Zodiac Killer's composite sketch, I always think it looks like Steve Ditko. Needless to say, when I saw the title of this video, I thought the secret exposed might be a much worse secret.
Love the KLF nod at the end
Could you do a piece on Dark Horse's "Comics Greatest World" imprint from the 90s, a very underappreciated project
I've been compiling information on that very topic! So, that will happen at some point.
@StrangeBrainParts I look forward to it, I too was a fan.
Steve Ditko and Rabbit Holes go hand and hand it's par for the course.
so true, haha
What is the comic that is pictured in the intro?
This is pretty tame compared to the extreme fetishes that are rampant today, but I can see why Steve wouldn’t want people to know about this.
In the 50's & 60's comics were primarily for children & teenagers. I can see Ditko not wanting to admit, at least publicly, his involvement with such risqué &/fetishist comics. It could have severely limited his ability to get work. Also he might have gotten paid less &/not been credited since he was a "pervert" artist 🎨.
Maybe Steve needed the money, that's why he did this comic books, was disgusted by what he did, then denied it.
I knew this was going to be about his smut era.
TBH I think it's a lot better drawn than most of the stuff you can find back then. Heck, a lot of the comic book smut tends to be barely readable even today so it's noteworthy in that respect.
That's a good point.
I can recommend Rhymes With Lust by Matt Baker, more like an amped up Douglas Sirk movie than smut. Lots of heaving bosoms and light physical abuse, exquisitely drawn
I agree with all that! And, if you need a look at it, there's a video somewhere in the archives about it.
Great video
Love channel. Fun and informative. ❤
Have you every investigated " Tijuana bibles" ? A friend is a collector and has several he is convinced were drawn by 'famous' comic artists.
Nice sleuthing, but the "cross-pollination" between the two seems trivial at best. I won't fault you for the click-bait-ish title. Ya gotta do watcha gotta do. Top-notch video, as always.
Dudes rock!
Some of the panels undeniably indicate that Ditko was involved in illustration of some of those spicy comic books to some extent. His art style is too recognisable.
you gotta change that music... kills me everytime
Eric Stanton was such a sly fox making that NSFW material. No wonder Ditko preferred not to mention this period of his career.
Given Ditko's fascination with Ayn Rand and given Rand's interest in BDSM-adjacent stuff, I can't say I'm surprised.
It's really hard to say. It does appear that Ditko did, at least, ink some of that work. But then, having the same teacher and working in the same studio could easily have influenced the work of either of them to occasionally look like that of the other. In a shades of grey perspective, I think he probably did since Stanton's work was mostly just racy while the work of some contemporaries, like Ward, were downright explicit. Btw, has anyone else noticed that Kamala Khan's powers are reminiscent of Shade: The Changing Man's? LOL
Could you please provide a link to the video where Stan Lee claims that he created all of these characters and wrote all of the stories? Cus if any of this stuff exists you know that Stan Lee would make that claim and then on the seventh day he rested!
What comic does the first few panels belong too?
Steve Ditko was also a conservative guy, who later in life became extremely conservative. So given his disposition it's understandable that he'd be embarrassed to be associated with fetish comics.
"Ditko Shrugged" led me to think you would talk about his Objectivism. Ayn Rand's books had a weird way of giving the reader "permission" to misbehave.
If you tried to count how many artists and writers put and disguised their fetishes on their work, you have counted everyone, but like 10 people, but that's still too many people that didn't put their fetishes in their work
@7:05 Spiderman's logo looks like a spider but the Black Widow logo looks like a tick.
Good exposé
This video made me think of Tomi Ungerer.
My bit of speculation: I wonder if Ditko would have been less reluctant to be associated with Stanton if Stanton had stuck to things like Sweeter Gwen, vs his later, more extreme work. In later years, when Ditko was doing indie work, and had his lasting rep from Spider-Man, I can't see how the past silliness of Sweeter Gwen would hurt his prospects, so I doubt financial or career reasons would be involved. But being associated with an artist who's done things like shemales dominating men, with full frontal nudity? Maybe that was a bit much.
I would say that Stanton's stuff while NSFW for its time is tame by today's standards. It being more sexy women in sexy outfits with nudity at most but nothing explicit.
More softcore by today's standards and there's loads of artists who have done stuff of that level nowadays.
well done, i enjoyed this.
Didn't Joe Schuster work on something similar around that time?
Ditko was a great man and a great artist.
Nice.
I love Steve Ditko, I hope there's no terrible revelations in this video. My heart can't take it 😂
I don't think there's any terrible revelations. :)
Ilike.... eric stranton work.
I believe Ditko’s collaborations with Stanton were “open secrets.” One source said that Stanton’s marriage is what ended the friendship as Steve thought Eric was making a big mistake. No other evidence to support that but one has to wonder if Ditko might have had an element of misogyny.
There's very little about why they split. But it was definitely centred around Stanton's marriage. But I don't believe they left on bad terms.
Maybe he was in the closet
Was Stanton a big fan of Wonder Woman lol
Man, now that I'm famous, I hope nobody finds out I did cheap smut and erotica on the side.
Man, wouldn't it be great to discover they did cheap smut and erotica in addition to their regular work?
I'm glad times have changed, and creating adult content isn't *as* career-wrecking as it used to be.
It seems like Sweeter Gwen is based on Gwen Stacy & just, you know, sweeter.
I thought this was going to explain his secret for making all those tied up girls look so hot.
Wild how much comics and bdsm intersect.
This is nothing new and wasn't much of a secret at all. It was a known fact he worked with Stanton and was a decent friend of his for some time. It was most likely done as a favor.
Honestly, it seems like Ditko's involvement is limited at most and more of a favor for a friend than anything else.
Which honestly, I'm glad Ditko didn't go down that road, not because I'm a snob (far from it), but because I feel like ditko's style doesn't really mesh well with nsfw material. NSFW is best when it's pretty and soft, even when portraying hardcore kinks, and Ditko's style is way too off kilter and weird to be a good fit.
Plus, I never seen him draw a woman's face that was appealing to look at.
INTERESANTE
You haven't kicked out the J.A.M.s!
They are welcome for as long as they like. :)
Amazing how insanely bold & creative that stuff was & still looks 100X better than the absolute trash the current (2024) comic artists shovel as “modern”. Love how all the girls were absolute femme fatales & most of the men were bizarre weirdo’s. Lolz! That stuff is GOLD! Modern artist (comics) suck!
speeking as a fan sd does it realy matter if he did,
GUESS WHAT COMIC BOOK ARTIST AND FANS DONT GIVE A S##T ABOUT.
Despite all of this, everything that we know about Ditko (never married, no kids, no known romantic interests) seems to suggest that he may have been asexual.
I heard Ditko did some sort of bondage comic on the side