You talk about the potential for the shock to bottom out with the shorter compression travel but surely the bump stop should mitigate some of that "impact".
Thanks for the comment. Yes the bump stops do act as an interface to reduce the impact. However they are designed to be used infrequently for situations such as a jump or big impact that is out of the ordinary. If they are subjected to constant forces and are effectively “sat on” full time due to the shock being too low then they will fatigue and fail causing the shock to bottom out internally. Using the bump stops will also cause the car to become very very stiff as the damper becomes effectively deleted so it is good practise to keep the shock within its bump/droop travel range to ensure best handling and suspension life.
For future videos, can I suggest you cover the pros and cons for zero front toe setup of rwd cars and negative/positive toe. Which setup works best for fast road use and what's the recommended setup for inexperienced/experienced drivers please.
Thanks for the comment. Have you had chance to watch our video on alignment? We cover toe settings in there a bit which might help 👍 We can certainly do a video in even more depth at a later date
Realize the video is a bit dated but was wondering if lowering springs negatively impact the dynamic camber curve of the f8x platform during compression?
Great video! Very informative too. In terms of some brands, what would you consider to be above KW and Bilstein? Or brands you would consider high end? Cheers!
Great video. I recently picked up some ST XTA coilovers for my f80 since they dropped the price. I read that they are the same as kw v2 minus the polished stainless case. They also have kw club sport top mounts. I’m yet to install. Do you have any experience or opinions on these coilovers?
There are quite a few great options out there for fast road/track use. To name a few are KW V3, AST 5200, Nitron R1/R3, Ohlins R&T. Each have their own pros and cons. Feel free to get in touch and we would be happy to spec something for your exact needs.
Great video like usual! What is your opinion on sport shocks against coilovers? Like Bilstein B6-B8-B12(?) and Koni Yellows against coilovers entry level, for example for my car (Civic EK4) which is a shitbox, but has quite the suspension from factory (Independent on 4 corners and double wishbones all around with torsion bars), what would you pick ? For the budget I currently have, for the coilovers I would pick D2 Racing Street coilovers , Tein Street Advance Z or Flex Z, Yellow Speed Racing Dynamic Pro Sport ~ at 1000€ price point VS 700€~ koni yellow with H&R lowering springs. Won't be tracking the car that often (Atleast I think so). The car came initially with Eibach lowering springs, but I have them removed due to bad engineering on those springs, that didn't expect the weight of a B series engine, and my front was way lower than expected ( That's why I'm also afraid of going for Koni Yellows + H&R Springs Kit).
Im no expert, just a Honda guy and avid autocrosser who wants to help. Have you looked into the ground effects coilover conversion for koni shocks? They have a lot of honda options. I havent tried any lowering springs personally but the koni shocks are absolutely better than any shock found in the coilovers mentioned. The problem with most lowering springs is that they dont have enough rate for the amount of drop, or they bind early due to progressive spring design. Imo, Konis with stock springs, or the coilover conversion is the way to go on a budget. This is all assuming you want better handling and not just really low... Koni are the only affordable shock I've seen that has good repeatable dyno results from shock to shock. You would be surprised to see dyno graphs of some well known affordable coilover brands. No 2 shocks are the same, and some are valves backwards even. Btw, I've had 2 different sets of tein shocks fail on me within a year. Nothing positive from my customers cars either with budget coilovers.
@@jamesgunnels7113 ye I don’t care about ride height, mostly looking for the performance. I like to keep the car the most usable as possible. More inclined for d2 racing, since they are the only ones who offer tuv for a future homologation.
We have always been fans of the Bilstein/eibach combination for an OEM plus Upgrade feel. Particularly as these two brands are also OE suppliers to a lot of top car brands so the quality in terms of feel and longevity outweighs the lifespan of some of the coilover options that you mention. However, it does depend on your usage of the car and if it is predominantly track use then the coilover options might suit your needs more. If you felt that your eibach springs were too soft for your car then the former coilover route might suit your needs more closely.
I have a F20 M135i and do a lot of miles in her but would still like to get a b12 pro kit or MMR kit at some point.. would I still be able to adjust the camber so that I’m not killing the inside edge of the tyres? I’m pretty new to BMW so I’m still learning what can and can’t be adjusted.
I have been advised to go for the KW DCC coilovers - this video mentions the Bilstein coilovers as ‘budget’ and subsequently to stay with springs and OEM for longevity - do you consider the KWs as budget too? I was told pretty much the complete opposite in terms of quality and improvement over OEM…
Apologies if that came across wrong. We were actually referring to the bilstein dampers as a great choice for an oem plus upgrade in this video especially when matched with lowering springs. We consider both Bilstein and KW to be more at the premium end of the coilover market 👍 the DDC kit is also a great product that we have fitted many of with great success. The budget areas we refer to in this video are of the non brand coilovers that you might come across online for a similar price to lowering springs. In this case we would choose the lowering spring route.
@@SuspensionSecrets Very good to hear! Appreciate you clarifying - I know there are many variables but wasn’t sure if I’d made the right choice based on this vid - this is obvs your area of expertise so I’ll stand down… 😬
You talk about the potential for the shock to bottom out with the shorter compression travel but surely the bump stop should mitigate some of that "impact".
Thanks for the comment. Yes the bump stops do act as an interface to reduce the impact. However they are designed to be used infrequently for situations such as a jump or big impact that is out of the ordinary. If they are subjected to constant forces and are effectively “sat on” full time due to the shock being too low then they will fatigue and fail causing the shock to bottom out internally.
Using the bump stops will also cause the car to become very very stiff as the damper becomes effectively deleted so it is good practise to keep the shock within its bump/droop travel range to ensure best handling and suspension life.
For future videos, can I suggest you cover the pros and cons for zero front toe setup of rwd cars and negative/positive toe. Which setup works best for fast road use and what's the recommended setup for inexperienced/experienced drivers please.
Thanks for the comment. Have you had chance to watch our video on alignment? We cover toe settings in there a bit which might help 👍
We can certainly do a video in even more depth at a later date
Love the way you explain how everything works, appreciate the wisdom for my oem plus for me new m2 g87
Thanks very much for the comment. We are really glad you're enjoying the content!
Fantastic Video. I learned something today. I appreciate it. Thanks!! You have a new subscriber.
Really pleased you're enjoying the content! Thanks for subscribing.
Realize the video is a bit dated but was wondering if lowering springs negatively impact the dynamic camber curve of the f8x platform during compression?
Great video! Very informative too. In terms of some brands, what would you consider to be above KW and Bilstein? Or brands you would consider high end? Cheers!
Thanks for the comment. We hold both Bilstein and KW in high regard. Some other premium brands are: Moton, Nitron, Ohlins, AST and MCS suspension 👍
Great video. I recently picked up some ST XTA coilovers for my f80 since they dropped the price. I read that they are the same as kw v2 minus the polished stainless case. They also have kw club sport top mounts. I’m yet to install. Do you have any experience or opinions on these coilovers?
F87 M2 Comp your opinions on best options for fast road/track use coilovers?
There are quite a few great options out there for fast road/track use. To name a few are KW V3, AST 5200, Nitron R1/R3, Ohlins R&T. Each have their own pros and cons. Feel free to get in touch and we would be happy to spec something for your exact needs.
Great video like usual!
What is your opinion on sport shocks against coilovers?
Like Bilstein B6-B8-B12(?) and Koni Yellows against coilovers entry level, for example for my car (Civic EK4) which is a shitbox, but has quite the suspension from factory (Independent on 4 corners and double wishbones all around with torsion bars), what would you pick ?
For the budget I currently have, for the coilovers I would pick D2 Racing Street coilovers , Tein Street Advance Z or Flex Z, Yellow Speed Racing Dynamic Pro Sport ~ at 1000€ price point VS 700€~ koni yellow with H&R lowering springs.
Won't be tracking the car that often (Atleast I think so).
The car came initially with Eibach lowering springs, but I have them removed due to bad engineering on those springs, that didn't expect the weight of a B series engine, and my front was way lower than expected ( That's why I'm also afraid of going for Koni Yellows + H&R Springs Kit).
Im no expert, just a Honda guy and avid autocrosser who wants to help. Have you looked into the ground effects coilover conversion for koni shocks? They have a lot of honda options. I havent tried any lowering springs personally but the koni shocks are absolutely better than any shock found in the coilovers mentioned. The problem with most lowering springs is that they dont have enough rate for the amount of drop, or they bind early due to progressive spring design. Imo, Konis with stock springs, or the coilover conversion is the way to go on a budget. This is all assuming you want better handling and not just really low...
Koni are the only affordable shock I've seen that has good repeatable dyno results from shock to shock. You would be surprised to see dyno graphs of some well known affordable coilover brands. No 2 shocks are the same, and some are valves backwards even.
Btw, I've had 2 different sets of tein shocks fail on me within a year. Nothing positive from my customers cars either with budget coilovers.
@@jamesgunnels7113 ye I don’t care about ride height, mostly looking for the performance.
I like to keep the car the most usable as possible.
More inclined for d2 racing, since they are the only ones who offer tuv for a future homologation.
We have always been fans of the Bilstein/eibach combination for an OEM plus Upgrade feel. Particularly as these two brands are also OE suppliers to a lot of top car brands so the quality in terms of feel and longevity outweighs the lifespan of some of the coilover options that you mention. However, it does depend on your usage of the car and if it is predominantly track use then the coilover options might suit your needs more. If you felt that your eibach springs were too soft for your car then the former coilover route might suit your needs more closely.
@@Chico.00 Good luck with them! Have fun racing, that car is a very capable chassis.
I have a F20 M135i and do a lot of miles in her but would still like to get a b12 pro kit or MMR kit at some point.. would I still be able to adjust the camber so that I’m not killing the inside edge of the tyres? I’m pretty new to BMW so I’m still learning what can and can’t be adjusted.
For fast road would you choose Bilstein b8 and springs or St-x coilovers ? For a f20
I have been advised to go for the KW DCC coilovers - this video mentions the Bilstein coilovers as ‘budget’ and subsequently to stay with springs and OEM for longevity - do you consider the KWs as budget too? I was told pretty much the complete opposite in terms of quality and improvement over OEM…
Apologies if that came across wrong. We were actually referring to the bilstein dampers as a great choice for an oem plus upgrade in this video especially when matched with lowering springs. We consider both Bilstein and KW to be more at the premium end of the coilover market 👍 the DDC kit is also a great product that we have fitted many of with great success. The budget areas we refer to in this video are of the non brand coilovers that you might come across online for a similar price to lowering springs. In this case we would choose the lowering spring route.
@@SuspensionSecrets Very good to hear! Appreciate you clarifying - I know there are many variables but wasn’t sure if I’d made the right choice based on this vid - this is obvs your area of expertise so I’ll stand down… 😬
thank you !!!
Im hearing BC racing a lot in this video no?
No brands in particular just mentioning the category ;)
You are wrong bilstein b8 is shortened 30 mm