How to Make Drums Quieter (without a drum cage)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ย. 2018
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Read the Blog Post - collabwrshp.com/qdrums
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Vic Firth Tala Wand - amzn.to/4deT2A7
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Description
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Drummers are a wild bunch. And for the safety of everyone in the church, we put them in a cage.
Okay, so maybe this isn't the real reason. But a majority of churches who use acoustic drums put them behind a cage, also known as a drum shield, to dampen the sound.
But, is there a better way to lower drum noise? Let's talk about it.
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Fantastic tips - thanks for sharing all your research and trial and error!
"Open, honest and specific communication" - SUCH a huge point 4:15
Life advice. 😎
Have loved your blog, excited you are doing TH-cam videos now!!
as a drummer who plays behind a cage at church and loves because I can really use some big dynamics and play the original parts. Having some experience playing jazz in high school truly can assert that a good drummer should be able to play with regular sticks and be able to play soft enough not just dynamic level but lowering complexity as well in any space the can fit say 100 people or more. You may have to play completely different than you have before, your paiste 2002's and 24 in bass may not work any more. But trust me you can do it original parts won't work any more youll have to work out what works for the room but you can do it
AS A DRUMMER its called self control
Exactly, dynamics and control are key
@@TotalEvo7 But finding a drummer who can and will play for the situation - IME you're more likely to hit the lottery.
thank you, finally some one who gets it.
@@TimmyP1955 true
Really appreciate your insights across all your published videos. You had mentioned taping the bottom of the cymbals. I couldn't audibly pick up what kind of tape you found helpful. Perhaps did you say 1 inch gaffers tape? Thanks again for all of your efforts in providing churches from all over practical tools and resources to provide better worship experiences for their worshipping congregations!
Thanks for the kind words, Eric! We use 2in gaffers tape, but I'm sure 1in would work as well. Here's the exact tape we used: amzn.to/2HHi1P3
I just left this comment on another video so I'll just cpy/paste it here: I have 2 tricks (not shown here) that I have had AMAZING results with: The "Drum Skirt" and OH Mic in-ear psychology.
1) The Drum Skirt, is taking a black towel and hanging it with safety pins from the bottom rim's lugs. Just on the half away from the drummer, toward the audience. Nobody will even see it unless they're looking for it, and it blocks all the sound from the bottom head from getting to the audience, dampening it from the soft material, but also it's open on the back so it barely sounds or feels different to the player. But what you're left with is about a 33% reduction in overall presence and volume from the snare drum. And especially the high-mid to high frequencies, which tend to step on vocals and make everything sound washed out, loud, but also thin in overly reflective rooms, which is 9/10 of them when playing indoors.
2) Is a little more of a mixing trick, but it's simple to CRANK up the level of the OH mics and/or Hat and Ride mics in the drummer's in-ears. But if you really crank up the cymbals in their ears, they'll not bash away at them subconsciously, because they have plenty of level in their ears. It feels great to bash a cymbal when you have headphones on but no mics set up, it's quieter to you and you get all that feel, but if you crank them in your ears, you'll have to back off in order to not blow your OWN head off, which is a good thing then it also won't blow the audience or other band members' heads off either.
Wow. These are great tips. Thank you!
With number 2, are you making adjustments to the main mixing board, or at a personal mixing console?
@@GenerationXT In your drummer’s ears only. Whether that’s monitors from the house board or a separate console it doesn’t matter. I meant set up a pair of overheads, and do not even use them in the PA for the audience to hear. Just pipe them in to the drummer
@@GenerationXT I feel like I did a poor job of explaining so let me try again:
Assuming your drummer is using in-ear monitors, you set up overhead microphones, and then pipe them in to the drummer's in-ears a bit louder than comfortable for him/her. You DO NOT turn on those overhead microphones in the speakers pointed at the audience. Then, the drummer hears the cymbals louder in their ears, than they are in reality, and will subconsciously hit them softer, reducing the overall volume of cymbals in the room.
To be clear, this will only reduce the volume of cymbals in the room by 10-20%. In a live situation that might be all it takes to clean up your band's sound and make it more enjoyable for everyone in the audience, and everyone on stage except maybe the drummer might feel a bit less comfortable at first but it's a compromise, as is common in life.
I hope that made more sense, if you have any more questions or whatever I could talk about this stuff for hours and without sounding arrogant, but over the years of playing rock shows in bars and other small venues, I like to think I've gathered some tricks others might find helpful too!
@@djjazzyjeff1232 Thanks for the reply.
I now understand the basic concept, and that any increase should only be on the drummer's end. Even if it only makes a 10-20 percent difference every bit helps.
The main mixing board I'm working with is a Behringer X32. Everyone including the drummer is using in-ear monitors, with a Behringer P16 control box. There is a cage for the drum set. But they moved some things around not that long ago. So there may be a setup issue with the cage that needs to be addressed.
Sticks made here in Hawaii? Wow would have never known. Now thats an option. Thanks for the tips!
Good advice. I find as a drummer and a sound tech that although the hot-rods (the multi-dowel sticks) may sound good on the snare and cymbals, they sound pretty flat and lifeless on toms. We've opted to just use 7A sticks and gaffe tape on the cymbals instead. Lighter, but not as fragile.
If you use rimshots on the toms, they sound pretty much like a normal tom. Just don't rimshot on the snare, or it's almost just as loud as regular sticks.
EXACTLY!
I’m newer to joining the worship team at a church as a drummer and it’s awesome but just until recently my sound tech and pastor mentioned there have been complaints about the volume (mostly drums). I’ve played worship at church’s for years and learned self control as far as overplaying but this is my first issue with volume. I played quieter last service and was told by some the drums weren’t prominent enough and sounded a bit dragged so it’s a bit frustrating at the moment. I know it’s going to take time with trial and error but thanks for the tips!!
Yeah, drums can cause quite the tension amongst churchgoers. You'll find the happy place. :)
still a good drummer can control themselves and sticks can do it 7a from 5a is a diff but u can control the sound unless its a rockband that he cant keep up with volume anyway
The big thing that has saved us and allowed us to leave the cage are Big Fat Snare Drum Quesadillas and Sabian Monarch Cymbals (even quiter than their super expensive FRX series). If you can’t afford new cymbals, Meinl Cymbal Tuners work great (big ones on the bell and small on on the bow near the bell help to take away some sustain, brightness, and volume without affecting the wash too much.
Great to know. Thank you!
Well, I prefer using A-class regular sticks along with playing liter)) It provides me with full rolls control and doesn't embarrass by new strange feelings)) I always teach my students to make a nice shot with nice attack either loud or gentle))
I hate the way the plexiglass walls/dumshield kills the "life" of the hihat and cymbals in the room. At least there should be some holes to let some of the highend through FWIW
When I was 16 I had this amazing idea of using hashis as drumsticks, they sound awesome and quiet, you can get it for free at any japanese/chinese restaurant, dre drums sound just a little thinner but I think it is aesthetic
Great idea!
Isnt... Hashi just Japanese for Chop Sticks?
Great advice! But is that a typo I see, symbols or cymbals?
Haha. Didn't even notice that! Too bad you can't edit a TH-cam video. This typo will live on forever! -Kade
tala wands are fantastic. I have the yellow ones with grey foam in the centre. They have a beautful feel, excellent rebound, bright cymbal sounds. Pro mark viper rods are also very good, slightly more aggressive than the tala wands. They are a normal weight stick with a miniature bunch of dowel rods on the tips. They are no longer made sadly. of course the way to reduce volume is to stop whining and saying "but its IMPOSSIBLE to play quiet" and simply to excercise disciplined self control and just not hit heavily. If you have decent cymbals and tuned drums that ares ensitive you dont always need to beat them to get a decent sound. Sabian sound control thin crashes and rides are good, also sabian hand hammered thin crashes. Ziljian a's are too thick and heavy. After much experimentation I now get a killer punch from my kick drum. I use long strands of shredded up sheep wool fleece loosely placed inside the drum. I use a felt beater.It has sonic punch even at low volume, records fantastic. When yo really get into low volume playing your ears get way more sensitive to the nuances in sound quality
Great tips. Thank you!
"Exercise discipline and self control" If our drummers could do that we wouldn't be searching for videos like this! Lol. Seriously though, drums are the most simple instrument with the highest skill-ceiling by a MILE. Basically anyone who's mildly coordinated can sit behind a kit and fumble through a song with a band. But to make the drums sound and feel GREAT is really difficult. For example, Jeff Porcaro playing with a beginner teenage guitar player will sound pretty good. But a novice sitting behind the kit and playing along with Joe Satriani on guitar will sound like crap lol.
Good tips. Unfortunately it's not cheap to uncage the drums properly. The best solution is to treat the room properly. I've been in tiny rooms with great treatment and the drums are not loud at all, BUT that costs good $$ to do it properly.
Good point, Andrew.
Great video and some really useful tips. However, you are also assuming that the drum kit is miked up - in our church they are not. Even after talking to the drummers to be mindful of the sound balance, how do you manage things when they are still overpowering the rest of the band??
Are you using the sticks I talked about in this video? And have you placed tape under they cymbals? Those two things make a huge difference. And, if you can budget in mics for your kick, snare and toms, I'd definitely do it because it's the only way to get depth out of your drums, even in a small space.
Some of the drummers are already using the hot rods (and they tend to be the louder ones :) ). Haven't used the tape under the cymbals yet.
I’ll record a build soon to share with you so you can see. Those thunder sticks don’t last and the plastic ones don’t either.
The regular sticks can break easy to do you should use different sizes for different songs to get the sound you want for each song. They last longer and you don’t have to smash sticks and snap them
It's true. The sticks don't last long. We change ours out every 1-2 months.
The hi hat clutch in the thumbnail is so nice what’s the name/brand of it?
Not sure, Kriss. We purchased the photo rather than taking it ourself.
In a situation where drummers are put in a cage, is there still a great importance for an in-ear monitor since the sound is well caged?
And if an in-ear monitor will be used for the drummer, which should be tuned up more, the drums or the vocals?
Yes, definitely use in-ear monitors for your dummer (caged or uncaged). As far as the in-ear mix goes, I'd say the drums should be a bit louder than the vocals. Otherwise the drummer struggles with dynamics.
@@collabworship Okay. Thank you
Test with Yamaha ead-10
Those lightweight stick almost made me faint
Glad you didn't actually faint...
The problem is that sticks that aren't the right weight and don't give you the right response just hinder your playing and control. I'm all for trying new innovative ways to control sound, but to me that's like telling a guitar player to stop using a pick and saying "Here, use this piece of paper instead." 😄
Lol. I definitely get what you are trying to say, but not quite a fair comparison. It's more like having a keyboard play play weighted keys vs semi-weighted keys vs unweighted keys. There's definitely a preference, but dynamics and great sound can be accomplished from all of them.
Yeah church drummers are a wild bunch. 🤣🤣🤣
How often does the lidwish drumsticks break? Thanks.
Only once each... but too soon... try the way better silent sticks, have mine for several month now and they last!
The tape under the cymbal. Cant tell if you just put a small piece of gaffer tape under it or you rolled up a couple of inches to make it about an inch?
Can do either. Just depends on how much dampening you need. The thicker it is, the more dampening you'll have. You don't want to kill all of the sustain though.
Makes sense, thank you! Appreciate your information on your channel!
Vic Firth Rute 505.
That's exactly what I was thinking
I just bought the Silent Sticks and they definitely did not come from Hawaii these days. Delivered in less than a week. I got used to them very quickly and they play great. So far they Al seem very durable as well.
Good to know! Thanks.
You ain't putting gaffer's tape on MY Zildjians! ;)
😆
A better alternative to gaffer tape, which is terrible looking and a sound killer, but a better alternative is the Cympad cymbal felts, more specifically, the Moderators. Moderators are useful if cymbal sound is too aggressive or high-pitched. They help achieve volume reduction and alter unwanted overtones without sacrificing the feel of the cymbal. You could also use Drumtacs, which is what several drum artists use to kill unwanted overtones, but Cympad Moderators are what I recommend
Hot Rods sound terribel on the toms...and you cant get any rim clicks out of them of course.
We get a great sound from the toms using hot rods. With you on the rim clicks though - pretty much impossible.
Where did you get your sound absorbing curtain from for your church?
Here's the curtain we use: www.rosebrand.com/product1472/20-oz-Crescent-Velour-IFR.aspx?tid=2&info=20%2boz.%2bCrescent
You forgot to mention the ol' "pillow in the bass drum" trick.
True!
Theres no way I'm using those first pair of drum sticks.
Haha! I don't blame you. They are pretty strange, but can definitely be a solution for some. -Kade
I thought this video was a joke when I saw the first stick
Where do you get your background music?
soundstripe.com
Gaffer tape is terrible looking and a sound killer to cymbals. A better alternative is the Cympad cymbal felt package, more specifically, the Moderators. Moderators are useful if cymbal sound is too aggressive or high-pitched. They help achieve volume reduction and alter unwanted overtones without sacrificing the feel of the cymbal. You could also use Drumtacs, which is what several drum artists use to kill unwanted overtones, and are better looking than Moongels and tape, but Cympad Moderators are what I recommend the most. That way you can still use existing drumsticks, while having the benefit of the cymbals having the same feel.
Thanks for the tips!
Symbols
The cage is because people don’t understand what’s actually loud.
Snare and cymbals.
Put something over top and on the side and you’ll be fine.
Ah, the drum cage controversy. It'll be with us for the ages. :)
simple solution for softening the volume of the drums.... insert cotton balls inside the drums.... then the drummer/percussionist (if they can't enable their own self control) won't have to worry about their sticks.... [have used this very cheap technique for over 50 years in studio and live performance/concert recording.... quick and easy and the percussionist does not have to modify their style of playing. In addition, the drummer/percussionist does not have to modify their choice of attack devices (sticks, mallets, etc) and it does not affect the bounce, NOR do they have to modify the heads of their set or other percussive drum.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing this, Jim! I'll have to give it a shot.
@@collabworshipmusic for those interested in this concept.... there is a discussion with pictures here... www.pearldrummersforum.com/showthread.php?279513-muffling-with-cotton-balls-inside-the-shells/page2&s=5388f40ba0ef1b5dd3a8b21b6639bb12
for those who are new to percussion, this site has a lot of useful information: drumheadauthority.com/articles/drum-dampening-ultimate-guide/
do you actually have a video were you actually use the sticks.
We do not. But I'll add it to my list of videos to create. Thanks for the recommendation!
I've played those plastic sticks and hate them... Hot rods are a better feel by miles
I agree. Although the plastic sticks cut down the volume the most, we also prefer hot rods.
come on guys, you don't need all these little tricks, learn your trade, learn sound control, get lighter sticks if you have to, practice going around the set quickly at the lowest volume you can, that's control......dump the plastic boxes too, guys
Really great video - just please spell it cymbals, not symbols 😢😩
I know, right! Didn't catch the typo until after it was posted. And TH-cam does not allow you to update videos. 😩
Drum shields makes tha drums sound worse than what they actually do and plus my personal drumset knocks tha shields down which it's one thing i never trust my own personal drumset for but still i hate them with a passion and also it makes it hard for me to hear others as well and headphones makes me passout overtime for playin'! i ain't one of those tap tap drummers
Use chopsticks lol