Loved this video, I think your idea about mapping Roman roads is really interesting, just from the personal research I have done, I have found that some of these lost roads, sometimes also follow older routes, that may have been used prehistorically along with the more famous known routes like the Ridgeway, and if you also take into account the prehistoric long barrows, henges and hillforts its intriguing the network of routes you see unfolding. Although due to mobility issues I can't get out as much on the ground, as I used to, I would be really interested in helping where I can with your project!. I was the Ian Duncan (not my name), on Tom's latest video who suggested Cold Kitchen hill to investigate, so it was great to hear his views. This area to me is one that deserves some investigation as I am sure this maybe a tributary of the Ridgeway. I think another interesting question, is which came first the Roman road or the Holloway, in some of my walks hollow ways can be found very near hill forts, so some of those hollow ways maybe a lot older than we realise and even predate the Romans.
A classic vid, this one, for inspiration, they always are, but this one includes the issue of channeling inspiration to look closer into an active working compilation of the Roman Roads that aren't just the most visible straight, military roads.. Holloways, by the nature of how the 'hollow' part was created, for certain must have existed well before Roman times - Though there are some that are on level ground, the Holloways on slopes look like they were created by water flowing down along them, thus digging out the ditch effect of a Holloway. So wherever there was a specific route up and down hills, is a possible Holloway, and there were routes enough before Roman times, so Holloways included. It looks like Roman Roads on slopes have their drainage ditches close to the roadway, so there is no undermining of the agger, where water would be running close alongside of it, drained away by purpose-built ditches instead. There's also probably no doubt that for the Roman side roads, or 'B' roads, there were those that the Romans followed earlier existing route-ways.
This is a fantastic episode, combines so many things that I love, old maps, old language, cross referencing, stumbing around in ditches and bushes looking for clues and trying to come up with ideas to explain things.
Sorry for my bad english I travel from Cornwall to Rome through ancient roads in france Holland germany Switzerland and italy and i have experience to understand how the old roads work. The big cities were built on these prehistoric roads and the reason is obvious. Then the ancients always chose the straightest road, they didn't have the luxury of wasting time! usually the middle towns are 40 to 55 kilometers apart, a day's journey by carriage or horse. usually the roads of the 1950s and 1960s follow these old routes while modern highways are out of the questionLater, in the Roman era when there was safety, the roads were mainly plains, but with the rise of piracy in the Mediterranean, the roads followed a pattern on the mountains as well and the cities moved to the mountains! Many times the roads followed the riverbeds, especially in mountainous areas, so if a road passes through a town and you know from the buildings, the arrangement of the houses, their antiquity, their layout that this is the prehistoric road you are looking for.. then there is also the nature next to the road where you can get information such as the importance of the place and especially the destination of the road if it is important
Since I'm here in the 'States your videos seem to come up right as I'm finishing up my morning coffee. Granted that those branches of my family from England left that land, nearing 400 years ago, for the Virginia Colony, I find these discoveries fascinating and quite enjoyable.
There were, of course, lots of roads in Britain before the Romans arrived. They may simply have improved bits of the existing road. So you would get improved bits that look Roman at either end of a Celtic trackway.
I've been thinking about a comprehensive Roman Road map for a long time, but I really have no idea how to do it. I think crowdsourcing information is a very good idea, there are loads of local historians/amateur antiquarians around the country who are best placed to know about their local area. I've been really enjoying the many recent collaborations between the TH-cam Antiquarian community, maybe this project could be a collective effort? My area of interest lies in the Bath, Somerset and former Avon area, if I can help, I certainly will!
By OS maps, I meant their historical series. I purchased 3 of the series back in 1984: _Roman Britain_, _Britain in the Dark Ages_, Britain before the Norman Conquest_. I expect updated versions have been published since then.
@@llywrch7116 I know how to find them, I meant I don't know the first thing about setting up an online map database. My computer literacy is almost non existent 😅
@@robgrabowski2572 Try contacting OpenStreetMap; they have one of the best online maps ever which is constantly updated. Now it is true that they mostly deal with the current state of the surface but there is some historical data in their database as well. For example, there used to be an old railway close to where I live in the Netherlands. It's not in their online web map, but I was surprised to find a reference to the line in their offline map program for mobile phone (OsmAnd) and when I used their map editor (a desktop program) to download that part of the map the reference was indeed there. So I guess it depends on the 'view' if you see such data, I wouldn't be surprised if there is an 'archeological' view.
Its a brilliant idea to follow on from Margary's maps. Make sure that the data that is gathered has revision control so that edits can be proposed, approved and merged with a master copy. Like any open sourced software project.
I will fly to the UK for months just to do this. What an intensely cool and exciting thing to do. I can put my archaeology degree, long dusty yet treasured, to practical use. You need to arrange like a formal project and then manage a programme and then set it out. You'll get at least one Canadian and I'll venture a scrappy lot more. Volunteers will flock like very odd geese, er, flocking.
True Canada Geese migrating for the season. Lol. Small groups with mixed skills - like archaeology, engineering, linguist and geology - would be absolutely amazing to combine observational skills on this. A very interesting walking holiday if only a week or two can be spared. Engrossing project for someone like yourself who I assume is retired. I wonder if there's any funding possible to cover basic costs.
"...now I'm sharing it with you I guess you have that problem too" *problem is how to find Roman roads* *me, an American:* this is gonna keep me up nights Seriously though, I LOVE this channel (along with Time Team--I get ridiculously excited whenever they're mentioned here 🤣); as one of my interests is European history up to the 1500s, but at this point in my life I'm unfortunately unable to travel out of the country, this gives me the chance to imagine what it must be like to live in a place where there are still so many remnants of an ancient culture that had such a massive impact on the world. Thank you so much for everything!
Fascinating stuff. Immediately subscribed to Allotment Fox. I love the idea of throwing the call out to see if others can help further uncover these routes. I'll keep an eye on your channel to see if I can play a role in the plan.
Very interesting video. There must be many branches leading to/from each of the major Roman roads. Mapping them sounds a great - though formidable - project.
There appear to have been multiple early routes of the Fosseway through Bath, as the river around the old Homebase/Stothert&Pitt/Gasworks area changed its course during the Roman period. Back in the 80s, a local geologist was involved in a series of drillings along the river front, and discovered traces of the old river bed.
02:10 Via the LiDAR you can clearly see a massive complex (looks Roman to me) off-centre from the middle, sitting mainly in the SE quadrant. The complex covers approximately one sixteenth (1/16th) of the entire screen, to give scale.
🇺🇸Tacoma Washington state West coast U.S.A. Here. The only reason I'm watching this, is because I watched the movie, Roman Road, with Alan Davis. Fun movie, but I wanted to know more.😊
The first thought I had about Margery44 was that perhaps this is a "military" road that for some reason was never completed. The constructors marked off the route, then started the road agger at Cunetio and Sorbiodunum, then, for whatever reason, stopped. So you have the equivalent of an unmetalled track for the rest- just cleared of trees and bushes, and the boggy bits filled in. Maybe. My second thought follows on from Tom's Anglo Saxon tracts. Down at Seaton (Devon) there is a "Harepath Road". The moment I heard this (Years ago!) I thought Saxon 'Army Road' or 'Heer Pad'. (I can't find a Saxon 'th' on my keyboard.) May be of use?
I do really feel that could be the answer. The ditches normally marked the boundary and we have no evidence of them either. So yup... perhaps planned but only part complete
This is fantatsic! I live in East Kent. The main Roman port into Britain was at Portus Ritupis, (modern day Richborough), it had a huge triumphal arch there to make a statement to visitors and leavers alike! A short part of the route is traceable here! At the other end was Durovernum Cantiacorum, (modern Canterbury), again with a traceable Roman route at the start that's still in use today. In the middle is nothing! There must be around a dozen different routes on record, none proven. Routes have been suggested by 18thC Antiquarians through to 20thC Archeologists. Fieldwalking has found very little, but various tantalising finds, albeit unable to be connected up logically. I think(!) I've traced a likely route that hasn't been suggested before, (albeit it uses parts where clues have previously been found). It aligns with farmsteads and hamlets that all have 'Stone' or 'Sten' in the names, (perhaps notable as there's no natural stone outcrops in the area), and also runs along hedgelines, (some that appear out of place in the landscape) and obviously lengths of various parts of footpaths and roads. I'm going to dig around for the old Anglo Saxon boundaries!! I want to solve the puzzle!! n.b. The route cannot be a straight one, owing to the marshy topography of the area that cuts across the known start and end locations of the Roman Road. Indeed, one of the only clues in the landscape of the likley route is an agger branching off at 40 degrees from a straight agger that defines a 'Roman Road' that can be found in a wood near Littlebourne, to the East of Canterbury. n.b. I also wonder if, going out on a limb here, perhaps some of the confusion and disagreement between those who've tried to trace the route in the past is bacuase a One Way system operated! Who knows? What was the volume of road traffic like?
Hi Paul, we know it's going to be good when the first thing you do is disappear into a hedge!! I'm amazed that these charters still exist and can be used in this way, fascinating...... I'm off to the allotment!! Have a great week
What an exciting project. Alas, I don’t think I have expertise or time that would be useful to you, but I truly hope you can achieve this. What a way to leave a legacy!
12:38 Not what I was expecting to see in the countryside 😂 However, many thanks for introducing Allotment Fox to us all, he's got another new subscriber.
I marked down where i found roman pottery and finds on my permission ,it went right across a field, i told my FLO that i reckon it was a roman road or trackway ,when they did some geographics on the fields where we I found the Roman hoard ,low and behold a roman causeway appeared and ditching each side
beorg... seems to be related to the German Berg (mountain). Very interesting topic here and a fascinating new way to find Roman roads through the Anglo-Saxons. ^^
Hmm. Two similar AS words are in play here, that can be confused: according to my copy of Henry Sweet's _Student's Dictionary of Anglo-Saxon_, there is "beorg" meaning "hill, mountain; heap of stones", & burg/bur(u)h (pl. byrig/burga) meaning "fortified place; (fortified) town". Modern berg (which I think is a modern loanword from German) vs. burg.
@@llywrch7116 As pointed put in the video in Old English the letter g was palatalized. That is the tongue was raised towards the roof of the mouth. That means it sounds like a y. The spelling with g was retained because there was still significant understandability with Old Dutch, Flemish, and Frankish, where g was still pronounced as a voiced velar stop or fricative. This is why in English and its relative Frisian we say "day" where all other Germanic languages say "dag" or "tag". That is why you sometimes get -bury in place names.
Yes it does. But take it forward a couple of hundred years and you have ‘bearyuh’, ‘burruh’ and then ‘barruh’ (barrow). No German needed, English through and through.
Great film and thanks for the link too. I find Toman roads a fascinating subject and I hope through your excellent film more information can be acquired. Many thanks!
It's a shame then that most Anglo Saxon charters were lost with the dissolution of the monasteries. Where I am in Worcestershire we're quite lucky because Worcester monastery library continued to a large extent as Worcester cathedral library.
Yes. A great way to find roads, map other roads that may intersect. Could a roman road have been striped of its aggar to build what we would call a branch road. Were all roads completed. Did some just fizzle out to a muddy track to changed priorities.
Interesting as usual! The OS map of Roman Britain has lots of tantalising gaps to investigate! More questions: how were Celtic/Ancient tracks used or upgraded? Were Roman schemes abandoned part-way through (like HS2) due to shortage of money/man-power, changed priorities, corruption, incompetence?
Very interesting video, I’m heading straight off to search the Anglo Saxon charters of my area and piece together where I think the Roman roads are and will probably be completely wrong, thanks for sharing😊
Junctions of old roads, are often not a neat X roads. It’s highly likely Roman roads were the same. They meet and cross another Via but at not at the same point. Paul’s North-South route probably takes a “dog leg” kink via* T junctions at adjoining roads. * There we go it’s still in use.
Wish I had the time to help. We were walking near Everleigh last week and the maps and roads do suggest the old Marlborough Rd from Everleigh is turn of the millennium, there is also a transverse road that crosses it near Sidbury (?) Hill IA hillfort that also looks interesting. Didn't have time to look at it on the ground though :)
My Sunday evenings just get better! Thst was really interesting and the photography was good too. I will definitely look at Tom's channel as well. Thank you as always. 😊😊😊
I'd be interested in helping out. My Old English might be a bit rusty (I studied both English and history at uni many years ago, but then my professional life took a completely different turn, I'm a software developer now) but I absolutely love maps and I love Ancient Rome, so I guess that's a good starting point. Do you have any idea how you want to go about it? oh, and just a thought: is there any proof, that the two pieces of road close to Salisbury and were actually connected? Is there any other evidence that the road actually went from Marlborough to Salisbury to begin with? Or could the short sections of agger have been parts of two separate roads which probably went east to west, like the straeta you found in the texts, just following a north/south route for a short bit due to geographical restrictions?
Just looking at google maps while watching. For this one, I think the route that follows Old Marlborough Road, through Salisbury plan could be a contender. It runs through several of the charters mentioned, from Salisbury, Amesbury, Bulford Camp, to Everleigh and beyond? Perhaps, that with the chalk so close to the surface, the Romans might not have needed to build up the road as in other places? Totally agree though on putting together a roman road map, perhaps something to combine all the roman sites known as well, as there seems to be various maps with different places marked.
you mentioned clay used for the roman roads ...the potters used to dig out the clay to make pots... clay that was part of the roman roads..leaving a hole behind which people and carts fell into.hence the name POT HOLES in the road
I thought was from the more modern connotation of the Alternative Agriculturists removing the road structure to use it (inverted) in their indoor hydroponics set-ups? 🤔😱😈
Hmm.. doubtful. early 19th century: from Middle English pot ‘pit’ (perhaps of Scandinavian origin) + hole. Middle English pot "a deep hole for a mine, or from peat-digging" (late 14c.)
Not exclusive to Roman roads. Clay is heavy and moved on a cart so you don’t want to carry it too far to the cart so where suitable clay is found near a road they dug it out near the road and left holes.
@@johnfisk811etymology above suggests that is the folk explanation. I grew up in a boulder clay area. Peat bogs, sand and clay. Pits dug for clay, used for bricks, were not small. My parents' last house was built in Kiln field. The next field had been called brick field. There were clay pits dotted all over the coubtryside. Most now filled in as children often drowned in them. They shelved in then dropped. The bottoms full of weeds which trapped the unwary.
Paul, Margary44 - had a quick look at the Lidar and it seems followable all the way. Coming down from Savernake Forest it appears to connect to Old Marlborough Road. It is not dead straight and adapts more to the contours but you would expect that. It was a quick look but I am reasonably confident.
I'd love to see D.Ratledge lidar video on this. There are a few really obvious routes as you suggest, but I've struggle to see any Agger outside of Savernake. Your Lidar always tends to see more than mine! Would love to see your interpretation
Id love to find out more about roman roads south of Exeter (Isca). This could be a useful technique. Goodrington has roman burials, but no roman road leading to it. (That i can find)
I reckon it was the ancestors of the 1980s transport planners who were responsible for those unfinished motorways... Might need to get Auto Shenanigans! :)
The branches that leads off a Roman road must lead to resources or infrastructure the Romans were dependent upon for them to invest in building it and that they repaired it must have made it important. That branch could lead to Roman villa's or even a fort or temple.
A section of the (Prince William of) Orange Way that goes north from Old Sarum to Everleigh in the direction of Marlborough could be an earlier route adopted by the Romans when the seasons allowed.
Hiya Paul - @ 1:21 - I like the sign which say "The Cows have been Mooooved on"!!! lol 😄😄Also you keep on saying the word / name "Straet" which sounds very similar to my surname "Streater" 😉😮🚂🚂🚂
@@pwhitewick awesomeness! I also want an app for that, the old maps, and now roman roads / tributeries Ps I was at a mates house in Somerset and they've bought land where the Grand Western Canal went thru... Complete with remains of one of the boat lifts :)
Very interesting, there is a probable Roman road near me (video on my channel), wondering if you have done any research in the Norfolk area? Just subscribed to Allotment Fox, is it just me or do the Anglo Saxon words sound familiar?
Roads need to cross rivers and streams. Are there any remains of Roman bridges in your area, or have they all been long washed away over time? Another interesting video.
When the Danish Nordic Normans of Normandy famously conquested England in 1066, and followed the west coast, and main towns, and got to a river crossing with the remains of a Roman bridge; they called it Broken Bridge, or having settled in Normandy for 200 years or so, they spoke French, and so Pontefract - 'fractured' / broken bridge (ponte). There are also the zig zags of Roman Road remains, where they descend and rise to cross Rivers, with some Roman Bridge footings visible. Remains of bridges guessed to be rare, because the Romans built their bridges with wood, and River courses that have changed have washed away remains.
@@paulberen It shows what a loss the fall of Rome was. The Dark Ages is in my view a description of the period after the fall of Rome that is very appropriate. Thank you.
When they worked on strengthening the foundations on Bath Abbey a few years ago, the workmen uncovered a perfect ancient mosaic floor at 8 meters. Archaeologists said cover it over with sand and concrete and work the foundations higher at 6 meters. Madness really. To get planning for the digging of footings anywhere in Bath is a developers nightmare. But thats where i would begin mapping old roads in southern England. Bath. I wouldnt even say Roman roads either, you didnt have to be Roman to build a straight road. That would be just pigeonholing ourselves to a historical opinion which is at best, uncertain. Sometimes it better to throw everything out the window and start again.
once again thank you, yet another great video!! ( why could our Saxon forefathers not use "English" like wot we does 😀😀😀😀😀😀 )Once again thank you for one of the best You-tube channels out there.
Tragic really, I wanted nothing more than to imbibe your impeccable content Paul. Sadly, I'm born and raised in North America. So now that I've seen "Big Belly Oak" labelled on your map, I can't think about anything else. Why is it named that? Who named it? Does it really have a big belly, or is everyone there just mean? These are the questions I now need answered. GOD DAMNIT THE PEOPLE DESERVE ANSWERS
I think you'll love Tom's channel. Go subscribe: youtube.com/@allotmentfox?si=zzhJVR0wBv3W4tuN
I'm dutch and it is fun to hear these old anglo saxon words. It's sound so much like dutch😊
Loved this video, I think your idea about mapping Roman roads is really interesting, just from the personal research I have done, I have found that some of these lost roads, sometimes also follow older routes, that may have been used prehistorically along with the more famous known routes like the Ridgeway, and if you also take into account the prehistoric long barrows, henges and hillforts its intriguing the network of routes you see unfolding. Although due to mobility issues I can't get out as much on the ground, as I used to, I would be really interested in helping where I can with your project!. I was the Ian Duncan (not my name), on Tom's latest video who suggested Cold Kitchen hill to investigate, so it was great to hear his views. This area to me is one that deserves some investigation as I am sure this maybe a tributary of the Ridgeway. I think another interesting question, is which came first the Roman road or the Holloway, in some of my walks hollow ways can be found very near hill forts, so some of those hollow ways maybe a lot older than we realise and even predate the Romans.
A classic vid, this one, for inspiration, they always are, but this one includes the issue of channeling inspiration to look closer into an active working compilation of the Roman Roads that aren't just the most visible straight, military roads.. Holloways, by the nature of how the 'hollow' part was created, for certain must have existed well before Roman times - Though there are some that are on level ground, the Holloways on slopes look like they were created by water flowing down along them, thus digging out the ditch effect of a Holloway.
So wherever there was a specific route up and down hills, is a possible Holloway, and there were routes enough before Roman times, so Holloways included.
It looks like Roman Roads on slopes have their drainage ditches close to the roadway, so there is no undermining of the agger, where water would be running close alongside of it, drained away by purpose-built ditches instead.
There's also probably no doubt that for the Roman side roads, or 'B' roads, there were those that the Romans followed earlier existing route-ways.
This is a fantastic episode, combines so many things that I love, old maps, old language, cross referencing, stumbing around in ditches and bushes looking for clues and trying to come up with ideas to explain things.
Sorry for my bad english I travel from Cornwall to Rome through ancient roads in france Holland germany Switzerland and italy and i have experience to understand how the old roads work.
The big cities were built on these prehistoric roads and the reason is obvious. Then the ancients always chose the straightest road, they didn't have the luxury of wasting time! usually the middle towns are 40 to 55 kilometers apart, a day's journey by carriage or horse. usually the roads of the 1950s and 1960s follow these old routes while modern highways are out of the questionLater, in the Roman era when there was safety, the roads were mainly plains, but with the rise of piracy in the Mediterranean, the roads followed a pattern on the mountains as well and the cities moved to the mountains! Many times the roads followed the riverbeds, especially in mountainous areas, so if a road passes through a town and you know from the buildings, the arrangement of the houses, their antiquity, their layout that this is the prehistoric road you are looking for.. then there is also the nature next to the road where you can get information such as the importance of the place and especially the destination of the road if it is important
Compulsive Sunday evening viewing. Thanks, Paul!
Thanks Colin
Sunday breakfast for me, way out west.
Wonderful content, a lot better then what most of what BBC and ITV put out these days
Thank you.
Since I'm here in the 'States your videos seem to come up right as I'm finishing up my morning coffee. Granted that those branches of my family from England left that land, nearing 400 years ago, for the Virginia Colony, I find these discoveries fascinating and quite enjoyable.
There were, of course, lots of roads in Britain before the Romans arrived. They may simply have improved bits of the existing road. So you would get improved bits that look Roman at either end of a Celtic trackway.
You wouldn’t believe the number of times I’ve tried to find a source of Roman road locations, that’s a great idea you have.
Thank you for recommending the ALLOTMENT FOX channel. It is awesome ❤❤❤
I've been thinking about a comprehensive Roman Road map for a long time, but I really have no idea how to do it. I think crowdsourcing information is a very good idea, there are loads of local historians/amateur antiquarians around the country who are best placed to know about their local area. I've been really enjoying the many recent collaborations between the TH-cam Antiquarian community, maybe this project could be a collective effort? My area of interest lies in the Bath, Somerset and former Avon area, if I can help, I certainly will!
Start with the Ordinance Survey maps. They comprise a fairly complete data base to start with.
By OS maps, I meant their historical series. I purchased 3 of the series back in 1984: _Roman Britain_, _Britain in the Dark Ages_, Britain before the Norman Conquest_. I expect updated versions have been published since then.
@@llywrch7116 I know how to find them, I meant I don't know the first thing about setting up an online map database. My computer literacy is almost non existent 😅
@@robgrabowski2572 Sorry, I misunderstood your statement. Have a look at GIS methods & technology -- unless you've already passed that step.
@@robgrabowski2572 Try contacting OpenStreetMap; they have one of the best online maps ever which is constantly updated. Now it is true that they mostly deal with the current state of the surface but there is some historical data in their database as well. For example, there used to be an old railway close to where I live in the Netherlands. It's not in their online web map, but I was surprised to find a reference to the line in their offline map program for mobile phone (OsmAnd) and when I used their map editor (a desktop program) to download that part of the map the reference was indeed there. So I guess it depends on the 'view' if you see such data, I wouldn't be surprised if there is an 'archeological' view.
Its a brilliant idea to follow on from Margary's maps.
Make sure that the data that is gathered has revision control so that edits can be proposed, approved and merged with a master copy. Like any open sourced software project.
Love it, you and Tom bring history to life while keeping us thinking.
I will fly to the UK for months just to do this. What an intensely cool and exciting thing to do. I can put my archaeology degree, long dusty yet treasured, to practical use.
You need to arrange like a formal project and then manage a programme and then set it out. You'll get at least one Canadian and I'll venture a scrappy lot more.
Volunteers will flock like very odd geese, er, flocking.
True Canada Geese migrating for the season. Lol. Small groups with mixed skills - like archaeology, engineering, linguist and geology - would be absolutely amazing to combine observational skills on this. A very interesting walking holiday if only a week or two can be spared. Engrossing project for someone like yourself who I assume is retired. I wonder if there's any funding possible to cover basic costs.
@@michellebyrom6551 Not retired, but I'd take the time.
"...now I'm sharing it with you I guess you have that problem too"
*problem is how to find Roman roads*
*me, an American:* this is gonna keep me up nights
Seriously though, I LOVE this channel (along with Time Team--I get ridiculously excited whenever they're mentioned here 🤣); as one of my interests is European history up to the 1500s, but at this point in my life I'm unfortunately unable to travel out of the country, this gives me the chance to imagine what it must be like to live in a place where there are still so many remnants of an ancient culture that had such a massive impact on the world.
Thank you so much for everything!
Fascinating stuff. Immediately subscribed to Allotment Fox. I love the idea of throwing the call out to see if others can help further uncover these routes. I'll keep an eye on your channel to see if I can play a role in the plan.
Very interesting video. There must be many branches leading to/from each of the major Roman roads. Mapping them sounds a great - though formidable - project.
This make's our Sundays complete! Thankyou Paul, Excellent presentation AS ususl.......
Very welcome
Fascinating. So very interesting. Both you and Tom speak with such great passion. Most enjoyable. Thank you
We think that they might have discovered the Fosseway through the centre of Bath under a demolished Homebase site!
Oh!!!
There appear to have been multiple early routes of the Fosseway through Bath, as the river around the old Homebase/Stothert&Pitt/Gasworks area changed its course during the Roman period. Back in the 80s, a local geologist was involved in a series of drillings along the river front, and discovered traces of the old river bed.
02:10 Via the LiDAR you can clearly see a massive complex (looks Roman to me) off-centre from the middle, sitting mainly in the SE quadrant.
The complex covers approximately one sixteenth (1/16th) of the entire screen, to give scale.
🇺🇸Tacoma Washington state West coast U.S.A. Here. The only reason I'm watching this, is because I watched the movie, Roman Road, with Alan Davis.
Fun movie, but I wanted to know more.😊
The first thought I had about Margery44 was that perhaps this is a "military" road that for some reason was never completed. The constructors marked off the route, then started the road agger at Cunetio and Sorbiodunum, then, for whatever reason, stopped.
So you have the equivalent of an unmetalled track for the rest- just cleared of trees and bushes, and the boggy bits filled in. Maybe.
My second thought follows on from Tom's Anglo Saxon tracts. Down at Seaton (Devon) there is a "Harepath Road". The moment I heard this (Years ago!) I thought Saxon 'Army Road' or 'Heer Pad'. (I can't find a Saxon 'th' on my keyboard.) May be of use?
I do really feel that could be the answer. The ditches normally marked the boundary and we have no evidence of them either. So yup... perhaps planned but only part complete
Use the Icelandic keyboard and you get ð,æ, þ. You also get really useful •.
This is fantatsic!
I live in East Kent. The main Roman port into Britain was at Portus Ritupis, (modern day Richborough), it had a huge triumphal arch there to make a statement to visitors and leavers alike! A short part of the route is traceable here!
At the other end was Durovernum Cantiacorum, (modern Canterbury), again with a traceable Roman route at the start that's still in use today.
In the middle is nothing!
There must be around a dozen different routes on record, none proven. Routes have been suggested by 18thC Antiquarians through to 20thC Archeologists. Fieldwalking has found very little, but various tantalising finds, albeit unable to be connected up logically.
I think(!) I've traced a likely route that hasn't been suggested before, (albeit it uses parts where clues have previously been found). It aligns with farmsteads and hamlets that all have 'Stone' or 'Sten' in the names, (perhaps notable as there's no natural stone outcrops in the area), and also runs along hedgelines, (some that appear out of place in the landscape) and obviously lengths of various parts of footpaths and roads.
I'm going to dig around for the old Anglo Saxon boundaries!! I want to solve the puzzle!!
n.b. The route cannot be a straight one, owing to the marshy topography of the area that cuts across the known start and end locations of the Roman Road. Indeed, one of the only clues in the landscape of the likley route is an agger branching off at 40 degrees from a straight agger that defines a 'Roman Road' that can be found in a wood near Littlebourne, to the East of Canterbury.
n.b. I also wonder if, going out on a limb here, perhaps some of the confusion and disagreement between those who've tried to trace the route in the past is bacuase a One Way system operated! Who knows? What was the volume of road traffic like?
Hi Paul, we know it's going to be good when the first thing you do is disappear into a hedge!!
I'm amazed that these charters still exist and can be used in this way, fascinating...... I'm off to the allotment!!
Have a great week
Paul, what an exciting task to become engaged with. Good luck and looking forward to what develops.
I enjoy your content so very much, thanks. I never even heard of a Roman Road before your channel - now you are mapping lost history. Outstanding.
Another fascinating video. Thank you both. Awesome collaboration
This is exactly what I need on a Sunday evening. Happy days!
What an exciting project. Alas, I don’t think I have expertise or time that would be useful to you, but I truly hope you can achieve this. What a way to leave a legacy!
Brilliant, just brilliant. I think mapping all the Roman road branches would be incredibly helpful in a historical sense.
12:38 Not what I was expecting to see in the countryside 😂
However, many thanks for introducing Allotment Fox to us all, he's got another new subscriber.
Ah yes. Salisbury plain. You're never far from one these days.
Bladder control not part of Army training nowadays … Last winters high winds scattered them like skittles all over the place 😁
I marked down where i found roman pottery and finds on my permission ,it went right across a field, i told my FLO that i reckon it was a roman road or trackway ,when they did some geographics on the fields where we I found the Roman hoard ,low and behold a roman causeway appeared and ditching each side
Just made a brew, perfect
beorg... seems to be related to the German Berg (mountain). Very interesting topic here and a fascinating new way to find Roman roads through the Anglo-Saxons. ^^
You're helping right.... 🤗
@@pwhitewick I don't know how, but I'll try
Hmm. Two similar AS words are in play here, that can be confused: according to my copy of Henry Sweet's _Student's Dictionary of Anglo-Saxon_, there is "beorg" meaning "hill, mountain; heap of stones", & burg/bur(u)h (pl. byrig/burga) meaning "fortified place; (fortified) town". Modern berg (which I think is a modern loanword from German) vs. burg.
@@llywrch7116 As pointed put in the video in Old English the letter g was palatalized. That is the tongue was raised towards the roof of the mouth. That means it sounds like a y. The spelling with g was retained because there was still significant understandability with Old Dutch, Flemish, and Frankish, where g was still pronounced as a voiced velar stop or fricative. This is why in English and its relative Frisian we say "day" where all other Germanic languages say "dag" or "tag". That is why you sometimes get -bury in place names.
Yes it does. But take it forward a couple of hundred years and you have ‘bearyuh’, ‘burruh’ and then ‘barruh’ (barrow). No German needed, English through and through.
Great film and thanks for the link too. I find Toman roads a fascinating subject and I hope through your excellent film more information can be acquired. Many thanks!
thank you again Paul, such a Beautiful place to look for a road , 😊
Savernake is amazing. Can't spend enough time there
Really enjoyed watching this and interesting on some of the words as well
It's a shame then that most Anglo Saxon charters were lost with the dissolution of the monasteries. Where I am in Worcestershire we're quite lucky because Worcester monastery library continued to a large extent as Worcester cathedral library.
Yes. A great way to find roads, map other roads that may intersect.
Could a roman road have been striped of its aggar to build what we would call a branch road. Were all roads completed. Did some just fizzle out to a muddy track to changed priorities.
Interesting as usual! The OS map of Roman Britain has lots of tantalising gaps to investigate! More questions: how were Celtic/Ancient tracks used or upgraded? Were Roman schemes abandoned part-way through (like HS2) due to shortage of money/man-power, changed priorities, corruption, incompetence?
Nice to see you again Paul, now I know its Sunday
Very interesting video, I’m heading straight off to search the Anglo Saxon charters of my area and piece together where I think the Roman roads are and will probably be completely wrong, thanks for sharing😊
Wonderful thank you
Thank you
Tom never fails to amaze and intrigue.
Excellent video, one of the best yet.
Junctions of old roads, are often not a neat X roads. It’s highly likely Roman roads were the same. They meet and cross another Via but at not at the same point. Paul’s North-South route probably takes a “dog leg” kink via* T junctions at adjoining roads.
* There we go it’s still in use.
really hope you get to do the mapping. im pretty sure there is some undiscovered roman roads near stevenage that linked to ermine street
Stevenage has a maze of routes!
Love the cows just wandering around
Wish I had the time to help. We were walking near Everleigh last week and the maps and roads do suggest the old Marlborough Rd from Everleigh is turn of the millennium, there is also a transverse road that crosses it near Sidbury (?) Hill IA hillfort that also looks interesting. Didn't have time to look at it on the ground though :)
My Sunday evenings just get better! Thst was really interesting and the photography was good too. I will definitely look at Tom's channel as well. Thank you as always. 😊😊😊
I'd be interested in helping out. My Old English might be a bit rusty (I studied both English and history at uni many years ago, but then my professional life took a completely different turn, I'm a software developer now) but I absolutely love maps and I love Ancient Rome, so I guess that's a good starting point. Do you have any idea how you want to go about it?
oh, and just a thought: is there any proof, that the two pieces of road close to Salisbury and were actually connected? Is there any other evidence that the road actually went from Marlborough to Salisbury to begin with? Or could the short sections of agger have been parts of two separate roads which probably went east to west, like the straeta you found in the texts, just following a north/south route for a short bit due to geographical restrictions?
Thanks Missy, do drop us an email. I have no clue of how to plan this, but working on it slowly!
Powerfull video Paul - go for it.
This level of detail is incredible. I would just see a lump of earth 😂
Just looking at google maps while watching. For this one, I think the route that follows Old Marlborough Road, through Salisbury plan could be a contender. It runs through several of the charters mentioned, from Salisbury, Amesbury, Bulford Camp, to Everleigh and beyond? Perhaps, that with the chalk so close to the surface, the Romans might not have needed to build up the road as in other places?
Totally agree though on putting together a roman road map, perhaps something to combine all the roman sites known as well, as there seems to be various maps with different places marked.
Excellent show, Thanks.
Great video, Paul - defo will check out Allotment Fox.
you mentioned clay used for the roman roads ...the potters used to dig out the clay to make pots... clay that was part of the roman roads..leaving a hole behind which people and carts fell into.hence the name POT HOLES in the road
I thought was from the more modern connotation of the Alternative Agriculturists removing the road structure to use it (inverted) in their indoor hydroponics set-ups? 🤔😱😈
Hmm.. doubtful. early 19th century: from Middle English pot ‘pit’ (perhaps of Scandinavian origin) + hole. Middle English pot "a deep hole for a mine, or from peat-digging" (late 14c.)
Not exclusive to Roman roads. Clay is heavy and moved on a cart so you don’t want to carry it too far to the cart so where suitable clay is found near a road they dug it out near the road and left holes.
I always thought it came from the whole in a pot pipe.
@@johnfisk811etymology above suggests that is the folk explanation. I grew up in a boulder clay area. Peat bogs, sand and clay. Pits dug for clay, used for bricks, were not small. My parents' last house was built in Kiln field. The next field had been called brick field. There were clay pits dotted all over the coubtryside. Most now filled in as children often drowned in them. They shelved in then dropped. The bottoms full of weeds which trapped the unwary.
"this Roman road is my problem" - well, I've seen enough of your videos to know that you have much more. Roman roads I mean. Also problems. :D
Paul,
Margary44 - had a quick look at the Lidar and it seems followable all the way. Coming down from Savernake Forest it appears to connect to Old Marlborough Road. It is not dead straight and adapts more to the contours but you would expect that. It was a quick look but I am reasonably confident.
I'd love to see D.Ratledge lidar video on this. There are a few really obvious routes as you suggest, but I've struggle to see any Agger outside of Savernake.
Your Lidar always tends to see more than mine! Would love to see your interpretation
@@pwhitewick I don't think I have your email. If you let me have I will forward on my routemap.
Very much enjoyed this vid. It's a fascinating project and I wish you every success.
Thank you very much!
Wonderful episode - interesting to see the in the old English names lots of relations to German language
Id love to find out more about roman roads south of Exeter (Isca). This could be a useful technique.
Goodrington has roman burials, but no roman road leading to it. (That i can find)
I reckon it was the ancestors of the 1980s transport planners who were responsible for those unfinished motorways... Might need to get Auto Shenanigans! :)
Fair!
I was going to ask you if you’d consider doing a map! I’d love to walk some of the routes. ❤
Awesome episode👍
Thank you.
I am fiddling "Swinging on a Gate" on my Strad.
My first though was that those "start" and "end" points could be the starts of 2 separate roads. 🤔
Terrific Paul … would like to help but I am in Perth WA ! Great video …. Love the content ⚔️⚔️👏👀😎
The branches that leads off a Roman road must lead to resources or infrastructure the Romans were dependent upon for them to invest in building it and that they repaired it must have made it important.
That branch could lead to Roman villa's or even a fort or temple.
Great info.
A section of the (Prince William of) Orange Way that goes north from Old Sarum to Everleigh in the direction of Marlborough could be an earlier route adopted by the Romans when the seasons allowed.
Today I learned that towns ending in chester were of Roman origin!
English placenames ending in chester, caster and cester all come from the Latin castrum meaning a military camp.
The short road to the south of Westcourt in Burbage that links with the A345 is called Harepath.
And i noticed a Harepath farm!
Thank you Paul very interesting video again . Going to subscribe to your friends channel allotment fox.
Awesome, thank you!
Don’t forget that field names can sometimes give clues also😀
Tom is hilarious, with his No, but... energy
Lovely video mate keep up the great work
Hiya Paul - @ 1:21 - I like the sign which say "The Cows have been Mooooved on"!!! lol 😄😄Also you keep on saying the word / name "Straet" which sounds very similar to my surname "Streater" 😉😮🚂🚂🚂
Something like railmaponline... Nice idea!
That's the one
@@pwhitewick awesomeness!
I also want an app for that, the old maps, and now roman roads / tributeries
Ps I was at a mates house in Somerset and they've bought land where the Grand Western Canal went thru... Complete with remains of one of the boat lifts :)
@@LordoftheBadgers oooh thats cool. Which one. There aren't that many surviving!
@@pwhitewick it's by Bradford on tone. Its on private land but I know them so it's cool if you wanted access
@@LordoftheBadgers Trefusis Farm? WOW.... yes please.
Very interesting, there is a probable Roman road near me (video on my channel), wondering if you have done any research in the Norfolk area?
Just subscribed to Allotment Fox, is it just me or do the Anglo Saxon words sound familiar?
Thanks!
Your videos are always uplifting. Thank you for your hard work and creativity!🚦🚎🖥
Roads need to cross rivers and streams. Are there any remains of Roman bridges in your area, or have they all been long washed away over time? Another interesting video.
When the Danish Nordic Normans of Normandy famously conquested England in 1066, and followed the west coast, and main towns, and got to a river crossing with the remains of a Roman bridge; they called it Broken Bridge, or having settled in Normandy for 200 years or so, they spoke French, and so Pontefract - 'fractured' / broken bridge (ponte). There are also the zig zags of Roman Road remains, where they descend and rise to cross Rivers, with some Roman Bridge footings visible. Remains of bridges guessed to be rare, because the Romans built their bridges with wood, and River courses that have changed have washed away remains.
@@paulberen It shows what a loss the fall of Rome was. The Dark Ages is in my view a description of the period after the fall of Rome that is very appropriate. Thank you.
When they worked on strengthening the foundations on Bath Abbey a few years ago, the workmen uncovered a perfect ancient mosaic floor at 8 meters. Archaeologists said cover it over with sand and concrete and work the foundations higher at 6 meters. Madness really. To get planning for the digging of footings anywhere in Bath is a developers nightmare. But thats where i would begin mapping old roads in southern England. Bath. I wouldnt even say Roman roads either, you didnt have to be Roman to build a straight road. That would be just pigeonholing ourselves to a historical opinion which is at best, uncertain. Sometimes it better to throw everything out the window and start again.
Excellent stuff
love a collaboration ep
Brilliant- superb!!!!
I Like What You do, Great stuff!!
once again thank you, yet another great video!! ( why could our Saxon forefathers not use "English" like wot we does 😀😀😀😀😀😀 )Once again thank you for one of the best You-tube channels out there.
Thank you! 😃
I look for straight lines in the landscape the Romans were Obsessed with Straight Lines ...The British at the time preferred the old Driftways...
Like 👍 Tom Already 😂👍
You might want to consider putting your mapping project on Open Street Map.
Tragic really, I wanted nothing more than to imbibe your impeccable content Paul. Sadly, I'm born and raised in North America. So now that I've seen "Big Belly Oak" labelled on your map, I can't think about anything else. Why is it named that? Who named it? Does it really have a big belly, or is everyone there just mean? These are the questions I now need answered. GOD DAMNIT THE PEOPLE DESERVE ANSWERS
You'll just have to pay it a visit won't you!
If you are finding branches it then asks where do they go? Is it to some long lost villa?
We discussed the possibility of Shrewton. But I've not clue how old that is and it's Roman context. It goes that way though.
Good luck. Hope you can do it.
@2:20 it looks like a ...something, visible in the tree canopy.
I'm an Aussie in Brisbane and even I want to get involved! Cheers :)
did you go down portway in old sarum and try from there? looks like portway which is a roman road could lead to savernake
Portway goes up via Andover to Silchester
@@pwhitewick ok