Why I Won’t put a Powerful Direct Drive Hub Motor on my eBike Build
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2022
- Update on my custom ebike conversion build including my controller settings and performance. I also share my thoughts on high powered direct drive hub motors vs geared hub motors for ebike builds.
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Thanks for the tip on BAFANG steel gears for their hub motors. My AWD mountain cargo hunting bike (E-CELLS Super Monarch Crown) has TWO BAFANG motors. When out in the wilds hunting alone I absolutely must have reliability. Those steel gears may be a bit more noisy but at 2 mph off road or on gnarly trails it won't be noticeable.
What about the short circuits with metal gear dust inside motor?
My direct drive did 80 000km without single service (i didnt even replace bearings) and i would never change it for geared motor. I do everyday commute to work, shopping and recreational trips. Its in use everyday, also in heavy snow and rain. Nothing can beat that reliability. If you just want lightweight bicycle that you use for recreational ride once a month then geared motors might be fine.
geared hub motors suck, unless you like being a slow poke. They are loud, slower and very inefficient at top speed. Direct Drive is the exact opposite. Downsides being less torque and inefficient at low RPMs
@@dylansoutdooradventures Downside is you cant pedal them very easily if youre out of battery.
@@henrikgrangaard7498 Good luck pedaling any fat tire ebike regardless of geared or gearless motor. I don't consider that downside at all, the frames are heavier than normal bikes, the motors and beefier rims are 30+ pounds. Batteries add anywhere from 7-18 pounds depending on battery size/how many batteries. No matter what it's going to feel like carrying a 7 year old without battery power. You shouldn't be running out of battery in the middle of nowhere. Buy an extremely lightweight bike with a 350W motor and like a 7ah battery if you want to pedal incase the battery runs out. Shouldn't be buying a big fat tire bike for that purpose.
@@dylansoutdooradventures Yes.. and that's the reason the geared motor has an advantage.... if you want to pedal yourself. Doesnt matter if its a heavy or lighter bike. You buy what you want. If people have a problem pedaling extra weight from a motor + battery maybe its better to lose 50 pounds of body weight.
Its always good to be able to pedal the bike if something happens.
You "shouldnt" crash your car either. Yet you have an insurance for it.
@@henrikgrangaard7498 Lol you're comparing a car that has limitless range to stupid irresponsible riding on a ebike. Your comparison should be knowingly letting your car run out of gas, it's stupid. I've pedaled geared motors without the battery and I'm in shape, it's not fun and not something I'd ever want to get stuck out in the middle of nowhere with. You severely underestimate 30-50 extra pounds going up steep hills when the bike frame itself already is double the weight of a normal bike, it's like running up a hill with a teen/small adult on your back. It just ain't happening
Hey! Thanks for the great video. Please for god's sake were a high vis vest over your dark jacket. I would hate to miss your great content because you were bombing at 37mph and a car pulled out. Love you.
The audio was PERFECT!
Brave to put this hot take out there! 😂Direct drives are fun, but you're right, they aren't the best option most of the time lol
They can be great and very fun.
But I also have been noticing just how much less power my geared hub uses.
@@NPLVentures dude just buy a high end bike and call it a day all this mind wrapp is insane
Sound is really good. Didn't miss anything, no extraneous noise. Can still hear the bike motor a bit (good thing).
Steel gears seems like a great move, and the audio is great!
New Jerusalem times youtube channel purchased the stainless steel gear for his geared hub motor but decided not to install it because of higher noise and the worry that lead to a snapped axcle
I have a radpower with a 1500 direct drive motor on front which runs in the low 40’s by its self. I also upgraded to 52v 20ah times 3 batteries. It pulls 2900w. I also upgraded too 750w rear motor and a Bolton upgraded controller and screen too 1777w.
How do you find the handling with such a powerful front hub motor? Have you only been all wheel drive, or did you have that front hub as your only drive for a while? How is it just with Front drive on gravel and loose surfaces generally?.. I use to play a lot of hard court bike polo so I am capable at handling a bike, but I also really want to travel on steep gravel mountain roads here in BC, so I don't know... Are front hubs conducive to loose gravel going up steep paths and roads?
@@gregoryvangaya8971 I don’t use it for off road. It wouldn’t be very good. I left the left hand throttle separate and the throttle adjust’s with pas. I have steep grades and I ride it to work every day. The steering is a bit heavy but for my needs it works well and gets me to work pretty quick
We are still waiting, on the tri-motor setup! 😁
The thing that damages the motor is heat. You can probably run the full 96A phase current the Phasrunner can deliver. You just need a temp Sensor so you dont accidentally run the motor to hot. If you are worried about breaking gears you should limit the ramp up time so its not to jerky.
Good comments. Ramp aka onset of power is a big factor. A motor can sustain the power once its turning high RPM. Everything breaks more with more abrupt power....from car transmissions to half shafts to chains and cassettes on mid drive ebikes.
At what temperature does it become critical?
I only need to drive 5 minutes and my engine is 85 °C (185 °F)
Driving is no longer fun since I discovered the engine temperature gauge :/
@@Bergwacht it’s very hard to PinPoint one critical temperature since every motor and location of the temp sensor is different. I think the first thing that gets damaged is the magnets that get demagnetized but that temperature depends on the magnets. The temp sensor is usually located next to the windings so you are measuring the temperature of the windings not the magnets.
100 degrees Celsius should be okay for most motors. Some people go all the way up to 120 or 130 and it’s usually fine.
The thing to keep in mind is the higher the temperature the faster you are aging the material so it may die earlier.
I prefer giant direct drive motors because there are no gears present that make a ton of noise, this is why I don't like sur rons, mid drives, bafangs, etc. - they are great bikes (and parts) and popular because of that - but not for me for this reason. If you want to go fast and don't care about noise gas motorcycles are much faster than ebikes and for the performance, cheaper as well.
Most people prefer to buy the "fastest" bike/kit/etc because they think that's "the best" but fail to realize that the only true metric for finding the "best" is what suits their contextually specific application the best. Also status is a main influencer of why people buy what they buy, we're competitive by nature so saying your bike has a higher top speed or higher power output number makes you feel superior.
You're right about phase amps affecting torque the most. I'm not an EE, and I wish someone who wasn't would explain or give a better analogy than what is on endless-sphere. It has something to do with PWM and the mechanical load applied, which is why your phase amps can be greater than your battery amps. I found this which makes a little bit more sense, still not a full understanding:
_"The battery current and motor current in a PWM controller can be very different. Many people do not realise is that a PWM controller operates rather like a transformer (using the motor’s inductance) to deliver all the power it takes from the battery to the motor.
PWM controllers are not far short of 100% efficient - they cannot dissipate a huge amount of heat - so very little of the power drawn from the battery is lost in the controller.
The controller varies the motor speed by varying the voltage fed to the motor.
The motor draws whatever current is demanded of it by the mechanical loading. You can use a motor current calculator to work out how mechanical load affects motor current.
The effect of the above is that the motor current into a sufficiently loaded motor can be far higher than the current drawn from the battery: at half full speed, motor current can be nearly double the battery current."_
All the sabvoton controllers I have purchased have the phase amps double the battery amps from factory, which seems to coincide with a good starting point for tuning. I would try double phase amps first, if you're overheating or tripping your BMS, start turning them down slowly until you can push the bike without causing excessive heat or any shutdowns 👍
About the battery current vs phase current. I am also not an ee. But what I know that a controller acts as a dc to dc converter. Thats why phase current and battery current is diffrent
@@antoniokutija9788 Yes, the examples I've read are that the controller acts like a transformer, which is why the currents can be different 👍
@@hightech-lowlife there are videos on yt that explain this thats where I heard this. But they are hard to understand
@@antoniokutija9788 Yes, strangely no one I've seen has put it in more easily understandable terms, just formulas and talking about back EMF and PWM ratios. If I understand it more, I'll come up with a way to explain it better, might make a video on that subject too 👍
@@hightech-lowlife but I have to disagree on direct drive motors. I dont like them. If you dont plan to draw more then 1000w then they are just too heavy
Only a suggestion about using the steel gears in the hub motor is the same when transitioning from nylon to steel gear in a mid drive....sound. In engineering parlance, no free lunch and truth be told why nylon gears exist...they don't propagate the same sound wave that metallic gears do. Me personally? When nylon gears get a bit worn which maybe fractionally acclerated due to running on the margin of high power, nylon gears are cheap and easy to change. Do some research before you go through the exercise. Steel gears are why Sur-Ron's and CYC motors are so loud. I prefer stealth but I am fussy about sound. Otherwise a gas moto is overall better for power and range.
Your bike is running good, well done....if you have another motor coming, I would turn up the amps and watts and let it eat.
great points.
noise will definitely be more but shouldn’t be extreme. As mentioned, some bikes like the X class already utilize steel gears and the noise level, to me, is more than acceptable.
@@NPLVentures Just wanted to mention why nylon gears exist and why I am a fan of them versus steel gears which yes are stronger...but nylon gears when they wear are an easy swap. I look forward to your comparison video. Ride safe.
What do you think about the Electrom LEV? It has two motors, a geared motor in the front for low speed and a high powered direct drive hub in the rear for high speed.
I always assumed you could just lace a direct drive into a fat tire wheel. What's the limitation? Is it the spoke count? Is it the dropouts' width?
Sick video man! What’s that app called you use to measure your speed? Thanks!
Thank you for your videos! The sound is good.
Questions:
- Which brand was this 2000 Watt motor? How much is the cost of an ideal setup with good battery? Which on is a good and affordable battery?
- How is the performance of the 2000 Watt motor on 13 to 22 % steep climbs? Does it get hot, does it overheat?
- Do you think a direct drive motor is good when it has high wattage, the higher the wattage, the better?
- Which motor brand/type is in this Fat Bike? Why does the shown Grin Tech motor not fit in this Fat Bike?
Thank you very much for answering, maybe also in another video.
Most geared hub motors really don’t get too hot unless in weather over 85 degrees outside. 40-85 degrees is a good outdoor temperature to ride a e bike with a geared hub motor
I’ve been running 2,700 battery watts on stock nylon gears lol. 800 miles and still going. On the Luna eclipse. Bafang 500w motor too. I do have an extra set of nylon gears for back up when they do need replacement.
Have you checked out the 3 speed bafang?
I've heard that metal gears make way more noise and the nylon gears do a fine job. I've also heard that getting water and dirt in the motor is a big cause of problems. If seals are damaged or not set right when opened and closed could be a worst then metal gears would good. I'ld wait and if have a problem with slip or something befor opening up the motor housing.
How I feel as well. I prefer nylon gears for noise. If they wear, replace them with same.
Excellent content. Yes, a dual motor setup is possible: install a 1k pan-pot from the throttle to the controllers. Allows you to select front/rear bias on the fly.
I have a 1200w geared motor on a YYG Br100 and a 48v battery. Do you think i can get passed 45mph with another controller? The stock one is 25amps
I just bought my first ebike so it's an entry bike about $700 has a 360 w rear hub and a 36 volt 10 ah battery. My question is I'm starting to see a problem with my throttle where it's not responding when I'm at a stop but all the lights are still lit up so I have power any suggestions? And it doesn't happen all the time. Name on the bike is Costiç purchase through Amazon.
Doesn't the grin all axle have adapters for fat tire front forks?
my biggest concern is, the bikes aren't designed for that much power/torque. like others mentioned, the dropout is a weak point. no one can convince that it's a good idea to run 1000 watts through a front tire. now, you can buy a one of those stealth bomber frames that have a proper dropout/swing arm. a 1000 watt rear hub and a mid drive bbshd is by far the best of both worlds and marry quite well. use 1 battery that can discharge 40-50 amps continuously for a clean look.
I run 1500w through my front fork but I welded myself a steel truss/springer fork because I did not want to risk it with a QR magnesium dropout. That being said, if you use one of the more modern DD hubs from Grin that take the torque forces out of the dropout and transfer it higher up the fork leg, or use a through "axle" fork/hub combo, you'll most likely be just fine. Some of those forks are designed to withstand the braking force of a 180mm rotor or bigger and I can't imagine even a 3000w DD hub accelerating the bike faster than a hydraulic front brake can stop it, and he'd be sharing the load with a rear hub anyway.
@@FightFilms Great point of comparing the rigors of braking forks not to mention impact forces of front forks to onset of high watts due to a front hub motors. Forks tend to be very strong.
You use both motors at the same time? What is the benefit?
yes a mid drive dedicated for hills and powerful rear would seem to have the greatest versatility, if the bike then had 2 batteries one larger than the other it could be possible to plug in the motor most appropriate for the ride conditions
If your frame is so weak that a power force of 1000 watts can break it apart (which a human muscle can output), I think you have other problems down the road and dropouts won't help much. Don't use bikes that are designed to be very light for ebike builds. I have double amount of that power on my front fork with no dropouts for 7 years now on 2 different MTBs, no problems, cracks, heat, bending, etc.., because they were built to be strong and withstand stress, not built to go a bit faster on roads.
Phase current should be about 2x, 2.5x of the max battery current. Lower than that you would be wasting the power as heat instead of pushing the bike forward. Grin technologies hub motor is overpriced and underpowered, don't waste your money on that
You best source of knowledge is endless sphere forum.
You want to use the highest battery amps possible to make the whole system more efficient and your battery lifespan last longer
To the motor, use your motor and push as much as want until it burns, steel gears is a good idea. Then you can think about a new motor.
Lastly, never go front wheel drive. It's dumb!
Love your videos. Good riding!
Great advice.
Your audio is great.😁
The sound was fine. Still waiting on triple motors!
I can't see any option to modify your pwm in the controller settings. Try decreasing torque up ramp times to boost torque, the controller will sense you need torque faster and adjust that setting for ya.
The Grin tech motor is compatible with fat bikes. I have one on my fat trike, I use it to tow my son around to parks. I run a 52v 35ah, 60amp battery, grin phaserunner L10 on a 24” fat trike we can get up to 25 mph it’s not very stable on a trike beyond that. I currently have it set to 2000 watts. I was riding this weekend and the max watts on screen was 1600w. It's probably the setting but its fast enough towing.
I’ve got two front hub motors on two completely different ebikes. They are great on flat surfaces and tarmac. But winter time, rain gravel?…. They are dodgy as F. The wheel spins out and doesn’t grip. Plus the weight of a 750w plus at the front is not good. I put a 1000w front and 1000w back hub motor on a fold up bike. Great power but just too heavy!
I see that you use a UPP battery. How long have you used it? is it still putting out the same current and holding the same capacity as when you bought it? I have been looking at UPP batteries for a while but have been reading and seeing mixed reviews about fake name brand batteries, capacity and average output issues after a year and even some fires.
What experience have you had?
Hmm... Would you reccomend this one or the Fido T1 for a starter bike?
Considering he already said they’re the same bike flip a quarter.
if ya still wanna run dual motor you could migrate to VESC, which unfortunately does not support normal ebike displays, but it has nice functions like you can use the CAN bus to link multiple VESC's together and even use traction control so if you do a wheelie (dont think ur gonna do that, but if it happens the front wheel wont spin up to retarded speeds)
it also supports regen and all sorts of things like you can just map a second throttle as regen, or use a mid-centered throttle so if you move it one direction you can control regen, and throttle the other way accerate and whatnot, official ones aren't cheap but there are cheap versions from Flipsky etc.. like the FSESC75100 and the Makerbase MKSESC 75100
Agree for the most part, though I'd point out that Flipsky's small form factor demands you provide extra cooling if you're running it anywhere close to full rated power. I smoked mine fairly quickly.
My fardriver is mounted makes to the wind, so I'm hoping that won't be a problem.
I'm also going to be running a battery that can't cough up more than about 50 amps, so that should help too.
My home brew battery was effectively unlimited in what it could put out, and I think thats what smoked the controller, along with limited airflow.
Have you tried adding ferrofluid to your DD?
I still have an unopened syringe of the stuff I never used because I smoked the controller long before my motor heated up.
QS205 should have a heat sensor I believe, so whoever built your bike could have a heat shut down even if they didn't provide any indication of overheat.
@@Zomby_Woof i have no issues with my 75100 alu pcbs and 75200 alu pcbs (i thermal glued them to my frame which is made of relatively thick metal and has a decent heat dissipation by itself)
for a dd or even a high power middrive like some qs i would recommend a 75200 alu pcb or new makerbase 84200hp, cause dd hub motors want tons of current and 120A is low ish
or the new fsesc 75450 behemoth even better
i have no issues with grin's special ferrofluid (statorade) but i wouldn't use standard ferrofluid as it can eat enamel from the windings if its an incompatible one
Flipsky's old 75100 (non alu pcb) was relatively easy to smoke, never had one of those
as for a motor temp sensor VESC is 100% compatible with it, even if you don't have a regular value you can define the beta value etc manually
apart from an ebike i also run them in a pair of 11" scooters, one at only 5kW (old battery that cant take that much power) and one at 18kW peak
the 5kW one has a 75200 for the rear and a 75100 for the front motor, ever broke a 100 after running 150 phase amps which it really didn't have enough capacitance for, over 140 amps i felt it stutter and at 150 it blew up
luv this setup! BTW, NEVER set Controller to exceed battery BMS output amps or bad juju will happen...
Hi there. I have a stealth bomber clone that came with a QSMOTOR 205 direct drive in the rear, on a 26x4.0 fat config. Before, I had a rize blade 2 which is similar to the ariel rider x52. I broke away from geared hub motors because I found the nylon planetary gears don't last very long IF you do long distance, car-replacement type of commuting and if you're a heavy rider (I'm 250lbs before gear on). I have thought of putting steel gears in, but that risks chewing up the toothed ring inside the wheel body if not enough grease is present, or if the grease wears out, etc. Also questionable if you like to jump your bike a lot (i did with my blade) and that also may chew up the toothed ring if using steel planetary gears. I can't confirm any of this because I never tried it, I just moved away from geared hub motors entirely.
As for direct drive hub motors, They are more powerful, they are way quieter, way faster (can handle higher voltages) literally maintenance-free however they really suck at climbing. I use mine for long distance work commuting. my commute home is around 41km uphill and on the steep hills, my blade 2 is faster at certain parts. It's embarrassing. I'm fooling around with pumping more phase and this and that, but now I'm at a dilemma where my bike keeps shutting off on this one hill close to my designated spot (home) and I'm trying to figure out if its either BMS-related or temp related (maybe motor temp) although I'm not pumping out a whole lot of power for a 72v system (tried 80/300, 70/250, 60/200, and they all tripped at the same spot). So yeah, my two cents. I'd say if you just putt around town and don't go very far and you're not a heavy person, geared hub motors are more value for the buck but if you're looking for a long-distance car replacement and you're a heavy person AND you like to go fast, direct drive or mid-drive would be the better choice. If I can't figure out my cut off situation and if I'm limited to snailing the bike, I'm going to get a mid-drive with a pedal kit, talaria surron etc one of those as I need to be able to climb home.
Humm you don’t know it all! I am running a x20 ebike at over 40 mph.. It has a 2000 watt motor with a 5 speed rear hub.. it’s starts on the steepest hills from a dead stop.. I get not heat issues at all. this bike I have outrun everything..The bike out performs e-bikes costing 6-7000$.. at 1/4 the price.. rear suspension, blinkers, hydraulic disk brakes. 60 miles range.. Today their are rear hubs, mid drives and geared rear hubs.. Till you ride geared rear hubs. You will see huge differences.. Don’t waste your money on motors less than 2000 watts and request a geared rear hub..The very best ebike anywhere
Regen is a huge advantage of DD motors. From 0 to 20mph the geared hubs are great. Grin has a geared motor with regen
Your audio sounded very good.
I think you would find that adding a front DD hub to be a poor addition. The main advantage of the DD hub is high wattage and speed capability. The DD motor needs to be in the rear wheel if you use one. The only two really practical ways to dual motor a bike imo are to use dual geared hub motors or a DD hub in rear and gear hub up front. The main difference in how to choose between them is the type performance increase you desire. With dual geared hubs you get very good hill climbing and acceleration. It can run efficiently on just the rear motor and just add the front for big hills or traffic. The reason to possibly choose a rear DD hub is for top speed potential. I think if you want a bike that exceeds 40mph the DD hub is the better choice. And once you start pushing the DD hub with all the wattage that you need for high speeds you don't end up with much need for a front hub motor unless you live in an extremely hilly area. For that kind of use you could run a DD rear hub with at least 60v battery and 60a controller and activate the front gear hub only when needed for steep hills. In most cases though if you are using a DD hub you will be much better off to just have a single motor at the rear and put all your wattage through it. So I really only think dual motor setups work out efficiently with two geared hub motors. And then it really only seems best if you have first maximized rear wheel output by lacing in a 1000 watt gear hub and using a 40-45 amp controller. If your hills are steep enough to challenge that then you are a good candidate to add a front geared hub for extra torque. But if your goal is high speeds your best bet is to just use a DD hub at the rear and pound it with big watts.
I really appreciate your comment about your opinions on the usefulness of dual drive and which type motor is most effective on front and rear
dd front trust... steering powered feel godlike
My thought exactly brother Jimmy. Geared hub motors are great for freewheeling due to their built in clutch and can work well in a front wheel. A DD motor would need to have thin laminations and remain powered so as not to absorb energy while coasting. 🌎✨
It is possible to use a single throttle with dual motors. It would require some real fiddling with settings to get both motors playing nicely together on one throttle, but it can be done (I'd suggest similar motors for that).
Yes
you could mount 2 thumb throttles right next to each other you would be able to press both at the same time easily. I am sure there would be an advantage to just use 1 motor or the other or both when the need arises
@@utubeape That double press of 2 throttles would probably have you burning out the front tire upon take off, every time, unless the front hub is weaker or set to take off more slowly than the rear. I like the idea of being able to use either motor or both but would handle it with a 3 way toggle switch.
@@michaelsprinzeles4022 I don't know about other peoples thumb throttles but mine is analogue so you get less power if you dont press it down as far, I would put the front throttle further than the rear, so that the rear is used more.
If the front tire is going to spin furiously then the situation would not be appropriate to use it, meaning you would not be on a hill worthy enough to justify the use. I think front hubs spin out more because there is not enough weight on them, could be solved by having a front rack with the battery pack on it and leaning forward as you use it or both
@@utubeape I only suggested how I would do it, if I would do it. Full disclosure: I am no fan of hubs & especially not front hubs (for the flaws you mentioned). With the right gearing a good mid-drive will climb any hill so the need for a motor in the front wheel is rare as hens' teeth.
Is your low-end torque affected at all by the gear you're starting in?
Watching you cross Rt. 22 gave me flashbacks of when I was a kid and I'd cross Rt. 22 from Somerville to get to the Bridgewater Commons when it was first built.
Gearing in the rear wheel only affects low end torque in mid drive motors. With a hub motor, chainring and rear cog size only affects pedalling ability.
It’s kind of two different worlds using a geared 500/750 W rated motor vs A heavy, Direct drive hub motor. For bicycles that are meant for peddling, those small geared motors are great because they’re so light. When you get over to the heavy hub motors, it’s more of a moped at that point. You need a more powerful battery with a bigger controller, which adds more weight so it’s not best for peddling. So yeah, for bicycle purposes the smaller lighter motor is better in most situations. In my personal preference, I prefer the heavy, direct drive hub motors, but I’m more into the performance. All of my E bike builds pretty much whiskey throttle if you’re not careful lol
Edit: I see you have the cycle analyst you must’ve been on ES?
What hub motor are you currently using?
Bafang g60 soon to be g62
Where did you get the motor?
If you have a direct drive motor and a geared hub motor as well. The direct drive should be the one you use on its own. As it has drag if not powered
I feel like that’s gonna make it too heavy and kinda defeats the purpose of a foldable ebike… I think it’s better to stick with a powerful single motor and be done… look at the downsides of having 2 motors as well… I can think of a few
2 motors use split the work and the current
Nylon gears are superior to steel gears. That being said, Bafang Nylon gears are probably not the highest of quality. Also, you have to be careful what kind of grease you use on Nylon. While it is resistant to many different petroleum products, you shouldn't use anything off the shelf. I use TinkSeal, you can Google it.
Bafang is not even moderate quality. Their budget prices bring bottom of the barrel quality.
Make a hybrid bike! Hub motor in the front and gas powered in the back!
You have a good speed with that 60 volts battery 🔋
I was split between a 72 volt 14ah and this 60 volt 19.2ah battery. I think I made the right choice
Giant escape city 2 with altus that was geared 2x8, stock bbshd, perfect for city riding, as the area where I am has a few 20-30 degree long hills, and it’s impossible to ride anything here. Literally just use it instead of my motorcycle, as I can park for free right at the entrance. Busting a 52v 20a battery, charge it 2 times a week, uni is 5km away, battery is never under 60%
Using a fat and slim tire wouldn't that change the feel of the ride? Since fat tires act as extra cushioning, I wouldn't change it since the mid drive seems to doing a pretty good job already.
Some knows what´s the best electric engine to put in a car?
If you put a high torque motor in a suspension fork, you run the risk of snapping the dropout and dying. Unless you use the all-axle motor or the Crystalyte with a 20mm or 15mm axle and the appropriate fork. You can safely over-volt the Crystalyte and get a lot of power from it, but you will be spinning it out sometimes. Handling is different, not harder. I find it works like a steering damper in curves and the feeling of how it "pulls" you out of a sharp curve is quite cool, especially on an uphill. It will make your bike quite heavy, but for street or fire road riding, it matters little. The acceleration will be insane and you will almost certainly not overheat either motor at WOT if used in tandem. A high speed wound motor would be best for a 20" wheel, and by that point, it would be silly not to get moped tires.
if you just want to cruise on the road and commute a direct drive motor will do just fine. In fact its probably more efficient than a mid drive motor. But if you want to do anything else like trail riding, jumps, or even mod to extreme power levels mid drive is the way to go. In my eyes the hub motor on an ebike is a flawed design. Stick a 20-40lb chunk of metal onto a rear wheel and that whole thing needs to rotate. And this motor is stuck onto and slim axle, connected to a slim swingarm of the bike, onto a slim dropout. Just bad, but it'll work for people who only care about casual commuting on a light bike. The Surron was the bike i would've dreamed of about 15years ago. We nothing like that back then, it was a mountain bike with a direct drive motor you laced yourself and a battery pack in a bag you made hanging on a bike frame with the wiring you soldered yourself hoping nothing will catch on fire. I'm so glad to see the amazing evolution of ebikes.
Qs205 all day, paired will a good controller and it will hyper drive you to the moon lol
dual hub motors dont require two throttles, for someone who seems to have spent alot of time researching ebike design, it seems shocking that you did not know that.
where can I find information about it? do i need a second controller?
I have both a fat bike with a Direct Drive and the Bafang G060.750 (They are HAPPY at 80A Phase, Agressive at 100A and don't go above 120A and will run at 1800W all day.., The problem is 3 Phase Motors need to run at 2/3 speed or Full speed to be efficient, if you run slow then the controller and motor get HOT. Because your Bafang is Geared about 4.5 to 1 it allows for this. So the Geared Hub has more torque its MUCH better for Hills especially when running below 2KW.. Loooks like you have that bike about right now Dude.
Great comments...except he needs to up the current and watts in his controller to realized the benefit of his current hardware.
@@lukewalker1051 Correct Bro, and it's at this stage you realize wit a bit of basic Physics it'll be your battery that is the limit to the power, just don't blow your motor
What controller are you using?
@@BM-zm1jl Flipsky FSESC75100 -
@@BM-zm1jl One of those flippy ones, it is rated for 75V and 100A but overheats when going up hill
I heard Ariel ridder have stopped using metal gears because metal expands when it gets hot and caused Problems in the motor but I'm no expert so check it for your self
Put a 1000 watt hub motor and a smaller controller that would keep it from spinning out.
Maybe dont go chheap and any motor will solve your problem, you do know in your title you put a photo of the qs273 lmao they literally lead the market in the weight category, no other motor comes close with the same weight to power ratio under a £1000. But you do you.
I don't see how the steel gears are going to make the bafang motor any better. More durable yes, but it's not going to increase in speed or torque. Additionally, it will make the motor even louder which for a content creator may be annoying.
Low wattage. I struggle to keep my wicked E bike from going over 1k watts lol. 60 v 20 ah 39 mph throttle 1,999$. I wish i would have seen your for sale bikes b4 i bought 1 or i would have bought 1.
mid drive motor plus 11 gear Shimano internal gear hub
4:43 Testinguh
Qs hub motors are DD and powerful
high power hub motor is better then crapy those motor with gears
GMAC motor. Best of both worlds . But again not sure if it will fit your bike
Great motor, not compatible with fat bikes
It won't work on a fat bike. Grin will only lace it into a 20 x 2.55 max rim for you.
be careful i own this very phone holder on my scooter and when i fell my phone got sent to the pavement, you should ditch that phone holder
Shocking information, get a Fardriver controller and you will be surprised
Yes buddy , great video and you say thats why we have the comments, but you dont like replying very much to your subscibers / viewers 😒😒
Engrenagens de aço.... Prepare se para ouvir um terrivel barulho que ira chamar atenção de todos !!
LOL. Is that Rt.22 in Jersey??? You live very close to me. Ha ha.
Clickbait, he is not opposed.
your rockin right now?? you mean riding??? use more words like that,,,,very funny
Click bait.
Have you ever tried the actual stealth bomber? The click bait literally made me angry. I’m blocking you out of my feed. Bro you used the image of a 15 kilo watt bike and rode a 1000 watt … bye