Two things I want to add here - 1) I think warming up with weighted balls is totally fine - no problem there, and that wasn't what I was addressing in the video; the topic here was velocity programs based around weighted balls. 2) Mike Reinold did some research and found that weighted ball programs loosen the shoulder FAST - much faster than what is typical. This is alarming. Read about it here: mikereinold.com/why-weighted-baseballs-increase-pitching-velocity-and-injury-rates/
Thanks for this clarification. We use weighted balls for arm care and warm-ups and never did any WB work more than once per day (so before the first game of a double header, but not before the second). I think a lot of coaches fail to acknowledge the necessary difference in the first and second warm up of the day.
Coach, I have a friend in a MLB system and I won't say which one, but they are elininating the use of weighted balls until high AA or AAA only because they feel they are the cause of the increases in TJS.
As a doctor, former college pitcher and a dad I really appreciate this take. We need the coaches to talk us off the ledge sometimes so we focus on what is really important for our kids.
Great information. My son is only 9 and he loves to practice. I don't have to push him at all. He pitches on his 10U team. All we focus on is consistency and throwing strikes not velocity.
I gained 15 mph in a year (60-74) from just weight room and mobility as a 14 year old. And now at 15 I am still doing these things and now adding in weighted balls.
It’s so true bro when I was in junior high the high school let us practice with them I never hit a weight room in my life but once I did and we tossed a ball around I threw faster than ever before
This is awesome! I like the statement on focusing on accuracy and mechanics over velocity when under 12U. I think it's a lot over training at a 12U level. I see many parents train their kid year around at the same intensity level in baseball similar to basketball. The issue I see when it comes to training with weighted balls is that the parents or trainers don't understand the concept of a training cycle (post-season, in season, pre-season) which is causing a lot of over working of kids ligaments at a young age which you see later in their playing careers with frequent injuries.
Timing is a bigger deal once their form is set and strikes are thrown. I coach an 11u team. My #2 pitcher is wild at times. He clocked at 62mph. My 11yo is my #1. Younger, nqo puberty. He thows mid 50s, but with placement and constant velocity changes with slight movement easily mows through batters.
Anything up do to excess is bad, same with weighted ball, I like to do light warm up with it, short throws focusing on mechanics, then finish loosening up with a regular ball
Excellent perspective! I agree completely. I feel sometimes that with all theses gimmicks that these so-called coaches are putting out nowadays, kind of cancel out what all the legendary baseball players did before all these different things we see today. I mean, have we really completely forgotten how to play baseball? Do we really need to dissect all the different mechanics the way that it is being done to really be good? I feel that every day people are coming out with a "new" different gimmick every day and you don’t really know if it’s helping, if it’ll harm in the long run, or if their purpose is just getting more views and likes.
Great advice and exactly what I was looking for! You may have saved my son’s shoulder and elbow because I was considering a weighted ball program. This may be a little off topic, but my son is 9 and pitches and catches. Any advice on how to manage that workload, especially considering today’s tournament baseball where we play 4-5 games a weekend? His head coach has his heart in the right place, but we waffle back and forth about what is too much or too little.
My 11 year olds pitching coach recommended weighted balls with very low effort around 10%. The reasoning was to feel the mechanics a bit more and be aware of his arm position etc.
Dan, what was the weight of those weighted baseballs utilized in your academy? Dr. Coop deRenne of the Univ. of Hawaii tested weighted balls with teenage players in the 90's with decent velocity increases. I don't specifically remember if it was him who also advocated the 20% over/under regime that the Russians followed in their javelin throwing program, so following that protocol, the baseballs would be 6 oz and 4 oz.
And again, that study isn't really the bigger picture, because A) it doesnt address the longterm health consequences or benefits and B) it doesnt address whether or not young kids should be even participating in max-effort training programs focused on velocity (to which I say no). The science has some validity, yes - but in practice...less so.
@@DanBlewett The study (30 years ago) focus group was older teenagers, and so yes, it would be inappropriate to extrapolate the results to younger kids or to long term health benefits or liabilities for the younger kids.
I have a 9 year old, and we did weighted ball for 10 to 15 pitches about 10 feet apart to warm up, and he just went through 3 teams this spring and his growth plate go inflamed his last game of Allstars. Like you said, not enough info yet. It might of been throwing every day since this was the first season he did 3 sports, 2 being baseball and one football. I'm going to shut him down on the weighted and throwing for the next month to recover. I love the info though thanks #baseball#sports
Helpful and succinct explanation. You’re in the majority Re age limits. Parents and coaches pushing kids that are too young: Whacky parents/coaches think: “My kid is 14 and will be in the pros next year”!
Finn that you bought up the football. Tom House, Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson use to throw footballs when they were developing their velocity programs. I’m not 100 percent but the House programs were some of the very first scientific velocity programs developed by MLB players.
Under 15 yo… Really don’t even need so much “pitching practice” that part can be worked on incrementally. Back off the bench intensity. Just play catch every day. You will see velo increase naturally. If you’re kid is not playing daily catch and meeting that one prerequisite above all others, you will be wasting your time trying to gain velocity through various conditioning methods. Play catch.
My daughter is 9 and I wouldn't start her on strength training using weights, but what about an exercise program using body weight or maybe lightweight resistance bands?
9 is too young to do formalized training. And weights vs bands vs bodyweight really doesnt matter - the body only knows that it feels resistance. Weights are safe at any age if proper form and safety is taught - her pulling her bodyweight up on a pull up is no different stress wise than doing a lat pull down, and the body doesnt care which, for example. Anyway, 9 is too young no matter what. Wait til 12.
I agree no velocity program until high school (or matured) . Feel free to throw all kinds of balls, footballs, dodgeballs, heavy balls, just don’t repeatedly throw them against a wall. Mobility is much easier and safer. Long toss is a must for keeping your arm safe and improving mechanics. Velocity shouldn’t even be mentioned until 12u.
Lighter plyo balls are utilized for injury prevention. I tell the kids that we are using this to warmup the arm to throw, and not to throw faster. I want them throwing no more than 50 percent effort with the plyos. In this realm, I think daily plyo routine is good, even for younger kids, for prehab.
My son is 15 and left handed. He throws around 60ish mph. He has been complaining that he is the slowest pitcher on either of his baseball teams. He hasn’t done any weighted ball training. Would you recommend him to start now for his sophomore year in high school? And if so, how heavy is a good starting point?
I cant make any specific recommendations - see a local coach for this. But I will say that if he throws only 60 at age 15, weighted balls are not the solution to that problem.
Hello... thanks for the info. My son is 10 years old. He's got decent velocity and is learning a change up. Should he start to learn a curveball? I don't know if that would put strain on his elbow at such a young age and he should just stick to fastball change up . Thanks !
Before mature muscle growth (puberty) no kids needs to use a weighted balls. Just having them throw, catch, field basic mechanics need to be in place long before velocity and power can be achieved. Throwing hard and with speed sounds cool to a kid but when you blow out your arm and God forbid need surgery.
Hi coach! Thank you for the knowledge, much appreciated. What age should kids start learning curve balls and or sliders? My son is 12 years old, 5’9” 175lb. I have him throwing 2 seam, 4 seam fastballs, change up. At the end of the season, I started showing him the basics for a curve, but I’m nervous it’s too soon.
My son is in 9u and we warm up with a 15oz ball about 10 throws and then he pitches about 20 with normal ball and we rotate this out because in his case he needs the velocity/strength in order to prevent lobs, it has helped him tremendously this past week, definitely don't try pitching with kids young with the weighted ball. But casually tossing it does the job
I went ro school for kinisiology and while I've seen an awful lot of markefing around these programs with weighted balls. My gut says NO. Especially with kids. What I woukd say is... work on athleticism. There is so much you can be doing around mechanics, core strength, plyimetrics and more. I have a son that just turned 13 but he looks like hes going on 18. He's 5 11, 140. He throws in the low to mid 70s. No weighted balls. These kids put enough stress on their arms. Focus on athletisism, core and legs. Do proper functional movement exercises to strengthen stabilizer muscles.
Two things I want to add here - 1) I think warming up with weighted balls is totally fine - no problem there, and that wasn't what I was addressing in the video; the topic here was velocity programs based around weighted balls. 2) Mike Reinold did some research and found that weighted ball programs loosen the shoulder FAST - much faster than what is typical. This is alarming. Read about it here: mikereinold.com/why-weighted-baseballs-increase-pitching-velocity-and-injury-rates/
Thanks for this clarification. We use weighted balls for arm care and warm-ups and never did any WB work more than once per day (so before the first game of a double header, but not before the second). I think a lot of coaches fail to acknowledge the necessary difference in the first and second warm up of the day.
Coach, I have a friend in a MLB system and I won't say which one, but they are elininating the use of weighted balls until high AA or AAA only because they feel they are the cause of the increases in TJS.
This discussion on strength training and velo is one of the best we have on social media. Every player and parent should hear it.
As a doctor, former college pitcher and a dad I really appreciate this take. We need the coaches to talk us off the ledge sometimes so we focus on what is really important for our kids.
Great information. My son is only 9 and he loves to practice. I don't have to push him at all. He pitches on his 10U team. All we focus on is consistency and throwing strikes not velocity.
I gained 15 mph in a year (60-74) from just weight room and mobility as a 14 year old. And now at 15 I am still doing these things and now adding in weighted balls.
What kind of mobility drills work best ?
It’s so true bro when I was in junior high the high school let us practice with them I never hit a weight room in my life but once I did and we tossed a ball around I threw faster than ever before
Thanks for the great and thoughtful content you continue to deliver.
I appreciate that! Thanks so much!
This is awesome! I like the statement on focusing on accuracy and mechanics over velocity when under 12U. I think it's a lot over training at a 12U level. I see many parents train their kid year around at the same intensity level in baseball similar to basketball. The issue I see when it comes to training with weighted balls is that the parents or trainers don't understand the concept of a training cycle (post-season, in season, pre-season) which is causing a lot of over working of kids ligaments at a young age which you see later in their playing careers with frequent injuries.
Thanks Dan! Invaluable information that could save lots of arms and pain!
You bet!
Great stuff coach... great stuff... my questions answered! 👍
Timing is a bigger deal once their form is set and strikes are thrown.
I coach an 11u team. My #2 pitcher is wild at times. He clocked at 62mph.
My 11yo is my #1. Younger, nqo puberty. He thows mid 50s, but with placement and constant velocity changes with slight movement easily mows through batters.
Anything up do to excess is bad, same with weighted ball, I like to do light warm up with it, short throws focusing on mechanics, then finish loosening up with a regular ball
seems reasonable to me
Excellent perspective! I agree completely. I feel sometimes that with all theses gimmicks that these so-called coaches are putting out nowadays, kind of cancel out what all the legendary baseball players did before all these different things we see today. I mean, have we really completely forgotten how to play baseball? Do we really need to dissect all the different mechanics the way that it is being done to really be good? I feel that every day people are coming out with a "new" different gimmick every day and you don’t really know if it’s helping, if it’ll harm in the long run, or if their purpose is just getting more views and likes.
yeah, a lot of things are untested and we dont really know if they work / help / harm for years down the road!
I use them for my outfield passes to first base
Great advice and exactly what I was looking for! You may have saved my son’s shoulder and elbow because I was considering a weighted ball program.
This may be a little off topic, but my son is 9 and pitches and catches. Any advice on how to manage that workload, especially considering today’s tournament baseball where we play 4-5 games a weekend? His head coach has his heart in the right place, but we waffle back and forth about what is too much or too little.
Thanks for the kind words. Per your question, it's a little too big in scope for me to give an answer here - depends on a lot of factors.
My 11 year olds pitching coach recommended weighted balls with very low effort around 10%. The reasoning was to feel the mechanics a bit more and be aware of his arm position etc.
that reasoning makes little sense to me
Dan, what was the weight of those weighted baseballs utilized in your academy? Dr. Coop deRenne of the Univ. of Hawaii tested weighted balls with teenage players in the 90's with decent velocity increases. I don't specifically remember if it was him who also advocated the 20% over/under regime that the Russians followed in their javelin throwing program, so following that protocol, the baseballs would be 6 oz and 4 oz.
4-5-6 mostly, occasionally 8oz
And again, that study isn't really the bigger picture, because A) it doesnt address the longterm health consequences or benefits and B) it doesnt address whether or not young kids should be even participating in max-effort training programs focused on velocity (to which I say no). The science has some validity, yes - but in practice...less so.
@@DanBlewett The study (30 years ago) focus group was older teenagers, and so yes, it would be inappropriate to extrapolate the results to younger kids or to long term health benefits or liabilities for the younger kids.
I have a 9 year old, and we did weighted ball for 10 to 15 pitches about 10 feet apart to warm up, and he just went through 3 teams this spring and his growth plate go inflamed his last game of Allstars. Like you said, not enough info yet. It might of been throwing every day since this was the first season he did 3 sports, 2 being baseball and one football. I'm going to shut him down on the weighted and throwing for the next month to recover. I love the info though thanks #baseball#sports
Helpful and succinct explanation.
You’re in the majority Re age limits.
Parents and coaches pushing kids that are too young:
Whacky parents/coaches think:
“My kid is 14 and will be in the pros next year”!
Finn that you bought up the football. Tom House, Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson use to throw footballs when they were developing their velocity programs. I’m not 100 percent but the House programs were some of the very first scientific velocity programs developed by MLB players.
Some good stuff here!
Under 15 yo…
Really don’t even need so much “pitching practice” that part can be worked on incrementally. Back off the bench intensity. Just play catch every day. You will see velo increase naturally.
If you’re kid is not playing daily catch and meeting that one prerequisite above all others, you will be wasting your time trying to gain velocity through various conditioning methods.
Play catch.
Yep. Long toss is terrific for arm strength.
My daughter is 9 and I wouldn't start her on strength training using weights, but what about an exercise program using body weight or maybe lightweight resistance bands?
9 is too young to do formalized training. And weights vs bands vs bodyweight really doesnt matter - the body only knows that it feels resistance. Weights are safe at any age if proper form and safety is taught - her pulling her bodyweight up on a pull up is no different stress wise than doing a lat pull down, and the body doesnt care which, for example. Anyway, 9 is too young no matter what. Wait til 12.
Paul, bw climbing-play and a groundwork of calisthenics never hurt anyone.
Single leg stability drills. They can be a lot of fun. Lots of jumping drills. Sprinting, let them tell you when they've had enough.
I agree no velocity program until high school (or matured) . Feel free to throw all kinds of balls, footballs, dodgeballs, heavy balls, just don’t repeatedly throw them against a wall. Mobility is much easier and safer. Long toss is a must for keeping your arm safe and improving mechanics. Velocity shouldn’t even be mentioned until 12u.
Hi i'm new to the channel and to the game but I want to learn this pitch called gyro ball,
I heard that if you throw this it vanish and hard to hit.
dont waste your time on that
@@DanBlewett noted coach
I've been having hard times on pitching so I do batting but this pitch is as hard as something so pls help I'm 13 pls
Lighter plyo balls are utilized for injury prevention. I tell the kids that we are using this to warmup the arm to throw, and not to throw faster. I want them throwing no more than 50 percent effort with the plyos. In this realm, I think daily plyo routine is good, even for younger kids, for prehab.
sure, but that's just a speculative opinion. is it actually good for young players? Don't know. Just guessing.
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. He hittem with the Pulp Fiction. 😂
My son is 15 and left handed. He throws around 60ish mph. He has been complaining that he is the slowest pitcher on either of his baseball teams. He hasn’t done any weighted ball training. Would you recommend him to start now for his sophomore year in high school? And if so, how heavy is a good starting point?
I cant make any specific recommendations - see a local coach for this. But I will say that if he throws only 60 at age 15, weighted balls are not the solution to that problem.
Hello... thanks for the info. My son is 10 years old. He's got decent velocity and is learning a change up. Should he start to learn a curveball? I don't know if that would put strain on his elbow at such a young age and he should just stick to fastball change up . Thanks !
stick to fast-change
Before mature muscle growth (puberty) no kids needs to use a weighted balls. Just having them throw, catch, field basic mechanics need to be in place long before velocity and power can be achieved. Throwing hard and with speed sounds cool to a kid but when you blow out your arm and God forbid need surgery.
Hi coach! Thank you for the knowledge, much appreciated. What age should kids start learning curve balls and or sliders? My son is 12 years old, 5’9” 175lb. I have him throwing 2 seam, 4 seam fastballs, change up. At the end of the season, I started showing him the basics for a curve, but I’m nervous it’s too soon.
I have a video on this - search my channel.
@@DanBlewett will do, thank you
My son is in 9u and we warm up with a 15oz ball about 10 throws and then he pitches about 20 with normal ball and we rotate this out because in his case he needs the velocity/strength in order to prevent lobs, it has helped him tremendously this past week, definitely don't try pitching with kids young with the weighted ball. But casually tossing it does the job
I went ro school for kinisiology and while I've seen an awful lot of markefing around these programs with weighted balls. My gut says NO. Especially with kids. What I woukd say is... work on athleticism. There is so much you can be doing around mechanics, core strength, plyimetrics and more. I have a son that just turned 13 but he looks like hes going on 18. He's 5 11, 140. He throws in the low to mid 70s. No weighted balls. These kids put enough stress on their arms. Focus on athletisism, core and legs. Do proper functional movement exercises to strengthen stabilizer muscles.
quit giving kids fast food