Another great video! 👍 I never knew about comics journal 85... the more you know 🙌 Spider-Man 300 was the first graded comic I ever bought; Always loved that cover!
@@MintHunterComics I have 2 copies. One Direct Edition and One Newsstand. I was going to get them graded to see which one I want to keep vs. sell. Let me know if you're interested.
I was also working at a comic shop. And I have had this same argument with friends, forever. ASM 252, the next week was SW 8. Then TU 141 and Peter Parker 90 same week.
GREAT VIDEO. As someone who was there when it happened.........I cannot remember WHEN or HOW I knew the black suit was coming, but it was not a surprise to see that black suit appear on that stunning cover of issue #252. What I do remember was my teenage self carefully selecting and buying 3 copies of it. I still have Comics Scene magazines from around that era. If I find something there of relevance, I will for sure post it here. For sure I do not remember finding the news in any of preview magazines you highlighted. It was pre-internet of course, so I am thinking the announcement that this was coming must have made its way to the TV news at the time. This is a seriously interesting piece of history, thanks for putting this together.
@@MintHunterComics All I can add is.....it was a magical time. My main collecting era was late 79 (Rom #1 time frame is my point of reference) til approx 1988. So many great memories still today.
I think people just don't agree with what defines a "first appearance". Like how some people say Hulk 180 is the first cameo appearance of wolverine and Hulk 181 is the first full appearance.
Yes ASM 252 was first.. We were not worrying about previews back then. But NCBD was Friday in 84. Feb 2 was a Thursday and Feb 14 was a Tuesday. These books were not released on 2 different days of the week.
Thanks for segmenting your vids dude, again very informative and this is why I keep coming back to your vids! Love that internet introduction vid you added also ahahah.
Just sold one of my SW8 CGC 9.8’s for $700 USD. Will hold on to the other one I have graded, as I agree it will just continue to climb. Waiting for Secret Wars to be announced for the MCU!
I don't count the previews mags, for me ASM 252 is the 1st one. At that time there was a lot of magazines that came out but they weren't considered as a 1st app of this and that. We're talking 1984 when you buy comics to be read not for specs.
Well edited and narrated. Preview appearances ARE appearances, just not in comics (for the most part). You can call a preview appearance a first appearance, but not in comic books. The technicality would be, "1st appearence in preview advertisement/mag publication." So, essentially the preview appearance will never negate the "1st app in comics." UNLESS... you get a preview that is inserted in a retail newsstand or direct copy of a priced comic book (IE. ASM 365). Previews mags serve a purpose. Most of them are free. The ones that aren't free still are an advertising magazine, similar to a Wizard or a Becket for cards. But when a preview is actually added to a canonical comic publication, it blurs the line, and this is why ASM 365 is usually considered the actual 1st app of Spidey 2099 IN COMICS. Do I personally agree with that? Ehhh... It definitely rides a fine line, but at the end of the day.... it still is.... just a preview.
Exactly - you can't say they're not 1st appearance as they are literally the 1st appearance - however most don't count it as it doesn't effect story. Most consider story effecting appearances to be 1st appearances )which I tend to agree with)
I really wish I had watched this video a couple of weeks ago! There was a huge argument going on Facebook about this situation. I could have saved my fingers a lot of typing, because you have completely nailed it in this one! A lot of younger collectors assume Secret Wars #8 is the first appearance because it DOES show up in story form there first. But, for some insane reason, Jim Shooter had the Secret Wars book as a monthly title and had the resolution issues to the story coming out at the same time the first issue came out! So, as a kid, we were all trying to figure out what Secret Wars would actually be. It seemed like a deal where heroes and villains would clash and the winners would get a wish or something. For Spidey, he showed up with the black suit, which could do pretty much everything he always did except he wouldn't have to make web shooter fluid all the time. Thing became human and was on some alien world. It was kind of a mess. And by the time Secret Wars #8 came out, the symbiote had been revealed as a living entity and it made the reveal of the suit kind of lackluster. He was already in red and blue again. As to actual comic appearance history, yes, Amazing Spider-Man #252 is the first. Those preview appearances are historical and have value because they pre-dated the actual appearance. But, as far as comics history goes, Amazing #252 is the way to go. If this comes up gain, I'll just share this video and save myself some time.
Yes, ASM 252 was first. The owner of my LCS had a 1 per customer limit on the book. The other 2 books followed and were not as popular. I dont remember when SW 8 came out. I remember ASM 300 and I didn't get it because I didn't like the pattern of 300 all over the cover. Ugh.
Dude, such an engaging video. Graphics are on point and compliment the dialogue perfectly. On your way to 10k subs and more! Any chance we can get the background statues (mostly) fully in frame?
Marvel Age was the first time I saw the black costume. This is the first Marvel Comics **publication** where we see the black costume, but it's not a real comic book. If you have the first 4 Marvel Comics publications with the black suit, you are allowed to sleep. If you have the rest of the non-Marvel publications that mention and show concepts of the black costume, that's great but it can't be worth paying hundred$ for them. But if you do have them, you are allowed to sleep in on Sundays. All three full comic books were probably meant to be released at the same time or a week apart.
It's funny that just by having 252 two weeks before the other two gives it so much more presence! thanks for sharing man! still not sure about how I feel about all the previews
The sale dates provide the definitive answer, but as a personal anecdote, I bought both ASM and PPTSSM issues off the rack in '84, and ASM definitely was the first of the three in-continuity. I could be misremembering, but I recall that it was somewhat common knowledge at that time that 252 was going to be the debut of the new suit. I remember that issue being the first time I saw it, and this was at a time that I was buying comics every week. Pretty cool, though, about all the previews of the black suit prior to the ASM issue. On a side note, I had my issue of ASM 252 in my hands about 15 minutes before coming across this video. And as this video is playing, issue 299 (two copies of have of it) is sitting to my right in a stack of ASM issues that I'm rebagging and reboarding. Great timing for this video!
I bought 252 off the shelf at my local drug store (where I bought most of my comics at the time). I knew there was a change coming to Spider-Man but it wasn’t until I saw the cover of 252 that I knew what it was. Had I seen one of the other covers first 252 would not have been a surprise. 252 definitely appeared first at my newsstand.
Sometimes I don't even know which one is the actual 1st appearance, It's like if I see an old comic with the black suit spidey that was the 1st appearance to me! And that editor was lucky buying it for $220 lmao
Don’t count previews! It’s AMS 252, this was the first time the black suit was shown in continuity (it’s also announced on the cover) I remember getting this issue and thinking ‘wow, they’ve changed the suit-that’s a keeper!’ And then had to wait to find out where it came from when Secret Wars 8 came out 😃
My friend Jeff & I saw 252 on the new release rack & bought a few copies each knowing this was a world changing event, the other books were not out yet & the wait for Secret Wars 8.,,to find out exactly what was happening…that was awesome to be slowly brought along thru Peters interesting & odd journey & behavior! We were too young to read or appreciate previews & in retrospect, “knowing about the new suit” beforehand would have ruined “our” first experience of seeing the new suit on the new releases rack! I love this hobby! Be awesome! Silver
People need to appreciate the quality of this video and the effort that went into it. Hats off to you man. This was one of your greats and many more to come I’m sure.
I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure the publication date on magazines does not include the 3 month lag that was built in for comics newsstand returns.
Amazing Spider-Man #252 is the comic I remember picking up at the time where the black suit was revealed. Secret Wars #8 came out later due to delays, and was anti-climactic in a way. The cool black suit was some form of glop Spidey got from a vending machine that was supposed to dispense costumes. When Spidey realized something was going wrong in his life, and it might be his costume, he went to Reed Richards, whom discovered it was a symbiote, and sound could harm it.
There is another.....Comics Buyers Guide which was published weekly had the black costume on the cover. With it being weekly, the possibility of it being first is pretty high.
Finally thought I would have the “I own every issue in the video” parade, then you rain on it by bringing up the pre Marvel Age trades. Seriously, great video, those were the books that got me into collecting so it’s great to hear more about them.
Thanks man! my fav videos to make are always the research project ones - and I put a lot of time into this to finally answer the 1st appearance question once and for all
Cool video with great insight. If you looking for another challenge, I would like to know the 1st full cover appearance of Darkseid. New Gods #2 has his face on the cover, but it’s not memorable.
Wow, people have amazing memories. I recall getting All-Star Squadron #3 and a second comic the same day thanks to my mom wanting to surprise/cheer me up since I was sick. And for years after I could still vividly recall both. But now, however many decades later, no clue. Even after seeing what DC released that year, I have no idea which was the second one. But, you know what, this video got me to have a vivid memory of that moment and for a split second feeling like I was right back then with my late mother, so thank you.
Thank you for laying out the timelines on all these appearances and previews I love the history behind significant Instances like the Black suit. I like to collect everything around them even though they might not be high value. I do a similar thing with the previews surrounding Hulk 181
Great video. I was a kid then and collected both ASM and MTU. I would go to the same corner store and buy comics weekly. I vehemently recall ASM-252 on the rack before the black suit in MTU. I know this because I knew at the time this issue would be something "big" and I bought five copies of 252, which I still have. About two weeks later, I saw the black suit in MTU at the same store and bought one copy, which I still have also; 252 was in the store first. When I saw 252, I was like "WOW," which is why I bought five copies. If MTU had come first, I would have had that same "WOW" factor and bought all the copies on the rack of that book more than likely. Thanks again for the video.
Great research and time lines..and for me I've known about all the previews for sometime. And have been able to get them all....:) I'm a big black suit fan. The last book I needed and could never find any where even Ebay. Was the heroes hotline book. Good luck finding that one. And the journal magazine is a unicorn even more. I got dang lucky recently and finally scored the heroes book. So my collection of all the books you mentioned is complete. :) great job finding all the previews. Not alot of collectors know all that.
Great video man, this stuff is always so confusing... Plus you could throw in Marvel Spotlight 9 if you wanted to get crazy with it. However, ASM 252 is the one I would pick up.
I remember when ASM 252 came out, but nobody is mentioning everyone HATED it. The black suit was a total dud. I don't remember anyone going crazy over this idea / book. ASM 252 is the first black suit because it is part of the main storyline of that book. Previews are not part of a story, they are just a visual and therefore not first appearances. Even if the black suit appears in a story, it has to be part of the main storyline of that book or it is just a cameo -- like Hulk 180. (Don't @ me)
If the previews are considered first appearance, will yes. But in cameo form. The Preview books is just that, they talk about the character and shows you a picture of what the character might look like. But what if you get preview strips of the story with the character, then would that be the first appearance?
Great video as always James.I feel with the whole previews thing It's just going down rabbit hole In my opinion. I think as a community of collectors we need to get together and decide once it for all of what is the true 1st appearance Of the black costume.Also maybe having a category like 1st in print versus 1st in comic books.
I have a feeling the comic industry has a more than a handful of hidden blue chip keys that have yet to be revealed that they are saving like a pocketful of aces ...
Great question! I was a collector prior to 1984, but without digressing too much, I never bought new issues! I had a whole stack before I bought my first new issue: 257. I remember reading that issue, in it Spider-man briefly thinks about the Black Cat and I thought it meant she was dead. ( I confused her for Gwen Stacy, remember, we had no internet then.) Anyway, in order to work out what was going on, I started buying back issues of Peter Parker and Marvel Team Up. My point is: I bought Spectacular 90 and Marvel Team up 141 at COVER price even six months later, whereas I could not find 252 anywhere. So I can definitely tell you how the initial reaction went! I have similar stories about how the market reacted to 121, 122, 129 and 200. 200 was in the Dollars and Sense (Ridgewood) dollar box, multiple copies, NO BAGS. As for the others...
Awesome video, thanks for doing all the leg-work. I have MTU 141 and interestingly inside the comic there's an editor's note that tells readers to also check out ASM & Spectacular to see more of the new black suit. It seems like these three books were intended to all come out at the same time, simultaneously debuting the new suit together. But for whatever reason ASM beat the other two by a couple of weeks. I don't remember seeing them on newsstands as a kid, that was at the beginning of my comic book collecting and I didn't get my copy of MTU until after the fact.
A preview or sketch as a first appearance is like counting the trailer as the movie. Cool to have the sketches and what not as a companion piece, but the official book to me will always be ASM #252. It even says it right there on the cover, ha.
Great video as always. First things first, I was born in 1971 and was actively collecting Amazing Spider-Man when these books came out. I don't count previews. I've never heard of any of these preview books other than marvel age. Comic book stores were not all that common in 1984. I usually went to one store and sometimes another back then. My regular store either didn't put Amazing Spider-Man 252 on the shelves back then or somebody hoarded the book and bought them all. Either way I clearly remember having to pay $5 for my copy of ASM 252 at a Comic Book show at the VFW hall in Villa Park, Illinois. I'm almost positive that the show was in April of 1984. I was a very unhappy 13 year old to have to pay $5 for a book that just came out. Every seller at the show had ASM 252 marked up just a few months after it's release. I don't know of anyone marking up the other two books back in 1984. Nobody had stacks of them out for sale. Everyone clearly had ASM 252 as the first and most important book.
Given how valuable that Marvel Age 7 and 12 now are, I wonder when Marvel relaunches the comic to capitalize on the speculator-buyer craze that's going on right now.
Great video! I was always 50/50 when it came previews vs actual comic BUT me being a TMNT fan I gotta say I do like the preview appearances. Ie: Amazing Heroes 45 previews the TMNT and if I’m correct that was even sooner than Gobbledygook #1, I think it was even mentioned by the man himself Kevin Eastman. Loved this video dude!
Same here! I still lean more towards #252 as 1st app even after all this research but if counting previews #252 is the 7th appearance of the black suit! lol
1st appearance in a story usually counts as a first appearance to me, however chronologically I can see how that can be a first appearance as well. The 3 spider-man books do tie as the first appearance, which i bought off the newsstand however the first chronological appearance is Secret Wars 8, which I bought months later if I recall. Always wondered where that suit came from during that period until the secret wars series came out.
My friend Jeff & I saw 252 on the new release rack & bought a few copies each knowing this was a world changing event, the other books were not out yet & the wait for Secret Wars 8…to find out exactly what was happening…that was awesome to be slowly brought along thru Peters interesting & odd journey & behavior! We were too young to read or appreciate previews & in retrospect, “knowing about the new suit” beforehand would have ruined “our” first experience of seeing the new suit on the new releases rack! I love this hobby! Be awesome! Silver
Most of the fanzines had more realistic cover dates because they did not usually go through newsstand distribution. That said, I make no claims as to any release dates for them. It makes sense that ASM 252 was the first official appearance because they put “Introducing… “ on the cover (and back then, editors actually cared about making sure that stuff like that was timed correctly).
Better to take into account canonically where they appear first. X-Men Annual 14 and UXM 266 for first appearance Gambit. Even though the Annual arrived on shelves first, UXM 266 is the first true appearance. Secret Wars 8 for mine is the 'true' first, but all of them books are worth having to be honest :)
Great Video...It's absolutely ASM 252 though...it's nice to have the previews though for the PC...my fave of the previews is MA 12 just because the white parts are red which Jim Shooter revealed recently was actually a mistake. Wouldn't mind having a CJ 85 tho...but I'm a 9.8 snob when it comes to modern/copper books and that one is very hard to find in that condition.
I agree - I actually changed my mind about ASM 252 through my research - I thought I'd prove it wasn't the 1st app but now more than ever I'm convinced that it is
ASM 252 was the first time I saw the suit at my LCS and I remember liking the suit so much that I picked up several issues which I still have to this day.
Impressive and exhaustive detective work on your part. I still read back issues of The Comics Journal and every now and then I think to look up a copy or two on Ebay. Several months back I was shocked to see slabbed copies that apparently had a tiny Kevin Eastman drawing of TMNT's Leonardo in it. Then I saw a slabbed ish of Roy Thomas's Alter Ego zine with the first appearance of Black Adam. To me it's more than a little weird and I would much rather be able to read the Joe Kubert interview for $10 instead of seeing that issue listed for hundreds. Meanwhile the same obsessive fans are willing to blissfully ignore that the first appearance of Boba Fett was in the Marvel Pocket Book Empire Strikes Back and Marvel Super Special editions. Actual publications of the story which preceded Star Wars 42 by months. The market is wacky.
I was around and collecting in 1984. ASM 252 is the one for me. I don't consider previews. There was a lot of hype around the new costume at the time. So even if you didn't see it you knew about it.
I tend to agree with you, it's just interesting to know that Marvel team up 141, and Peter pqrker spectacular spiderman are NOT tied with ASM 252. They're tied for the second appearance of the black suit in my eyes
I bought 252 off the spinner rack before the other two books. I do remember their releases being staggered like that because I collected all 3 titles. Also, there's another issue of Amazing Heroes with a black suit preview. (It also has a Turtles preview, so very good book.)
Not a first appearance but a cool black suit issue. Spider-Man had to wear his black costume during his Transformers 3 team-up to differentiate from his Secret Wars action figure due to toy copyrights. Technically his third appearance in the suit but it wasn’t originally planned that way.
ASM 252 is the book I consider the first black suite appearance. Aside from it being released first it has the better cover which I feel breaks the tie haha. As for first appearances it tough. I do feel that there should be some guidelines to what is considered a true first appearance. Venom’s first is not 300. ASM 299 has a full page spread with his name. It makes no sense besides the fact that 300 has the better cover. Wolverine is another one that’s just as bad. Unfortunately it seems that the market dictates the first appearances. Great video!
Hey James thanks for the awesome video!! Just picked up a Batman detective comics 667 newsstand!! 🔥 thought you might be the only other guy that would appreciate that!
Previews should never count except for completionist purposes. If I have a preview ad for the new Air Jordans, that doesn’t mean I can tell people I own the new Air Jordans.
I'm one of those collectors who was buying everything comic book related during that time. I have everything you mentioned, and paid cover price , including 10 copies of ASM 252, so, essentially have no real $'s a stake. Consequently, previews are just that, previews. My vote ASM 252 !
It was ASM#252 as i went nits looking for extra copies of it all over but i was late on the week that it came out and only got 9 copies. Once i saw that comic i knew that it would be big. Then i kept an eye out for other appearances and grabed 40+ copies of SW#8. I have a few copies each of PP and MTU but did not believe that they were as big as the others.
I got my ASM 252 at a flea market. Near Mint. Me and my brother both... yeah, their was a WHOLE box of ASM 252 at least 200 issues stacked on top of each other for $2 a piece back in 2007. Still the craziest story I have and nothing will top it. My brother knew what it was. (The importance of the issue) and told our Mom she needed to buy all of them... she said no. Edit: I was only 10
Comics Journal #85... Now I know... and knowing is half the battle!!! Personally when I was buying the books when they came out, it was Amazing Spider-man 298 (First McFarlane in ASM) that was considered the First Appearance of Venom. Then they got technical and used words like "Cameo" vs. "Appearance". ASM 298 vs. ASM 299 vs, ASM 300. I do agree that #300 has the BEST COVER. But in my heart, ASM 298 will always be, in MY humble opinion, the first appearance of Venom.
@@MintHunterComics RE: ASM 298 Marvel Fandom.com has: "Other Characters: Venom (Eddie Brock) (First appearance as Venom) (Shadow only)" It's similar to Wolverine's first Appearance: Incredible Hulk 180 or 181?
Super interesting my man! It's very debatable. I mean, if single panels or quick references to a new character is considered a 1st cameo, wouldn't previews we classed as the actual 1st cameo? I don't really go for the previews. To learn what's coming out in the future, yeah. But to collect, I prefer the actual comics. Because there's never really much of a story in the previews. However, in terms of investment - if the market decides previews are gold - then for sure, I'm locking them up in my safe. Thanks for doing all the detailed research. I did always wonder about the 1st app of the black suit. 🤘
Awesome channel. I just moved and dug out my comics that I haven't touched but once since I collected in the 80's. I have the collecting bug again, oh crap. Anyway, saw that I have ASM 252... probably in a 9.2 or 9.4.. which is amazing since I bought it off the shelf as a kid and read it a couple times. Also had X-men 101 in a 8.5 or 9.0 that I picked up for like $10 in 1985. Kinda bummed that I can't find my ASM 300.. I think I gave it to my brother in like 2002 to hang on his bonus room wall.. good luck getting it back lol. I just made my first submission to CGC ever.. 35 books, wish me luck. :)
Great video and great breakdown of the information. I'm torn as well on the previews. The one for the black suit is a very preview whereas the preview/first appearance for Spider-man 2099 is more in depth and you see a few panels of him in ASM 365. I say that ASM 252 is the first true appearance of the black suit, the market tends to dictate what book is the first appearance as well and this one has him on the cover and is just a beautiful book all around.
My first comic i ever bought, Marvel Tales #276 (reprint ASM #263) says Black Cat made him the black suit. I've never been able to find the history between the symbiote and his regular cloth suit... I've been confused since the Sony movies came out.
In this case, I wouldn’t count any of the previews, they each only showed like a 2 inch panel. Therefore, my vote will always be ASM 252. However, for the case of ASM 365, they literally previewed an entire 7-8 pages of Spider-Man 2099, so that counts for me as his first appearance. 👍 Loved the video btw.
My theory is that it’s all the cover. Hulk 180 has a Meh cover. It’ll never overthrow 181. ASM 299 cover? Meh. Team up and Spectacular Spider-Man? Meh.
You're right on here. I mean, c'mon, the Spectacular Spider-Man cover shows the red & blue suit instead of the new black suit! Get it off the list entirely!
Thanks for this content, always worth the watch and love the spec on the spec perspective! IMHO, ASM252 is the book. The rest, including those previews not published by Marvel, sorry they just don’t cut it. I’ll stick with 252, 300 and SW8 as the keys to delivering this character. Main storyline was pencilled in only those three books… the rest are just by association, be it publication date or insider news.
@@MintHunterComics Marvel Age isn’t character story-related, it’s news, articles, artwork and gossip (aka industry Insider info) therefore shouldn’t count as far as intro, appearance or origin. Also think CGC should replace the, “Ties with Team up 141”. Team-up is true second appearance based on your research.
Hi Mint-Hunter! New fan of the channel and you've gotten me into wanting to grade books as well. I got an old fantastic four issue with a pristine cover (literally no blemishes I can find), but the interior pages have holes from a staple that's no longer there. Do you think this is still worth submitting? Not sure how much that will impact the grade.
Another great video! 👍 I never knew about comics journal 85... the more you know 🙌 Spider-Man 300 was the first graded comic I ever bought; Always loved that cover!
I want a copy now haha - Spider-man 300 is a grail I've never owned!
@@MintHunterComics I have 2 copies. One Direct Edition and One Newsstand. I was going to get them graded to see which one I want to keep vs. sell. Let me know if you're interested.
Calling a preview a first appearance is like calling a commercial for a movie a prelude.
Dude that is a SOLID metaphor! really makes you think!
I was working at a comic store back then and ASM 252 definitely came out two weeks before Spectacular S-M and Marvel team-up.
Correct! I verified this to be true in the video
I was also working at a comic shop. And I have had this same argument with friends, forever. ASM 252, the next week was SW 8. Then TU 141 and Peter Parker 90 same week.
@@jeffclay9484 SW8 came out about 6 months after all these
GREAT VIDEO. As someone who was there when it happened.........I cannot remember WHEN or HOW I knew the black suit was coming, but it was not a surprise to see that black suit appear on that stunning cover of issue #252. What I do remember was my teenage self carefully selecting and buying 3 copies of it. I still have Comics Scene magazines from around that era. If I find something there of relevance, I will for sure post it here. For sure I do not remember finding the news in any of preview magazines you highlighted. It was pre-internet of course, so I am thinking the announcement that this was coming must have made its way to the TV news at the time. This is a seriously interesting piece of history, thanks for putting this together.
Thanks for sharing Minuteman! must have been cool to be around that time - the best thing my generation had was Bane breaking bats back! haha
@@MintHunterComics All I can add is.....it was a magical time. My main collecting era was late 79 (Rom #1 time frame is my point of reference) til approx 1988. So many great memories still today.
If one person says that Spider-Man 3 is the first appearance of the black suit I’m lose my faith in humanity
make this a series man! I feel like there's a bunch of questionable "first appearances"
I'm thinking of doing that! there's a LTO of books people get wrong - especially with Marvel books I've noticed
@@MintHunterComics Yoda is another…
I think people just don't agree with what defines a "first appearance". Like how some people say Hulk 180 is the first cameo appearance of wolverine and Hulk 181 is the first full appearance.
Yes ASM 252 was first.. We were not worrying about previews back then. But NCBD was Friday in 84. Feb 2 was a Thursday and Feb 14 was a Tuesday. These books were not released on 2 different days of the week.
Exactly! came 2 weeks prior to the other ones in the "three way tie" so really it's the first app and those other two are tied for second!
Wasn’t NCBD not set at that point in time and that it was regionally dependent?
Thanks for segmenting your vids dude, again very informative and this is why I keep coming back to your vids! Love that internet introduction vid you added also ahahah.
Glad you like them! hahaha oh internet
They're calling it Heroes Hotline #"8312" because it was from December, 1983. (19)83...12(for December).
Ahhhhhhhhh that'd do it
Great vid man. One of my faves you have done man. No previews, ads, etc are 1st appearances IMO.
I tend to agree - depends of who you ask though!
I need to get a Secret Wars 8 because I know it will just keep climbing.
I don't understand the prices of that book. That's still like a $400 9.8 to me lol
Just sold one of my SW8 CGC 9.8’s for $700 USD. Will hold on to the other one I have graded, as I agree it will just continue to climb. Waiting for Secret Wars to be announced for the MCU!
@@tshew1 I bought an 8.5 less than a year ago for $100 it's now worth $250.
@@Tom8683-r2b nice.. ‘ya, it’s pretty insane. The ones I have, I paid $1 CAD for, but that was when they came out! Lol
I don't count the previews mags, for me ASM 252 is the 1st one. At that time there was a lot of magazines that came out but they weren't considered as a 1st app of this and that. We're talking 1984 when you buy comics to be read not for specs.
I'm inclined to agree! even with 6 prior appearances they're mostly the same
Well edited and narrated. Preview appearances ARE appearances, just not in comics (for the most part). You can call a preview appearance a first appearance, but not in comic books. The technicality would be, "1st appearence in preview advertisement/mag publication." So, essentially the preview appearance will never negate the "1st app in comics." UNLESS... you get a preview that is inserted in a retail newsstand or direct copy of a priced comic book (IE. ASM 365). Previews mags serve a purpose. Most of them are free. The ones that aren't free still are an advertising magazine, similar to a Wizard or a Becket for cards. But when a preview is actually added to a canonical comic publication, it blurs the line, and this is why ASM 365 is usually considered the actual 1st app of Spidey 2099 IN COMICS.
Do I personally agree with that? Ehhh... It definitely rides a fine line, but at the end of the day.... it still is.... just a preview.
Exactly - you can't say they're not 1st appearance as they are literally the 1st appearance - however most don't count it as it doesn't effect story. Most consider story effecting appearances to be 1st appearances )which I tend to agree with)
¡Gracias amigo!
Justo hoy tenía esa duda en saber la primera aparición.
Gran vídeo/Great video
Thanks so much Adrian!
I really wish I had watched this video a couple of weeks ago! There was a huge argument going on Facebook about this situation. I could have saved my fingers a lot of typing, because you have completely nailed it in this one! A lot of younger collectors assume Secret Wars #8 is the first appearance because it DOES show up in story form there first. But, for some insane reason, Jim Shooter had the Secret Wars book as a monthly title and had the resolution issues to the story coming out at the same time the first issue came out! So, as a kid, we were all trying to figure out what Secret Wars would actually be. It seemed like a deal where heroes and villains would clash and the winners would get a wish or something. For Spidey, he showed up with the black suit, which could do pretty much everything he always did except he wouldn't have to make web shooter fluid all the time. Thing became human and was on some alien world. It was kind of a mess. And by the time Secret Wars #8 came out, the symbiote had been revealed as a living entity and it made the reveal of the suit kind of lackluster. He was already in red and blue again.
As to actual comic appearance history, yes, Amazing Spider-Man #252 is the first. Those preview appearances are historical and have value because they pre-dated the actual appearance. But, as far as comics history goes, Amazing #252 is the way to go.
If this comes up gain, I'll just share this video and save myself some time.
amazingly put together video. always wondered this myself and interesting to see the books with sketches I didn't even know about.
Yes, ASM 252 was first. The owner of my LCS had a 1 per customer limit on the book. The other 2 books followed and were not as popular. I dont remember when SW 8 came out. I remember ASM 300 and I didn't get it because I didn't like the pattern of 300 all over the cover. Ugh.
Correct! And SW came out the end of the year, publication date was Dec but some had it in Nov :)
Dude, such an engaging video. Graphics are on point and compliment the dialogue perfectly. On your way to 10k subs and more! Any chance we can get the background statues (mostly) fully in frame?
I like giving little teases of the statues haha - but some times the shots are farther out than others
Marvel Age was the first time I saw the black costume.
This is the first Marvel Comics **publication** where we see the black costume, but it's not a real comic book.
If you have the first 4 Marvel Comics publications with the black suit, you are allowed to sleep.
If you have the rest of the non-Marvel publications that mention and show concepts of the black costume, that's great but it can't be worth paying hundred$ for them. But if you do have them, you are allowed to sleep in on Sundays.
All three full comic books were probably meant to be released at the same time or a week apart.
It's funny that just by having 252 two weeks before the other two gives it so much more presence! thanks for sharing man! still not sure about how I feel about all the previews
The sale dates provide the definitive answer, but as a personal anecdote, I bought both ASM and PPTSSM issues off the rack in '84, and ASM definitely was the first of the three in-continuity. I could be misremembering, but I recall that it was somewhat common knowledge at that time that 252 was going to be the debut of the new suit. I remember that issue being the first time I saw it, and this was at a time that I was buying comics every week. Pretty cool, though, about all the previews of the black suit prior to the ASM issue. On a side note, I had my issue of ASM 252 in my hands about 15 minutes before coming across this video. And as this video is playing, issue 299 (two copies of have of it) is sitting to my right in a stack of ASM issues that I'm rebagging and reboarding. Great timing for this video!
Hahaha I'm glad this video came out when it did!
I bought 252 off the shelf at my local drug store (where I bought most of my comics at the time). I knew there was a change coming to Spider-Man but it wasn’t until I saw the cover of 252 that I knew what it was. Had I seen one of the other covers first 252 would not have been a surprise. 252 definitely appeared first at my newsstand.
I wish I existed back then hahaha
Awesome video! A lot of solid information. Secret wars 8 is my favorite . It’s also the only book I have from the list you mentioned.
What a great book to have though!
Well done James! I coincidentally picked up an affordable raw copy of ASM252 and SW8 just last week at my LCS.
Look at that! tough time to grab those I hate the prices they've got to - but amazing books!
Lot of good research! Thanks for sharing with the community!
My pleasure!
Sometimes I don't even know which one is the actual 1st appearance, It's like if I see an old comic with the black suit spidey that was the 1st appearance to me! And that editor was lucky buying it for $220 lmao
Hahaha exactly right?
Well now that you explained it, I now finally know the right one! hahahaha
I’m new to comics, but wow…..you can tell the time/effort you put into this video. Love the content 🙌🏽
Thanks Ozzy! it certainly took a few days to make for sure!
One of my favorite videos of yours. Keep this up
Yo thanks Mike - I'm glad you liked it - I actually put a LOT of work into this one so it's nice to be appreciated!
Don’t count previews! It’s AMS 252, this was the first time the black suit was shown in continuity (it’s also announced on the cover) I remember getting this issue and thinking ‘wow, they’ve changed the suit-that’s a keeper!’ And then had to wait to find out where it came from when Secret Wars 8 came out 😃
If not counting previews it's def ASM 252. it even came out 2 weeks before MArvel team up 141 and PPSS #90 :)
My friend Jeff & I saw 252 on the new release rack & bought a few copies each knowing this was a world changing event, the other books were not out yet & the wait for Secret Wars 8.,,to find out exactly what was happening…that was awesome to be slowly brought along thru Peters interesting & odd journey & behavior! We were too young to read or appreciate previews & in retrospect, “knowing about the new suit” beforehand would have ruined “our” first experience of seeing the new suit on the new releases rack! I love this hobby! Be awesome! Silver
People need to appreciate the quality of this video and the effort that went into it. Hats off to you man. This was one of your greats and many more to come I’m sure.
Thank you so much 😀 a lot of time went into this!
I may be wrong, but I am pretty sure the publication date on magazines does not include the 3 month lag that was built in for comics newsstand returns.
It doesn't always but here it was a 3 month advance
Amazing Spider-Man #252 is the comic I remember picking up at the time where the black suit was revealed. Secret Wars #8 came out later due to delays, and was anti-climactic in a way. The cool black suit was some form of glop Spidey got from a vending machine that was supposed to dispense costumes. When Spidey realized something was going wrong in his life, and it might be his costume, he went to Reed Richards, whom discovered it was a symbiote, and sound could harm it.
Would have been so much better continuity wise if SW8 came out on time
@@MintHunterComics Would have made more sense, and been less anti-climactic.
Awesome man. Love the way you produce this. Keep it up spidey 🕷️
There is another.....Comics Buyers Guide which was published weekly had the black costume on the cover. With it being weekly, the possibility of it being first is pretty high.
Oooh interesting! you'll have to message me a picture of that!
9:28 Neither of those books are the “first true appearance of Spider-man”
lol
Great video. Does CGC recognize any of the other spiderman books as the first appearance or just the 252 one
It says Marvel team up141 is tied for 1st app, be we debunked it as we now know 252 came out 2 weeks earlier!
Finally thought I would have the “I own every issue in the video” parade, then you rain on it by bringing up the pre Marvel Age trades. Seriously, great video, those were the books that got me into collecting so it’s great to hear more about them.
Thanks man! my fav videos to make are always the research project ones - and I put a lot of time into this to finally answer the 1st appearance question once and for all
I always learn something new from you James!! I never knew about Comics Journal #85!!! Thanks amigo!! 🙌🏼🔥🔥
Glad this video helped!
Cool video with great insight. If you looking for another challenge, I would like to know the 1st full cover appearance of Darkseid. New Gods #2 has his face on the cover, but it’s not memorable.
Hmmmm good challenge! there's a lot of good "DEBUNKED" videos I could make!
Wow, people have amazing memories. I recall getting All-Star Squadron #3 and a second comic the same day thanks to my mom wanting to surprise/cheer me up since I was sick. And for years after I could still vividly recall both. But now, however many decades later, no clue. Even after seeing what DC released that year, I have no idea which was the second one. But, you know what, this video got me to have a vivid memory of that moment and for a split second feeling like I was right back then with my late mother, so thank you.
It's always fun to remember back when parents got us comics and stuff. I inherited a lot of knightfall and loved it all to death
Thank you for laying out the timelines on all these appearances and previews I love the history behind significant Instances like the Black suit. I like to collect everything around them even though they might not be high value. I do a similar thing with the previews surrounding Hulk 181
This was such a blast to make! thanks for noticing
Great video. I was a kid then and collected both ASM and MTU. I would go to the same corner store and buy comics weekly. I vehemently recall ASM-252 on the rack before the black suit in MTU. I know this because I knew at the time this issue would be something "big" and I bought five copies of 252, which I still have. About two weeks later, I saw the black suit in MTU at the same store and bought one copy, which I still have also; 252 was in the store first. When I saw 252, I was like "WOW," which is why I bought five copies. If MTU had come first, I would have had that same "WOW" factor and bought all the copies on the rack of that book more than likely. Thanks again for the video.
Thanks for sharing Eighteen! Glad you enjoyed and have a cool history with it!
Great research and time lines..and for me I've known about all the previews for sometime. And have been able to get them all....:) I'm a big black suit fan. The last book I needed and could never find any where even Ebay. Was the heroes hotline book. Good luck finding that one. And the journal magazine is a unicorn even more. I got dang lucky recently and finally scored the heroes book. So my collection of all the books you mentioned is complete. :) great job finding all the previews. Not alot of collectors know all that.
Thanks so much ! it took a lot of effort so I appreciate that!
#8 "Secrete Wars". Officially.....For shure. In one of, if not the most important story lines in Marvel history!
Great video man, this stuff is always so confusing... Plus you could throw in Marvel Spotlight 9 if you wanted to get crazy with it. However, ASM 252 is the one I would pick up.
Agreed! and thanks
The "Newsstand" link on the Mike's Amazing World site can prove helpful is determining when certain comics were released.
Good tip, thanks man!
when that internet advert came on , I performed what scholars call a "lol"
hahahahaha I loved your wording on this
@@MintHunterComics thanks , love the channel buddy :) keep going your smashing it
Don’t forget about ASM 298. First cameo of the symbiote wrapping around Eddie’s hand
Mmmm true dat
I remember when ASM 252 came out, but nobody is mentioning everyone HATED it. The black suit was a total dud. I don't remember anyone going crazy over this idea / book.
ASM 252 is the first black suit because it is part of the main storyline of that book. Previews are not part of a story, they are just a visual and therefore not first appearances. Even if the black suit appears in a story, it has to be part of the main storyline of that book or it is just a cameo -- like Hulk 180. (Don't @ me)
Damn dude, your videos are always so well made and always very entertaining! great video
Thanks dude! I put an ass ton of time into the research and edit of this because I wanted to solve this question once and for all!
Damn my boy! You went ABOVE AND BEYOND with this one!👏👏
Hahaha thank you thank you, I'm glad it's noticed!
If the previews are considered first appearance, will yes. But in cameo form. The Preview books is just that, they talk about the character and shows you a picture of what the character might look like. But what if you get preview strips of the story with the character, then would that be the first appearance?
I think it might! A debate for the ages
Great video as always James.I feel with the whole previews thing It's just going down rabbit hole In my opinion. I think as a community of collectors we need to get together and decide once it for all of what is the true 1st appearance Of the black costume.Also maybe having a category like 1st in print versus 1st in comic books.
I tend to agree - depends on who ya ask though!
I have a feeling the comic industry has a more than a handful of hidden blue chip keys that have yet to be revealed that they are saving like a pocketful of aces ...
Hmmm interesting (maybe)
Nice video, well researched, informative and entertaining. Also, nice shirt.
Much appreciated!
Ahh....flashbacks!.....my head hurts! But seriously the ASM with the AF 15 homage cover will always be the one people chase.
I feel that it's the first true appearance. If you decife to count previews though it's nowhere near the first app!
Great question! I was a collector prior to 1984, but without digressing too much, I never bought new issues! I had a whole stack before I bought my first new issue: 257. I remember reading that issue, in it Spider-man briefly thinks about the Black Cat and I thought it meant she was dead. ( I confused her for Gwen Stacy, remember, we had no internet then.)
Anyway, in order to work out what was going on, I started buying back issues of Peter Parker and Marvel Team Up. My point is: I bought Spectacular 90 and Marvel Team up 141 at COVER price even six months later, whereas I could not find 252 anywhere. So I can definitely tell you how the initial reaction went!
I have similar stories about how the market reacted to 121, 122, 129 and 200. 200 was in the Dollars and Sense (Ridgewood) dollar box, multiple copies, NO BAGS. As for the others...
I got Amazing Spiderman 252 in 1984. the comic shop didn't have preview mags.
Gotcha!
Awesome video, thanks for doing all the leg-work. I have MTU 141 and interestingly inside the comic there's an editor's note that tells readers to also check out ASM & Spectacular to see more of the new black suit. It seems like these three books were intended to all come out at the same time, simultaneously debuting the new suit together. But for whatever reason ASM beat the other two by a couple of weeks. I don't remember seeing them on newsstands as a kid, that was at the beginning of my comic book collecting and I didn't get my copy of MTU until after the fact.
A preview or sketch as a first appearance is like counting the trailer as the movie. Cool to have the sketches and what not as a companion piece, but the official book to me will always be ASM #252. It even says it right there on the cover, ha.
That's a great metaphor!!
Great video as always. First things first, I was born in 1971 and was actively collecting Amazing Spider-Man when these books came out. I don't count previews. I've never heard of any of these preview books other than marvel age. Comic book stores were not all that common in 1984. I usually went to one store and sometimes another back then. My regular store either didn't put Amazing Spider-Man 252 on the shelves back then or somebody hoarded the book and bought them all. Either way I clearly remember having to pay $5 for my copy of ASM 252 at a Comic Book show at the VFW hall in Villa Park, Illinois. I'm almost positive that the show was in April of 1984. I was a very unhappy 13 year old to have to pay $5 for a book that just came out. Every seller at the show had ASM 252 marked up just a few months after it's release. I don't know of anyone marking up the other two books back in 1984. Nobody had stacks of them out for sale. Everyone clearly had ASM 252 as the first and most important book.
$5 back then must have been a lot especially as a kid haha. Thanks for sharing your memories!
Given how valuable that Marvel Age 7 and 12 now are, I wonder when Marvel relaunches the comic to capitalize on the speculator-buyer craze that's going on right now.
Just you wait hahaha
Great video! I was always 50/50 when it came previews vs actual comic BUT me being a TMNT fan I gotta say I do like the preview appearances. Ie: Amazing Heroes 45 previews the TMNT and if I’m correct that was even sooner than Gobbledygook #1, I think it was even mentioned by the man himself Kevin Eastman. Loved this video dude!
Same here! I still lean more towards #252 as 1st app even after all this research but if counting previews #252 is the 7th appearance of the black suit! lol
1st appearance in a story usually counts as a first appearance to me, however chronologically I can see how that can be a first appearance as well. The 3 spider-man books do tie as the first appearance, which i bought off the newsstand however the first chronological appearance is Secret Wars 8, which I bought months later if I recall. Always wondered where that suit came from during that period until the secret wars series came out.
My friend Jeff & I saw 252 on the new release rack & bought a few copies each knowing this was a world changing event, the other books were not out yet & the wait for Secret Wars 8…to find out exactly what was happening…that was awesome to be slowly brought along thru Peters interesting & odd journey & behavior! We were too young to read or appreciate previews & in retrospect, “knowing about the new suit” beforehand would have ruined “our” first experience of seeing the new suit on the new releases rack! I love this hobby! Be awesome! Silver
Agreed! it came 2 weeks before those other ones. It's the one for me
I count previews as the first appearance. This is the first time the public would see how it looks even though its not a mass audience like asm 252.
Most of the fanzines had more realistic cover dates because they did not usually go through newsstand distribution. That said, I make no claims as to any release dates for them.
It makes sense that ASM 252 was the first official appearance because they put “Introducing… “ on the cover (and back then, editors actually cared about making sure that stuff like that was timed correctly).
To me it's still ASM 252
Better to take into account canonically where they appear first. X-Men Annual 14 and UXM 266 for first appearance Gambit. Even though the Annual arrived on shelves first, UXM 266 is the first true appearance.
Secret Wars 8 for mine is the 'true' first, but all of them books are worth having to be honest :)
Now this is true - it SHOULD have been Secret Wars 8
I was 13 years old and always remembered Amazing Spiderman 252 as the first appearance, then next for me was Secret Wars 8...
Great Video...It's absolutely ASM 252 though...it's nice to have the previews though for the PC...my fave of the previews is MA 12 just because the white parts are red which Jim Shooter revealed recently was actually a mistake. Wouldn't mind having a CJ 85 tho...but I'm a 9.8 snob when it comes to modern/copper books and that one is very hard to find in that condition.
I agree - I actually changed my mind about ASM 252 through my research - I thought I'd prove it wasn't the 1st app but now more than ever I'm convinced that it is
I have been telling people this for years! Awesome video James!
ASM 252 came out 2 weeks before - you're right!
ASM 252 was the first time I saw the suit at my LCS and I remember liking the suit so much that I picked up several issues which I still have to this day.
A great book to have picked up!
Impressive and exhaustive detective work on your part. I still read back issues of The Comics Journal and every now and then I think to look up a copy or two on Ebay. Several months back I was shocked to see slabbed copies that apparently had a tiny Kevin Eastman drawing of TMNT's Leonardo in it. Then I saw a slabbed ish of Roy Thomas's Alter Ego zine with the first appearance of Black Adam. To me it's more than a little weird and I would much rather be able to read the Joe Kubert interview for $10 instead of seeing that issue listed for hundreds. Meanwhile the same obsessive fans are willing to blissfully ignore that the first appearance of Boba Fett was in the Marvel Pocket Book Empire Strikes Back and Marvel Super Special editions. Actual publications of the story which preceded Star Wars 42 by months. The market is wacky.
These are Wacky times indeed! And thanks for the kind words man
I was around and collecting in 1984. ASM 252 is the one for me. I don't consider previews. There was a lot of hype around the new costume at the time. So even if you didn't see it you knew about it.
I tend to agree with you, it's just interesting to know that Marvel team up 141, and Peter pqrker spectacular spiderman are NOT tied with ASM 252. They're tied for the second appearance of the black suit in my eyes
Good work on the research!
Thanks! it took a WHILE! lol
I was a kid during this time and 252 is the officail 1st appearance mtu141 came out later. great content.
Thanks man! A lot of research went into this
I was only a kid back then 1984 . I did not collect comics until 1989 my amazing spider man 300. I got it now
You grabbed it when ya did!
I bought 252 off the spinner rack before the other two books. I do remember their releases being staggered like that because I collected all 3 titles. Also, there's another issue of Amazing Heroes with a black suit preview. (It also has a Turtles preview, so very good book.)
Nice! and yes that aligns with my research - 141 and 90 came out 2 weeks later :)
@@MintHunterComics yep, and Amazing Heroes 45 is the other preview. Great vid, by the way. I love your humor.
@@reedcomics8196 Thank you my man! xoxoxoxo
Great vid, bro! Personally... It's annoying to me that considering previews a real first app is a thing at all. Lol!
Hahaha it's not for everyone!
I like it simple ASM 252 is the 1st for me. I’m into comics for the story, the fantasy not BTS 🤣 so no previews for me
Thanks for sharing!
Not a first appearance but a cool black suit issue. Spider-Man had to wear his black costume during his Transformers 3 team-up to differentiate from his Secret Wars action figure due to toy copyrights. Technically his third appearance in the suit but it wasn’t originally planned that way.
I thought about mentioning transformers 3 but I decided against it - another cool piece of the history!
ASM 252 is the book I consider the first black suite appearance. Aside from it being released first it has the better cover which I feel breaks the tie haha. As for first appearances it tough. I do feel that there should be some guidelines to what is considered a true first appearance. Venom’s first is not 300. ASM 299 has a full page spread with his name. It makes no sense besides the fact that 300 has the better cover. Wolverine is another one that’s just as bad. Unfortunately it seems that the market dictates the first appearances. Great video!
I tend to agree - depends on who ya ask though!
Hey James thanks for the awesome video!! Just picked up a Batman detective comics 667 newsstand!! 🔥 thought you might be the only other guy that would appreciate that!
Oh hell yeah! Hahaha I always like DC books like.that!
Previews should never count except for completionist purposes. If I have a preview ad for the new Air Jordans, that doesn’t mean I can tell people I own the new Air Jordans.
I'm one of those collectors who was buying everything comic book related during that time. I have everything you mentioned, and paid cover price , including 10 copies of ASM 252, so, essentially have no real $'s a stake. Consequently, previews are just that, previews. My vote ASM 252 !
Damn man! you got it all!
I didn't know about the previews and now I need them lol thanks
Hahaha more to add to the bill! lol
It was ASM#252 as i went nits looking for extra copies of it all over but i was late on the week that it came out and only got 9 copies. Once i saw that comic i knew that it would be big. Then i kept an eye out for other appearances and grabed 40+ copies of SW#8. I have a few copies each of PP and MTU but did not believe that they were as big as the others.
I tend to agree - depends on who ya ask though!
I remember the 6 o'clock news showing the cover for ASM 252 hyping Spiderman's new costume. So for me, that's the first appearance.
I got my ASM 252 at a flea market. Near Mint. Me and my brother both... yeah, their was a WHOLE box of ASM 252 at least 200 issues stacked on top of each other for $2 a piece back in 2007.
Still the craziest story I have and nothing will top it. My brother knew what it was. (The importance of the issue) and told our Mom she needed to buy all of them... she said no.
Edit: I was only 10
UGH! I feel your pain Bro! :(
DAMNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN BRUHHHHHHH
@@MintHunterComics
He remembers to this day. People honestly believe I make this stuff up until I call him to confirm it.
All I can say is great discussion in general. I always think the person in question needs to be a part of the story/plot.
Thanks Craig! this was a blast to research and produce!
Comics Journal #85... Now I know... and knowing is half the battle!!! Personally when I was buying the books when they came out, it was Amazing Spider-man 298 (First McFarlane in ASM) that was considered the First Appearance of Venom. Then they got technical and used words like "Cameo" vs. "Appearance". ASM 298 vs. ASM 299 vs, ASM 300. I do agree that #300 has the BEST COVER. But in my heart, ASM 298 will always be, in MY humble opinion, the first appearance of Venom.
I think that's the first cameo of Eddie, not the full Venom but I may be a bit rusty
@@MintHunterComics RE: ASM 298 Marvel Fandom.com has: "Other Characters: Venom (Eddie Brock) (First appearance as Venom) (Shadow only)" It's similar to Wolverine's first Appearance: Incredible Hulk 180 or 181?
Thrilled both copies I bought at 7-11 in '84 came back 9.8 couple years ago, same with my X-Men 266.
Wow - good books to have!
Super interesting my man! It's very debatable. I mean, if single panels or quick references to a new character is considered a 1st cameo, wouldn't previews we classed as the actual 1st cameo?
I don't really go for the previews. To learn what's coming out in the future, yeah. But to collect, I prefer the actual comics. Because there's never really much of a story in the previews.
However, in terms of investment - if the market decides previews are gold - then for sure, I'm locking them up in my safe.
Thanks for doing all the detailed research. I did always wonder about the 1st app of the black suit. 🤘
I tend to agree - depends of who you ask though!
Awesome channel. I just moved and dug out my comics that I haven't touched but once since I collected in the 80's. I have the collecting bug again, oh crap. Anyway, saw that I have ASM 252... probably in a 9.2 or 9.4.. which is amazing since I bought it off the shelf as a kid and read it a couple times. Also had X-men 101 in a 8.5 or 9.0 that I picked up for like $10 in 1985. Kinda bummed that I can't find my ASM 300.. I think I gave it to my brother in like 2002 to hang on his bonus room wall.. good luck getting it back lol.
I just made my first submission to CGC ever.. 35 books, wish me luck. :)
Thanks auto! And good luck on the CGC submit!!!
I was alive and buying comics then, 252 was my first time seeing it on the news stand, thinking WTF is this?!? Then MTU came shortly after.
Hahaha "what's the deal here?" I bet!
Great video and great breakdown of the information. I'm torn as well on the previews. The one for the black suit is a very preview whereas the preview/first appearance for Spider-man 2099 is more in depth and you see a few panels of him in ASM 365. I say that ASM 252 is the first true appearance of the black suit, the market tends to dictate what book is the first appearance as well and this one has him on the cover and is just a beautiful book all around.
It's a great book. I do feel it's the tru winner. Either that or Marvel age 12
My first comic i ever bought, Marvel Tales #276 (reprint ASM #263) says Black Cat made him the black suit. I've never been able to find the history between the symbiote and his regular cloth suit... I've been confused since the Sony movies came out.
In this case, I wouldn’t count any of the previews, they each only showed like a 2 inch panel. Therefore, my vote will always be ASM 252. However, for the case of ASM 365, they literally previewed an entire 7-8 pages of Spider-Man 2099, so that counts for me as his first appearance. 👍
Loved the video btw.
I tend to agree - depends of who you ask though! and thanks!
My theory is that it’s all the cover. Hulk 180 has a Meh cover. It’ll never overthrow 181. ASM 299 cover? Meh. Team up and Spectacular Spider-Man? Meh.
You're right on here. I mean, c'mon, the Spectacular Spider-Man cover shows the red & blue suit instead of the new black suit! Get it off the list entirely!
That's not a bad theory! that's the one people will always remember because of the cover!
Thanks for this content, always worth the watch and love the spec on the spec perspective! IMHO, ASM252 is the book. The rest, including those previews not published by Marvel, sorry they just don’t cut it. I’ll stick with 252, 300 and SW8 as the keys to delivering this character. Main storyline was pencilled in only those three books… the rest are just by association, be it publication date or insider news.
Even though Marvel age 12 is a marvel release? That might change the game a bit!
@@MintHunterComics Marvel Age isn’t character story-related, it’s news, articles, artwork and gossip (aka industry Insider info) therefore shouldn’t count as far as intro, appearance or origin. Also think CGC should replace the, “Ties with Team up 141”. Team-up is true second appearance based on your research.
Hi Mint-Hunter! New fan of the channel and you've gotten me into wanting to grade books as well. I got an old fantastic four issue with a pristine cover (literally no blemishes I can find), but the interior pages have holes from a staple that's no longer there. Do you think this is still worth submitting? Not sure how much that will impact the grade.
Welcome aboard! hmmm, maybe a press can help smooth the holes out but not sure. Is it a key?