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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- If you buy a handheld radio on e-bay, in a charity shop or at a car boot sale, don't just assume that it is a PMR446 radio... even if it looks like one!
This video gives an example of a problem that could arise if you use radios that don't actually operate on 446MHz.
This video is not designed to be a "band police" monologue.
Fantastic video and an important message. It's also worth to mention that some of the FRS and GMRS channels overlap fire brigade ground frequencies (for example 462.5875 and 462.6375 ) . Whilst most fire stations have switched over to TETRA they often still use the old analog frequencies when responding, using the FRS and GMRS frequencies could potentially be a safety of life situation.
They use same freqs uhf dmr or analogue there set up is listed in another thread, but basically 1 to 8 is dmr, then repeated 9 to 16 analogue btw the dmr is in the clear
Riat fairford family British using family radio etc were on same 462 as the the command channels by the fire at the event for several years same family kept walking around chatting away on 462.6375
It doesn't say it is PMR 446, so why would anyone think it was?
I guess because it looks the size of a typical 446 handheld and the antenna looks the right length?
Most early stuff, of which the item shown was a foreign market set of the era, on 446 never explicitly was visibly marked as for PMR446 unless you understand TA markings of the alphanumeric codes type. It was later, when the T1 subset allocation was created (for personal license free usage) that clear indication (on packaging & radio) became mandatory for EU/UK equipment. Remember also, the original LE tier didn't permit 16 pre-programmed fixed channels as came to pass in recent years, but only 8 fixed pre-programmed fixed channels.
Hell, looking back on commercial lo-band/high-band VHF & UHF Commercial sets predating 446 era was a challenge because you had to decode the spec code to know what power rating it was, which band, which mode (yes, NBAM & NBFM was used) etc, and i did a crap load of that sorting through surplus gear seeking suitable donor projects for HAM VHF/UHF conversion. At least the Pye (later Philips) Telecom stuff had a halfway legible stamped code that didn't take a reference book to ID. Storno & Burndept stuff, those being the other main PMR market gear at the time, was way more obscure - never mastered that until i got a p/t job at a radio servicing centre which dealt primarily with those two brands along with Motorola stuff which they supplied/leased.
Mind you, having had a fair few 446 sets here to test, and many more faulty ones given to me to repair (which i could legally do under a SL ticket and re-cert), I've see plenty that i had to research and double check before fixing or air-testing because without packaging - some were barely token gesture effort in terms of marking and being easily ID'd visually as PMR446. In fact i ended up writing off a lot as they were barely certifiable even when repaired and probably were under fake certs when marketed - those got fishgutted for my spares box.
So whilst some may knee-jerk react by saying it's easy, it's not always easy when it's a radio with minimal marking and has variant sold to different markets - the one in the video, i've seen destined under different brands as well as Audiovox for lots of markets where there are more restricted public L-F and Licensed allocations.
A tip for seemingly identified 446 radios that can be reprogrammed - if the frequency slots (TX/RX) cant accept enough digits to support the 125 offsets UK & EU 446 allocations use, it aint legit PMR446 gear. Even some channelised fixed pre-programmed gear can be made to display the preset frequencies if you know the right key combo to get to the service menu or put into 'maintenace' mode. Either way, the truth reveals itself pretty absolutely.
A friend bought is some walkie talkies for our boys. These turned out to be tuned to US frequencies as I couldn’t get them to work with our existing PMR radios. There was no telling from the walkie talkies themselves
That 467 was probably a pmse user ie tv, film, but major events as well dnt tends to suggest was more likely an event
It's transmitting data picked up by data loggers sited on Electricity Transformer monitoring the use of electricity in that area
Seen a lot of so called toy walkie talkies on eBay as you say that are not 446mhz but obviously some unaware parents buy them without realising.😎👍
The uhf band is owned by the military and its only lately that parts of the band are slowly being released to other users , Ham uhf are secondary users the 430 to 440 MHz can be taken away from those pesky Ham operators.
Yes and still used by British and american military and government in uk many bases and us bases, and us embassy at 431 mhz other allocations for barracks etc at 438,439 mhz and well, still spot freqs fitted around 430 to 440 mhz
The fire brigade use ch1 to 8 are dmr, ch9 to 16 same freqs but analogue
And Ham Radio operators do not use illegal power
Most won't, but like with every non-professional category users, there are exceptions. Hell i've even seen evidence where professional market radio users have deliberately or were conned into exceeded their license (mostly marginally, but saw evidence of some wickedly devious excessive efforts to) to get a bit more range, and got away with it for years until eventually they got caught out. The pro users often got away with not being noticed as most true PMR gear, back in the day, had notch filters on the OP that were designed to attenuated the worst out of band emmisions, so if someone who demon tweaked the sets bothered to adjust the NF's as well, one immediate tell-tale was nulled or reduced to a minimum - mind you, the DT's were usually radio engineers who'd 'upgrade' the surplus gear they resold to cab firms and drivers. I later discovered at least one such outlet would sell the PMR gear to anyone - well put it this way, most of the customers were dodgier than the engineer/proprietor and he was known as a very dangerously dodgy individual outside the radio world.
And this ladies and gentlemen is why we have international standards!
All handhelds radios are PMR or PR, PMR means personal mobile radio and PR personal to the user at the time like the police back on analogue days they were called PR.
Actually - PMR refers to the commercial category of 'land mobile radio' usage-destined certified equipment, which also incorporates base stations that whilst not mobile are commonly used to communicate primarily with mobiles & handhelds & some RX-only portables. The official classification is 'land mobile radio', as opposed to maritime & aviation 'mobile' & ground base stations for. PMR446 simply refers to the allocation of a service on 446 Mhz and has commercial & personal radio tiers, where it's core reason for existing is the commercial aspect, the personal license-free tier ( known as Tier 1) came in later. Originally there was no T1 & T2, and no license-free scheme - all PMR446 equipment, pre to the T1/T2/T3 reclassification, required a license. Tier 2 446 expands on Tier 1, in short, by permitting fixed installation base stations (not permitted on T1, regardless of how you may 'base station' setup a 446 Mobile set as a base station in fixed installed manner), and allows for more flexibility through antenna variation and higher Tx output allowance and allows for non-trunked repeater use. In fact, a lot of early PMR446 HH's weren't actually T1 certified but actually was T2 certified (hence why they came with a form in the non-grey-import boxes for license application). So a lot of those Cobra 446 HH's were actually being operated illegally back then - at least one well known retailer had to retrain staff when the chain started selling the T1 stuff to ensure the staff didn't sell the old stock T2 Cobra gear as T1's. A consequence, was that same retail staff had to started requiring customers to fill out the included form as a term of sale and the retailer ended up submitting them to ensure the licenses were applied for on those T2's they were still selling and were up until bankruptcy finished the retail chain off. Tier 3 equipment, which is certified for and equipped for trunked networking with P2P and cross network/merged network scope, is pretty much unobtainable over here, much like T1 DMR446 equipment (license free low power) - most DMR446 gear easily obtained is either uncertified or certified T2 which requires a license (but reuse, by hams on their VHF/UHF allocations, is covered by a standing ongoing NOV applying to all UK ham licenses). If, however, a T2 DMR446 set supports multiple radio user ID's, and the radio is unmodified (so retains certification), the ham operators can dual program them with separate 'zones' where ham stuff is separated from commercial freq preset channels, with a different radio IDs used according to the zone usage, if a ham has both a T2 446 license and a ham license, one radio can be dual usage for commercial and hobby usage as needed.
Worth noting, re base station fixed installation usage - if it's connected to the mains power (generator source or the grid) via internal or external PSU, it's a fixed base station, whether on battery, generator (DC), generator or mains AC+psu and you erect an antenna, it's fixed installation in law and a base station by default - not permitted on T1 at all. However, ironically, if you keep a 446 T1 set (mobile or HH) attached to a carried external battery in a manpack configuration with a portable manpack arranged antenna (used with a certified set that has an antenna socket), and work a fixed location, it's not a base station because the setup isn't tied to the QTH and QTH power source. That's one of the few odd loopholes they never fixed - but as 'bobby dodging' loopholes goes, clever if devious.
Not very well known, but the actual reason legal CB radios required a type approval was due to an import requirement that existed on all monoband equipment (yes, even ham equipment still required a TA if monoband at the time), and for usage & licensing purposes, 27 Mhz & 934Mhz CB gear was classified as land mobile radio systems and because of that, TA was a requirement. Remember, also, 27 Mhz permitted use was never originally intended over here in the UK, 934 was the official intended CB service, the permitting of 27 Mhz usage (eventually) was a result of the influx of non-certified (hence illegal to import) gear that they were fighting a very costly losing battle trying to combat, so it was actually cheaper and more controllable to create a certified system profile & TA to match which pretty much killed the 'import it as non-functional' loophole and solidified scope for conviction of users/operators and defined what was legal/not legal.
@@christopherblackmur575 Was the retailer Maplin?
WH Smith have recently been selling FRS radios. I've done a video about it, and will be doing an update video soon
You bought it to stop others using it? Waste of time, everyone can get a cheap wideband transceiver now. I would have added it to my collection & not tx'ed with it.
Which is exacrly what I did! :-)
👍 👍 Thanks for this vidéo ! 73 from Normandy France 🇫🇷 Jacky 14FRS119
Do I recognise your voice from a podcast?
You might do... I appear on the ICQ Podcast sometimes. 73 from Ed M0MNG.
fire stations dont use 462 they use 457
The Fireground frequencies are around 457MHz, yes.
But some are split with 462 inputs
Also therss 450.1 464.1 x ch1 to 8 dmr in clear, 9 to 16 same freqs analogue
@@mpol701 they are not used anymore
@@mpol701 no they are not in the clear 450 to 464 is dmr and used on analogue you can use Chan 1 to 8 dpmr yes that’s different
Are you going to buy up all the CRT radios etc as well? 😏
Yes, too lecturesome
Sad hams
Nope, for the very obvious reason that CRTs are frequency agile whereas this handheld is not. I respect your right to hold the opinion that the video is lecturesome. I would suggest that choosing not to watch it would be the perfect remedy. I'm unclear as to how / why ham radio is directly relevant to this video?
Radio Karen
H I
So what?
Yeah that’s the spirit!! So what if I used this and caused you interference / problems / aggro?? Yeah who cares!! So what!
@@MrEdTraveller no one uses those frequencies in the UK. Plus the transceivers are half a watt, so your lucky if you get 300 ft out of them. So again, so what?
@@fredcatcreedy980 that isnt true fred, theres a video on this channel of a contact across the english channel on 446 and ive heard people on those frs frequencies. Yeah you might only do 300 feet in the city but try it from a decent location!!!
@@sussexscanner5115 What shite, I've had this argument on Facebook concerning half of watt transceivers especially 446 mHz claims of 300 miles etc. It's a myth, perpetuated by buffoons. If you heard anyone on FRS frequencies it'll be other people with these handheld transceivers. Big hint emergency services now wait for it use... Mobile phones!
@@fredcatcreedy980 why do you feel the need to have arguments on facebook? who mentioned 300 miles? You mentioned 300 yards before... you do know that there is middle ground between the two, right? you are correct that emergency services use mobile phones - "so what"? The transmissions around 156, 158 and 457MHz (not mHz) would beg to differ. But hey I'm sure you know it all.
Thanks for vid!
14-CT-016
A great warning video. You could easily interfere with emergency services.
73 M7TUD
CT-26-3289