At first I thought this was a Miles in Transit video and I wondered who could be more excitable then him. The I realised he was the guest you were referring to. 😂 He is very talkative on his own vids. 👍
I took the Healthline daily for 9 months in 2018 to get to work in East Cleveland. You’re right - the Healthline is not “rapid” transit because it shares the road with traffic, but the buses reliably came every 10 minutes when I was riding it, which is really great for a city that is Cleveland’s size. More broadly, the Healthline should be praised for advancing equity: its route connects areas that were historically redlined and have lower incomes today with areas of employment, healthcare, colleges, and cultural amenities.
I drove last weekend from Columbus JUST to ride the red line from Brookpark to Tower City and explore downtown. I wish we had some good rail and bus service here in Columbus.
@@Milo-nq9ep Actually it WAS built for rear door (and all door) entry. But a local judge decided that having policemen to check fares was unconstitutional.
As a "local" (I go to school in cleveland, you actually first boarded the healthline right next to my film school!) I've been wholly dependent on the RTA for the last year and have some thoughts on the video. Firstly, yes you are supposed to walk upfront to pay your fares on the healthline, it ends up causing some serious delays during rush hour where people all line up to pay their fare. There are groups pushing for all door boarding but so far nothing has been done. Secondly, this isn't the only "BRT" on the network. Per RTAs website, the 55 "Cleveland State Line" is considered a BRT by their standards. I take the 55 Daily, it's a BRT that runs every 15 minutes during rush hour 30 minutes during off peak and hourly after 7pm on weekdays (weekends it's not considered BRT). There's rush hour direction bus lanes at peak hours on a small stretch of the route, and they run custom wrapped buses but besides that it's probably one of the poorest excuses for BRT I've ever seen, but they do technically call it that. Thanks for visiting cleveland, hope you enjoyed your time in the city!
As a Clevelander who has traveled to all 50 states, I can say that I am proud of our system. We actually have one of the better systems in the US. The Healthline alone passes Playhouse Square which is the second largest theater district outside of NY. It takes you to two hospitals that are ranked some of the best in the world(Cleveland Clinic exist in Florida and Dubai). Not alone the historical cemetery who as someone else commented has several prominent figures buried there like Garrett Morgan(inventor of the traffic light). Cleveland was also the first city to have a train connect downtown to its' airport. By the way, when you were waiting for the bus at the beginning of the line in Public Square, you were not only in front of our downtown mall, you were standing in front of where a scene from the movie "The Christmas Story" was shot. Like anything, it can be improved, but overall, if you want to get pretty much anywhere, there is a train or bus that will get you there.
@@zythr9999 they are trying to build it up. They are putting more boutique shops as well as mom and pop shops in it. DTLR just did a promo with Nicki Minaj on Saturday the day after her concert. It was packed.
problem is RTA is a county agency, which isn't actually run by the county either. It's a layer of a layer, or a sublayer of government. They have taxing authority and answer to almost no one. Look at the top people there.. they are all former politicians and government workers from other bureaucracies. We keep paying, so who cares if it's done right.
I’m a student at Cleveland State University and take the Healthline pretty frequently. I thought this is a pretty accurate analysis of it, as RTA definitely overhypes the Healthline. I mean I think the Healthline is great in all (better than a regular local bus) but that being said the fact that the signal priority is clearly disabled between Public Square and E. 9th and takes forever on that stretch and that all door boarding is non-existent on this ‘rapid line’ leaves a lot to be desired. Just some simple improvements could speed things up and make service a lot better yet for some reason nothing is done. Well, “it could be worse though, at least we're not…. Detroit.” Also, for a future video if you guys want to see some truly terrible “BRT” you have to see the MetroHealth line on Cleveland’s west side and the Cmax line in Columbus.
The "MetroHealth Line" first of all is bizarrely named since there's already a "Health Line" first off. Also it's only BRT in the sense that there was some federal funding for it that had the term "BRT" in the grant proposal. :-) It's a regular bus! That's all!
@@markw.schumann297 Yea agreed. It's a regular old bus with some spray painted shelters, branded buses and yet for some bizzare reason RTA considered it "BRT". Its an ok bus route, just not remotely BRT.
East Sider here, the Healthline varies for me. For the most part it's consistent with it's frequency but it's definitely given more credit than it deserves.
Tried the Healthline this winter and it was definitely interesting. You're supposed to verify passes at the front. Additionally, someone said they turned back on the signal priority but that was not what I experienced. However, I will give it to them for running 24/7
There are a lot more ppl buried in that cemetery, Elliot Ness, Garrett A Morgan and others. Also you enter the bus at the first door and pay there. Also we have a pretty robust transit system. Ride the rapids next time
There could be cheap median high quality lanes in New York on a lot of roads. Sadly, in Cleveland, it takes 44 minutes on BRT, 33 minutes with signal priority. (Traffic takes 47 minutes) Some BRT creep here. Pittsburgh probably got points taken off for no off board fare collection. Cleveland might get points taken off for bad color of bus lanes and only going to 105th Street
I agree the Pittsburgh BRT is more like what I think a BRT should be. It is grade separated and has well designed stations. Like you said what’s the advantage of off bus fare collection if you have to go to the front of the bus and scan the fare card there. There should be a fare card reader at each loading door or just have fare checks done at random like some transit systems do.
I'm from East Cleveland. I'm just glad you guys weren't around that area at night...... you guys kinda stick out like a sore thumb. I hope you guys remain safe and careful out there. Good video!
As a Roman Catholic it’s nice seeing churches served. In the area I live in there’s a bus stop right in front of my local church, however it’s served every day as the church is in an urban area and so commuters use it to get into NYC, but I do see a couple of people after Sunday Mass catching the bus to go where they need to go to.
this reminds me of the SBX in san bernardino, it has well-built stations and dedicated center-running lanes but the fare collection is confusing, at least to me when i visited
@@ClassyWhale nothing specific, “evangelical” is the style of church I go to but im wouldn’t specially put myself under that umbrella, what about you classy?
I actually saw those stations on Euclid Ave during myt trip to Cleveland and I didn't see too much activity around those parts (maybe because it was the weekend). Cleveland's RTA needs a revamp, they have an entire line the Waterfront Line which services the Flats and the First Energy Stadium which has been closed for over a year & half now. They really need to get their shit together! I did enjoy the metro to the airport which is the best part of the system.
The ridership has been dwindling from about 1.5 million riders a day in 1946 when it was a city-only system to 50,000 a day last year across the whole region. Even in 1980 it was carrying 400,000 a day across the region.
We actually have 3 BRT lines in here in Cleveland, but only 2 of them run with 60ft buses. We have the Healthline, the Cleveland State Line (known as 55 running from CSU to North Olmsted & 55B/C during rush hour to Westlake/Bay Village) and the MetroHealth Line (51, 51A & 53, 53A). The Healthline was the original but I wouldn't ride it past Mayfield Rd, it goes into East Cleveland which is not the best neighborhood. The health line just replaced the route 6 Euclid Ave and we even used to have a 6A back until the mid 90's that ended at University Rapid Station. Overall Cleveland has one of the best systems, you can pretty much get anywhere in Cuyahoga County in about an hour. I'm local to Lakewood and I have the 26/26A which runs every 15 mins, and most other buses run every 30 minutes except a select few which run every hour. Weekends are a little different. I have friends that work at RTA and they are phasing out the 60ft buses except the Healthline. They're crap buses and hard to repair. There's just 2 garages Triskett (West Side but includes east side routes 2, 16 & 90) & Hayden (East Side). Prior to 2005, there was also Brooklyn Garage, Harvard Garage and also North Olmsted & Maple Heights had their own transit systems.
Thanks To add , Lakewood was one of the places RTA focused on to have more frequent service, since many people ride the buses. Save for possibly 53, Metrohealth isn't much of a BRT, especially on West 25 between Bridge and Lorain Aves. Ironically (or not) the 6 for a time came every 10 minutes. The 3000 numbered 60fts weren't that bad, IMO, and ran pretty well on the 22 and especially the 26 lines( I think 3017 was a favorite of some operators). One reason they may be phasing them out, is that ridership has not returned to pre COVID levels and sadly may never do so, so not much reason to have them. Harvard garage really should have been the bus garage for the East side routes. It made better sense, plus the operators could drive the coach back to the garage when their day was done, instead of trying to catch the rapid to get back to Hayden (unless on a route that goes to Stokes Rapid Station) RTA started its sad decline when North Olmsted and even Maple Heights were absorbed and the "combiner" routes (ie #50) were separated.
@@zythr9999 The garages have to do with the Rapids. That's why Harvard was closed and sold at the end of the day (Prior to 2002 you had 5 garages between Triskett, Harvard, Brooklyn, Hayden & Woodhill). All the relives are downtown or at a rapid station (except W.117 because that is closed now until who knows when - bridge is being replaced and I doubt they will re-do the platform to just have to re-do it again when the new trains come in 2026). As far as North Olmsted & Maple Heights, RTA was paying for everything anyways, their buses, even tho the employees of those systems got checks from North Olmsted or Maple Heights, RTA was reimbursing the cities. So it made sense. And of course there are zero routes left from North Olmsted now (in 2005 you had the 53, 75X, 87F, 96F, 64 & 263).And also the 51/51A & 53 Metrohealth line are no longer listed as BRT because RTA failed to secure bus lanes on W.25th. But research is now being done for a possible Lorain Rd BRT route, which would go from W.25th Rapid to North Olmsted. But research is not a done deal...
Thank you, this was a great video of your journey on the Healthline bus service. It looks like it was something that was started but yet is not, as yet, complete. It would have great potential in the future. The Sunday only stop is a most unusual idea, churches, I have been to have had services during the week and other meetings too. It may be that there are other places to visit or maybe people live in the vicinity of the church on days other than Sunday. It was great that you met up with Miles in Transit.
6:39 I will not accept this Garfield slander. He was a Civil War hero, playing a prominent role in the Battle of Chickamauga, and would likely have been an incredibly good president had he not been assassinated.
I regularly used the Healthline(#6) for about a year in 2012-3. At that time, all 3 right side doors were used for boarding, and it was an "honor system" kind of deal. Everybody just piled in and sat down. The RTA cops would roam through every once in a while (not very often) and ask to see your ticket. If you didn't have one they escorted you off the bus and issued a $99 ticket. That all changed a few years ago, well after I stopped using that route.
When I hear the word "Christian" my brain goes to those nut job televangelists like Kit Kerr, Jim Bakker, and Kenneth Copeland; and jerks like Ron DeSantis, Lauren Boehbert, and Marjorie Taylor Greene. Yet y'all seem like cool guys instesd.
What a fun video! Just a quick point, some the Healthline buses are actually CNG-powered (not hybrid), including the Xcelsiors that you took. Sadly I figured this out at 5:13 when you can hear that Allison since I'm a freakin' dork, but that's my own fault.
@@ClassyWhale I work at the Cleveland botanical garden, and sometimes I go to lunch in the area at 5:08! There are a few great places around that area!
yes usually a RAPID bus service is supposed to just let people board from ANY door and not have to scan their bus pass to make it run faster. periodically, transit officers might board to spot check that everyone riding has a pass, and if not, fine them. so its strange that passengers yelled at you to scan your pass.
St. Louis had a busway when they converted the Hodiamont line to bus and paved the ROW. The route was canceled like 10 years ago because the neighborhood had disintegrated.
This brt is the most metro-tram like system I've ever seen. Even the buses have doors on both sides! You don't see that on Select Bus or other brts for that matter.
The York Region Transit BRT system is absolute clown tier, literal multibillion dollar infrastructure investments for routes with greater than 20 minute headways, and in some cases worse service than what GO Transit provided in the late 90s.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Red Line in Indianapolis! It runs in BRT lanes for more than 50% of it's route, but runs in mixed traffic on the South side of the city due to RoW restrictions.
OMG CLEVELAND MY CITY :) I went to college at Case Western, so I am well versed in it. They generally expect you to get on the front and people pay on board, so it is so sloww. I get annoyed with that even on local routes (bus 9), you still hear about the "museum stop". It gets a bit old haha
So is a grade separated BRT actually good? It seems that only really makes sense if there's like a population center, and then a large gap where no one would ever want to get on or off, and then another population/destination center. Genuine question. Not saying I'm wowed by the Health Line, but I don't see what's so great about the Pittsburgh line?
Ottawa has had a lot of success with that style of BRT. A rider could get on a bus on a suburban street and that bus would enter the transitway and give them a single seat ride to downtown...that was before the transitway was converted to LRT.
The Pittsburgh busways are kind of like that, not because the population centers are spaced out horizontally but because they are spaced out vertically. The west busway and south busway even go underground for some portions
RTA is definitely kind of a weird system, but something about their graphic design just really works for me. Man if I used that bus daily for commuting I would get so, so sick of hearing about the Resting Place of James Garfield, 20th President of the United States
There's no way this system is better than Pittsburgh's busways. The East Busway is a masterpiece of medium city transit infrastructure! I am also a biased PA resident... Still though, as most North American transit, it could be worse, but it could be better. It seemed to have ridership, which is good to see.
The Healthline certainly isn't the best-executed BRT system around, but I appreciate its route. To add to xavieryozwiak5508's comment about the Healthline's reliability and connection of historically redlined communities, it also serves as a valuable connection between Downtown Cleveland and the University Circle neighborhood's Case Western Reserve University, University Hospitals, Cleveland Clinic (one of the best hospitals in the nation), Severance Hall (where the Cleveland Orchestra performs, which is consistently ranked among the very top symphonies in the country), Cleveland Museum of Art (which is often ranked as one of the top art museums in the nation), and the Cleveland Institute of Art and Cleveland Institute of Music. Cleveland State University is also right along the route. It really does connect valuable areas in the city, and it also provides service to neighborhoods that have historically been marginalized and redlined. I wish there would be some more investment in the Healthline as well as signal priority to set it apart as a true BRT system.
@@ClassyWhale Totally. Rail’s ability to be separate from road traffic and faster than it while still maintaining fairly frequent stops would do so much to connect the served areas better and improve ridership. Cleveland is quite fast and easy to drive, especially on Euclid Ave, so having a system that’s actually faster than driving could really incentivize transit use.
Too bad heading east, once one gets to say E 30th street to E-79th, there is not much going on, then there is the comical big drop off after going under the rapid and train bridges at E 120th
To add they old 6 used to run from Lake County to Downtown, but many riders complained for some reason, so it was split into the Healthline, and if one wants to go to Euclid, the #28/ 28A
@@ClassyWhale eccentric anti establishment figure. he did graphic novels about his life. was on Letterman a few times in 80s some where he Dave got angry at him. there was film staring Paul Giamatti 'American Splendor' that was mostly filmed in Lakewood
I like Miles’ channel. Anyway, BRT is a freaking joke. Other than fancy decals and off board fare payment, there’s no difference between a BRT and a standard limited stop bus. I’ll use an example. I’ve used the Q44 bus in NYC back when it was a limited stop bus and when it became a Select Bus route. There’s a marginal difference in travel time. The Select Bus gets stuck in traffic just like the limited used to. Yes, off board payment helps. However, it’s negated by the fact that you may arrive at the stop right as the bus is arriving. You have to quickly purchase the pass before the bus departs. The only way a BRT would work is if there was a physical barrier (like the Exclusive Bus Lane on I-495 leading to the Lincoln Tunnel). And in a downtown area, that wouldn’t be practical.
If I recall these bogus ITBE standards place a lot of priority on off-board payment in the ranking, of course this could hardly be called off board payment when you got to walk to the front of the bus to swipe. Amount of busway and bus lanes should be the basis for rankings.
The scoring was done before they shut off the signal priority and off-board fare payment. If the HealthLine got rated in its current form, it'd probably be downgraded to Basic, barely making the minimum requirements.
3:50 I'm sorry, but I have no idea where the idea that 15 minute headways are "frequent" come from. 15 minutes is a long time, and might be acceptable for an individual service pattern on a highly branched system, but not for a trunk like this. 10 minutes should be the bare minimum of "frequent" for an individual service pattern, but is it really frequent if its headway has more than 1 digit?
@@grahamturner2640 I know they had the bus for a while but only recently did they have self driving. There’s a video on it if you search it. It even has “tracks” like a train but it’s a new flyer 60’ articulated!
I live in Cleveland, RTA sucks, 24/7 365! If my job was closer I would walk to work! Busses are not regularly cleaned and a lot of the drivers clearly despise or hate their customers. Screw RTA!
No one is going to read all of this. So. As a driver of the GCRTA system I agree with everything stated. Basically. However it is subjective. 1) Some drivers do clean their bus at the end of the line prior to beginning the next part of the route. If passengers insist on boarding during that time frame? Doesn't happen. We are required to walk the coach and pick up large visible trash. Many don't and this isn't enforced. It's my workspace so I clean mine. Passengers seem less rowdy with a clean fresh smelling bus. 2) Many drivers are conversational and will share their "last night events" with you. We are only required to assist anyone with RTA related information. If you had a driver that's a talker on one bus don't expect it from another. That's clearly situational and individual based but we are REQUIRED to assist you not entertain. Yes a greeting is appropriate but I remain baffled at someone wanting another whose safety is in their hands to chat it up. I used to be told by passengers "Shut up and drive" or "get the number and talk to them later, drive" that now that I do that? I'm rude or something... You're blaming a system of drivers on the few you've encountered. Not taking into account the constant aggregation thrown at us by disgruntled passengers that has nothing to do with the bus operations like love issues financial issues their health problems so on... alongside a group of supervisors who are incompetent? Sorry for your experience. But no matter how much one claims to hate RTA I'd be hard press you find a system that literally covers as much of the county as we do.
What I mentioned on another video: The inside scoop was that the head of Cleveland's transit system wanted to get known as the BRT guy in transit circles, so he put in the HealthLine to make a name for himself. Any passenger service is pretty much not important.
The bronze, silver, and gold rankings aren't subjective. They're based on which specific features a line has or doesn't have. The MLK Busway in Pittsburgh is very speedy because it's essentially a two-lane freeway for buses, but it doesn't have BRT features because it wasn't designed as BRT. On the contrary, it's designed to be used by conventional buses that run conventional routes in outlying areas, then get downtown quickly via the busway. That alone pretty much precludes it from being highly rated as BRT despite its considerable merits. Not explaining that to your viewers makes you sound ignorant, at least to me.
If I understand correctly, BRT rankings are based almost entirely on infrastructure. Cleveland scores higher for off board fare collection. And from what you showed, it seems like the infrastructure is there to have a pretty good system. The operation is just bad.
I think people who want rail should support BRT. BRT is a viable and CHEAP form of public transit, and if more people use it, I think cities will have no choice but to upgrade from BRT to light rail or even a subway.
The Healthline never had true signal priority as it was cut due to cost overruns. Instead, it opened with significantly longer light cycles favoring Euclid Ave, which made crossing Euclid in a car or another bus line a major headache. The summer prior to my last semester at Cleveland State I had a job conducting surveys on the line and most riders hated it and didn't see any benefits over the bus line it replaced.
It is amusing that churches are very often overlooked when it comes to transit discussion, unless it’s a touristy European cathedral. Granted that different churches have a wide range of use patterns throughout the week, but many churches co-locate schools, daycares, offices, charitable services, soup kitchens, etc all in one place. There’s clearly something being overlooked by excluding churches from the discussion entirely.
I feel like Cleveland's RTA just sort of bought the fancy "bendy" busses that are meant for BRT and put them on regular bus routes. yeah, there is that one section of the Health Line that has dedicated bus lanes but what good is it if they disabled the traffic signal priority?
ITDP's standards on what qualify as good BRT are sometimes pretty backwards. They think having fare gates is the most optimal station design... For buses. Definitely take everything they say with a grain of salt, even if some of their standards make pretty obvious sense.
@@ClassyWhale I heard it would be opening in late 2023. And except for Browns games people don't really care about it or use it. It literally ends in a parking lot. Recently, I heard some local groups propose extending the Waterfront Line into downtown loop back to Tower City. Hopefully, that will eventually get off the ground.
Wait a minute... 59 stops in 6 miles, that's like a stop every 500 feet! And this is "Silver"??? Unless you're counting each stop on each side of the road separate, that's still one every 1,000 feet. So yeah, definitely Barely "Rapid Transit"! 🙄
They use to board at all doors with out paying on the bus but they got sued because people were riding without fares and they were minorities and got caught
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man, that guest of yours was nuts
Crazy bloke
At first I thought this was a Miles in Transit video and I wondered who could be more excitable then him. The I realised he was the guest you were referring to. 😂 He is very talkative on his own vids. 👍
@@baseballfan99You know that this comment was posted by MilesInTransit, right?
I took the Healthline daily for 9 months in 2018 to get to work in East Cleveland. You’re right - the Healthline is not “rapid” transit because it shares the road with traffic, but the buses reliably came every 10 minutes when I was riding it, which is really great for a city that is Cleveland’s size. More broadly, the Healthline should be praised for advancing equity: its route connects areas that were historically redlined and have lower incomes today with areas of employment, healthcare, colleges, and cultural amenities.
@@mwhite4764oh Lord…
I drive the bus here in Cleveland. It just amaze me how people come from out of town to survey our transit system
I drove last weekend from Columbus JUST to ride the red line from Brookpark to Tower City and explore downtown. I wish we had some good rail and bus service here in Columbus.
@@Davidgon100Clevelander here, I've honestly didn't like how car dependent CBus was. Cool place though.
I come there from toledo to ride transit and feel what a real city is like
The secret to understanding the healthline is that it was good when it opened. Years ago. And now it's not good.
Also yeah it wasn't built for rear-door entry even though people clearly can do that. In unrelated news fare evasion is super high on RTA
BRT creep, yeah, just keep it on the down low
@@Milo-nq9ep Actually it WAS built for rear door (and all door) entry. But a local judge decided that having policemen to check fares was unconstitutional.
As a "local" (I go to school in cleveland, you actually first boarded the healthline right next to my film school!) I've been wholly dependent on the RTA for the last year and have some thoughts on the video. Firstly, yes you are supposed to walk upfront to pay your fares on the healthline, it ends up causing some serious delays during rush hour where people all line up to pay their fare. There are groups pushing for all door boarding but so far nothing has been done. Secondly, this isn't the only "BRT" on the network. Per RTAs website, the 55 "Cleveland State Line" is considered a BRT by their standards. I take the 55 Daily, it's a BRT that runs every 15 minutes during rush hour 30 minutes during off peak and hourly after 7pm on weekdays (weekends it's not considered BRT). There's rush hour direction bus lanes at peak hours on a small stretch of the route, and they run custom wrapped buses but besides that it's probably one of the poorest excuses for BRT I've ever seen, but they do technically call it that. Thanks for visiting cleveland, hope you enjoyed your time in the city!
That riff on the Cleveland tourism videos was a thing of beauty.
Just wait for next week
Omg, I knew I recognized that part from somewhere lol, haven’t seen that video in ages
@@Acidlib "At least we're not Detroit!"
"... still not Detroit!"
There was barely any traffic on the brt section because all the cars use Chester ave which is like a highway with intersections everywhere
As a Clevelander who has traveled to all 50 states, I can say that I am proud of our system. We actually have one of the better systems in the US. The Healthline alone passes Playhouse Square which is the second largest theater district outside of NY. It takes you to two hospitals that are ranked some of the best in the world(Cleveland Clinic exist in Florida and Dubai). Not alone the historical cemetery who as someone else commented has several prominent figures buried there like Garrett Morgan(inventor of the traffic light). Cleveland was also the first city to have a train connect downtown to its' airport. By the way, when you were waiting for the bus at the beginning of the line in Public Square, you were not only in front of our downtown mall, you were standing in front of where a scene from the movie "The Christmas Story" was shot. Like anything, it can be improved, but overall, if you want to get pretty much anywhere, there is a train or bus that will get you there.
I saw Cleveland Clinic in London when I was there
Downtown mall? , it's a big disappointment.
@@zythr9999 they are trying to build it up. They are putting more boutique shops as well as mom and pop shops in it. DTLR just did a promo with Nicki Minaj on Saturday the day after her concert. It was packed.
Public transport is really easy to fix. Everybody in City Hall must commute by public transit to get to work. Within a month, it’ll be working good.
problem is RTA is a county agency, which isn't actually run by the county either. It's a layer of a layer, or a sublayer of government. They have taxing authority and answer to almost no one. Look at the top people there.. they are all former politicians and government workers from other bureaucracies. We keep paying, so who cares if it's done right.
that cemetery is awesome, Elliot Ness and J Paul Getty Buried there as well. Also there is a Tiffiny designed Chapel. I love that line, btw
I’m a student at Cleveland State University and take the Healthline pretty frequently. I thought this is a pretty accurate analysis of it, as RTA definitely overhypes the Healthline. I mean I think the Healthline is great in all (better than a regular local bus) but that being said the fact that the signal priority is clearly disabled between Public Square and E. 9th and takes forever on that stretch and that all door boarding is non-existent on this ‘rapid line’ leaves a lot to be desired. Just some simple improvements could speed things up and make service a lot better yet for some reason nothing is done. Well, “it could be worse though, at least we're not…. Detroit.”
Also, for a future video if you guys want to see some truly terrible “BRT” you have to see the MetroHealth line on Cleveland’s west side and the Cmax line in Columbus.
The "MetroHealth Line" first of all is bizarrely named since there's already a "Health Line" first off.
Also it's only BRT in the sense that there was some federal funding for it that had the term "BRT" in the grant proposal. :-) It's a regular bus! That's all!
@@markw.schumann297 Yea agreed. It's a regular old bus with some spray painted shelters, branded buses and yet for some bizzare reason RTA considered it "BRT". Its an ok bus route, just not remotely BRT.
Per the RTA website the only BRT are the HealthLine and the Cleveland State Line. The MetroHealth Line is not BRT
East Sider here, the Healthline varies for me. For the most part it's consistent with it's frequency but it's definitely given more credit than it deserves.
I think I took the metro health line (51?) Last time I was in Cleveland and I wouldn't have even guessed that was any different than a normal bus
Tried the Healthline this winter and it was definitely interesting. You're supposed to verify passes at the front. Additionally, someone said they turned back on the signal priority but that was not what I experienced. However, I will give it to them for running 24/7
There are a lot more ppl buried in that cemetery, Elliot Ness, Garrett A Morgan and others. Also you enter the bus at the first door and pay there. Also we have a pretty robust transit system. Ride the rapids next time
Just an FYI, the buses are no longer Diesel Hybrids. The NFI DE62LFA's were retired in early 2022. These new XN60's are powered by CNG.
There could be cheap median high quality lanes in New York on a lot of roads. Sadly, in Cleveland, it takes 44 minutes on BRT, 33 minutes with signal priority. (Traffic takes 47 minutes) Some BRT creep here. Pittsburgh probably got points taken off for no off board fare collection. Cleveland might get points taken off for bad color of bus lanes and only going to 105th Street
🎶 Fun times in Cleveland again (still Cleveland)🎶
I agree the Pittsburgh BRT is more like what I think a BRT should be. It is grade separated and has well designed stations. Like you said what’s the advantage of off bus fare collection if you have to go to the front of the bus and scan the fare card there. There should be a fare card reader at each loading door or just have fare checks done at random like some transit systems do.
Honestly you coud get dedicaed trains in that right of way.
No farecard reader pove of paymet.
I'm from East Cleveland. I'm just glad you guys weren't around that area at night...... you guys kinda stick out like a sore thumb. I hope you guys remain safe and careful out there. Good video!
As a Roman Catholic it’s nice seeing churches served. In the area I live in there’s a bus stop right in front of my local church, however it’s served every day as the church is in an urban area and so commuters use it to get into NYC, but I do see a couple of people after Sunday Mass catching the bus to go where they need to go to.
this reminds me of the SBX in san bernardino, it has well-built stations and dedicated center-running lanes but the fare collection is confusing, at least to me when i visited
A fellow Christian urbanist, nice to hear!
Eyy! What denomination, if you don't mind my asking?
@@ClassyWhale nothing specific, “evangelical” is the style of church I go to but im wouldn’t specially put myself under that umbrella, what about you classy?
@@sammymarrco2 raised Presbyterian, still influenced by that but not in lockstep with the denomination on the finer points
I actually saw those stations on Euclid Ave during myt trip to Cleveland and I didn't see too much activity around those parts (maybe because it was the weekend). Cleveland's RTA needs a revamp, they have an entire line the Waterfront Line which services the Flats and the First Energy Stadium which has been closed for over a year & half now. They really need to get their shit together! I did enjoy the metro to the airport which is the best part of the system.
The Waterfront Line has been closed because of a crack in one of the bridge structures along the right-of-way.
@@thedoeguy That's still no excuse. What if you relied on that line to get to work? These repairs should be expedited.
The ridership has been dwindling from about 1.5 million riders a day in 1946 when it was a city-only system to 50,000 a day last year across the whole region. Even in 1980 it was carrying 400,000 a day across the region.
@@Ponchoed 2000 they were carring 200k. Red line back then had 3 services but in 50s and 60s it had 4 services with the express
We actually have 3 BRT lines in here in Cleveland, but only 2 of them run with 60ft buses. We have the Healthline, the Cleveland State Line (known as 55 running from CSU to North Olmsted & 55B/C during rush hour to Westlake/Bay Village) and the MetroHealth Line (51, 51A & 53, 53A). The Healthline was the original but I wouldn't ride it past Mayfield Rd, it goes into East Cleveland which is not the best neighborhood. The health line just replaced the route 6 Euclid Ave and we even used to have a 6A back until the mid 90's that ended at University Rapid Station.
Overall Cleveland has one of the best systems, you can pretty much get anywhere in Cuyahoga County in about an hour. I'm local to Lakewood and I have the 26/26A which runs every 15 mins, and most other buses run every 30 minutes except a select few which run every hour. Weekends are a little different. I have friends that work at RTA and they are phasing out the 60ft buses except the Healthline. They're crap buses and hard to repair. There's just 2 garages Triskett (West Side but includes east side routes 2, 16 & 90) & Hayden (East Side). Prior to 2005, there was also Brooklyn Garage, Harvard Garage and also North Olmsted & Maple Heights had their own transit systems.
Thanks
To add , Lakewood was one of the places RTA focused on to have more frequent service, since many people ride the buses. Save for possibly 53, Metrohealth isn't much of a BRT, especially on West 25 between Bridge and Lorain Aves.
Ironically (or not) the 6 for a time came every 10 minutes.
The 3000 numbered 60fts weren't that bad, IMO, and ran pretty well on the 22 and especially the 26 lines( I think 3017 was a favorite of some operators). One reason they may be phasing them out, is that ridership has not returned to pre COVID levels and sadly may never do so, so not much reason to have them.
Harvard garage really should have been the bus garage for the East side routes. It made better sense, plus the operators could drive the coach back to the garage when their day was done, instead of trying to catch the rapid to get back to Hayden (unless on a route that goes to Stokes Rapid Station)
RTA started its sad decline when North Olmsted and even Maple Heights were absorbed and the "combiner" routes (ie #50) were separated.
@@zythr9999 The garages have to do with the Rapids. That's why Harvard was closed and sold at the end of the day (Prior to 2002 you had 5 garages between Triskett, Harvard, Brooklyn, Hayden & Woodhill). All the relives are downtown or at a rapid station (except W.117 because that is closed now until who knows when - bridge is being replaced and I doubt they will re-do the platform to just have to re-do it again when the new trains come in 2026). As far as North Olmsted & Maple Heights, RTA was paying for everything anyways, their buses, even tho the employees of those systems got checks from North Olmsted or Maple Heights, RTA was reimbursing the cities. So it made sense. And of course there are zero routes left from North Olmsted now (in 2005 you had the 53, 75X, 87F, 96F, 64 & 263).And also the 51/51A & 53 Metrohealth line are no longer listed as BRT because RTA failed to secure bus lanes on W.25th. But research is now being done for a possible Lorain Rd BRT route, which would go from W.25th Rapid to North Olmsted. But research is not a done deal...
Thank you, this was a great video of your journey on the Healthline bus service. It looks like it was something that was started but yet is not, as yet, complete. It would have great potential in the future. The Sunday only stop is a most unusual idea, churches, I have been to have had services during the week and other meetings too. It may be that there are other places to visit or maybe people live in the vicinity of the church on days other than Sunday. It was great that you met up with Miles in Transit.
6:39 I will not accept this Garfield slander. He was a Civil War hero, playing a prominent role in the Battle of Chickamauga, and would likely have been an incredibly good president had he not been assassinated.
Now rewatching this, That’s not a hybrid-electric bus. It’s a CNG Bus
Correct, it is.
You're lucky the machines were even working. Tried to get a ticket for the Healthline and out of 3 or so bus stops, 1 machine was working.
I regularly used the Healthline(#6) for about a year in 2012-3. At that time, all 3 right side doors were used for boarding, and it was an "honor system" kind of deal. Everybody just piled in and sat down. The RTA cops would roam through every once in a while (not very often) and ask to see your ticket. If you didn't have one they escorted you off the bus and issued a $99 ticket. That all changed a few years ago, well after I stopped using that route.
It did, because they said the police could not be on board with guns.
As a bus driver this kind of irked me but then more so i respected you guys viewpoints and opinions!!!
Best city transit planning will always come from the passengers!
Hey, a fellow Christian who cares about cities, transit, and the well-being of others. Let’s be friends.
Hey! I love your content. Shoot me an email, I'd love to collab in the future :)
@@ClassyWhale will do! Do you have Instagram by any chance?
@@Thom-TRA sure, instagram.com/calebtheclassywhale?igshid=ZDdkNTZiNTM=
@@ClassyWhale As Christian as well. I think great transit with great service, housing and places where all can thrive should be high priorities.
When I hear the word "Christian" my brain goes to those nut job televangelists like Kit Kerr, Jim Bakker, and Kenneth Copeland; and jerks like Ron DeSantis, Lauren Boehbert, and Marjorie Taylor Greene. Yet y'all seem like cool guys instesd.
What a fun video! Just a quick point, some the Healthline buses are actually CNG-powered (not hybrid), including the Xcelsiors that you took. Sadly I figured this out at 5:13 when you can hear that Allison since I'm a freakin' dork, but that's my own fault.
I love down town Cleveland
Some parts are nice.
idk why i had so much enjoyment just pointing at the screen and being like, "I GO THERE FOR LUNCH"
Wait where? And if you have that much enjoyment, I need to go there too!
@@ClassyWhale I work at the Cleveland botanical garden, and sometimes I go to lunch in the area at 5:08! There are a few great places around that area!
yes usually a RAPID bus service is supposed to just let people board from ANY door and not have to scan their bus pass to make it run faster. periodically, transit officers might board to spot check that everyone riding has a pass, and if not, fine them. so its strange that passengers yelled at you to scan your pass.
They probably did it before the operator did.
Cleveland looks like a nice city. I like it. I’d ride those buses for sure if I lived there.
6:39 hastily made Cleveland tourism
ITDP doesn't know anyting about bus rapid transit. If they did, they would include the 103 on their scorecard. Gold for sure.
Providence would be platinum
Not surprisingly, that glorified underpass isn't on there either.
@@cut_and_cover gasp!
St. Louis had a busway when they converted the Hodiamont line to bus and paved the ROW. The route was canceled like 10 years ago because the neighborhood had disintegrated.
Any misery you experienced was worth it for the Cleveland Tourism Video reference
Offload fare collection is available at a few locations in Pittsburgh, such as Atwood station.
I do like the rta system. I usedl it football games
This brt is the most metro-tram like system I've ever seen. Even the buses have doors on both sides! You don't see that on Select Bus or other brts for that matter.
Glad to see someone else frustrated with our "lovely" Cleveland transit system.
The York Region Transit BRT system is absolute clown tier, literal multibillion dollar infrastructure investments for routes with greater than 20 minute headways, and in some cases worse service than what GO Transit provided in the late 90s.
I'd be interested in your thoughts on the Red Line in Indianapolis! It runs in BRT lanes for more than 50% of it's route, but runs in mixed traffic on the South side of the city due to RoW restrictions.
OMG CLEVELAND MY CITY :) I went to college at Case Western, so I am well versed in it. They generally expect you to get on the front and people pay on board, so it is so sloww.
I get annoyed with that even on local routes (bus 9), you still hear about the "museum stop". It gets a bit old haha
Also, the signage at tower city for the red line is old, it has stations that no longer exist
Miles didn’t do his research😅😂
I see were continuing the list of people that didn’t do the research. First Jared, then the man in seat 61, then miles
Couldn't agree more. Cool tickets and fare cards are the best. Shout out to LA's Tap cards and WMATA Cherry Blossom cards.
it's like the 1T route we have in the bay area!
So is a grade separated BRT actually good? It seems that only really makes sense if there's like a population center, and then a large gap where no one would ever want to get on or off, and then another population/destination center. Genuine question. Not saying I'm wowed by the Health Line, but I don't see what's so great about the Pittsburgh line?
Ottawa has had a lot of success with that style of BRT. A rider could get on a bus on a suburban street and that bus would enter the transitway and give them a single seat ride to downtown...that was before the transitway was converted to LRT.
The Pittsburgh busways are kind of like that, not because the population centers are spaced out horizontally but because they are spaced out vertically. The west busway and south busway even go underground for some portions
Good video I know in America you will find bus rapid transit but you cannot find the BRT in singapore
I think Singapore figured out that rapid transit is usually better with trains...
RTA is definitely kind of a weird system, but something about their graphic design just really works for me. Man if I used that bus daily for commuting I would get so, so sick of hearing about the Resting Place of James Garfield, 20th President of the United States
Now that is what I call insane.
There's no way this system is better than Pittsburgh's busways. The East Busway is a masterpiece of medium city transit infrastructure! I am also a biased PA resident...
Still though, as most North American transit, it could be worse, but it could be better. It seemed to have ridership, which is good to see.
The Healthline certainly isn't the best-executed BRT system around, but I appreciate its route. To add to xavieryozwiak5508's comment about the Healthline's reliability and connection of historically redlined communities, it also serves as a valuable connection between Downtown Cleveland and the University Circle neighborhood's Case Western Reserve University, University Hospitals, Cleveland Clinic (one of the best hospitals in the nation), Severance Hall (where the Cleveland Orchestra performs, which is consistently ranked among the very top symphonies in the country), Cleveland Museum of Art (which is often ranked as one of the top art museums in the nation), and the Cleveland Institute of Art and Cleveland Institute of Music. Cleveland State University is also right along the route. It really does connect valuable areas in the city, and it also provides service to neighborhoods that have historically been marginalized and redlined. I wish there would be some more investment in the Healthline as well as signal priority to set it apart as a true BRT system.
I agree, I think it's a good route that should have been metro or light rail
@@ClassyWhale Totally. Rail’s ability to be separate from road traffic and faster than it while still maintaining fairly frequent stops would do so much to connect the served areas better and improve ridership. Cleveland is quite fast and easy to drive, especially on Euclid Ave, so having a system that’s actually faster than driving could really incentivize transit use.
Too bad heading east, once one gets to say E 30th street to E-79th, there is not much going on, then there is the comical big drop off after going under the rapid and train bridges at E 120th
To add they old 6 used to run from Lake County to Downtown, but many riders complained for some reason, so it was split into the Healthline, and if one wants to go to Euclid, the #28/ 28A
we have an even more embarrassing BRT here in Louisville, It does not even qualify as BRT by nearly every standard
I actually don't exactly think these are hybrid electric but I've ridden this route and got one word for this route. Long.
One of these stations gets blown up in Captain America Winter Soldier
What scene?
@@ClassyWhale it is part of the Samuel L Jackson/ Nick Fury car chase scenes. Euclid Avenue and Superior Avenue were used to film that scene.
You're supposed to enter the bus through the front door and then scan your ticket. Rear doors are for exiting passengers.
Which slows it down and can be inconvenient if the bus is crowded.
I just read Harvey Pekar is also buried in Lake View Cemetery
@@paulhealy2557 who?
@@ClassyWhale eccentric anti establishment figure. he did graphic novels about his life. was on Letterman a few times in 80s some where he Dave got angry at him. there was film staring Paul Giamatti 'American Splendor' that was mostly filmed in Lakewood
I like Miles’ channel. Anyway, BRT is a freaking joke. Other than fancy decals and off board fare payment, there’s no difference between a BRT and a standard limited stop bus.
I’ll use an example. I’ve used the Q44 bus in NYC back when it was a limited stop bus and when it became a Select Bus route. There’s a marginal difference in travel time. The Select Bus gets stuck in traffic just like the limited used to. Yes, off board payment helps. However, it’s negated by the fact that you may arrive at the stop right as the bus is arriving. You have to quickly purchase the pass before the bus departs.
The only way a BRT would work is if there was a physical barrier (like the Exclusive Bus Lane on I-495 leading to the Lincoln Tunnel). And in a downtown area, that wouldn’t be practical.
The way I look at it, if the bus isn't on its own grade-separated right of way or doesn't have level boarding it isn't real BRT.
If I recall these bogus ITBE standards place a lot of priority on off-board payment in the ranking, of course this could hardly be called off board payment when you got to walk to the front of the bus to swipe. Amount of busway and bus lanes should be the basis for rankings.
The scoring was done before they shut off the signal priority and off-board fare payment. If the HealthLine got rated in its current form, it'd probably be downgraded to Basic, barely making the minimum requirements.
y’all should check out the pulse BRT in richmond. it’s pretty much the exact same
It would take a while but next time ride all the busses of the rta
3:50 I'm sorry, but I have no idea where the idea that 15 minute headways are "frequent" come from. 15 minutes is a long time, and might be acceptable for an individual service pattern on a highly branched system, but not for a trunk like this. 10 minutes should be the bare minimum of "frequent" for an individual service pattern, but is it really frequent if its headway has more than 1 digit?
Talk to me when Pittsburgh gets reliable transit 🤷🏾♂️
Hello 👋
(This is me talking to you from Pittsburgh having taken reliable transit to school every week since August)
As a frequent rider of Albuquerque Rapid Transit, it definitely seems better than Euclid Avenue (except the lack of late-night service 😔)
I'm hoping to check that out this summer!
@@ClassyWhale If you like bunching, you'll really enjoy it!
you rode the slowest part of the health line in the beginning as it went around pubic square.....
once you get out of public square it is quite fast....
you got off at a sketchy stop too....
EmX is the better one! I want to see you guys ride that one. Even has a self driving new flyer!
Where's that???
@@ClassyWhale Eugene, Oregon.
How long has Eugene had the self-driving bus?
@@grahamturner2640 I know they had the bus for a while but only recently did they have self driving. There’s a video on it if you search it. It even has “tracks” like a train but it’s a new flyer 60’ articulated!
I live in Cleveland, RTA sucks, 24/7 365! If my job was closer I would walk to work! Busses are not regularly cleaned and a lot of the drivers clearly despise or hate their customers. Screw RTA!
No one is going to read all of this. So.
As a driver of the GCRTA system I agree with everything stated. Basically.
However it is subjective.
1) Some drivers do clean their bus at the end of the line prior to beginning the next part of the route. If passengers insist on boarding during that time frame? Doesn't happen. We are required to walk the coach and pick up large visible trash. Many don't and this isn't enforced. It's my workspace so I clean mine. Passengers seem less rowdy with a clean fresh smelling bus.
2) Many drivers are conversational and will share their "last night events" with you. We are only required to assist anyone with RTA related information. If you had a driver that's a talker on one bus don't expect it from another. That's clearly situational and individual based but we are REQUIRED to assist you not entertain. Yes a greeting is appropriate but I remain baffled at someone wanting another whose safety is in their hands to chat it up. I used to be told by passengers "Shut up and drive" or "get the number and talk to them later, drive" that now that I do that? I'm rude or something...
You're blaming a system of drivers on the few you've encountered. Not taking into account the constant aggregation thrown at us by disgruntled passengers that has nothing to do with the bus operations like love issues financial issues their health problems so on... alongside a group of supervisors who are incompetent?
Sorry for your experience. But no matter how much one claims to hate RTA I'd be hard press you find a system that literally covers as much of the county as we do.
Also that’s a CNG bus in the James getting off there’s the sticker
Do the Spokane city line !!
Good ole BRT creep, removing the signal priority promptly after opening fits the bill
Bring back the streetcar
My understanding is that it’s built to be easily modified into light rail/street car.
Lol, not enough development for that to happen.
@@zythr9999 too many whites in the suburbs draining the city.
What the Health were they thinking?
Any idea why it's called the Health line?
It runs between Cleveland Clinic and University Hospitals (and they paid for a joint sponsorship)
What I mentioned on another video: The inside scoop was that the head of Cleveland's transit system wanted to get known as the BRT guy in transit circles, so he put in the HealthLine to make a name for himself. Any passenger service is pretty much not important.
Facts.
The bronze, silver, and gold rankings aren't subjective. They're based on which specific features a line has or doesn't have. The MLK Busway in Pittsburgh is very speedy because it's essentially a two-lane freeway for buses, but it doesn't have BRT features because it wasn't designed as BRT. On the contrary, it's designed to be used by conventional buses that run conventional routes in outlying areas, then get downtown quickly via the busway. That alone pretty much precludes it from being highly rated as BRT despite its considerable merits.
Not explaining that to your viewers makes you sound ignorant, at least to me.
Maybe the scoring is like golf, the lower the better, so Bronze is the best score????
If I understand correctly, BRT rankings are based almost entirely on infrastructure. Cleveland scores higher for off board fare collection. And from what you showed, it seems like the infrastructure is there to have a pretty good system. The operation is just bad.
I think people who want rail should support BRT. BRT is a viable and CHEAP form of public transit, and if more people use it, I think cities will have no choice but to upgrade from BRT to light rail or even a subway.
Au contraire, there may be an attitude of "eh, there's already something there, so we don't need to build anything new."
Bring back the street cars
The Healthline never had true signal priority as it was cut due to cost overruns. Instead, it opened with significantly longer light cycles favoring Euclid Ave, which made crossing Euclid in a car or another bus line a major headache. The summer prior to my last semester at Cleveland State I had a job conducting surveys on the line and most riders hated it and didn't see any benefits over the bus line it replaced.
i am still jealous of your wannabe BRT
Wow Ohio! 💀
It is amusing that churches are very often overlooked when it comes to transit discussion, unless it’s a touristy European cathedral. Granted that different churches have a wide range of use patterns throughout the week, but many churches co-locate schools, daycares, offices, charitable services, soup kitchens, etc all in one place. There’s clearly something being overlooked by excluding churches from the discussion entirely.
You only judged one BRT.
I think the Cleveland State Line is far superior
It is, especially in Lakewood.
I feel like Cleveland's RTA just sort of bought the fancy "bendy" busses that are meant for BRT and put them on regular bus routes. yeah, there is that one section of the Health Line that has dedicated bus lanes but what good is it if they disabled the traffic signal priority?
Sort of comical part, crowded part is up to 9th street downtown and Cleveland Clinic and University Circle.
ITDP's standards on what qualify as good BRT are sometimes pretty backwards. They think having fare gates is the most optimal station design... For buses. Definitely take everything they say with a grain of salt, even if some of their standards make pretty obvious sense.
Maybe they water it down after it was certified by itdp
A9 in vienna manges every 10 minutes and thats just a bus not a fancy one.
Why were you in clevland
Hey since live in CLE, if you need questions I can ask answer you
Same I can help too
How likely is it that the Waterfront Line will ever be restored? How much do people care about it?
@@ClassyWhale RTA is currently aiming for May 2023 or the start of the Browns football season. It's busy during gamedays but not so much other days.
@@ClassyWhale people do care about it. It’s suppose to be open summer of this year with a stronger bridge support and be ready by the browns opener
@@ClassyWhale I heard it would be opening in late 2023. And except for Browns games people don't really care about it or use it. It literally ends in a parking lot. Recently, I heard some local groups propose extending the Waterfront Line into downtown loop back to Tower City. Hopefully, that will eventually get off the ground.
Wait a minute... 59 stops in 6 miles, that's like a stop every 500 feet! And this is "Silver"??? Unless you're counting each stop on each side of the road separate, that's still one every 1,000 feet. So yeah, definitely Barely "Rapid Transit"! 🙄
I think the sides are counted separately. It doesn't feel too crammed when you ride
They don't understand the meaning of BRT 😞
I thought that it was common knowledge to get on at the front of the bus and pay your fair and you exit from the back doors.
Yes, for a normal bus. This was a special bus.
@@ClassyWhale nothing special about any of the busses in Cleveland, I think you figured that out.
They use to board at all doors with out paying on the bus but they got sued because people were riding without fares and they were minorities and got caught
✌🏾
What a depressing bus.
Lmaooo