Yup. Same in boxing, BJJ, and MMA. You can train and get bigger and stronger if you want but without an equivalent increase in your skill level it will likely just hurt your performance.
@@mattsharkey8437it is, if you can’t do it because you’re injured with a torn ACL… what’s the best training for a marathon… running marathons… do it everyday for a year then…
I was Mark’s intern in Jacksonville. His understanding of all the requisite sub-components of this profession, along with his ability to coach/teach both trainees as well as other professionals make him so invaluable to this field. I’m glad to see an updated interview out there. Thanks for doing this.
Hi Brian, can I ask please if I can ask you a few questions regarding training please. I´m a brand new strength coach for soccer players and I´m looking for tipps and suggestions. thanks
trained my son in motocross. The largest gain was not the strenght he gained from training but the confidence he gained. It allowed him feel confident in himself when lined up at start gate. you cannot think consciously your reactions are slow. Subconscious is where your reaction has to come from, threw practice of repetition.
I am a former AMA Expert license holder in 125cc Motocross as a H.S. 17 year old and was ranked as high as 5th in the state of Florida in '73/'74. I was in very good shape as an athletic teenage boy who played all the ball and stick sports (starting at RB/CB on a very good varsity H.S. football team), but I would always get worn out near the end of the 50 minute final. I never thought to work out to increase my cardio and to put a bit of muscle on the absorb the punishment. After I hung up the racing boots I became a competitive Triathlete. Looking back I always wondered how much better I would have been had I worked out when racing.
Jay and Coach, great interview and discussion again. I took a class from coach at The Citadel. He is a first class teacher and gentleman. I hope you two will continue to have these discussions for us again in the future. Outstanding!!
You’re right, you are absolutely right it’s just somebody trying to come up with their own version of being able to go and make money at a high-level by telling a professional athlete what he needs to do which I totally disagree all comes down to mechanics and just going through the motions it’s almost like a dance to be fluid and flow the right way you go through the motions very slowly and then with repetitive action you increase the speed to where you want it to be. I’m so excited I’ve run across this channel.
I think the genius of h i t training especially with the rep Cadence Jay promotes, is the elimination of injury potential, and the strengthening of bone and connective tissues. I'm way more interested in longevity than impressing people with Goofy workouts that have no real world translation to better performance
@@defaultdefault812 sounds like an individual challenge you might have. I have had zero pain or even feeling like I'm going to damage anything since switching. And Jay has trained thousands with no injuries using slow rep cadence. It greatly reduces shearing forces on ligaments and connective tissue vs fast explosive movements.
@@christophdollis1955 4-5 seconds concentric, intense contraction, 4-5 eccentric. Smooth transitions between changing direction. No jerking, no momentum. Extremely safe for your joints, ligaments and other connective tissue.
This is such an interesting subject. As an Fyi, The Nautilus system of HITT machines from the 70's/80's were a set of machines that Arthur Jones invented were used by the Miami Dolphins in '72 during their perfect season,
Taking enough time off between workouts to allow your body to recover is often overlooked concerning muscle growth and strength gains. Overload your muscles with heavy weights to failure with a few sets..then take a week off.
Great video, wise coach. It scares me how many people are so clueless and claim to be experts. Personally Im not expert but its not that hard to see through the bullshit nowdays.
Mark is a wealth of knowledge, at 66 years old have found out the hard way on what is good for you long term and what will leave you worse off. Man is smart listen to him.
Great talk guys! I wish he talked about how many exercises for body part in a workout, frequency, what’s too short or too long as frequency goes. He was about to and you got sidetracked.
It is not the weight room that injures the athletes, it is the program design that cause injuries. You don't rehab in the weight room, you rehab in the training room. It is up to the strength coach and the athletic trainer to return an injured athlete back to the field in pre-injury form. They do not need to change their weight room...they need to change their program design.
The similarities between this subject and diet is interesting. Mainstream narratives about diet are so completely off base, and the realities of a proper diet are wholly controversial. The evidence is crystal clear though.
I listened to Mark speak in Atlantic City about 10 years ago or so. Very informative lecture, and very practical. Nice to hear him again on this channel. Kept me engaged the whole hour and a half. I stumbled upon this channel accidentally, I'll be back.
I was an athlete myself on 5 foot eight. I boxed in the heavyweight division at 200 pounds. I was very muscular and I could run like a deer at 5 foot eight I could stand under the rim and jump up and grab it with both hands and hang there on a 10 foot rim, 1988 I got edged out for the all New England that fight would’ve sent me to Nebraska for the Olympic trials
The biggest issue I have with this is he's talking about strength and conditioning for athletes who've already developed their S&C program at a high level for about a solid decade. So no shit it's less important to have them do hard strength and power training when they've already got that as a background. You don't do professional athlete's routines without their background and needs.
Exactly!. They have the based from yrs of training and playing their sport. Most people fail to realize pro athletes are good IN SPITE of their training not because of it. S&c should be as general as possible and let the sport itself and practice make u better at the sport.
@@MrSpicabooo True. And most of them get hurt because most “ elite “ trainers don’t know shit. I’ve seen college level trainers and pro training guys on a squat and I actually felt my back almost snap.
He’s probably meaning it in a way that since they’ve built that base trainers shouldn’t keep taxing their bodies. I really Believe lots of athlete in all sports get hurt a lot because of faulty programs and being overtrained by trainers who don’t know shit and are labeled “ experts” because they have a degree or certification on which they simply memorized a bunch of shit to get.
@@MrSpicabooo You act as if we can’t measure and look at a professional athlete’s problems, such as movement and strength deficiencies (especially with today’s technology). Everyone has their problems and weaknesses. We can absolutely find that out and focus on improving those issues to make them better athletes and more injury resistant (that includes microbiome and their specific genetics and thus make very specific modifications they need to make to diet and lifestyle). Sadly, that is barely even considered or looked at by most good ole HIT training devotees
As a life long physical training devotee and “weekend warrior”, and about to close out a 29 year career as a firefighter paramedic, at 67, … the pictures of those crazy movements were terrifying. That individual not only embarrasses education but physical training as well. Re the whole idea of transfer…I have, and this is anecdotal, never experienced transfer in the strict meaning of that term. What I have experienced is the ability to learn and relearn different physical skills more quickly due to my level of physical fitness and ok awareness of where my joints are in space as i perform a movement. For example I have never noted an improvement in my deadlift that could be connected with kettlebell swings, nor vice versa. Overall physical conditioning coupled with specific skills acquistion seems to be the optimal protocol.
Re: injuries in HITT training. It depends what kind of exercises you are doing and your age. I did Cross Fit for 18 months as a Very fit 55 year old and I did have joint issues just from all the strenuous Olympic lifts you did along with other high intensity body weight exercises. As A.J. Foyt once said about racing engines: There is only so much HP per hour any engine can withstand. I was in near world class shape and looked fantastic, but after 18 months I had to quit to save my body.
Gentlemen, thank you for the in depth discussion. Unfortunately you have fallen victim to severe confirmation bias. On one hand you say we should not listen to a guy because he has a PhD (while showing goofball PhDs doing silly exercises, implying that PhDs are useless)...... but then cite research studies done by PhDs that support your beliefs. You are not reviewing the research, you are selecting the studies that agree with your claims. As someone who comes from the scientific world- If you want to appear as a science based channel, you must cite all the variables and the strongest studies on both sides of the argument. example for your topic here: How do you build the ideal body size for your sport while increasing explosive power? Considerations: Must assess age, genetics, gender, and sport of the athletes. Does the athlete need more speed, more strength, or more size?... What PEDs are the athletes taking? What stage are they at with their physique development? These are just a few variables to consider before designing a program. The very question of "what is the best program for athletes?" is flawed from the start as it does not specify the variables involved. This is the problem with TH-cam- the audience wants the fast food version of training. If you want to learn about how to train average athletes you do not look at what NFL teams are doing as their job is to do everything possible to avoid injuries. This is correct when you are dealing with the most talented athletes in America (who are all heavily geared up.) To learn about athletic power & speed development (for average humans), you must study biomechanics, physiology, and the equations of power (which you mention). You will learn that too much HIT training makes the average CLEAN athlete slower due to the longer time under tension. Average athletes do not have as much fast twitch muscle and thus respond negatively to long duration TUT. A guy with NFL talent on heavy gear can basically do anything and still dominate (you used Warren Sapp as a good example). To compare these guys to average athletes is just silly. Also, Olympic lifting is not dangerous. (Check out the University of North Dakota Football Olympic lifting program- amazing coaches there). In fact elite Olympic lifters have some of the lowest rate of injuries. Really what you are saying is that O-lifting is dangerous if you don't know how to coach it (which is true). Football guys struggle with the overhead work due to shoulder issues. This is why they stick with power cleans which is the best weight training exercise for explosive power (if you are good at Math, you can calculate this using the equations for relative body power / watts per kilogram of body weight). For part 2 of this discussion- Bring on an intelligent researcher for HIT training and another researcher who works on explosive power training. Let them battle it out. Think they will tell you training athletes on gear is dramatically different than training clean athletes. Also, they will discuss the size principle of motor unit recruitment. If you avoid explosive work, you will not be able to lower the threshold of and or optimally recruit the largest motor units (on demand in high power scenarios like cutting, starts, jumping etc). The physiology of this is very complicated and thus warrants an entire discussion. Thanks again to you and Mark. Hope these suggestions help to organize the next discussion.
Your argument is flawed from the start because you're assuming that olimpic lifting transfers directly to things like high jumping. In reality, athletes who do high jumping need to train for high jumping and not for explosive movements. You can probably achieve the same results by doing HIT to strengthen the muscles and THEN train for high jumping separately with the increased muscle mass.
I think that a lot of commenters are missing the basic point this strength coach is making. There is no need to weight train football players like Olympic power lifters or bodybuilders, especially after a certain age or experience level. And the myth that maximum strength equals maximum speed and power has been around far too long.
Can you please show me where to find more information about the High Intensity Training that Mark uses? I'm a strength coach and want to understand more about why he doesn't like Olympic lifting and what exercises he does use. Thanks.
depends how well they're taught I guess... Strength, power, speed, coordination, mobility are required in all sports, which is also required to do "olympic lifts"
@goldenera I don’t understand. I listen to the 1h30 interview and Still don’t know how you would train. Except of saying Intense, the whole video was bashing other methods through historybut not teaching us how. Can you please tell me where to look ?
Don’t. Your wasting your time. What they are talking about is Arthur Jones’s old H.I.T. training. 1 set to failure with slow rep speeds and maximal loading primarily done on machines.
I would love for you to sit down and have a discussion with Garage Strength GS and Knees Over Toes KOT…. GS is big on Olympic lifting movements, power movements and KOT is about the increased pressures of a joint builds stronger joints and everything that supports this. The KOT specifically calls out increased performance through his training. You also mentioned injuries may have started in the weight room ….then you say weightlifting builds stronger bones, tendons and ligaments, so why wouldn’t Olympic and power movements do just that, build back stronger?
He doesn’t understand stresses applied and the adaptive responses created. Max strength is only one measure. Shearing forces which create damage are also what can create the responses of the body to improve the tendon and ligament density. The issue is when forces CANNOT be properly absorbed at particular ranges of motion, in particular positions, and when compensation occurs allowing stresses to inappropriately go into a particular tendon or ligament on a consistent basis. That is how this damage is created. A shearing force appropriately put on a joint, as Ben Patrick demonstrates, will result in stronger more resilient tendons and ligaments. It isn’t about “sport specificity”, or motor control in respects to their sport as these guys are referencing or believing, it is putting stresses that result in the appropriate adaptation you want. All they understand is “do HIT training” and your sport. They don’t seem to understand what is being done through other training techniques. Such as training your Vestibular system and so many other things that can be done. The issue they don’t seem to grasp is that training in a HIT fashion is just one of many tools, and not always the appropriate tool for that particular athlete at that particular time. Most people completely miss neurological components and responses to training and they don’t understand how important mobility, stability, neuromuscular firing patterns, compensation patterns, rate of force development, etc.. when looking at athletic development, training, and injury. Understanding how different types of training, like extreme slow, iso-metrics, eccentrics, plyometrics, maximal loading, high velocity training, maximal ROM, etc.. can ALL be used to help and get different neuromuscular and musculoskeletal responses.
I just started watching this... about a month and a half ago at 47 years old I pulled the biggest deadlift of my life. Granted I haven't try to deadlift anything since high school. I was a rock climber a surfer I fought in the cage. But 650 apparently is good for an old man even in the NFL. So let's see I'll start watching
Would like to here what he thinks about Herschel Walker. His program is all bodyweight even when he played in the NFL. Also his diet in college was 6 to 7 Snicker Bars at night. He eats one meal a day in the evening and almost no meat.
Jay and some future podcast go over" Grip strength" how to do it and how important it is !!! PS.. interview was just off the planet huge formation👍👍👍👍❗
This is one of the best things for grip strength, get a little bit of a thick rope, tied up in a tree rope in the gym and climb that every day you might have to start climbing with your legs wrapped around it, going up a little bit of the time, but eventually do it to where you have walk yourself all the way up the rope, and then all the way back down. I learned this from one of my Cuban friends that was an Olympic wrestler. He had very small hands and that’s what the coaches of Cuba have him to do. He was so strong with his grip that his fingers were short, but he could grab you, even if you were sweaty, and you couldn’t pull away from him.
Im so angry hearing this. The reason I never became a PT was my instructor told me that trainers didn't just teach people how to strength train, but also helped improve athletes develop their skills. Now I learn there's no correlation between strength training and athletic performance aside from general health improvement like bone density ect
This was a great interview! I'll be sharing this with a former pro quarterback I met at the gym, who's currently an offensive football coach at a local university. If he likes what he hears, perhaps he'll share it with his strength coach too. By the way, the only question I wish Jay would have asked is how many exercises per muscle group Mark used with his athletes, with the one set to positive failure protocol. I personally get great results using two exercises for each muscle group, but believe one set likely would work just as good. Thanks for the great content, Jay!
All of this baloney is only applicable when training a huge group of football players with limited time. Look how the Soviet Union trained it’s athletes. No one was afraid of ‘over training’. One set till failure is baloney.
Arthur Jones’s old H.I.T. training. 1 set to failure with slow rep speeds and maximal loading primarily done on machines. Not “HIIT” which is high intensity interval training.
Love Mark, very knowledgeable and well spoken. This will probably be an unpopular opinion but jay just comes off as a know it all, cocky(talks a lot about himself) and not very smart. When researching Jay, he doesn’t say anything that any good trainer doesn’t already know…not informative at all. I also laugh at the resentment toward Joel seedman when Jay talks about the same cadence and pace he does in his videos. I’m not a huge Joel guy but he almost never says…this is going to directly translate to the field or court. He talks a lot about eccentric training…so he didn’t give Mark all of the info and it just came off as Jay trying to make himself look smart. He lost all credibility when he said…I think all of the football players are the strongest and fastest they will ever be at the combine. I mean these kids are 20-22 years old…he’s telling everyone that they can’t and won’t get any faster or stronger….come on man. Thank god Mark corrected him on that amongst other things
I’m actually a huge fan of Joel Seedman. People miss all the little things he does well and correctly because they just see the few “crazy looking” exercises which Joel himself admits aren’t a major component of his programs. Not to mention that some people are extremely emotionally invested into ATG squats as if it’s a measure of their manhood somehow
How can you say “There is not one bit of literature in the scientific evidence that links an increase in strength to an increase in performance”?Strength development is linked to faster sprint speeds, higher vertical jumps, CoD, etc. I understand that maybe it doesn’t add yards to a stat sheet but that’s not because performance didn’t improve. There more variables in play with stats, than there is performance. Bad play-calling, missed assignments, game management, can affect stats. But by and large, faster and more explosive athletes perform better than slower and less explosive athletes. And there’s plenty of scientific literature to back that claim.
I was a personal trainer for years in the late 90s early 2000s and I taught one set to failure, less is more and I got the same reaction from the other trainers and managers.
When I was in high school I ran a 5 second 40 at 155lbs. At 32 I ran a 4.5 40 from my belly at 225 pounds. So keep sprinting, strength does help speed. And yes, back then I was already doing HIT for couple of years. I performed this while I was in a Federal Agency Academy and have documented proof by way of certificate rewarding me because I broke the academy record at the time.
I grew up in Nebraska, played freshman football at Nebraska in 1984 and was a intern asst strength coach for Boyd Epley in 1990. Every player lifted there and lifted heavy. I watched Dave Rimmington, Mark Trainiwich, Harry Grimminger, Dean Steinkuhlar all clean, squat and bench massive weights. The skill positions did the same thing and Boyd Epley had years and years of testing data to prove increasing lean muscle mass through this type of strength training produced results. Boyd Epley was a "free weight" guy and this guy is a HIT guy they'll never agree with each other but for this guy to say none of the players lifted and it didn't produce anything is just plain wrong. I was there and did it, watched it and coached it. Football coaches don't keep strength coaches that injure players and make them slower. Boyd stayed at Nebraska and produced results for many years before he retired, not too many coaches start and end they're career at one program.
Hey John could not agree more. Strength and Power training programming has produced many decades of data from around the world. If done properly, this data strongly supports the use of heavy / explosive lifting when dealing with power sport athletes. Boyd Epley has 2 books on Amazon- good reads. Our current problem is that people want to learn how to train through TH-cam. Whereas proper lifting is too complex to learn without a pro coach, so people fall back on HIT training or bodybuilding then claim that "lifting" makes athletes slow and bulky.
What the deal with Bucs wideouts having repetitive hamstring injuries they fight through all year? Namely Chris Godwin and especially Mike Evans (every year)
It is absurd to talk about NFL training without highlighting the use of PEDs. Also, in the NFL you are dealing with the most naturally fast athletes in America (most on heavy gear). Once they reach the NFL the emphasis shifts to injury prevention. If you don't teach explosive strength/ sprint work / plyometrics to average athletes they have little chance of making large improvements in athletic power.
This is a very naive reply. Professional football is a business. The more wins a team has, the more profit that is made. To infer that once an athlete makes the NFL that they don’t need to increase their power and performance, is naive and lacks reality. This argument still does not justify prescribing orthopedically dangerous exercises like plyometrics, power cleans, snatches and their derivatives. Exercise should always ENHANCE HEALTH never should it ENDANGER HEALTH. End of discussion.
@@markasanovich So exercises done by 90% of all olympic athletes are health endangering? Man, you're just a clown 🤡 And you're a S&C in American football, one of the most health damaging sports in existence...
@@AlexandarShmex Certainly an intelligent argument “if everyone is doing it, then it must be right”. Equally intelligent is the use of name-calling. By dismissing me as a “clown”, you let yourself off the hook of taking a critical and reflective look at the facts. Way to take the high road🫵🏻
@@markasanovich Well maybe it's a bit unprofessional, but it's not wrong. And it's not a case "if everyone is doing it, then it must be right", but a case of "if olympic athletes, that are 1% of 1% of professional athletes, who have an imperative to perform, since their results provide most of their opportunities for income, but also for their coaches and team, then it must be right". These people aren't going to risk their careers and income through inefficient and dangerous training methods. The facts are not on your side Mark, simply because plyometrics, power cleans, snatches not so much, were, are and will be used by olympic gold winners in sports ranging from figure skating to basketball. This is the facts we're looking at, not "academic research", graphs and new "proofs" that come by the day. As someone already mentioned, weighlifting is one of the sports with the lowest injury rates, one study puts it at 0.0017 injuries per 100,000 hours of participation, while track and field had 0.570. There are many other studies pointing to the same results. I am also a chiropractor/physical therapist, alongside having a master's degree in S&C in professional sports, and the most injured athletes that come to my office are (non-American) football and basketball players. We're looking at what the most successful athletes are doing and most are doing the exercises you dismiss. I'm going to trust their results and their coaches more than I'm going to trust you, it's simple as that. I also see that your experience is mostly based on American football, which is a very specific sport that has no global character, it's played seriously only in the USA, so that's also a red flag. So, there are certain risks with all power and strength building movements, especially in plyometric exercises, but with good programming and attention to detail, it will be used as intended, at the right time, which reduces the injury possibility greatly. What I can guarantee, that elite athletes are not going to be switching to HIT method(s) of training anytime soon.
@@AlexandarShmex You miss the point completely. The point is NOT to trust me. The point is NOT to trust what genetically-gifted gold medal athletes do. The point is NOT to debate for sake of debating. The point is doing what is best for our kids, our clients ... those individuals that have entrusted their health to our care. As a health care professional, you have a fiduciary obligation to "Above all Else, First Do NO HARM". Thus, when it comes to the prescription of exercise, if you know an exercise to be potentially dangerous ... you don't do it ... or you default to the safer alternative ... PERIOD! It's as simple as that. To resign yourself to the fact that just because the uninformed, genetic elite continue to clean, snatch and jump over boxes justifies your promotion of orthopedically dangerous exercise instead of taking an unbiased, critical look at, as you say ""academic research", graphs and new "proofs" that come by the day ... is naïve at best and criminally incriminating at worst. It is very apparent from your discourse that you are sentimentally and emotionally invested in your practices and opinions. It is also apparent that no matter what continues as these string of endless replies ... your mind is made up. That being the case, to further beat a dead horse is pointless and time consuming. I will end by saying ... I appreciated the discourse and wish you success in your practice.
I had motor learning/development…maybe 3-4 courses and didn’t know how to use “transfer” most of that info to real life. Helped me more working with my autistic son but they didn’t do a very good job of connecting motor learning or biomechanics to training or rehab…
Jay you know I love HIT but would want to know what you’d say about Basketball players and how the skill acquisition for that sport transfers so well to other sports? I’ve coached kids who’ve never played a sport like football in their lives but can often walk right on the field and play if they’re b-ball players.
It is simple. Playing Basketball develops quick twitch abilities, the ability to stop on a dime, cut left-right-forward-back, accelerate quickly, and most important of all, absorbing lots of force from jumping and landing hundreds of times during a game. The only thing HIT training does well is help develop stronger more resilient tissues, but if that is all you do for training you are going to make your athletes slow as f-ck! You can easily incorporate this type of training into blocks (TRI-phasic training is a better way of doing this and a perfect example) when prepping the body’s tissues to better handle the demands of high velocity activities that you need to train to become faster and more explosive. Training HIT training ONLY for sports is about as good as training Yoga ONLY for sports. It is only looking at one aspect and one type of strength when many can be needed depending on the given sport.
Interesting discussion - Thanks for doing it! Mark says around 12:30 that there is no evidence of increasing strength and performance. If you look at throwers in the hammer or shot put (track and field) you have to incline press over 350 to have any kind of shot at reaching the podium if not more. In Bobsled, you need to be able to squat at least 440 pounds in order to make the team because you won't be strong enough to overcome inertia to push the sled. There are physical attributes in most sports (including football) that are needed to be achieved in order to at least compete. Those physical attributes especially strength is what Mark has spent is whole professional life trying to help his athletes achieve, so I am not sure what he is saying here.
@@utewbd But that's a complete delusion. You will never be a successful shot putter without a very strong back squat, c/j, inline and regular bench press. And you will not build sufficient muscle mass, nor strength by throwing only.
No no no. He’s saying strength training is crucial. But Olympic lifting is deteriorating on the joints and connective tissue and won’t make you better on the field that traditional or HIT weight training yet will make you much more vulnerable to injuries
He clearly says “get them stronger, get them skilled and get them smarter”. There are way more NON contact injuries in all sports. I absolutely believe that’s bc of todays overtraining of jumping and explosive/max speed and Olympic training
@@darrendigiacomo6889 And please define “get them stronger”, that can be very broad unless people understand specifics. And the non-contact injuries are not necessarily from “over-training”, that is a very big assumption. Many of those people could in fact be undertrained (especially with the particular area injured). Just give me a video of someone running and you can easily see how weak they are at handling forces and even what areas they are more likely to have problems with. It doesn’t matter if they are elite at their sport skill, it is highly visible with most all of them. One of the biggest problems I see that we have is that people are becoming too specialized in a sport which creates significant muscle imbalances that can lead to injury. This can also be problematic because of the compensation patterns that become so ingrained because of their constant repetition and thus the degradation of particular connective tissues. And if we get into diet, sleep, genetic abilities to detoxify, etc… then we have even more factors to look at. The simple fact is this, injuries occur when one’s ability to absorb forces within that particular range of motion and with those particular muscles and connective tissues, is exceeded. Lots of things can factor into this, fatigue or previous muscle/connective tissue damage from overtraining is just one of those things.
Great topic. Science, bro-science, genetics. With all of the money spent on sports, it is embarrassing how poor we are at properly training athletes. I don’t think it needs to be so complicated. The SAID principle is the best: want to get better at an event, train that event and rest. Strength train as an adjunct. Also, I am no expert, but it seems to me that training to failure has its own risks. In my own experience, I have made good strength gains stopping well before failure.
Glad to hear olympic lifts don't really translate well. Especially when I wanna hit and kick harder. The striking specific training is tough enough, without learning such technical and demanding lifts. I did not notice much improvement after doing them for a year. The basic compound lifts are enough and more feasible IMO.
Top NCAA Football teams, like the University of Michigan, players enter the locker room after practices by walking through an cold/ice plunge. These players use cold/ice plunges on a very regular basis, but there is evidence that this masks initial signs of an injury by reducing inflammation and masking pain while also limiting the benefits of the adaptation phase during heavy lifting/training cycles. Are NFL Teams using cold/ice plunge baths as often?
According to him Olympic weightlifting doesn't increase speed and power correct. Well how come Olympic weightlifting are very fast when they lift weights and can jump very high. 😂😂
Well, olympic weightlifters can dunk like in NBA, sprint better than Usain Bolt and punch harder and faster than A. joshua, but they don’t show…😅. Sorry man, but is about is about to become a faster in different sports than olympic weightlifting.
Very interesting and informative this all makes sense when explained by mark and jay I just don’t understand why more are not onboard with this science has proved it is safer and better but a lot in the industry have blinders on and don’t want to know
@Peter Princi I'm not familiar with their strength coach, but based on the equipment they have, looks like they concentrate on the typical basic lifts. Bench, power cleans, squats/lunges, push presses, RDL's lunges etc...
I agree there isn't enough emphasis on the important metric of injury; therein volume should be carefully administered (along with mode). I would advise caution with correlation and causation with the weight room and injury. Please don't lump all PhDs in with Steedman, as a PhD in Ex Phys he doesn't represent the majority of the "educated". Good talk on blood flow, specificity of training foolishness, genetics...my own philosophy of training has changed over the years as I continue to see young people crushed in high school weight rooms and as a former Oly-style weightlifting coach. These young athletes could see improvements in performance and most importantly stay health with the ole full body 1x20 training (HIT). A great interview, loved the talk on 'core'; I have been dispelling that crap for years! Just keep in mind that the type of training does influence how the muscle adapts: sacroplasmic vs myofibrillar hypertrophy, HIT likely plays to sacroplasmic hypertrophy... great talk on recovery; people major in the minors. Thank you for the interview Coach!
All right lol the comment on Brady being strongest quarterback ever coming in... I'm calling Bs on that one . Good interview though. The numbers on his bench don't show that.
How many times a week are you supposed to do HIT? Also, if Olympic lifts, bodybuilding, and powerlifting workouts are not recommended, what sort of workouts are you supposed to do while doing HIT?
exactly, some confusing info... also didn't he say getting stronger doesn't translate to better performance early in the video, and then at the end says getting stronger plus the skill of running will make you faster...??
@D C I wasn't trying to make a point with those questions; there were sincere questions because what they're talking about makes sense, but I'm unsure how to implement it. I think I'm getting a better idea of how to do so after watching a few other videos where Mike goes into more detail about the practicalities of training this way. In short, any training program could work (granted, it's safe), it's just a matter of how you use the tools you're using to build strength (free weights, machines, cables, etc.).
The concepts of necessary threshold stimulus in exercise and recovery are the same regardless of if you are recovering from knee replacement surgery or a professional athlete. The principles and science of exercise are reliable and predictable. How you would approach any given fundamental exercise like a squat compared to a professional football player is identical in mechanics and balancing the standard of effort with progression. If the person in this video is promoting an exercise program and it has merit in the foundation, then the general population can do it.
I'll add one more thing after watching further. There are plenty of studies, most that I have seen, that show favorable adaptations to performance by intervention with accommodated resistance. This is in response to the annoyance you show at the chains in the racks. Accommodated resistance has enough research for you to not try to discount it, if we are going to stick to evidence based approaches to training.
I like the question you just ask. I would actually take one of the lesser athletes and train them on how I know I know what works on what I’ve already done with student athletes and then let him make his decision on that later. I do think that if I had time to sit with the coach, I could bring my viewpoint across the right way. It was a strength and conditioning coach for Cape Coral high school in Florida had a great opportunity to meet Bobby Huggins and he loved the way I had train these three kids or actually the whole team and this is when he was with Cincinnati Bearcats before he went to West Virginia. it was simple for basketball players. I trained him very simple train the whole body and then as soon as they were done training, I had to hoop in my yard and I made him go outside and start shooting free throws thank shots stuff like that after about two months of training, the kids strength they were shooting two and 4 foot further back. They could work out and go right out there and shoot ball and not mess so it’s all about mechanics fatigue, the muscles the right way and then taught them techniques on shooting when they were tired, and then those boys put it together, it was fun and I had the greatest time but I do think the coach Tampa could be persuaded the right way
I know it's not your demographic, but what do you think of Dr Sullivan's Greysteel channel? He bases it on Starting Strength with intensity over volume, and suggests intensive cardio such as prowlers as an adjunct.
I once asked my high school wrestling coach:
“What’s the best exercise for wrestling.”
He said: “Wrestling.”
Spot on😃
Yup. Same in boxing, BJJ, and MMA. You can train and get bigger and stronger if you want but without an equivalent increase in your skill level it will likely just hurt your performance.
But not the best exercise for injury prevention.
@@Jdac333 that wasn't the question
@@mattsharkey8437it is, if you can’t do it because you’re injured with a torn ACL… what’s the best training for a marathon… running marathons… do it everyday for a year then…
I was Mark’s intern in Jacksonville. His understanding of all the requisite sub-components of this profession, along with his ability to coach/teach both trainees as well as other professionals make him so invaluable to this field. I’m glad to see an updated interview out there. Thanks for doing this.
I was Les Ebert's assistant SC in NASCAR, and there wasn't a day that passed without Les speaking highly of Coach Asanovich.
@@austinmorris3422 Les was Mark’s assistant when I was there. He was brilliant himself
Hi Brian, can I ask please if I can ask you a few questions regarding training please. I´m a brand new strength coach for soccer players and I´m looking for tipps and suggestions. thanks
What are you doing now Brian?
That’s so cool, must have been an amazing experience.
trained my son in motocross. The largest gain was not the strenght he gained from training but the confidence he gained. It allowed him feel confident in himself when lined up at start gate. you cannot think consciously your reactions are slow. Subconscious is where your reaction has to come from, threw practice of repetition.
I am a former AMA Expert license holder in 125cc Motocross as a H.S. 17 year old and was ranked as high as 5th in the state of Florida in '73/'74. I was in very good shape as an athletic teenage boy who played all the ball and stick sports (starting at RB/CB on a very good varsity H.S. football team), but I would always get worn out near the end of the 50 minute final. I never thought to work out to increase my cardio and to put a bit of muscle on the absorb the punishment. After I hung up the racing boots I became a competitive Triathlete. Looking back I always wondered how much better I would have been had I worked out when racing.
Jay and Coach, great interview and discussion again.
I took a class from coach at The Citadel. He is a first class teacher and gentleman.
I hope you two will continue to have these discussions for us again in the future.
Outstanding!!
You’re right, you are absolutely right it’s just somebody trying to come up with their own version of being able to go and make money at a high-level by telling a professional athlete what he needs to do which I totally disagree all comes down to mechanics and just going through the motions it’s almost like a dance to be fluid and flow the right way you go through the motions very slowly and then with repetitive action you increase the speed to where you want it to be. I’m so excited I’ve run across this channel.
I think the genius of h i t training especially with the rep Cadence Jay promotes, is the elimination of injury potential, and the strengthening of bone and connective tissues. I'm way more interested in longevity than impressing people with Goofy workouts that have no real world translation to better performance
Goofy Workouts AKA Crossfit.. 🤣 🤣
Unsure, there is actually more time under stress on the joint. I have had just as much joint trauma from slow rep cadence as explosive.
@@defaultdefault812 sounds like an individual challenge you might have. I have had zero pain or even feeling like I'm going to damage anything since switching. And Jay has trained thousands with no injuries using slow rep cadence. It greatly reduces shearing forces on ligaments and connective tissue vs fast explosive movements.
What rep cadence does Jay promote? I've been trying to answer that exact question tonight.
@@christophdollis1955 4-5 seconds concentric, intense contraction, 4-5 eccentric. Smooth transitions between changing direction. No jerking, no momentum. Extremely safe for your joints, ligaments and other connective tissue.
Great conversation with one of the best. Thanks for having Mark on the program. I’ll see him in March at the annual REC CONFERENCE in Minneapolis.
This is such an interesting subject. As an Fyi, The Nautilus system of HITT machines from the 70's/80's were a set of machines that Arthur Jones invented were used by the Miami Dolphins in '72 during their perfect season,
Taking enough time off between workouts to allow your body to recover is often overlooked concerning muscle growth and strength gains. Overload your muscles with heavy weights to failure with a few sets..then take a week off.
@@Rainy_Day12234yep. Biggest muscle hack I’ve ever done.
Great video, glad to see you guys covering this stuff.
Great video, wise coach. It scares me how many people are so clueless and claim to be experts. Personally Im not expert but its not that hard to see through the bullshit nowdays.
@@utewbd yeah for sure
Mark is a wealth of knowledge, at 66 years old have found out the hard way on what is good for you long term and what will leave you worse off. Man is smart listen to him.
Great talk guys!
I wish he talked about how many exercises for body part in a workout, frequency, what’s too short or too long as frequency goes. He was about to and you got sidetracked.
It is not the weight room that injures the athletes, it is the program design that cause injuries. You don't rehab in the weight room, you rehab in the training room. It is up to the strength coach and the athletic trainer to return an injured athlete back to the field in pre-injury form. They do not need to change their weight room...they need to change their program design.
Was a great interview!! Thanks Jay and Mark
The similarities between this subject and diet is interesting. Mainstream narratives about diet are so completely off base, and the realities of a proper diet are wholly controversial. The evidence is crystal clear though.
Agree 100%
I listened to Mark speak in Atlantic City about 10 years ago or so. Very informative lecture, and very practical. Nice to hear him again on this channel. Kept me engaged the whole hour and a half. I stumbled upon this channel accidentally, I'll be back.
I was an athlete myself on 5 foot eight. I boxed in the heavyweight division at 200 pounds. I was very muscular and I could run like a deer at 5 foot eight I could stand under the rim and jump up and grab it with both hands and hang there on a 10 foot rim, 1988 I got edged out for the all New England that fight would’ve sent me to Nebraska for the Olympic trials
And Im Mike Tyson
You’re funny guy. What I like about people like you knock your ass out so easy for a smart ass.
Ok. And you train H.I.T. style? Or what was the point of this post?
@@Traps510 some old man trying to cope with his life by trying to brag online lol probably an average dude
I can dunk today.
The biggest issue I have with this is he's talking about strength and conditioning for athletes who've already developed their S&C program at a high level for about a solid decade. So no shit it's less important to have them do hard strength and power training when they've already got that as a background. You don't do professional athlete's routines without their background and needs.
Exactly!. They have the based from yrs of training and playing their sport. Most people fail to realize pro athletes are good IN SPITE of their training not because of it. S&c should be as general as possible and let the sport itself and practice make u better at the sport.
This is a great point! I'm not training a 15 year old novice like I'd train Adrian Peterson at OU.
@@MrSpicabooo True. And most of them get hurt because most “ elite “ trainers don’t know shit. I’ve seen college level trainers and pro training guys on a squat and I actually felt my back almost snap.
He’s probably meaning it in a way that since they’ve built that base trainers shouldn’t keep taxing their bodies. I really
Believe lots of athlete in all sports get hurt a lot because of faulty programs and being overtrained by trainers who don’t know shit and are labeled “ experts” because they have a degree or certification on which they simply memorized a bunch of shit to get.
@@MrSpicabooo You act as if we can’t measure and look at a professional athlete’s problems, such as movement and strength deficiencies (especially with today’s technology). Everyone has their problems and weaknesses. We can absolutely find that out and focus on improving those issues to make them better athletes and more injury resistant (that includes microbiome and their specific genetics and thus make very specific modifications they need to make to diet and lifestyle). Sadly, that is barely even considered or looked at by most good ole HIT training devotees
jays reaction to Marks mention, that Tom Brady was training with HIT principles is hilarious :D
1st video of your channel I've seen and Good Gracious, How informative it was. Mark is ahead of his time. I agree with him 100%.
As a life long physical training devotee and “weekend warrior”, and about to close out a 29 year career as a firefighter paramedic, at 67, … the pictures of those crazy movements were terrifying. That individual not only embarrasses education but physical training as well. Re the whole idea of transfer…I have, and this is anecdotal, never experienced transfer in the strict meaning of that term. What I have experienced is the ability to learn and relearn different physical skills more quickly due to my level of physical fitness and ok awareness of where my joints are in space as i perform a movement. For example I have never noted an improvement in my deadlift that could be connected with kettlebell swings, nor vice versa. Overall physical conditioning coupled with specific skills acquistion seems to be the optimal protocol.
Re: injuries in HITT training. It depends what kind of exercises you are doing and your age. I did Cross Fit for 18 months as a Very fit 55 year old and I did have joint issues just from all the strenuous Olympic lifts you did along with other high intensity body weight exercises. As A.J. Foyt once said about racing engines: There is only so much HP per hour any engine can withstand. I was in near world class shape and looked fantastic, but after 18 months I had to quit to save my body.
As far as I know, HIT is not the same as HIIT
Jay, I can see through your genius plan - you want to get involved in a football team, make it win and become a legend
Gentlemen, thank you for the in depth discussion.
Unfortunately you have fallen victim to severe confirmation bias. On one hand you say we should not listen to a guy because he has a PhD (while showing goofball PhDs doing silly exercises, implying that PhDs are useless)...... but then cite research studies done by PhDs that support your beliefs. You are not reviewing the research, you are selecting the studies that agree with your claims.
As someone who comes from the scientific world-
If you want to appear as a science based channel, you must cite all the variables and the strongest studies on both sides of the argument.
example for your topic here:
How do you build the ideal body size for your sport while increasing explosive power?
Considerations:
Must assess age, genetics, gender, and sport of the athletes.
Does the athlete need more speed, more strength, or more size?...
What PEDs are the athletes taking?
What stage are they at with their physique development?
These are just a few variables to consider before designing a program.
The very question of "what is the best program for athletes?" is flawed from the start as it does not specify the variables involved. This is the problem with TH-cam- the audience wants the fast food version of training.
If you want to learn about how to train average athletes you do not look at what NFL teams are doing as their job is to do everything possible to avoid injuries. This is correct when you are dealing with the most talented athletes in America (who are all heavily geared up.)
To learn about athletic power & speed development (for average humans), you must study biomechanics, physiology, and the equations of power (which you mention). You will learn that too much HIT training makes the average CLEAN athlete slower due to the longer time under tension. Average athletes do not have as much fast twitch muscle and thus respond negatively to long duration TUT.
A guy with NFL talent on heavy gear can basically do anything and still dominate (you used Warren Sapp as a good example). To compare these guys to average athletes is just silly.
Also, Olympic lifting is not dangerous. (Check out the University of North Dakota Football Olympic lifting program- amazing coaches there). In fact elite Olympic lifters have some of the lowest rate of injuries. Really what you are saying is that O-lifting is dangerous if you don't know how to coach it (which is true). Football guys struggle with the overhead work due to shoulder issues.
This is why they stick with power cleans which is the best weight training exercise for explosive power (if you are good at Math, you can calculate this using the equations for relative body power / watts per kilogram of body weight).
For part 2 of this discussion-
Bring on an intelligent researcher for HIT training and another researcher who works on explosive power training.
Let them battle it out. Think they will tell you training athletes on gear is dramatically different than training clean athletes.
Also, they will discuss the size principle of motor unit recruitment. If you avoid explosive work, you will not be able to lower the threshold of and or optimally recruit the largest motor units (on demand in high power scenarios like cutting, starts, jumping etc). The physiology of this is very complicated and thus warrants an entire discussion.
Thanks again to you and Mark. Hope
these suggestions help to organize the next discussion.
Finally, someone whom actually understands the narrow window these HIT training proselytes look through. The confirmation bias is unreal.
Your argument is flawed from the start because you're assuming that olimpic lifting transfers directly to things like high jumping. In reality, athletes who do high jumping need to train for high jumping and not for explosive movements. You can probably achieve the same results by doing HIT to strengthen the muscles and THEN train for high jumping separately with the increased muscle mass.
Love this guy! Great chat with him.
I think that a lot of commenters are missing the basic point this strength coach is making. There is no need to weight train football players like Olympic power lifters or bodybuilders, especially after a certain age or experience level. And the myth that maximum strength equals maximum speed and power has been around far too long.
Thank you for the interview.
Can you please show me where to find more information about the High Intensity Training that Mark uses? I'm a strength coach and want to understand more about why he doesn't like Olympic lifting and what exercises he does use.
Thanks.
th-cam.com/video/MVGob8DrjDg/w-d-xo.html
Awesome interview Jay. I didn’t think Olympic Lifts really transferred. This video was very helpful for me. Especially, the core exercise part.
depends how well they're taught I guess... Strength, power, speed, coordination, mobility are required in all sports, which is also required to do "olympic lifts"
@goldenera I don’t understand. I listen to the 1h30 interview and Still don’t know how you would train. Except of saying Intense, the whole video was bashing other methods through historybut not teaching us how.
Can you please tell me where to look ?
Don’t. Your wasting your time. What they are talking about is Arthur Jones’s old H.I.T. training. 1 set to failure with slow rep speeds and maximal loading primarily done on machines.
I would love for you to sit down and have a discussion with Garage Strength GS and Knees Over Toes KOT….
GS is big on Olympic lifting movements, power movements and KOT is about the increased pressures of a joint builds stronger joints and everything that supports this. The KOT specifically calls out increased performance through his training.
You also mentioned injuries may have started in the weight room ….then you say weightlifting builds stronger bones, tendons and ligaments, so why wouldn’t Olympic and power movements do just that, build back stronger?
He doesn’t understand stresses applied and the adaptive responses created. Max strength is only one measure. Shearing forces which create damage are also what can create the responses of the body to improve the tendon and ligament density. The issue is when forces CANNOT be properly absorbed at particular ranges of motion, in particular positions, and when compensation occurs allowing stresses to inappropriately go into a particular tendon or ligament on a consistent basis. That is how this damage is created. A shearing force appropriately put on a joint, as Ben Patrick demonstrates, will result in stronger more resilient tendons and ligaments. It isn’t about “sport specificity”, or motor control in respects to their sport as these guys are referencing or believing, it is putting stresses that result in the appropriate adaptation you want. All they understand is “do HIT training” and your sport. They don’t seem to understand what is being done through other training techniques. Such as training your Vestibular system and so many other things that can be done. The issue they don’t seem to grasp is that training in a HIT fashion is just one of many tools, and not always the appropriate tool for that particular athlete at that particular time. Most people completely miss neurological components and responses to training and they don’t understand how important mobility, stability, neuromuscular firing patterns, compensation patterns, rate of force development, etc.. when looking at athletic development, training, and injury. Understanding how different types of training, like extreme slow, iso-metrics, eccentrics, plyometrics, maximal loading, high velocity training, maximal ROM, etc.. can ALL be used to help and get different neuromuscular and musculoskeletal responses.
This was awesome and not what I expected.. never judge a book by it's cover. Great content!
What did you expect? Mike Mentzer/Arthur Jones principles vs Mainstream?
Great interview! It's cool to know he trained Mike Alstott with HIT Training. Alstott looked like an athletic bodybuilder bulldozing opponents.
I just started watching this... about a month and a half ago at 47 years old I pulled the biggest deadlift of my life. Granted I haven't try to deadlift anything since high school. I was a rock climber a surfer I fought in the cage. But 650 apparently is good for an old man even in the NFL. So let's see I'll start watching
Would like to here what he thinks about Herschel Walker. His program is all bodyweight even when he played in the NFL. Also his diet in college was 6 to 7 Snicker Bars at night. He eats one meal a day in the evening and almost no meat.
I think Walker has 001% elite level genes
you need to remember that Walker is a total and proven liar.
He's got multiple personalities one of them ate more than soup
@@Kujien I bet one of them ate meat and another lifted real weights too
@@arthurfonzarelli9828 1000%
Jay and some future podcast go over" Grip strength" how to do it and how important it is !!! PS.. interview was just off the planet huge formation👍👍👍👍❗
This is one of the best things for grip strength, get a little bit of a thick rope, tied up in a tree rope in the gym and climb that every day you might have to start climbing with your legs wrapped around it, going up a little bit of the time, but eventually do it to where you have walk yourself all the way up the rope, and then all the way back down. I learned this from one of my Cuban friends that was an Olympic wrestler. He had very small hands and that’s what the coaches of Cuba have him to do. He was so strong with his grip that his fingers were short, but he could grab you, even if you were sweaty, and you couldn’t pull away from him.
Im so angry hearing this. The reason I never became a PT was my instructor told me that trainers didn't just teach people how to strength train, but also helped improve athletes develop their skills. Now I learn there's no correlation between strength training and athletic performance aside from general health improvement like bone density ect
This was a great interview! I'll be sharing this with a former pro quarterback I met at the gym, who's currently an offensive football coach at a local university. If he likes what he hears, perhaps he'll share it with his strength coach too. By the way, the only question I wish Jay would have asked is how many exercises per muscle group Mark used with his athletes, with the one set to positive failure protocol. I personally get great results using two exercises for each muscle group, but believe one set likely would work just as good. Thanks for the great content, Jay!
All of this baloney is only applicable when training a huge group of football players with limited time. Look how the Soviet Union trained it’s athletes. No one was afraid of ‘over training’. One set till failure is baloney.
@@RAPEDBYBLACKShaha you have zero evidence to support that statement just like they said, too funny
@@RAPEDBYBLACKSSoviets were on a ton of sauce
So everyone is doing it wrong but did he ever say what he does or recommends
TOM Brady was one of the slowest QB's in the NFL. But his intelligence and throwing arm got him where he is today along with leadership
When he speaks of high-intensity training protocols, exactly what is he referring to? Is he referring to HIIT Training?
Arthur Jones’s old H.I.T. training. 1 set to failure with slow rep speeds and maximal loading primarily done on machines. Not “HIIT” which is high intensity interval training.
@@chazaqs9109 Ah, ok. That clears things up. Thank you!
Jay, dude please think about adding timecard to your video posts. Big fan of your work.
Love Mark, very knowledgeable and well spoken. This will probably be an unpopular opinion but jay just comes off as a know it all, cocky(talks a lot about himself) and not very smart. When researching Jay, he doesn’t say anything that any good trainer doesn’t already know…not informative at all. I also laugh at the resentment toward Joel seedman when Jay talks about the same cadence and pace he does in his videos. I’m not a huge Joel guy but he almost never says…this is going to directly translate to the field or court. He talks a lot about eccentric training…so he didn’t give Mark all of the info and it just came off as Jay trying to make himself look smart. He lost all credibility when he said…I think all of the football players are the strongest and fastest they will ever be at the combine. I mean these kids are 20-22 years old…he’s telling everyone that they can’t and won’t get any faster or stronger….come on man. Thank god Mark corrected him on that amongst other things
I’m actually a huge fan of Joel Seedman. People miss all the little things he does well and correctly because they just see the few “crazy looking” exercises which Joel himself admits aren’t a major component of his programs.
Not to mention that some people are extremely emotionally invested into ATG squats as if it’s a measure of their manhood somehow
This interview was incredible!
I bailed after 5 minutes. No time to listen to an hour and a half of rambling, to try to get one or two helpful points.
This guys full of gold
The unbalanced load (barbell rows) reminds me of an old school saying, “trying to be too cute”.
How can you say “There is not one bit of literature in the scientific evidence that links an increase in strength to an increase in performance”?Strength development is linked to faster sprint speeds, higher vertical jumps, CoD, etc. I understand that maybe it doesn’t add yards to a stat sheet but that’s not because performance didn’t improve. There more variables in play with stats, than there is performance. Bad play-calling, missed assignments, game management, can affect stats. But by and large, faster and more explosive athletes perform better than slower and less explosive athletes. And there’s plenty of scientific literature to back that claim.
Hey this guy is the real deal! I never felt a workout that intense for Jay's Pegram before I definitely felt the burn 👍
I was a personal trainer for years in the late 90s early 2000s and I taught one set to failure, less is more and I got the same reaction from the other trainers and managers.
Mark and Jay are brilliant!
It seems some people just simply love wasting time in the gym.
Great interview, thanks for sharing. Subscribed.
When I was in high school I ran a 5 second 40 at 155lbs. At 32 I ran a 4.5 40 from my belly at 225 pounds. So keep sprinting, strength does help speed. And yes, back then I was already doing HIT for couple of years. I performed this while I was in a Federal Agency Academy and have documented proof by way of certificate rewarding me because I broke the academy record at the time.
Please have Mark on more. His wisdom never stops pouring out. He needs a voice in the world today and you could help him.
Great show...I' subscribed. Thank you.
I grew up in Nebraska, played freshman football at Nebraska in 1984 and was a intern asst strength coach for Boyd Epley in 1990. Every player lifted there and lifted heavy. I watched Dave Rimmington, Mark Trainiwich, Harry Grimminger, Dean Steinkuhlar all clean, squat and bench massive weights. The skill positions did the same thing and Boyd Epley had years and years of testing data to prove increasing lean muscle mass through this type of strength training produced results. Boyd Epley was a "free weight" guy and this guy is a HIT guy they'll never agree with each other but for this guy to say none of the players lifted and it didn't produce anything is just plain wrong. I was there and did it, watched it and coached it. Football coaches don't keep strength coaches that injure players and make them slower. Boyd stayed at Nebraska and produced results for many years before he retired, not too many coaches start and end they're career at one program.
Does anyone know his protocol?
@@michaelwozniak183 Which one?
Hey John
could not agree more. Strength and Power training programming has produced many decades of data from around the world. If done properly, this data strongly supports the use of heavy / explosive lifting when dealing with power sport athletes. Boyd Epley has 2 books on Amazon- good reads.
Our current problem is that people want to learn how to train through TH-cam. Whereas proper lifting is too complex to learn without a pro coach, so people fall back on HIT training or bodybuilding then claim that "lifting" makes athletes slow and bulky.
@@axleochidae2853 I agree. I have all his books and talk to him on a regular basis about training since my days as an intern assistant for him.
What the deal with Bucs wideouts having repetitive hamstring injuries they fight through all year? Namely Chris Godwin and especially Mike Evans (every year)
It is absurd to talk about NFL training without highlighting the use of PEDs.
Also, in the NFL you are dealing with the most naturally fast athletes in America (most on heavy gear).
Once they reach the NFL the emphasis shifts to injury prevention.
If you don't teach explosive strength/ sprint work / plyometrics to average athletes they have little chance of making large improvements in athletic power.
This is a very naive reply. Professional football is a business. The more wins a team has, the more profit that is made. To infer that once an athlete makes the NFL that they don’t need to increase their power and performance, is naive and lacks reality. This argument still does not justify prescribing orthopedically dangerous exercises like plyometrics, power cleans, snatches and their derivatives. Exercise should always ENHANCE HEALTH never should it ENDANGER HEALTH. End of discussion.
@@markasanovich So exercises done by 90% of all olympic athletes are health endangering? Man, you're just a clown 🤡 And you're a S&C in American football, one of the most health damaging sports in existence...
@@AlexandarShmex Certainly an intelligent argument “if everyone is doing it, then it must be right”. Equally intelligent is the use of name-calling. By dismissing me as a “clown”, you let yourself off the hook of taking a critical and reflective look at the facts. Way to take the high road🫵🏻
@@markasanovich Well maybe it's a bit unprofessional, but it's not wrong. And it's not a case "if everyone is doing it, then it must be right", but a case of "if olympic athletes, that are 1% of 1% of professional athletes, who have an imperative to perform, since their results provide most of their opportunities for income, but also for their coaches and team, then it must be right". These people aren't going to risk their careers and income through inefficient and dangerous training methods.
The facts are not on your side Mark, simply because plyometrics, power cleans, snatches not so much, were, are and will be used by olympic gold winners in sports ranging from figure skating to basketball. This is the facts we're looking at, not "academic research", graphs and new "proofs" that come by the day. As someone already mentioned, weighlifting is one of the sports with the lowest injury rates, one study puts it at 0.0017 injuries per 100,000 hours of participation, while track and field had 0.570. There are many other studies pointing to the same results. I am also a chiropractor/physical therapist, alongside having a master's degree in S&C in professional sports, and the most injured athletes that come to my office are (non-American) football and basketball players.
We're looking at what the most successful athletes are doing and most are doing the exercises you dismiss. I'm going to trust their results and their coaches more than I'm going to trust you, it's simple as that. I also see that your experience is mostly based on American football, which is a very specific sport that has no global character, it's played seriously only in the USA, so that's also a red flag.
So, there are certain risks with all power and strength building movements, especially in plyometric exercises, but with good programming and attention to detail, it will be used as intended, at the right time, which reduces the injury possibility greatly.
What I can guarantee, that elite athletes are not going to be switching to HIT method(s) of training anytime soon.
@@AlexandarShmex You miss the point completely. The point is NOT to trust me. The point is NOT to trust what genetically-gifted gold medal athletes do. The point is NOT to debate for sake of debating. The point is doing what is best for our kids, our clients ... those individuals that have entrusted their health to our care. As a health care professional, you have a fiduciary obligation to "Above all Else, First Do NO HARM". Thus, when it comes to the prescription of exercise, if you know an exercise to be potentially dangerous ... you don't do it ... or you default to the safer alternative ... PERIOD! It's as simple as that.
To resign yourself to the fact that just because the uninformed, genetic elite continue to clean, snatch and jump over boxes justifies your promotion of orthopedically dangerous exercise instead of taking an unbiased, critical look at, as you say ""academic research", graphs and new "proofs" that come by the day ... is naïve at best and criminally incriminating at worst.
It is very apparent from your discourse that you are sentimentally and emotionally invested in your practices and opinions. It is also apparent that no matter what continues as these string of endless replies ... your mind is made up. That being the case, to further beat a dead horse is pointless and time consuming. I will end by saying ... I appreciated the discourse and wish you success in your practice.
I had motor learning/development…maybe 3-4 courses and didn’t know how to use “transfer” most of that info to real life. Helped me more working with my autistic son but they didn’t do a very good job of connecting motor learning or biomechanics to training or rehab…
Why don't we see very skinny guys running sub-10 100s? They are typically very strong and jacked. What am I missing?
Jay you know I love HIT but would want to know what you’d say about Basketball players and how the skill acquisition for that sport transfers so well to other sports?
I’ve coached kids who’ve never played a sport like football in their lives but can often walk right on the field and play if they’re b-ball players.
It is simple. Playing Basketball develops quick twitch abilities, the ability to stop on a dime, cut left-right-forward-back, accelerate quickly, and most important of all, absorbing lots of force from jumping and landing hundreds of times during a game. The only thing HIT training does well is help develop stronger more resilient tissues, but if that is all you do for training you are going to make your athletes slow as f-ck! You can easily incorporate this type of training into blocks (TRI-phasic training is a better way of doing this and a perfect example) when prepping the body’s tissues to better handle the demands of high velocity activities that you need to train to become faster and more explosive. Training HIT training ONLY for sports is about as good as training Yoga ONLY for sports. It is only looking at one aspect and one type of strength when many can be needed depending on the given sport.
This was great. Thanks, Mark!
Steve Wetzel with the Vikings used HIT as well; around 1998.
Interesting discussion - Thanks for doing it! Mark says around 12:30 that there is no evidence of increasing strength and performance. If you look at throwers in the hammer or shot put (track and field) you have to incline press over 350 to have any kind of shot at reaching the podium if not more. In Bobsled, you need to be able to squat at least 440 pounds in order to make the team because you won't be strong enough to overcome inertia to push the sled. There are physical attributes in most sports (including football) that are needed to be achieved in order to at least compete. Those physical attributes especially strength is what Mark has spent is whole professional life trying to help his athletes achieve, so I am not sure what he is saying here.
@@ElementFreedive Typical HIT conversation
@@utewbd But that's a complete delusion. You will never be a successful shot putter without a very strong back squat, c/j, inline and regular bench press. And you will not build sufficient muscle mass, nor strength by throwing only.
No no no. He’s saying strength training is crucial. But Olympic lifting is deteriorating on the joints and connective tissue and won’t make you better on the field that traditional or HIT weight training yet will make you much more vulnerable to injuries
He clearly says “get them stronger, get them skilled and get them smarter”. There are way more NON contact injuries in all sports. I absolutely believe that’s bc of todays overtraining of jumping and explosive/max speed and Olympic training
@@darrendigiacomo6889 And please define “get them stronger”, that can be very broad unless people understand specifics. And the non-contact injuries are not necessarily from “over-training”, that is a very big assumption. Many of those people could in fact be undertrained (especially with the particular area injured). Just give me a video of someone running and you can easily see how weak they are at handling forces and even what areas they are more likely to have problems with. It doesn’t matter if they are elite at their sport skill, it is highly visible with most all of them. One of the biggest problems I see that we have is that people are becoming too specialized in a sport which creates significant muscle imbalances that can lead to injury. This can also be problematic because of the compensation patterns that become so ingrained because of their constant repetition and thus the degradation of particular connective tissues. And if we get into diet, sleep, genetic abilities to detoxify, etc… then we have even more factors to look at. The simple fact is this, injuries occur when one’s ability to absorb forces within that particular range of motion and with those particular muscles and connective tissues, is exceeded. Lots of things can factor into this, fatigue or previous muscle/connective tissue damage from overtraining is just one of those things.
Great topic. Science, bro-science, genetics. With all of the money spent on sports, it is embarrassing how poor we are at properly training athletes. I don’t think it needs to be so complicated. The SAID principle is the best: want to get better at an event, train that event and rest. Strength train as an adjunct. Also, I am no expert, but it seems to me that training to failure has its own risks. In my own experience, I have made good strength gains stopping well before failure.
Glad to hear olympic lifts don't really translate well. Especially when I wanna hit and kick harder.
The striking specific training is tough enough, without learning such technical and demanding lifts.
I did not notice much improvement after doing them for a year. The basic compound lifts are enough and more feasible IMO.
I have to admit you were right, this is an amazing video.
Top NCAA Football teams, like the University of Michigan, players enter the locker room after practices by walking through an cold/ice plunge. These players use cold/ice plunges on a very regular basis, but there is evidence that this masks initial signs of an injury by reducing inflammation and masking pain while also limiting the benefits of the adaptation phase during heavy lifting/training cycles. Are NFL Teams using cold/ice plunge baths as often?
Much respect for the work you do. Super impressed.
Great podcast excellent information. Thank you. !
Basketball in the 80s saw a much more muscular player than previously. Do you think it helped players compete and perform better?
Awesome interview!
Awesome interview Jay!
Crossfit has become the most dangerous sport lol
Thanx! Appreciate this interview.
I think the interview would have been better pointing out the old way good and bad points and what exercises are causing damage vs what is better.
According to him Olympic weightlifting doesn't increase speed and power correct. Well how come Olympic weightlifting are very fast when they lift weights and can jump very high. 😂😂
Well, olympic weightlifters can dunk like in NBA, sprint better than Usain Bolt and punch harder and faster than A. joshua, but they don’t show…😅. Sorry man, but is about is about to become a faster in different sports than olympic weightlifting.
Very interesting and informative this all makes sense when explained by mark and jay I just don’t understand why more are not onboard with this science has proved it is safer and better but a lot in the industry have blinders on and don’t want to know
Durability starts with making slow-growth ligaments and tendons strong. Huge muscles are worth zero when connective tissue tears.
Wasn’t Bowles a defensive back with the redskins under Gibbs when coach Riley was the strength coach? Coach Riley was a science based HIT guy.
+2 Yes Dan was biggest influencer of HIT training. Todd trained with Dan and his staff while with Washington
@@buffdoc46 just curious as to why the Bucs don’t train HIT now then. Maybe they do.
@Peter Princi I'm not familiar with their strength coach, but based on the equipment they have, looks like they concentrate on the typical basic lifts. Bench, power cleans, squats/lunges, push presses, RDL's lunges etc...
WRT the question at 20:50, one good general overview is the book "If You Like Exercise Chances Are You’re Doing It Wrong" by Gary Bannister.
I agree there isn't enough emphasis on the important metric of injury; therein volume should be carefully administered (along with mode). I would advise caution with correlation and causation with the weight room and injury. Please don't lump all PhDs in with Steedman, as a PhD in Ex Phys he doesn't represent the majority of the "educated". Good talk on blood flow, specificity of training foolishness, genetics...my own philosophy of training has changed over the years as I continue to see young people crushed in high school weight rooms and as a former Oly-style weightlifting coach. These young athletes could see improvements in performance and most importantly stay health with the ole full body 1x20 training (HIT). A great interview, loved the talk on 'core'; I have been dispelling that crap for years! Just keep in mind that the type of training does influence how the muscle adapts: sacroplasmic vs myofibrillar hypertrophy, HIT likely plays to sacroplasmic hypertrophy... great talk on recovery; people major in the minors. Thank you for the interview Coach!
Never confuse schooling with education and always scrutinize those who do.
All right lol the comment on Brady being strongest quarterback ever coming in... I'm calling Bs on that one . Good interview though. The numbers on his bench don't show that.
Forgive my ignorance. But what is “high intensity training?” I assume it is with lighter weights, but there must be more to it.
I'm a wrestler. This video helps.
Good show and a great guest thanks
SO GET TO POINT how should you train what is recommendation
thanks for the interview.
what is the "Su-E" force output device?
My biggest takeaway is what I knew already: Having a PhD doesn't mean you are smart.
thanks Jay and Mark
Mark Asonovich is the most properly educated and experienced strength coach I have ever had the pleasure of listening to!!!
How many times a week are you supposed to do HIT?
Also, if Olympic lifts, bodybuilding, and powerlifting workouts are not recommended, what sort of workouts are you supposed to do while doing HIT?
exactly, some confusing info... also didn't he say getting stronger doesn't translate to better performance early in the video, and then at the end says getting stronger plus the skill of running will make you faster...??
@D C I wasn't trying to make a point with those questions; there were sincere questions because what they're talking about makes sense, but I'm unsure how to implement it.
I think I'm getting a better idea of how to do so after watching a few other videos where Mike goes into more detail about the practicalities of training this way.
In short, any training program could work (granted, it's safe), it's just a matter of how you use the tools you're using to build strength (free weights, machines, cables, etc.).
@@Fire_soul1796 agreed.
Is there a book about this training method? Does it apply to the general population for overall fitness or is it just pro athlete specific?
The concepts of necessary threshold stimulus in exercise and recovery are the same regardless of if you are recovering from knee replacement surgery or a professional athlete. The principles and science of exercise are reliable and predictable. How you would approach any given fundamental exercise like a squat compared to a professional football player is identical in mechanics and balancing the standard of effort with progression. If the person in this video is promoting an exercise program and it has merit in the foundation, then the general population can do it.
It’s not Jagwires. It’s Jag-u-ar or Jag-war
What was the neck strength tester called?
HIT is the future. I've been doing it for a few years now with great results with minimal time in the gym.
I'll add one more thing after watching further. There are plenty of studies, most that I have seen, that show favorable adaptations to performance by intervention with accommodated resistance. This is in response to the annoyance you show at the chains in the racks. Accommodated resistance has enough research for you to not try to discount it, if we are going to stick to evidence based approaches to training.
I like the question you just ask. I would actually take one of the lesser athletes and train them on how I know I know what works on what I’ve already done with student athletes and then let him make his decision on that later. I do think that if I had time to sit with the coach, I could bring my viewpoint across the right way. It was a strength and conditioning coach for Cape Coral high school in Florida had a great opportunity to meet Bobby Huggins and he loved the way I had train these three kids or actually the whole team and this is when he was with Cincinnati Bearcats before he went to West Virginia. it was simple for basketball players. I trained him very simple train the whole body and then as soon as they were done training, I had to hoop in my yard and I made him go outside and start shooting free throws thank shots stuff like that after about two months of training, the kids strength they were shooting two and 4 foot further back. They could work out and go right out there and shoot ball and not mess so it’s all about mechanics fatigue, the muscles the right way and then taught them techniques on shooting when they were tired, and then those boys put it together, it was fun and I had the greatest time but I do think the coach Tampa could be persuaded the right way
30 MINUTES IN and you still have not told us WHAT his regimen IS! Get to it!
I know it's not your demographic, but what do you think of Dr Sullivan's Greysteel channel?
He bases it on Starting Strength with intensity over volume, and suggests intensive cardio such as prowlers as an adjunct.