I believe all the Commanders are on VDL chassis indeed, but they are fitted with a Cummins engine, not a DAF one, like noted at 4:04. DAF engines can be found on the VDL double deck buses and of course the SB220. Here in the Netherlands we have a large fleet of counterparts for the Commander, which is integrally built by VDL and called Ambassador, all Cummins/Voith fitted.
We only got 1 Voith here in Dublin. Its an 2004 AV398. Its sounds so nice and most of the time its got its fans on really loud. Also revs strongly when stopped.
Hey guys, I think it is because of the setting of the gearboxes which makes those Voiths reluctant to go down gears when going up a hill. In Hong Kong, most buses with Voith gearboxes revves higher than those in Europe. Just have a try on those in Hong Kong and you may have a different impression on them.
Once in Hong Kong there were four examples of the 2-axle MCW double-decker with the L10 + 864.3 propulsion drive. They were designed for steep slope climbing and they did that well.
What you mention as a ‘slight rev’ when the vehicle stops can be attributed to the engagement of “partial neutral at stop” which is comment on the Voith DIWA. All our buses at STO do it when the brake interlock engages (either due to opening a door, kneeling, ramp or simply the “brake hold” that engages after a few seconds). Oh and they are NovaBus LFS & LFSa models.
The Voith gearbox really doesn't like to change up with a VDL 3:30. In my area Arriva North east have them, but the Voith Box really struggles with this bus on a steep hill climb. I have been on one where the bus had picked up some speed, it approached a steep hill and the driver kept his foot planted in the floor and it really slowed down. The bus was so reluctant to change down a gear, when it changed down it picked up speed, then it was redlining, and a massive thump and it changed up :)
The rev-up (maybe neutral-on-stop) around 2:43 for the B7TL is typical of Dennis Tridents in Hong Kong and in Canada. And the Olympian at 5:23 ...... brings back memories of this type in Hong Kong in the late 1980s.
You should hear the Voiths on the Halton Dennis Myllenniums in Liverpool, for example, AJ58 PZK or DK04 JPJ. Check out the Marshall Capital on my channel if you really want to!
Some buses I much prefer a Voith for example a Volvo B7TL and a Trident have to be Voiith, but a Volvo B10M has to be a ZF. Yes some impressive screams from a Voith. All depends on the type of bus too.
The revving up when going into idle is probably a "neutral on stop" as suggested by ZF, in which the neutral gear is engaged automatically when the bus gets into a complete halt.
@britishtransport. Go on a Dennis Dart and you'll be able to hear a distinctive whine after the bus changes gear. The Allison box also likes to hold onto gears when the Dart's are going at slow speeds. Great gearbox on a great bus.
Have you seen my video on CX06EAW, just search the reg and it should come up. That video was filmed in 2007, I heard this one again over-revving last July, it had been sorted in the meantime, and is probably fixed again now.
@video47 I agree except for the B7TL bit, I love the Hoover like sound Lothian's first B7s made with the ZF gearbox, but I too think the Trident needs a Voith. So does the Dart and the Metrobus, but no Volvo should be without its ZF! As you say though it depends on if the bus is being used in a city like London or on country routes - Voith is good for flat places where quick accerlation isn't needed and ZF are good allrounder but very good for fast driving.
4:38 to 4:41 is pretty much what happened to me on a VDL. When I was on a VDL Pulsar there was an extreme thump and then it changed the gear. I felt sorry for the bus though. It was on a 09' reg and the driver gave it Kickdown on an extremely hot day. Poor Voith box, they don't like hills on the best of days, never mind when it's being thrashed around like mad on one of the hottest days of the year. That happened to me in the summer hols of 2011.
Some how thwe whine on the garder examples always seems to be better due to the different pitch of the engine and gearbox. Some other examples of voith gearbox buses are Mercedes O405 I've put one of my videos up and MAN 18.220 that usually reside with Stagecoach subsiduries. I do like them screming out when thrashed. Voith gearboxes do clunk more than ZF gearboxes anyday!
Boring is spot on. I don't need to read the spec as they are fitted to our Volvo B7Realyborings (my pet name). In fact boring from front to back, inside out, I imagine there will be an increase in accidents due to drivers falling asleep at it's tediousness. A far cry from our ols Strider bodied B10B's, also ZF but quick and melodic.
Don't worry my friend, one is being made, th last few weeks I have been gathering old footage and even yesterday I was filming for this video capturing a Dennis Dart unsure what gear to go into as it cornered therefore giving a classic clunk clunk clunk. I just need to find the best features, but have got a noisy Solo in Plymouth giving a nice squeel into second gear, all should be ready within about 4 weeks I hope.
CHECK THIS OUT! Two identical Dennis 10m double deckers in Hong Kong with identical propulsion drives, both running on the same strech of road with uphill. It turns out that their Voiths behave differently when starting up: Bus A: v=yN7BLzK_hXI Bus B: v=oUoPGOKtY0I (cue to 4:20) You can see that bus A revs up at first gear much more quickly than bus B when flooring off uphill. Bus A seems to have a bigger first gear ratio, probably 863.2, than Bus B with the more generic 863.1. Agree?
Those old Travel West Midlands Metrobuses ALWAYS did that clunk gear change, it was quite bad actually lol. It gave the bus character but it sounded quite poorly to be honest, i'm sure the gearboxes didn't do that when the bus was new lol.
Now I understand why some of the much more recent buses I've travelled on in England and in Sydney (oz) reminded me of LT Metrobuses - it was the Voith of the Patht! (sorry) But seriously, I can still hear the noise of the retarder on a 6LXB Metrobus in my head, decades after the last time I rode on one. Likewise I can still hear Nationals, REs (both Gardner and 0.680), VRs, LHs, 0.600 and 0.680 Leopards, Atlanteans, M-B O305s... Yes, I know need help.
No mate, the last Commander is infact badged as DAF, It was one of Arriva Midlands in Telford, They are the same, but exist with the DAF badge before it became VDL (only just)
cjflash 99 Quite a lot of trains like the 170s as well as some of the older trains like the 142s and the 150s have voith gearboxes. I know that the Class 172 is different as it uses a ZF gearbox instead.
@bearchoirfan :( KMB has to retire all non-air con buses by 2012 :( I will miss them much especially non-ac Dennis Dragons (Cummins LT10 and the few remaining Gardener Leyland olympains). Will truly miss the 1997 3ADs and 1997/2000 ATS/ATRs :(, Majority of fleet will be scrapped by 2020.
Sadly now the software and Ecus are programmed for economy and makes them terrible changing up a gear only to realise it doesn’t have enough power so changes down again (especially if the vehicle is underpowered to start with.
Because ZF transmissions are unmatched in performance. =) Check out the technical data for the new ZF Ecolife transmission, and you will see. Boring gearboxes, though, because they are virtually silent. =P
Nothing compared to the racked off Mercedes 0405s with ZF's; any other bus with transmission like these I'd have deemed as worn out. How the passengers, sorry, Customers (ugh) can stand them is beyond me.
And if you want to hear an entirely different but nonetheless musical retarder try the one on a Mercedes-Benz O305 with the MB 3-speed auto + torque converter box. It sings... /watch?v=xN9Tb0EqJ2s
The C49HNF is really from Hong Kong: I can recognize the sound sense. Anyway, programs can be cleverly manipulated to allow Voiths to rev less between gearshifts, on even to allow a driver-operated switch to perform overrevving should the driver wish to.
GREAT! You may rarely know that even Voiths could perform a lot of kick-downs. This one is something: v=JJYNZitBSzs It does get into second gear when going uphill, but this gear is certainly not enough for a 45-feet double decker, with air-conditioning, in the video. Thus plenty of kickdowns! Enjoy.
I LOVE VOITH!
I believe all the Commanders are on VDL chassis indeed, but they are fitted with a Cummins engine, not a DAF one, like noted at 4:04. DAF engines can be found on the VDL double deck buses and of course the SB220. Here in the Netherlands we have a large fleet of counterparts for the Commander, which is integrally built by VDL and called Ambassador, all Cummins/Voith fitted.
We only got 1 Voith here in Dublin. Its an 2004 AV398. Its sounds so nice and most of the time its got its fans on really loud. Also revs strongly when stopped.
i just love the way a Voith transmission sounds... especially the D863 / D864. Thanks for the upload
the volvos are amazing
You cant beat the Voith Orchestra in full swing !!
Of these I recommend the Volvo B7TL but must have a Voith, but VR's Olympians and Nationals, they are all built well and give off a nice roar.
@zfkmb - i second that. ZFs and Voith have nice sounding personality...unlike an allison
Hey guys,
I think it is because of the setting of the gearboxes which makes those Voiths reluctant to go down gears when going up a hill.
In Hong Kong, most buses with Voith gearboxes revves higher than those in Europe. Just have a try on those in Hong Kong and you may have a different impression on them.
Once in Hong Kong there were four examples of the 2-axle MCW double-decker with the L10 + 864.3 propulsion drive. They were designed for steep slope climbing and they did that well.
The sound i hear almost every day, with the busses in Holland. Great vid 5*
I like the VDL pulsar
commanders are THE best screamers! First gear on these tend to be over revved and it really sound good
Nothing like a bit of Voith! Especially in an Ailsa, Olympian or Super Pointer Dart!
What you mention as a ‘slight rev’ when the vehicle stops can be attributed to the engagement of “partial neutral at stop” which is comment on the Voith DIWA. All our buses at STO do it when the brake interlock engages (either due to opening a door, kneeling, ramp or simply the “brake hold” that engages after a few seconds). Oh and they are NovaBus LFS & LFSa models.
So nice to hear an older Voith box. Especially on a Gardner engine. But I think the new Voith Box's are much easier to recognise.
The Voith gearbox really doesn't like to change up with a VDL 3:30. In my area Arriva North east have them, but the Voith Box really struggles with this bus on a steep hill climb. I have been on one where the bus had picked up some speed, it approached a steep hill and the driver kept his foot planted in the floor and it really slowed down. The bus was so reluctant to change down a gear, when it changed down it picked up speed, then it was redlining, and a massive thump and it changed up :)
The rev-up (maybe neutral-on-stop) around 2:43 for the B7TL is typical of Dennis Tridents in Hong Kong and in Canada.
And the Olympian at 5:23 ...... brings back memories of this type in Hong Kong in the late 1980s.
You should hear the Voiths on the Halton Dennis Myllenniums in Liverpool, for example, AJ58 PZK or DK04 JPJ. Check out the Marshall Capital on my channel if you really want to!
Some buses I much prefer a Voith for example a Volvo B7TL and a Trident have to be Voiith, but a Volvo B10M has to be a ZF. Yes some impressive screams from a Voith. All depends on the type of bus too.
The revving up when going into idle is probably a "neutral on stop" as suggested by ZF, in which the neutral gear is engaged automatically when the bus gets into a complete halt.
this is the best video it make me want to go on a bus to hear this i used to love the sounds it the best video on youtube
@britishtransport. Go on a Dennis Dart and you'll be able to hear a distinctive whine after the bus changes gear. The Allison box also likes to hold onto gears when the Dart's are going at slow speeds. Great gearbox on a great bus.
Have you seen my video on CX06EAW, just search the reg and it should come up. That video was filmed in 2007, I heard this one again over-revving last July, it had been sorted in the meantime, and is probably fixed again now.
I remember now, we in fact have Volvo B10M's with Voiths here, they are nice.
The VDL Pulsar on the hill was about a week old, so yes I think it is a characteristic of the box.
I have a video on C49HNF an Olympian, not sure if this came from Hong Kong on Kenya, but if you do a search for the reg you can hear it.
them b7tls are my favorite modern vehicle. they sound sweet especialy when you rev them quite high
simon the 2nd commander is a vdl aswel as the pulsar. sb200 is the commander and sb120 is the pulsar
@video47 I agree except for the B7TL bit, I love the Hoover like sound Lothian's first B7s made with the ZF gearbox, but I too think the Trident needs a Voith. So does the Dart and the Metrobus, but no Volvo should be without its ZF! As you say though it depends on if the bus is being used in a city like London or on country routes - Voith is good for flat places where quick accerlation isn't needed and ZF are good allrounder but very good for fast driving.
Thanks, and your video response is going right on the approvals! I favourited it a long time ago, the best Falcon video on youtube I think!
4:38 to 4:41 is pretty much what happened to me on a VDL. When I was on a VDL Pulsar there was an extreme thump and then it changed the gear. I felt sorry for the bus though. It was on a 09' reg and the driver gave it Kickdown on an extremely hot day. Poor Voith box, they don't like hills on the best of days, never mind when it's being thrashed around like mad on one of the hottest days of the year. That happened to me in the summer hols of 2011.
i love that new VDL pulsar that engine is just amazing wen it revving high
Some how thwe whine on the garder examples always seems to be better due to the different pitch of the engine and gearbox. Some other examples of voith gearbox buses are Mercedes O405 I've put one of my videos up and MAN 18.220 that usually reside with Stagecoach subsiduries. I do like them screming out when thrashed. Voith gearboxes do clunk more than ZF gearboxes anyday!
Boring is spot on. I don't need to read the spec as they are fitted to our Volvo B7Realyborings (my pet name). In fact boring from front to back, inside out, I imagine there will be an increase in accidents due to drivers falling asleep at it's tediousness. A far cry from our ols Strider bodied B10B's, also ZF but quick and melodic.
Don't worry my friend, one is being made, th last few weeks I have been gathering old footage and even yesterday I was filming for this video capturing a Dennis Dart unsure what gear to go into as it cornered therefore giving a classic clunk clunk clunk. I just need to find the best features, but have got a noisy Solo in Plymouth giving a nice squeel into second gear, all should be ready within about 4 weeks I hope.
Voith gearboxes... Great, until you want to reverse!
I think they forget that buses have to go backwards sometimes...
i loved the voith gearbox it was perfect when adjusted right and i was the best st it
CHECK THIS OUT! Two identical Dennis 10m double deckers in Hong Kong with identical propulsion drives, both running on the same strech of road with uphill. It turns out that their Voiths behave differently when starting up:
Bus A: v=yN7BLzK_hXI
Bus B: v=oUoPGOKtY0I (cue to 4:20)
You can see that bus A revs up at first gear much more quickly than bus B when flooring off uphill. Bus A seems to have a bigger first gear ratio, probably 863.2, than Bus B with the more generic 863.1. Agree?
AAAhhhh! Nice! Thanks for that. Have you got anymore vid explain whats what please?
Some great sounds there! Can't beat a good falcon!
Those old Travel West Midlands Metrobuses ALWAYS did that clunk gear change, it was quite bad actually lol. It gave the bus character but it sounded quite poorly to be honest, i'm sure the gearboxes didn't do that when the bus was new lol.
Now I understand why some of the much more recent buses I've travelled on in England and in Sydney (oz) reminded me of LT Metrobuses - it was the Voith of the Patht! (sorry)
But seriously, I can still hear the noise of the retarder on a 6LXB Metrobus in my head, decades after the last time I rode on one. Likewise I can still hear Nationals, REs (both Gardner and 0.680), VRs, LHs, 0.600 and 0.680 Leopards, Atlanteans, M-B O305s... Yes, I know need help.
Excellent!
No mate, the last Commander is infact badged as DAF, It was one of Arriva Midlands in Telford, They are the same, but exist with the DAF badge before it became VDL (only just)
They have ZF gearboxes in general, I have a video here of the ZF gearbox too!
Yes, all the ones I have heard have a Voith I think, could have included one on here too.
Probably be the 5 speed ZF, More gears = less stress on the engine.
WMPTE had 6 , branded as Citybuses but single deck. 4 speed and good for 70mph in the right hands
Voths can giove off good thrash, rare in a ZF HP series and not so on the ZF Ecolife where's the whinme in that gearbox???
the class 170 turbostar train has a voith somthing?
cjflash 99 Quite a lot of trains like the 170s as well as some of the older trains like the 142s and the 150s have voith gearboxes. I know that the Class 172 is different as it uses a ZF gearbox instead.
I know the 158s have 2 speed Voiths, haha
awesome
them dennis flacon's sounded good with a 6lxct and voith
when i rode buses in the late 70s we had 2 speed allison trans in north america, don't try drinking anything on one of those
i should have lent you my clip of a voith on a dennis trident 3.They really sound heavenly
Can anyone tell me what dennis falcon this one is if so I would like a ride on this if so what peresavation place has one.
Thanks.
One of the K-UHAs (K214/218/219UHA) with East Lancs E-type bodies sadly withdrawn from service with Arriva Midlands in February 2009
not alot beats the sound of a gardner/voith in a metrobus - and I will be driving some very soon!
Is the DAF Commander at 04:06 an Arriva bus?
Do You remember what Daimler Fleet lines used to sound like and AEC Regents
The legacy of the quality buses live on :-) I realised that they were all fast being withdrawn so had to go and get them on video.
Can you give me the link to the video with the first Metrobus,please?
Type in POG530Y
To be honest, they sound just like the VDL Commander in this video!
Awesome video!
A bus fitted with voith gear box, the engine sound is much more powerful and better rather than ZF
@bearchoirfan :( KMB has to retire all non-air con buses by 2012 :( I will miss them much especially non-ac Dennis Dragons (Cummins LT10 and the few remaining Gardener Leyland olympains).
Will truly miss the 1997 3ADs and 1997/2000 ATS/ATRs :(, Majority of fleet will be scrapped by 2020.
come singapore,take the mark 3 and first few mark 4s,sound really mind-blowing
By the lack of gearbox noise ofcourse lol
what is more economical better a 3 speed voith gearbox or ZF 5 speed gearbox anybody know?
My video on MTU123Y gives off probably the best whine out of all the recordings I have of Gardner Olympians.
2:10 to 2:21 i love that type two is cool.
Sadly now the software and Ecus are programmed for economy and makes them terrible changing up a gear only to realise it doesn’t have enough power so changes down again (especially if the vehicle is underpowered to start with.
what about ALX400 voith
Any dennis falcons in presvation
Because ZF transmissions are unmatched in performance. =) Check out the technical data for the new ZF Ecolife transmission, and you will see. Boring gearboxes, though, because they are virtually silent. =P
B10M with Voith? Never seen one...
Sorry no Tridents here, however type WA05CRU in the search box and you will find it.
Nothing compared to the racked off Mercedes 0405s with ZF's; any other bus with transmission like these I'd have deemed as worn out. How the passengers, sorry, Customers (ugh) can stand them is beyond me.
Longer clip if you search B115MSO
And if you want to hear an entirely different but nonetheless musical retarder try the one on a Mercedes-Benz O305 with the MB 3-speed auto + torque converter box. It sings...
/watch?v=xN9Tb0EqJ2s
yes
Thaaash!
The C49HNF is really from Hong Kong: I can recognize the sound sense. Anyway, programs can be cleverly manipulated to allow Voiths to rev less between gearshifts, on even to allow a driver-operated switch to perform overrevving should the driver wish to.
Where is this?
Now unfortunately no longer in production :(
What isn't?
Voith D851
No tridents :(
GREAT! You may rarely know that even Voiths could perform a lot of kick-downs. This one is something: v=JJYNZitBSzs
It does get into second gear when going uphill, but this gear is certainly not enough for a 45-feet double decker, with air-conditioning, in the video. Thus plenty of kickdowns! Enjoy.
true
Look at this one, a MAN: v=jHd_Ty6nSO8
The 2nd to 3rd shift is rather fast like the HP-0 series.
at 3:50 there is a nice one
Retro buses
The modern day equivalents are harder to tell apart especially Enviro 400 MRCs
hmm,from my view,B10Ms sound better with voith...
The alx400 is voith after all
Many are, but generally First specify ZF.
yep especially the London ones VLA
ALX400 is a bus body, not a bus chassis!
What beast the O405 are I've gfot some on my youtube better than any vovlo ZF crap that festers in their fellet especially the B9TL Truckbuses!
arse
WMPTE had 6 , branded as Citybuses but single deck. 4 speed and good for 70mph in the right hands